Have you considered Cataclysm for your white section?
Also, what's the normal manner of drafting for you? Standard 8-man with 15-card packs (and if so, how many packs)? Do you strictly enforce colour identity?
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I love the idea. Have you drafted with it yet? Any amusing stories?
Is the color restriction for decks based on your general still present?
How does one draft this, if one needs to get up to 60 cards? Extra boosters?
What happens in the theoretical situation where one drafts no generals?
Last night was the second time we have used it and really it's been the most fun most of us have had in while playing EDH. We are mostly older and have been playing for at least 3+ years each... so it's really easy to settle into habits. There have been a fair number of "amusing stories" but last night's was a fine combination of the right cards in the right place at the right time with the right recent rules change:
"Play Sepulchral Primordial to grab Kiki-Jiki, Auralia, and something else... attack, copy Primordial, grab an Evil twin to copy Auralia, real Auralia dies, attack, copy Primordial to bring back Auralia, Evil Twin dies, Attack, Copy Primordial to bring back Evil Twin copying Auralia.... The other random crap was an It That Betrays and a 30/30 Lord of Extinction and other dumb stuff."
I don't remember exactly the order that it all happened so I am sure there is a rules glitch in my explanation, but we had a L2 judge approve so it must have been right.
The color identity stuff is all standard EDH rules. Mentally, it is a bit more present as you draft because you are drafting the Generals with the rest of the deck. If you over-prioritize tri-color Legends it seems to be a problem since a firm BRG strategy can become RUG or WRG late in the draft if Maelstrom Wanderer or Rith, the Awakener shows up.
We draft with 4 packs of 16 cards. With Generals being randomly mixed in, the extra card seems to help with the numbers. It was an intuitive decision to go with 4x16=60 cards plus 1 for the General zone but so far it's felt like the perfect balance. Typically with 64 cards drafted most people have 5-8 playables that don't make the cut and 5-8 outside their color ID - which is fine since hate-drafting Jokulhaups and Devestation is as strategic as anything else right
Have you considered Cataclysm for your white section?
Also, what's the normal manner of drafting for you? Standard 8-man with 15-card packs (and if so, how many packs)? Do you strictly enforce colour identity?
Cataclysm was the last card I was debating. It was that or Final Judgment to bring white up to 60 cards. I'll add it this week since Generals that lean towards aggro have not been heavily played and I would love to see incentive to run Ruhan.
As I said above, 4 packs at 16 cards per back to build a 60 card deck plus the General (so 61). And yes, 8 players draft and then we break into 2 pods of 4. Eight-player seems right, but last night an extra 3 showed up and we couldn't really accommodate. I wish I could think of a way to allow for 12 without it being a mess but I don't think watering it down would accomplish what I want.
I wish I could think of a way to allow for 12 without it being a mess but I don't think watering it down would accomplish what I want.
I was thinking about this. While having a larger cube would enable bigger decks or more players, it would make for a 'looser' experience I think. The past couple of times it's been a little bit tense during the draft because you can't just draft good stuff when you only have 64 cards in your deckbuilding pool. You have to be choosey and think ahead.
That said, here's a link to the EDH cube that gets played at Red Castle on occasion. I drafted it once about a year ago, and that was an 8 person draft with 100-card decks.
Sup Galspanic. Nice to see another EDH Cube on the Forums. You can check mine out in my sig, though I haven't updated the OP with the Gatecrash changes (or even all of the RtR changes I think).
The way I do things is 5 packs of 15 + 1 multicolored legend in a special back. This gets enough general options out there that everyone has a good shot at one at any point in the process. The Multicolored legends are 2 from each 2-color and each 3-color combination.
I'm currently at 640 for 8 players (600 regular cards + 40 generals). I've been considering going up to 960 for 12, but haven't bit that bullet yet.
Some comments on general selection:
Why are there 3 for some guilds and 2 for others?
Teysa 2 + Vish Kal seems too top-heavy for Orzhov. Consider either Ghost Council or the other Teysa (GC2 over Teysa 2, Teysa1 or GC1 over Vish) to differentiate your options a bit.
Gisela and Aurelia play very similarly. Consider Brion Stoutarm or Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer over one of them for a different option. Sigarda, Host of Herons is a better option than Tolsmir probably.
Consider Nin, the Pain Artist or Jhoira of the Ghitu as a cheaper RU option. Prime Speaker Zegana is by far the best GU option
I like Hazezon Tamar about a thousand times better than Rith.
Why is Bant's only option Treva? Rafiq, Jenara, Angus, and Rubinia are all great options here.
Kaalia is definitely supportable (over Oros) in her colors. There's a lot of good Dragons and Angels (and a handful of good Demons), and you want a lot of these creatures to support Mayael anyways.
I think on the whole your multicolored sections are on the large side. You've got 8-9 non-general cards in each color combination, and you aren't including things like Signets, Keyrunes, or Spell Lands in that count, which gives you in some cases as many as 12.
My cube has 9 non-general cards for each color combination, but that includes 4 dual lands, a signet for the non-green combinations, and spell lands where I include them.
It does make those sections a bit tight, but it also lets me run 79 cards in each monocolor, which gives a lot more available cards to every drafter and makes monocolored a possibility.
Will comment more later.
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I was thinking about this. While having a larger cube would enable bigger decks or more players, it would make for a 'looser' experience I think. The past couple of times it's been a little bit tense during the draft because you can't just draft good stuff when you only have 64 cards in your deckbuilding pool. You have to be choosey and think ahead.
That said, here's a link to the EDH cube that gets played at Red Castle on occasion. I drafted it once about a year ago, and that was an 8 person draft with 100-card decks.
I actually think I want to cap it at 8 and cut some cards from each. It just doesn't feel like we gain much from sneaking in another 4 players AND this is largely made up of cards I already own - and I would rather not have to go out and buy a ton of new Legends that I don't want/have already. My next goal really is to just play it out more... the 2 drafts have been fun, but it's hard to make any real analysis on that alone.
Sup Galspanic. Nice to see another EDH Cube on the Forums. You can check mine out in my sig, though I haven't updated the OP with the Gatecrash changes (or even all of the RtR changes I think).
The way I do things is 5 packs of 15 + 1 multicolored legend in a special back. This gets enough general options out there that everyone has a good shot at one at any point in the process. The Multicolored legends are 2 from each 2-color and each 3-color combination.
I have heard a lot of people drafting the Generals separately. I also get the feeling that it makes a huge difference on a lot of what you say here. For me I wanted to push 3 color and give people playable 2 color Legends in their three colors. Golgari has a bunch of Legends that can be at the helm but also totally good in the deck (Glissa, Varolz, and as it turns out... Sisters). I felt that overdoing it with Legends it would give people more options as they were drafting - "Oh, you are on the 4th pack and you just realized that your 3 color deck is narrowing in on 2 colors? Here, have a General that you can play with those 2 colors!" So far it seems to work okay.
Some comments on general selection:
Why are there 3 for some guilds and 2 for others?
Teysa 2 + Vish Kal seems too top-heavy for Orzhov. Consider either Ghost Council or the other Teysa (GC2 over Teysa 2, Teysa1 or GC1 over Vish) to differentiate your options a bit.
Gisela and Aurelia play very similarly. Consider Brion Stoutarm or Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer over one of them for a different option. Sigarda, Host of Herons is a better option than Tolsmir probably.
Consider Nin, the Pain Artist or Jhoira of the Ghitu as a cheaper RU option. Prime Speaker Zegana is by far the best GU option
I like Hazezon Tamar about a thousand times better than Rith.
