Stormblind's #276 feels strange to me. No further questions, let's just lynch. swishh flipping town should have given him plenty to work with. He should be trying to use that information for determining a lynch, not just lynching someone without thinking.
Thing is, Swishh's gameplay was so erratic and nonsensical that it honestly didn't GIVE much room for analysis of who did what or when. Much like previous statements I've made, when playing with Seppel when he was new, or Niv, or similar players, them dying rarely mattered for analysis due to the fact that half the town wanted them dead due to how dumb their play style was, and the mafia hated them being alive due to how erratic their play could be. Example? Read Hat's mafia and Tilde on day 1. Despite people being almost certain that Tilde was town, it didn't stop almost everyone in the GAME from wanting him dead due to how erratic he was, and the fact that he wouldn't listen to anyone. AS TOWN. As stated, I felt Swishh was the same style of player, and feel macius is similar. Hence why I've largely been ignoring them based on gameplay. Their play styles are such that they will be VERY hard to read as either alignment, so I make my decisions of them based on roles. I suspect that Macius is some sort of anti-town neutral who wants to steal abilities/spread his ability thievery around. Hence my dedication to reducing him to a vanilla at BEST or dead, which would be my preference. Again, if looking for reasons why, look at almost any game I've made, half of Xyre's older games, things of that nature.
Stormblind is likely town based on 290. He's already forgotten that Tom's the vig. Scum track power roles pretty closely. Don't like that he's not really paying attention, but that's not something scum would miss, I think.
I am paying attention to the game, it's merely that Tom said one shot, which pretty much makes him town outside of reloads if they're possible (someone SHOULD probably reload him if possible, effectively gives the town 2 lynches).
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
...and we have the vig take care of the rest. (The mafia doesn't know who the vig is, and likely doesn't have a doctor to prevent it all.)
What does this mean?
Uh, in context it means we arrange for Macius to trade with someone, a major town target, and then we kill said person. Effectively treating it as a third guided town kill for the day/night 1 rotation. It would either render Macius as a vanilla with whatever ability he gets from his target, but, most importantly to me, it removes the ability thief power from the game. Which will remove alot of the insane randomness of that power from the game. I don't care for roles whose entire purpose is basically to render the game unreadable from a setup perspective.
I like static roles and players, same reason I don't like replacements in a game.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Assuming these to be true, I would say town pretty heavily as it's highly confirmable, and both ablities are highly townie.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
So you would only give those skills to someone you're absolutely sure of being Town?
Furthermore, which one would you be given considering our current situation?
Wait a second, how is 1-shot killproof a skill to be given and only received the following Night? To be killproof is a passive thing, not something you have to wait until the following Night to activate.
I'm not sure I believe in this claim. Also you haven't given name nor flavor.
Wait a second, how is 1-shot killproof a skill to be given and only received the following Night? To be killproof is a passive thing, not something you have to wait until the following Night to activate.
I'm not sure I believe in this claim. Also you haven't given name nor flavor.
Bullet-Proof vest's as a grantable item are not new. Go through games from the 2008-2009 years, they were decently common for item granters.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I don't like Void's claim nor is it reliably testable.
Quote from StormB »
I am paying attention to the game, it's merely that Tom said one shot
You aren't paying attention well enough, as I don't recall saying that. If I did say that, I'd be lying.
How is it not testable? At BEST, it gives him an extra day before we guarantee his lynch if he's lying, depending on how notifications work. (i.e. Maybe you get notified same day, but cant use it until the next day, which makes sense).
And assuming he IS telling the truth and can grant a one-shot vig or protect, I don't see how it could be possible scum.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I didn't completely think that through. I was thinking that a scum buddy could claim that they got either ability, but I didn't realize that the scum team would also have to have a x-shot vig among them for that to work.
I said Tom is one shot, because I don't believe a 14 player game has a multi-shot Dayvig. If Void's claim is true, that's probably the only other Vig ability in the game and Tom is probably expended.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I just realised that we never got results from what Rhand asked me to do before with voting someone, someone else voting and me unvoting..... due to Swishh dying.
