There many people who play and defend D3 as well. There's 4 million people a month on D3, that's quite a decent number.
My point is, if there's a fair size part of the community who vehemently dislikes a change, the change is bad. The mere fact that we 're discussing this after so many days proves how bad the change was. A product that doesn't have 95% good reception is just bad and i'm pretty sure more then 5% of the player base dislike the new slivers.
Although I also dislike the new Slivers and am very upset with their new direction, this line of thought is wrong.
Players, in general, don't like change. Ever. There was a huge number of people outraged when they changed the frame design, a huge number of people outraged at dual-faced cards, a huge number of people outraged at planeswalkers as cards, a huge number that were outraged when creature damage no longer used the stack, etc. There's no shortage of changes that have happened over the years that have outraged a large number of players and not all of them were bad because some people didn't like them.
Slivers were always my favourite creature and I would be the guy making Sliver decks when I knew they were awful but I just liked them so much I had to try. I was the guy who was overjoyed when I was able to put 8 muscle slivers in my deck when they printed sinew sliver in planar chaos. I hate the new direction but I'm willing to give it time and I know it won't make a huge difference in the long run. If it fails as much as I think it will, we'll hopefully see the old sliver design back next time they decide to bring them back.
what id like to know is if they go this huge different direction will they commit to a mana ramp sliver (i.e gemhide like) to cover those huge mana costs. id hate to hard cast 6 mana just to use that might plus one " sliver". if not id only use them in my casual deck,( ill be bringing alot of acetone and paint home from the craft shop) i guess well see in the coming weeks.
You mean, just like ALL THE OLD LORDS?! What a shocker. The tribe-o-lords gets a new iteration, and *gasp* try got updated EXACTLY THE SAME WAY other lords did!
Other tribes have been getting new lords, enough to where it is possible to run most/all lords. They took away the one thing left that made Slivers mechanically unique and people are upset? Shocking!
"A rich man thinks all other people are rich, and an intelligent man thinks all other people are similarly gifted. Both are always terribly shocked when they discover the truth of the world. You, my dear brother, are a pious man." - Strahd von Zarovich
You mean, just like ALL THE OLD LORDS?! What a shocker. The tribe-o-lords gets a new iteration, and *gasp* try got updated EXACTLY THE SAME WAY other lords did! Heart attacks and nerd rage everywhere. Seriously. The ONLY leg complainers have on this is the art, and that is blatantly subjective anyway.
I suppose they should make new Atogs to that pumps all Atogs instead of just themselves. I mean all the other Lords do so why make something different? Right and lets change their look from bug eye tooth things to fluffy ewok looking bear, but still call them atogs...
The new artifact sliver confuses me. The central hive has a name. Who The hell was there to name it? Sliverstopher Colombus? And the hive is litered with pieces of broken metal, a warning for artificers to stay away. So who build this metal sliver?
Aaargh...
I do like hive stirrings, gotta be honest here.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
The new artifact sliver confuses me. The central hive has a name. Who The hell was there to name it? Sliverstopher Colombus? And the hive is litered with pieces of broken metal, a warning for artificers to stay away. So who build this metal sliver?
Aaargh...
I do like hive stirrings, gotta be honest here.
In the past there were those who built artificial slivers that were used to influence or observe the sliver hive. Just look up artifact slivers and you can read their flavor text.
As for the Hive Stirrings card, I like it as well and what is interesting is that from what I can tell, it appears that the slivers in the picture have one hook arm and a beak shaped head. So this is getting a touch interesting.
In the past there were those who built artificial slivers that were used to influence or observe the sliver hive. Just look up artifact slivers and you can read their flavor text.
As for the Hive Stirrings card, I like it as well and what is interesting is that from what I can tell, it appears that the slivers in the picture have one hook arm and a beak shaped head. So this is getting a touch interesting.
