However F1 showed unexpected insights when he noticed such subtleties from Asen and Tar conversation about fingers not in like in a good way, because it seems like inside information. I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
How about we reveal our top suspects to hopefully reach a consensus? I'm fine with a lynch of either Kpaca (for previous reasons) or Che (I quite like the case against him).
Now this right here reads as scum. Starts out wishy-washy and then wants scum lists. This is scum trying to maneuver a different lynch.
DRey/Che interactions deserve being looked at if either flips scum.
Forgotten One is flailing, but it seems more like harassed town flailing than scum flailing. It reminds me of other day 1 town lynches.
What people need is force and with that, Vote: DRey
DRey is now at L-Tar, so, should he be claiming now? (Please say, "yes," Tar. -I both want him to be lynched and you to confirm your ability, so let's kill two birds with three hands here.)
Che, two questions before I drop my response to your last posts:
1) Do you still think dC is scum? If so, why? If not, when did you decide differently and why?
2) Why have you stopped pushing me re: my use of the HoS?
To the underlined: How so? By my read the "wagon" (if you call two players a wagon - yes, I have my triple vote, but still) started because players perceived that you weren't posting actual content, just fluff. The "we should lynch someone, might as well be kpaca" comments led to Nis's wagon, not yours.
Hell, take a good look, especially at the underlined:
Oh believe me, I'm contributing. But if people are going to build a wagon on me based on nothing (I mean really, this wagon started on the theory we should lynch me just because we have to lynch somebody so it might as well be kpaca) and then a few scum are gonna run with it and everyone else jst wants to watch.....well **** I wanna watch it all happen to.
By my read, kpaca's saying that the scum *haven't joined the wagon on him yet* - he's anticipating that scum will pile onto the wagon now that a couple of people have built a miniwagon.
However F1 showed unexpected insights when he noticed such subtleties from Asen and Tar conversation about fingers not in like in a good way, because it seems like inside information. I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
How about we reveal our top suspects to hopefully reach a consensus? I'm fine with a lynch of either Kpaca (for previous reasons) or Che (I quite like the case against him).
Wait a minute. So, first you say that a triple voter cannot be scum... but then you say that you think that F1 is right about Asen having insider knowledge of my role? Then you say that you're against a wagon on Asen or myself.... while leaving yourself an escape hatch if you want to come back to us later? And you want a scum list (which as often as not boils down to "let's appear to participate/scumhunt while we figure out who suspects us so we can off them tonight")? Explain, please.
DRey is now at L-Tar, so, should he be claiming now? (Please say, "yes," Tar. -I both want him to be lynched and you to confirm your ability, so let's kill two birds with three hands here.)
Why the rush? Is there any particular reason to lynch DRey immediately as opposed to closer to deadline?
I didn't neglect to quote. Check my 133 again. Here's the relevant section:
Okay, I see that the section I was asking about was included in the previous quote chunk. I must have just focused on the underlined part of that block when reading it. But even so...
By my read, kpaca's saying that the scum *haven't joined the wagon on him yet* - he's anticipating that scum will pile onto the wagon now that a couple of people have built a miniwagon.
I don't think it reads like that at all. -I mean, I understand what you are seeing now, but I think you are reading that too linearly.
Why the rush? Is there any particular reason to lynch DRey immediately as opposed to closer to deadline?
Oh, I wasn't saying "lynch him right now!" -I was more asking for your thoughts on the wagon, and if you thought he should be claiming. -Because if you are interested in that lynch, then we can get the ball rolling on post-claim discussion.
-I literally forgot about the DRey wagon because I don't think DRey is scum and figured the people on his wagon would move on eventually on their own. I never took that wagon very seriously. It was my bad, but I make mistakes.
Ok, now onward to read the rest of your post.
Fair enough on most of that, except the quoted bit. That sounds a lot like rubbishing DRey's wagon for no good reason.
You 'never took that wagon very seriously'? That wagon consists of kpaca, KCC, and myself. (And now AtheistGod.) The three most experienced MTGS players in this game.
I can't really answer over analysed posts because they are over analysed. Call it whatever you want.
While I agree somewhat on the overanalysis point, the fact remains that handwaving like that doesn't feel like a townie response. I don't get any indignation or surprise or annoyance from that handwave at all - in fact, it felt more like a classic defensive action.
I was questioning. In fact, I questioned a bit until my vote on Nis. I got the most solid read from Nis' posts compared to the others agreeing with the kpaca policy.
A quick look through your 27 posts this game shows that out of the four people anywhere near associated with the kpaca wagon - Nis, Asenion, DRey, Forgotten One - the only person you questioned at all was Nis, the one who didn't vote at all. Not DRey, who clearly had the most scummy vote on that wagon. Not Forgotten One, who jumped off at a questionable point. And only one throwaway question that had absolutely nothing to do with the kpaca wagon at Asenion, who technically started the whole thing with his RVS vote and fake daykill.
That isn't a pattern of questioning suspects and deciding who to vote. It's a pattern of running down a perceived easy target.
There was a post by I would not like to get into it at this point but save it for later. Its the reason I voted him 100% serious. Its only a single post and I must stress that it is very important I save it for later because it will confirm him as scum if my thoughts are right.
DRey's at 4 votes. If you were to vote him (which you aren't), he would be at L-2. And heck, even at the time of this post DRey had been at 3 votes for ages. If whatever this is can 'confirm him as scum', what in the world are you still waiting for?
What the hell are you talking about? I responded to your question already.
Nice try. My initial question was here, in post #90. Your initial response and counterquestion were here, in #97. I brought up Hamlet Mafia here, in #112. Your answer to that (the rather dissembling one) was here, in post #118. I explained and confirmed my suspicions here, in post #130.
...and then after that you start ignoring me and do nothing but go after Asenion.
My assumption is that if he's scum, there is something else about his role that he's not telling us that would balance it out (I can think of three ways of doing it just off the top of my head). Otherwise, the setup was broken to begin with. My other assumption is that in this game, up is down, left is right, and whatever we think we know about whether a role is obv-Town or obv-Scum is kinda out the door. The other thing to consider is that if he's lying scum, who knows what his role actually is.
You're trying to push circular logic of the worst kind here, starting at the assumption that Taredas is scum. On top of that, you're making a pile of 'assumptions' that are unwise at best and outright dangerous at worst to make on day 1, with no information.
I don't believe you can honestly be making all of these ridiculous assumptions. You're trying to justify what you know to be unjustifiable.
However F1 showed unexpected insights when he noticed such subtleties from Asen and Tar conversation about fingers not in like in a good way, because it seems like inside information. I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
How about we reveal our top suspects to hopefully reach a consensus? I'm fine with a lynch of either Kpaca (for previous reasons) or Che (I quite like the case against him).
You're still blatantly ignoring me. You still haven't provided any half-decent reasons, previous or not, to lynch kpaca. And you're continuing your pattern of being subtly supportive of Forgotten One.
That's three strikes. You need to die.
------------------
DRey needs to die. I'd also be perfectly happy with voting Forgotten One.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Taredas still feels like scum but I'll let him prove his ability twice. (can't let 1-shot abilities clear scum)
Unvote
Now this right here reads as scum. Starts out wishy-washy and then wants scum lists. This is scum trying to maneuver a different lynch.
DRey/Che interactions deserve being looked at if either flips scum.
Forgotten One is flailing, but it seems more like harassed town flailing than scum flailing. It reminds me of other day 1 town lynches.
What people need is force and with that, Vote: DRey
This whole post reads as scummy. He provides no reason for why he feels Tare is scum (nor has he ever), throws suspicion towards two others (DRey and Che) without expounding why, absolves F1 with a nebulous mention of other D1 lynches, and finishes with a jump onto an easy wagon.
It's a contentless post. There's no insight but rather vague suspicion thrown around. AG needs to hang.
@Dc I'm not ignoring you, I've answered your question, and you said "bovine feces" what more do you want from me? I think Kpaca is scum for previously state reasons, and the fact that he's lurking just strengthens the case against him, everyone knows Kpaca lurks way more as scum than town. I know my reasons may look weak from an outside perspective, but I've played/read like ten Kpaca's games and I've been scum with him(everytime I'm scum with someone I learn how to read that guy), so I know his playstyle and meta very well. In the end I can't provide you with more because he clearly is not playing. With like 5 posts total there's not much to be dissected.
@KCC which question, I'm not seeing it.
Now I want to talk about my feelings about this game, first thing to note is that 90% of the players are purposely not playing, from the few ones that are playing I feel they are all town (Tar, Asen, Nis). It's obvious the scum is afraid or is trying the old strategy of not doing anything while the town butt heads and implode by themselves. I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. AG has ****ing 2 posts and despite being seen reading the game lots of times, he managed to reach so far with being prodded just twice. In fact the fact that he has provided no reasons for his previous Tar vote (which was probably the largest wagon at that time) and now for my vote (which is the largest wagon now) and that only Nis has noticed this, despite a LOT of people asking him to expand on his previous naked vote (KCC and DC conveniently ignored his lack of response while pushing me for same reasons) makes me think he's the best canditate for scum right now.
unvote, vote AG
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
This lurking is completely unacceptable and I'm tired of it.
I'd rather you vote AG because he's voting without reasons. Out of the two behaviors AG has exhibited, lurking and badvoting, one is much more indicative of scum than the other. The fact that you chose the one behavior that town does as much as scum while totally ignoring the other reason makes me suspicious of you.
P.S. @dc At the time, I found you and kpaca somewhat scummy. It's not like I analyzed the wagon and decided to forget about it though. It just didn't register as a big deal to me. Still my mistake and I need to pay attention to all the wagons. I can see how serious you guys are about it now. I still feel like DRey is mostly misunderstood though.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I'd rather you vote AG because he's voting without reasons. Out of the two behaviors AG has exhibited, lurking and badvoting, one is much more indicative of scum than the other. The fact that you chose the one behavior that town does as much as scum while totally ignoring the other reason makes me suspicious of you.
The bad voting and making fake content are part of the lurking. I was posting from my phone, so I didn't go into more detail. If it was just not posting, I wouldn't have voted in response to him posting, I would have voted a while ago. He is posting pure trash when he does post though and is basically a liability at this point. I either want AG to explain his actions and start actually contributing, or get lynched.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I'll let him prove his ability twice. (can't let 1-shot abilities clear scum)
This looks like legitimate townie reasoning. Why would a scum care about forcing him to use it twice? -It's such a narrow, specific thing to ask for which really only makes sense from AG if he truly doubts Tar's claim and is looking for a path to confirmation.
Starts out wishy-washy and then wants scum lists. This is scum trying to maneuver a different lynch.
This is exactly how I felt about DRey's request. -Huge town points to AG for having that same feeling and for being the first to state it in the thread.
DRey/Che interactions deserve being looked at if either flips scum.
And while he doesn't really dive into his expressed Che suspicion here, it's simply a mention of the interaction with his suspected scum. Plus, this wouldn't even result in either being looked at unless the other flips scum. So, if you are trying to imply that AG is scum here for trying to cast undue suspicion on either DRey or Che, that only works if AG is scumbuddies with the other one.
Forgotten One is flailing, but it seems more like harassed town flailing than scum flailing. It reminds me of other day 1 town lynches.
This a completely reasonable stance for AG to have, comparing F1's behavior to other situations he has seen. I don't particularly agree with AG on this one, but the reasoning here is fine.
It's a contentless post. There's no insight but rather vague suspicion thrown around. AG needs to hang.
I couldn't disagree with this more. And I'm more suspicious of Nis now for having glossed over everything in AG's post to simply paint it all in a negative light, when even the slightest bit of analysis shows townie reasoning and mindset behind that post.
Am I happy with AG's posting rate? -No. Do I wish he was participating more? -Of course. But that doesn't mean AG is autoscum, especially when that last post points in entirely the other direction.
He has one decent point against DRey, but the rest of his post has no grounding. He also hasn't explained his view on Taredas or contributed to any of the ongoing discussions on the game.
Obviously Taredas will have to prove his ability on a later Day for it to be actual confirmation, but it's a VERY strong point in his favor if it can be proven even toDay. The rest goes mostly without saying though and seems like an easy thing for someone to point out when they want free town points.
Trying to tell us that DRey and Che are scumbuddies if either flips scum is also pointless without more details and could easily be trying to set-up town. I generally consider trying to plan multiple lynches in the future scummy.
So far from AG we have one post that doesn't contribute and places a vote without explanation. Then a second post with 1 reasonable point, two scummy points, and another weak vote. Overall it still looks pretty bad to me, but most of all I want him to start posting better reasons and getting involved with the game.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Wait, wait, wait. If "wishy-washy" is a convincing argument for you then your metric is way too low. It's a generality that describes nothing. What about DRey's posting is wishy-washy? I want specifics from AG; he didn't provide any.