During the Night I may give a player a 1-Shot Vig or 1-Shot Killproof. The targeted player would not get that ability until the following Night.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
It sounds like Void gave Tom his 1-shot power from these posts, but if Voids claim is true, then how could he of.
...and we have the vig take care of the rest. (The mafia doesn't know who the vig is, and likely doesn't have a doctor to prevent it all.)
What does this mean?
Uh, in context it means we arrange for Macius to trade with someone, a major town target, and then we kill said person. Effectively treating it as a third guided town kill for the day/night 1 rotation. It would either render Macius as a vanilla with whatever ability he gets from his target, but, most importantly to me, it removes the ability thief power from the game. Which will remove alot of the insane randomness of that power from the game. I don't care for roles whose entire purpose is basically to render the game unreadable from a setup perspective.
I like static roles and players, same reason I don't like replacements in a game.
Ok. I get that, though it doesn't make much sense since we'd be better off just directing Macius to not use his ability.
The issue I had with your post is now bolded in purple above. Who is the vig?
Void, the 1-shot killproof that you grant, that's a passive that protects them for the rest of the game? Could you please ask Iso if your target would receive notification for that half of your ability?
Unvote.
Macius, is Tom town or scum? What about Stormblind, Kosakosa or Rhand?
Early on you threw some questions at swishh and Macius. swishh turned up town and you later said you're usure about Macius (that's okay, I am too). Based on behaviour you said Asenion may be town.
You also called Tom town just based on being a dayvig. What about his behaviour? Is that in line there as well?
So it seems you've got a lot of town reads, but no scum leads at the moment. Can you give me a few names that you're currently suspicious of and why?
Whatever happened, I think we can't reconstruct it ToDay.
I agree that reconstructing it is unlikely -- I've tried to figure out why Macius would stick Void's vote on himself and was only rewarded with a headache from the WIFOM. I think that the best we've got to work with is the reactions thereof.
During the Night I may give a player a 1-Shot Vig or 1-Shot Killproof. The targeted player would not get that ability until the following Night.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
It sounds like Void gave Tom his 1-shot power from these posts, but if Voids claim is true, then how could he of.
It doesn't sound like that at all to me. Tom obviously had a vig shot. The usage of the word "another" doesn't imply that Void used his ability to me at all.
Even if Void's ability had a N0 clause (which would be insanely risky to use properly), a Void-gifted shot would have to wait until toNight to be usable (assuming we believe the claim).
Assuming these to be true, I would say town pretty heavily as it's highly confirmable, and both ablities are highly townie.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
Why do you think that scum!Tom would unload his shot on d1 as opposed to sandbagging it to try to get someone more dangerous or to ensure a free win at endgame?
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
So you would only give those skills to someone you're absolutely sure of being Town?
Furthermore, which one would you be given considering our current situation?
Kosa must really like seafood -- he's working hard at fishing.
I'm happy to wait on a test of Void's power before lynching him, we probably want a plan for tonight, seeing as we want to test both Void and Macius' powers. I'd suggest void giving someone pro town a 1-shot NK prot, if they get told they receive it. It might well protect them for a good while, because the scum will know they're protected. Or will that give the scum too much info? Just thinking out loud
I'm happy to wait on a test of Void's power before lynching him, we probably want a plan for tonight, seeing as we want to test both Void and Macius' powers. I'd suggest void giving someone pro town a 1-shot NK prot, if they get told they receive it. It might well protect them for a good while, because the scum will know they're protected. Or will that give the scum too much info? Just thinking out loud
Vote Jonpike1.
Yeah, that post screamed scum to me as well.
Also, Stardust... It's a 1-Shot Killproof. Meaning that the player will have a 1-Shot Killproof for the remainder the game barring that the player is not targeted for a Kill. Once targeted for the Kill and the Kill action resolves, then the player will lose the 1-Shot.
