THIS was the first moment in my whole time playing Magic, where I thought about rage-quitting...
They may look like whatever they like, but in my not-so-humble opinion slivers just have to grant abilities to EACH OTHER, Hive over controller, evolution or not,
I don't think a Hexproof Sliver is going to be possible, because when it hits the board they'll all be impossible to remove, and there will be other ways to boost their power and toughness in the core set.
Hexproof is really an overpowered ability. You make it so that they'll only die to lethal damage, when few non-Sliver creatures will be able to deal with a Trampling, Flying, Deathtouch +1/+2 that Regenerates.
I totally think that Slivers should have more artistic diversity to show how each phenotype brings in a new trait to the hive. I have a hard time with the fact that some of them are very humanoid.
The only thing I can think of is that they've taken their adaptive ability to the next level, and are in fact mimicking existing creatures and bringing their traits in to the hive. Steelform Sliver appears to be copying the very armor of the very Paladin's mentioned in its flavor text, while Groundshaker Sliver is clearly copying any of Green's usual huge beasties. So in terms of biology, are we to assume that the slivers reshape themselves to mimic the traits of a desireable species, and can impart these traits to the rest of a single hive?
I can definitely see how they're more closely copying the Zerg from SC2, though the Slivers were actually first (1997 was when Tempest was released; SC1 came out in 1998). The variations in Zerg strains can be very dramatic (Zergling vs Ultralisk vs Broodlord), but there is definitely a visual cohesion that these new Slivers seem to be lacking. With that mindset however, the change in the Sliver mechanic makes more sense. Slivers only share their traits with their home hives, not with every sliver in the world. This allows for the idea that a Planeswalker could subvert control of a hive and use it against other hives; neither hive would want to automatically share its biological weaponry with the opposition.
Zerg don't look like individuals or humanoids. That is the key.
They don't look like individuals TO YOU, because you are not a member of their species. Genetically, you don't care about tiny differences that might identify them as individuals.
We humans however are genetically design to tell individuals apart from each other using simple details and minor structural changes that would be pretty much invisible to creatures from another species.
Not to be a racist or anything, but haven't you ever heard someone say "All chinese look alike"? Those sort of remarks come mostly from non-asian people, yet the asians can clearly tell each other apart, because they have to and are designed too.
Also i find it funny when people point at the slivers as a group with no individuals, when clearly each sliver creature is different from the rest. Some have trample, others fly, some have shadow, and i can tell them apart just fine from looking at the cards. Heck, they have more identity than most goblin cards out there.
I would assume a True sliver army would be made up of individuals all looking EXACTLY the same, and that doesn't even happen in game, as you'll have slivers with different P/T and color..
So, flavour miss? not really. Original flavor was distorted from the start...
And don't even get me started on slivers affecting both sides of the board. That was a vestigial ability from the old days, and not a defining characteristic that doesn't make sense both gameplay and flavor wise.
Yes. Complain. And complaining works. If enough people complain about something, wizard's might take different actions in similar cases in the future.
You don't understand why WotC did this, do you? It's been stated clearly that players read and understand "creatures you control get" much better than "creatures get". There's absolutely no reason to get your undergarments in a sweaty knot.
Besides, these slivers are strictly better, since they benefit only your slivers. You can whine all you want. Me? I'd take these with a smile on my face.
You don't understand why WotC did this, do you? It's been stated clearly that players read and understand "creatures you control get" much better than "creatures get". There's absolutely no reason to get your undergarments in a sweaty knot.
Besides, these slivers are strictly better, since they benefit only your slivers. You can whine all you want. Me? I'd take these with a smile on my face.
The complaing being done is mostly because of the new art direction slivers took....
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
The complaing being done is mostly because of the new art direction slivers took....
They look fine. Easily in line with their evolution schtick. It's been a long time since we've seen hide nor chittering hair of even a sliver of a sliver, and I wouldn't put it past them to adapt to a more advanced form.