Why is Bant's only option Treva? Rafiq, Jenara, Angus, and Rubinia are all great options here.
Kaalia is definitely supportable (over Oros) in her colors. There's a lot of good Dragons and Angels (and a handful of good Demons), and you want a lot of these creatures to support Mayael anyways.
Some color combinations have better Legends than others so I figure that as long as I have 2 of each I can add more as long as they are deck-playable. Teysa 2 was added after the first draft because she doubles as a General and a No Mercy effect. I was going to put in Dread, but it doesn't seem to open up as many options as Teysa 2. Vish Kal is a General, a beater, life gainer, and most importantly: a manaless sac outlet. I think he sucks as a General most of the time, but he is useful elsewhere.
I think on the whole your multicolored sections are on the large side.
I can see cutting down on multi-color in the future but for now I don't think I will. For me, drafting focused 3 color decks is a challenge and a lot of fun. Part of me would be disappointed if someone went Monocolor I think... it's like they missed out or something. That said, I think that it's one of those conscious choices that I made that I need to not assume was right. I'll see how the others react to it and see if anyone ever tries to force Monochrome. So, if I told you I was thinking about adding the Talisman and Cluestones too you'd disapprove?
I actually think I want to cap it at 8 and cut some cards from each. It just doesn't feel like we gain much from sneaking in another 4 players AND this is largely made up of cards I already own - and I would rather not have to go out and buy a ton of new Legends that I don't want/have already. My next goal really is to just play it out more... the 2 drafts have been fun, but it's hard to make any real analysis on that alone.
I have heard a lot of people drafting the Generals separately. I also get the feeling that it makes a huge difference on a lot of what you say here. For me I wanted to push 3 color and give people playable 2 color Legends in their three colors. Golgari has a bunch of Legends that can be at the helm but also totally good in the deck (Glissa, Varolz, and as it turns out... Sisters). I felt that overdoing it with Legends it would give people more options as they were drafting - "Oh, you are on the 4th pack and you just realized that your 3 color deck is narrowing in on 2 colors? Here, have a General that you can play with those 2 colors!" So far it seems to work okay.
Some color combinations have better Legends than others so I figure that as long as I have 2 of each I can add more as long as they are deck-playable. Teysa 2 was added after the first draft because she doubles as a General and a No Mercy effect. I was going to put in Dread, but it doesn't seem to open up as many options as Teysa 2. Vish Kal is a General, a beater, life gainer, and most importantly: a manaless sac outlet. I think he sucks as a General most of the time, but he is useful elsewhere.
I can see cutting down on multi-color in the future but for now I don't think I will. For me, drafting focused 3 color decks is a challenge and a lot of fun. Part of me would be disappointed if someone went Monocolor I think... it's like they missed out or something. That said, I think that it's one of those conscious choices that I made that I need to not assume was right. I'll see how the others react to it and see if anyone ever tries to force Monochrome. So, if I told you I was thinking about adding the Talisman and Cluestones too you'd disapprove?
There are a number of camps for EDH Cubing
1) Pre-draft (or more rarely post-draft) your generals from special general-only packs (Dolono and Theogony IX both do this)
2) Bring your own general(s)
3) Generals drafted in packs, but specially denoted (this is the way I do it)
4) Generals fully integrated in packs
I try to run 2-color legends that would fit into 3-color decks. This definitely indicates a lot of the choices I've suggested, like Sigarda over Tolsmir and Zegana over Momir Vig.
As far as multicolor goes, it's really your call. I like having broader monocolored sections as it allows me to squeeze in strategies that otherwise would not make the cut, like more support for Tokens, Voltron, etc. There's also a handful of cards that really scream "EDH", but only really shine in mono-colored decks, like Cabal Coffers, Caged Sun, really any mana-doubling effect. There's generally only one mono drafter at a table, but they can frequently grab all of the doublers for their color and do some pretty spectacular things.
There's also some tremendously powerful mono legends like Azusa, Kiki-jiki, Xiahou Dun, etc that it's great to be able to use.
If you really want more fixing, I'd suggest another cycle or two of duals before adding more mana artifacts. It looks like you currently have Fetches, Shocks, Duals, Filters, and Checklands, you could also try Painlands and Karoos (in that order of preference).
There are a number of camps for EDH Cubing
1) Pre-draft (or more rarely post-draft) your generals from special general-only packs (Dolono and Theogony IX both do this)
2) Bring your own general(s)
3) Generals drafted in packs, but specially denoted (this is the way I do it)
4) Generals fully integrated in packs
I am too new to be firm on anything, but I have really enjoyed being a #4 guy so far.
There is something fun about hitting a bomb general in Pack 4 and changing colors - or at least seeing if you can. The other ways seem to put too much stock in the general and we tend to run them for color ID first and then their abilities second and this draft method feels natural to that.
I try to run 2-color legends that would fit into 3-color decks. This definitely indicates a lot of the choices I've suggested, like Sigarda over Tolsmir and Zegana over Momir Vig.
I hate Zenaga since she is the most lame and lazy card designed in years But really, I don't like how generic she is and that aside from being potentially big and potentially drawing you cards... meh. Those are abilities I would like to see in the decks instead. Sigarda might go in over Tolsmir but she is just a beater (and I just gave my last one to Macius :-/). Tolsmir was supposed to help back up GW Token Strategies and give GW aggro a bit of chance against some of the Stax effects. If I added Sigarda I would likely keep Tolsmir as a token maker and Anthem.
There's also a handful of cards that really scream "EDH", but only really shine in mono-colored decks, like Cabal Coffers, Caged Sun, really any mana-doubling effect. There's generally only one mono drafter at a table, but they can frequently grab all of the doublers for their color and do some pretty spectacular things.
There's also some tremendously powerful mono legends like Azusa, Kiki-jiki, Xiahou Dun, etc that it's great to be able to use.
When we were piecing it together we actually wanted to keep the mana doubling out of the box. So, no Mirari's Wake, no Mana Reflection, none of that. Those cards help move the game ahead too fast and we tend to like more grindy destructive games. If it feels like ramp will work without being dominant, absolutely. AND, if I want to push mono-colored, Caged Sun and Gauntlet will be shoe ins.
If you really want more fixing, I'd suggest another cycle or two of duals before adding more mana artifacts. It looks like you currently have Fetches, Shocks, Duals, Filters, and Checklands, you could also try Painlands and Karoos (in that order of preference).
What if I think that red needs more Land Destruction? The weird part of the games played with the Cube so far has been the absence of Mass Land Destruction - Normally we get lands blown up once or twice a game and now it's like land actually sticks around... and it's weird.
Gals, have you considered branching out past the traditional EDH-legal cards? Some stuff that has been banned for power level in constructed EDH might be ok in limited EDH (akin to how power is run in many normal cubes).
Some cards to make your radar under such a situation:
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
In multiplayer games those cards can typically ruin a game on their own, but honestly I haven't put any thought into it. We have BlaBraids and Kokushko in there but nobody has tried to General them yet.
There are a few that I think could work...
Mirror is fine. Academy is fine, but I am not spending that kind of money on it
Thanks for posting this up. Got some great ideas like running an infect theme from your list.
I've just finished up my own list and did some games last weekend. I remember one game getting dominated by a Sneak Attack fueled Corpse Dance that at one point had him triggering Kokusho multiple times a turn by sacking it to Goblin Bombardment.
