Well first of you missed the point I was trying to make about Sephiroth. He is a central point that all the issues that threaten the world come together at Shinra, jenova and hojo, all the threads tie to him. Most of the characters have a problem with one of these three that being unifying element in the group not Cloud. They follow him based on his strength in combat initially with the fights that you take part in against the various evil entities in the game being a point of camaraderie within the group. While not explicitly in the narrative in the story I have always felt as implied and thought it was better left that way as constantly saying something like Yuna and Tidus being in love is far more hollow. If you choose to remove action sequences your in control of from the games narrative then so be it.
You also identified part of the issue with seeing the entire character arcs within the game as it starts in act two (a.k.a action sequence) to see the entire change you need to include the background stories they give.
Have you ever watched seen superhero shows such as the X-men? While episodes might focus on a character the overall story is that of the team and their struggles against evil. You can see a very similar setup with the story in FF7 and when you learn about the backgrounds and the events that led to them joining your team. Heck there is even a short portion your forced to play the game without cloud as a choice of character.
I'm well aware of the meaning of dire straights and at least in the united states Jrpgs aren't doing nearly as well as they used to with major titles flopping extremely hard such as FF13 and 14.
Well first of you missed the point I was trying to make about Sephiroth. He is a central point that all the issues that threaten the world come together at Shinra, jenova and hojo, all the threads tie to him.
So what you're saying is that all the issues come together at Sephiroth, Shinra, Jenova, Hojo, the fat guy that Cloud cross-dresses for, and every other character harming themselves?
... So that means the issues don't come together at all then, doesn't it?
Most of the characters have a problem with one of these three that being unifying element in the group not Cloud.
Then what you're saying is there is no unifying element.
They follow him based on his strength in combat initially with the fights that you take part in against the various evil entities in the game being a point of camaraderie within the group.
What camaraderie? Again, one of the characters dies and no character development is achieved at all as a result.
The characters band together purely out of a convention that says they will inherent in video games. They have no reason to form a party, nor do they ever behave like one.
You also identified part of the issue with seeing the entire character arcs within the game as it starts in act two (a.k.a action sequence) to see the entire change you need to include the background stories they give.
No, the whole point of a story is that the character changes within the duration of the story. The events of the movie Casablanca take place over a small span of time. They bring in backstory from Rick's past, specifically what happened in Paris, but the events of the story are what happens to Rick during those days in Casablanca, and how Rick changes during that time.
If you say that you can't find a character journey within that span of time, it means there isn't one.
Have you ever watched seen superhero shows such as the X-men? While episodes might focus on a character the overall story is that of the team and their struggles against evil.
Except a team is a bunch of individual characters behaving like a family, and for a team to grow they would each have to be defined as separate characters and each grow as a result of their shared experiences.
This does not happen in Final Fantasy VII. Some characters, Tifa in particular, remain stock throughout the entire game. Other characters have clear character arcs but are entirely irrelevant to the story (Red XIII, Cid). At no point do the characters act as a party, at no point do their characters change as a result of knowing each other.
We do not have a party here, we have a bunch of characters that do things that happen next to each other. There's a difference.
I'm well aware of the meaning of dire straights and at least in the united states Jrpgs aren't doing nearly as well as they used to with major titles flopping extremely hard such as FF13 and 14.
That makes no sense. How would FFVII being a not-successful game as opposed to a successful one make the situation for JRPGs any better?
Not to mention I've stated that I believe FFVII marked the introduction of trends into the franchise that would mark its downward spiral. Square committed to trying to be epic instead of trying to tell a story well, and the result is just a debacle.
I've Loved FFVII since I was 5 years old, and may be blind to many of its inadequacies, but I still Love it. It is definitely one of my favourite games of all time. And I am an Aeris fanboy
Other honourable mentions include Dark Chronicle, also known as Dark Cloud 2. This game got kind of skipped over, as there were many great games available on the PS2 (best console in my opinion as well) at the time. There is a reason it still sells for ~$30 lol
Also, I've spent countless hours playing Digimon World. I Loved the show as a kid (and still watch it I recently introduced my 9 year old brother to it, and he started complaining about how TV today sucks). For me, this game is clunky at times, but gives me so much control over everything! I Love it to this day, and download emulators to play my old copy
Can we count collections? If so, Metroid Prime Trilogy is pretty boss. It upped the difficulty of the bosses in Prime and Prime 3, and it had some really great aiming controls. Plus, all three of the Prime games in one? That's awesome!