This is exactly how I felt about DRey's request. -Huge town points to AG for having that same feeling and for being the first to state it in the thread.
Huh? It's not like AG started the DRey wagon. His reasoning for jumping on is so vague it could describe anybody's feelings.
And while he doesn't really dive into his expressed Che suspicion here, it's simply a mention of the interaction with his suspected scum. Plus, this wouldn't even result in either being looked at unless the other flips scum. So, if you are trying to imply that AG is scum here for trying to cast undue suspicion on either DRey or Che, that only works if AG is scumbuddies with the other one.
I'm not following. If AG is scum then he could be throwing suspicion multiple ways. He doesn't have to be scumbuddies with either to try and direct attention towards them. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying.
This a completely reasonable stance for AG to have, comparing F1's behavior to other situations he has seen. I don't particularly agree with AG on this one, but the reasoning here is fine.
I could say, "F1's behavior is similar to situations where scum has been caught and is flailing." Other players would probably expect me to expound on this to provide some evidence so my claim has merit.
AG didn't do that. He can certainly feel that F1's behavior is similar to past experiences, but without actually showing us that's the case it's empty. His statement about F1 has no merit because there is nothing backing the observation. Now AG could come back and provide some info, but the fact that he voted Tare without absolutely zero reasoning and never provided any reasoning doesn't give me hope that he'll come back with some links to games where we can see behavior similar to F1's. Furthermore, unless those incidents happen to include F1 the credibility that should be given is pretty low: oftentimes player A reacts to a situation much differently than player B.
I couldn't disagree with this more. And I'm more suspicious of Nis now for having glossed over everything in AG's post to simply paint it all in a negative light, when even the slightest bit of analysis shows townie reasoning and mindset behind that post.
Am I happy with AG's posting rate? -No. Do I wish he was participating more? -Of course. But that doesn't mean AG is autoscum, especially when that last post points in entirely the other direction.
You and I are reading the post in a much different way. I have absolutely no idea how you glean any sort of positive mindset from that post. AG is throwing suspicion like it's confetti and providing F1 a meta defense that might not even apply to F1. It's nothing more than an attempt to look like he's paying attention while jumping onto the current wagon.
Asenion
AtheistGod
Cyouni
Che Guevara
desCoures
DRey
Forgotten One
KittyCupCake
kpaca
Nis
Taredas
Voxxicus
Taredas is almost certainly town.
Asenion is probably town.
dC and KCC read fairly logically, but slight sense of unease about both of them. Can't quite pinpoint it, possible it's just paranoia. No interest in lynching them, at any rate.
That leaves:
AtheistGod
Cyouni
Che Guevara
DRey
Forgotten One
kpaca
Nis
This cluster has kind of been the Special Olympics of scummy. Or inactive, in Cyouni/Kpaca's cases.
I don't have a strong opinion on any one of the players being scum, though if I went with my gut, I think I like my vote still being on Che. There's a mix of flippancy and abrasiveness that feels like trying too hard to handwave pressure away.
Cyouni and Kpaca 'feel' like lurking scum, but can't really condemn them for that on a slow day one when I've largely been absent due to RL things myself.
I'd be okay with a FO lynch, too, I think.
I'm not completely opposed to a DRey lynch, but I think I want more out of Kpaca before I make a judgement there. The two aren't aligned, and I'm not sure enough that Kpaca is town to lynch DRey.
Nis' neutral stuff rubbed me wrong way, and he looked like textbook flailing, backpedaling scum. But he's improved a little bit, and I kind of like the way he's approaching the AG case and sticking to convictions when KCC counters it.
I mostly go off gut on day one and fixate on someone I think is scum. But my inactivity and apathy borne of that inactivity kept me from getting invested early and finding that.
But I think I'm in the Che > FO > Drey camp for lynch targets, with a stronger preference for the first two.
This whole post reads as scummy. He provides no reason for why he feels Tare is scum (nor has he ever), throws suspicion towards two others (DRey and Che) without expounding why, absolves F1 with a nebulous mention of other D1 lynches, and finishes with a jump onto an easy wagon.
It's a contentless post. There's no insight but rather vague suspicion thrown around. AG needs to hang.
Any righteous citizen should do their best to provide impartial judgement. Hounding a player for flailing is not going to lead to well thought out lynches. Is there a reason that you don't want to even consider that FO's reactions are simply a result of pressure? All I want regarding FO is for people to remember this basic aspect. Scum can also flail in that manner, but that doesn't make it an indictment of scumminess.
I could say, "F1's behavior is similar to situations where scum has been caught and is flailing." Other players would probably expect me to expound on this to provide some evidence so my claim has merit.
You could, if anyone was using the flailing as a reason to confirm FO as town? Is anyone arguing that the flailing makes FO confirmed town? This is the nature of counterexamples. It's much more work to prove a conclusive result than to point out flawed reasoning.
Now I want to talk about my feelings about this game, first thing to note is that 90% of the players are purposely not playing, from the few ones that are playing I feel they are all town (Tar, Asen, Nis). It's obvious the scum is afraid or is trying the old strategy of not doing anything while the town butt heads and implode by themselves. I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. AG has ****ing 2 posts and despite being seen reading the game lots of times, he managed to reach so far with being prodded just twice. In fact the fact that he has provided no reasons for his previous Tar vote (which was probably the largest wagon at that time) and now for my vote (which is the largest wagon now) and that only Nis has noticed this, despite a LOT of people asking him to expand on his previous naked vote (KCC and DC conveniently ignored his lack of response while pushing me for same reasons) makes me think he's the best canditate for scum right now.
unvote, vote AG
I'm scum because you feel slighted? This sounds like scum complaining about pressure that they don't think they earned. Also, "best candidate" would be a poor way to word this as town. I'm the "best candidate" to be lynched?
Mostly it was a few sentences throughout your posts that read as weird to me. Your post 186 reads better, but many of your earlier posts make me cautious.
Some examples being:
That's it. Either you're not town, or you're playing so antitown that it makes no difference.
Also note that scum have daytalk and how the "reads badly no matter what kpaca's alignment is" I mention about Che above can also apply to this post.
Oh THERE we go. I wondered when a scumbag was going to slip up. Nis can wait, because this post did not come from town.
The more I reread the better I feel about you as town, but my initial feelings still nag at me a little.
Voting, producing no content, and having no opinions, is anti-town behavior. It's not actually scummy because town can do it, but it's bad for the game and bad for the town. I hate to policy lynch, but there comes a point where it's too much. A player that continues to post fluff or not post at all with no remorse or intent to improve becomes a liability. Better to lynch it earlier than later.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
AG, Cliffs Notes response (I'm a little short on time atm): Your problems with me are playstyle-related, considering that you're quoting fairly stock town rhetoric for me. I'll explain further when I get more time.
dC and KCC read fairly logically, but slight sense of unease about both of them. Can't quite pinpoint it, possible it's just paranoia. No interest in lynching them, at any rate.
"Town, but..."
Stay with me here, that "but" is going to be a running theme for a bit.
This cluster has kind of been the Special Olympics of scummy. Or inactive, in Cyouni/Kpaca's cases.
I don't have a strong opinion on any one of the players being scum, though if I went with my gut, I think I like my vote still being on Che. There's a mix of flippancy and abrasiveness that feels like trying too hard to handwave pressure away.
Cyouni and Kpaca 'feel' like lurking scum, but can't really condemn them for that on a slow day one when I've largely been absent due to RL things myself.
I'd be okay with a FO lynch, too, I think.
"I think", "don't have a strong opinion", "feels like", "can't really condemn them". "okay with an FO lynch, too, I think"?
Why the equivocation? Why do you feel the need to put caveats on all of your reads, as opposed to, say, giving initial reads and asking questions about what's making you unsure/uneasy?
I'm not completely opposed to a DRey lynch, but I think I want more out of Kpaca before I make a judgement there. The two aren't aligned, and I'm not sure enough that Kpaca is town to lynch DRey.
Uh, wait. "Not completely opposed" implies opposition. Why? Moreover, why not come out and say it? (Besides the obvious possibility of "you're scum and don't want to come down one way or the other re: DRey", either because he's scum and if you defend him you'll tie yourself to him or because he's town and you want credit for calling that while leaving yourself open to hop on later if needed. If I had to guess between those two, I'd say the former - the specific wording reminds me of scumbuddy interaction over on MS.)
Nis' neutral stuff rubbed me wrong way, and he looked like textbook flailing, backpedaling scum. But he's improved a little bit, and I kind of like the way he's approaching the AG case and sticking to convictions when KCC counters it.
And again an equivocated read on a player (note the "but"). Also note the failure to state whether he currently thinks Nis is town or scum (and the same for DRey, come to think of it). That's not town behavior.
I mostly go off gut on day one and fixate on someone I think is scum. But my inactivity and apathy borne of that inactivity kept me from getting invested early and finding that.
Why are you preemptively justifying your play, especially when you have an obvious explanation for lower activity due to a medical V/LA? Feeling nervous?
@Dc I'm not ignoring you, I've answered your question, and you said "bovine feces" what more do you want from me? I think Kpaca is scum for previously state reasons, and the fact that he's lurking just strengthens the case against him, everyone knows Kpaca lurks way more as scum than town. I know my reasons may look weak from an outside perspective, but I've played/read like ten Kpaca's games and I've been scum with him(everytime I'm scum with someone I learn how to read that guy), so I know his playstyle and meta very well. In the end I can't provide you with more because he clearly is not playing. With like 5 posts total there's not much to be dissected.
First underline: I'm going to need some actual evidence before I start believing this. (And I say this DESPITE kpaca's play being an extreme annoyance.)
Second underline: Why say this?
Now I want to talk about my feelings about this game, first thing to note is that 90% of the players are purposely not playing, from the few ones that are playing I feel they are all town (Tar, Asen, Nis).
and now for my vote (which is the largest wagon now) and that only Nis has noticed this, despite a LOT of people asking him to expand on his previous naked vote (KCC and DC conveniently ignored his lack of response while pushing me for same reasons) makes me think he's the best canditate for scum right now.
unvote, vote AG
Why "Best candidate for scum"? Do you think he's scum or not?
Hell, for that matter take a close look at the wording here. KCC and DC "conveniently ignored" X from AG... wait a minute, aren't KCC and DC the two players arguing most strongly for the DRey lynch? Not only is DRey ignoring arguments/questions... he's discrediting the people attacking him the hardest. That's not town behavior. Especially not when he's ALSO hopping onto the second-largest wagon at the same time (aka "look, a distraction!").
Another thought... I lurked Ataghan. I remember you there as being extremely argumentative and extremely willing to stand your ground when questioned. Where did that DRey go? Why are you ignoring questions here? For that matter:
I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. [/quote]
Anybody else reminded of WoD's defense in Ataghan? (For the ignorant: in Ataghan Xyre caught WoD as scum, and WoD proceeded to claim that he'd been trying a new playstyle.) It looks to me like you're trying to justify your play with out-of-game concerns. Not defend, not explain, but *justify*. Why? Because you *can't* defend or explain it on account of being scum.
UnHoS, HoS x3: DRey (underlining instead of bolding as a precaution - don't want Xyre to misread a HoS for a vote)
DRey, if I were actually voting you (and Xyre was counting dC's vote on you) that would be a lynch. Claim in your next post or die.
Mod: desCoures should be voting DRey (as of post 130).
Is there a reason that you don't want to even consider that FO's reactions are simply a result of pressure?
Have I said anything about F1 that wasn't in reference to how you spoke about him? Switch out F1 for any other name and then read my post. My issue is not that you tried to defend F1, but rather that you used reasoning alluding to behavior in other games. When somebody brings up meta defenses, especially for others, I expect to see links.
Voting, producing no content, and having no opinions, is anti-town behavior. It's not actually scummy because town can do it, but it's bad for the game and bad for the town. I hate to policy lynch, but there comes a point where it's too much. A player that continues to post fluff or not post at all with no remorse or intent to improve becomes a liability. Better to lynch it earlier than later.
Unless you think the person is actually scum, better to not lynch at all. Lynching someone for "being a bad townie" is ridiculous.
I'll get around to answering some of the other questions asked of me (KCC and DesCours) a little later today.
DRey's at 4 votes. If you were to vote him (which you aren't), he would be at L-2. And heck, even at the time of this post DRey had been at 3 votes for ages. If whatever this is can 'confirm him as scum', what in the world are you still waiting for?