Here's some suggestions for you
Sacred Ground - This is a great counter to mass LD and stax strategies as well as answering random Eldrazi. False Prophet - A rare sweeper on a body and best of all he exiles. Faith's Reward - Very potent with and against mass LD. Spore Frog - Cheap rattlesnake card that acts as a backup Spike Weaver. Good in Karador. Constant Mists - Fog with buyback for defense green decks. Far Wanderings - It's bad early but threshold doesn't take that long for a lot of decks to achieve. Creeping Corrosion - Green ramp decks can ramp lands and use this to blow up mana rocks. Callous Oppressor - He's a bit of a political card. You just have to ask the right person to pick and you can steal everything else. Volrath's Shapeshifter - If the top card of your graveyard is a creature you get the ETB ability. It's a mini Body Double that provides a discard outlet for just 3 mana. Aura Thief - I like to combine this guy with Jokulhaups so you gain control of everything that's left over. Reins of Power - You can steal someone's army to alpha strike with or grab a bunch of blockers and get them killed. Great with free sac outlets too. Tunnel Vision - I'm playing it with some legitimate uses outside of tucking and killing someone like Living Death or the more comical Planar Birth but the tucking plan is still there. Shattering Spree/Shattering Pulse - You worried you have too much artifact destruction or something? Radiate - Not sure if this card will do much or not but I added it. Wake of Destruction - Land destruction. Wildfire - Land destruction. Obliterate - Land destruction. Greater Gargodon - He's a very cheap and hard to interact with sac outlets that also helps you recover from mass destruction spells. Warp World - This may be too risky. Phyrexian Reclamation - Nice recursion card. Attrition - I wasn't sure if I had enough sac outlets. This one seems pretty good. Dauthi Embrace - I'm trying this out as a political card but I don't have any data on it. You can use this on opponent's creatures so they can attack each other or your creatures so they can't be blocked. Mindslicer - He's good with mass destruction spells to make sure people don't have a hand after you've mana screwed them. Lethal Vapors - This is a great board control card for black that I rarely see. Most people don't want to skip a turn to get rid of it and it can be played around with regen and indestructible creatures. Black Market - Good with mass destruction because it gives you a lot of mana afterwords. Spreading Plague - Another board control card for black that is very oppressive for creatures. If someone casts their commander all their non-colorless creatures die and if they cast a non-colorless creature their commander dies. People can also use their creatures to kill other creatures. Hatred - In addition to being a nice way to kill people with commander damage it goes great with the Infect theme you have here. Death Cloud - Blows up land and makes them discard their hand. Pox - Same here though this one is more difficult to use. Pithing Needle - Just a cheap way to answer some commanders and annoying permanents. Arena of the Ancients - Colorless voltron stopper. Myr Retriever - Cheap colorless artifact recursion. There's some other options but I like this one best because it only costs 2. Jester's Cap - It can help decks that are soft to certain cards and strategies. Contagion Engine - Infect support and goes with Planeswalkers. Identity Crisis - Can really cripple people for a reasonable price. Grim Feast - Can gain a lot of life in multiplayer. Djinn Illuminatus - Costs a lot of mana and probably sucks but he looks fun. Memory Plunder - This is my favorite U/B card because it can give me access to effects I can't get in this color combination. Delirium - I like how you can wait until after someone decides who they're attacking before you use it. R/B doesn't feel very deep compared to the other colors so I'm trying it out. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - Card draw for decks that lack it.
Most of these I'm sure you know about but these stood out as the more fringe cards I'm running that I thought might be interesting in your cube.
Gals, have you considered branching out past the traditional EDH-legal cards? Some stuff that has been banned for power level in constructed EDH might be ok in limited EDH (akin to how power is run in many normal cubes).
Some cards to make your radar under such a situation:
For now I think that 8 people with 60 card decks is what I want - Even with adding enough here to creep it towards 10 people it's starting to feel watered down a bit. So... I don't know what the ideal size is just yet.
I did just buy these though:
Wildfire
Razia's Purification
Natural Balance
Ravages of War has been on my want list for years, but no way.
Last night was Draft #3 out of the pile.
- 7 people showed up with an 8th arriving as we were in Pack 3 of 4.
- He got 8 packs to do a sealed deck instead and it looks like it worked just fine.
-After feeling like red was being under-drafted the last 2 weeks, I made some changes that apparently worked. 6 of 8 used red and I saw red board wipes wrecking the games all night. I saw Boom/Bust, Devastation, Bend or Break twice, and Wildfire all get played in one game.
I know that the other pod played 2 games but I didn't catch much detail. I do know that Thrax had Teferi's Veil out for a while and that seems like a good play to me.
In ours I somehow managed to win both games. In game 1 after getting lands blown up 2-3 times I managed to rebuild, cast Turn / Burn on the guy at 2 who basically set me up to win, and land a Kozilek while the rest of the table was under 10. The deck had Time Spiral, Reforge the Soul, and Windfall and I hit all 3 - which really was a huge reason I was able to pull it off. Also, on a related note, Death Match is amazing. NOTHING stuck around for very long at all. Tarial played that then Goblin Assault and it was a slaughter.
Game 2 started late and after having lands blown up 5 times, 2 Devestation Tides, and one Overloaded Cycloninc Rift I thought that it would never end. But, in a very bizarre sequesnce of events earlier in the game I also won this one with a late game top deck. Early on, I hit Rith and Tariel with a Sword of Body and Mind wielding Shapesharer. I wanted the Wolf token and didn't really care about milling. Riku had a bunch of card draw and was also starting to run low on cards. I kept discarding Kozilek of Ulamog (I really got both?!) and my library had 40+ cards at the end of the game. We spent most of our time preventing Rith's Luminarch Ascension + Seedborn Muse from going off and I was at 2 land. I drew Windfall, looked at my hand, and thought I might be able to draw into some removal for the Ascension if I could draw an Island - which I had a hard time doing all night. I top deck my Island, looked at the libraries, looked at Tariels full hand of cards (because he got stuck on 1 land), and played Windfall while everyone's deck had 5-7 cards left. Boom!
It was not the first time our group has seen Windfall win games - not even close to the first time - but it's funny and sort of lame when the guy who more or less got blown out all game can top deck the 1 card that will instantly kill the table the turn before he was going to get cockpunched by an army of 4/4 Angel tokens.
Anyway.... changes for the pile? I don't know yet. I grabbed a Sigarda to stick in there, but so far it seems to be working well. Tariel was a legit stax deck with Nether Void, Smokestacks, Token makers, and all sorts of stuff to support all that. Yet, I never saw anyone cast their generals but me... and he got tucked fast.
Last night was Draft #3 out of the pile.
- 7 people showed up with an 8th arriving as we were in Pack 3 of 4.
- He got 8 packs to do a sealed deck instead and it looks like it worked just fine.
-After feeling like red was being under-drafted the last 2 weeks, I made some changes that apparently worked. 6 of 8 used red and I saw red board wipes wrecking the games all night. I saw Boom/Bust, Devastation, Bend or Break twice, and Wildfire all get played in one game.
I know that the other pod played 2 games but I didn't catch much detail. I do know that Thrax had Teferi's Veil out for a while and that seems like a good play to me.
In ours I somehow managed to win both games. In game 1 after getting lands blown up 2-3 times I managed to rebuild, cast Turn / Burn on the guy at 2 who basically set me up to win, and land a Kozilek while the rest of the table was under 10. The deck had Time Spiral, Reforge the Soul, and Windfall and I hit all 3 - which really was a huge reason I was able to pull it off. Also, on a related note, Death Match is amazing. NOTHING stuck around for very long at all. Tarial played that then Goblin Assault and it was a slaughter.