Didn't see this posted anywhere in here, though I didn't read all 44 pages. From the press release:
Another feature debuting in Magic 2014 is a new take on the popular Slivers creature type. A fan-favorite, new playable Slivers in Magic 2014 decks will include the following:
They look fine. Easily in line with their evolution schtick. It's been a long time since we've seen hide nor chittering hair of even a sliver of a sliver, and I wouldn't put it past them to adapt to a more advanced form.
The point is that these ''advanced forms'' look nothing like earlier slivers. Even humans resemble monkeys in many different ways.
You could slap these arts on any robot, eldrazi, slith or Phyrexian and get away with it.
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“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.” —Volrath
Didn't see this posted anywhere in here, though I didn't read all 44 pages. From the press release:
Another feature debuting in Magic 2014 is a new take on the popular Slivers creature type. A fan-favorite, new playable Slivers in Magic 2014 decks will include the following:
I hope these aren't Dominarian Slivers. 300 years between Scourge and Time Spiral, slivers didn't change a bit. 8-12 years between Time Spiral and now, suddenly humanoid Slivers!
You have very, very low Standards for WOTC, don't you? You're writing furious apologetics in every thread I see you in.
The guy says "giving them humanoid shapes kills the concept of hive-mind"
He's wrong
It kills his conception of Sliver hive-mind because it was entirely based on what Slivers were back in the day and clearly he has never considered the possibility that they could evolve
If pointing out flaws in an argument is being apologetic for someone else's evolution of their own creation then sure, I have very low standards for WotC; whatever makes you feel any better about people who **** and moan about everything I guess.
WotC felt that simply going with the old visual design wasn't a good idea and went with this. You can not like it, that's fine; I just don't like it when people come up with stuff that doesn't make any sense whatsoever in an attempt to rationalize their dislike.
unfortunately no...sorry. I didn't think that it was going to turn out that...tiny at 1024 pixels tall/400 pixels wide. Sorry, mistake on my part.
Basically it breaks down showing the similarities between the "larval" slivers and the discerning slivers. many of the similarities are extremely present among them, one even has the old claw and it's other arm is still growing (the red one that is standing to attack) that one also shows a more discerning (sorry, hate reusing words in the same paragraph) stance vs a flight or fight stance, showing an increase in individual intelligence. The larval haster and the discerning haster both look very similar, though the discerning has the growth of true limbs and a more solid bone structure, elongation of the spines in back into full formed tendrils, and a thinning of the carapace on the head.
The green discerning looks much like the magma sliver in it's quadrupedal form though taking a more simian approach to it due to region/location.
I also had compared lymph sliver and the red metallic looking sliver to the sentinel sliver, showing how lymphs and sentinels lower body were sat as a defensive mechanism to stabilize it as it holds it's ground, and the shiny one showing that the new sliver's silvery skin isn't new.
The most humanoid one I had shown a couple of slivers taking a human battlestance even in there larval form.
and the four armed one vs the two-headed sliver, showing that the twoheaded sliver not only took an arachnid like form (as was needed by it's adaptation, though comparing apples and oranges on this one, just showing the variety of evolutions here) but also the pressence of multiple limbs to fit it's need.
As I said, quick comparison, I could of broken it down better if I wasn't in a hurry
EDIT: I'd like to agree with canadian guy of wrath too, the old design had to be updated. I personally hated the old design and feel that they had better grasped what they could become now.
Doubtful, because that list doesn't include Steelform Sliver even though we already have a card for it. Notice the press release says "includes"; they're some of the slivers. How many more there are though is entirely unclear. I would expect maybe two common slivers and one uncommon sliver per color, maybe with a few rare slivers (if they don't do a cycle of rare colored slivers).
We don't know whether they're all mono-color or include some multi to fit in with the color themes of RtR Block either. But since this IS core set, I think we can be reasonably certain they are going to be mono colored.
Oh goody we get the Slivers back probably!
Honestly kinda ok with seeing these things back into MTG, as they were a powerhouse tribe in the old days. Proabably wont see Sliver Queen or Sliver Overlord back though shame the Atogs dont come back and are "extinct" on Mirrodin and yes I am a Atog fan.