For the record, I don't think we should count the extra votes from Taredas for claiming. IMO, people should still claim when L-2 people are voting them even if Taredas is one of them.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
For the record, I don't think we should count the extra votes from Taredas for claiming. IMO, people should still claim when L-2 people are voting them even if Taredas is one of them.
That depends on whether or not you trust that I won't quickhammer. If you trust me, L-2 is fine (and, in fact, is what I'm doing - note that "L-2 with my HoS only counting once" and "in hammer range" are exactly the same thing). If not, the best solution is probably to only vote to L-4 and to pseudovote after that.
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DRey, get in here and claim already.
Mod: Is unvoting required? The posted ruleset does not specify, and given that Scum mods are wildly inconsistent about whether unvoting is required, I'd like some clarity on the matter.
This whole post reads as scummy. He provides no reason for why he feels Tare is scum (nor has he ever), throws suspicion towards two others (DRey and Che) without expounding why, absolves F1 with a nebulous mention of other D1 lynches, and finishes with a jump onto an easy wagon.
It's a contentless post. There's no insight but rather vague suspicion thrown around. AG needs to hang.
...question, Nis. What in the world is your opinion of DRey?
@Dc I'm not ignoring you, I've answered your question, and you said "bovine feces" what more do you want from me? I think Kpaca is scum for previously state reasons, and the fact that he's lurking just strengthens the case against him, everyone knows Kpaca lurks way more as scum than town. I know my reasons may look weak from an outside perspective, but I've played/read like ten Kpaca's games and I've been scum with him(everytime I'm scum with someone I learn how to read that guy), so I know his playstyle and meta very well. In the end I can't provide you with more because he clearly is not playing. With like 5 posts total there's not much to be dissected.
Agreed on the lack of posts from kpaca, but other than that - what more do I want from you? I'd like some kind of response to the points I raised against you - which, here, you are trying to imply were limited to me calling a pile of faeces a pile of faeces on your kpaca 'case'.
To whit, things you never answered or replied to:
1. How in the world kpaca's 'lurking' is any different from how he plays as town.
2. Your blatant buddying with Taredas and your attempt to push Asenion into voting kpaca based on that buddying.
3. Why you seem inclined to give Forgotten One a pass based on 'he doesn't look very experienced and will get caught sooner or later'... in a mini, where 'sooner and later' is a much shorter time frame.
Now I want to talk about my feelings about this game, first thing to note is that 90% of the players are purposely not playing, from the few ones that are playing I feel they are all town (Tar, Asen, Nis). It's obvious the scum is afraid or is trying the old strategy of not doing anything while the town butt heads and implode by themselves. I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. AG has ****ing 2 posts and despite being seen reading the game lots of times, he managed to reach so far with being prodded just twice. In fact the fact that he has provided no reasons for his previous Tar vote (which was probably the largest wagon at that time) and now for my vote (which is the largest wagon now) and that only Nis has noticed this, despite a LOT of people asking him to expand on his previous naked vote (KCC and DC conveniently ignored his lack of response while pushing me for same reasons) makes me think he's the best canditate for scum right now.
unvote, vote AG
Taredas already pointed out most of what I would have had to say about this, but you putting Nis above myself at least in terms of 'playing the game' is utterly laughable - and your statement about me and KCC 'conveniently ignoring' AG's 'lack of response' (you, of course, ignoring me having FoSed AtheistGod for his lousy vote in my very last post) just reads like an attempt to discredit your attackers.
Riddle me this, DRey. From your accusation of 'conveniently ignoring AG', you appear to be implying that KCC and myself are scum with AG. If that's the case, then why in the world are you still replying to me as if I was town?
P.S. @dc At the time, I found you and kpaca somewhat scummy. It's not like I analyzed the wagon and decided to forget about it though. It just didn't register as a big deal to me. Still my mistake and I need to pay attention to all the wagons. I can see how serious you guys are about it now. I still feel like DRey is mostly misunderstood though.
I don't believe you ever answered why you feel this way.
For the record, I don't think we should count the extra votes from Taredas for claiming. IMO, people should still claim when L-2 people are voting them even if Taredas is one of them.
..............
...this reads so much like an attempt to stall the DRey wagon.
I'm not completely opposed to a DRey lynch, but I think I want more out of Kpaca before I make a judgement there. The two aren't aligned, and I'm not sure enough that Kpaca is town to lynch DRey.
......
...this is a rather bad reason to stall a DRey lynch. And how are you so certain that the two aren't on the same side?
How is this "interesting"? And where are some answers to the last two questions I asked earlier?
Note: If dC's vote for DRey in 130 counts, then you will unvote as soon as Xyre updates the vote count OR ELSE. Got it?
...huh? Why would this be necessary? DRey's wagon was at 3 (4, counting mine) votes, Che's vote only makes it 4(5), which is conveniently L-2 if my vote is actually where it should be.
In fact...
Unvote
Vote: DRey
DRey - claim. Now.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@Taredas: If you hammer without town permission and they flip town, you will probably be lynched for it. I'm not too worried about a potential scumTaredas risking that just to hammer someone. On later phases when we approach LyLo, sure we can consider adjusting this. For now it should be fine.
@dC: I think DRey is misunderstood because I just got out of a game with him where we nearly lynched him because we didn't understand his mindset, and he was town. Also look at his past games where he gets mislynched semi-often. Frankly, I don't think traditional reads work very well on DRey. On the other hand, I am not speaking out in his defense precisely because I don't want to stall the most successful wagon on a pretty uneventful day. Even lynching someone who I would place at 60/40 odds of being town is better than stalling till deadline with no results. I also think it's completely reasonable to establish lynch and claim protocols regarding a multi-voter and it seems a bit silly to basically give Taredas the ability to make anyone claim any time he wants. I would rather that be a group decision.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
@Taredas: If you hammer without town permission and they flip town, you will probably be lynched for it. I'm not too worried about a potential scumTaredas risking that just to hammer someone. On later phases when we approach LyLo, sure we can consider adjusting this. For now it should be fine.
I'm just trying to work through the optimal play regarding my role.
@dC: I think DRey is misunderstood because I just got out of a game with him where we nearly lynched him because we didn't understand his mindset, and he was town. Also look at his past games where he gets mislynched semi-often. Frankly, I don't think traditional reads work very well on DRey. On the other hand, I am not speaking out in his defense precisely because I don't want to stall the most successful wagon on a pretty uneventful day. Even lynching someone who I would place at 60/40 odds of being town is better than stalling till deadline with no results. I also think it's completely reasonable to establish lynch and claim protocols regarding a multi-voter and it seems a bit silly to basically give Taredas the ability to make anyone claim any time he wants. I would rather that be a group decision.
Asenion, I'm reading DRey as playing differently under pressure from how he did in Ataghan - he was argumentative and defended himself strongly there, while here I'd characterize his response to pressure as looking for a diversion. Do you disagree? If so, why?
...huh? Why would this be necessary? DRey's wagon was at 3 (4, counting mine) votes, Che's vote only makes it 4(5), which is conveniently L-2 if my vote is actually where it should be.
Because I'm pseudovoting DRey now and want the way clear for my triple vote. Sure, it's not strictly speaking *necessary*, but when it's time to prove my triple vote I'd rather not have to wait for somebody to unvote first.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
...question, Nis. What in the world is your opinion of DRey?
He's playing similarly to how he played in Ataghan. In other words, in a way that I find difficult not to read as scummy. I'm trying to keep a more open mind about him this game just in case, but I have noticed him buddying me a little.
I'm reading DRey as playing differently under pressure from how he did in Ataghan - he was argumentative and defended himself strongly there, while here I'd characterize his response to pressure as looking for a diversion. Do you disagree? If so, why?
Nis, dC: Same question for you.
In Ataghan DRey was certainly argumentative, but I wouldn't say he defended himself well. He forced his replacement because he let his emotions get the better of himself. If he hadn't been replaced by Seppel DRey would have likely been lynched.
As for this game DRey has been playing pretty similarly to past games. He states his opinions as though they're facts. He says things that sound scummy. The only real difference has been the aforementioned slight buddying.
Want to know what's odd? You were in that game, and you know Iso was not scum, heck you know we've used the same approach to determined Iso was town back there. Why skip this?
First underline: I'm going to need some actual evidence before I start believing this. (And I say this DESPITE kpaca's play being an extreme annoyance.)
Second underline: Why say this?
1)I know this is true because I've both read and experienced this before, Kpaca as town is usually much more active, why don't you search for this info yourself since you enjoy doing so? I remember Kpaca being lurking scum in a basic about godzilla's (don't really remember the name) while being very active on his most recent town games, he's usually NK early on as town.
2)Because I'm the one who has lots of experience with him, and know this is true.
It's obvious. Too few people is actually giving content, do you think the scumteam is comprised of only the people that are actually posting? I know some players here lurk as town (Voxx, DC comes to mind) but the other guys have no excuse.
Hell, for that matter take a close look at the wording here. KCC and DC "conveniently ignored" X from AG... wait a minute, aren't KCC and DC the two players arguing most strongly for the DRey lynch? Not only is DRey ignoring arguments/questions... he's discrediting the people attacking him the hardest. That's not town behavior. Especially not when he's ALSO hopping onto the second-largest wagon at the same time (aka "look, a distraction!").
I remember KCC asking for AG reasoning for his vote on you, back there I was also quite intrigued by AG bizarre play so I also was waiting for that, when he returned not only he didn't provide such reasons but he jumped to the biggest wagon without reasons (Nis already explained that, I also find strange that KCC see any reedeming quality about AG's play so far). When I ask questions, I ask because I want answers, not only to appear to be scumhunting. KCC completely missing AG's non response does not bode well for me, because it looks like she never cared about AG's scummy play in the first place.
Another thought... I lurked Ataghan. I remember you there as being extremely argumentative and extremely willing to stand your ground when questioned. Where did that DRey go? Why are you ignoring questions here?
I'm not, I've already explained that, I've answered DC question a long time ago and KCC never asked any question she only made a comment about my play.
Anybody else reminded of WoD's defense in Ataghan? (For the ignorant: in Ataghan Xyre caught WoD as scum, and WoD proceeded to claim that he'd been trying a new playstyle.) It looks to me like you're trying to justify your play with out-of-game concerns. Not defend, not explain, but *justify*. Why? Because you *can't* defend or explain it on account of being scum.
Actually considering this game, I think my play has been stellar and I've provided much more than most. But I'm really having a hard time connecting to this game, probably for the stated reasons and for the fact that I really dislike D1.
DRey, if I were actually voting you (and Xyre was counting dC's vote on you) that would be a lynch. Claim in your next post or die.
I think that's the second time you ask for claim just because you have 3 votes or something, I will not do as you wish, nor I'm afraid of being lynched, I'm town, my role is not very good (and if I claim it will turn worthless) so it's not a big loss. So fire away if you want, I will only claim at L-2.
@mod votecount plz
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
For the record, I don't think we should count the extra votes from Taredas for claiming. IMO, people should still claim when L-2 people are voting them even if Taredas is one of them.
@DRey
Agreed on the lack of posts from kpaca, but other than that - what more do I want from you? I'd like some kind of response to the points I raised against you - which, here, you are trying to imply were limited to me calling a pile of faeces a pile of faeces on your kpaca 'case'.
To whit, things you never answered or replied to:
1. How in the world kpaca's 'lurking' is any different from how he plays as town.
2. Your blatant buddying with Taredas and your attempt to push Asenion into voting kpaca based on that buddying.
3. Why you seem inclined to give Forgotten One a pass based on 'he doesn't look very experienced and will get caught sooner or later'... in a mini, where 'sooner and later' is a much shorter time frame.
1)Is this a joke correct? I've already answered this a long time ago. I will search and quote for you since looks like you have some reading issues.
2)What you call buddying I call town reads, and I trust Taredas quite a lot, not only everything he does has a pro-town mentality (I have been fooled by this before) but his role is exclusively townie (and SK cause of Ozone, but not on a mini, Xyre does not accept SK's for minis). So yeah, I trust him blindfolded.
3)Not really, in fact I was ready to vote him when obvscum AG showed up and made the day easier.
Taredas already pointed out most of what I would have had to say about this, but you putting Nis above myself at least in terms of 'playing the game' is utterly laughable - and your statement about me and KCC 'conveniently ignoring' AG's 'lack of response' (you, of course, ignoring me having FoSed AtheistGod for his lousy vote in my very last post) just reads like an attempt to discredit your attackers.
Actually I'm quite happy about my wagon, because only the scummiest are on it (except for Tar). All the good guys are on the AG or F1 one, but that's just my opinion.
