Red..
1) is one of the worst colors for card advantage.
2) is one of the worst colors for creature quality.
3) has the smallest number of "broken" cards.
4) has the smallest slice of the color pie.
Wotc has recently expanded Red's pie slightly with looting-type effects and the new Goblin Diplomats (which will see little if any play), but I want to pose the question: what about ramp?
1) Ramp makes sense flavorwise; Red has a history of mana generating spells. Most are one-shots, but manyarenot, and it's easy to imagine a red creature generating mana.
2) Giving red ramp gives red mages more deckbuilding options. At the moment, expensive red cards basically never see play.
3) Currently, decks who want ramp spells must play green or (mostly) bad artifacts. Giving red some ramp spells increases deckbuilding options.
4) Red is the weakest color with the smallest piece of the color pie. It deserves something!
Sample Cards:
Angry Dwarf :1mana::symr:
Creature - Dwarf [U]
At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add to your mana pool.
Angry Dwarf must attack each turn if able.
2/1
Fire Sculptor :2mana::symr:
Creature - Human Wizard [u]
:symtap:: Add to your mana pool.
:symtap:: Fire Sculptor deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
1/1
Summoned Slab :2mana::symr::symr:
Sorcery [C]
Summoned Slab deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Search your library for a Mountain card and put it into play. Then shuffle your library.
Note: I am not saying Red's ramp should be as good as greens, only that it should get some.
Goblin Diplomats is a very, very goblin-flavored card. See, it's a diplomat, it handles relations with different states, but it's a goblin, so he's terrible at it and just randomly kills things. Goblins are very red, and this card is a very flavorful goblin.
Red is for quick, efficient creatures, and short-sighted destruction. Also Dragons, but they historically suck.
There are very powerful red spells, but none that are toobroken.
Look at lightning bolt, goblin guide, shock, pillar, chain lightning, etc.
There is no other color that can kill you with just instants and sorceries that deal damage. No other color has kill a creature/damage lethal on a card.
Red is very good, and with green it gets better, so giving it ramp is kind of, well, pointless, and actually hurts red's color identity. Red's it's own thing, it's not supposed to be a ****ty blue.
There is no other color that can kill you with just instants and sorceries that deal damage. No other color has kill a creature/damage lethal on a card.
Colors splash, so black has a couple of cards that deal X, usually based on swamps.
See, I think Red could kind of be the same way with ramp. I don't think searching out lands is right but I think Red could definitely be the home for Eladamri's Vineyard-type cards, for instance.
The problem is that Red while for every Standard environment needs some good Burn effects. It doesn't really need them in the long turn. I mean - they ain't gonna print a better Burn spell than Lightning Bolt. This would be madness... But they could optimize Red's other effects so that it doesn't really on it's redundancy alone. And that it isn't the color that only has cheap creatures + cheap direct damage...
agreed, but what effects?
Rituals:
given that they keep banning them in modern, i highly doubt it
Looting
perhaps, but there is pretty limited design space here. and there aren't any really competitive ones
Creatures
reds creatures kind of suck. They have some strong ones in hellrider, hero of bladehold, thundermaw hellkite etc, but realistically, they are as bad in mono-color creatures as blue. this is a good place to expand, but we already have a creature-centric meta in standard, and modern is heading in the same direction.
chaos effects
definitely red's color pie, but we don't need to see more of this crap, and we are trying to look for competitive options
So it just brings us back to burn. Or add something new to reds part of the color pie
Dark-Ritual type ramp is getting banned in Modern, so its unlikely we'll see more of it in the near future. Besides, this kind of ramp is basically only good in Storm.
Wizards doesn't like powerful chaos-type effects because competitive players get pissed when games get decided by coin flips.
There hasn't been a good land destruction spell in ages, because land destruction isn't fun for the other player. With that being said, the best land destruction spell in Standard is Acidic Slime, a green card.
One only has to glance at the Eternal formats and Commander to see that red is underpowered. It's not debatable.
Dark-Ritual type ramp is getting banned in Modern, so its unlikely we'll see more of it in the near future. Besides, this kind of ramp is basically only good in Storm.
