Hillary supporters WILL ultimately vote for Obama. Almost everyone who supported Hillary was a hardcore liberal democrat, and they're not going to let a republican get in office just because they're bitter. It'll take some time for them to forgive Obama, but they will before November.
Never underestimate the pride, fickleness, and outright stupidity of the voting public. The Clintonites are quite capable of letting a Republican get into office just because they're bitter. And this is one area where Obama's media darling status may turn into a disadvantage. These diehards are seeing a lot of him and relatively little of McCain, which could diminish the Republican's perceived threat level and keep the old intra-Democratic fires burning - especially with what looks to be a vice-presidential snub.
Of course, when the Republican Convention rolls around and McCain announces his running mate, he'll jump back into the foreground. Only time will tell what the long-term effect of this will be.
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It probably is a mistake, but it's also increasingly obvious that this is what Clinton herself is angling for.
Never underestimate the pride, fickleness, and outright stupidity of the voting public. The Clintonites are quite capable of letting a Republican get into office just because they're bitter. And this is one area where Obama's media darling status may turn into a disadvantage. These diehards are seeing a lot of him and relatively little of McCain, which could diminish the Republican's perceived threat level and keep the old intra-Democratic fires burning - especially with what looks to be a vice-presidential snub.
Of course, when the Republican Convention rolls around and McCain announces his running mate, he'll jump back into the foreground. Only time will tell what the long-term effect of this will be.
When the DNC is over, it will become concrete clear that Obama is the nominee even to the Clinton Camp. Never underestimate the power of time. In two months, they won't remember Hillary's bitter remarks, but they will remember the bush administration. And they'll vote.
BTW, I think that McCain's threat level is actually being raised right now, as his adds constantly bombard the olympic coverage.
Not to mention there's got to be people in the Democratic camp that do not approve, especially the Hillary voters. The fact that Obama chose a Republican over her has got to be pissing some people off.
The Hillary followers would be pissed that Obama chose anyone over Hillary. Believe it or not there are still some fanatics who still hope Hillary can somehow relaunch her presidential bid.
But I agree in the end they will make the right decision. Not because they will open their eyes and support Obama, but rather because they oppose McCain even more. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" as they say.
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It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
The Hillary followers would be pissed that Obama chose anyone over Hillary. Believe it or not there are still some fanatics who still hope Hillary can somehow relaunch her presidential bid.
But I agree in the end they will make the right decision. Not because they will open their eyes and support Obama, but rather because they oppose McCain even more. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" as they say.
I know people like this. I gotta say that I personally don't mind that Obama didn't choose Clinton for the VP selection, though I know people who actually will NOT vote Obama due to this development; and yes, it is those fanatics that you're talking about. Anyway, doesn't matter to me because I pretty much have to vote Obama, even if I don't like all of his policies, simply because he wants to end the War on Errorism.
Um... no he doesn't. He wants to pull out of Iraq - when exactly is still up in the air - but nothing he's said has indicated that the hunt for Osama bin Laden or the destruction of al-Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations will cease. Which is to his credit.
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I'm pretty sure Obama said that he would pull out of Iraq within 10 months, and focus the forces into hunting down Osama and Al-Qaeda during one of his earlier speeches.
It always makes me mad when when people give praise for Obama for his views on the war. I've had arguments with many people who stated that Obama would end the war and bring our troops home. When in reality, he's only displacing our troops and spreading our influence more. We have influence in these areas currently, anyway... but the concentration of troops will be shifted. I mean, it even said so in his bio on CFR's website... but I was the one who was lying. So... he's not technically lying but he definitely is playing the word game and saying things that are true but not telling the entire story... the end result is making people believe he is going "to end the War on Errorism" when in fact he neither going to as president nor is he saying he is...
