Does affirmative action over step that fine line or has it gotten too aged to do as it was intended.
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I am opposed to these laws, and I favor more "color blind" legislation.
Debate.
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Affirmative Action is just another example of a great idea that went on too long and got too abused. Just like unions, home owner's associations, PETA, and most other forms of bureaucracy.
Most of the glass ceilings have been broken including the major one with BHO, so I really don't think we need it. We certainly do still need a civil rights arm of the government but realigned totally. The Black Caucus and other remnants need to be updated and expanded to look at poverty in general rather than just one minority or this minority. The only exception I would have are perhaps the NCIA only because tribes have some really very unique situation that would justify being racially fixated.
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Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Most of the glass ceilings have been broken including the major one with BHO, so I really don't think we need it. We certainly do still need a civil rights arm of the government but realigned totally. The Black Caucus and other remnants need to be updated and expanded to look at poverty in general rather than just one minority or this minority. The only exception I would have are perhaps the NCIA only because tribes have some really very unique situation that would justify being racially fixated.
I think you make the most sense out of anyone in the history of anything.:)
Private Mod Note
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In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Its a lot worse than just being "too old" and "no longer needed". Its become divisive and is causing a whole new generation of racial tension and hatred.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Its a lot worse than just being "too old" and "no longer needed". Its become divisive and is causing a whole new generation of racial tension and hatred.
It's the economy of the 30-50 year old, the person that has "enough experience" but not "too old" or "too expensive." Experienced older workers are sloughing around and upgrading jobs, the eldest workers between 55-65 in that coridoor before retirement are in a real pickle. However, there's a number of those that are starting new businesses with capital and social connections which is a good thing in the long run if those businesses expand during the next uptick. Which for some companies in smaller markets prove to be their undoing, as there have been stories over the years of laid off workers ending up destroying their old competitors.
The issue I feel is that we have too few jobs with too many workers, and that we're not doing anything to retrain workers so the joblessness will be extended farther into the future longer than it has to be. Really the decrease in defense spending in tandem with a lack of infrastructure spending and costs rising not falling (Asian demand, among other things) aren't going to go well for the American worker.
A part of the older worker problem are two fold:
1. Legitimately some workers can't do their old job and need retrained
2. Some older workers jobs no longer exist
The rest are just downsizing that's often myopic, my favorite is always laying off the one guy that actually knows how something actually works, hiring two guys to do that one guy's job, and **** is a mess and you're not saving any money. Meanwhile waiting until the one guy was about to retire or close to retire, then have him train the next guy under him, and keep that guy on later for other work as a contractor when retirement comes around.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
If defined as "policies that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination". Then yes, Affirmative Action policies are necessary. If we look at the Black community we can clearly see that there are uniquely Black issues that need to be addressed.
I draw your attention to the statistics dealing with H.I.V.,Incarceration, High School drop out rates, single motherhood and Black on Black violence and Heart Disease/Stroke fatalities.
Most of these are due to the unhealthy and unfortunate cultural habits Blacks developed due to centuries of poor education, emasculation (of Men),objectification(of Women),poverty,terrorism and racism.
In fact, Many Black communities are just as bad off if not worse off in than they were before the Civil Rights Act was passed in many ways. Most of the material gains have been lost.
I do believe that the Government does owe the Black community an earnest attempt to solve these issues in a way that Black people will actually be receptive to.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
I also think Affirmative Action should address class issues as well I don't believe that a middle class Black person should be chosen over a poor white person. It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them. Still, I believe that poor Black communities are in more need of Government attention than poor White communities.
If defined as "policies that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination". Then yes, Affirmative Action policies are necessary. If we look at the Black community we can clearly see that there are uniquely Black issues that need to be addressed.
I draw your attention to the statistics dealing with H.I.V.,Incarceration, High School drop out rates, single motherhood and Black on Black violence and Heart Disease/Stroke fatalities.
Most of these are due to the unhealthy and unfortunate cultural habits Blacks developed due to centuries of poor education, emasculation (of Men),objectification(of Women),poverty,terrorism and racism.
In fact, Many Black communities are just as bad off if not worse off in than they were before the Civil Rights Act was passed in many ways. Most of the material gains have been lost.
I do believe that the Government does owe the Black community an earnest attempt to solve these issues in a way that Black people will actually be receptive to.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
I also think Affirmative Action should address class issues as well I don't believe that a middle class Black person should be chosen over a poor white person. It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them. Still, I believe that poor Black communities are in more need of Government attention than poor White communities.
Part of the issue is the government itself. It's not a question at this point of "How can the government help", as much as many people want it to be. The truth is that the government, in many ways, is responsible for how everything is happening.
It's a political problem, really, that deals with the partisanship. Republicans and conservatives in general are seen as "racist". In fact, I have seen people such as Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow - two very prominent liberals - say that anyone who doesn't agree with President Obama is "racist". In fact, after the South Carolina debate, Chris Matthews said using Juan Williams' name "in the way he did" was racist.
"That use of the name ‘Juan,’ the way he did it. You can’t argue these things. You either see them or you don’t. It’s just the way he did that. I sensed a little applause when he said ‘Let me help you’ when he answered the Juan question. It’s in the eye of the beholder. And, by the way, calling someone a racist is the worst way to get them to stop being racist because everyone gets defensive. … So it’s stupid to say it but, honestly, if you notice it, you sort of ought to blow the whistle. Because there is a dog whistle going on here.” - Chris Matthews
I caught nothing racist in using his name. Hell had I been the commentator and he said, "Well, Patrick..." I would have been okay with it. Hell, had he said, "Well, Patrick Michael..." I would have been all, "OH CRAP HE'S CHANNELING THE NUNS FROM PAROCHIAL SCHOOL FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU".
All joking aside, the problem is that for everything, if there's no real response from a person of minority and they don't want to lose, they pull the race card. Case in point: Attorney General Eric Holder claims that Congress and many of his detractors are racist.
“This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” - Eric Holder
These comments were said to the New York Times when they were talking specifically about Operation Fast and Furious, the failed gunrunning program that let 2,000 rifles and pistols leave the U.S. and enter the hands of the Mexican drug cartels, specifically the Sinaloa.
I'm not trying to trivialize racism. I believe there is an inherent problem with racism in our culture. But this comes from everyone, really. We're racist against each other, not because of skin color only. Affirmative action was passed with the best of intentions, but racism isn't only strengthened when no one confronts it. The Democrats are just as racist as Republicans, blacks can be just as racist as whites, and the list goes on.
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"The above post is the opinion of the poster and is not indicative of any stance taken by the President of the United States, Congress, the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the Department of the Navy, or the United States Marine Corps."
If defined as "policies that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination". Then yes, Affirmative Action policies are necessary. If we look at the Black community we can clearly see that there are uniquely Black issues that need to be addressed.
I draw your attention to the statistics dealing with H.I.V.,Incarceration, High School drop out rates, single motherhood and Black on Black violence and Heart Disease/Stroke fatalities.
Most of these are due to the unhealthy and unfortunate cultural habits Blacks developed due to centuries of poor education, emasculation (of Men),objectification(of Women),poverty,terrorism and racism.
In fact, Many Black communities are just as bad off if not worse off in than they were before the Civil Rights Act was passed in many ways. Most of the material gains have been lost.