Arianrhod
You may consider it WIFOM, but if the scum team doesn't have Day Chat and the DK was not discussed prior, then I could see Tom blowing his Shot this early thinking it would give him Town Credit. Tom is inexperienced (No offense, Tom) and still has some to learn about the game. I know what I am stating is weak sauce, but if Tom ever flips Scum, then we will know that the Scum team does not have Day Chat.
...and we have the vig take care of the rest. (The mafia doesn't know who the vig is, and likely doesn't have a doctor to prevent it all.)
What does this mean?
Uh, in context it means we arrange for Macius to trade with someone, a major town target, and then we kill said person. Effectively treating it as a third guided town kill for the day/night 1 rotation. It would either render Macius as a vanilla with whatever ability he gets from his target, but, most importantly to me, it removes the ability thief power from the game. Which will remove alot of the insane randomness of that power from the game. I don't care for roles whose entire purpose is basically to render the game unreadable from a setup perspective.
I like static roles and players, same reason I don't like replacements in a game.
Ok. I get that, though it doesn't make much sense since we'd be better off just directing Macius to not use his ability.
The issue I had with your post is now bolded in purple above. Who is the vig?
Void, the 1-shot killproof that you grant, that's a passive that protects them for the rest of the game? Could you please ask Iso if your target would receive notification for that half of your ability?
Unvote.
Macius, is Tom town or scum? What about Stormblind, Kosakosa or Rhand?
Again, I apparently wasn't paying very much attention and thought Tom was a one-shot dayvig. Which means the mafia DOES know who the vig is.
To be fair, it's probably because I am not terribly fond of multi-shot Dayvigs in most mafia games from a design perspective, due to the sheer power they offer the town. Assuming we don't out the doctor, we pretty much have free reign to get 2 lynches a day if Tom listens to town guidance.
Him being multishot also clears him beyond a shadow of a doubt; and anyone even considering otherwise is incredibly suspect IMO.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Again, I apparently wasn't paying very much attention and thought Tom was a one-shot dayvig. Which means the mafia DOES know who the vig is.
To be fair, it's probably because I am not terribly fond of multi-shot Dayvigs in most mafia games from a design perspective, due to the sheer power they offer the town. Assuming we don't out the doctor, we pretty much have free reign to get 2 lynches a day if Tom listens to town guidance.
Him being multishot also clears him beyond a shadow of a doubt; and anyone even considering otherwise is incredibly suspect IMO.
Do you consider a multi-shot vig a game requirement, even for a smaller game like this? Basically, I don't see how you could have made the assumption that we would have a vig apart from Tom (even if he was 1-shot).
Void, did you PM Iso about the notification for your killproof half? Please do. While you're at it, ask when the target would get notification of the vig ability too (is it immediately, or at the beginning of the next night, or what?).
...and we have the vig take care of the rest. (The mafia doesn't know who the vig is, and likely doesn't have a doctor to prevent it all.)
What does this mean?
Uh, in context it means we arrange for Macius to trade with someone, a major town target, and then we kill said person. Effectively treating it as a third guided town kill for the day/night 1 rotation. It would either render Macius as a vanilla with whatever ability he gets from his target, but, most importantly to me, it removes the ability thief power from the game. Which will remove alot of the insane randomness of that power from the game. I don't care for roles whose entire purpose is basically to render the game unreadable from a setup perspective.
I like static roles and players, same reason I don't like replacements in a game.
Ok. I get that, though it doesn't make much sense since we'd be better off just directing Macius to not use his ability.
The issue I had with your post is now bolded in purple above. Who is the vig?
Void, the 1-shot killproof that you grant, that's a passive that protects them for the rest of the game? Could you please ask Iso if your target would receive notification for that half of your ability?
Unvote.
Macius, is Tom town or scum? What about Stormblind, Kosakosa or Rhand?
Again, I apparently wasn't paying very much attention and thought Tom was a one-shot dayvig. Which means the mafia DOES know who the vig is.
To be fair, it's probably because I am not terribly fond of multi-shot Dayvigs in most mafia games from a design perspective, due to the sheer power they offer the town. Assuming we don't out the doctor, we pretty much have free reign to get 2 lynches a day if Tom listens to town guidance.