Game 2 started late and after having lands blown up 5 times, 2 Devestation Tides, and one Overloaded Cycloninc Rift I thought that it would never end. But, in a very bizarre sequesnce of events earlier in the game I also won this one with a late game top deck. Early on, I hit Rith and Tariel with a Sword of Body and Mind wielding Shapesharer. I wanted the Wolf token and didn't really care about milling. Riku had a bunch of card draw and was also starting to run low on cards. I kept discarding Kozilek of Ulamog (I really got both?!) and my library had 40+ cards at the end of the game. We spent most of our time preventing Rith's Luminarch Ascension + Seedborn Muse from going off and I was at 2 land. I drew Windfall, looked at my hand, and thought I might be able to draw into some removal for the Ascension if I could draw an Island - which I had a hard time doing all night. I top deck my Island, looked at the libraries, looked at Tariels full hand of cards (because he got stuck on 1 land), and played Windfall while everyone's deck had 5-7 cards left. Boom!
It was not the first time our group has seen Windfall win games - not even close to the first time - but it's funny and sort of lame when the guy who more or less got blown out all game can top deck the 1 card that will instantly kill the table the turn before he was going to get cockpunched by an army of 4/4 Angel tokens.
Anyway.... changes for the pile? I don't know yet. I grabbed a Sigarda to stick in there, but so far it seems to be working well. Tariel was a legit stax deck with Nether Void, Smokestacks, Token makers, and all sorts of stuff to support all that. Yet, I never saw anyone cast their generals but me... and he got tucked fast.
Our table had Thrax(me), Sygg, Ghave, and Adun. Very grindy creature-based games with quite a bit of gy recursion/theft on all sides. The only gy hate played at the table was Deathrite Shaman and he got killed pretty quickly. Also only one wrath played out of two games. Both games ended when all players were below 10 life, so felt pretty balanced. The very last game had 3 players left, 1 at 4 life, me at 2, and the third at 3.
Artifact and especially enchantment hate is a little light. I know I've been first-picking Krosan Grip because I know there are some crippling enchantments and artifacts in the cube. Rack and Ruin saved my butt last night. Especially with stax and pillowfort strategies viable within the cube. Soltari Visionary would be welcome. Aura Shards for sure. Return to Dust. Maybe some green enchantment board wipes like Primeval Light, but that might be too niche. Or that enchantment that lets you play 1gg to kill all 'other' enchantments.
That's just weird. I think that aside from 3 swords, a Sylvan Library, and Death Match I didn't see any artifacts or enchantments all night. The fact that my Shardless Agent got nuked with some disenchant or something just shows how low the density was on our side.
Return to Dust should be there though. I just felt like white was already so removal heavy that I didn't want to go too crazy, but there are about 5 cards in each color that haven't been doing their job.
Yeah, I had Teferi's Veil, Propaganda, Night of Souls' Betrayal and Aether Flash out at different points.
I'd probably second pick a Soltari Visionary. He's so good in aggro, with a sword, etc. I had been planning on playing either RW or esper aggro this past week, but it wasn't in the cards. I actually took Thrax over SoWaP in my first pack.
I promise that it was in there, but I think Tariel and Rith took most of the sweepers, I cut Aura Shards because I wasn't seeing a lot of imposing enchantment walls. But how you built that up is beyond me. In just 3 weeks I have totally changed my view of board wipes though - so important here.
Soltaris seem good but I'd like to sneak your buddy Cephalid Constable in to give blue more enchantment bounce.
Hey Galspanic, good to see some more EDH cube crossovers. I noticed kraus911 mention that staxs and pillowfort were very draftable in your cube. I'm still making the finishing tweaks to an EDH cube and was wondering what you (and others) thought the important cards for these archetypes were. Guess it's relevant that my cube is going to be a fair bit smaller than others' at only 490 cards (450 + 40 generals) for 6 players.
Woah... thanks for that list. Was more thinking of the specifics that mostly just go in those decks, so I guess the Ghostly Prison type effects for the pillowfort and the mutual sac effects for stax.
The token and removal effects make the sacrifices less symmetrical but are generally good in any deck.
It's bedtime now for me so I'll have another look to compare the list to my cube in the evening (cause I'm currently working night-shifts). Thanks again.
Ah I see...
Because you are building EDH decks with this, the color identity of the cards makes a huge difference. And really, any of the 3 color combinations can do just fine. Green is the weakest of the colors here, but it supports well.
There is also a big divide is stalling out and wearing away resources so it really depends where on the spectrum you want to fall.
Okies, I've had a look over the list and as expected I do run a lot of these cards anyway. Got a few cards that weren't on the list that I was wondering what you think of.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - She isn't that good :shrug:. I know that she is great against decks that play a lot of spells per turn, but normally she is just a 2/1 first strike for 2... not terrible, but tax effects aren't that effective unless you have a few on the table. It's why Trinisphere and Sphere of Resistance aren't there either. In constructed, you run 5-10 of these kinds of effects and it's good. Here, if 2 people are grabbing them they pretty much wasted those picks.
Sphere of Safety - It might be some day, but the enchantment count was just a little lower than I would like. I have been watching for how many enchantments are out at any given time and it ~might~ be worth it, but now it looks like people would need to pay 1 or 2 and at 5 mana that's a bit steep. If it looks like people are yanking enchantment decks then I will take out Flagstones of Trokair and add Serra's Sanctum with similar motivations.
Chancellor of the Annex - Because it's a bad card? Windborn Muse would go in way before Chancellor.
Overburden and Tainted Aether - Like the tax effects these tend to be best when stacked and I didn't feel like they would do anything but annoy people most of the time. But, Death Match, Horobi, Death's Wail, and Pandemonium are in and they have the same kind of effect on game states, sooooo maybe?
Mana Vortex and Desolation - They were both in my early versions but I actually don't want too much Land Destruction and seeing that nobody drafted red, red got the land killers.
War Tax - I hate cards that require mana after they resolve and I hate War Tax. I would play it and my mana either went towards War Tax or the cards in my hand, but never both. It's just so counter to what a Pillowfort deck wants to do in practice.
Pendrell Mists - A good card that I would like to squeeze in sometimes, but people haven't been really big on creatures. So, it might cost people 1 or 2 per turn but nothing super flashy. I am sure it will end up in there anyway since I like it.
Price of Glory - Not enough flash or instants to make the cut.
2 and 3 color Generals are in their own packs.
2 color generals have Partner.