I do believe that the Government does owe the Black community an earnest attempt to solve these issues in a way that Black people will actually be receptive to.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
I also think Affirmative Action should address class issues as well I don't believe that a middle class Black person should be chosen over a poor white person. It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them. Still, I believe that poor Black communities are in more need of Government attention than poor White communities.
the problem with this is rap and hip hop are a big part of this. All of this thug life and bs and the media has just been fanning the flames. Not all of this is their fault, but a lot is. I am a poor white american, and my situation is partially my fault, and partially not, but I don't go running around in a gang knocking up 16 year olds and thinking my life style is cool.
Plenty of African-Americans are doing just as well as white people. I mean look in professional sports. I was watching sports center the other day and the anchors were wondering when the next white prodigy was going to come around because we have had so many African American superstars and no White-American superstars.(in NBA) Sports has bridged this gap now if society and the media will just give up on racism we can all more forward. It is sad that rap music has created this stereotype and people feel that they gotta live it out.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
If defined as "policies that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination". Then yes, Affirmative Action policies are necessary. If we look at the Black community we can clearly see that there are uniquely Black issues that need to be addressed.
I draw your attention to the statistics dealing with H.I.V.,Incarceration, High School drop out rates, single motherhood and Black on Black violence and Heart Disease/Stroke fatalities.
Most of these are due to the unhealthy and unfortunate cultural habits Blacks developed due to centuries of poor education, emasculation (of Men),objectification(of Women),poverty,terrorism and racism.
In fact, Many Black communities are just as bad off if not worse off in than they were before the Civil Rights Act was passed in many ways. Most of the material gains have been lost.
I do believe that the Government does owe the Black community an earnest attempt to solve these issues in a way that Black people will actually be receptive to.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
I also think Affirmative Action should address class issues as well I don't believe that a middle class Black person should be chosen over a poor white person. It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them. Still, I believe that poor Black communities are in more need of Government attention than poor White communities.
Affirmative action truely fixes none of these things. Many poor white people might identify with blacks based on income levels, but they don't because blacks don't identify with them. Racial tensions are higher the lower down the poverty scale you go. You don't hear about CEO's worried the Mexicans will take thier jobs. You hear that from people working day to day in the field.
Affirmative Action, like all government programs of this sort are about control. Read Bill Maxwell regarding his views on why Blacks haven't come as far as they should. Government dependancy is a huge factor.
Private Mod Note
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
the problem with this is rap and hip hop are a big part of this. All of this thug life and bs and the media has just been fanning the flames. Not all of this is their fault, but a lot is. I am a poor white american, and my situation is partially my fault, and partially not, but I don't go running around in a gang knocking up 16 year olds and thinking my life style is cool.
Plenty of African-Americans are doing just as well as white people. I mean look in professional sports. I was watching sports center the other day and the anchors were wondering when the next white prodigy was going to come around because we have had so many African American superstars and no White-American superstars.(in NBA) Sports has bridged this gap now if society and the media will just give up on racism we can all more forward. It is sad that rap music has created this stereotype and people feel that they gotta live it out.
You have to put the problem in perspective. 60% of the people who buy rap music are white http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111521814339424546,00.html
This means that white people (suburban white youth in particular) have a drastic impact on the content of rap music that becomes popular. They don't want to hear "conscious" rap music, so corporate executives are not looking for those kinds of artists. Everyday white people consume negative rap music through requesting it on the radio, watching it on youtube, buying albums and attending concerts, then turn around and have the same beliefs that you do while ignoring their own participation in the system. White parents do the same too,standing by or facilitating the consumption of negative rap by their children, often because the only rap they have heard of is what is popular. The day that the majority of white parents can say "don't listen to that garbage, here is some GOOD hip hop" will be a great day for music. But most white parents dismiss the entire art form as well as the communities the music comes from, yet still participate in it's consumption too. The trend continues for Whites in their 20's as well.
Now with that context, if you are a black youth who is poor and has had little guidance to put your life in social or historical perspective you have the chance to make millions by participating in a modern day minstrel show. Do you take the more "conscious" route or the one that will make you money? This is not to take blame off of the Black community, but white people need to realize the ENORMOUS impact they have had(and will continue to have) on the evolution of modern, popular rap, and the stereotypes that have been perpetuated about Blacks and in many cases internalized by Black youths.
The focus on Sports as a means to success is deeply problematic for the Black community it encourages young black males to adopt a high risk high reward model of success at the expense of education at the high school and college levels. NBA players don't influence policies or write laws(politicians or lawyers), NBA players don't help invent new technologies(engineers and scientists), NBA players aren't trained to properly educate youth(Teachers and Professors). The aspirations of so many Black youth are too narrow and unrealistic. "I want to spend my life dribbling a basket ball or talking about being a criminal" most people won't get too far with that, and thus the cycle continues.
@the_Cardfather
I think that current Affirmative Action policies are deeply flawed. They view Racism as dealing with intentions rather than as a systemic problem that has been evolving for centuries. The problem is incredibly delicate and complex and it's going to take much more than "Hire that middle class black guy" to fix the problem. Like I said earlier, the reason that poor whites and poor blacks don't identify with one another is due to racism. European immigrants who had little in common with wealthy whites back home suddenly found that they gained immense economic, social and psychological privileges by identifying with them. There used to be a saying that "One of the first words you learn when you get off the boat is ******." This relationship between lower and upper-class whites in our society has been deeply exploitative, racism has been a huge part of this. Poor whites have often not advocated for deep systemic change because 1.undeserving brown people might benefit or 2. A brown face is used to distract whites with band-aid solutions.(Illegal Immigration is not the problem, it's deeper.)
I've read Maxwell, and he has an accurate grasps of the the problems the Black community faces and he is right that we need to take control of our own communities. However, look at this statement:
"Many low-income black parents, especially uneducated single mothers, are unprepared to effectively teach their children. To be effective, parents must spend what experts call “quality time” with their children. The 1995 study “Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experiences of Young American Children” shows that the vocabularies of children of parents on welfare were smaller than those of children of professionals by an average of 1,537 words by age 3, primarily because professional parents naturally hold more positive and complex conversations with their children.
“The effects on future student academic achievement are very large — differences among children at entry into kindergarten in the skills that are a product of the home environment are more powerful predictors of future academic achievement than variables under the control of K-12,” Grover Whitehurst, an expert on parental involvement with the Brown Center on Education Policy at the Brookings Institution, told Education Week during a recent interview.
I was encouraged that recent census numbers show that more low-income black parents are involved in their children’s education than a decade ago, this is in large part because of federal programs such as Reach Out and Read, Early Reading First and Reading is Fundamental.
A problem now is that funding for these programs has been slashed. Federal funding or not, black parents have a duty to be their children’s first teacher. Until they understand and practice this universal concept, their children will continue to lag behind."
He admits that federal programs have helped Black parents educate their children,admits it's a problem that these programs have been slashed, then says that somehow without these programs the Black community has to magically do it on their own despite the fact that "Many low-income black parents, especially uneducated single mothers, are unprepared to effectively teach their children." When a child's mother is 17, she needs help learning how to effectively educate and rear her child. If her mother is equally unqualified, she has no one to turn to. Black people taking the initiative and government assistance are not mutually exclusive, but equally necessary.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60s and 70s, yet the government understandably resisted the Black power movement and actively worked to destroy it in rather insidious ways. The government can't demand Blacks to "do it on our own" then actively work to destroy the efforts we attempt. If the government wants to influence the development of the Black community, we there has to be a collaborative vision and financial backing.
hold up what? So your blaming white people for the influence that rappers have on black people? Maybe if society didn't allow the kind of crap(the negative stuff fyi) to get into their child's heads then this would not happen. I am a parent and I am not constantly putting anything negative into my children's heads. Some of the stuff I listen too might be too much for a child to understand, but I don't listen to it around them just like I don't watch dirty movies around them. Parents need to step up and stop blaming outside influences most of which the can control.