Single games only? Metroid Prime. The game's only real flaws are the aiming controls, which aren't bad, but aren't nearly as good as the Prime Trilogy controls, and the backtracking at the end, which isn't even that bad if you try to use the log hints and are observant. Everything else is sublime.
Can we count collections? If so, Metroid Prime Trilogy is pretty boss. It upped the difficulty of the bosses in Prime and Prime 3, and it had some really great aiming controls. Plus, all three of the Prime games in one? That's awesome!
Single games only? Metroid Prime. The game's only real flaws are the aiming controls, which aren't bad, but aren't nearly as good as the Prime Trilogy controls, and the backtracking at the end, which isn't even that bad if you try to use the log hints and are observant. Everything else is sublime.
Super Metroid also deserves mention.
I like the Prime trilogy, but I put Super Metroid above them. If it has flaws, I don't know of them. I'm intrigued by increased difficulty in the bosses, I think one of my buddies owns the collection. I'll have to check that out once I'm finished with The Force Unleashed II.
I like the Prime trilogy, but I put Super Metroid above them. If it has flaws, I don't know of them. I'm intrigued by increased difficulty in the bosses, I think one of my buddies owns the collection. I'll have to check that out once I'm finished with The Force Unleashed II.
Several of the Metroid Prime 2 bosses were definitely made easier (Most notably Boosty), but I believe some of the Prime bosses were made harder.
Maybe it's just the controls switch. You can still play on hard mode in those games (Although it's now called hyper mode because of Prime 3).
I'd count Super Metroid as good as Prime, but there's some things I just don't like about Super Metroid, like the final boss being a walk in the park and getting boring after the first time (Oh look, Mother Brain is getting up again... Oh no, she's frying me... Oh look, there's the baby Metroid... Can we just get this over with?).
I'd count Super Metroid as good as Prime, but there's some things I just don't like about Super Metroid, like the final boss being a walk in the park and getting boring after the first time (Oh look, Mother Brain is getting up again... Oh no, she's frying me... Oh look, there's the baby Metroid... Can we just get this over with?).
I'd call that a fault of experience. It takes excellent writing chops to make a story that is as or more gripping with retellings. And in terms of video games, bosses will always get easier (unless you unlock a higher difficultly level).
What I like about the Metroid series as a whole, is the skill based movement/shooting lets you almost abuse the game mechanics. I think Super Metroid pins that down perfectly in the 2D realm. The Prime games have excellent 3D platforming, but the controls aren't quite as tight. Could just be dealing with the third dimension, dunno, at least they are heads and tails above the platforming segments in other 3D games.
Wow, this is sort of like arguing the best album of all time. What works for one person's preferences won't for another.
Unfortunately we'd really have to widdle it down to a popular vote with players who've grown up with VGs and have played enough to be able to compare a wide variety.
I had to look up Boosty. Is it that little spider-crab guy that rolls around the tiny room?
Boosty is my personal nickname for the Boost-Ball Guardian. He's the miniboss who looks like a normal Warrior Ing and transforms into a ball to zip around his arena at VERY high speed. He's found in the Dark Torvus Bog.
He's infamously difficult because 1. You constantly lose health in his arena, 2. He does high damage, 3. He's hard to avoid when he goes into boostball form, 4. He spawns little guys to attack you, and 5. The only health sources are the little guys who attack you, and the pillars that he may break at the beginning of the fight before you can use them.
Him and the Spider-Ball guardian are generally considered the hardest bosses in the entire Metroid series. They were the only two bosses made easier in Prime Trilogy.
1. Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time
2. Resident Evil 4
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Pokemon Gold or Silver Version
5. Final Fantasy VI
6. Metroid Prime 2
7. Super Mario 64
8. Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past
9. Chrono Trigger
10. Super Mario Bros (NES version)
Boosty is my personal nickname for the Boost-Ball Guardian. He's the miniboss who looks like a normal Warrior Ing and transforms into a ball to zip around his arena at VERY high speed. He's found in the Dark Torvus Bog.
