I have been thinking of replacing the curse of deaths hold with it just because it does a lot of what that card does three turns earlier and still offers enchantment destruction and regen for the rare combat situation.
I will try it tomorrow at fnm in the SB and see how it does
Definitely sounds smart. I was looking for a similar effect but at an earlier point in the curve and do not know why I never considered the charm.
Sideboard is shaky at best, but it has some tools. Mutilate, Crypt Incursion, Tragic Slip and Ultimate Price will be boarded in against super aggro matchups, while they will help stall alongside Vampire Nighthawk, Thragtusk, and the lifegain DRS offers. For the control ones, as everybody seems to been having problem with them: With Elixir of Immortality, we negate all their decking plus restart our graveyard. We take out Nighthawks and board in Geralf's Messenger, since that puts a lot of pressure on them. Wolfir Avenger is also a good creature to bring in, as it has flash and regen. With those two, DRS and Lotleth Troll, which is very resilient thanks to regen, we can perfectly take on the beating role while also disrupting them. The other copy of Varolz might help here too. We also have in the MB Liliana, which hurts em bad, and repeatable card draw in the form of Disciple of Bolas. I also consider Grisly Salvage card draw: as Ben said, you're drawing from your own graveyard, and it also feeds DRS with lands to ramp for.
So, first of all, I would like to say that I'm not a skilled pilot for this deck, I usually play Grixis Control, but I thoroughly enjoyed playing this deck. Because I usually play control, I made a control-like version of this deck and it went 4-1 at FNM and I lost my first game in the top 8 to poor shuffling (mull to 5 in game 1 and 2). I don't actually remember the list because I threw it together quickly. It was something like this:
The sideboard was 3x Liliana of the Veil, 2x Vraska, the Unseen because that's what I had on me and 10x Island to fill in the rest. I really like the deck, it's just recurring value and value cards. So fun
Also, the new Ooze from M14 will work well in this deck because some of our favourite cards *cough*Swagtusk*cough* are leaving standard
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Its just about the same deck that we have been testing in this forum...:)
Yeah, I meant, the difference is, this one actually performed well at a major event. Just thought it might be good to consider that list as a launching point for further development (as opposed to arguing over Thragtusk's obvious inclusion).
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Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Yeah, I meant, the difference is, this one actually performed well at a major event. Just thought it might be good to consider that list as a launching point for further development (as opposed to arguing over Thragtusk's obvious inclusion).
Ya I don't understand the Thragtusk debate.... This is actually the 2nd time this list was won a descent size tourney. If, you consider an online ptq big. I agree that this is the list that is most effective that has been talked about on this primer. The biggest question is probably whether or not to mb/sb Deadbridge Chant .
Some choices I made were metagame choices.
Here in my part of the woods, there are many aggro decks running around. I was even one of those piloting an aggro naya humans deck for a while. Hence the inclusion of nighthawk mainboard and the 1 sideboard. He just helps you stabilize and bleed less while you fetch your big guns. Also there are a fair amount of control decks here as well and nighthawk is good for that early game pressure you always want against them before they stabilize.
I also included a full set of farseeks. A little ramp is good because a turn 3 demon against many decks is something they have a hard time dealing with. and with a set of demons and farseeks, this is not hard to do. I've had games, especially against reanimator where I turn 1 kill their mana dork, turn 2 farseek and turn 3 demon when all they have is a lot of nothing. It makes for fast games against them. Also it filters the lands in your deck a little to help you draw into your spells.
Against a Naya Blitz deck, I had a demon out and he tapped it to make it an 8/8 (he did it the turn before too) he had Experiment one, lightning mauler and frontline medic in play. After tapping the demon, i played mutilate for 7, wiping his board. Since we were both topdecking at the time, he topdeck land, which enabled my bad ass demon to swing in for the win! (Side Note: Demons go out against aggro and token decks)
I love the inclusion of the Deadbridge chant because its just a game winner. Ive had games where we were top decking and the board state was blank, and i netted a thragtusk and 5 life to win. Of course against the faster deck this gets boarded out (hilarious when they board in graveyard hate game 2) but against the control decks, this card is a winner IMO.
