Assume, if you will, that Iran reaches the capability to produce nuclear weapons in the next few years. What happens then? How do you go about dealing with a nation that wants you and your closest ally demolished? Diplomacy? Assassination?
The response to a nuclear attack on the US or Israel is quite easy to determine, and to justify, but what do you think is the most viable solution to prevent that from happening? Nothing we (or the U.N.) are doing is working, or so it seems, and Ahmadinejad seems to have nothing (or very little) to lose.
Well, I don't seem how it's any different from the Cold War, with the exception that we're now capable of building so called, "suitcase nukes." They won't attack us, simply because they know they'll get jacked up. Not to mention that we're kind of far from them and they'd have to work out a way to get the warheads all the way to us. Because building an ICBM, is quite different than building a nuclear weapon.
The thing is though, they're not going to change wanting to kill us as a people, we've done too much, in their eyes to tarnish their honor. And after all their's is an honor-based society.
The thing is though, they're not going to change wanting to kill us as a people, we've done too much, in their eyes to tarnish their honor. And after all their's is an honor-based society.
I would disagree with them being an honor-based society, but since honor, like all societal inventions, varies from place to place, it could be, though I will state that it's certianly not what the average person would consider to be "honor".
Anyway, it's like that movie/book, "The Mouse that Roared" in which a tiny country attacks the US so that the US can demolish their country and they can rebuild their country with all the war-reparation aid money. While I don't think Iran is in quite a desperate situation such as that, I do believe that this ia an attempt for Iran, which has not been well known for it's power or world-relevence, to get attention.
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Hi, I'm David. I kill Iran threads. The following post is why.
The more I hear Hitler Jr. spew his hatred the more I'm convinced that:
-The only way to deal with this is military action.
-Israel will become a nuclear crater the moment the modern-day Third Reich gets a nuke (and don't give me that "peaceful use" bull****; they're sitting on assloads of natural fuel that they use).
The neo-Third Reich does not care about MAD because of their sand people ideology: they don't care about dying so long as they accomplish their goal before they do so. The only way to deal with Hitler II and his gang of sand clerics is to take military action.
And invoke Godwin's Law all you want, I know that this nation will start World War III if left unchecked.
And yes, I sound like a hateful person myself when I refer to Muslims as "sand people." I don't care. They deserve more scorn, as far as I'm concerned.
(snip)
-The only way to deal with this is military action.
-Israel will become a nuclear crater the moment the modern-day Third Reich gets a nuke (and don't give me that "peaceful use" bull****; they're sitting on assloads of natural fuel that they use).
(snip)
Wow, are you serious? I think you're trolling here, but whatever. I certainly don't agree with your name-calling, but I think that Iran is definitely a major power to reckon with in the Middle East. I agree with Tanthalas's comments on what Iran currently is, and I think it worth reading RockHydra's thread on Iran. It makes sense to me that Iran wants to dominate the region, but to resort to the vitriol you exhibit is not a good thing.
Just my $0.02.
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The ordinary Iranian people just want to see some domestic relief. Poverty and unemployment is skyrocketing there as Ahmadinejad is grandstanding in the world stage. In the past, general human rights indices there have been up and down, certainly better than some places, but on average not much better; now they are seriously absent. Yes, public polls querying average Iranians about their attitudes towards Israel and America reflect a hostile bunch, and it is genuine, not just lipservice to the state. But there is growing dissent with the state and the asinine lengths it will go to in controlling the flow of ideas and industry. Somehow common sense has to return at some point. I think a critical mass of ordinary moderate Iranians are sick of the situation and trying their luck being outspoken against a wasteful despot while the world has its eyes on the country. Well-meaning expatriates can't do it all, it has to come from inside to have any validity with their neighbors.
Wow, are you serious? I think you're trolling here, but whatever.
I'm dead ****ing serious... I hate this nation with a passion because they want to destroy a nation that does not pose a direct threat to them (kind of like Nazi Germany). However, you wouldn't know that since you haven't been present for the worst of my rants.
I certainly don't agree with your name-calling, but I think that Iran is definitely a major power to reckon with in the Middle East.
They shouldn't be, as their goals are built on hatred and the spread of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. Oh, and the destruction of a sovereign friggin' nation.
It makes sense to me that Iran wants to dominate the region, but to resort to the vitriol you exhibit is not a good thing.
I'm not concerned with them wanting to dominate the region, I'm concerned with them destroying Israel, which they will do the moment they get a nuclear weapon, no questions asked. This is a nation that does not deserve power in the region because they will use it as a breeding ground for fundamentalism and hatred.