Volrath allready had influence over the hive, by use of the queen. Venser's sliver was excepted in the hive, and Venser lost control. This new makes no Sense.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Volrath allready had influence over the hive, by use of the queen. Venser's sliver was excepted in the hive, and Venser lost control. This new makes no Sense.
Read the flavor text for the cards. Venser was observing his creation even after it entered the hive meaning he could watch the hive as well, he never tried to control the slivers as far as I know. And for the sliver made by Volrath, it says right in its flavor text that it helped further his control of the hive.
Okay, so with the recent rush of spoilers, it is getting rather close to "all but confirmed" that these Slivers are only in RGW. Now it's MY turn to complain.
Seriously R&D? Changing the mechanic from "all" to "you control" was a good choice. Changing the look the way you did was questionable, but defensible. But if my fears are correct, you have eliminated one of the mechanical hearts of the Slivers, and that is their five-coloredness. If we don't start seeing some Blue and Black neo-Slivers, I will be joining the ranks of those who are vastly disappointed with some of the choices made with the Slivers this time around.
Yes, I understand the reasoning behind making them only in those colors (set complexity, better drafting environment, space, limiting the colors of the returning Core Set mechanic, etc), but those are all rules that could be bent, SHOULD be bent, if it means keeping one of the mechanical hearts of the Slivers intact. The moment you thought "maybe we cannot have the Slivers in more than three colors", you should have made the decision either to bend the rules for their return, or to keep them out of the set entirely. This is the one thing done with the neo-Slivers thus far that I find indefensible.
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Someday, I will own all of the dragons. All of them. 43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
Read the flavor text for the cards. Venser was observing his creation even after it entered the hive meaning he could watch the hive as well, he never tried to control the slivers as far as I know. And for the sliver made by Volrath, it says right in its flavor text that it helped further his control of the hive.
Volrath's sliver weren't inlfuecing the hive in any notable way. This was pointed out when Hanna destroyed The artificial ones and quickly desided against it.
Venser lost control of his prototype, but could still observe it. He most likely didn't do this from within the hive itself. That would kill you.
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Thanks to SpiderBoy4 @ High-Light Studio's for the awesome banner
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Okay, so with the recent rush of spoilers, it is getting rather close to "all but confirmed" that these Slivers are only in RGW.
Now, now, we've only got 74/249 cards spoiled and almost none of them are blue and black. If the Slivers are five colored, that means six cards left to be spoiled, seven if we get a Queen/Overlord/Legion type of card.
That being said, if the Slivers are in fact RGW only, that's a deal breaker for me. Mechanic, appearance, AND color spread; at this point the only Sliver-like qualitiy these things have left is the one thing Wizards should have changed: the creature type. I've been looking for a reason not to buy any more cards until Theros and I think I just found it.
Volrath's sliver weren't inlfuecing the hive in any notable way. This was pointed out when Hanna destroyed The artificial ones and quickly desided against it.
Venser lost control of his prototype, but could still observe it. He most likely didn't do this from within the hive itself. That would kill you.
Metallic sliver flavor quote: "When the clever counterfeit was accepted by the hive, Volrath's influence upon the slivers grew even stronger."
This contradicts what you have said, and as for Hanna's quote, it said that when they destroyed the artificial slivers it did not stop the real ones from trying to kill them.
On the note of Venser, this is what I was trying to say. Since he knew that the Sliver was hunting along side the hive he probably had a way of observing where and what it was doing.
Metallic sliver flavor quote: "When the clever counterfeit was accepted by the hive, Volrath's influence upon the slivers grew even stronger."
This contradicts what you have said, and as for Hanna's quote, it said that when they destroyed the artificial slivers it did not stop the real ones from trying to kill them.
On the note of Venser, this is what I was trying to say. Since he knew that the Sliver was hunting along side the hive he probably had a way of observing where and what it was doing.
The book clearly states that the crew went for the artificial slivers first. Thinking they controlled the swarm. Hanna quickly realized this wasn't the case. Books trump flavortexts.