Also AA doesn't fix these problems it actually just compounds them by causing racial tension.
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
Albert Einstein
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
hold up what? So your blaming white people for the influence that rappers have on black people? Maybe if society didn't allow the kind of crap(the negative stuff fyi) to get into their child's heads then this would not happen. I am a parent and I am not constantly putting anything negative into my children's heads. Some of the stuff I listen too might be too much for a child to understand, but I don't listen to it around them just like I don't watch dirty movies around them. Parents need to set up and stop blaming outside influences most of which the can control.
Also AA doesn't fix these problems it actually just compounds them by causing racial tension.
I am blaming white people. This is not to say that Black people are not also responsible, but that white people are too. As the primary consumers of hip hop they have a massive influence on the direction it takes. The music corporations don't care about the content of the music, just the consumption of it. It won't help anything if Black people do it on their own. There needs to be education on both sides about negative rap music and the unfortunate historical circumstances from which it emerged and the social system that causes it to flourish. If tons money can still be made from it, it going to be hard to convince a young black child not to sell out. Especially when he has few other opportunities to be sucessful.
You have to look at it from the perspective of a child who is likely to be poor, fatherless and receiving a poor education. This problem is not just about individuals "not doing their part". You have to look at the system the child is a part of, and the tremendous amount of influence white people have on it.
For your second point, is that a problem of "policies that that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination"? or the current form those policies take? The policies the U.S. has chosen to implement might be poor, but that doesn't mean that the idea of Affirmative Action is inherently wrong.
Amugaba, slip knot just hates rap/hip hop. This isn't his first go at trying to blame the ills of the black community and society in general on the music.
Because conservative bias is a far, far worse thing. Liberal bias doesn't, statistically speaking, make people stupid. Conservative bias (or at least Fox's version of it) does.
“The effects on future student academic achievement are very large — differences among children at entry into kindergarten in the skills that are a product of the home environment are more powerful predictors of future academic achievement than variables under the control of K-12,” Grover Whitehurst, an expert on parental involvement with the Brown Center on Education Policy at the Brookings Institution, told Education Week during a recent interview.
I was encouraged that recent census numbers show that more low-income black parents are involved in their children’s education than a decade ago, this is in large part because of federal programs such as Reach Out and Read, Early Reading First and Reading is Fundamental.
A problem now is that funding for these programs has been slashed. Federal funding or not, black parents have a duty to be their children’s first teacher. Until they understand and practice this universal concept, their children will continue to lag behind."
He admits that federal programs have helped Black parents educate their children,admits it's a problem that these programs have been slashed, then says that somehow without these programs the Black community has to magically do it on their own despite the fact that "Many low-income black parents, especially uneducated single mothers, are unprepared to effectively teach their children." When a child's mother is 17, she needs help learning how to effectively educate and rear her child. If her mother is equally unqualified, she has no one to turn to. Black people taking the initiative and government assistance are not mutually exclusive, but equally necessary.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60s and 70s, yet the government understandably resisted the Black power movement and actively worked to destroy it in rather insidious ways. The government can't demand Blacks to "do it on our own" then actively work to destroy the efforts we attempt. If the government wants to influence the development of the Black community, we there has to be a collaborative vision and financial backing.
More Later..
I would agree with the level of depth and complexity of American racial issues. You sound like the kind of person with whom I could spend many hours discussing potential solutions.
I see the same thing with white families regarding vocabulary. This is a poverty and parenting issue, but because there are more black families in poverty, there are more learning and development issues. Kids that spend hours and hours in front of the TV vs kids like mine who are read to on a daily basis show very different aptitude levels.
I think its deeper than reading though. The programs you described were an aknowledgement of the failures of Head Start which was/is simply extra time with a teacher. If you speak with clergy, teachers et, there is a great lack of role modeling, especially with boys, and that causes them to leave the structured educational environment far earlier than thier peers who have good role models and parents who care.
It doesn't matter how much you are read to when you are 3 if your dad is gone and mom is either hitting the bottle or even working a second job and you are raising your younger brother by the time you're 11.
I've explored childcare as a way to attempt meaningful reform, but the financial cost is very high indeed. The idea is that if single moms had safe affordable childcare they could get the training they needed, and get a better paying job that would reduce the demands on the whole family to simply maintain.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
I've explored childcare as a way to attempt meaningful reform, but the financial cost is very high indeed. The idea is that if single moms had safe affordable childcare they could get the training they needed, and get a better paying job that would reduce the demands on the whole family to simply maintain.
I think that safe, reliable childcare is one of the most important systems the government could establish to improve the long term health and competitiveness of this country. The cost might be high at first, but do it right and future rewards are immense. Unfortunately something that logically sound and future oriented is far off. We still have the sexist notion that "woman's work" should be done at the cost of individual women's money and time, regardless of the impact on the nation as a whole.
It's really easy to spend one's entire life without taking any action on(or even thinking about) these kinds of deep systemic issues and believe that "that's just the way things are" ,"this is the way things should be" or "There's no use in me doing anything". That's what privilege is. It's being able to have others submit to YOUR comfort zone. Intentionally or not.
Amugaba, slip knot just hates rap/hip hop. This isn't his first go at trying to blame the ills of the black community and society in general on the music.
Well it makes logical sense that some young kids idol talking about being a thug could make that kid want to become a thug. I also blame games like GTA and some movies. Like I said though parents can for the most part control these factors. I understand that not all rap/hip hop is inherently bad. I can't stand the stuff but that is preference. It is just that you don't hear most other forms of music talking about killing cops and ****...... like I said I don't listen to the stuff, but I hear it in places, on games, tv, movies, and the ignorant people who blast their music so loud that it knocks things off of my walls.
I also don't think it is fair that your treating your music choice as a sacred cow. When logic states that some of it is part of the problem. I will be the first to admit that some metal bands have their own problems, although this is diminishing over time and more abstract things are the typical subject matter.
I would agree with the level of depth and complexity of American racial issues. You sound like the kind of person with whom I could spend many hours discussing potential solutions.
I see the same thing with white families regarding vocabulary. This is a poverty and parenting issue, but because there are more black families in poverty, there are more learning and development issues. Kids that spend hours and hours in front of the TV vs kids like mine who are read to on a daily basis show very different aptitude levels.
I think its deeper than reading though. The programs you described were an aknowledgement of the failures of Head Start which was/is simply extra time with a teacher. If you speak with clergy, teachers et, there is a great lack of role modeling, especially with boys, and that causes them to leave the structured educational environment far earlier than their peers who have good role models and parents who care.
It doesn't matter how much you are read to when you are 3 if your dad is gone and mom is either hitting the bottle or even working a second job and you are raising your younger brother by the time you're 11.
I've explored childcare as a way to attempt meaningful reform, but the financial cost is very high indeed. The idea is that if single moms had safe affordable childcare they could get the training they needed, and get a better paying job that would reduce the demands on the whole family to simply maintain.