Him being multishot also clears him beyond a shadow of a doubt; and anyone even considering otherwise is incredibly suspect IMO.
I don't have the time to go back and check right this moment, but I believe all Tom did was confirm that he hadn't claimed 1-shot. This does not mean that he is multishot. He may still be 1-shot and just choosing not to claim that he is such.
@Void: What are your current reads for town/mafia?
@Tom: Ditto.
I'm asking you two as, IMO you guys are pretty much clear and I'd like to hear your opinions.
Tom, Void, do as you please, but I personally would not answer this question, at least not completely. You're as cleared as town as you can be in Day 1. Dumping your reads into the thread gives scum a great jumping point for barning a case on a townie, or knowing who they might be able to convince you to lynch.
@Void: What are your current reads for town/mafia?
@Tom: Ditto.
I'm asking you two as, IMO you guys are pretty much clear and I'd like to hear your opinions.
So you can decide which one of the two killing abilities you want to eliminate first ToNight?
I would prefer both keeping their reads for themselves at this point.
I don't have the time to go back and check right this moment, but I believe all Tom did was confirm that he hadn't claimed 1-shot. This does not mean that he is multishot. He may still be 1-shot and just choosing not to claim that he is such.
Again, I apparently wasn't paying very much attention and thought Tom was a one-shot dayvig. Which means the mafia DOES know who the vig is.
To be fair, it's probably because I am not terribly fond of multi-shot Dayvigs in most mafia games from a design perspective, due to the sheer power they offer the town. Assuming we don't out the doctor, we pretty much have free reign to get 2 lynches a day if Tom listens to town guidance.
Him being multishot also clears him beyond a shadow of a doubt; and anyone even considering otherwise is incredibly suspect IMO.
Do you consider a multi-shot vig a game requirement, even for a smaller game like this? Basically, I don't see how you could have made the assumption that we would have a vig apart from Tom (even if he was 1-shot).
Void, did you PM Iso about the notification for your killproof half? Please do. While you're at it, ask when the target would get notification of the vig ability too (is it immediately, or at the beginning of the next night, or what?).
I *VERY* rarely see ONLY oneshot vigs in a game this size. It actually *HURTS* the mafia to only have a one shot vig and no multi. Interestingly, vig's are one of the most anti-town town roles
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
@Void: What are your current reads for town/mafia?
@Tom: Ditto.
I'm asking you two as, IMO you guys are pretty much clear and I'd like to hear your opinions.
So you can decide which one of the two killing abilities you want to eliminate first ToNight?
I would prefer both keeping their reads for themselves at this point.
Even if Void's ability had a N0 clause (which would be insanely risky to use properly), a Void-gifted shot would have to wait until toNight to be usable (assuming we believe the claim).
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
I am curious about the Capitalized N thing you three seem to be doing. Maybe I'm being entirely too paranoid, or it's an inside joke I don't get, it's just something I kept seeing and it made me curious on reread.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I *VERY* rarely see ONLY oneshot vigs in a game this size. It actually *HURTS* the mafia to only have a one shot vig and no multi. Interestingly, vig's are one of the most anti-town town roles
While I would strongly disagree with that statement, that's a conversation for another thread.
You've proven that the town tell I found before is nothing of the sort. I wrote up a vote and started putting together a case, but it didn't feel right as I put it all together, so I deleted it. Instead, I'd like you to answer these questions:
1) Rhand and I think Tom and Void dumping their reads into the thread is a bad idea. Why do you think it's a good idea?
2) What were you thinking as you made this post? I don't care about the post after it, I want to know what went through your mind for the first one.
3) You think Macius is scum. Who are his buddies and why?
Stardust
They will receive a notification, but I don't know when. I'm waiting for a reply from Iso. My guess is that they would be informed at the start of the next Day as that is how I would handle it from a Mod perspective.