Last tournament I played with this deck was a GPT that lasted 6 rounds. Unfortunately I dropped round 6 because I had an emergency and had to be somewhere. But the 5 rounds I played, I went a reasonably good 3-2, winning against Naya Blitz, Bant Hexproof and Junk Reanimator. The 2 Losses were against Bant control (because I got mana screwed) and Mono Red (God draw all game) Finished 24th out of 58. Not bad for dropping the last round.
Overall, I am extremely happy with the deck. It is a rouge deck that plays well against other decks. Plus they are not prepared against this deck and you have the tools to beat them. This is a deck I am definitely going to play from now on.
I wanted to mention that the guy who played the deck in Nashville mentioned that he wanted to add 1-2 Garruk Relentless over the 1 he had in the deck. He said it was possibly the most surprisingly good card in the deck this weekend.
I wanted to mention that the guy who played the deck in Nashville mentioned that he wanted to add 1-2 Garruk Relentless over the 1 he had in the deck. He said it was possibly the most surprisingly good card in the deck this weekend.
I saw this as well, am very curious what I would cut for 2+ Garruk.
I think the creature base is perfect as is, and I'm not sure I'd want to cut much removal. Cremate comes to mind, but it's a nice cantrip that helps against MD Junk.
Possibly -1 liliana but Hexproof is getting a ton more popular, and she's a savior in that matchup.
Having a hard time thinking what I'd cut but I'd probably run the list as follows:
I have yet to have an issue with using three forests. It's been better than the slowness of using a gate. And as you can see I use visionary to draw turn2 and chump block and I play the good garruk (argument) who requires three green sources.
I do agree with your accessment of nighthawk. He has been lackluster and ill be removing him.
I have yet to have an issue with using three forests. It's been better than the slowness of using a gate. And as you can see I use visionary to draw turn2 and chump block and I play the good garruk (argument) who requires three green sources.
I do agree with your accessment of nighthawk. He has been lackluster and ill be removing him.
Forests are pretty bad because it messes up things like Messengers and Mutilates. Even when the old Zombie decks at the beginning of the season were splashing red, I always hated putting even one singular mountain in my deck (which was very popular at the time). When you have to wait until 4th turn to play a Messanger and can only then play the Demon or something else turn 5 it makes a huge difference. This is especially true unless you are adding real power cards to the deck that require it, in which case you probably want a traditional B/G mid-ranged, rather than a mono-black-ish w/splash. Adding heavy green and diluting the rest of your deck will result in much less consistency IMO.
First off, many thanks to Ben for sharing so much information regarding this deck. It really is one of the most fun decks to play.
I've been running 2 Golgari Charms in the sb, and testing heavily against Blitz. They have performed magnificently in that matchup, removing the Mayors, which then removes all those now un-buffed x/1's! Also served as a combat trick when opponent wanted to trade with +1'd Messengers only to see them regenerated and ready to attack into his life total next turn. Solid card here.
Gah, I go away for a bit, and a ton of new people come in and post some stuff, a lot of which makes no sense -
Background:
I've been on this deck for months, before this thread was posted - I've been on this thread since page 1, so my insight into the deck is a result of months of testing, online and sweeping FNM victories..
So take it as you will
I understand your reasoning for some of the card choices, which in a vacuum seem like good ideas, but, they just don't turn out that way..
I don't understand what you mean when you say, some of your choices were meta game choices because there is a lot of aggro where you are..
Firstly, the original design of the deck was built to stomp over aggro game 1, yet despite what you've said, you've negated that somewhat and made cuts and inclusions that seem to contradict your desires..
First contradiction:
Mutilate is the reason to run this deck, not any other card, Mutilate - It's the reason why we don't just play Jund, it's the reason we commit to Swamps - Mutilate is the reason to play this deck - So, going down to 2 is baffling, it's the best card against aggro, and is just plain unfair as it will almost always be a one sided wrath that makes supreme verdict look pathetic by comparison..
Vampire Nighthawk is not a good card, it was once, no longer..
Vampire Nighthawk is not pressure against revelation decks, it get's schooled by Frontline Medic -
The occasional Jund deck plays Nighthawk, but this isn't a Jund deck, we play differently -
Actual removal spells are better..