To be fair I grew up poor around drugs with parents that liked getting high and drunk. My parents constantly fought(physical fistfight not just argued) and eventually divorced. My dad worked 60+ hours a week and my mom had to spend most of her time taking care of my mentally challenged sister. We lived without electric, water, gas, heaters, AC units, ect several times as I was growing up. I had cloths from charity organizations or I would have had none at all. The little parenting I did have was helpful, but I remained mostly isolated because I couldn't have friends because my parents would not allow people to see them using and dealing drugs.
oh by the way I am white and I never lived in an urban setting. I am not a thug. I might be poor, but as far as other things go I am a functional member of society who is just in need of a job. I don't know why I turned out better than people in similar situations,(maybe I was smart enough to see my parents failings even at an early age) however I never had an idol telling me that I should be doing drugs or killing cops. I listened to the same music as my parents.(classic rock, zztop, zeplin, pink floyd things of that nature)
I think that safe, reliable childcare is one of the most important systems the government could establish to improve the long term health and competitiveness of this country. The cost might be high at first, but do it right and future rewards are immense. Unfortunately something that logically sound and future oriented is far off. We still have the sexist notion that "woman's work" should be done at the cost of individual women's money and time, regardless of the impact on the nation as a whole.
I agree that government provided child care is fantastic. In my state you can apply for vouchers that are given to poor single parents or to poor couples who both work. Unfortunately the child care is only as good as the place you take them and not every daycare will accept them. 'Tis a step in the right direction vs no help at all.
I disagree with your statement about sexism. Moms can give children certain needs that dads can't thus if only 1 parent works then the mother is better off staying with the children.( I have done quit a bit of stay at home dad duties) Sexism is the illogical use of gender, but moms have tools that dads don't have for the caring of children.(milk bearing breast is a good example) Also It can be argued that mothers generally have a better "feel" for caring for children as per instincts.
Something is not racist or sexist or any other that if it is logical or a true fact. Black people are more likely to have heart disease.(1) Women are more likely to get certain cancers....
It's really easy to spend one's entire life without taking any action on(or even thinking about) these kinds of deep systemic issues and believe that "that's just the way things are" ,"this is the way things should be" or "There's no use in me doing anything". That's what privilege is. It's being able to have others submit to YOUR comfort zone. Intentionally or not.
Again I agree. Question everything then speak out against the problems you find. I also agree that being handed a cushy life "on a silver platter" can make you ignorant to the needs of others and the problems others face. Only people who have been through tough times can really appreciate what it means to help out another human despite any differences that society or the media might see. I guarantee you that if i ever become rich or get into politics I would do my damnedest to fight for those who have it hard. It will also have no racial attachment like the Negro college fund and similar programs. It will be solely need based starting with the most needy first be they white black or purple(? :))
In life all we can do is try to make things better. Sitting lost in old ways and fearing change only makes us outdated and ignorant.
Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
I think that the best answer for this comes from my history teacher:
"Giving special advantages to one group does not fight against discrimination. On the contrary, it usually breeds resentment."
Temporarily shuttling people that belong in specific department that have been long passed over for promotions is also a really great way to deflate social angst, you have to remember the nation was also on the verge of potentially a civil war at that point. 10-15 years to get older workers to shatter the glass ceiling is a fair commitment after Jim Crow, however the way it has been constructed not as a temporary fix to those that were legitimately in need of job promotions and those that are arguably not is something that's not studied.
Frankly, what pisses me off about education is a few fold. The first off is that to be educated is to some how to be "assimilated," meanwhile people ranging from Frederick Douglas, granted he was half-white but a former slave nontheless, W. E. B. Dubois and other people were pushed towards education combined with experience and social connectivity to move upward in society. Dubois was the case for more of a relatively normal childhood, irregardless of that shouldn't much matter as he was far from an assimilationist and even placard a struggle against Booker T. Washington's work and ethos at the turn of last century. To this day there's still a sense for blacks and hispanics to be learned is to be "white." Which for most hispanics is ludicrous since to be of Hispania is to be white. The black conceptual identity is a bit more complex with rape and relations with black women which was what created the 10% white lineage found in most African Americans, however are in essence white. Which adds a whole level of undiscussed point about what it means to be "white" in America, equally the term "black" connotes multi-ethnic so it goes as an identifier without saying in second respect we never discuss "identity." The third is not teaching methods of social inquiry to young persons while in school, and instead focusing on survey courses that have been through a spaghetti strainer as not to tick off some parent.
Which brings up another point with racial hybridization with the tribes and being defined as "Native American" as some tribes were decimated in particular regions and are practically invisible to the mainstream in specific areas of the country. There was also a case of "black Indians" where descendants of Indian owned slaves whether they were considered a part of the tribe, the short of the story was no they're not.
So either way, it's messy, screwed up, and ultimately comes down to your area and your family to identify with combined with individuals. Douglas if fate had conspired different could have ended up like Chevalier de Saint George supported by his white father and led into the aristocracy of Europe. I feel that the dichotomy between Douglas and Saint George show that hard work combined with a willing and steady environment can produce results, different results, but good enough results that people can live out their lives. The path to power has to be "stable enough" to allow for people to remain "equal enough" but not completely unequal as to allow an aristocracy to build and pillage the lower classes.
We as a society also have to get used to the idea of gender job specialization, age not necessarily qualifying someone for a position of power, and other prerequisites don't always mean jack. We have to face some ugly truths about identity in this country, that while we claim to be "equal" we need to ask what it means to be "equal enough" and to allow someone to build different identities without always asking for pure consistency in identity. To "act white," to be "butch," or whatever is really the problem asserted by stereotypes trying to fit a mold that restricts people. Focus on individuals overcoming limits and focusing on their own passions and strengths, while a community built to support intellectual activity and science like during the Scottish Enlightenment and generation change can happen.
I see at this point in our society a horrible fetishization of American football and near deification of celebrities, meanwhile there are few "celebrity" scientists and the few that exist tend to come off as peevish like Dawkins rather than the calm and coolness that was associated with Carl Sagan. Bill Nye falls into the Sagan tradition, but he's more of a child point of view and in particular I feel that adults need to be turned on by science and the like just like children to value it.
So in essence, it comes down to a flexible identity and trying to keep people up with the Joneses and switching from consumerism towards education and experimentation. Government's role is to act as facilitator, most certainly government is a destructive creation force mean while the private sector is a part of creative destruction. Government should have limited responsibilities due to it's inherent destructive qualities but understood in it's creation abilities in socializing value generation in the way of libraries, roads, tarriffs against unfair trade practices, and ect. The problem comes with the "destructive destruction" cycle with both the private sector and the government which basically undermines the truest of value generation institutions; the family.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
Well put. Hoover has a lot to answer for.
It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them.
Well, A, poor blacks are also encouraged to identify more with the wealthy elite (rappers, bling, and bad behavior at awards shows) than with real role models amongst themselves or their white co-workers. And B, I think the reason those poor whites think they can get away with smiling to the faces of their black co-workers, and then voting for politicians who rail against Affirmative Action, is because their black co-workers are so politically voiceless that the whites actually think "they don't mind". But how do you tell poor blacks to speak up for themselves, when even today the result of that is so often that they get stomped down for having such temerity?
It's a political problem, really, that deals with the partisanship. Republicans and conservatives in general are seen as "racist".
Only when they're *being* racist. It's not the fault of liberals that Republicans pander to this BS more often than they should. The emperor has no clothes, and you're mad at the guy who points it out?
In fact, I have seen people such as Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow - two very prominent liberals - say that anyone who doesn't agree with President Obama is "racist".
Link or it didn't happen. Dead serious, concede the point or prove they actually said the words "anyone who doesn't agree" in this context. Sure, Maddow and Matthews have called out a lot of people they claim were racists. A lot doesn't equal "anyone". Maybe from your POV, "too many" becomes "anyone" when you get mad and defensive about it?
If you're defensive, it could be a sign that you, yourself, are not a racist and are uncomfortable with those you associate with / support being called racists. Perhaps this is a sign you should change your associations.