Riddle me this, DRey. From your accusation of 'conveniently ignoring AG', you appear to be implying that KCC and myself are scum with AG. If that's the case, then why in the world are you still replying to me as if I was town?
Why do you think I'm replying to you as if you were town? Anyway I always reply to everyone even if I believe they are scum. That being said I don't have a scum read of you, just neutral or maybe slightly leaning scum. Certainly not a town read though.
@Taredas: If you hammer without town permission and they flip town, you will probably be lynched for it. I'm not too worried about a potential scumTaredas risking that just to hammer someone. On later phases when we approach LyLo, sure we can consider adjusting this. For now it should be fine.
Don't be dumb, if he does hammer me and proves his power he will be confirmed town, we will not lynch confirmed town ever, even if he plays badly and hammer town again and again. It's very important that you take the words of confirmed town very importantly, not because they are always correct but because they always have the town's best interest in mind. So remember. if I'm triple hammered toDay, DO NOT LYNCH TAR at all costs. Also pay attention that he should be the one to hammer all Days to continually prove his power.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Yeah, I agree with that. But I don't really think he will be, the guy is cool. If Che was a town triple voter I would be very afraid though.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
He has one decent point against DRey, but the rest of his post has no grounding. He also hasn't explained his view on Taredas or contributed to any of the ongoing discussions on the game.
So far from AG we have one post that doesn't contribute and places a vote without explanation. Then a second post with 1 reasonable point, two scummy points, and another weak vote. Overall it still looks pretty bad to me, but most of all I want him to start posting better reasons and getting involved with the game.
Clearly, AG has been a terrible poster so far and really needs to contribute more. But, that doesn't change the fact that his post was overflowing with town tells.
Obviously Taredas will have to prove his ability on a later Day for it to be actual confirmation, but it's a VERY strong point in his favor if it can be proven even toDay. The rest goes mostly without saying though and seems like an easy thing for someone to point out when they want free town points.
Not at all. A scum would know that Tar would be effectively confirmed after one use. AG wanting it proved twice shows genuine doubt (especially since no one had previously discussed this point.)
Trying to tell us that DRey and Che are scumbuddies if either flips scum is also pointless without more details and could easily be trying to set-up town. I generally consider trying to plan multiple lynches in the future scummy.
Chaining lynches with the reasoning, "one of these must be scum, so if Player X flips town, then we should lynch Player Y next," tends to be a bad idea with obvious scum benefits. But, that isn't what AG was doing at all. -Think about it, how could his statement have resulted in one of them being lynched if both of them are town? How could it be setting anyone up then, unless one is scum?
Wait, wait, wait. If "wishy-washy" is a convincing argument for you then your metric is way too low. It's a generality that describes nothing. What about DRey's posting is wishy-washy? I want specifics from AG; he didn't provide any.
I was referring to (and fairly obviously, I think) the rest of that quote regarding scum lists.
Huh? It's not like AG started the DRey wagon. His reasoning for jumping on is so vague it could describe anybody's feelings.
No, his reasoning there was explicitly that he felt DRey was deflecting the wagon, and he pointed out exactly why. It's not vague at all. -And no one else had mentioned that point.
I'm not following. If AG is scum then he could be throwing suspicion multiple ways. He doesn't have to be scumbuddies with either to try and direct attention towards them. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying.
But AG wasn't directing attention towards that connection now, he was directing hypothetical future attention in the scenario where one of them flips scum at some point. -His statement doesn't direct anything unless at least one of them is scum, and is later revealed as such.
I could say, "F1's behavior is similar to situations where scum has been caught and is flailing." Other players would probably expect me to expound on this to provide some evidence so my claim has merit.
Yes, scum reads always need to be better supported than town reads. You need to fully explain why you are placing your one vote on someone, not why you aren't voting for the other eleven players.
AG didn't do that. He can certainly feel that F1's behavior is similar to past experiences, but without actually showing us that's the case it's empty. His statement about F1 has no merit because there is nothing backing the observation. Now AG could come back and provide some info, but the fact that he voted Tare without absolutely zero reasoning and never provided any reasoning doesn't give me hope that he'll come back with some links to games where we can see behavior similar to F1's. Furthermore, unless those incidents happen to include F1 the credibility that should be given is pretty low: oftentimes player A reacts to a situation much differently than player B.
AG's statement doesn't need to have merit to you, or to anyone else. If he sees something that makes him not want to place a vote somewhere, then that is all that needs to be said. Obviously, the unsupported Tar vote was less acceptable, but you are now talking about a town read. Unless, are you trying to claim that you have given thorough, well reasoned and supported cases on why you aren't voting for every single player you currently aren't voting?
You and I are reading the post in a much different way. I have absolutely no idea how you glean any sort of positive mindset from that post.
It's probably because I'm analyzing it, rather than looking for ways to frame it as scummy.
BTW, is there any particular reason for why you started responding to this post at the parts after AG's clear towntell, or for why you glossed over that point entirely?
For the record, I don't think we should count the extra votes from Taredas for claiming. IMO, people should still claim when L-2 people are voting them even if Taredas is one of them.
Obviously, Tar's "vote" should only be counted once for claiming. But, we were at the point where Tar's "vote" would put us at L-2.
Want to know what's odd? You were in that game, and you know Iso was not scum, heck you know we've used the same approach to determined Iso was town back there. Why skip this?
I don't think this is at all relevant to your alignment (with a small at Che), but Iso was the SK there. We false cleared him for most of the game based on this bad reasoning.
I was referring to (and fairly obviously, I think) the rest of that quote regarding scum lists.
So you were referring to what is basically a null tell? So if we take the scummy, noncommittal "wishy-washy" and add it to the null "scum lists" we end up with a town tell? Even if you count the scum lists as townie you still have the scummy "wishy-washy" to account for. I could understand you reading that entire statement as null at least based on the whole of its parts, but I just can't see how to read it as town.
No, his reasoning there was explicitly that he felt DRey was deflecting the wagon, and he pointed out exactly why. It's not vague at all. -And no one else had mentioned that point.
How was DRey deflecting exactly? Here is his post that AG quoted:
However F1 showed unexpected insights when he noticed such subtleties from Asen and Tar conversation about fingers not in like in a good way, because it seems like inside information. I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
How about we reveal our top suspects to hopefully reach a consensus? I'm fine with a lynch of either Kpaca (for previous reasons) or Che (I quite like the case against him).
Let's cut it down to just the part that might be deflection:
However F1 showed unexpected insights when he noticed such subtleties from Asen and Tar conversation about fingers not in like in a good way, because it seems like inside information. I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
I don't know what to think anymore but considering both of them are the only two pushing this game right now I'm against their wagons.
If DRey was trying to deflect onto Asen or Tar in that post why in the world would he immediately say he's against lynching either of them? Let's cut out that bit since it's obviously not deflection. What are we left with that's deflection?
But AG wasn't directing attention towards that connection now, he was directing hypothetical future attention in the scenario where one of them flips scum at some point. -His statement doesn't direct anything unless at least one of them is scum, and is later revealed as such.
Isn't that the case for anybody who has any sort of interaction? You and I are interacting right now. Is it scumhunting for somebody to pipe up now and say, "If KCC or Nis flips scum the other might be scum to because they interacted."? That's a wide net.
Yes, scum reads always need to be better supported than town reads. You need to fully explain why you are placing your one vote on someone, not why you aren't voting for the other eleven players.
AG's statement doesn't need to have merit to you, or to anyone else. If he sees something that makes him not want to place a vote somewhere, then that is all that needs to be said. Obviously, the unsupported Tar vote was less acceptable, but you are now talking about a town read. Unless, are you trying to claim that you have given thorough, well reasoned and supported cases on why you aren't voting for every single player you currently aren't voting?
Not sure how you interpreted my meaning so incorrectly. My biggest issue with AG is that he's popping in to vote and then he disappears. When he gets called out on that he makes a post with yet another vote and some vague references to different parts of the game. It was a complete PTAP post. He referenced the case against F1 merely to reference it. He had absolutely nothing of value to add to that topic. Instead of providing any sort of evidence why people might be wrong about F1 he makes a vague assertion without any sort of backup.
I could have cared less who he named in that post. The fact that he took the time to reference F1 but not the time to actually backup his assertion means he wasn't trying to convince us about anything about F1 but rather merely make it look like he was paying attention.
It's probably because I'm analyzing it, rather than looking for ways to frame it as scummy.
That's where our disconnect is. You're claiming to analyze something that amounts to a Bazooka Joe gum wrapper joke. I'm saying there's absolutely nothing to analyze because, as I said right from the start, it's a contentless post. A PTAP (or rather a post in response to a prod) that tries to appear as though AG is following along.
BTW, is there any particular reason for why you started responding to this post at the parts after AG's clear towntell, or for why you glossed over that point entirely?
You mean the part about scumlists? See above. That's a null tell.
Clearly, AG has been a terrible poster so far and really needs to contribute more. But, that doesn't change the fact that his post was overflowing with town tells.
So you think that his two post total were so "overflowing townie" he's now free to not justify his votes? Don't you think you are being quite quick to clear him? Because by ignoring the fact he never provided reasons for his previous votes you are letting him continue doing as he pleases. I never said "hey let's lynch AG because his first post was bad", I'm saying he needs to provide reasons for his votes and posts, by voting and pressuring him I show him that he needs to step up and explain himself or be lynched for coming with so much crap from the hat.
Not at all. A scum would know that Tar would be effectively confirmed after one use. AG wanting it proved twice shows genuine doubt (especially since no one had previously discussed this point.)
Pleeeease. Obvious things like that don't need to be said to make one pro-town. Everyone knows that Tar is not confirmed town until he proves his power, but how likely do you think are the chances of him not having claimed powers considering the nature of them? I would say roughly 1% because the moment he's a proven liar is the same moment he will be lynched and he knows this, so he would not lie about powers he doesn't as scum.
No, his reasoning there was explicitly that he felt DRey was deflecting the wagon, and he pointed out exactly why. It's not vague at all. -And no one else had mentioned that point.
Just because one can use buzzwords it mean they have good reasons? Nis has just showed there's absolutely no deflection on my post. In fact the rampant buzzword usage is a scum tell, particularly underseved ones like the one he just did.
Uh huh. And what about the part of his post I quoted which directly contradicts your "reading?"
That's your opinion, I read differently, Tar read it differently. I'm town, Tar is very likely town considering his powers, you not so much. So pardon me but I'm not liking your play on this game at all.
I don't think this is at all relevant to your alignment (with a small at Che), but Iso was the SK there. We false cleared him for most of the game based on this bad reasoning.
It was not bad reasoning, it was a perfectly fine reason and it was correct back there and still is here. What made it "fail" back there was that the game was almost only comprised of neutrals. That being said I'm pretty sure we cleared him of being scum, not of being neutral. We were hunting for the scum, me even more because I was a neutral hoping to shut down the game asap. Iso was confirmed not scum, Tar is confirmed not scum. He can be a neutral though, but that's not our problem it's of the scum, we will not lynch him ever.
AG's towntells in that post overshadowed the lack of response. I don't like to waste my timing chasing around bad townies.
WTF, so you really are pushing the idea AG is a "bad townie" from his two posts with basically two naked votes? Since when you are so gullible KCC? And gullible is not even the correct word here, because AG didn't even try to fool anyone he simply dropped two naked votes in the most scumtastic way possible while not answering questions and was caught reading the game before and not posting. Why he isn't at L-2 yet while I'm? Baffling.
You are at a real L-2, now. With Tar's HOS also supporting your wagon. I'm really not liking the stalling.
Remember that sentence up there? If you think "trying to frame one instead of analysing" is a scumtell why this choice of words? Why say stalling instead of slowrolling, why can't you envision town dislike claiming because they are a power role? Worse still why you try to paint everything I do as scummy when you have plenty of experience with me? You don't even have the excuse of "man, this DRey is so scummy, he's snarky, he's bullheaded, he's agressive." YOU KNOW HOW I ROLL, you have no excuse.
Seriously this is not the same player that played Eeevolution with me, there you instantly recognized me as town and worked with me quite well from the get go. In fact, I want to play a game with you now, tell me who's scum in your opinion, and when I flip town who looks worse and better? (hint: you are one of the guys that will look worse).
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I'm Cyan goo. My flavor is that I'm a pretty friendly goy(I created this pun myself :cool2:) so I like to hug everyone. However people dislike hugging me because I have dripping problem. I'm against the mafia because they are the opposite of me, so I dislike them and will show them how to behave.
My ability is that I can hug a player, that player will get covered in sticky cyan goo and everyone that targets him will also get painted, the mod will inform on the thread everyone that's sticky at the beginning of each day.