We also don't want Farseek - We don't need to ramp, it can be hard to cast, can be dead in hand, and is a terrible top deck, this space is reserved for Sign in Blood - Sign in blood acts as a pseudo farkseek to draw us into a green source while providing a steady stream of CA. It's good late to draw us gas, and can, every so often, kill your opponent..
T2 is Resevered for Drawing cards or killing creatures..We don't have a high curve, or a mana intensive deck, or the need to fix our colours - Farseek is a waste of a slot
Vraska is terrible in almost every match, bad, bad, bad against aggro - Only good against control, put it in the SB where it belongs..
2 Chant Main is too many..
Costs too much to be relevant in the aggro match up, you don't want this card stuck in your hand early on..
1 is fine, the deck draws a lot of cards over the course of the game, and in the matches where it's at it's best, these games will often take awhile and as such, you'll usually have time to find your one copy..
2nd in the SB if you want it..
2 Putrefy is too many - Clogged your 3 drop slot, early removal is better to put the breaks on aggro decks..
I like devour flesh in the SB
You probably need some Duress
Deathrite Shaman does nothing, don't let it's eternal status fool you, it's not good in this format..
Junk doesn't need it's GY, too slow against aggro, will never beat revelation - So what are you left with? A dead card..
Take them out for something else..
If you want a good walker besides liliana in the MB, then it's most certainly Garruk Relentless..
Don't take out Demon against Aggro, this is a bad idea..If anyone reads anything I've written, let it be this line -
This card is a 6/6 for 4 mana, with evasion - It also happens to say hey look, I'm the Abyss, will turn on morbid at will and make all your other removal much better..
Nothing in your SB comes close to the impact this card will have - Red decks can't kill it, and it will molest their board..
I do think the lifegain against aggro that the nighthawk provides is crucial though. Which is why i experimented with it in the deck. There have been a few games where, yes i hose them with a 6/6 but there are other games, mainly against aggro that i need that crucial life gain to get me to a position where im winning.
Demons out vs aggro i think because they just play a ton of dudes, and when you dont have mutilate, or they do not overextend, then they can just play a dude, Burning Tree for example, play another one then sack the emissary, tap your demon and just attack for lethal. Sure they cant deal with it attacking them for 6 in the air but by turn 4, they theoretically should have you dead that you cant swing with him anymore.
I have been having doubts for deathrites as well. In some instances i wouldve wanted cremates instead of him so i may have to cut him out and replace. I did want duresses but i cut them last minute as i was looking around the room and found many creature based decks. But duress is definitely in my radar and one of the first things i would put in if my meta changes.
Also i have never tried using garruks in the deck. Perhaps youre idea of veaska SB is good for contro. I will definitely experiment tomorrow.
As for sign in blood, i do find the 2 life loss a bit heavy. As i said, my meta is aggro intensive and the 2 life many times can be a bit tasking, which is why i cut the bloods to 2 instead.
I find i do have some success with farseeks though. T3 demon or t4 thrag is an awesome play. In some matchups i cut 1 or 2 of them. so ill test the effectiveness of 0 farseeks as well to see how that goes.
The chant was something that was suggested to me. I do like it MB coz it surprises my opponents most of the time. I do like the surprise factor and the fact that they board in graveyard hate game 2 when i board them out, which gives em dead cards in hand hehe.
After my saturday tourney, which i went 3-2 drop coz inhad to be somewhere important, i was thinking heavily into adding more mutilates MB. I agree they are a one sided wrath most ofnthe time and on occasion kill their creature and hit them for 2 with your messenger. So i probabbly will add a 3rd. I usually start with 2 when building decks and change it up after testing so will test that too.
As for putrefy, i just like it as a kill all spell. You dont need to wait for mornid or a 3cmc or less creature. Just. Kill. Which is why i upped the count to 2. Havent reallyhad a problem with mana clogging at the 3 drop yet so ill wait and see if that happens anytime.
About acidic slime, i was thinking of that as well, the GG is painful. But with my farseeks i never had that problem. I didnt include it in my SB though, not even ghost quarters, as the UB mill strategy hasnt really seen play here.