Whatever the story is behind the new visual style of the Slivers, I don't dig it. To each their own though.
That aside, I'm really hoping they make these slivers cool. It just seems like ever since Affinity, Wizards has been really scared to print any decent new archetype or tribe within a set. I understand they don't wanna print something stupid, that will just degenerate the game and take over the format. But it'd be cool if we could even get something on like a "Kithkin" level. Where it's strong, it shows up in tournies, there's a few different and viable ways you can play it, but it's not so stupid strong that it just takes the fun out of the game and you hate to see it.
I'd LOVE to Slivers at that level. Wizards been printing these interesting seeming mechanics and tribes like Metalcraft, Werewolves, and Vampires and the like that (from a Standard perspective) just never seem to get quite enough cool cards to make them anything more than a higher end casual deck. Here's to hoping for a few more cheap Slivers with cool effects!
-Yeah lets **** with the slivers' flavour
-Really?
-Yes
-But . What about the slivers' fans?
-Lets make some really powerfull new slivers some of then that will make slivers decks in others formats become more and more powerfull lets make some of then really dumb broken
-ok
...
I am actually looking forward to the new slivers to some extent. The ability for the ONLY YOU CONTROL issue is a interesting take. Kinda makes slivers a easier game in Mirror games (it comes down to the who is the the bigger army.)
The flavor-wise argument. I am Vorthos and my understanding Volrath captured species from other planes and threw then into Rath and genetically modified them slivers were in this as well. If these "Humanoid" slivers are the slivers from whatever plane that they came from possibly the plane that Theros is from, I would be okay with that as long as the story somewhere reference to Volrath stealing from them. Hey we might even get more Volrath toys even though he is dead.
OR the less liked opinion i might be able to deal with is that these new slivers in the next step in the world of things. BUT that would mean the overlord lied "the end of evolution" as of right now Timespiral slivers might ruin that argument due to that is in on Dominaria and of a time - alternate timeline where they were still before the slivers. ENTERS IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCIFI REFERENCE where this makes sense.
Ahh Vorthos can only hope.
IF creative story writing team doesn't explain where the hell these are from I am mad.
IF M14 is the only set that will have slivers in them I am also going to be made because then this is just a cruel test.
so it sames teh main issue is the fact that slivers does not effect all slivers but instead only your own. Sure it may seem bad but alas at teh same time, it does help sliver players in mirror games. I however don't care. I am pissed. i like slivers, i like that they effect every other sliver. what the hell is this crap about only slivers you control.
I suggested in the DOTP section of the mothership forums that DOTP 2014 should have DLC decks that were based on the Time Spiral block theme decks.
One of those decks was Sliver Evolution, along with a Fungus deck, Flanking deck, and a Suspend+Storm deck, and the Planar Chaos and Future Sight precons as well.
The colors for Sliver Evolution are Red, Green, and White. What colors are represented in the M14 slivers so far? Red, Green, and White?
Some mod, or someone working at WOTC probably read my post and went "ooooh that's a great idea, let's do Slivers for M14, and make them Red, Green, and White, because I seem to forget what colors they were in, and this guy says they were in Red, Green, and White", without knowing I was referring to the Silver Evolution theme deck from Time Spiral.
I suggested in the DOTP section of the mothership forums that DOTP 2014 should have DLC decks that were based on the Time Spiral block theme decks.
One of those decks was Sliver Evolution, along with a Fungus deck, Flanking deck, and a Suspend+Storm deck, and the Planar Chaos and Future Sight precons as well.
The colors for Sliver Evolution are Red, Green, and White. What colors are represented in the M14 slivers so far? Red, Green, and White?
Some mod, or someone working at WOTC probably read my post and went "ooooh that's a great idea, let's do Slivers for M14, and make them Red, Green, and White, because I seem to forget what colors they were in, and this guy says they were in Red, Green, and White", without knowing I was referring to the Silver Evolution theme deck from Time Spiral.