In fact, after the South Carolina debate, Chris Matthews said using Juan Williams' name "in the way he did" was racist.
Totally missed this one, now I'm curious. Link? Also, be aware that JW is basically Arch-Traitor Numero Uno to those in the liberal bunker. I can imagine - not saying condone mind you, *imagine* - that tempers fray where he is concerned.
“This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” - Eric Holder
lol, I had no idea he was African-American. I've never seen his photo.
The Democrats are just as racist as Republicans, blacks can be just as racist as whites, and the list goes on.
I still see one party more consistently walking the walk, when it comes to attempting (usually without success, but hey) to enact policies that will result in, say, less racial income disparity, or less racial neonatal mortality disparity. The other party, I hear them talking the talk, but their policy stances say otherwise. *shrug* I can only judge by what I see happening, while assuming good intent as far as that thread can stretch.
"Giving special advantages to one group does not fight against discrimination. On the contrary, it usually breeds resentment."
I suppose it breeds resentment in those with no sense of fairness, and those too ignorant to know the score. I'm white and Affirmative Action doesn't make me resentful. Know why? Because I am educated enough to be aware that I benefit, economically, from my whiteness every day, in a lot of tiny ways. This includes the way in which my family - just for the luck of being white - was able to accumulate more wealth and a higher socioeconomic status than a black family could have, all of which funnels down to me and has improved MY standard of living, social and economic class status, etc. Being aware that I have benefited unfairly due to the color of my skin, and being a person who believes in a level playing field and fair play, how can I not want the scales to be rebalanced? I would only be resentful if I were ignorant or didn't desire "justice for all".
Kasreyn-Seriously, the republican stance on every issue has been labeled racist. So ya, everything they do is racist. If the democrats could get away with claiming that all republicans were child molesters they would do that to. What is your proof that everything you have is the result of being white anyway? Is it purely an assumption? It sounds like textbook bias confirmation to me. Is your proof just "come on that has to be the case and if you think otherwise your racist!"
AA rebalances nothing. If you tell a child they are bad enough times they will believe it, and try to live up to that expectation. If you tell people they are victims and the system will not let them advance enough times they will stop trying.
Affirmative Action is racism, cut and dry. And no government body (local, state, or Federal) should be condoning or encouraging any form of racism.
Racism is racism. There is no "good" racism, only bad racism. Using a person's skin color or ethnic background as a reason to place them above another person is wrong - regardless of why it was being done.
Yes, there are racists on the right side of the political spectrum. And there are just as many racists, if not more, on the left side of the political spectrum. And if you look at the two parties historical positions and actions on race, you'd be surprised.
It was the Republicans who freed the slaves.
It was the Republicans who fought for the Civil Rights Act.
It was the Republicans who appointed the first black Supreme Court Justice and the first female Supreme Court Justice.
It was the Democrats who founded the Ku Klux Klan after the Civil War.
It was the Democrats who passed the Jim Crowe laws in the south.
It was the Democrats who fought tooth and nail against the Civil Rights Act.
Honestly, I have no idea how it is that the Republicans are considered the "racists" and the Democrats came to be the "champion" of the minorities considering the histories of the two parties.
If you want proof of where the most racism lies in politics, look no further than how black conservatives like Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain were treated by the Liberal media.
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The type of music you listen to is of no consequence if you have halfway decent parents. If they are lackluster and don't teach their children about the difference between what some would call entertainment and reality, then that person turns into a "thug" because of his or her parents, not their music preference.
On topic: I think Affirmative action should be either abolished or expanded to include impoverished people of all races. As it functions right now, I think its run its course.
This I could support.
A new "program," not a reworked Affirmative Action (the name has a lot of negative connotations these days), that works based on income level instead of race would be a good idea. That would be technically race neutral, and would still help blacks more than whites because a larger percentage of blacks are in poverty than whites while not turning a blind eye to the whites who do live in poverty as well. It would also cut down some of the abuses of the system being done by minorities who are not in poverty but still play the system for all the benefits they can.
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You could also say that, historically, Republicans were:
The party who increased the power of the Federal government.
The party who championed nature conservation efforts.
The party who expanded the scope of what the government does and can tax.
The party who was responsible for the most expensive public works project in history.
It's really not possible to compare political stances across so many generations. Overall party positions change. I can only reliably judge positions I see now.
I have the same position on Affirmative Action as I did on any other question of privilege. There are very real and very easy to verify instances of racial privilege which hurt minorities. However, these work on a macro scale, and don't always translate to individual cases. As such, I don't know if provided blanket aid to one group on a micro scale fixes the issue.
An example, studies are pretty conclusive that minorities face greater abuse from law enforcement. They get profiled due to their race, and they get harsher sentences for the same crimes. Non minorities, therefore, are the beneficiaries of their own privilege. However, codifying into laws rules that state that minorities should be given lesser sentences because they are a minority shouldn't sit right with anyone.
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Does affirmative action over step that fine line or has it gotten too aged to do as it was intended.
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I am opposed to these laws, and I favor more "color blind" legislation.
Debate.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
It definitely served a purpose - but that time has come and gone long before most of us were alive.
Re: People misusing the term Vanilla to describe a flying, unleash (sometimes trample) critter.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
I think you make the most sense out of anyone in the history of anything.:)
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It's the economy of the 30-50 year old, the person that has "enough experience" but not "too old" or "too expensive." Experienced older workers are sloughing around and upgrading jobs, the eldest workers between 55-65 in that coridoor before retirement are in a real pickle. However, there's a number of those that are starting new businesses with capital and social connections which is a good thing in the long run if those businesses expand during the next uptick. Which for some companies in smaller markets prove to be their undoing, as there have been stories over the years of laid off workers ending up destroying their old competitors.
The issue I feel is that we have too few jobs with too many workers, and that we're not doing anything to retrain workers so the joblessness will be extended farther into the future longer than it has to be. Really the decrease in defense spending in tandem with a lack of infrastructure spending and costs rising not falling (Asian demand, among other things) aren't going to go well for the American worker.
A part of the older worker problem are two fold:
1. Legitimately some workers can't do their old job and need retrained
2. Some older workers jobs no longer exist
The rest are just downsizing that's often myopic, my favorite is always laying off the one guy that actually knows how something actually works, hiring two guys to do that one guy's job, and **** is a mess and you're not saving any money. Meanwhile waiting until the one guy was about to retire or close to retire, then have him train the next guy under him, and keep that guy on later for other work as a contractor when retirement comes around.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
For example:http://madamenoire.com/107615/8-important-statistics-that-black-america-should-pay-attention-to-now/
I draw your attention to the statistics dealing with H.I.V.,Incarceration, High School drop out rates, single motherhood and Black on Black violence and Heart Disease/Stroke fatalities.
Most of these are due to the unhealthy and unfortunate cultural habits Blacks developed due to centuries of poor education, emasculation (of Men),objectification(of Women),poverty,terrorism and racism.
In fact, Many Black communities are just as bad off if not worse off in than they were before the Civil Rights Act was passed in many ways. Most of the material gains have been lost.
I do believe that the Government does owe the Black community an earnest attempt to solve these issues in a way that Black people will actually be receptive to.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60's and 70's in a radical fashion which understandably worried the government, but rather than trying understand or at least try to provide alternative opportunities to draw Blacks away from radicalism, the government worked to sabatoge these organizations and movements.