It always makes me mad when when people give praise for Obama for his views on the war. I've had arguments with many people who stated that Obama would end the war and bring our troops home. When in reality, he's only displacing our troops and spreading our influence more. We have influence in these areas currently, anyway... but the concentration of troops will be shifted. I mean, it even said so in his bio on CFR's website... but I was the one who was lying. So... he's not technically lying but he definitely is playing the word game and saying things that are true but not telling the entire story... the end result is making people believe he is going "to end the War on Errorism" when in fact he neither going to as president nor is he saying he is...
That is true...yet it is not.
Obviously Obama will not withdraw all the american troops from Iraq. Rather instead of having a massive army just bullying an entire nation into cooperation, he will rather have a select number of tactical units with specific goals in hunting Al Qaeda. He will leave a certain number of units in Iraq to help the their government but otherwise he will return the bulk of the military back home. Although it's true he never specified how many will remaind and how many will come back. He will obviously never be precise on the matter, probably as a way to appeal to both sides of the voters.
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It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
Although it's true he never specified how many will remaind and how many will come back. He will obviously never be precise on the matter, probably as a way to appeal to both sides of the voters.
Sort of, it has more to do with the fact that he just can't give specifics, because no one can - it's all filed under the "**** Happens" principle, and there are too many factors that can alter such things as specific numbers of troops withdrawn, etc. It is really "Airing on the side of caution." Not even the generals in the field can say for certain how many troops could be withdrawn at a given time, until the conditions could be predicted within a large enough margin of success.
Now, as to the whole "End of the War," it is ending the war in Iraq, but not ending the War on Terror. He wants to stop the bleeding (both literally and economically) in Iraq so that out forces can be sent to the areas they should have been in the first place - namely Afghanistan. I fully supported the War on Terror in concept - hunting down Al Qaeda wherever they are and putting them down - but the Bush administration cocked it up. If we had just stayed in Afghanistan and finished the little buggers of there, we would have been one step closer to victory. However we changed our horses midstream and then we went into Iraq, that lovely quagmire where we really are damned if we do and damned if we don't (win or lose). I agree that Iraq has to be stabilized to a point - really, the onus for running their government and getting back to the business of living as a nation is up to them. They have all that oil, and the money that goes along with it, now the infrastructure needs to be mended, a police and military force needs to be trained (though even with the bombings it shouldn't take 5 years to do this), and the government needs to look stable enough when we take our hands away. Their level of success is up to them at that point, and honestly 10 months from now the conditions should be right where our presence could be minimized to a few hundred, maybe a thousand, people operating within country for the specific purpose of routing the last of the terrorists. But spending billions upon billions of dollars in Iraq has to stop, and soon. China already pretty much owns us thanks to this.
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Basically, Obama's got a small bump in the polls due to the Democratic National Convention going on, but Biden has yet to make any real impact. This will, of course, change as people start to... find out... who Biden is... But of course we'll have to see whether the impact is positive or negative. I assume after the VP debates the real effect will be found.
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But spending billions upon billions of dollars in Iraq has to stop, and soon. China already pretty much owns us thanks to this.
The problem is we'll be borrowing from China in huge amounts regardless of who gets elected: McCain to fuel the war, Obama because he wants to take the money we're borrowing from China for Iraq and inject it into the economy. Either way, the deficit is going to rise.
This election's a no-brainer for me because I don't trust Obama as a commander-in-chief for one second. Do you people honestly think Obama has the ability to make the decisions that will win Afghanistan?
This election's a no-brainer for me because I don't trust Obama as a commander-in-chief for one second. Do you people honestly think Obama has the ability to make the decisions that will win Afghanistan?
Do you honestly think McCain does? Just because he was in the military once and he's running as a Republican doesn't automatically mean that he's capable either. My only impression of him so far is of a petulant, angry old man who's decided to sell out all of his beliefs for power. Not exactly who I would want with his finger on the launch button.
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What elections come down to, at least recently comes down to witch candidate messes up last.
Voters, and in particular, undecided voters have the shortest memories.
Everyone has forgotten about Obama's priest outburst.