1 Damia, Sage of Stone
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
1 Jenara, Asura of War
1 Karador, Ghost Chieftain
1 Kresh the Bloodbraided
1 Marath, Will of the Wild
1 Marchesa, the Black Rose
1 Numot, the Devastator
1 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
1 Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
1 Queen Marchesa
1 Rafiq of the Many
1 Riku of Two Reflections
1 Samut, Voice of Dissent
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 The Mimeoplasm
1 Thraximundar
1 Zedruu the Greathearted
1 Zurgo Helmsmasher
1 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
1 Ezuri, Claw of Progress
1 Garna, the Bloodflame
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Karametra, God of Harvests
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Kruphix, God of Horizons
1 Lavinia of the Tenth
1 Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest
1 Medomai the Ageless
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
1 Nin, the pain Artist
1 Omnath, Locus of Rage
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage
1 Rhys the Redeemed
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Shanna, Sisay's Legacy
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
1 Tatyova, Benthic Druid
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 The Locust God
1 The Scorpion God
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
1 Vela the Night-Clad
1 Vona, Butcher of Magan
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Angel of Finality
1 Archangel of Tithes
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Baird, Steward of Argive
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Battlegrace Angel
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Captain of the Watch
1 Containment Priest
1 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Emeria Shepherd
1 Evra, Halcyon Witness
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Hushwing Gryff
1 Karmic Guide
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mother of Runes
1 Peacekeeper
1 Preacher
1 Resplendent Angel
1 Restoration Angel
1 Selfless Squire
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Wall of Omens
1 Wall of Reverence
1 Zetalpa, Primal Dawn
1 Armageddon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Austere Command
1 Axis of Mortailty
1 Blind Obedience
1 Catastrophe
1 Cathars' Crusade
1 Council's Judgment
1 Descend upon the Sinful
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Eerie Interlude
1 Empyrial Storm
1 End Hostilities
1 Faith's Reward
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Gideon Jura
1 Humility
1 Martial Coup
1 Mystic Barrier
1 Oath of Gideon
1 Path to Exile
1 Ravages of War
1 Rout
1 Rule of Law
1 Secure the Wastes
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Terminus
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Chasm Skulker
1 Clever Impersonator
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Deepglow Skate
1 Docent of Perfection
1 Draining Whelk
1 Gigantoplasm
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Kheru Spellsnatcher
1 Mulldrifter
1 Nezahal, Primal Tide
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Reef Worm
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Simic Manipulator
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Stratus Dancer
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Brainstorm
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Capsize
1 Crush of Tentacles
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Devastation Tide
1 Dig Through Time
1 Dismiss into Dream
1 Dramatic Reversal
1 Echo Storm
1 Evacuation
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Frozen Aether
1 Hired Heist
1 Imprisoned in the Moon
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Mana Drain
1 Mind Unbound
1 Mind's Dilation
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Mystic Remora
1 Oath of Jace
1 Pact of Negation
1 Ponder
1 Pongify
1 Preordain
1 Propaganda
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Recurring Insight
1 Remand
1 Retreat to Coralhelm
1 Rhystic Study
1 Spell Crumple
1 Squelch
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Teferi, Temporal Archmage
1 Teferi's Veil
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Time Spiral
1 Time Warp
1 Unsubstantiate
1 Wash Out
1 Bearer of Silence
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Blood Artist
1 Bloodghast
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Bontu the Glorified
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Coffin Queen
1 Dark Confidant
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Flesh Carver
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Golgari Thug
1 Grave Titan
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 Lord of the Void
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Merciless Executioner
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Nether Traitor
1 Ogre Slumlord
1 Phyrexian Delver
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Smothering Abomination
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Tetzimoc, Primal Death
1 Zulaport Cutthroa
1 Assemble the Rank and Vile
1 Bitterblossom
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Buriedl Alive
1 Corpse Dance
1 Damnation
1 Death Pits of Rath
1 Decree of Pain
1 Dictate of Erebos
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Innocent Blood
1 Languish
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Living Death
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Necromancy
1 Night's Whisper
1 No Mercy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Reanimate
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Shallow Grave
1 Sign in Blood
1 Skull Storm
1 Sorin Markov
1 Syphon Mind
1 Thrilling Encore
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Waste Not
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Beetleback Chief
1 Dualcaster Mage
1 Etali, Primal Storm
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Goblin Marshal
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Welder
1 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
1 Hanweir Garrison
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Hound of Griselbrand
1 Inferno Titan
1 Keldon Firebombers
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Magmatic Force
1 Magus of the Wheel
1 Markov Blademaster
1 Ogre Battledriver
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Prophetic Flamespeaker
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Scourge of the Throne
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Squee, the Immortal
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Antagonism
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Blood Sun
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Chaos Warp
1 Daretti, Scrap Savant
1 Devastation
1 Earthquake
1 Flameshadow Conjuring
1 Fury Storm
1 Goblin Assault
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Hordeling Outburst
1 Impact Tremors
1 Incendiary Dissent
1 Insurrection
1 Jokulhaups
1 Khorvath's Fury
1 Price of Glory
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Rage Reflection
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1 Savage Beating
1 Sneak Attack
1 Spellshock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Vance's Blasting Cannons
1 Vandalblast
1 Vicious Shadows
1 Volcanic Vision
1 Warstorm Surge
1 War's Toll
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wildfire
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avenger of Zendikar
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloom Tender
1 Caustic Caterpillar
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Conclave Naturalists
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Den Protector
1 Earl of Squirrel
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Forgotten Ancient
1 Fruitcake Elemental
1 Genesis Hydra
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Hornet Nest
1 Hornet Queen
1 Hydra Omnivore
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Ramunap Excavator
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Regal Behemoth
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 Verdant Force
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wood Elves
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Burgeoning
1 Cultivate
1 Deglamer
1 Doubling Season
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Exploration
1 From Beyond
1 Frontier Siege
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Genesis Storm
1 Greater Good
1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc
1 Hardened Scales
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Life from the Loam
1 Lurking Predators
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Natural Unity
1 Nature's Will
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Parallel Lives
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Regrowth
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Sylvan Library
1 Azorius Keyrune
1 Azorius Signet
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Ojutai's Command
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Baleful Strix
1 Dimir Keyrune
1 Dimir Signet
1 Hostage Taker
1 Mindleech Mass
1 Sire of Stagnation
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Everlasting Torment
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Spiteful Visions
1 Dragonlair Spider
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Gruul Keyrune
1 Gruul Signet
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Savageborn Hydra
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Selesnya Charm
1 Selesnya Keyrune
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Sigil Captain
1 Ashen Rider
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Orzhov Keyrune
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Utter End
1 Vindicate
1 Dack Fayden
1 Dack's Duplicate
1 Izzet Keyrune
1 Izzet Signet
1 Ral Zarek
1 Steam Augury
1 Storm the Vault
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
1 Golgari Charm
1 Golgari Keyrune
1 Golgari Signet
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Boros Charm
1 Boros Keyrune
1 Boros Signet
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Path of Mettle
1 Rise of the Hobgoblins
1 Hadana's Climb
1 Master Biomancer
1 Mystic Snake
1 Nissa, Steward of Elements
1 Progenitor Mimic
1 Simic Keyrune
1 Simic Signet
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 All is Dust
1 Armory Automaton
1 Backup Plan
1 Batterskull
1 Blackblade Reforged
1 Blade of Selves
1 Brago's Favor
1 Burnished Hart
1 Canal Dredger
1 Chaos Orb
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Cogwork Librarian
1 Commander's Sphere
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Duplicant
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Forcefield
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Helm of the Host
1 Illusionist's Bracers
1 Immediate Action
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mind's Eye
1 Mirage Mirror
1 Muzzio's Preparations
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Panharmonicon
1 Perilous Vault
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Split Screen
1 Staff of Nin
1 Strionic Resonator
1 Summoner's Bond
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 The Chain Veil
1 The Immortal Sun
1 Thought Vessel
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Thran Temporal Gateway
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trading Post
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Maze of Ith
1 Temple of the False God
1 Strip Mine
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bayou
1 Blood Crypt
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 City of Ass
1 City of Brass
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Fetid Heath
1 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Flooded Grove
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Graven Cairns
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mana Confluence
1 Mystic Gate
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Path of Ancestry
1 Plateau
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Malice
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of Plenty
1 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Twilight Mire
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Watery Grave
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Woodland Cemetary
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Needle Spires
1 Raging Ravine
1 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hanweir Battlements
1 Kher Keep
1 Kor Haven
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Yavimaya Hollow
50 Island
50 Mountain
50 Plains
50 Swamp
20 Wastes
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Is the color restriction for decks based on your general still present?