StormBlind Scum
Tom (DK on Swishh. Discredit of natural reactions. Overall play has not been impressive)
Macius (His play was awful early on. The FoS doesn't look as bad now that Swishh flipped Town. Theif claim bothers me a lot. I'm more interested in why my Vote is locked on him and lynching him seems like a viable option to get my Vote freed up.
Jonpike1 (His most recent post screamed scum to me. It's near contentless and has only has to with my claim. No comments about other players or reads. And the "thinking out loud :p" portion is completely forced/faked to sound to Town.)
TCMT (For calling Tom's DK a good move. There was nothing good about it. Scum would get a free kill becasue of Swishh's awful play this game. Calling the DK good would only come from a scum mind set at that point.)
If I could move my vote it would be on either Jonpike1 or TCMT and Tom at a distant third. More votes on TCMT would be good.
Everyone else is either a Town or Null read. I will not provide those reads at the moment for reasons stated ITT.
1) Rhand and I think Tom and Void dumping their reads into the thread is a bad idea. Why do you think it's a good idea?
Because it gives us somewhere to look without any fears of it being scum going after low hanging fruit. Because it's GUIDED behaviour from a GUARANTEED townie. That's a very useful thing day 1. And hopefully there would be consensus between them and that would provide us a place to look from 2 people we KNOW aren't mafioso.
Please explain how this is bad. I'm not saying we just mindlessly barn, ofcourse I'd want to see arguments, but it provides somewhere to start looking.
2) What were you thinking as you made this post? I don't care about the post after it, I want to know what went through your mind for the first one.
My hatred of RVS is well established going back *YEARS*. I usually either try to curtail it quickly, or simply don't participate. I generally don't feel the desire to go through a day-3 days of "WELL I VOTE ROB FOR HAVING PURPLE PANTS!"
3) You think Macius is scum. Who are his buddies and why?
I have clarified since that I consider him, at best, an anti-town neutral. I just don't see how someone who wants to STEAL a role from someone would be townie. If he hadn't have gotten caught, he would have used that ability, potentially stolen a power role, etc. I can see that *EASILY* being a huge power role for the mafia. Steal a role from someone, and organize the mafia kill on them the same night, then boom, you have a mafioso with a townie ability who can ride that to end game. Or steal it from someone who was confirmed town, kill them, and say "oh I was a backup X.".
I Just don't see a role SO full of WIFOM being townie at all as all it does is introduce uncertainty and confusion.
As for his buddies?
I'll just give my reads on a player by player basis.
WARRIORS:
1. Rhand - I feel good about you mostly due to the debate we had over what to do about Macius. I find most scum rarely want to sit down and get involved in a highly engaged conversation, and put so much STAKE on someone who (I feel) is so likely to be non-town.
2. Tom - He's a Vig. Nuff said. Unless the Mafia don't have an NK tonight, I think it's safe to say he's cleared as a mafioso. I do think we need to see another shot out of him, especially with Void out there, otherwise he's called back into question. And if we have another vig, I'd say he's the one most likely to be called into question IMO. I find repeat dayvigs more the purview of SK's then Vigs honestly assuming there's a multi-vig situation.
3. The Most Curious Thing - I honestly don't have much of ANY read on TMCT. I've found his content to be largely nonexistant this game.
4. Kosakosa - Seems quieter then what I've seen from him. Not sure how that reads compared to his meta, but he isn't standing out to me, which makes me curious as the few games I've read him in, he's tended to be fairly outspoken. Honestly not a fan of how, post his claim, he comes out continuing to attack Void and his potential townieness.
5. Arianrhod - Largely the same situation as TMCT, but I have 0 basis to work off of with him. Doesn't really stick out at all.
6. AtheistGod* - Is replaced, nuff said. I think he has like, 3 posts all game.
7. Guardman - He's here, he's voicing his opinions, and generally taking positions on the events in the game; which is more then half the playerbase. Leaning town if only because he's providing enough material that we can disect his play later in the game and analyze it for behavioural analysis.
8. Asenion - I really am not feeling his random attacks on people with near to no basis on anything. His most recent posts have consisted on "we need to lynch stormblind" and 3 consecutive posts of how tom's probably expended and/or the wrong person to run up. Seriously, look at how much "Content" his posts have had.