Everyone has forgotten about the Paris Hilton Brittney Spears ad that backfired when it was found out that the Hilton parents donate money to McCane
People have forgot about Obama saying people cling to guns and religions.
People have forgotten about Mrs.McCane not wanting to reveal her tax returns.
There is a whole list of people have forgotten. As soon as the new poltical Gaffe happens they forget the previous one.
People who are almost certain who are they going to vote for, don't have as bad memories. At least for the mistake the opponent of there candidate do
I know who I am going to vote for. It will not change probably unless something dramatic happens. I did a lot of research with facts and what I believe well happen.
I hate Democrates, they don't seem to have the backbone to do things. Would rather talk about things then do it. Want to help everyone in the world and spends millions on people who don't want to work so we pay for them
I hate Republicans because they have a I'm right your wrong and I will tell what is right attitudes. They have a go it alone mentality. I feel the Republicans cater to the majority that will let them win. In the last 8 years I feel the Bush Administration is the most corrupt government we have had in a while
At the end of the day as longs people vote I don't care who they vote for. It seems like a third of the country is making choices for the rest of it. Then people complain about the way things are run.
JUST VOTE PLEASE
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I am the stone that the builder refused I am the visual, the inspiration, that made lady sing the blues I'm the spark that makes your idea bright The same spark that lights the dark so that you can know your left from your right I am the ballot in your box; the bullet in the gun That inner glow that lets you know to call your brother "son" The story that just begun, the promise of what's to come And I'mma remain a soldier til' the war is won
Do you honestly think McCain does? Just because he was in the military once and he's running as a Republican doesn't automatically mean that he's capable either.
No, none of those make him a capable Commander-in-chief. I'm relying more on the fact that that he's already made better decisions than Obama on foreign policy and it's not even November.
No, none of those make him a capable Commander-in-chief. I'm relying more on the fact that that he's already made better decisions than Obama on foreign policy and it's not even November.
Right, because getting into Iraq was an excellent foreign policy decision. So was over reacting about the Georgie-Russia conflict.
The problem is we'll be borrowing from China in huge amounts regardless of who gets elected: McCain to fuel the war, Obama because he wants to take the money we're borrowing from China for Iraq and inject it into the economy. Either way, the deficit is going to rise.
Hmmm... inject money into the economy or spend more on the war... gee, that's a toughie. Are you serious? Is that even a good comparison? Debt is debt yes, but if you take the money that you are borrowing and shore up your economic stability so that you can eventually pay off that debt, then you are being productive with the debt and eventually climbing out of it. Just digging yourself in deeper is not a good reaction, and Iraq is a great big hole from which we will not yield any profit - not enough to counter the massive debt we're in certainly.
Also, I see no qualities in McCain that make him a superior candidate, as he has only proven to be more petty, socially inept, and unable to inspire any confidence, plus he knows jack about the economy and is far less likely to improve the condition of our school system (which is very important to me). If slightly more foreign policy experience is his only claim to fame, I'll take the other side. When all factors are balanced against each other, McCain is simply a weak choice, and he definitely doesn't represent the people any better than Obama - they try to paint him as an elitist, but McCain isn't exactly down on his luck, either, what with seven homes and all that money his wife has.
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The problem is we'll be borrowing from China in huge amounts regardless of who gets elected: McCain to fuel the war, Obama because he wants to take the money we're borrowing from China for Iraq and inject it into the economy. Either way, the deficit is going to rise.
That's a vast oversimplification. McCain wants to spend money on Nuclear power, the Iraq war, alternative energy, etc. Obama wants to spend it on alternative energy, economic stimulus, the Afganistan war, etc. They're spending on different things, but they're both planning on heavy spending. From what I've read, Obama is planning on spending slightly more (with budget cuts considered), but not by much.
That's a vast oversimplification. McCain wants to spend money on Nuclear power, the Iraq war, alternative energy, etc. Obama wants to spend it on alternative energy, economic stimulus, the Afganistan war, etc. They're spending on different things, but they're both planning on heavy spending. From what I've read, Obama is planning on spending slightly more (with budget cuts considered), but not by much.