Thanks for the input though. Now i have a lot of thinking and tweaking before i play!
Should Bant Hexproof continue to rear it's ugly head, we might have to adapt - We already have good options, but we might need more, luckily we have everything we could want in these colours, like Devour Flesh for instance..
Devour flesh has been real sweet coming from the SB even for non bant hexproof decks. Correct me if im wrong but when the blitz deck attacks with medic in play, you can cast devour flesh and when they sac a creature, if they have less than 3 attacking, the indestructible clause does not happen?
But in any case, its still good against many strategies IMO. plus we have liliana MB as well so we should be relatively fine vs the hexproof decks.
Forests are pretty bad because it messes up things like Messengers and Mutilates. Even when the old Zombie decks at the beginning of the season were splashing red, I always hated putting even one singular mountain in my deck (which was very popular at the time). When you have to wait until 4th turn to play a Messanger and can only then play the Demon or something else turn 5 it makes a huge difference. This is especially true unless you are adding real power cards to the deck that require it, in which case you probably want a traditional B/G mid-ranged, rather than a mono-black-ish w/splash. Adding heavy green and diluting the rest of your deck will result in much less consistency IMO.
The reason why im playing a few forests is to be able to cast farseeks easier. This is because i would like to play demon t3 regularly As an option aside from messengers. But as i said, i will be tinkering with removing the farseeks andnseeing how it plays out more.
Lets see how it goes. One thing is for sure, forests, farseeks or not, ill be definitely having fun
I do think the lifegain against aggro that the nighthawk provides is crucial though. Which is why i experimented with it in the deck. There have been a few games where, yes i hose them with a 6/6 but there are other games, mainly against aggro that i need that crucial life gain to get me to a position where im winning.
Demons out vs aggro i think because they just play a ton of dudes, and when you dont have mutilate, or they do not overextend, then they can just play a dude, Burning Tree for example, play another one then sack the emissary, tap your demon and just attack for lethal. Sure they cant deal with it attacking them for 6 in the air but by turn 4, they theoretically should have you dead that you cant swing with him anymore.
I have been having doubts for deathrites as well. In some instances i wouldve wanted cremates instead of him so i may have to cut him out and replace. I did want duresses but i cut them last minute as i was looking around the room and found many creature based decks. But duress is definitely in my radar and one of the first things i would put in if my meta changes.
Also i have never tried using garruks in the deck. Perhaps youre idea of veaska SB is good for contro. I will definitely experiment tomorrow.
As for sign in blood, i do find the 2 life loss a bit heavy. As i said, my meta is aggro intensive and the 2 life many times can be a bit tasking, which is why i cut the bloods to 2 instead.
I find i do have some success with farseeks though. T3 demon or t4 thrag is an awesome play. In some matchups i cut 1 or 2 of them. so ill test the effectiveness of 0 farseeks as well to see how that goes.
The chant was something that was suggested to me. I do like it MB coz it surprises my opponents most of the time. I do like the surprise factor and the fact that they board in graveyard hate game 2 when i board them out, which gives em dead cards in hand hehe.
After my saturday tourney, which i went 3-2 drop coz inhad to be somewhere important, i was thinking heavily into adding more mutilates MB. I agree they are a one sided wrath most ofnthe time and on occasion kill their creature and hit them for 2 with your messenger. So i probabbly will add a 3rd. I usually start with 2 when building decks and change it up after testing so will test that too.
As for putrefy, i just like it as a kill all spell. You dont need to wait for mornid or a 3cmc or less creature. Just. Kill. Which is why i upped the count to 2. Havent reallyhad a problem with mana clogging at the 3 drop yet so ill wait and see if that happens anytime.
About acidic slime, i was thinking of that as well, the GG is painful. But with my farseeks i never had that problem. I didnt include it in my SB though, not even ghost quarters, as the UB mill strategy hasnt really seen play here.
Thanks for the input though. Now i have a lot of thinking and tweaking before i play!
You didn't really take into consideration what Ben said. Desecration demon is an auto 4 of against aggro. Everything he points out is well thought, aggro really isn't a problem for this deck if you draw decently.