He's infamously difficult because 1. You constantly lose health in his arena, 2. He does high damage, 3. He's hard to avoid when he goes into boostball form, 4. He spawns little guys to attack you, and 5. The only health sources are the little guys who attack you, and the pillars that he may break at the beginning of the fight before you can use them.
Him and the Spider-Ball guardian are generally considered the hardest bosses in the entire Metroid series. They were the only two bosses made easier in Prime Trilogy.
Yeah, we're thinking of the same bugger. I did die something on the order of 3 or 4 times on Boosty, but wasn't the Spider-Ball boss that little bug thing that just moved around the magnetic strips while you in the morph ball maze? I remember it taking a while to time my attacks correctly, but I thought that was pretty well balanced by the ease of evasion.
Man, I'm getting an itch to play some Metroid now. I haven't played any of the gameboy titles since Metroid II, do you have any opinions on which ones are worth picking up?
But seriously, I've played a lot of the games mentioned in this thread, and none of them have come close to Morrowind in regard to the amount of hours I've played, the memories, and the feel of the game. The game came out a decade ago, and I still want to play it everyday (though I don't).
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You also identified part of the issue with seeing the entire character arcs within the game as it starts in act two (a.k.a action sequence) to see the entire change you need to include the background stories they give.
Have you ever watched seen superhero shows such as the X-men? While episodes might focus on a character the overall story is that of the team and their struggles against evil. You can see a very similar setup with the story in FF7 and when you learn about the backgrounds and the events that led to them joining your team. Heck there is even a short portion your forced to play the game without cloud as a choice of character.
I'm well aware of the meaning of dire straights and at least in the united states Jrpgs aren't doing nearly as well as they used to with major titles flopping extremely hard such as FF13 and 14.
So what you're saying is that all the issues come together at Sephiroth, Shinra, Jenova, Hojo, the fat guy that Cloud cross-dresses for, and every other character harming themselves?
... So that means the issues don't come together at all then, doesn't it?
Then what you're saying is there is no unifying element.
What camaraderie? Again, one of the characters dies and no character development is achieved at all as a result.
The characters band together purely out of a convention that says they will inherent in video games. They have no reason to form a party, nor do they ever behave like one.
No, the whole point of a story is that the character changes within the duration of the story. The events of the movie Casablanca take place over a small span of time. They bring in backstory from Rick's past, specifically what happened in Paris, but the events of the story are what happens to Rick during those days in Casablanca, and how Rick changes during that time.
If you say that you can't find a character journey within that span of time, it means there isn't one.
Except a team is a bunch of individual characters behaving like a family, and for a team to grow they would each have to be defined as separate characters and each grow as a result of their shared experiences.
This does not happen in Final Fantasy VII. Some characters, Tifa in particular, remain stock throughout the entire game. Other characters have clear character arcs but are entirely irrelevant to the story (Red XIII, Cid). At no point do the characters act as a party, at no point do their characters change as a result of knowing each other.
We do not have a party here, we have a bunch of characters that do things that happen next to each other. There's a difference.
That makes no sense. How would FFVII being a not-successful game as opposed to a successful one make the situation for JRPGs any better?
Not to mention I've stated that I believe FFVII marked the introduction of trends into the franchise that would mark its downward spiral. Square committed to trying to be epic instead of trying to tell a story well, and the result is just a debacle.
And as a relatively unrelated aside, I think your sig is funny considering the amount of time you spend on FF7 in these parts.
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Well that lasted for all of one post.
the awesome level of customization in these two games is unsurpassed, and they're just the most fun i've ever had playing video games.
Thanks to Spiderboy4 @ High~Light Studios for the banner and avatar!
Let your daughters date me. I want them for their BRAINS!!
I'm A [POKEMON MASTER]!
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Seshiro the Anointed
:symg::symb: Savra, Queen of the Golgari :symb::symg::
I gave it a shot. But this is a community, we're here to chat after all. Help me out
nextthis time.:p@Pinsir: Have you played multiplayer Tactics on the PSP? It is more fun than games have any right to be.