My wincon mentions more than one scum group, so I can confirm we are against more than one mafia group or there's neutrals out there. The main mafia group is the Goo Mafia.
BTW you guys suck royal ass for making me claim, there's absolutely no reason for this wagon, in fact I want to know from everyone on my wagon why I'm being voted in the next post, particularly AG.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
What Kpaca is still voting me?(why he wasn't replaced yet? ) I should not have claimed.
I will never claim without a VC first ever again.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
To be fair, Taredas is also on your wagon putting you at effectively L-(-1). You are one vote PAST dead if Taredas decides to hammer.
I figured you would have some sort of cult-style ability as soon as you said you were goo earlier, but I didn't want to freak the town out or force you to claim. Your claim lines up pretty well with the flavor of the game you are from, although I feel like you are leaving a bit out. What does making people sticky do? Do you have the normal town win-condition, or do you have an addition to it based on making enough people sticky? If you are a harmless cult (TM Goo mafia) I am more than happy to work with you if you claim it now.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I'm Cyan goo. My flavor is that I'm a pretty friendly goy(I created this pun myself :cool2:) so I like to hug everyone. However people dislike hugging me because I have dripping problem. I'm against the mafia because they are the opposite of me, so I dislike them and will show them how to behave.
My ability is that I can hug a player, that player will get covered in sticky cyan goo and everyone that targets him will also get painted, the mod will inform on the thread everyone that's sticky at the beginning of each day.
My wincon mentions more than one scum group, so I can confirm we are against more than one mafia group or there's neutrals out there. The main mafia group is the Goo Mafia.
I'm pretty sure you're misreading your wincon (see: AlphaInsidious's role in the original Redux), but other than that this role is massively powerful, confirmable (assuming it ever resolves), and - at risk of setup gaming - unlikely to appear on scum.
BTW you guys suck royal ass for making me claim, there's absolutely no reason for this wagon, in fact I want to know from everyone on my wagon why I'm being voted in the next post, particularly AG.
Posts 194 and 207 did not look like they came from a DRey-town mindset (post 232 *does*, but I didn't get to post yesterday), and none of my other scumreads were gaining any traction from anyone else.
To be fair, Taredas is also on your wagon putting you at effectively L-(-1). You are one vote PAST dead if Taredas decides to hammer.
I figured you would have some sort of cult-style ability as soon as you said you were goo earlier, but I didn't want to freak the town out or force you to claim. Your claim lines up pretty well with the flavor of the game you are from, although I feel like you are leaving a bit out. What does making people sticky do? Do you have the normal town win-condition, or do you have an addition to it based on making enough people sticky? If you are a harmless cult (TM Goo mafia) I am more than happy to work with you if you claim it now.
Really now? Fishing AND neutral speculation when the function of DRey's role is blatantly obvious?
Claim your exact win condition, please. Check with Xyre if you are allowed if you are worried - I don't see anything regarding it in opening posts. If he's (presumably) misreading it in the way I think he is, he's almost certain town.
Fishing and neutral hunting what? DRey just claimed at L-2. Those are supposed to be FULL claims according to MTGS meta. I'm asking him to finish claiming since I suspect he left out part of his claim, and I suspect he might be some flavor of neutral based on his role and want him to give a straight answer to that.
It's not like I'm asking random people to claim and telling the town we have a cult on the loose. I just want DRey to clarify his role.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
So you were referring to what is basically a null tell? So if we take the scummy, noncommittal "wishy-washy" and add it to the null "scum lists" we end up with a town tell? Even if you count the scum lists as townie you still have the scummy "wishy-washy" to account for. I could understand you reading that entire statement as null at least based on the whole of its parts, but I just can't see how to read it as town.
It's a town tell because he read the DRey post, analyzed it, and caught an issue that no one else had previously mentioned -namely, the fact that DRey's request for a scum list lynch there looked like an attempt to push away from his own wagon.
Maybe it'd be more clear if you were reading AG's post rather than misrepping it. I mean, you are so far off from anything in his post at this point, it isn't even funny.
Here is the relevant part of AG's post:
How about we reveal our top suspects to hopefully reach a consensus? I'm fine with a lynch of either Kpaca (for previous reasons) or Che (I quite like the case against him).
-In which AG is absolutely right in commenting that this looks like DRey trying to get out of his wagon by pushing attention elsewhere.
Isn't that the case for anybody who has any sort of interaction?
Uhh... no. Not even close. There is obviously differences between scum-scum interactions and other types of interactions. Looking for those is a big part of playing mafia. -And you obviously know this, so why are you playing stupid?
My biggest issue with AG is that he's popping in to vote and then he disappears. When he gets called out on that he makes a post with yet another vote and some vague references to different parts of the game.
Yes, I'm well aware that you are pushing to lynch the low hanging fruit. You don't need to explain that to me.
This is so, so wrong. AG brought up a safety measure for Tar that hadn't been discussed. He pointed out an issue in DRey's post that hadn't been mentioned. -The post had content, and good content, you are just choosing to gloss over it.
He referenced the case against F1 merely to reference it. He had absolutely nothing of value to add to that topic. Instead of providing any sort of evidence why people might be wrong about F1 he makes a vague assertion without any sort of backup.
I could have cared less who he named in that post. The fact that he took the time to reference F1 but not the time to actually backup his assertion means he wasn't trying to convince us about anything about F1 but rather merely make it look like he was paying attention.
And? He saw a wagon, he gave his opinion on it, he took a stance, and he stated why he was taking it. That's exactly how most townies handle wagons they disagree with. -You are seriously jumping through hoops to try making that look bad. -Very few players make extensive essays explaining why they aren't joining a wagon.
That's where our disconnect is. You're claiming to analyze something that amounts to a Bazooka Joe gum wrapper joke. I'm saying there's absolutely nothing to analyze because, as I said right from the start, it's a contentless post. A PTAP (or rather a post in response to a prod) that tries to appear as though AG is following along.
And again, you are only stating it is "contentless" because you aren't actually analyzing what is there and are instead just trying to make him look bad by dismissing the whole thing outright.
How can a bad townie give clear towntells? Wouldn't clear town tells indicate that a player is not playing badly as town?
I think you are a strong contender for the strawman awards this year. And you absolutely know better than this.
But, I'll humor you and explain this out like it's your first game of mafia, since that's apparently what you want. Towntells refer to things that indicate a player's alignment as town (these can vary from something as small as having an opinion or viewpoint on a situation that is unlikely to be effectively mimicked by scum, to something as conclusive as showing knowledge of the town wincon that the scum wouldn't have). On the other hand, a good townie posts useful content, scumhunts effectively, and advances the gamestate.
Bad players can easily commit towntells (like claiming at L-6, which is equal parts towntell and terrible play). And just because someone posts something that indicates there alignment, it doesn't magically make them a good townie. Here, AG is being a bad townie. He isn't posting much, and when he does post, it tends to be light. Despite that, some of what he has posted shows clear town mindset behind it. That doesn't make his posts good.
But, more importantly, you obviously know all of this. So, again, why are you playing stupid?
So you think that his two post total were so "overflowing townie" he's now free to not justify his votes? Don't you think you are being quite quick to clear him? Because by ignoring the fact he never provided reasons for his previous votes you are letting him continue doing as he pleases. I never said "hey let's lynch AG because his first post was bad", I'm saying he needs to provide reasons for his votes and posts, by voting and pressuring him I show him that he needs to step up and explain himself or be lynched for coming with so much crap from the hat.
I think his one post was so overflowing townie that I'm not interested in him. The evidence against him is simply that he is posting badly, which isn't a case, and doesn't even come close to outweighing the tells in his favor. If you want to pressure vote him to get him to post more, then go ahead, I guess. But I'd rather let the mod deal with those issues and potentially replace him, while I use my vote on players who are more likely to be scum.
Pleeeease. Obvious things like that don't need to be said to make one pro-town. Everyone knows that Tar is not confirmed town until he proves his power, but how likely do you think are the chances of him not having claimed powers considering the nature of them? I would say roughly 1% because the moment he's a proven liar is the same moment he will be lynched and he knows this, so he would not lie about powers he doesn't as scum.
None of this is relevant to the obvious town mindset behind AG's post. -Except that he clearly disagrees with you on the chance of a gambit.
Just because one can use buzzwords it mean they have good reasons? Nis has just showed there's absolutely no deflection on my post. In fact the rampant buzzword usage is a scum tell, particularly underseved ones like the one he just did.
You know that I was the one who called it "deflection," right? AG never used that word; he simply explained what he saw and why. I simplified.
It was not bad reasoning, it was a perfectly fine reason and it was correct back there and still is here. What made it "fail" back there was that the game was almost only comprised of neutrals. That being said I'm pretty sure we cleared him of being scum, not of being neutral. We were hunting for the scum, me even more because I was a neutral hoping to shut down the game asap. Iso was confirmed not scum, Tar is confirmed not scum. He can be a neutral though, but that's not our problem it's of the scum, we will not lynch him ever.
IDK, I consider a SK to be scum. I think most others do as well.
WTF, so you really are pushing the idea AG is a "bad townie" from his two posts with basically two naked votes? Since when you are so gullible KCC? And gullible is not even the correct word here, because AG didn't even try to fool anyone he simply dropped two naked votes in the most scumtastic way possible while not answering questions and was caught reading the game before and not posting. Why he isn't at L-2 yet while I'm? Baffling.
One was a naked vote. The second was sufficiently explained. And I've thoroughly explained why I got a town read from him there. -Also, I'm not gullible, I'm observant. (Unless I'm wrong, in which case feel free to rub it in my face postgame like Iso did after Eeveelution).
Remember that sentence up there? If you think "trying to frame one instead of analysing" is a scumtell why this choice of words? Why say stalling instead of slowrolling, why can't you envision town dislike claiming because they are a power role? Worse still why you try to paint everything I do as scummy when you have plenty of experience with me? You don't even have the excuse of "man, this DRey is so scummy, he's snarky, he's bullheaded, he's aggressive." YOU KNOW HOW I ROLL, you have no excuse.
Slowrolling is stalling. But you weren't even doing that, you were just dragging your feet. And the "town powerrole" possibility wasn't worth discussing there. -There is no way to know that without the claim, and once you do claim, if it clears you, then that's that anyway.
And not a single thing you listed there is a reason why I voted you. I know your playstyle, and my vote has nothing to do with that.
Seriously this is not the same player that played Eeevolution with me, there you instantly recognized me as town and worked with me quite well from the get go.
If you are town here, then you were playing better in Eeveelution.
In fact, I want to play a game with you now, tell me who's scum in your opinion, and when I flip town who looks worse and better?
Nis is my strongest read now. F1 is a maybe. You, I'm more hesitant on now, but I'm still not convinced on your claim. The non-AG lurkers are other possibilities.
I'm Cyan goo. My flavor is that I'm a pretty friendly goy(I created this pun myself :cool2:) so I like to hug everyone. However people dislike hugging me because I have dripping problem. I'm against the mafia because they are the opposite of me, so I dislike them and will show them how to behave.
I'm a little skeptical that the Cyan goo is friendly and going around hugging people (as opposed to hitting them with trains), but okay, maybe Xyre is just being ironic.
I'm pretty sure you're misreading your wincon (see: AlphaInsidious's role in the original Redux), but other than that this role is massively powerful, confirmable (assuming it ever resolves), and - at risk of setup gaming - unlikely to appear on scum.
I could easily see it as a scum ability, but the wincon is more potentially telling (maybe, depending on what info the mod gave to the scum).
Claim your exact win condition, please. Check with Xyre if you are allowed if you are worried - I don't see anything regarding it in opening posts. If he's (presumably) misreading it in the way I think he is, he's almost certain town.
His claimed wincon has something in common with mine, but another part of it sounds off. -I'll second this request.
Voting, producing no content, and having no opinions, is anti-town behavior. It's not actually scummy because town can do it, but it's bad for the game and bad for the town. I hate to policy lynch, but there comes a point where it's too much. A player that continues to post fluff or not post at all with no remorse or intent to improve becomes a liability. Better to lynch it earlier than later.
So explain how AG's post directly prior to this one "has no opinions" and "produces no content".
Want to know what's odd? You were in that game, and you know Iso was not scum, heck you know we've used the same approach to determined Iso was town back there. Why skip this?
I'm Cyan goo. My flavor is that I'm a pretty friendly goy(I created this pun myself :cool2:) so I like to hug everyone. However people dislike hugging me because I have dripping problem. I'm against the mafia because they are the opposite of me, so I dislike them and will show them how to behave.
My ability is that I can hug a player, that player will get covered in sticky cyan goo and everyone that targets him will also get painted, the mod will inform on the thread everyone that's sticky at the beginning of each day.