How does one draft this, if one needs to get up to 60 cards? Extra boosters?
What happens in the theoretical situation where one drafts no generals?
My Pauper Cube ♤ The Pauper Cube Thread Common Knowledge — 1 2
Have you considered Cataclysm for your white section?
Also, what's the normal manner of drafting for you? Standard 8-man with 15-card packs (and if so, how many packs)? Do you strictly enforce colour identity?
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
Last night was the second time we have used it and really it's been the most fun most of us have had in while playing EDH. We are mostly older and have been playing for at least 3+ years each... so it's really easy to settle into habits. There have been a fair number of "amusing stories" but last night's was a fine combination of the right cards in the right place at the right time with the right recent rules change:
"Play Sepulchral Primordial to grab Kiki-Jiki, Auralia, and something else... attack, copy Primordial, grab an Evil twin to copy Auralia, real Auralia dies, attack, copy Primordial to bring back Auralia, Evil Twin dies, Attack, Copy Primordial to bring back Evil Twin copying Auralia.... The other random crap was an It That Betrays and a 30/30 Lord of Extinction and other dumb stuff."
I don't remember exactly the order that it all happened so I am sure there is a rules glitch in my explanation, but we had a L2 judge approve so it must have been right.
The color identity stuff is all standard EDH rules. Mentally, it is a bit more present as you draft because you are drafting the Generals with the rest of the deck. If you over-prioritize tri-color Legends it seems to be a problem since a firm BRG strategy can become RUG or WRG late in the draft if Maelstrom Wanderer or Rith, the Awakener shows up.
We draft with 4 packs of 16 cards. With Generals being randomly mixed in, the extra card seems to help with the numbers. It was an intuitive decision to go with 4x16=60 cards plus 1 for the General zone but so far it's felt like the perfect balance. Typically with 64 cards drafted most people have 5-8 playables that don't make the cut and 5-8 outside their color ID - which is fine since hate-drafting Jokulhaups and Devestation is as strategic as anything else right
Cataclysm was the last card I was debating. It was that or Final Judgment to bring white up to 60 cards. I'll add it this week since Generals that lean towards aggro have not been heavily played and I would love to see incentive to run Ruhan.
As I said above, 4 packs at 16 cards per back to build a 60 card deck plus the General (so 61). And yes, 8 players draft and then we break into 2 pods of 4. Eight-player seems right, but last night an extra 3 showed up and we couldn't really accommodate. I wish I could think of a way to allow for 12 without it being a mess but I don't think watering it down would accomplish what I want.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I was thinking about this. While having a larger cube would enable bigger decks or more players, it would make for a 'looser' experience I think. The past couple of times it's been a little bit tense during the draft because you can't just draft good stuff when you only have 64 cards in your deckbuilding pool. You have to be choosey and think ahead.
That said, here's a link to the EDH cube that gets played at Red Castle on occasion. I drafted it once about a year ago, and that was an 8 person draft with 100-card decks.
http://www.onegeneraltorule.com/commander-cube-list/
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
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StaffThe way I do things is 5 packs of 15 + 1 multicolored legend in a special back. This gets enough general options out there that everyone has a good shot at one at any point in the process. The Multicolored legends are 2 from each 2-color and each 3-color combination.
I'm currently at 640 for 8 players (600 regular cards + 40 generals). I've been considering going up to 960 for 12, but haven't bit that bullet yet.
Some comments on general selection:
Why are there 3 for some guilds and 2 for others?
Teysa 2 + Vish Kal seems too top-heavy for Orzhov. Consider either Ghost Council or the other Teysa (GC2 over Teysa 2, Teysa1 or GC1 over Vish) to differentiate your options a bit.
Gisela and Aurelia play very similarly. Consider Brion Stoutarm or Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer over one of them for a different option.
Sigarda, Host of Herons is a better option than Tolsmir probably.
Consider Nin, the Pain Artist or Jhoira of the Ghitu as a cheaper RU option.
Prime Speaker Zegana is by far the best GU option
I like Hazezon Tamar about a thousand times better than Rith.
Why is Bant's only option Treva? Rafiq, Jenara, Angus, and Rubinia are all great options here.
Kaalia is definitely supportable (over Oros) in her colors. There's a lot of good Dragons and Angels (and a handful of good Demons), and you want a lot of these creatures to support Mayael anyways.
I think on the whole your multicolored sections are on the large side. You've got 8-9 non-general cards in each color combination, and you aren't including things like Signets, Keyrunes, or Spell Lands in that count, which gives you in some cases as many as 12.
My cube has 9 non-general cards for each color combination, but that includes 4 dual lands, a signet for the non-green combinations, and spell lands where I include them.
It does make those sections a bit tight, but it also lets me run 79 cards in each monocolor, which gives a lot more available cards to every drafter and makes monocolored a possibility.
Will comment more later.
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Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I actually think I want to cap it at 8 and cut some cards from each. It just doesn't feel like we gain much from sneaking in another 4 players AND this is largely made up of cards I already own - and I would rather not have to go out and buy a ton of new Legends that I don't want/have already. My next goal really is to just play it out more... the 2 drafts have been fun, but it's hard to make any real analysis on that alone.
I have heard a lot of people drafting the Generals separately. I also get the feeling that it makes a huge difference on a lot of what you say here. For me I wanted to push 3 color and give people playable 2 color Legends in their three colors. Golgari has a bunch of Legends that can be at the helm but also totally good in the deck (Glissa, Varolz, and as it turns out... Sisters). I felt that overdoing it with Legends it would give people more options as they were drafting - "Oh, you are on the 4th pack and you just realized that your 3 color deck is narrowing in on 2 colors? Here, have a General that you can play with those 2 colors!" So far it seems to work okay.
Some color combinations have better Legends than others so I figure that as long as I have 2 of each I can add more as long as they are deck-playable. Teysa 2 was added after the first draft because she doubles as a General and a No Mercy effect. I was going to put in Dread, but it doesn't seem to open up as many options as Teysa 2. Vish Kal is a General, a beater, life gainer, and most importantly: a manaless sac outlet. I think he sucks as a General most of the time, but he is useful elsewhere.
I can see cutting down on multi-color in the future but for now I don't think I will. For me, drafting focused 3 color decks is a challenge and a lot of fun. Part of me would be disappointed if someone went Monocolor I think... it's like they missed out or something. That said, I think that it's one of those conscious choices that I made that I need to not assume was right. I'll see how the others react to it and see if anyone ever tries to force Monochrome. So, if I told you I was thinking about adding the Talisman and Cluestones too you'd disapprove?
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
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StaffThere are a number of camps for EDH Cubing
1) Pre-draft (or more rarely post-draft) your generals from special general-only packs (Dolono and Theogony IX both do this)
2) Bring your own general(s)
3) Generals drafted in packs, but specially denoted (this is the way I do it)
4) Generals fully integrated in packs
I try to run 2-color legends that would fit into 3-color decks. This definitely indicates a lot of the choices I've suggested, like Sigarda over Tolsmir and Zegana over Momir Vig.
As far as multicolor goes, it's really your call. I like having broader monocolored sections as it allows me to squeeze in strategies that otherwise would not make the cut, like more support for Tokens, Voltron, etc. There's also a handful of cards that really scream "EDH", but only really shine in mono-colored decks, like Cabal Coffers, Caged Sun, really any mana-doubling effect. There's generally only one mono drafter at a table, but they can frequently grab all of the doublers for their color and do some pretty spectacular things.
There's also some tremendously powerful mono legends like Azusa, Kiki-jiki, Xiahou Dun, etc that it's great to be able to use.