Devour flesh has been real sweet coming from the SB even for non bant hexproof decks. Correct me if im wrong but when the blitz deck attacks with medic in play, you can cast devour flesh and when they sac a creature, if they have less than 3 attacking, the indestructible clause does not happen?
But in any case, its still good against many strategies IMO. plus we have liliana MB as well so we should be relatively fine vs the hexproof decks.
If you do it before their attack step. Once battatlion kicks in you can't do anything to stop the ability.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
You didn't really take into consideration what Ben said. Desecration demon is an auto 4 of against aggro. Everything he points out is well thought, aggro really isn't a problem for this deck if you draw decently.
I have taken that into consideration. What I'm saying is i've had trouble with him in the aggro matchups. Which is why he gets boarded out. When I went 3-2, the last match I played was vs aggro and both the games, (lost 0-2) i had demon out and it didn't really matter. Perhaps he just got the god draw and rofl stomped me, but it was with this game and against my own aggo deck (i have a naya blitz deck which i test vs my version) that i personally came to the conclusion that the demon has to sit in the sidelines.
I will though, test the theory out and see. What i have been saying is not all carved in stone, just my opinion and thoughts on the matter
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Definitely sounds smart. I was looking for a similar effect but at an earlier point in the curve and do not know why I never considered the charm.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lotleth Troll
3 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Disciple of Bolas
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Thragtusk
Enchantments (3)
3 Deadbridge Chant
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts (2)
2 Elixir of Immortality
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Putrefy
2 Cremate
Lands (24)
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Grim Backwoods
8 Swamp
6 Forest
3 Mutilate
3 Geralf's Messenger
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Wolfir Avenger
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
2 Tragic Slip
1 Ultimate Price
Sideboard is shaky at best, but it has some tools. Mutilate, Crypt Incursion, Tragic Slip and Ultimate Price will be boarded in against super aggro matchups, while they will help stall alongside Vampire Nighthawk, Thragtusk, and the lifegain DRS offers. For the control ones, as everybody seems to been having problem with them: With Elixir of Immortality, we negate all their decking plus restart our graveyard. We take out Nighthawks and board in Geralf's Messenger, since that puts a lot of pressure on them. Wolfir Avenger is also a good creature to bring in, as it has flash and regen. With those two, DRS and Lotleth Troll, which is very resilient thanks to regen, we can perfectly take on the beating role while also disrupting them. The other copy of Varolz might help here too. We also have in the MB Liliana, which hurts em bad, and repeatable card draw in the form of Disciple of Bolas. I also consider Grisly Salvage card draw: as Ben said, you're drawing from your own graveyard, and it also feeds DRS with lands to ramp for.
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
4x Thragtusk
4x Desecration Demon
3x Lotleth Troll
2x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4x Geralf's Messenger
3x Abrupt Decy
2x Tragic Slip
4x Cremate
3x Mutilate
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetery
2x Golgari Guildgate
2x Fores
12x Swamp
The sideboard was 3x Liliana of the Veil, 2x Vraska, the Unseen because that's what I had on me and 10x Island to fill in the rest. I really like the deck, it's just recurring value and value cards. So fun
Also, the new Ooze from M14 will work well in this deck because some of our favourite cards *cough*Swagtusk*cough* are leaving standard
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_the_rock_with_robbie.html
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Its just about the same deck that we have been testing in this forum...:)
Yeah, I meant, the difference is, this one actually performed well at a major event. Just thought it might be good to consider that list as a launching point for further development (as opposed to arguing over Thragtusk's obvious inclusion).
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Ya I don't understand the Thragtusk debate.... This is actually the 2nd time this list was won a descent size tourney. If, you consider an online ptq big. I agree that this is the list that is most effective that has been talked about on this primer. The biggest question is probably whether or not to mb/sb Deadbridge Chant .
My deck is similar to the one that Top 8'ed the SCG Open this weekend, though I have a few changes.
4 Thragtusk
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Disciple of Bolas
2 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Farseek
2 Mutilate
2 Sign in Blood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Putrefy
2 Tragic Slip
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Vraska the Unseen
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Golgari Guildgate
10 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Appetite for Brains
1 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Mutilate
2 Cremate
2 Underworld Connections
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Devor Flesh
Some choices I made were metagame choices.