Edit: To address Snoop: I don't know the average Iranian's sentiments towards Israel, but the younger generation of Iranians, from what I've heard, actually have a positive image of America. Whether they will take matters into their own hands is unclear, but I doubt it.
Even if Iran had the means to produce Nuclear weapons right now, the only place the only places they would be able to attack are Israel and maybe the “new” Iraq, and anyone else in the Middle East/Asia(Though I think they would get many allies their with no need to put a gun to anyone’s head). They can’t reach the North America, Europe, or Africa. The 24 “suitcase” bomb is in TV and movies; you have to remember they would have to find a way to get it to their target. I can only assume security would be able to find a bomb on a plan or boat. To protect America I would increase harbor protection. This means inspect every foreign, trade commercial, and passenger boat. Making sure no fights come directly from the Middle East and must pass though addition security checkpoints would help cut the possibility of one getting onto a plane. Resolution can be reached diplomatically; war should only be the final solution. Presumptive Genocide is a horrible foreign polity in my honest opinion. Side Rant:
I dislike the term “Islamic fundamentalism” for the fact that it makes I seem that terrorism is the base of Islam. In reality, most if not all of the terrorist actions have been against Islamic beliefs. Suicide bombing, the killing of women and children, the killing of fellow Muslims, just to name a few, are all against Islam.
Even if Iran had the means to produce Nuclear weapons right now, the only place the only places they would be able to attack are Israel and maybe the “new” Iraq, and anyone else in the Middle East/Asia(Though I think they would get many allies their with no need to put a gun to anyone’s head). They can’t reach the North America, Europe, or Africa.
They're not trying to reach North America or other continents right now. Their main target is Israel, and that's damaging enough.
Resolution can be reached diplomatically; war should only be the final solution.
The final step for a diplomatic solution- UN sanctions, which have been approved by the Security Council- isn't phasing them in the least. They're still going ahead with their "peaceful" nuclear program. If they're so hellbent on going ahead with this, then it obviously isn't peaceful. They're due to get a nuke within two years, and they've already shown that nothing's stopping them, not even international sanctions. They want war, which I think we should give to those ****ing mullahs.
Side Rant:
I dislike the term “Islamic fundamentalism” for the fact that it makes I seem that terrorism is the base of Islam. In reality, most if not all of the terrorist actions have been against Islamic beliefs. Suicide bombing, the killing of women and children, the killing of fellow Muslims, just to name a few, are all against Islam.
I'm no Koran scholar, so I can't argue with you (as much as I'd like to)... let's just call it Islamic perversion and call it a day.
I think the UN needs to play a more active role in investigating their nuclear program. Not just discourage them and hope they don't make nukes, but actually working with the to help get power plants, while not allowing them to venture into nuclear weaponry. It takes a global effort to control nuclear activates. All countries should be allowed to partake in the benefits of nuclear technology, while nuclear weapons should be heavily controlled, regulated, and removed.
Side Rant:
I dislike the term “Islamic fundamentalism” for the fact that it makes I seem that terrorism is the base of Islam. In reality, most if not all of the terrorist actions have been against Islamic beliefs. Suicide bombing, the killing of women and children, the killing of fellow Muslims, just to name a few, are all against Islam.
I'm no Koran scholar, so I can't argue with you (as much as I'd like to)... let's just call it Islamic perversion and call it a day.
Islamic fundamentalism is the less preferred, yet often more widely used term for "Islamism." Islamism is a neologism for a political ideology which warps Islam from being merely a religion to also a political system. It is used to denote Islamic Muslims who are violently opposed to Western influence as they strickly believe that Western culture inherently destroys faith and cultural identity. In short, they think the community of Islam would degrade and eventually pass into history.
A quote from Daniel Pipes, Ph.D. Harvard, Early Islamic History:
Quote from Dr. Pipes »
Militant Islam derives from Islam but is a misanthropic, misogynist, triumphalist, millenarian, anti-modern, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, terroristic, jihadistic, and suicidal version of it. Fortunately, it appeals to only about 10 percent to 15 percent* of Muslims, meaning that a substantial majority would prefer a more moderate version.
*(That 10-15% is around 100-150 million people worldwide)
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I agree with M_W that if Iran gets nukes, Israel is the first to go, and that Ahmedinejad will not care what happens to Iran afterward.
Iran's goal is not "peaceful" nuclear power. When Iran's president vows to wipe away Israel in one final storm, and then pursues nuclear power when he's got all the oil in the world, and will not cooperate with the UN or put the plan on hold to talk about it, obviously there's an ulterior motive. And that motive isn't too hard to find--just listen to Ahmedinejad's speeches to his own people, not the lying and sucking up to the UN and US.