Obama's tax plan came in about a trillion dollars less then McCain's.
@ Highroller : The convention hasn't even started yet, so I don't know what you are talking about.
EDIT: HERE looks like the tax plan of McCain's is what leads to a trillion dollars more in debt.
@ Highroller : The convention hasn't even started yet, so I don't know what you are talking about.
Yeah, that should have said preparation from the DNC going on or something. The point is that the media is talking up a storm about it since it's around the corner. That may have been around the time I created Jock Bagel, so excuse any communication blunders on my part.
Yeah, that should have said preparation from the DNC going on or something. The point is that the media is talking up a storm about it since it's around the corner. That may have been around the time I created Jock Bagel, so excuse any communication blunders on my part.
Ah, well we shouldn't expect to see any kind of pre-convention bounce. Right after the convention should be when the impact on the polls is largest. Another thing to keep in mind is that it is right at this time that we will also see any kind of Biden impact (which is why it will be hard to decide upon exactly what his impact was).
From there the next big poll changers will be McCain's VP pic and convention.
Um... no he doesn't. He wants to pull out of Iraq - when exactly is still up in the air - but nothing he's said has indicated that the hunt for Osama bin Laden or the destruction of al-Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations will cease. Which is to his credit.
yeah, unfortunately that is true...and I should have been more specific
anyway, obviously, that does not change by president choice
Elaborate on the Georgia-Russia conflict overreaction?
He essentially said that NATO should accelerate Georgia's application so that they are immediately accepeted. Of course, an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all, so all NATO countries would have to heavily invest military aid into Georgia. source
Well, grim realities aside (and they are quite grim if we allow full Ukraine membership, I fully understand that fact), if we are going to stand for something, then we should actually, you know..stand for something.
If we are serious about moving ahead with the 21st century and all the warm-fuzzy-hugs of spreading democracy where totalitarianism existed before, then we actually have to be willing to back it up. No matter what happens, Russia will call our bluff. So. Shall we engage them or just hide our heads in the sand then? Note: I do agree we have many ways to engage them besides military option, and I think those are probably more effective...at this point. But that may change...
Obama's tax plan came in about a trillion dollars less then McCain's.
OK, you read a different article from a different tax group's findings. Whoop-dee-doo.
The point is that it's rediculous to claim Obama will be saving anything (which is what a lot of people think). Both canidates plan on spending heavily. Period.
*EDIT*
And this article is based soley on tax revenue, and not overall spending.
It probably is a mistake, but it's also increasingly obvious that this is what Clinton herself is angling for.
Never underestimate the pride, fickleness, and outright stupidity of the voting public. The Clintonites are quite capable of letting a Republican get into office just because they're bitter. And this is one area where Obama's media darling status may turn into a disadvantage. These diehards are seeing a lot of him and relatively little of McCain, which could diminish the Republican's perceived threat level and keep the old intra-Democratic fires burning - especially with what looks to be a vice-presidential snub.
Of course, when the Republican Convention rolls around and McCain announces his running mate, he'll jump back into the foreground. Only time will tell what the long-term effect of this will be.
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When the DNC is over, it will become concrete clear that Obama is the nominee even to the Clinton Camp. Never underestimate the power of time. In two months, they won't remember Hillary's bitter remarks, but they will remember the bush administration. And they'll vote.
BTW, I think that McCain's threat level is actually being raised right now, as his adds constantly bombard the olympic coverage.
The Hillary followers would be pissed that Obama chose anyone over Hillary. Believe it or not there are still some fanatics who still hope Hillary can somehow relaunch her presidential bid.
But I agree in the end they will make the right decision. Not because they will open their eyes and support Obama, but rather because they oppose McCain even more. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" as they say.