I also think Affirmative Action should address class issues as well I don't believe that a middle class Black person should be chosen over a poor white person. It's a huge problem within our racist society that which poor whites have been historically encouraged to identitfy with the wealthy elite in the name of "Whiteness". It's a shame that so many poor Whites identitify more with wealthy elites than the people of color working beside them. Still, I believe that poor Black communities are in more need of Government attention than poor White communities.
Part of the issue is the government itself. It's not a question at this point of "How can the government help", as much as many people want it to be. The truth is that the government, in many ways, is responsible for how everything is happening.
It's a political problem, really, that deals with the partisanship. Republicans and conservatives in general are seen as "racist". In fact, I have seen people such as Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow - two very prominent liberals - say that anyone who doesn't agree with President Obama is "racist". In fact, after the South Carolina debate, Chris Matthews said using Juan Williams' name "in the way he did" was racist.
"That use of the name ‘Juan,’ the way he did it. You can’t argue these things. You either see them or you don’t. It’s just the way he did that. I sensed a little applause when he said ‘Let me help you’ when he answered the Juan question. It’s in the eye of the beholder. And, by the way, calling someone a racist is the worst way to get them to stop being racist because everyone gets defensive. … So it’s stupid to say it but, honestly, if you notice it, you sort of ought to blow the whistle. Because there is a dog whistle going on here.” - Chris Matthews
I caught nothing racist in using his name. Hell had I been the commentator and he said, "Well, Patrick..." I would have been okay with it. Hell, had he said, "Well, Patrick Michael..." I would have been all, "OH CRAP HE'S CHANNELING THE NUNS FROM PAROCHIAL SCHOOL FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU".
All joking aside, the problem is that for everything, if there's no real response from a person of minority and they don't want to lose, they pull the race card. Case in point: Attorney General Eric Holder claims that Congress and many of his detractors are racist.
“This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him,” he said, “both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” - Eric Holder
These comments were said to the New York Times when they were talking specifically about Operation Fast and Furious, the failed gunrunning program that let 2,000 rifles and pistols leave the U.S. and enter the hands of the Mexican drug cartels, specifically the Sinaloa.
I'm not trying to trivialize racism. I believe there is an inherent problem with racism in our culture. But this comes from everyone, really. We're racist against each other, not because of skin color only. Affirmative action was passed with the best of intentions, but racism isn't only strengthened when no one confronts it. The Democrats are just as racist as Republicans, blacks can be just as racist as whites, and the list goes on.
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the problem with this is rap and hip hop are a big part of this. All of this thug life and bs and the media has just been fanning the flames. Not all of this is their fault, but a lot is. I am a poor white american, and my situation is partially my fault, and partially not, but I don't go running around in a gang knocking up 16 year olds and thinking my life style is cool.
Plenty of African-Americans are doing just as well as white people. I mean look in professional sports. I was watching sports center the other day and the anchors were wondering when the next white prodigy was going to come around because we have had so many African American superstars and no White-American superstars.(in NBA) Sports has bridged this gap now if society and the media will just give up on racism we can all more forward. It is sad that rap music has created this stereotype and people feel that they gotta live it out.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
Affirmative action truely fixes none of these things. Many poor white people might identify with blacks based on income levels, but they don't because blacks don't identify with them. Racial tensions are higher the lower down the poverty scale you go. You don't hear about CEO's worried the Mexicans will take thier jobs. You hear that from people working day to day in the field.
Affirmative Action, like all government programs of this sort are about control. Read Bill Maxwell regarding his views on why Blacks haven't come as far as they should. Government dependancy is a huge factor.
You have to put the problem in perspective. 60% of the people who buy rap music are white http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB111521814339424546,00.html
This means that white people (suburban white youth in particular) have a drastic impact on the content of rap music that becomes popular. They don't want to hear "conscious" rap music, so corporate executives are not looking for those kinds of artists. Everyday white people consume negative rap music through requesting it on the radio, watching it on youtube, buying albums and attending concerts, then turn around and have the same beliefs that you do while ignoring their own participation in the system. White parents do the same too,standing by or facilitating the consumption of negative rap by their children, often because the only rap they have heard of is what is popular. The day that the majority of white parents can say "don't listen to that garbage, here is some GOOD hip hop" will be a great day for music. But most white parents dismiss the entire art form as well as the communities the music comes from, yet still participate in it's consumption too. The trend continues for Whites in their 20's as well.
Now with that context, if you are a black youth who is poor and has had little guidance to put your life in social or historical perspective you have the chance to make millions by participating in a modern day minstrel show. Do you take the more "conscious" route or the one that will make you money? This is not to take blame off of the Black community, but white people need to realize the ENORMOUS impact they have had(and will continue to have) on the evolution of modern, popular rap, and the stereotypes that have been perpetuated about Blacks and in many cases internalized by Black youths.
The focus on Sports as a means to success is deeply problematic for the Black community it encourages young black males to adopt a high risk high reward model of success at the expense of education at the high school and college levels. NBA players don't influence policies or write laws(politicians or lawyers), NBA players don't help invent new technologies(engineers and scientists), NBA players aren't trained to properly educate youth(Teachers and Professors). The aspirations of so many Black youth are too narrow and unrealistic. "I want to spend my life dribbling a basket ball or talking about being a criminal" most people won't get too far with that, and thus the cycle continues.
@the_Cardfather
I think that current Affirmative Action policies are deeply flawed. They view Racism as dealing with intentions rather than as a systemic problem that has been evolving for centuries. The problem is incredibly delicate and complex and it's going to take much more than "Hire that middle class black guy" to fix the problem. Like I said earlier, the reason that poor whites and poor blacks don't identify with one another is due to racism. European immigrants who had little in common with wealthy whites back home suddenly found that they gained immense economic, social and psychological privileges by identifying with them. There used to be a saying that "One of the first words you learn when you get off the boat is ******." This relationship between lower and upper-class whites in our society has been deeply exploitative, racism has been a huge part of this. Poor whites have often not advocated for deep systemic change because 1.undeserving brown people might benefit or 2. A brown face is used to distract whites with band-aid solutions.(Illegal Immigration is not the problem, it's deeper.)
I've read Maxwell, and he has an accurate grasps of the the problems the Black community faces and he is right that we need to take control of our own communities. However, look at this statement:
"Many low-income black parents, especially uneducated single mothers, are unprepared to effectively teach their children. To be effective, parents must spend what experts call “quality time” with their children. The 1995 study “Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experiences of Young American Children” shows that the vocabularies of children of parents on welfare were smaller than those of children of professionals by an average of 1,537 words by age 3, primarily because professional parents naturally hold more positive and complex conversations with their children.
“The effects on future student academic achievement are very large — differences among children at entry into kindergarten in the skills that are a product of the home environment are more powerful predictors of future academic achievement than variables under the control of K-12,” Grover Whitehurst, an expert on parental involvement with the Brown Center on Education Policy at the Brookings Institution, told Education Week during a recent interview.
I was encouraged that recent census numbers show that more low-income black parents are involved in their children’s education than a decade ago, this is in large part because of federal programs such as Reach Out and Read, Early Reading First and Reading is Fundamental.
A problem now is that funding for these programs has been slashed. Federal funding or not, black parents have a duty to be their children’s first teacher. Until they understand and practice this universal concept, their children will continue to lag behind."
He admits that federal programs have helped Black parents educate their children,admits it's a problem that these programs have been slashed, then says that somehow without these programs the Black community has to magically do it on their own despite the fact that "Many low-income black parents, especially uneducated single mothers, are unprepared to effectively teach their children." When a child's mother is 17, she needs help learning how to effectively educate and rear her child. If her mother is equally unqualified, she has no one to turn to. Black people taking the initiative and government assistance are not mutually exclusive, but equally necessary.