Quote from Tanthalas »
Take the exact same scenario and replace Iran with the US (or Canada, or the UK, or anyone else). Would that mean that they were obviously hellbent on war? Or would you possibly think that they wanted to be allowed to run their domestic affairs how they want without outside interference?
Does the US or Canada or the UK have a fanatical leader who has vowed to wipe a country off the face of the earth and refuses to cooperate and show conclucisvely that he's not building bombs? I thought not.
Also, I don't care if the nukes can't reach America--I care about Israel more.
Um.... I don't want to read something into this that you didn't intend, but at face value... that's a rather disturbing statement.
I think he says that because it's the only place where there is an official Jewish homeland. I care more about my country, but Israel is a place where Jews can live in peace with other Jews. If Iran wipes it out, which they undoubtedly will try to because they don't care about being blown up, they will also blow up a model nation. Which is why Iran needs to be overthrown.
Also I doubt an Arabic nation is willing to drop a nuclear weapon on ground that is for them holy.
Iran is not an Arabic nation. In fact, Iranians despise Arabs. In reading this thread I can see most people are entirely ignorant on the subject of Iran, it's history and their intentions.
Iran is not an Arabic nation. In fact, Iranians despise Arabs. In reading this thread I can see most people are entirely ignorant on the subject of Iran, it's history and their intentions.
The fact is they are still Muslim so the same holy sites should be apllicable. Wether or not they are Persian or Arab or Turkish, that land is holy land for Muslims.
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Do threads in this forum ever not get hijacked by the magical invisible hand of the market guys?
I don’t believe that we need to be concerned about Iran deveping nuclear weapons I don’t think that Israel will let that happen they will most likely do something similar to what they did in the early 80’s to Iraq if they don’t and a nuclear war starts in the middle east In my opinion better now when they are short range than later when they have global reach at least the Middle East will be a very quite neighborhood for a very long time.
Scott Adams... Nothing defines humans better than their willingness to do irrational things in the pursuit of phenomenally unlikely payoffs. This is the principle behind lotteries, dating, and religion
I don’t believe that we need to be concerned about Iran deveping nuclear weapons I don’t think that Israel will let that happen they will most likely do something similar to what they did in the early 80’s to Iraq if they don’t and a nuclear war starts in the middle east
In my opinion better now when they are short range than later when they have global reach at least the Middle East will be a very quite neighborhood for a very long time.
however i do believe we need to be concerned about your total lack of punctuation as i cant stand reading someones post that rambles on in this way as it makes them look silly
*sheesh*
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however i do believe we need to be concerned about your total lack of punctuation as i cant stand reading someones post that rambles on in this way as it makes them look silly
*sheesh*
havent you heard
the way in which one punctuates and capitalizes has become a medium for individual self expression instead of a set of restricting or even fascist stylistic rules
for instance now i am expressing my inner semiliterate loser which had been repressed since first grade
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This is a ridiculous statement, and you know it is. To suggest that all of Iran (hell, even that a majority of Iranians) would happily get blown up if they could take Israel with them is so obviously wrong that I don't even know why I'm refuting it. It's pretty much suggesting that the entire nation of Iran is nothing more than a group of suicide bombers on a grand scale.
The majority of the Iranian people might not want to be sacrificed (as a majority they hate the scum at the top and actually like America), but the fanatical government, made up of fundamentalists, could give a crap less.
Despite Ahmedinejad's fanaticism (which appears to be at least partly overplayed to shore up his more right-wing support), he doesn't have sole control of anything. He's a president, not a lifetime dictator. He'd have to get past the government, the army, the mullahs, and Khameini to be able to launch nukes at Israel. You can probably add in millions of rioters who don't want to be blown to oblivion to the list of obstacles. It's not gonna happen.
a. I'll bet that the scummy "religious figures" would love nothing more than to keep Hitler Jr. in place for a loooooong time, since he shares their views.
b. Why would any of the parties you mentioned give him any resistance? He's the guy the so-called ayatollahs would have loved to have gotten a long time ago as president. Again, they share his hate-filled, Hitler-esque plan for the destruction of Israel and the denial of fact.
@Blinking Spirit: My hatemongering is justified, thank you very much. Somebody needs to trash on them because they're also hatemongers.
@sneaky: Israel is certainly a model that other Middle Eastern nations could learn from.
Assume, if you will, that Iran reaches the capability to produce nuclear weapons in the next few years. What happens then? How do you go about dealing with a nation that wants you and your closest ally demolished? Diplomacy? Assassination?