That seems confirmable.
Does the goo persist from day to day?
My wincon mentions more than one scum group, so I can confirm we are against more than one mafia group or there's neutrals out there. The main mafia group is the Goo Mafia.
I'd really love to hear where you're getting this information from, especially the last part.
BTW you guys suck royal ass for making me claim, there's absolutely no reason for this wagon, in fact I want to know from everyone on my wagon why I'm being voted in the next post, particularly AG.
Hint: if you get lynched (or forced to claim) frequently, it's your fault. Not everyone else's.
Unvote
Now this right here reads as scum. Starts out wishy-washy and then wants scum lists. This is scum trying to maneuver a different lynch.
DRey/Che interactions deserve being looked at if either flips scum.
Forgotten One is flailing, but it seems more like harassed town flailing than scum flailing. It reminds me of other day 1 town lynches.
What people need is force and with that, Vote: DRey
DRey is now at L-Tar, so, should he be claiming now? (Please say, "yes," Tar. -I both want him to be lynched and you to confirm your ability, so let's kill two birds with three hands here.)
1) Do you still think dC is scum? If so, why? If not, when did you decide differently and why?
2) Why have you stopped pushing me re: my use of the HoS?
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I didn't neglect to quote. Check my 133 again. Here's the relevant section:
Hell, take a good look, especially at the underlined:
By my read, kpaca's saying that the scum *haven't joined the wagon on him yet* - he's anticipating that scum will pile onto the wagon now that a couple of people have built a miniwagon.
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Wait a minute. So, first you say that a triple voter cannot be scum... but then you say that you think that F1 is right about Asen having insider knowledge of my role? Then you say that you're against a wagon on Asen or myself.... while leaving yourself an escape hatch if you want to come back to us later? And you want a scum list (which as often as not boils down to "let's appear to participate/scumhunt while we figure out who suspects us so we can off them tonight")? Explain, please.
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Why the rush? Is there any particular reason to lynch DRey immediately as opposed to closer to deadline?
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At underlined: Why?
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Okay, I see that the section I was asking about was included in the previous quote chunk. I must have just focused on the underlined part of that block when reading it. But even so...
I don't think it reads like that at all. -I mean, I understand what you are seeing now, but I think you are reading that too linearly.
Oh, I wasn't saying "lynch him right now!" -I was more asking for your thoughts on the wagon, and if you thought he should be claiming. -Because if you are interested in that lynch, then we can get the ball rolling on post-claim discussion.
Fair enough on most of that, except the quoted bit. That sounds a lot like rubbishing DRey's wagon for no good reason.
You 'never took that wagon very seriously'? That wagon consists of kpaca, KCC, and myself. (And now AtheistGod.) The three most experienced MTGS players in this game.
@Che Guevara
Not a good answer, but not a bad one either.
While I agree somewhat on the overanalysis point, the fact remains that handwaving like that doesn't feel like a townie response. I don't get any indignation or surprise or annoyance from that handwave at all - in fact, it felt more like a classic defensive action.
A quick look through your 27 posts this game shows that out of the four people anywhere near associated with the kpaca wagon - Nis, Asenion, DRey, Forgotten One - the only person you questioned at all was Nis, the one who didn't vote at all. Not DRey, who clearly had the most scummy vote on that wagon. Not Forgotten One, who jumped off at a questionable point. And only one throwaway question that had absolutely nothing to do with the kpaca wagon at Asenion, who technically started the whole thing with his RVS vote and fake daykill.
That isn't a pattern of questioning suspects and deciding who to vote. It's a pattern of running down a perceived easy target.
DRey's at 4 votes. If you were to vote him (which you aren't), he would be at L-2. And heck, even at the time of this post DRey had been at 3 votes for ages. If whatever this is can 'confirm him as scum', what in the world are you still waiting for?
@Forgotten One
Nice try. My initial question was here, in post #90. Your initial response and counterquestion were here, in #97. I brought up Hamlet Mafia here, in #112. Your answer to that (the rather dissembling one) was here, in post #118. I explained and confirmed my suspicions here, in post #130.
...and then after that you start ignoring me and do nothing but go after Asenion.
You're trying to push circular logic of the worst kind here, starting at the assumption that Taredas is scum. On top of that, you're making a pile of 'assumptions' that are unwise at best and outright dangerous at worst to make on day 1, with no information.
I don't believe you can honestly be making all of these ridiculous assumptions. You're trying to justify what you know to be unjustifiable.
@DRey
You're still blatantly ignoring me. You still haven't provided any half-decent reasons, previous or not, to lynch kpaca. And you're continuing your pattern of being subtly supportive of Forgotten One.
That's three strikes. You need to die.
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DRey needs to die. I'd also be perfectly happy with voting Forgotten One.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
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Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
This whole post reads as scummy. He provides no reason for why he feels Tare is scum (nor has he ever), throws suspicion towards two others (DRey and Che) without expounding why, absolves F1 with a nebulous mention of other D1 lynches, and finishes with a jump onto an easy wagon.
It's a contentless post. There's no insight but rather vague suspicion thrown around. AG needs to hang.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
@KCC which question, I'm not seeing it.
Now I want to talk about my feelings about this game, first thing to note is that 90% of the players are purposely not playing, from the few ones that are playing I feel they are all town (Tar, Asen, Nis). It's obvious the scum is afraid or is trying the old strategy of not doing anything while the town butt heads and implode by themselves. I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. AG has ****ing 2 posts and despite being seen reading the game lots of times, he managed to reach so far with being prodded just twice. In fact the fact that he has provided no reasons for his previous Tar vote (which was probably the largest wagon at that time) and now for my vote (which is the largest wagon now) and that only Nis has noticed this, despite a LOT of people asking him to expand on his previous naked vote (KCC and DC conveniently ignored his lack of response while pushing me for same reasons) makes me think he's the best canditate for scum right now.
unvote, vote AG
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Unvote
Vote AthiestGod
This lurking is completely unacceptable and I'm tired of it. I still want F1 lynched, but it can wait if it needs to.
I'm very displeased that kpaca is posting so little considering he is such a focus of the town. We need more content from him.
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I'd rather you vote AG because he's voting without reasons. Out of the two behaviors AG has exhibited, lurking and badvoting, one is much more indicative of scum than the other. The fact that you chose the one behavior that town does as much as scum while totally ignoring the other reason makes me suspicious of you.
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The bad voting and making fake content are part of the lurking. I was posting from my phone, so I didn't go into more detail. If it was just not posting, I wouldn't have voted in response to him posting, I would have voted a while ago. He is posting pure trash when he does post though and is basically a liability at this point. I either want AG to explain his actions and start actually contributing, or get lynched.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
This is true. And while I'd still like him to explain that, there is a far more important aspect to his Tar stance:
This looks like legitimate townie reasoning. Why would a scum care about forcing him to use it twice? -It's such a narrow, specific thing to ask for which really only makes sense from AG if he truly doubts Tar's claim and is looking for a path to confirmation.
He absolutely explained why:
This is exactly how I felt about DRey's request. -Huge town points to AG for having that same feeling and for being the first to state it in the thread.
This is ample reasoning for the DRey vote.
And while he doesn't really dive into his expressed Che suspicion here, it's simply a mention of the interaction with his suspected scum. Plus, this wouldn't even result in either being looked at unless the other flips scum. So, if you are trying to imply that AG is scum here for trying to cast undue suspicion on either DRey or Che, that only works if AG is scumbuddies with the other one.
This a completely reasonable stance for AG to have, comparing F1's behavior to other situations he has seen. I don't particularly agree with AG on this one, but the reasoning here is fine.
I couldn't disagree with this more. And I'm more suspicious of Nis now for having glossed over everything in AG's post to simply paint it all in a negative light, when even the slightest bit of analysis shows townie reasoning and mindset behind that post.
Am I happy with AG's posting rate? -No. Do I wish he was participating more? -Of course. But that doesn't mean AG is autoscum, especially when that last post points in entirely the other direction.
Obviously Taredas will have to prove his ability on a later Day for it to be actual confirmation, but it's a VERY strong point in his favor if it can be proven even toDay. The rest goes mostly without saying though and seems like an easy thing for someone to point out when they want free town points.
Trying to tell us that DRey and Che are scumbuddies if either flips scum is also pointless without more details and could easily be trying to set-up town. I generally consider trying to plan multiple lynches in the future scummy.
So far from AG we have one post that doesn't contribute and places a vote without explanation. Then a second post with 1 reasonable point, two scummy points, and another weak vote. Overall it still looks pretty bad to me, but most of all I want him to start posting better reasons and getting involved with the game.
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Wait, wait, wait. If "wishy-washy" is a convincing argument for you then your metric is way too low. It's a generality that describes nothing. What about DRey's posting is wishy-washy? I want specifics from AG; he didn't provide any.
Huh? It's not like AG started the DRey wagon. His reasoning for jumping on is so vague it could describe anybody's feelings.
I'm not following. If AG is scum then he could be throwing suspicion multiple ways. He doesn't have to be scumbuddies with either to try and direct attention towards them. Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying.
Care to clarify?
I could say, "F1's behavior is similar to situations where scum has been caught and is flailing." Other players would probably expect me to expound on this to provide some evidence so my claim has merit.
AG didn't do that. He can certainly feel that F1's behavior is similar to past experiences, but without actually showing us that's the case it's empty. His statement about F1 has no merit because there is nothing backing the observation. Now AG could come back and provide some info, but the fact that he voted Tare without absolutely zero reasoning and never provided any reasoning doesn't give me hope that he'll come back with some links to games where we can see behavior similar to F1's. Furthermore, unless those incidents happen to include F1 the credibility that should be given is pretty low: oftentimes player A reacts to a situation much differently than player B.
You and I are reading the post in a much different way. I have absolutely no idea how you glean any sort of positive mindset from that post. AG is throwing suspicion like it's confetti and providing F1 a meta defense that might not even apply to F1. It's nothing more than an attempt to look like he's paying attention while jumping onto the current wagon.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Asenion
AtheistGod
Cyouni
Che Guevara
desCoures
DRey
Forgotten One
KittyCupCake
kpaca
Nis
Taredas
Voxxicus
Taredas is almost certainly town.
Asenion is probably town.
dC and KCC read fairly logically, but slight sense of unease about both of them. Can't quite pinpoint it, possible it's just paranoia. No interest in lynching them, at any rate.
That leaves:
AtheistGod
Cyouni
Che Guevara
DRey
Forgotten One
kpaca
Nis
This cluster has kind of been the Special Olympics of scummy. Or inactive, in Cyouni/Kpaca's cases.
I don't have a strong opinion on any one of the players being scum, though if I went with my gut, I think I like my vote still being on Che. There's a mix of flippancy and abrasiveness that feels like trying too hard to handwave pressure away.
Cyouni and Kpaca 'feel' like lurking scum, but can't really condemn them for that on a slow day one when I've largely been absent due to RL things myself.
I'd be okay with a FO lynch, too, I think.
I'm not completely opposed to a DRey lynch, but I think I want more out of Kpaca before I make a judgement there. The two aren't aligned, and I'm not sure enough that Kpaca is town to lynch DRey.
Nis' neutral stuff rubbed me wrong way, and he looked like textbook flailing, backpedaling scum. But he's improved a little bit, and I kind of like the way he's approaching the AG case and sticking to convictions when KCC counters it.
I mostly go off gut on day one and fixate on someone I think is scum. But my inactivity and apathy borne of that inactivity kept me from getting invested early and finding that.
But I think I'm in the Che > FO > Drey camp for lynch targets, with a stronger preference for the first two.
(7 to lynch)
Asenion - 1 (Forgotten One)
Nis - 2 (Cyouni, Che Guevara)
Che Guevara - 1 (Voxxicus)
DRey - 4 (desCoures, kpaca, KittyCupCake, AtheistGod)
AtheistGod - 3 (Nis, DRey, Asenion)
Not Voting: Taredas
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Any righteous citizen should do their best to provide impartial judgement. Hounding a player for flailing is not going to lead to well thought out lynches. Is there a reason that you don't want to even consider that FO's reactions are simply a result of pressure? All I want regarding FO is for people to remember this basic aspect. Scum can also flail in that manner, but that doesn't make it an indictment of scumminess.
You could, if anyone was using the flailing as a reason to confirm FO as town? Is anyone arguing that the flailing makes FO confirmed town? This is the nature of counterexamples. It's much more work to prove a conclusive result than to point out flawed reasoning.
I'm scum because you feel slighted? This sounds like scum complaining about pressure that they don't think they earned. Also, "best candidate" would be a poor way to word this as town. I'm the "best candidate" to be lynched?