We tried to do it on our own during the 60s and 70s, yet the government understandably resisted the Black power movement and actively worked to destroy it in rather insidious ways. The government can't demand Blacks to "do it on our own" then actively work to destroy the efforts we attempt. If the government wants to influence the development of the Black community, we there has to be a collaborative vision and financial backing.
More Later..
Also AA doesn't fix these problems it actually just compounds them by causing racial tension.
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I am blaming white people. This is not to say that Black people are not also responsible, but that white people are too. As the primary consumers of hip hop they have a massive influence on the direction it takes. The music corporations don't care about the content of the music, just the consumption of it. It won't help anything if Black people do it on their own. There needs to be education on both sides about negative rap music and the unfortunate historical circumstances from which it emerged and the social system that causes it to flourish. If tons money can still be made from it, it going to be hard to convince a young black child not to sell out. Especially when he has few other opportunities to be sucessful.
You have to look at it from the perspective of a child who is likely to be poor, fatherless and receiving a poor education. This problem is not just about individuals "not doing their part". You have to look at the system the child is a part of, and the tremendous amount of influence white people have on it.
For your second point, is that a problem of "policies that that take factors including 'race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation or national origin'[1] into consideration in order to benefit an underrepresented group, usually as a means to counter the effects of a history of discrimination"? or the current form those policies take? The policies the U.S. has chosen to implement might be poor, but that doesn't mean that the idea of Affirmative Action is inherently wrong.
I would agree with the level of depth and complexity of American racial issues. You sound like the kind of person with whom I could spend many hours discussing potential solutions.
I see the same thing with white families regarding vocabulary. This is a poverty and parenting issue, but because there are more black families in poverty, there are more learning and development issues. Kids that spend hours and hours in front of the TV vs kids like mine who are read to on a daily basis show very different aptitude levels.
I think its deeper than reading though. The programs you described were an aknowledgement of the failures of Head Start which was/is simply extra time with a teacher. If you speak with clergy, teachers et, there is a great lack of role modeling, especially with boys, and that causes them to leave the structured educational environment far earlier than thier peers who have good role models and parents who care.
It doesn't matter how much you are read to when you are 3 if your dad is gone and mom is either hitting the bottle or even working a second job and you are raising your younger brother by the time you're 11.
I've explored childcare as a way to attempt meaningful reform, but the financial cost is very high indeed. The idea is that if single moms had safe affordable childcare they could get the training they needed, and get a better paying job that would reduce the demands on the whole family to simply maintain.
I think that safe, reliable childcare is one of the most important systems the government could establish to improve the long term health and competitiveness of this country. The cost might be high at first, but do it right and future rewards are immense. Unfortunately something that logically sound and future oriented is far off. We still have the sexist notion that "woman's work" should be done at the cost of individual women's money and time, regardless of the impact on the nation as a whole.
It's really easy to spend one's entire life without taking any action on(or even thinking about) these kinds of deep systemic issues and believe that "that's just the way things are" ,"this is the way things should be" or "There's no use in me doing anything". That's what privilege is. It's being able to have others submit to YOUR comfort zone. Intentionally or not.
Well it makes logical sense that some young kids idol talking about being a thug could make that kid want to become a thug. I also blame games like GTA and some movies. Like I said though parents can for the most part control these factors. I understand that not all rap/hip hop is inherently bad. I can't stand the stuff but that is preference. It is just that you don't hear most other forms of music talking about killing cops and ****...... like I said I don't listen to the stuff, but I hear it in places, on games, tv, movies, and the ignorant people who blast their music so loud that it knocks things off of my walls.
I also don't think it is fair that your treating your music choice as a sacred cow. When logic states that some of it is part of the problem. I will be the first to admit that some metal bands have their own problems, although this is diminishing over time and more abstract things are the typical subject matter.
To be fair I grew up poor around drugs with parents that liked getting high and drunk. My parents constantly fought(physical fistfight not just argued) and eventually divorced. My dad worked 60+ hours a week and my mom had to spend most of her time taking care of my mentally challenged sister. We lived without electric, water, gas, heaters, AC units, ect several times as I was growing up. I had cloths from charity organizations or I would have had none at all. The little parenting I did have was helpful, but I remained mostly isolated because I couldn't have friends because my parents would not allow people to see them using and dealing drugs.
oh by the way I am white and I never lived in an urban setting. I am not a thug. I might be poor, but as far as other things go I am a functional member of society who is just in need of a job. I don't know why I turned out better than people in similar situations,(maybe I was smart enough to see my parents failings even at an early age) however I never had an idol telling me that I should be doing drugs or killing cops. I listened to the same music as my parents.(classic rock, zztop, zeplin, pink floyd things of that nature)
I agree that government provided child care is fantastic. In my state you can apply for vouchers that are given to poor single parents or to poor couples who both work. Unfortunately the child care is only as good as the place you take them and not every daycare will accept them. 'Tis a step in the right direction vs no help at all.
I disagree with your statement about sexism. Moms can give children certain needs that dads can't thus if only 1 parent works then the mother is better off staying with the children.( I have done quit a bit of stay at home dad duties) Sexism is the illogical use of gender, but moms have tools that dads don't have for the caring of children.(milk bearing breast is a good example) Also It can be argued that mothers generally have a better "feel" for caring for children as per instincts.
Something is not racist or sexist or any other that if it is logical or a true fact. Black people are more likely to have heart disease.(1) Women are more likely to get certain cancers....
Again I agree. Question everything then speak out against the problems you find. I also agree that being handed a cushy life "on a silver platter" can make you ignorant to the needs of others and the problems others face. Only people who have been through tough times can really appreciate what it means to help out another human despite any differences that society or the media might see. I guarantee you that if i ever become rich or get into politics I would do my damnedest to fight for those who have it hard. It will also have no racial attachment like the Negro college fund and similar programs. It will be solely need based starting with the most needy first be they white black or purple(? :))
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
"Giving special advantages to one group does not fight against discrimination. On the contrary, it usually breeds resentment."
Thanks to Rivenor for the art.
Temporarily shuttling people that belong in specific department that have been long passed over for promotions is also a really great way to deflate social angst, you have to remember the nation was also on the verge of potentially a civil war at that point. 10-15 years to get older workers to shatter the glass ceiling is a fair commitment after Jim Crow, however the way it has been constructed not as a temporary fix to those that were legitimately in need of job promotions and those that are arguably not is something that's not studied.
Frankly, what pisses me off about education is a few fold. The first off is that to be educated is to some how to be "assimilated," meanwhile people ranging from Frederick Douglas, granted he was half-white but a former slave nontheless, W. E. B. Dubois and other people were pushed towards education combined with experience and social connectivity to move upward in society. Dubois was the case for more of a relatively normal childhood, irregardless of that shouldn't much matter as he was far from an assimilationist and even placard a struggle against Booker T. Washington's work and ethos at the turn of last century. To this day there's still a sense for blacks and hispanics to be learned is to be "white." Which for most hispanics is ludicrous since to be of Hispania is to be white. The black conceptual identity is a bit more complex with rape and relations with black women which was what created the 10% white lineage found in most African Americans, however are in essence white. Which adds a whole level of undiscussed point about what it means to be "white" in America, equally the term "black" connotes multi-ethnic so it goes as an identifier without saying in second respect we never discuss "identity." The third is not teaching methods of social inquiry to young persons while in school, and instead focusing on survey courses that have been through a spaghetti strainer as not to tick off some parent.