I know people like this. I gotta say that I personally don't mind that Obama didn't choose Clinton for the VP selection, though I know people who actually will NOT vote Obama due to this development; and yes, it is those fanatics that you're talking about. Anyway, doesn't matter to me because I pretty much have to vote Obama, even if I don't like all of his policies, simply because he wants to end the War on Errorism.
Um... no he doesn't. He wants to pull out of Iraq - when exactly is still up in the air - but nothing he's said has indicated that the hunt for Osama bin Laden or the destruction of al-Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations will cease. Which is to his credit.
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That is true...yet it is not.
Obviously Obama will not withdraw all the american troops from Iraq. Rather instead of having a massive army just bullying an entire nation into cooperation, he will rather have a select number of tactical units with specific goals in hunting Al Qaeda. He will leave a certain number of units in Iraq to help the their government but otherwise he will return the bulk of the military back home. Although it's true he never specified how many will remaind and how many will come back. He will obviously never be precise on the matter, probably as a way to appeal to both sides of the voters.
Sort of, it has more to do with the fact that he just can't give specifics, because no one can - it's all filed under the "**** Happens" principle, and there are too many factors that can alter such things as specific numbers of troops withdrawn, etc. It is really "Airing on the side of caution." Not even the generals in the field can say for certain how many troops could be withdrawn at a given time, until the conditions could be predicted within a large enough margin of success.
Now, as to the whole "End of the War," it is ending the war in Iraq, but not ending the War on Terror. He wants to stop the bleeding (both literally and economically) in Iraq so that out forces can be sent to the areas they should have been in the first place - namely Afghanistan. I fully supported the War on Terror in concept - hunting down Al Qaeda wherever they are and putting them down - but the Bush administration cocked it up. If we had just stayed in Afghanistan and finished the little buggers of there, we would have been one step closer to victory. However we changed our horses midstream and then we went into Iraq, that lovely quagmire where we really are damned if we do and damned if we don't (win or lose). I agree that Iraq has to be stabilized to a point - really, the onus for running their government and getting back to the business of living as a nation is up to them. They have all that oil, and the money that goes along with it, now the infrastructure needs to be mended, a police and military force needs to be trained (though even with the bombings it shouldn't take 5 years to do this), and the government needs to look stable enough when we take our hands away. Their level of success is up to them at that point, and honestly 10 months from now the conditions should be right where our presence could be minimized to a few hundred, maybe a thousand, people operating within country for the specific purpose of routing the last of the terrorists. But spending billions upon billions of dollars in Iraq has to stop, and soon. China already pretty much owns us thanks to this.
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Basically, Obama's got a small bump in the polls due to the Democratic National Convention going on, but Biden has yet to make any real impact. This will, of course, change as people start to... find out... who Biden is... But of course we'll have to see whether the impact is positive or negative. I assume after the VP debates the real effect will be found.
The problem is we'll be borrowing from China in huge amounts regardless of who gets elected: McCain to fuel the war, Obama because he wants to take the money we're borrowing from China for Iraq and inject it into the economy. Either way, the deficit is going to rise.
This election's a no-brainer for me because I don't trust Obama as a commander-in-chief for one second. Do you people honestly think Obama has the ability to make the decisions that will win Afghanistan?
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Voters, and in particular, undecided voters have the shortest memories.
Everyone has forgotten about Obama's priest outburst.
Everyone has forgotten about the Paris Hilton Brittney Spears ad that backfired when it was found out that the Hilton parents donate money to McCane
People have forgot about Obama saying people cling to guns and religions.
People have forgotten about Mrs.McCane not wanting to reveal her tax returns.
There is a whole list of people have forgotten. As soon as the new poltical Gaffe happens they forget the previous one.
People who are almost certain who are they going to vote for, don't have as bad memories. At least for the mistake the opponent of there candidate do
I know who I am going to vote for. It will not change probably unless something dramatic happens. I did a lot of research with facts and what I believe well happen.