9. Void - He's a merchant, a role I don't think I've ever seen on a scum, especially with the toolset he has available.
10. Macius - 100% sure this guy is not town. Again, I've outlined why above, if people don't agree, I'd honestly like to know HOW anyone could consider his role townie or pro-town at all. And again, please provide any suggestions about how his BEHAVIOUR is pro-town. I am honestly fairly amazed that his claim was enough to make people *NOT* lynch him. Add onto that the vote being locked on him, and his entire PRESENCE in the game has been nothing but WIFOM and confusery.
12. StormBlind - OBVS town.
13. Stardust - Is here and providing content atleast, which is again, more then quite a few people in this game.
14. Jonpike1 - Same problem as TMCT and KosaKosa, they don't seem to really be in the game in regards to content. They're coasting by, leaving near to no real memory of them nor content to really analyze. Threw suspicion onto void with his vote believing void to be at the heart of his own inability to vote, his recent thing of " Or will that give the scum too much info? Just thinking out loud :P" just feels ENTIRELY too snarky imo. Sort of a "HAHA" kind of thing.
Hmmm, looks like I was wrong. Sorry you didn't live long Swishh. So Dayvig is almost certainly town, and we can listen to Swishh's suspicions more, I'll re read the thread with that knowledge in a bit. I'm trying to be more active, feel free to tell me if you want more posts, and i'll try to oblige
This post also seriously rubbed me the wrong way. Especially the pink end of things. He also said he'd try to post more, then SLOWED DOWN in posting. HE went from 1 a day up to that point, down to once every 2 days.
My best bet for non-town at this point are Macius (Pretty definite), JonPike1 (Not liking...any of his posts the past week), Asenion (nearly contentless outside of voting me with the explanation of "READ HIS RECENT POSTS"), TMCT (Coasting to an insane degree), arianhrod (Coasting to an insane degree), KosaKosa (Alot quieter then I am used too from him.). I will reserve judgement on AthiestGod's replacement until day 2.
Problem is, it's fairly hard to nail anything down with, what feels like, quite a few people who are barely here.
Happy?
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
@AR: Sorry but how is that fishing? I'm not asking for whom he will target.
Void's claim is verifiable, but only if he 1) does not disclose his target to ensure he lives through the NK and confirm Void's claim on the following Day or 2) if we protect his target in every possible way. Am I wrong here?
So apparently Stormblind determines who is town and scum exclusively based on their role. I guess he's never heard of a specialty game where offbeat roles are handed out to either faction often.
I do agree with his point on me though, my content this game has been ****. I believe the Swish wagon needs to be analyzed because there is a lot of information there. I also think I need to actually get around to making a case on Stormblind. Neither thing has happened because I've been lazy.
I'm undecided on Tom's allegiance. Being a dayvig makes it less likely for him to be scum, especially if he can shoot again, but it's not enough to sell me. If Tom CAN shoot again though, he needs to let the town vote on his next target. (He basically did with Swish, which was fine.)
Void has struck me as town from the start of the game. He's making an effort, scumhunting, and trying to figure things out. No scum mindset from what I can see.
Macius strikes me as mostly noob. I don't know his alignment. It's true that his ability is more useful for scum, but that doesn't really matter in a specialty. I would recommend that he not use it though. As further evidence that abilities can go either way, Swish had a similar role that could screw with people and ended up being town.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
@AR: Sorry but how is that fishing? I'm not asking for whom he will target.
Void's claim is verifiable, but only if he 1) does not disclose his target to ensure he lives through the NK and confirm Void's claim on the following Day or 2) if we protect his target in every possible way. Am I wrong here?
I don't think that Void should even be claiming which of his abilities he's using, because that could shape the scum's plans too much. I -think- that every scumteam I've played against (or with, if you want to count Ataghan) has a roleblocker of some kind or another. What Void's giving out should remain a mystery IMO.