... Vampires and the like that (from a Standard perspective) just never seem to get quite enough cool cards to make them anything more than a higher end casual deck. Here's to hoping for a few more cheap Slivers with cool effects!
Vampires from Zendikar cycle became a highly annoying deck to beat several times in tournaments, and Merfolk could consistently destroy you on the 4th turn, not counting Goblins from the Onslaught-Mirrodin era.
i like that they effect every other sliver. what the hell is this crap about only slivers you control.
It's about taking away an annoying drawback that could backfire and make you lose games out of the blue, it's about not giving free benefits to your opponents with your own cards.
I am actually looking forward to the new slivers to some extent. The ability for the ONLY YOU CONTROL issue is a interesting take. Kinda makes slivers a easier game in Mirror games (it comes down to the who is the the bigger army.)
The flavor-wise argument. I am Vorthos and my understanding Volrath captured species from other planes and threw then into Rath and genetically modified them slivers were in this as well. If these "Humanoid" slivers are the slivers from whatever plane that they came from possibly the plane that Theros is from, I would be okay with that as long as the story somewhere reference to Volrath stealing from them. Hey we might even get more Volrath toys even though he is dead.
OR the less liked opinion i might be able to deal with is that these new slivers in the next step in the world of things. BUT that would mean the overlord lied "the end of evolution" as of right now Timespiral slivers might ruin that argument due to that is in on Dominaria and of a time - alternate timeline where they were still before the slivers. ENTERS IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCIFI REFERENCE where this makes sense.
Ahh Vorthos can only hope.
IF creative story writing team doesn't explain where the hell these are from I am mad.
IF M14 is the only set that will have slivers in them I am also going to be made because then this is just a cruel test.
Also if we decide to take the (mess) that is the (new) Time line we have that the events in Time Spiral happened about 7 103 years ago(4502 A.R----4605 AR) ( cause Venser died with about 125 years of a well spent life as a ageless entity) (cause Planeswalkers today gets old) and if we make the assumption that the old and the New time line are the same then we have that Sliver Overlord evolved to its "end of evolution" about 201 years ago( 4205 AR -- 4306 AR ) and that Volrath's Slivers lived on dominaria 400 years ago (4205 AR -- 4605 AR ) ....arrgg this timeline is a mess
Although I also dislike the new Slivers and am very upset with their new direction, this line of thought is wrong.
Players, in general, don't like change. Ever. There was a huge number of people outraged when they changed the frame design, a huge number of people outraged at dual-faced cards, a huge number of people outraged at planeswalkers as cards, a huge number that were outraged when creature damage no longer used the stack, etc. There's no shortage of changes that have happened over the years that have outraged a large number of players and not all of them were bad because some people didn't like them.
Slivers were always my favourite creature and I would be the guy making Sliver decks when I knew they were awful but I just liked them so much I had to try. I was the guy who was overjoyed when I was able to put 8 muscle slivers in my deck when they printed sinew sliver in planar chaos. I hate the new direction but I'm willing to give it time and I know it won't make a huge difference in the long run. If it fails as much as I think it will, we'll hopefully see the old sliver design back next time they decide to bring them back.
Or the community is just stupid.
You are also committing the foolish fallacy of stating your opinions as fact.
Other tribes have been getting new lords, enough to where it is possible to run most/all lords. They took away the one thing left that made Slivers mechanically unique and people are upset? Shocking!
the slivers should look like they used too; a french fry stabbed by a fork covered in a melted crayon.
stupid artists drawing legs and arms on my slivers. They should be fired!
I suppose they should make new Atogs to that pumps all Atogs instead of just themselves. I mean all the other Lords do so why make something different? Right and lets change their look from bug eye tooth things to fluffy ewok looking bear, but still call them atogs...
Aaargh...