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Other honourable mentions include Dark Chronicle, also known as Dark Cloud 2. This game got kind of skipped over, as there were many great games available on the PS2 (best console in my opinion as well) at the time. There is a reason it still sells for ~$30 lol
Also, I've spent countless hours playing Digimon World. I Loved the show as a kid (and still watch it I recently introduced my 9 year old brother to it, and he started complaining about how TV today sucks). For me, this game is clunky at times, but gives me so much control over everything! I Love it to this day, and download emulators to play my old copy
Single games only? Metroid Prime. The game's only real flaws are the aiming controls, which aren't bad, but aren't nearly as good as the Prime Trilogy controls, and the backtracking at the end, which isn't even that bad if you try to use the log hints and are observant. Everything else is sublime.
Super Metroid also deserves mention.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
I like the Prime trilogy, but I put Super Metroid above them. If it has flaws, I don't know of them. I'm intrigued by increased difficulty in the bosses, I think one of my buddies owns the collection. I'll have to check that out once I'm finished with The Force Unleashed II.
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Maybe it's just the controls switch. You can still play on hard mode in those games (Although it's now called hyper mode because of Prime 3).
I'd count Super Metroid as good as Prime, but there's some things I just don't like about Super Metroid, like the final boss being a walk in the park and getting boring after the first time (Oh look, Mother Brain is getting up again... Oh no, she's frying me... Oh look, there's the baby Metroid... Can we just get this over with?).
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
I'd call that a fault of experience. It takes excellent writing chops to make a story that is as or more gripping with retellings. And in terms of video games, bosses will always get easier (unless you unlock a higher difficultly level).
What I like about the Metroid series as a whole, is the skill based movement/shooting lets you almost abuse the game mechanics. I think Super Metroid pins that down perfectly in the 2D realm. The Prime games have excellent 3D platforming, but the controls aren't quite as tight. Could just be dealing with the third dimension, dunno, at least they are heads and tails above the platforming segments in other 3D games.
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Unfortunately we'd really have to widdle it down to a popular vote with players who've grown up with VGs and have played enough to be able to compare a wide variety.
http://videogamegeek.com/
This rating system is based on the user's ratings averaged out. I think we can all look at the top 20-50 and see some WTF titles:
http://videogamegeek.com/browse/videogame
He's infamously difficult because 1. You constantly lose health in his arena, 2. He does high damage, 3. He's hard to avoid when he goes into boostball form, 4. He spawns little guys to attack you, and 5. The only health sources are the little guys who attack you, and the pillars that he may break at the beginning of the fight before you can use them.
Him and the Spider-Ball guardian are generally considered the hardest bosses in the entire Metroid series. They were the only two bosses made easier in Prime Trilogy.
Thanks to Syndarion of Aeternal Studios for my sig!
Otherwise, you can't really discuss it all without breaking into genre and possibly date range or decade. In the end, it's all opinions...
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=4557651&postcount=1
TheWarden's Creative Commons Music Pick Project (Retired):
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=336498
1. Legend of Zelda, Ocarina of Time
2. Resident Evil 4
3. Metal Gear Solid
4. Pokemon Gold or Silver Version
5. Final Fantasy VI
6. Metroid Prime 2
7. Super Mario 64
8. Legend of Zelda, A Link to the Past
9. Chrono Trigger
10. Super Mario Bros (NES version)
These ten are all tied up in my list for best.
Life is Bad
On what possible basis can anyone say that Donkey Kong Country sucks? DKC 3, ok. DK 64, entirely appropriate. But 1 and 2 are fantastic!
InfinityAlarm: Out of curiosity, have you played Mother 3 yet? I need someone to talk to about this game, and you're already an Earthbound fan.
Man, I'm getting an itch to play some Metroid now. I haven't played any of the gameboy titles since Metroid II, do you have any opinions on which ones are worth picking up?
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thanks to DNC of Heroes of the Plane Studios for the coolest sig
vintage-WBdark timesBW
legacy-BGRJund-51/60BGR
RBBob Sligh 48/60BR
GRone land belcherRG
URBTES-54/60URB
Fun deck-BBBBKobolds stormBBBB
Yah....I'm a fanboy.;)
But seriously, I've played a lot of the games mentioned in this thread, and none of them have come close to Morrowind in regard to the amount of hours I've played, the memories, and the feel of the game. The game came out a decade ago, and I still want to play it everyday (though I don't).
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G