Here in my part of the woods, there are many aggro decks running around. I was even one of those piloting an aggro naya humans deck for a while. Hence the inclusion of nighthawk mainboard and the 1 sideboard. He just helps you stabilize and bleed less while you fetch your big guns. Also there are a fair amount of control decks here as well and nighthawk is good for that early game pressure you always want against them before they stabilize.
I also included a full set of farseeks. A little ramp is good because a turn 3 demon against many decks is something they have a hard time dealing with. and with a set of demons and farseeks, this is not hard to do. I've had games, especially against reanimator where I turn 1 kill their mana dork, turn 2 farseek and turn 3 demon when all they have is a lot of nothing. It makes for fast games against them. Also it filters the lands in your deck a little to help you draw into your spells.
Against a Naya Blitz deck, I had a demon out and he tapped it to make it an 8/8 (he did it the turn before too) he had Experiment one, lightning mauler and frontline medic in play. After tapping the demon, i played mutilate for 7, wiping his board. Since we were both topdecking at the time, he topdeck land, which enabled my bad ass demon to swing in for the win! (Side Note: Demons go out against aggro and token decks)
I love the inclusion of the Deadbridge chant because its just a game winner. Ive had games where we were top decking and the board state was blank, and i netted a thragtusk and 5 life to win. Of course against the faster deck this gets boarded out (hilarious when they board in graveyard hate game 2) but against the control decks, this card is a winner IMO.
Last tournament I played with this deck was a GPT that lasted 6 rounds. Unfortunately I dropped round 6 because I had an emergency and had to be somewhere. But the 5 rounds I played, I went a reasonably good 3-2, winning against Naya Blitz, Bant Hexproof and Junk Reanimator. The 2 Losses were against Bant control (because I got mana screwed) and Mono Red (God draw all game) Finished 24th out of 58. Not bad for dropping the last round.
Overall, I am extremely happy with the deck. It is a rouge deck that plays well against other decks. Plus they are not prepared against this deck and you have the tools to beat them. This is a deck I am definitely going to play from now on.
Possibly we can include one or two colorless lands like ghost quarter
I saw this as well, am very curious what I would cut for 2+ Garruk.
I think the creature base is perfect as is, and I'm not sure I'd want to cut much removal. Cremate comes to mind, but it's a nice cantrip that helps against MD Junk.
Possibly -1 liliana but Hexproof is getting a ton more popular, and she's a savior in that matchup.
Having a hard time thinking what I'd cut but I'd probably run the list as follows:
4 Overgrown Tomb
14 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Desecration Demon
2 Disciple of Bolas
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Thragtusk
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mutilate
4 Sign in Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Putrefy
3 Tragic Slip
2 Victim of Night
Acidic Slime in the SB or MB?
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Desecration Demon
3 Thragtusk
3 Tragic Slip
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Sign in Blood
3 Murder
3 Mutilate
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Vraska the Unseen
3 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
13 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
Well perhaps it is time for Dawntreader Elk to shine? Since we run a lot of basics he might not be too bad. Late game he turns on Morbid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I really enjoy reading your posts - good work on putting together such good playtesting results.
I've been trying to play this more myself, tweaked it slightly from the original that I wrote above.
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
14 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Desecration Demon
2 Disciple of Bolas
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Thragtusk
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Deadbridge Chant
3 Mutilate
4 Sign in Blood
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Putrefy
3 Tragic Slip
2 Victim of Night
I've been really enjoying this....
I do agree with your accessment of nighthawk. He has been lackluster and ill be removing him.
Forests are pretty bad because it messes up things like Messengers and Mutilates. Even when the old Zombie decks at the beginning of the season were splashing red, I always hated putting even one singular mountain in my deck (which was very popular at the time). When you have to wait until 4th turn to play a Messanger and can only then play the Demon or something else turn 5 it makes a huge difference. This is especially true unless you are adding real power cards to the deck that require it, in which case you probably want a traditional B/G mid-ranged, rather than a mono-black-ish w/splash. Adding heavy green and diluting the rest of your deck will result in much less consistency IMO.