I do like hive stirrings, gotta be honest here.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
In the past there were those who built artificial slivers that were used to influence or observe the sliver hive. Just look up artifact slivers and you can read their flavor text.
As for the Hive Stirrings card, I like it as well and what is interesting is that from what I can tell, it appears that the slivers in the picture have one hook arm and a beak shaped head. So this is getting a touch interesting.
Volrath allready had influence over the hive, by use of the queen. Venser's sliver was excepted in the hive, and Venser lost control. This new makes no Sense.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Read the flavor text for the cards. Venser was observing his creation even after it entered the hive meaning he could watch the hive as well, he never tried to control the slivers as far as I know. And for the sliver made by Volrath, it says right in its flavor text that it helped further his control of the hive.
Seriously R&D? Changing the mechanic from "all" to "you control" was a good choice. Changing the look the way you did was questionable, but defensible. But if my fears are correct, you have eliminated one of the mechanical hearts of the Slivers, and that is their five-coloredness. If we don't start seeing some Blue and Black neo-Slivers, I will be joining the ranks of those who are vastly disappointed with some of the choices made with the Slivers this time around.
Yes, I understand the reasoning behind making them only in those colors (set complexity, better drafting environment, space, limiting the colors of the returning Core Set mechanic, etc), but those are all rules that could be bent, SHOULD be bent, if it means keeping one of the mechanical hearts of the Slivers intact. The moment you thought "maybe we cannot have the Slivers in more than three colors", you should have made the decision either to bend the rules for their return, or to keep them out of the set entirely. This is the one thing done with the neo-Slivers thus far that I find indefensible.
43/111, approximately 39% complete. Over a third done.
(calling it now; there will be a cycle of Legendary dual lands with Basic Land types in Theros block)
... AAAAAAAAND I was wrong
The Attention Deficit Guy URGU
Volrath's sliver weren't inlfuecing the hive in any notable way. This was pointed out when Hanna destroyed The artificial ones and quickly desided against it.
Venser lost control of his prototype, but could still observe it. He most likely didn't do this from within the hive itself. That would kill you.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Now, now, we've only got 74/249 cards spoiled and almost none of them are blue and black. If the Slivers are five colored, that means six cards left to be spoiled, seven if we get a Queen/Overlord/Legion type of card.
That being said, if the Slivers are in fact RGW only, that's a deal breaker for me. Mechanic, appearance, AND color spread; at this point the only Sliver-like qualitiy these things have left is the one thing Wizards should have changed: the creature type. I've been looking for a reason not to buy any more cards until Theros and I think I just found it.
I'm happy actually because I know this sliver experment will ultimately fail and they will return to the original sliver concept.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
Metallic sliver flavor quote: "When the clever counterfeit was accepted by the hive, Volrath's influence upon the slivers grew even stronger."
This contradicts what you have said, and as for Hanna's quote, it said that when they destroyed the artificial slivers it did not stop the real ones from trying to kill them.
On the note of Venser, this is what I was trying to say. Since he knew that the Sliver was hunting along side the hive he probably had a way of observing where and what it was doing.
The book clearly states that the crew went for the artificial slivers first. Thinking they controlled the swarm. Hanna quickly realized this wasn't the case. Books trump flavortexts.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
That aside, I'm really hoping they make these slivers cool. It just seems like ever since Affinity, Wizards has been really scared to print any decent new archetype or tribe within a set. I understand they don't wanna print something stupid, that will just degenerate the game and take over the format. But it'd be cool if we could even get something on like a "Kithkin" level. Where it's strong, it shows up in tournies, there's a few different and viable ways you can play it, but it's not so stupid strong that it just takes the fun out of the game and you hate to see it.
I'd LOVE to Slivers at that level. Wizards been printing these interesting seeming mechanics and tribes like Metalcraft, Werewolves, and Vampires and the like that (from a Standard perspective) just never seem to get quite enough cool cards to make them anything more than a higher end casual deck. Here's to hoping for a few more cheap Slivers with cool effects!