Wizards doesn't like powerful chaos-type effects because competitive players get pissed when games get decided by coin flips.
There hasn't been a good land destruction spell in ages, because land destruction isn't fun for the other player. With that being said, the best land destruction spell in Standard is Acidic Slime, a green card.
One only has to glance at the Eternal formats and Commander to see that red is underpowered. It's not debatable.
Mono-Red Goblins and Burn are both tier 1.5 decks in legacy.
Red isn't supposed to have powerful effects, red is supposed to be 'i kill everything!'
Mono-Red Goblins and Burn are both tier 1.5 decks in legacy.
Red isn't supposed to have powerful effects, red is supposed to be 'i kill everything!'
If red got mana ramp, who would play green?
I don't think they should give red ramp, but you certainly could do it without cutting out green. Make red's ramp dorks painland-ish, or just make them cost more.
Would this really be terrible to have: Red Ramp Dork1R
Creature - Goblin Shaman
Add R to your mana pool. Red Ramp Dork deals 1 damage to you.
1/1
Or something like Rain of Filth or Squandered Resources. Both are black, (and pretty old), but you could argue sacrificing lands for instant mana is part of red's chaotic, all-in approach. Although these are more rituals than permanent ramp.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Red kinda have ramp..... but it needs to be more explosive and not durable effects....
stuff like Rite of Flame and Seething Song they always ban in modern are very red....
or cards like Orcish Lumberjack which I think is VERY red.... this is red ramp... lol.
Like black can do anything if it hurt itself enough to do, Red can also do anything if it's careless enough....
Problem is..... Random/punisher is essentially bad.... and explosiveness is often too good....
that's why nobody uses the random effects and Wizards bans Seething Song lol!
1) is one of the worst colors for card advantage.
2) is one of the worst colors for creature quality.
3) has the smallest number of "broken" cards.
4) has the smallest slice of the color pie.
Wotc has recently expanded Red's pie slightly with looting-type effects and the new Goblin Diplomats (which will see little if any play), but I want to pose the question: what about ramp?
1) Ramp makes sense flavorwise; Red has a history of mana generating spells. Most are one-shots, but many are not, and it's easy to imagine a red creature generating mana.
2) Giving red ramp gives red mages more deckbuilding options. At the moment, expensive red cards basically never see play.
3) Currently, decks who want ramp spells must play green or (mostly) bad artifacts. Giving red some ramp spells increases deckbuilding options.
4) Red is the weakest color with the smallest piece of the color pie. It deserves something!
Sample Cards:
Angry Dwarf :1mana::symr:
Creature - Dwarf [U]
At the beginning of your precombat main phase, add to your mana pool.
Angry Dwarf must attack each turn if able.
2/1
Fire Sculptor :2mana::symr:
Creature - Human Wizard [u]
:symtap:: Add to your mana pool.
:symtap:: Fire Sculptor deals 1 damage to target creature or player.
1/1
Summoned Slab :2mana::symr::symr:
Sorcery [C]
Summoned Slab deals 3 damage to target creature or player. Search your library for a Mountain card and put it into play. Then shuffle your library.
Note: I am not saying Red's ramp should be as good as greens, only that it should get some.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
2) goblin guide imperial recruiter hellrider boros reckoner Falkenrath Aristocrat goblin recruiter ... Need I go on?
3) has the smallest number of "broken" cards. [this is bad why?]
4) 1/5 = 1/5 = 1/5 = 1/5 = 1/5
This is simply unsubstantiated crying. Congratulations, I'd like to introduce you to Patrick Sullivan, and Cedric Phillips. Oh, and lightning bolt
Oh, and here http://magiccards.info/dgm/en/120.html one of your offered red upgrades, but better. Weird, it's like wizards ignores red.
Rules Advisor: 9/5/11
Old, sparsely updated because of above: Trade with me!
Weirdly, standard has been BAD since JTMS was banned, it hasn't been fun, nor healthy since.
I don't always post about Rafiq of the Many, but when I do, I cardlink to the original artwork, and not the supplementary product version.
"I trust myself to do my duty, even unto death. It's what comes after that I'm afraid of."
"Just fight without fear. Your soul is protected by the hand of Avacyn and will never submit to evil."