Now, that gets me back to my next question:
"Any chance we will see some fan art or offical Wizards art of the new Chandra (shes back right) going around and pulling a Ripley on the Slivers??"
thats not what i ment.
i feel the manacosts is horrible for playing them without other sliver.you wont be 3 colored in a m14 draft. but if you have a few slivers you need to.
i have a bad feeling for this...
We barely know any of the cards from m14 yet, it's too early to say you can't play 3 color.
There could very easily be a functional Gemhide Sliver and a Rampant Growth-effect which would make a multicolor base-green deck viable. We don't know yet.
I agree with this. The new slivers make me sad.
Cheers,
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Hexproof is really an overpowered ability. You make it so that they'll only die to lethal damage, when few non-Sliver creatures will be able to deal with a Trampling, Flying, Deathtouch +1/+2 that Regenerates.
Yes. Complain. And complaining works. If enough people complain about something, wizard's might take different actions in similar cases in the future.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
The only thing I can think of is that they've taken their adaptive ability to the next level, and are in fact mimicking existing creatures and bringing their traits in to the hive. Steelform Sliver appears to be copying the very armor of the very Paladin's mentioned in its flavor text, while Groundshaker Sliver is clearly copying any of Green's usual huge beasties. So in terms of biology, are we to assume that the slivers reshape themselves to mimic the traits of a desireable species, and can impart these traits to the rest of a single hive?
I can definitely see how they're more closely copying the Zerg from SC2, though the Slivers were actually first (1997 was when Tempest was released; SC1 came out in 1998). The variations in Zerg strains can be very dramatic (Zergling vs Ultralisk vs Broodlord), but there is definitely a visual cohesion that these new Slivers seem to be lacking. With that mindset however, the change in the Sliver mechanic makes more sense. Slivers only share their traits with their home hives, not with every sliver in the world. This allows for the idea that a Planeswalker could subvert control of a hive and use it against other hives; neither hive would want to automatically share its biological weaponry with the opposition.
They don't look like individuals TO YOU, because you are not a member of their species. Genetically, you don't care about tiny differences that might identify them as individuals.
We humans however are genetically design to tell individuals apart from each other using simple details and minor structural changes that would be pretty much invisible to creatures from another species.
Not to be a racist or anything, but haven't you ever heard someone say "All chinese look alike"? Those sort of remarks come mostly from non-asian people, yet the asians can clearly tell each other apart, because they have to and are designed too.
Also i find it funny when people point at the slivers as a group with no individuals, when clearly each sliver creature is different from the rest. Some have trample, others fly, some have shadow, and i can tell them apart just fine from looking at the cards. Heck, they have more identity than most goblin cards out there.
I would assume a True sliver army would be made up of individuals all looking EXACTLY the same, and that doesn't even happen in game, as you'll have slivers with different P/T and color..
So, flavour miss? not really. Original flavor was distorted from the start...
And don't even get me started on slivers affecting both sides of the board. That was a vestigial ability from the old days, and not a defining characteristic that doesn't make sense both gameplay and flavor wise.
http://alteredartmagic.blogspot.com/search/label/Nicolarre
or in my Humble Alter Gallery at DeviantArt: http://nicolarre.deviantart.com/gallery/
You don't understand why WotC did this, do you? It's been stated clearly that players read and understand "creatures you control get" much better than "creatures get". There's absolutely no reason to get your undergarments in a sweaty knot.
Besides, these slivers are strictly better, since they benefit only your slivers. You can whine all you want. Me? I'd take these with a smile on my face.
The complaing being done is mostly because of the new art direction slivers took....
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
A break down comparison that is the best I could do in like 10 minutes
They look fine. Easily in line with their evolution schtick. It's been a long time since we've seen hide nor chittering hair of even a sliver of a sliver, and I wouldn't put it past them to adapt to a more advanced form.
Do you have a large version? I can't read it.