If you really want more fixing, I'd suggest another cycle or two of duals before adding more mana artifacts. It looks like you currently have Fetches, Shocks, Duals, Filters, and Checklands, you could also try Painlands and Karoos (in that order of preference).
Also, more generic Manafacts are generally better. Rather than cramming in more pair-specific ones, what about Darksteel Ingot, Vessel of Endless Rest, Manalith, Felwar Stone, etc.
Sidenote, I notice you've excluded Sword of Light and Shadow, but are running Sword of Body and Mind? Do you just not have a SoLaS?
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I am too new to be firm on anything, but I have really enjoyed being a #4 guy so far.
There is something fun about hitting a bomb general in Pack 4 and changing colors - or at least seeing if you can. The other ways seem to put too much stock in the general and we tend to run them for color ID first and then their abilities second and this draft method feels natural to that.
I hate Zenaga since she is the most lame and lazy card designed in years
When we were piecing it together we actually wanted to keep the mana doubling out of the box. So, no Mirari's Wake, no Mana Reflection, none of that. Those cards help move the game ahead too fast and we tend to like more grindy destructive games. If it feels like ramp will work without being dominant, absolutely. AND, if I want to push mono-colored, Caged Sun and Gauntlet will be shoe ins.
What if I think that red needs more Land Destruction? The weird part of the games played with the Cube so far has been the absence of Mass Land Destruction - Normally we get lands blown up once or twice a game and now it's like land actually sticks around... and it's weird.
It's in there. Not sure how I missed it. Also, Bant generals.... I own 1
(thanks for the comments too! It's got me thinking about how hard I want 2-3 color decks)
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Some cards to make your radar under such a situation:
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
In multiplayer games those cards can typically ruin a game on their own, but honestly I haven't put any thought into it. We have BlaBraids and Kokushko in there but nobody has tried to General them yet.
There are a few that I think could work...
Mirror is fine. Academy is fine, but I am not spending that kind of money on it
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I've just finished up my own list and did some games last weekend. I remember one game getting dominated by a Sneak Attack fueled Corpse Dance that at one point had him triggering Kokusho multiple times a turn by sacking it to Goblin Bombardment.
Here's some suggestions for you
Sacred Ground - This is a great counter to mass LD and stax strategies as well as answering random Eldrazi.
False Prophet - A rare sweeper on a body and best of all he exiles.
Faith's Reward - Very potent with and against mass LD.
Spore Frog - Cheap rattlesnake card that acts as a backup Spike Weaver. Good in Karador.
Constant Mists - Fog with buyback for defense green decks.
Far Wanderings - It's bad early but threshold doesn't take that long for a lot of decks to achieve.
Creeping Corrosion - Green ramp decks can ramp lands and use this to blow up mana rocks.
Callous Oppressor - He's a bit of a political card. You just have to ask the right person to pick and you can steal everything else.
Volrath's Shapeshifter - If the top card of your graveyard is a creature you get the ETB ability. It's a mini Body Double that provides a discard outlet for just 3 mana.
Aura Thief - I like to combine this guy with Jokulhaups so you gain control of everything that's left over.
Reins of Power - You can steal someone's army to alpha strike with or grab a bunch of blockers and get them killed. Great with free sac outlets too.
Tunnel Vision - I'm playing it with some legitimate uses outside of tucking and killing someone like Living Death or the more comical Planar Birth but the tucking plan is still there.
Shattering Spree/Shattering Pulse - You worried you have too much artifact destruction or something?
Radiate - Not sure if this card will do much or not but I added it.
Wake of Destruction - Land destruction.
Wildfire - Land destruction.
Obliterate - Land destruction.
Greater Gargodon - He's a very cheap and hard to interact with sac outlets that also helps you recover from mass destruction spells.
Warp World - This may be too risky.
Phyrexian Reclamation - Nice recursion card.
Attrition - I wasn't sure if I had enough sac outlets. This one seems pretty good.
Dauthi Embrace - I'm trying this out as a political card but I don't have any data on it. You can use this on opponent's creatures so they can attack each other or your creatures so they can't be blocked.
Mindslicer - He's good with mass destruction spells to make sure people don't have a hand after you've mana screwed them.
Lethal Vapors - This is a great board control card for black that I rarely see. Most people don't want to skip a turn to get rid of it and it can be played around with regen and indestructible creatures.
Black Market - Good with mass destruction because it gives you a lot of mana afterwords.
Spreading Plague - Another board control card for black that is very oppressive for creatures. If someone casts their commander all their non-colorless creatures die and if they cast a non-colorless creature their commander dies. People can also use their creatures to kill other creatures.
Hatred - In addition to being a nice way to kill people with commander damage it goes great with the Infect theme you have here.
Death Cloud - Blows up land and makes them discard their hand.
Pox - Same here though this one is more difficult to use.
Pithing Needle - Just a cheap way to answer some commanders and annoying permanents.
Arena of the Ancients - Colorless voltron stopper.
Myr Retriever - Cheap colorless artifact recursion. There's some other options but I like this one best because it only costs 2.
Jester's Cap - It can help decks that are soft to certain cards and strategies.
Contagion Engine - Infect support and goes with Planeswalkers.
Identity Crisis - Can really cripple people for a reasonable price.
Grim Feast - Can gain a lot of life in multiplayer.
Djinn Illuminatus - Costs a lot of mana and probably sucks but he looks fun.
Memory Plunder - This is my favorite U/B card because it can give me access to effects I can't get in this color combination.
Delirium - I like how you can wait until after someone decides who they're attacking before you use it. R/B doesn't feel very deep compared to the other colors so I'm trying it out.
Mikokoro, Center of the Sea - Card draw for decks that lack it.
Most of these I'm sure you know about but these stood out as the more fringe cards I'm running that I thought might be interesting in your cube.
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StaffYou just straight up don't want Limited Resources in a multiplayer game.
Also, Galspanic, if you want more MLD, here are some options you are missing:
Death Cloud
Pox
Destructive Force
Wildfire
Keldon Firebombers
Obliterate
Decree of Annihilation
Ravages of War
Cataclysm
Catastrophe
Razia's Purification
Natural Balance
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I did just buy these though:
Wildfire
Razia's Purification
Natural Balance
Ravages of War has been on my want list for years, but no way.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
- 7 people showed up with an 8th arriving as we were in Pack 3 of 4.
- He got 8 packs to do a sealed deck instead and it looks like it worked just fine.
-After feeling like red was being under-drafted the last 2 weeks, I made some changes that apparently worked. 6 of 8 used red and I saw red board wipes wrecking the games all night. I saw Boom/Bust, Devastation, Bend or Break twice, and Wildfire all get played in one game.
Generals picked:
- Adun Oakenshield
- Thraximundar
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
- Ghave, Guru of Spores
- Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
- Rith, the Awakener
- Riku, of Two Refelctions
- Maelstrom Wanderer
(me)I know that the other pod played 2 games but I didn't catch much detail. I do know that Thrax had Teferi's Veil out for a while and that seems like a good play to me.
In ours I somehow managed to win both games. In game 1 after getting lands blown up 2-3 times I managed to rebuild, cast Turn / Burn on the guy at 2 who basically set me up to win, and land a Kozilek while the rest of the table was under 10. The deck had Time Spiral, Reforge the Soul, and Windfall and I hit all 3 - which really was a huge reason I was able to pull it off. Also, on a related note, Death Match is amazing. NOTHING stuck around for very long at all. Tarial played that then Goblin Assault and it was a slaughter.