Mostly it was a few sentences throughout your posts that read as weird to me. Your post 186 reads better, but many of your earlier posts make me cautious.
Some examples being:
The more I reread the better I feel about you as town, but my initial feelings still nag at me a little.
Just remember, Stay Safe
So, @DRey: Why skip over that example?
Expand more on why he feels like scum.
I see short quote samples, but no reasoning. Expand.
I see that you don't refer to it as scummy, but unacceptable. Why?
Why/
Why, and how so?
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---
"Town, but..."
Stay with me here, that "but" is going to be a running theme for a bit.
"I think", "don't have a strong opinion", "feels like", "can't really condemn them". "okay with an FO lynch, too, I think"?
Why the equivocation? Why do you feel the need to put caveats on all of your reads, as opposed to, say, giving initial reads and asking questions about what's making you unsure/uneasy?
Uh, wait. "Not completely opposed" implies opposition. Why? Moreover, why not come out and say it? (Besides the obvious possibility of "you're scum and don't want to come down one way or the other re: DRey", either because he's scum and if you defend him you'll tie yourself to him or because he's town and you want credit for calling that while leaving yourself open to hop on later if needed. If I had to guess between those two, I'd say the former - the specific wording reminds me of scumbuddy interaction over on MS.)
And again an equivocated read on a player (note the "but"). Also note the failure to state whether he currently thinks Nis is town or scum (and the same for DRey, come to think of it). That's not town behavior.
Voxx: who do you think is scum, and why?
Why are you preemptively justifying your play, especially when you have an obvious explanation for lower activity due to a medical V/LA? Feeling nervous?
Why the "I think"? Setting up an escape hatch for later if you get called out for this post?
I mean, seriously. You're not town, and if not for DRey I'd be pseudovoting you right now.
---
First underline: I'm going to need some actual evidence before I start believing this. (And I say this DESPITE kpaca's play being an extreme annoyance.)
Second underline: Why say this?
Why Nis (especially over, say, desCoures)?
How so?
X
Uh, no. I've been voted once this entire game. The largest wagon when AG voted me was... the wagon on you. You know, the one that's *still there*.
Why "Best candidate for scum"? Do you think he's scum or not?
Hell, for that matter take a close look at the wording here. KCC and DC "conveniently ignored" X from AG... wait a minute, aren't KCC and DC the two players arguing most strongly for the DRey lynch? Not only is DRey ignoring arguments/questions... he's discrediting the people attacking him the hardest. That's not town behavior. Especially not when he's ALSO hopping onto the second-largest wagon at the same time (aka "look, a distraction!").
Another thought... I lurked Ataghan. I remember you there as being extremely argumentative and extremely willing to stand your ground when questioned. Where did that DRey go? Why are you ignoring questions here? For that matter:
I don't know if that's because everyone that's actually playing is a town read but I'm having a hard time connecting to this game, if not by my high sense of duty I would have replaced out of this boring game already, but I won't, I never will. I do think that when those things happen the problem is mostly because of a weak moderation, yes I'm calling Xyre out there, he needs to do something about activity on this game, and something drastic. [/quote]
Anybody else reminded of WoD's defense in Ataghan? (For the ignorant: in Ataghan Xyre caught WoD as scum, and WoD proceeded to claim that he'd been trying a new playstyle.) It looks to me like you're trying to justify your play with out-of-game concerns. Not defend, not explain, but *justify*. Why? Because you *can't* defend or explain it on account of being scum.
UnHoS, HoS x3: DRey (underlining instead of bolding as a precaution - don't want Xyre to misread a HoS for a vote)
DRey, if I were actually voting you (and Xyre was counting dC's vote on you) that would be a lynch. Claim in your next post or die.
Mod: desCoures should be voting DRey (as of post 130).
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Have I said anything about F1 that wasn't in reference to how you spoke about him? Switch out F1 for any other name and then read my post. My issue is not that you tried to defend F1, but rather that you used reasoning alluding to behavior in other games. When somebody brings up meta defenses, especially for others, I expect to see links.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Unless you think the person is actually scum, better to not lynch at all. Lynching someone for "being a bad townie" is ridiculous.
I'll get around to answering some of the other questions asked of me (KCC and DesCours) a little later today.
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Interesting.
unvote, vote DRey
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How is this "interesting"? And where are some answers to the last two questions I asked earlier?
Note: If dC's vote for DRey in 130 counts, then you will unvote as soon as Xyre updates the vote count OR ELSE. Got it?
---
That depends on whether or not you trust that I won't quickhammer. If you trust me, L-2 is fine (and, in fact, is what I'm doing - note that "L-2 with my HoS only counting once" and "in hammer range" are exactly the same thing). If not, the best solution is probably to only vote to L-4 and to pseudovote after that.
---
DRey, get in here and claim already.
Mod: Is unvoting required? The posted ruleset does not specify, and given that Scum mods are wildly inconsistent about whether unvoting is required, I'd like some clarity on the matter.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
...question, Nis. What in the world is your opinion of DRey?
@DRey
Agreed on the lack of posts from kpaca, but other than that - what more do I want from you? I'd like some kind of response to the points I raised against you - which, here, you are trying to imply were limited to me calling a pile of faeces a pile of faeces on your kpaca 'case'.
To whit, things you never answered or replied to:
1. How in the world kpaca's 'lurking' is any different from how he plays as town.
2. Your blatant buddying with Taredas and your attempt to push Asenion into voting kpaca based on that buddying.
3. Why you seem inclined to give Forgotten One a pass based on 'he doesn't look very experienced and will get caught sooner or later'... in a mini, where 'sooner and later' is a much shorter time frame.
And that's just from one post.
Taredas already pointed out most of what I would have had to say about this, but you putting Nis above myself at least in terms of 'playing the game' is utterly laughable - and your statement about me and KCC 'conveniently ignoring' AG's 'lack of response' (you, of course, ignoring me having FoSed AtheistGod for his lousy vote in my very last post) just reads like an attempt to discredit your attackers.
Riddle me this, DRey. From your accusation of 'conveniently ignoring AG', you appear to be implying that KCC and myself are scum with AG. If that's the case, then why in the world are you still replying to me as if I was town?
@Asenion
I don't believe you ever answered why you feel this way.
..............
...this reads so much like an attempt to stall the DRey wagon.
@Voxxicus
That was remarkably non-committal.
Why?
......
...this is a rather bad reason to stall a DRey lynch. And how are you so certain that the two aren't on the same side?
@Che Guevara
You don't really have time, all things considered, and I'm still not terribly inclined to trust you.
Also, why is this the only bit of what I had to say to you that you bothered replying to?
@Taredas
...huh? Why would this be necessary? DRey's wagon was at 3 (4, counting mine) votes, Che's vote only makes it 4(5), which is conveniently L-2 if my vote is actually where it should be.
In fact...
Unvote
Vote: DRey
DRey - claim. Now.
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@dC: I think DRey is misunderstood because I just got out of a game with him where we nearly lynched him because we didn't understand his mindset, and he was town. Also look at his past games where he gets mislynched semi-often. Frankly, I don't think traditional reads work very well on DRey. On the other hand, I am not speaking out in his defense precisely because I don't want to stall the most successful wagon on a pretty uneventful day. Even lynching someone who I would place at 60/40 odds of being town is better than stalling till deadline with no results. I also think it's completely reasonable to establish lynch and claim protocols regarding a multi-voter and it seems a bit silly to basically give Taredas the ability to make anyone claim any time he wants. I would rather that be a group decision.
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I'm just trying to work through the optimal play regarding my role.
Asenion, I'm reading DRey as playing differently under pressure from how he did in Ataghan - he was argumentative and defended himself strongly there, while here I'd characterize his response to pressure as looking for a diversion. Do you disagree? If so, why?
Nis, dC: Same question for you.
---
Because I'm pseudovoting DRey now and want the way clear for my triple vote. Sure, it's not strictly speaking *necessary*, but when it's time to prove my triple vote I'd rather not have to wait for somebody to unvote first.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
He's playing similarly to how he played in Ataghan. In other words, in a way that I find difficult not to read as scummy. I'm trying to keep a more open mind about him this game just in case, but I have noticed him buddying me a little.
In Ataghan DRey was certainly argumentative, but I wouldn't say he defended himself well. He forced his replacement because he let his emotions get the better of himself. If he hadn't been replaced by Seppel DRey would have likely been lynched.
As for this game DRey has been playing pretty similarly to past games. He states his opinions as though they're facts. He says things that sound scummy. The only real difference has been the aforementioned slight buddying.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Want to know what's odd? You were in that game, and you know Iso was not scum, heck you know we've used the same approach to determined Iso was town back there. Why skip this?
1)I know this is true because I've both read and experienced this before, Kpaca as town is usually much more active, why don't you search for this info yourself since you enjoy doing so? I remember Kpaca being lurking scum in a basic about godzilla's (don't really remember the name) while being very active on his most recent town games, he's usually NK early on as town.
2)Because I'm the one who has lots of experience with him, and know this is true.
Nis is obvtown, but why dC? Do you think he's town now?
It's obvious. Too few people is actually giving content, do you think the scumteam is comprised of only the people that are actually posting? I know some players here lurk as town (Voxx, DC comes to mind) but the other guys have no excuse.
Hum, ok, point retracted.
You are being dense, since when "best candidate for scum" means he's a town read of me? Of course I think he's scum.
I remember KCC asking for AG reasoning for his vote on you, back there I was also quite intrigued by AG bizarre play so I also was waiting for that, when he returned not only he didn't provide such reasons but he jumped to the biggest wagon without reasons (Nis already explained that, I also find strange that KCC see any reedeming quality about AG's play so far). When I ask questions, I ask because I want answers, not only to appear to be scumhunting. KCC completely missing AG's non response does not bode well for me, because it looks like she never cared about AG's scummy play in the first place.
I'm not, I've already explained that, I've answered DC question a long time ago and KCC never asked any question she only made a comment about my play.
Actually considering this game, I think my play has been stellar and I've provided much more than most. But I'm really having a hard time connecting to this game, probably for the stated reasons and for the fact that I really dislike D1.
I think that's the second time you ask for claim just because you have 3 votes or something, I will not do as you wish, nor I'm afraid of being lynched, I'm town, my role is not very good (and if I claim it will turn worthless) so it's not a big loss. So fire away if you want, I will only claim at L-2.
@mod votecount plz
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
1)Is this a joke correct? I've already answered this a long time ago. I will search and quote for you since looks like you have some reading issues.
2)What you call buddying I call town reads, and I trust Taredas quite a lot, not only everything he does has a pro-town mentality (I have been fooled by this before) but his role is exclusively townie (and SK cause of Ozone, but not on a mini, Xyre does not accept SK's for minis). So yeah, I trust him blindfolded.
3)Not really, in fact I was ready to vote him when obvscum AG showed up and made the day easier.
Actually I'm quite happy about my wagon, because only the scummiest are on it (except for Tar). All the good guys are on the AG or F1 one, but that's just my opinion.
Why do you think I'm replying to you as if you were town? Anyway I always reply to everyone even if I believe they are scum. That being said I don't have a scum read of you, just neutral or maybe slightly leaning scum. Certainly not a town read though.
Don't be dumb, if he does hammer me and proves his power he will be confirmed town, we will not lynch confirmed town ever, even if he plays badly and hammer town again and again. It's very important that you take the words of confirmed town very importantly, not because they are always correct but because they always have the town's best interest in mind. So remember. if I'm triple hammered toDay, DO NOT LYNCH TAR at all costs. Also pay attention that he should be the one to hammer all Days to continually prove his power.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
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Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Clearly, AG has been a terrible poster so far and really needs to contribute more. But, that doesn't change the fact that his post was overflowing with town tells.
Not at all. A scum would know that Tar would be effectively confirmed after one use. AG wanting it proved twice shows genuine doubt (especially since no one had previously discussed this point.)
Chaining lynches with the reasoning, "one of these must be scum, so if Player X flips town, then we should lynch Player Y next," tends to be a bad idea with obvious scum benefits. But, that isn't what AG was doing at all. -Think about it, how could his statement have resulted in one of them being lynched if both of them are town? How could it be setting anyone up then, unless one is scum?
I was referring to (and fairly obviously, I think) the rest of that quote regarding scum lists.
No, his reasoning there was explicitly that he felt DRey was deflecting the wagon, and he pointed out exactly why. It's not vague at all. -And no one else had mentioned that point.
But AG wasn't directing attention towards that connection now, he was directing hypothetical future attention in the scenario where one of them flips scum at some point. -His statement doesn't direct anything unless at least one of them is scum, and is later revealed as such.