Which brings up another point with racial hybridization with the tribes and being defined as "Native American" as some tribes were decimated in particular regions and are practically invisible to the mainstream in specific areas of the country. There was also a case of "black Indians" where descendants of Indian owned slaves whether they were considered a part of the tribe, the short of the story was no they're not.
So either way, it's messy, screwed up, and ultimately comes down to your area and your family to identify with combined with individuals. Douglas if fate had conspired different could have ended up like Chevalier de Saint George supported by his white father and led into the aristocracy of Europe. I feel that the dichotomy between Douglas and Saint George show that hard work combined with a willing and steady environment can produce results, different results, but good enough results that people can live out their lives. The path to power has to be "stable enough" to allow for people to remain "equal enough" but not completely unequal as to allow an aristocracy to build and pillage the lower classes.
We as a society also have to get used to the idea of gender job specialization, age not necessarily qualifying someone for a position of power, and other prerequisites don't always mean jack. We have to face some ugly truths about identity in this country, that while we claim to be "equal" we need to ask what it means to be "equal enough" and to allow someone to build different identities without always asking for pure consistency in identity. To "act white," to be "butch," or whatever is really the problem asserted by stereotypes trying to fit a mold that restricts people. Focus on individuals overcoming limits and focusing on their own passions and strengths, while a community built to support intellectual activity and science like during the Scottish Enlightenment and generation change can happen.
I see at this point in our society a horrible fetishization of American football and near deification of celebrities, meanwhile there are few "celebrity" scientists and the few that exist tend to come off as peevish like Dawkins rather than the calm and coolness that was associated with Carl Sagan. Bill Nye falls into the Sagan tradition, but he's more of a child point of view and in particular I feel that adults need to be turned on by science and the like just like children to value it.
So in essence, it comes down to a flexible identity and trying to keep people up with the Joneses and switching from consumerism towards education and experimentation. Government's role is to act as facilitator, most certainly government is a destructive creation force mean while the private sector is a part of creative destruction. Government should have limited responsibilities due to it's inherent destructive qualities but understood in it's creation abilities in socializing value generation in the way of libraries, roads, tarriffs against unfair trade practices, and ect. The problem comes with the "destructive destruction" cycle with both the private sector and the government which basically undermines the truest of value generation institutions; the family.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Well put. Hoover has a lot to answer for.
Well, A, poor blacks are also encouraged to identify more with the wealthy elite (rappers, bling, and bad behavior at awards shows) than with real role models amongst themselves or their white co-workers. And B, I think the reason those poor whites think they can get away with smiling to the faces of their black co-workers, and then voting for politicians who rail against Affirmative Action, is because their black co-workers are so politically voiceless that the whites actually think "they don't mind". But how do you tell poor blacks to speak up for themselves, when even today the result of that is so often that they get stomped down for having such temerity?
Only when they're *being* racist. It's not the fault of liberals that Republicans pander to this BS more often than they should. The emperor has no clothes, and you're mad at the guy who points it out?
Link or it didn't happen. Dead serious, concede the point or prove they actually said the words "anyone who doesn't agree" in this context. Sure, Maddow and Matthews have called out a lot of people they claim were racists. A lot doesn't equal "anyone". Maybe from your POV, "too many" becomes "anyone" when you get mad and defensive about it?
If you're defensive, it could be a sign that you, yourself, are not a racist and are uncomfortable with those you associate with / support being called racists. Perhaps this is a sign you should change your associations.
Totally missed this one, now I'm curious. Link? Also, be aware that JW is basically Arch-Traitor Numero Uno to those in the liberal bunker. I can imagine - not saying condone mind you, *imagine* - that tempers fray where he is concerned.
lol, I had no idea he was African-American. I've never seen his photo.
I still see one party more consistently walking the walk, when it comes to attempting (usually without success, but hey) to enact policies that will result in, say, less racial income disparity, or less racial neonatal mortality disparity. The other party, I hear them talking the talk, but their policy stances say otherwise. *shrug* I can only judge by what I see happening, while assuming good intent as far as that thread can stretch.
I suppose it breeds resentment in those with no sense of fairness, and those too ignorant to know the score. I'm white and Affirmative Action doesn't make me resentful. Know why? Because I am educated enough to be aware that I benefit, economically, from my whiteness every day, in a lot of tiny ways. This includes the way in which my family - just for the luck of being white - was able to accumulate more wealth and a higher socioeconomic status than a black family could have, all of which funnels down to me and has improved MY standard of living, social and economic class status, etc. Being aware that I have benefited unfairly due to the color of my skin, and being a person who believes in a level playing field and fair play, how can I not want the scales to be rebalanced? I would only be resentful if I were ignorant or didn't desire "justice for all".
Some history teacher. Pff.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., who is up in Heaven now. EDH WUBRG Child of Alara WUBRG BGW Karador, Ghost Chieftain BGW RGW Mayael the Anima RGW WUB Sharuum the Hegemon WUB RWU Zedruu the Greathearted RWU
WB Ghost Council of Orzhova WB RG Ulasht, the Hate Seed RG B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B G Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer G *click the general's name to see my list!*
AA rebalances nothing. If you tell a child they are bad enough times they will believe it, and try to live up to that expectation. If you tell people they are victims and the system will not let them advance enough times they will stop trying.
Racism is racism. There is no "good" racism, only bad racism. Using a person's skin color or ethnic background as a reason to place them above another person is wrong - regardless of why it was being done.
Yes, there are racists on the right side of the political spectrum. And there are just as many racists, if not more, on the left side of the political spectrum. And if you look at the two parties historical positions and actions on race, you'd be surprised.
It was the Republicans who freed the slaves.
It was the Republicans who fought for the Civil Rights Act.
It was the Republicans who appointed the first black Supreme Court Justice and the first female Supreme Court Justice.
It was the Democrats who founded the Ku Klux Klan after the Civil War.
It was the Democrats who passed the Jim Crowe laws in the south.
It was the Democrats who fought tooth and nail against the Civil Rights Act.
Honestly, I have no idea how it is that the Republicans are considered the "racists" and the Democrats came to be the "champion" of the minorities considering the histories of the two parties.
If you want proof of where the most racism lies in politics, look no further than how black conservatives like Clarence Thomas or Herman Cain were treated by the Liberal media.
This I could support.
A new "program," not a reworked Affirmative Action (the name has a lot of negative connotations these days), that works based on income level instead of race would be a good idea. That would be technically race neutral, and would still help blacks more than whites because a larger percentage of blacks are in poverty than whites while not turning a blind eye to the whites who do live in poverty as well. It would also cut down some of the abuses of the system being done by minorities who are not in poverty but still play the system for all the benefits they can.
The party who increased the power of the Federal government.
The party who championed nature conservation efforts.
The party who expanded the scope of what the government does and can tax.
The party who was responsible for the most expensive public works project in history.
It's really not possible to compare political stances across so many generations. Overall party positions change. I can only reliably judge positions I see now.
I have the same position on Affirmative Action as I did on any other question of privilege. There are very real and very easy to verify instances of racial privilege which hurt minorities. However, these work on a macro scale, and don't always translate to individual cases. As such, I don't know if provided blanket aid to one group on a micro scale fixes the issue.
An example, studies are pretty conclusive that minorities face greater abuse from law enforcement. They get profiled due to their race, and they get harsher sentences for the same crimes. Non minorities, therefore, are the beneficiaries of their own privilege. However, codifying into laws rules that state that minorities should be given lesser sentences because they are a minority shouldn't sit right with anyone.