I would be happy to see more decent ritual effects in red, but ramp I am happy to leave to green.
Goblin Diplomats is a very, very goblin-flavored card. See, it's a diplomat, it handles relations with different states, but it's a goblin, so he's terrible at it and just randomly kills things. Goblins are very red, and this card is a very flavorful goblin.
Red is for quick, efficient creatures, and short-sighted destruction. Also Dragons, but they historically suck.
There are very powerful red spells, but none that are toobroken.
Look at lightning bolt, goblin guide, shock, pillar, chain lightning, etc.
There is no other color that can kill you with just instants and sorceries that deal damage. No other color has kill a creature/damage lethal on a card.
Red is very good, and with green it gets better, so giving it ramp is kind of, well, pointless, and actually hurts red's color identity. Red's it's own thing, it's not supposed to be a ****ty blue.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Corrupt, Drain Life, Consume Spirit?
Colors splash, so black has a couple of cards that deal X, usually based on swamps.
give red more/better burn effects and maybe some cards outside of classic RDW archetypes
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
See, I think Red could kind of be the same way with ramp. I don't think searching out lands is right but I think Red could definitely be the home for Eladamri's Vineyard-type cards, for instance.
agreed, but what effects?
Rituals:
given that they keep banning them in modern, i highly doubt it
Looting
perhaps, but there is pretty limited design space here. and there aren't any really competitive ones
Creatures
reds creatures kind of suck. They have some strong ones in hellrider, hero of bladehold, thundermaw hellkite etc, but realistically, they are as bad in mono-color creatures as blue. this is a good place to expand, but we already have a creature-centric meta in standard, and modern is heading in the same direction.
chaos effects
definitely red's color pie, but we don't need to see more of this crap, and we are trying to look for competitive options
So it just brings us back to burn. Or add something new to reds part of the color pie
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Sac Burn -> Infernal Plunge -> Seething Song -> Seething Song -> Burn Spell
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Wizards doesn't like powerful chaos-type effects because competitive players get pissed when games get decided by coin flips.
There hasn't been a good land destruction spell in ages, because land destruction isn't fun for the other player. With that being said, the best land destruction spell in Standard is Acidic Slime, a green card.
One only has to glance at the Eternal formats and Commander to see that red is underpowered. It's not debatable.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
They are fast, one time ramp to get out an early threat, which makes perfect sense for red.
Red is characterized as being fast and chaotic, non-ritual syle ramp can be a "once in a while" thing, but doesn't fit the flavor too well.
In short things are fine as is.
Mono-Red Goblins and Burn are both tier 1.5 decks in legacy.
Red isn't supposed to have powerful effects, red is supposed to be 'i kill everything!'
If red got mana ramp, who would play green?
I don't think they should give red ramp, but you certainly could do it without cutting out green. Make red's ramp dorks painland-ish, or just make them cost more.
Would this really be terrible to have:
Red Ramp Dork 1R
Creature - Goblin Shaman
Add R to your mana pool. Red Ramp Dork deals 1 damage to you.
1/1
Or something like Rain of Filth or Squandered Resources. Both are black, (and pretty old), but you could argue sacrificing lands for instant mana is part of red's chaotic, all-in approach. Although these are more rituals than permanent ramp.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Didn't they just print infernal plunge?
And yet they keep printing them. Guild Feud, and probability storm come to mind.
Red has some of the most powerful effects!
Chaos effects are powerful.
stuff like Rite of Flame and Seething Song they always ban in modern are very red....
or cards like Orcish Lumberjack which I think is VERY red.... this is red ramp... lol.
Like black can do anything if it hurt itself enough to do, Red can also do anything if it's careless enough....
You can see that in Final Fortune, Burning Inquiry, Gamble, Browbeat, Book Burning are all examples of stuff clearly outside of the red slice of the color pie that red can do by being careless.
Problem is..... Random/punisher is essentially bad.... and explosiveness is often too good....
that's why nobody uses the random effects and Wizards bans Seething Song lol!
red is a difficult color to design and balance.
Therefore giving it ramp is very dangerous
Creature based ramp on creature that must attack is very cool and very red, I like the idea