Also, Kosa: can you point me at why you think that Void is scum / falseclaiming (if you said it already)? I just can't see it.
Thing is, Swishh's gameplay was so erratic and nonsensical that it honestly didn't GIVE much room for analysis of who did what or when. Much like previous statements I've made, when playing with Seppel when he was new, or Niv, or similar players, them dying rarely mattered for analysis due to the fact that half the town wanted them dead due to how dumb their play style was, and the mafia hated them being alive due to how erratic their play could be. Example? Read Hat's mafia and Tilde on day 1. Despite people being almost certain that Tilde was town, it didn't stop almost everyone in the GAME from wanting him dead due to how erratic he was, and the fact that he wouldn't listen to anyone. AS TOWN. As stated, I felt Swishh was the same style of player, and feel macius is similar. Hence why I've largely been ignoring them based on gameplay. Their play styles are such that they will be VERY hard to read as either alignment, so I make my decisions of them based on roles. I suspect that Macius is some sort of anti-town neutral who wants to steal abilities/spread his ability thievery around. Hence my dedication to reducing him to a vanilla at BEST or dead, which would be my preference. Again, if looking for reasons why, look at almost any game I've made, half of Xyre's older games, things of that nature.
I am paying attention to the game, it's merely that Tom said one shot, which pretty much makes him town outside of reloads if they're possible (someone SHOULD probably reload him if possible, effectively gives the town 2 lynches).
What does this mean?
Uh, in context it means we arrange for Macius to trade with someone, a major town target, and then we kill said person. Effectively treating it as a third guided town kill for the day/night 1 rotation. It would either render Macius as a vanilla with whatever ability he gets from his target, but, most importantly to me, it removes the ability thief power from the game. Which will remove alot of the insane randomness of that power from the game. I don't care for roles whose entire purpose is basically to render the game unreadable from a setup perspective.
I like static roles and players, same reason I don't like replacements in a game.
With my vote, Void is at L-2.
During the Night I may give a player a 1-Shot Vig or 1-Shot Killproof. The targeted player would not get that ability until the following Night.
Stardust
In order to change a Vote I need Unvote first. Meaning I did try to Unvote...
Stardust is a good Town option after that post.
I have no problems using my ability toNight, but I will not give Tom another Vig Shot. I do not trust him and believe him to be scum for his Day Kill and jump to discredit any natrual reactions that came from that one post of mine. There is no town motivation behind a post like Tom's.
So you would only give those skills to someone you're absolutely sure of being Town?
Furthermore, which one would you be given considering our current situation?
I'm not sure I believe in this claim. Also you haven't given name nor flavor.
Bullet-Proof vest's as a grantable item are not new. Go through games from the 2008-2009 years, they were decently common for item granters.
You aren't paying attention well enough, as I don't recall saying that. If I did say that, I'd be lying.
Well, Oops then. I guess I'm transposing, and not reading closely enough.
How is it not testable? At BEST, it gives him an extra day before we guarantee his lynch if he's lying, depending on how notifications work. (i.e. Maybe you get notified same day, but cant use it until the next day, which makes sense).
And assuming he IS telling the truth and can grant a one-shot vig or protect, I don't see how it could be possible scum.
Hmmm Unvote while I think about this...
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Should we still test that theory he had?
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySomething caught my eye.
It sounds like Void gave Tom his 1-shot power from these posts, but if Voids claim is true, then how could he of.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyOk. I get that, though it doesn't make much sense since we'd be better off just directing Macius to not use his ability.
The issue I had with your post is now bolded in purple above. Who is the vig?
Void, the 1-shot killproof that you grant, that's a passive that protects them for the rest of the game? Could you please ask Iso if your target would receive notification for that half of your ability?
Unvote.
Macius, is Tom town or scum? What about Stormblind, Kosakosa or Rhand?
Why those 4? (don't answer before Macius answered if that can influence what you need from him)
Tom's Daykill didn't do anything for you - do you think he's town or scum based on behaviour?
Early on you threw some questions at swishh and Macius. swishh turned up town and you later said you're usure about Macius (that's okay, I am too). Based on behaviour you said Asenion may be town.