-Really?
-Yes
-But . What about the slivers' fans?
-Lets make some really powerfull new slivers some of then that will make slivers decks in others formats become more and more powerfull lets make some of then really dumb broken
-ok
...
The flavor-wise argument. I am Vorthos and my understanding Volrath captured species from other planes and threw then into Rath and genetically modified them slivers were in this as well. If these "Humanoid" slivers are the slivers from whatever plane that they came from possibly the plane that Theros is from, I would be okay with that as long as the story somewhere reference to Volrath stealing from them. Hey we might even get more Volrath toys even though he is dead.
OR the less liked opinion i might be able to deal with is that these new slivers in the next step in the world of things. BUT that would mean the overlord lied "the end of evolution" as of right now Timespiral slivers might ruin that argument due to that is in on Dominaria and of a time - alternate timeline where they were still before the slivers. ENTERS IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCIFI REFERENCE where this makes sense.
Ahh Vorthos can only hope.
IF creative story writing team doesn't explain where the hell these are from I am mad.
IF M14 is the only set that will have slivers in them I am also going to be made because then this is just a cruel test.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I suggested in the DOTP section of the mothership forums that DOTP 2014 should have DLC decks that were based on the Time Spiral block theme decks.
One of those decks was Sliver Evolution, along with a Fungus deck, Flanking deck, and a Suspend+Storm deck, and the Planar Chaos and Future Sight precons as well.
The colors for Sliver Evolution are Red, Green, and White. What colors are represented in the M14 slivers so far? Red, Green, and White?
Some mod, or someone working at WOTC probably read my post and went "ooooh that's a great idea, let's do Slivers for M14, and make them Red, Green, and White, because I seem to forget what colors they were in, and this guy says they were in Red, Green, and White", without knowing I was referring to the Silver Evolution theme deck from Time Spiral.
Yeah, I bet that was what happened.
lol what I will just kill you now...
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
... and I will respawn with a pistol and 50 bullets.
Vampires from Zendikar cycle became a highly annoying deck to beat several times in tournaments, and Merfolk could consistently destroy you on the 4th turn, not counting Goblins from the Onslaught-Mirrodin era.
It's about taking away an annoying drawback that could backfire and make you lose games out of the blue, it's about not giving free benefits to your opponents with your own cards.
Fan of Both old and new Slivers (But the new ones are still better anyway)
C Call of Emrakul - G vs R DD: Elves vs. Goblins - W vs B DD: Divine vs. Demonic - WUB Esper Artifice - RGW Aura Dancers
WUBRG Wrath of the Reaper King - WB Men of Faith - B Mercenaries - UB Phyrexian Assault 2.0 - WU Artifacts of Empires
BR Skeleton Warriors - RG Night of The Howlpack - B Bog Murderers - BR Eldrazi Assault - BGU Ulamog's Swarm
Yep
The New slivers are from Shandalar ( the same plane where we can find
Thragtusk, Ring of Thune , War Priest of Thune , Talrand, Sky Summoner , Kalonian Behemoth , Ring of Kalonia , Acolyte of Xathrid , Ring of Xathrid , Xathrid Demon, Xathrid Gorgon , Ring of Evos Isle ,Ring of Valkas)
the plane where liliana found the veil
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Shandalar
Also if we decide to take the (mess) that is the (new) Time line we have that the events in Time Spiral happened about
7103 years ago(4502 A.R----4605 AR) (causeVenser died with about 125 years of a well spent life as a ageless entity) (cause Planeswalkers today gets old) and if we make the assumption that the old and the New time line are the same then we have that Sliver Overlord evolved to its "end of evolution" about 201 years ago( 4205 AR -- 4306 AR ) and that Volrath's Slivers lived on dominaria 400 years ago (4205 AR -- 4605 AR ) ....arrgg this timeline is a mess