At that point you no longer have the upper hand and must maintain a sort of armed neutrality with that nation. This is why there will be a growing clamor for war with Iran the closer it gets to obtaining this weapon. However, a war with Iran is desired by the U.S./Israeli elite whether or not they seek this weapon: which is why they are seeking it in the first place.
The response to a nuclear attack on the US or Israel is quite easy to determine, and to justify, but what do you think is the most viable solution to prevent that from happening? Nothing we (or the U.N.) are doing is working, or so it seems, and Ahmadinejad seems to have nothing (or very little) to lose.
Perhaps the best route to go here is to recognize that Iran will in fact obtain this weapon. Thus we must withdraw entirely from the middle east by tomorrow (the day after that at the latest) and cease all funding to all middle eastern states, Israel in particular. Whatever your feelings for the State of Israel, it is much, much more than capable of defending itself by now.
I hope Iran does develop nukes because it will hopefully get Israel and the U.S. to back off. Israel is the only Jewish country in the Middle East and yet they are trying to be the power house for the Middle East. I hope that Iran doesn't use its nukes and never has too. Israel is trying to take over to much of the Middle East especially when it come to Jurusulum. If Iran stands down and and backs off saying they have no nukes or they won't make any they're going to wind up just like Iraq. Iraq said they had no nukes they let the U.S. inspectors search yet U.S. invaded them. U.S. knows Iran means business now and if they try to invade there will be a war.
Another obligatory link.
Assume, if you will, that Iran reaches the capability to produce nuclear weapons in the next few years. What happens then? How do you go about dealing with a nation that wants you and your closest ally demolished? Diplomacy? Assassination?
The response to a nuclear attack on the US or Israel is quite easy to determine, and to justify, but what do you think is the most viable solution to prevent that from happening? Nothing we (or the U.N.) are doing is working, or so it seems, and Ahmadinejad seems to have nothing (or very little) to lose.
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This is a sig. Yes it is.
The thing is though, they're not going to change wanting to kill us as a people, we've done too much, in their eyes to tarnish their honor. And after all their's is an honor-based society.
I would disagree with them being an honor-based society, but since honor, like all societal inventions, varies from place to place, it could be, though I will state that it's certianly not what the average person would consider to be "honor".
Anyway, it's like that movie/book, "The Mouse that Roared" in which a tiny country attacks the US so that the US can demolish their country and they can rebuild their country with all the war-reparation aid money. While I don't think Iran is in quite a desperate situation such as that, I do believe that this ia an attempt for Iran, which has not been well known for it's power or world-relevence, to get attention.
WAnglesW
WUBRGThe BroodGRBUW
WUGAllymillGUW
The more I hear Hitler Jr. spew his hatred the more I'm convinced that:
-The only way to deal with this is military action.
-Israel will become a nuclear crater the moment the modern-day Third Reich gets a nuke (and don't give me that "peaceful use" bull****; they're sitting on assloads of natural fuel that they use).
The neo-Third Reich does not care about MAD because of their sand people ideology: they don't care about dying so long as they accomplish their goal before they do so. The only way to deal with Hitler II and his gang of sand clerics is to take military action.
And invoke Godwin's Law all you want, I know that this nation will start World War III if left unchecked.
And yes, I sound like a hateful person myself when I refer to Muslims as "sand people." I don't care. They deserve more scorn, as far as I'm concerned.
Mortal Wombat, you disappoint me.
Just my $0.02.
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I'm dead ****ing serious... I hate this nation with a passion because they want to destroy a nation that does not pose a direct threat to them (kind of like Nazi Germany). However, you wouldn't know that since you haven't been present for the worst of my rants.
They shouldn't be, as their goals are built on hatred and the spread of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. Oh, and the destruction of a sovereign friggin' nation.
I'm not concerned with them wanting to dominate the region, I'm concerned with them destroying Israel, which they will do the moment they get a nuclear weapon, no questions asked. This is a nation that does not deserve power in the region because they will use it as a breeding ground for fundamentalism and hatred.
Edit: To address Snoop: I don't know the average Iranian's sentiments towards Israel, but the younger generation of Iranians, from what I've heard, actually have a positive image of America. Whether they will take matters into their own hands is unclear, but I doubt it.
Side Rant:
I dislike the term “Islamic fundamentalism” for the fact that it makes I seem that terrorism is the base of Islam. In reality, most if not all of the terrorist actions have been against Islamic beliefs. Suicide bombing, the killing of women and children, the killing of fellow Muslims, just to name a few, are all against Islam.