The quote and response following this smilie were already clarification.
Yes, scum reads always need to be better supported than town reads. You need to fully explain why you are placing your one vote on someone, not why you aren't voting for the other eleven players.
AG's statement doesn't need to have merit to you, or to anyone else. If he sees something that makes him not want to place a vote somewhere, then that is all that needs to be said. Obviously, the unsupported Tar vote was less acceptable, but you are now talking about a town read. Unless, are you trying to claim that you have given thorough, well reasoned and supported cases on why you aren't voting for every single player you currently aren't voting?
It's probably because I'm analyzing it, rather than looking for ways to frame it as scummy.
BTW, is there any particular reason for why you started responding to this post at the parts after AG's clear towntell, or for why you glossed over that point entirely?
Obviously, Tar's "vote" should only be counted once for claiming. But, we were at the point where Tar's "vote" would put us at L-2.
Uh huh. And what about the part of his post I quoted which directly contradicts your "reading?"
I don't think this is at all relevant to your alignment (with a small at Che), but Iso was the SK there. We false cleared him for most of the game based on this bad reasoning.
AG's towntells in that post overshadowed the lack of response. I don't like to waste my timing chasing around bad townies.
You are at a real L-2, now. With Tar's HOS also supporting your wagon. I'm really not liking the stalling.
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So you were referring to what is basically a null tell? So if we take the scummy, noncommittal "wishy-washy" and add it to the null "scum lists" we end up with a town tell? Even if you count the scum lists as townie you still have the scummy "wishy-washy" to account for. I could understand you reading that entire statement as null at least based on the whole of its parts, but I just can't see how to read it as town.
How was DRey deflecting exactly? Here is his post that AG quoted:
Let's cut it down to just the part that might be deflection:
Wait. What's that bit at the end?
If DRey was trying to deflect onto Asen or Tar in that post why in the world would he immediately say he's against lynching either of them? Let's cut out that bit since it's obviously not deflection. What are we left with that's deflection?
Nothing.
Isn't that the case for anybody who has any sort of interaction? You and I are interacting right now. Is it scumhunting for somebody to pipe up now and say, "If KCC or Nis flips scum the other might be scum to because they interacted."? That's a wide net.
Not sure how you interpreted my meaning so incorrectly. My biggest issue with AG is that he's popping in to vote and then he disappears. When he gets called out on that he makes a post with yet another vote and some vague references to different parts of the game. It was a complete PTAP post. He referenced the case against F1 merely to reference it. He had absolutely nothing of value to add to that topic. Instead of providing any sort of evidence why people might be wrong about F1 he makes a vague assertion without any sort of backup.
I could have cared less who he named in that post. The fact that he took the time to reference F1 but not the time to actually backup his assertion means he wasn't trying to convince us about anything about F1 but rather merely make it look like he was paying attention.
That's where our disconnect is. You're claiming to analyze something that amounts to a Bazooka Joe gum wrapper joke. I'm saying there's absolutely nothing to analyze because, as I said right from the start, it's a contentless post. A PTAP (or rather a post in response to a prod) that tries to appear as though AG is following along.
You mean the part about scumlists? See above. That's a null tell.
How can a bad townie give clear towntells? Wouldn't clear town tells indicate that a player is not playing badly as town?
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Pleeeease. Obvious things like that don't need to be said to make one pro-town. Everyone knows that Tar is not confirmed town until he proves his power, but how likely do you think are the chances of him not having claimed powers considering the nature of them? I would say roughly 1% because the moment he's a proven liar is the same moment he will be lynched and he knows this, so he would not lie about powers he doesn't as scum.
Just because one can use buzzwords it mean they have good reasons? Nis has just showed there's absolutely no deflection on my post. In fact the rampant buzzword usage is a scum tell, particularly underseved ones like the one he just did.
This sentence is quite important, make note of it.
That's your opinion, I read differently, Tar read it differently. I'm town, Tar is very likely town considering his powers, you not so much. So pardon me but I'm not liking your play on this game at all.
It was not bad reasoning, it was a perfectly fine reason and it was correct back there and still is here. What made it "fail" back there was that the game was almost only comprised of neutrals. That being said I'm pretty sure we cleared him of being scum, not of being neutral. We were hunting for the scum, me even more because I was a neutral hoping to shut down the game asap. Iso was confirmed not scum, Tar is confirmed not scum. He can be a neutral though, but that's not our problem it's of the scum, we will not lynch him ever.
WTF, so you really are pushing the idea AG is a "bad townie" from his two posts with basically two naked votes? Since when you are so gullible KCC? And gullible is not even the correct word here, because AG didn't even try to fool anyone he simply dropped two naked votes in the most scumtastic way possible while not answering questions and was caught reading the game before and not posting. Why he isn't at L-2 yet while I'm? Baffling.
Remember that sentence up there? If you think "trying to frame one instead of analysing" is a scumtell why this choice of words? Why say stalling instead of slowrolling, why can't you envision town dislike claiming because they are a power role? Worse still why you try to paint everything I do as scummy when you have plenty of experience with me? You don't even have the excuse of "man, this DRey is so scummy, he's snarky, he's bullheaded, he's agressive." YOU KNOW HOW I ROLL, you have no excuse.
Seriously this is not the same player that played Eeevolution with me, there you instantly recognized me as town and worked with me quite well from the get go. In fact, I want to play a game with you now, tell me who's scum in your opinion, and when I flip town who looks worse and better? (hint: you are one of the guys that will look worse).
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I'm Cyan goo. My flavor is that I'm a pretty friendly goy(I created this pun myself :cool2:) so I like to hug everyone. However people dislike hugging me because I have dripping problem. I'm against the mafia because they are the opposite of me, so I dislike them and will show them how to behave.
My ability is that I can hug a player, that player will get covered in sticky cyan goo and everyone that targets him will also get painted, the mod will inform on the thread everyone that's sticky at the beginning of each day.
My wincon mentions more than one scum group, so I can confirm we are against more than one mafia group or there's neutrals out there. The main mafia group is the Goo Mafia.
BTW you guys suck royal ass for making me claim, there's absolutely no reason for this wagon, in fact I want to know from everyone on my wagon why I'm being voted in the next post, particularly AG.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
(7 to lynch)
Asenion - 1 (Forgotten One)
Nis - 1 (Cyouni)
Che Guevara - 1 (Voxxicus)
DRey - 5 (kpaca, KittyCupCake, AtheistGod, Che Guevara, desCoures)
AtheistGod - 3 (Nis, DRey, Asenion)
Not Voting: Taredas
Mod Note: Unvoting is not exactly required, but certainly makes my bookkeeping easier.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I will never claim without a VC first ever again.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I figured you would have some sort of cult-style ability as soon as you said you were goo earlier, but I didn't want to freak the town out or force you to claim. Your claim lines up pretty well with the flavor of the game you are from, although I feel like you are leaving a bit out. What does making people sticky do? Do you have the normal town win-condition, or do you have an addition to it based on making enough people sticky? If you are a harmless cult (TM Goo mafia) I am more than happy to work with you if you claim it now.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
I'm pretty sure you're misreading your wincon (see: AlphaInsidious's role in the original Redux), but other than that this role is massively powerful, confirmable (assuming it ever resolves), and - at risk of setup gaming - unlikely to appear on scum.
I'm not hammering you today.
Posts 194 and 207 did not look like they came from a DRey-town mindset (post 232 *does*, but I didn't get to post yesterday), and none of my other scumreads were gaining any traction from anyone else.
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Really now? Fishing AND neutral speculation when the function of DRey's role is blatantly obvious?
DRey, do NOT answer Asen's questions here.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
I need to do some reading.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Claim your exact win condition, please. Check with Xyre if you are allowed if you are worried - I don't see anything regarding it in opening posts. If he's (presumably) misreading it in the way I think he is, he's almost certain town.
It's not like I'm asking random people to claim and telling the town we have a cult on the loose. I just want DRey to clarify his role.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
It's a town tell because he read the DRey post, analyzed it, and caught an issue that no one else had previously mentioned -namely, the fact that DRey's request for a scum list lynch there looked like an attempt to push away from his own wagon.
Maybe it'd be more clear if you were reading AG's post rather than misrepping it. I mean, you are so far off from anything in his post at this point, it isn't even funny.
Here is the relevant part of AG's post:
Which is clearly referring to this part of DRey's post:
-In which AG is absolutely right in commenting that this looks like DRey trying to get out of his wagon by pushing attention elsewhere.
Uhh... no. Not even close. There is obviously differences between scum-scum interactions and other types of interactions. Looking for those is a big part of playing mafia. -And you obviously know this, so why are you playing stupid?
Yes, I'm well aware that you are pushing to lynch the low hanging fruit. You don't need to explain that to me.
This is so, so wrong. AG brought up a safety measure for Tar that hadn't been discussed. He pointed out an issue in DRey's post that hadn't been mentioned. -The post had content, and good content, you are just choosing to gloss over it.
And? He saw a wagon, he gave his opinion on it, he took a stance, and he stated why he was taking it. That's exactly how most townies handle wagons they disagree with. -You are seriously jumping through hoops to try making that look bad. -Very few players make extensive essays explaining why they aren't joining a wagon.
And again, you are only stating it is "contentless" because you aren't actually analyzing what is there and are instead just trying to make him look bad by dismissing the whole thing outright.
I think you are a strong contender for the strawman awards this year. And you absolutely know better than this.
But, I'll humor you and explain this out like it's your first game of mafia, since that's apparently what you want. Towntells refer to things that indicate a player's alignment as town (these can vary from something as small as having an opinion or viewpoint on a situation that is unlikely to be effectively mimicked by scum, to something as conclusive as showing knowledge of the town wincon that the scum wouldn't have). On the other hand, a good townie posts useful content, scumhunts effectively, and advances the gamestate.
Bad players can easily commit towntells (like claiming at L-6, which is equal parts towntell and terrible play). And just because someone posts something that indicates there alignment, it doesn't magically make them a good townie. Here, AG is being a bad townie. He isn't posting much, and when he does post, it tends to be light. Despite that, some of what he has posted shows clear town mindset behind it. That doesn't make his posts good.
But, more importantly, you obviously know all of this. So, again, why are you playing stupid?
I think his one post was so overflowing townie that I'm not interested in him. The evidence against him is simply that he is posting badly, which isn't a case, and doesn't even come close to outweighing the tells in his favor. If you want to pressure vote him to get him to post more, then go ahead, I guess. But I'd rather let the mod deal with those issues and potentially replace him, while I use my vote on players who are more likely to be scum.
None of this is relevant to the obvious town mindset behind AG's post. -Except that he clearly disagrees with you on the chance of a gambit.
You know that I was the one who called it "deflection," right? AG never used that word; he simply explained what he saw and why. I simplified.
Keep your facts straight.
Tar's interpretation was fine, after he explained it. I still disagree, but I get where he is coming from.
You, on the other hand, stated an opinion that is directly contradicted
by posts in the thread. That isn't "reading differently" -that is misrepping.
Worse, is that you still have had no response to that, unlike Tar.
IDK, I consider a SK to be scum. I think most others do as well.
One was a naked vote. The second was sufficiently explained. And I've thoroughly explained why I got a town read from him there. -Also, I'm not gullible, I'm observant. (Unless I'm wrong, in which case feel free to rub it in my face postgame like Iso did after Eeveelution).
Slowrolling is stalling. But you weren't even doing that, you were just dragging your feet. And the "town powerrole" possibility wasn't worth discussing there. -There is no way to know that without the claim, and once you do claim, if it clears you, then that's that anyway.
And not a single thing you listed there is a reason why I voted you. I know your playstyle, and my vote has nothing to do with that.
If you are town here, then you were playing better in Eeveelution.
Nis is my strongest read now. F1 is a maybe. You, I'm more hesitant on now, but I'm still not convinced on your claim. The non-AG lurkers are other possibilities.
And if you flip town, I'll look back afterwards.
I'm a little skeptical that the Cyan goo is friendly and going around hugging people (as opposed to hitting them with trains), but okay, maybe Xyre is just being ironic.
I could easily see it as a scum ability, but the wincon is more potentially telling (maybe, depending on what info the mod gave to the scum).
His claimed wincon has something in common with mine, but another part of it sounds off. -I'll second this request.
Unvote; Vote: Nis in the meantime.
Because Iso wasn't town?
You do know serial killers aren't town, right?
That seems confirmable.
Does the goo persist from day to day?
I'd really love to hear where you're getting this information from, especially the last part.
Hint: if you get lynched (or forced to claim) frequently, it's your fault. Not everyone else's.