I hate Democrates, they don't seem to have the backbone to do things. Would rather talk about things then do it. Want to help everyone in the world and spends millions on people who don't want to work so we pay for them
I hate Republicans because they have a I'm right your wrong and I will tell what is right attitudes. They have a go it alone mentality. I feel the Republicans cater to the majority that will let them win. In the last 8 years I feel the Bush Administration is the most corrupt government we have had in a while
At the end of the day as longs people vote I don't care who they vote for. It seems like a third of the country is making choices for the rest of it. Then people complain about the way things are run.
JUST VOTE PLEASE
No, none of those make him a capable Commander-in-chief. I'm relying more on the fact that that he's already made better decisions than Obama on foreign policy and it's not even November.
Right, because getting into Iraq was an excellent foreign policy decision. So was over reacting about the Georgie-Russia conflict.
Because Obama had a vote in it...?
Hmmm... inject money into the economy or spend more on the war... gee, that's a toughie. Are you serious? Is that even a good comparison? Debt is debt yes, but if you take the money that you are borrowing and shore up your economic stability so that you can eventually pay off that debt, then you are being productive with the debt and eventually climbing out of it. Just digging yourself in deeper is not a good reaction, and Iraq is a great big hole from which we will not yield any profit - not enough to counter the massive debt we're in certainly.
Also, I see no qualities in McCain that make him a superior candidate, as he has only proven to be more petty, socially inept, and unable to inspire any confidence, plus he knows jack about the economy and is far less likely to improve the condition of our school system (which is very important to me). If slightly more foreign policy experience is his only claim to fame, I'll take the other side. When all factors are balanced against each other, McCain is simply a weak choice, and he definitely doesn't represent the people any better than Obama - they try to paint him as an elitist, but McCain isn't exactly down on his luck, either, what with seven homes and all that money his wife has.
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That's a vast oversimplification. McCain wants to spend money on Nuclear power, the Iraq war, alternative energy, etc. Obama wants to spend it on alternative energy, economic stimulus, the Afganistan war, etc. They're spending on different things, but they're both planning on heavy spending. From what I've read, Obama is planning on spending slightly more (with budget cuts considered), but not by much.
Obama's tax plan came in about a trillion dollars less then McCain's.
@ Highroller : The convention hasn't even started yet, so I don't know what you are talking about.
EDIT:
HERE looks like the tax plan of McCain's is what leads to a trillion dollars more in debt.
- Enslaught
Elaborate on the Georgia-Russia conflict overreaction?
Yeah, that should have said preparation from the DNC going on or something. The point is that the media is talking up a storm about it since it's around the corner. That may have been around the time I created Jock Bagel, so excuse any communication blunders on my part.
Ah, well we shouldn't expect to see any kind of pre-convention bounce. Right after the convention should be when the impact on the polls is largest. Another thing to keep in mind is that it is right at this time that we will also see any kind of Biden impact (which is why it will be hard to decide upon exactly what his impact was).
From there the next big poll changers will be McCain's VP pic and convention.
- Enslaught
yeah, unfortunately that is true...and I should have been more specific
anyway, obviously, that does not change by president choice
He essentially said that NATO should accelerate Georgia's application so that they are immediately accepeted. Of course, an attack on one NATO country is an attack on all, so all NATO countries would have to heavily invest military aid into Georgia. source
If we are serious about moving ahead with the 21st century and all the warm-fuzzy-hugs of spreading democracy where totalitarianism existed before, then we actually have to be willing to back it up. No matter what happens, Russia will call our bluff. So. Shall we engage them or just hide our heads in the sand then? Note: I do agree we have many ways to engage them besides military option, and I think those are probably more effective...at this point. But that may change...
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"Unfortunately"? What, did you like 9/11?
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OK, you read a different article from a different tax group's findings. Whoop-dee-doo.
The point is that it's rediculous to claim Obama will be saving anything (which is what a lot of people think). Both canidates plan on spending heavily. Period.
*EDIT*
And this article is based soley on tax revenue, and not overall spending.