They're not trying to reach North America or other continents right now. Their main target is Israel, and that's damaging enough.
The final step for a diplomatic solution- UN sanctions, which have been approved by the Security Council- isn't phasing them in the least. They're still going ahead with their "peaceful" nuclear program. If they're so hellbent on going ahead with this, then it obviously isn't peaceful. They're due to get a nuke within two years, and they've already shown that nothing's stopping them, not even international sanctions. They want war, which I think we should give to those ****ing mullahs.
I'm no Koran scholar, so I can't argue with you (as much as I'd like to)... let's just call it Islamic perversion and call it a day.
Islamic fundamentalism is the less preferred, yet often more widely used term for "Islamism." Islamism is a neologism for a political ideology which warps Islam from being merely a religion to also a political system. It is used to denote Islamic Muslims who are violently opposed to Western influence as they strickly believe that Western culture inherently destroys faith and cultural identity. In short, they think the community of Islam would degrade and eventually pass into history.
A quote from Daniel Pipes, Ph.D. Harvard, Early Islamic History:
*(That 10-15% is around 100-150 million people worldwide)
Sig by Sash of deviantART
FEAR THE SPEAR
ARSENAL F.C.
USA
Iran's goal is not "peaceful" nuclear power. When Iran's president vows to wipe away Israel in one final storm, and then pursues nuclear power when he's got all the oil in the world, and will not cooperate with the UN or put the plan on hold to talk about it, obviously there's an ulterior motive. And that motive isn't too hard to find--just listen to Ahmedinejad's speeches to his own people, not the lying and sucking up to the UN and US.
Does the US or Canada or the UK have a fanatical leader who has vowed to wipe a country off the face of the earth and refuses to cooperate and show conclucisvely that he's not building bombs? I thought not.
Also, I don't care if the nukes can't reach America--I care about Israel more.
Um.... I don't want to read something into this that you didn't intend, but at face value... that's a rather disturbing statement.
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I think he says that because it's the only place where there is an official Jewish homeland. I care more about my country, but Israel is a place where Jews can live in peace with other Jews. If Iran wipes it out, which they undoubtedly will try to because they don't care about being blown up, they will also blow up a model nation. Which is why Iran needs to be overthrown.
Iran is not an Arabic nation. In fact, Iranians despise Arabs. In reading this thread I can see most people are entirely ignorant on the subject of Iran, it's history and their intentions.
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The fact is they are still Muslim so the same holy sites should be apllicable. Wether or not they are Persian or Arab or Turkish, that land is holy land for Muslims.
Me too.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
*sheesh*
Trade with me - over 130 refs!!
havent you heard
the way in which one punctuates and capitalizes has become a medium for individual self expression instead of a set of restricting or even fascist stylistic rules
for instance now i am expressing my inner semiliterate loser which had been repressed since first grade
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The majority of the Iranian people might not want to be sacrificed (as a majority they hate the scum at the top and actually like America), but the fanatical government, made up of fundamentalists, could give a crap less.
a. I'll bet that the scummy "religious figures" would love nothing more than to keep Hitler Jr. in place for a loooooong time, since he shares their views.
b. Why would any of the parties you mentioned give him any resistance? He's the guy the so-called ayatollahs would have loved to have gotten a long time ago as president. Again, they share his hate-filled, Hitler-esque plan for the destruction of Israel and the denial of fact.
@Blinking Spirit: My hatemongering is justified, thank you very much. Somebody needs to trash on them because they're also hatemongers.
@sneaky: Israel is certainly a model that other Middle Eastern nations could learn from.
The irony kills me every time.
Can I start insulting Christians and Jews, Blinking Spirit? (Anybody got any good ones?)
That may actually be true (I'm not saying one way or the other), but justified
≠ appropriate.
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She knows why.
At that point you no longer have the upper hand and must maintain a sort of armed neutrality with that nation. This is why there will be a growing clamor for war with Iran the closer it gets to obtaining this weapon. However, a war with Iran is desired by the U.S./Israeli elite whether or not they seek this weapon: which is why they are seeking it in the first place.
Perhaps the best route to go here is to recognize that Iran will in fact obtain this weapon. Thus we must withdraw entirely from the middle east by tomorrow (the day after that at the latest) and cease all funding to all middle eastern states, Israel in particular. Whatever your feelings for the State of Israel, it is much, much more than capable of defending itself by now.
If you're worried about U.S. being hit by nukes you really shouldn't be they already have missile interceptors and they're making some really cool stuff.
http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/weapon-zone-1.html
Goto the videos section.