Another feature debuting in Magic 2014 is a new take on the popular Slivers creature type. A fan-favorite, new playable Slivers in Magic 2014 decks will include the following:
− Sliver Construct
− Predatory Sliver
− Groundshaker Sliver
− Megantic Sliver
− Blur Sliver
− Striking Sliver
− Thorncaster Sliver
− Battle Sliver
− Sentinel Sliver
− Bonescythe Sliver
In addition, Hive Stirrings, a sorcery that creates Sliver tokens, will also be included in Magic 2014.
The point is that these ''advanced forms'' look nothing like earlier slivers. Even humans resemble monkeys in many different ways.
You could slap these arts on any robot, eldrazi, slith or Phyrexian and get away with it.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath
Does this mean there are only 10 slivers?
The guy says "giving them humanoid shapes kills the concept of hive-mind"
He's wrong
It kills his conception of Sliver hive-mind because it was entirely based on what Slivers were back in the day and clearly he has never considered the possibility that they could evolve
If pointing out flaws in an argument is being apologetic for someone else's evolution of their own creation then sure, I have very low standards for WotC; whatever makes you feel any better about people who **** and moan about everything I guess.
WotC felt that simply going with the old visual design wasn't a good idea and went with this. You can not like it, that's fine; I just don't like it when people come up with stuff that doesn't make any sense whatsoever in an attempt to rationalize their dislike.
unfortunately no...sorry. I didn't think that it was going to turn out that...tiny at 1024 pixels tall/400 pixels wide. Sorry, mistake on my part.
Basically it breaks down showing the similarities between the "larval" slivers and the discerning slivers. many of the similarities are extremely present among them, one even has the old claw and it's other arm is still growing (the red one that is standing to attack) that one also shows a more discerning (sorry, hate reusing words in the same paragraph) stance vs a flight or fight stance, showing an increase in individual intelligence. The larval haster and the discerning haster both look very similar, though the discerning has the growth of true limbs and a more solid bone structure, elongation of the spines in back into full formed tendrils, and a thinning of the carapace on the head.
The green discerning looks much like the magma sliver in it's quadrupedal form though taking a more simian approach to it due to region/location.
I also had compared lymph sliver and the red metallic looking sliver to the sentinel sliver, showing how lymphs and sentinels lower body were sat as a defensive mechanism to stabilize it as it holds it's ground, and the shiny one showing that the new sliver's silvery skin isn't new.
The most humanoid one I had shown a couple of slivers taking a human battlestance even in there larval form.
and the four armed one vs the two-headed sliver, showing that the twoheaded sliver not only took an arachnid like form (as was needed by it's adaptation, though comparing apples and oranges on this one, just showing the variety of evolutions here) but also the pressence of multiple limbs to fit it's need.
As I said, quick comparison, I could of broken it down better if I wasn't in a hurry
EDIT: I'd like to agree with canadian guy of wrath too, the old design had to be updated. I personally hated the old design and feel that they had better grasped what they could become now.
*Dodges torches and pitchforks thrown at me*
Doubtful, because that list doesn't include Steelform Sliver even though we already have a card for it. Notice the press release says "includes"; they're some of the slivers. How many more there are though is entirely unclear. I would expect maybe two common slivers and one uncommon sliver per color, maybe with a few rare slivers (if they don't do a cycle of rare colored slivers).
We don't know whether they're all mono-color or include some multi to fit in with the color themes of RtR Block either. But since this IS core set, I think we can be reasonably certain they are going to be mono colored.
What does everyone else think?
Honestly kinda ok with seeing these things back into MTG, as they were a powerhouse tribe in the old days. Proabably wont see Sliver Queen or Sliver Overlord back though shame the Atogs dont come back and are "extinct" on Mirrodin and yes I am a Atog fan.
Now, that gets me back to my next question:
"Any chance we will see some fan art or offical Wizards art of the new Chandra (shes back right) going around and pulling a Ripley on the Slivers??"
Given the new look of Slivers I think Chandra would be pulling a Schwarzenegger, not a Ripley.
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We barely know any of the cards from m14 yet, it's too early to say you can't play 3 color.
There could very easily be a functional Gemhide Sliver and a Rampant Growth-effect which would make a multicolor base-green deck viable. We don't know yet.
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