Game 2 started late and after having lands blown up 5 times, 2 Devestation Tides, and one Overloaded Cycloninc Rift I thought that it would never end. But, in a very bizarre sequesnce of events earlier in the game I also won this one with a late game top deck. Early on, I hit Rith and Tariel with a Sword of Body and Mind wielding Shapesharer. I wanted the Wolf token and didn't really care about milling. Riku had a bunch of card draw and was also starting to run low on cards. I kept discarding Kozilek of Ulamog (I really got both?!) and my library had 40+ cards at the end of the game. We spent most of our time preventing Rith's Luminarch Ascension + Seedborn Muse from going off and I was at 2 land. I drew Windfall, looked at my hand, and thought I might be able to draw into some removal for the Ascension if I could draw an Island - which I had a hard time doing all night. I top deck my Island, looked at the libraries, looked at Tariels full hand of cards (because he got stuck on 1 land), and played Windfall while everyone's deck had 5-7 cards left. Boom!
It was not the first time our group has seen Windfall win games - not even close to the first time - but it's funny and sort of lame when the guy who more or less got blown out all game can top deck the 1 card that will instantly kill the table the turn before he was going to get cockpunched by an army of 4/4 Angel tokens.
Anyway.... changes for the pile? I don't know yet. I grabbed a Sigarda to stick in there, but so far it seems to be working well. Tariel was a legit stax deck with Nether Void, Smokestacks, Token makers, and all sorts of stuff to support all that. Yet, I never saw anyone cast their generals but me... and he got tucked fast.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Our table had Thrax(me), Sygg, Ghave, and Adun. Very grindy creature-based games with quite a bit of gy recursion/theft on all sides. The only gy hate played at the table was Deathrite Shaman and he got killed pretty quickly. Also only one wrath played out of two games. Both games ended when all players were below 10 life, so felt pretty balanced. The very last game had 3 players left, 1 at 4 life, me at 2, and the third at 3.
Artifact and especially enchantment hate is a little light. I know I've been first-picking Krosan Grip because I know there are some crippling enchantments and artifacts in the cube. Rack and Ruin saved my butt last night. Especially with stax and pillowfort strategies viable within the cube.
Soltari Visionary would be welcome. Aura Shards for sure. Return to Dust. Maybe some green enchantment board wipes like Primeval Light, but that might be too niche. Or that enchantment that lets you play 1gg to kill all 'other' enchantments.
Elixir of Immortality maybe? People seem to get decked pretty often.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Return to Dust should be there though. I just felt like white was already so removal heavy that I didn't want to go too crazy, but there are about 5 cards in each color that haven't been doing their job.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I'd probably second pick a Soltari Visionary. He's so good in aggro, with a sword, etc. I had been planning on playing either RW or esper aggro this past week, but it wasn't in the cards. I actually took Thrax over SoWaP in my first pack.
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Soltaris seem good but I'd like to sneak your buddy Cephalid Constable in to give blue more enchantment bounce.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Thanks
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Loxodon Gatekeeper
1 Magus of the Tabernacle
1 Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
1 Sun Titan
1 Windborn Muse
1 Armageddon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Austere Command
1 Blind Obedience
1 Cataclysm
1 Catastrophe
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Gideon Jura
1 Gideon, Champion of Justice
1 Humility
1 Kismet
1 Luminarch Acension
1 Renounce the Guilds
1 Gilded Drake
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Devestation Tide
1 Frozen Aether
1 Hinder
1 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, Architect of Will
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Land Equilibrium
1 Propaganda
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Windfall
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Coffin Queen
1 Dark Confidant
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Grave Titan
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Horobi, Death's Wail
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Corpse Dance
1 Death Match
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dismember
1 Exhume
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Necromancy
1 Nether Void
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
1 No Mercy
1 Painful Quandary
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Sorin Markov
1 Spreading Plague
1 Syphon Mind
1 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Welder
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Keldon Firebombers
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Urabrask the Hidden
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Aether Flash
1 Bend or Break
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Boom//Bust
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Chandra, the Firebrand
1 Chaos Warp
1 Devestation
1 Goblin Assault
1 Jokulhaups
1 Manabarbs
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Ruination
1 Stranglehold
1 Tectonic Instability
1 Vandalblast
1 War's Toll
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Wildfire
1 Winds of Change
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Lurking Predators
1 Natural Balance
1 Plow Under
1 Hanna, Ship's Captain
1 Lavinia of the Tenth
1 Venser, the Sojourner
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 Far/Away
1 Sygg, River Cutthroat
1 Whispering Madness
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Pain Magnification
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Dragon Broodmother
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Angel of Despair
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Obzedat's Aid
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts
1 Vindicate
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Assemble the Legion
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Boros Charm
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Razia's Purification
1 Acorn Catapult
1 All is Dust
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Azorius Keyrune
1 Azorius Signet
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
1 Boros Keyrune
1 Boros Signet
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dimir Keyrune
1 Dimir Signet
1 Duplicant
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Forcefield
1 Golgari Keyrune
1 Golgari Signet
1 Gruul Keyrune
1 Gruul Signet
1 Izzet Keyrune
1 Izzet Signet
1 Karn Liberated
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Nuisance Engine
1 Orzhov Keyrune
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Selesnya Keyrune
1 Selesnya Signet
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Simic Keyrune
1 Simic Signet
1 Skullclamp
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Torpor Orb
1 Trading Post
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Winter Orb
1 Wurmcoil Engin
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Strip Mine
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Kher Keep
1 Vault of the Archange
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
The token and removal effects make the sacrifices less symmetrical but are generally good in any deck.
It's bedtime now for me so I'll have another look to compare the list to my cube in the evening (cause I'm currently working night-shifts).
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
Because you are building EDH decks with this, the color identity of the cards makes a huge difference. And really, any of the 3 color combinations can do just fine. Green is the weakest of the colors here, but it supports well.
There is also a big divide is stalling out and wearing away resources so it really depends where on the spectrum you want to fall.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Sphere of Safety
Chancellor of the Annex
Overburden
Mana Vortex
War Tax
Pendrell Mists
Desolation
Tainted Aether
Price of Glory
Tectonic Instability
Thanks
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
Sphere of Safety - It might be some day, but the enchantment count was just a little lower than I would like. I have been watching for how many enchantments are out at any given time and it ~might~ be worth it, but now it looks like people would need to pay 1 or 2 and at 5 mana that's a bit steep. If it looks like people are yanking enchantment decks then I will take out Flagstones of Trokair and add Serra's Sanctum with similar motivations.
Chancellor of the Annex - Because it's a bad card?
Overburden and Tainted Aether - Like the tax effects these tend to be best when stacked and I didn't feel like they would do anything but annoy people most of the time. But, Death Match, Horobi, Death's Wail, and Pandemonium are in and they have the same kind of effect on game states, sooooo maybe?
Mana Vortex and Desolation - They were both in my early versions but I actually don't want too much Land Destruction and seeing that nobody drafted red, red got the land killers.
War Tax - I hate cards that require mana after they resolve and I hate War Tax. I would play it and my mana either went towards War Tax or the cards in my hand, but never both. It's just so counter to what a Pillowfort deck wants to do in practice.
Pendrell Mists - A good card that I would like to squeeze in sometimes, but people haven't been really big on creatures. So, it might cost people 1 or 2 per turn but nothing super flashy. I am sure it will end up in there anyway since I like it.
Price of Glory - Not enough flash or instants to make the cut.
Tectonic Instability - Already in there since day 1
Side note - My second Bant general is now Pheldagriff because **** you.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.