I've been running 2 Golgari Charms in the sb, and testing heavily against Blitz. They have performed magnificently in that matchup, removing the Mayors, which then removes all those now un-buffed x/1's! Also served as a combat trick when opponent wanted to trade with +1'd Messengers only to see them regenerated and ready to attack into his life total next turn. Solid card here.
I do think the lifegain against aggro that the nighthawk provides is crucial though. Which is why i experimented with it in the deck. There have been a few games where, yes i hose them with a 6/6 but there are other games, mainly against aggro that i need that crucial life gain to get me to a position where im winning.
Demons out vs aggro i think because they just play a ton of dudes, and when you dont have mutilate, or they do not overextend, then they can just play a dude, Burning Tree for example, play another one then sack the emissary, tap your demon and just attack for lethal. Sure they cant deal with it attacking them for 6 in the air but by turn 4, they theoretically should have you dead that you cant swing with him anymore.
I have been having doubts for deathrites as well. In some instances i wouldve wanted cremates instead of him so i may have to cut him out and replace. I did want duresses but i cut them last minute as i was looking around the room and found many creature based decks. But duress is definitely in my radar and one of the first things i would put in if my meta changes.
Also i have never tried using garruks in the deck. Perhaps youre idea of veaska SB is good for contro. I will definitely experiment tomorrow.
As for sign in blood, i do find the 2 life loss a bit heavy. As i said, my meta is aggro intensive and the 2 life many times can be a bit tasking, which is why i cut the bloods to 2 instead.
I find i do have some success with farseeks though. T3 demon or t4 thrag is an awesome play. In some matchups i cut 1 or 2 of them. so ill test the effectiveness of 0 farseeks as well to see how that goes.
The chant was something that was suggested to me. I do like it MB coz it surprises my opponents most of the time. I do like the surprise factor and the fact that they board in graveyard hate game 2 when i board them out, which gives em dead cards in hand hehe.
After my saturday tourney, which i went 3-2 drop coz inhad to be somewhere important, i was thinking heavily into adding more mutilates MB. I agree they are a one sided wrath most ofnthe time and on occasion kill their creature and hit them for 2 with your messenger. So i probabbly will add a 3rd. I usually start with 2 when building decks and change it up after testing so will test that too.
As for putrefy, i just like it as a kill all spell. You dont need to wait for mornid or a 3cmc or less creature. Just. Kill. Which is why i upped the count to 2. Havent reallyhad a problem with mana clogging at the 3 drop yet so ill wait and see if that happens anytime.
About acidic slime, i was thinking of that as well, the GG is painful. But with my farseeks i never had that problem. I didnt include it in my SB though, not even ghost quarters, as the UB mill strategy hasnt really seen play here.
Thanks for the input though. Now i have a lot of thinking and tweaking before i play!
Devour flesh has been real sweet coming from the SB even for non bant hexproof decks. Correct me if im wrong but when the blitz deck attacks with medic in play, you can cast devour flesh and when they sac a creature, if they have less than 3 attacking, the indestructible clause does not happen?
But in any case, its still good against many strategies IMO. plus we have liliana MB as well so we should be relatively fine vs the hexproof decks.
The reason why im playing a few forests is to be able to cast farseeks easier. This is because i would like to play demon t3 regularly As an option aside from messengers. But as i said, i will be tinkering with removing the farseeks andnseeing how it plays out more.
Lets see how it goes. One thing is for sure, forests, farseeks or not, ill be definitely having fun
You didn't really take into consideration what Ben said. Desecration demon is an auto 4 of against aggro. Everything he points out is well thought, aggro really isn't a problem for this deck if you draw decently.
If you do it before their attack step. Once battatlion kicks in you can't do anything to stop the ability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I have taken that into consideration. What I'm saying is i've had trouble with him in the aggro matchups. Which is why he gets boarded out. When I went 3-2, the last match I played was vs aggro and both the games, (lost 0-2) i had demon out and it didn't really matter. Perhaps he just got the god draw and rofl stomped me, but it was with this game and against my own aggo deck (i have a naya blitz deck which i test vs my version) that i personally came to the conclusion that the demon has to sit in the sidelines.
I will though, test the theory out and see. What i have been saying is not all carved in stone, just my opinion and thoughts on the matter