You also called Tom town just based on being a dayvig. What about his behaviour? Is that in line there as well?
So it seems you've got a lot of town reads, but no scum leads at the moment. Can you give me a few names that you're currently suspicious of and why?
I agree that reconstructing it is unlikely -- I've tried to figure out why Macius would stick Void's vote on himself and was only rewarded with a headache from the WIFOM. I think that the best we've got to work with is the reactions thereof.
It doesn't sound like that at all to me. Tom obviously had a vig shot. The usage of the word "another" doesn't imply that Void used his ability to me at all.
Even if Void's ability had a N0 clause (which would be insanely risky to use properly), a Void-gifted shot would have to wait until toNight to be usable (assuming we believe the claim).
Why do you think that scum!Tom would unload his shot on d1 as opposed to sandbagging it to try to get someone more dangerous or to ensure a free win at endgame?
Kosa must really like seafood -- he's working hard at fishing.
Vote Jonpike1.
Yeah, that post screamed scum to me as well.
Also, Stardust... It's a 1-Shot Killproof. Meaning that the player will have a 1-Shot Killproof for the remainder the game barring that the player is not targeted for a Kill. Once targeted for the Kill and the Kill action resolves, then the player will lose the 1-Shot.
Arianrhod
You may consider it WIFOM, but if the scum team doesn't have Day Chat and the DK was not discussed prior, then I could see Tom blowing his Shot this early thinking it would give him Town Credit. Tom is inexperienced (No offense, Tom) and still has some to learn about the game. I know what I am stating is weak sauce, but if Tom ever flips Scum, then we will know that the Scum team does not have Day Chat.
Again, I apparently wasn't paying very much attention and thought Tom was a one-shot dayvig. Which means the mafia DOES know who the vig is.
To be fair, it's probably because I am not terribly fond of multi-shot Dayvigs in most mafia games from a design perspective, due to the sheer power they offer the town. Assuming we don't out the doctor, we pretty much have free reign to get 2 lynches a day if Tom listens to town guidance.
Him being multishot also clears him beyond a shadow of a doubt; and anyone even considering otherwise is incredibly suspect IMO.
@Tom: Ditto.
I'm asking you two as, IMO you guys are pretty much clear and I'd like to hear your opinions.
Do you consider a multi-shot vig a game requirement, even for a smaller game like this? Basically, I don't see how you could have made the assumption that we would have a vig apart from Tom (even if he was 1-shot).
Void, did you PM Iso about the notification for your killproof half? Please do. While you're at it, ask when the target would get notification of the vig ability too (is it immediately, or at the beginning of the next night, or what?).
I don't have the time to go back and check right this moment, but I believe all Tom did was confirm that he hadn't claimed 1-shot. This does not mean that he is multishot. He may still be 1-shot and just choosing not to claim that he is such.
Tom, Void, do as you please, but I personally would not answer this question, at least not completely. You're as cleared as town as you can be in Day 1. Dumping your reads into the thread gives scum a great jumping point for barning a case on a townie, or knowing who they might be able to convince you to lynch.
So you can decide which one of the two killing abilities you want to eliminate first ToNight?
I would prefer both keeping their reads for themselves at this point.
Stardust: I sometimes think you're my alter-ego.
Nope.
I *VERY* rarely see ONLY oneshot vigs in a game this size. It actually *HURTS* the mafia to only have a one shot vig and no multi. Interestingly, vig's are one of the most anti-town town roles
I am curious about the Capitalized N thing you three seem to be doing. Maybe I'm being entirely too paranoid, or it's an inside joke I don't get, it's just something I kept seeing and it made me curious on reread.
Ah, okay. Hence the curiosity.
While I would strongly disagree with that statement, that's a conversation for another thread.
You've proven that the town tell I found before is nothing of the sort. I wrote up a vote and started putting together a case, but it didn't feel right as I put it all together, so I deleted it. Instead, I'd like you to answer these questions:
1) Rhand and I think Tom and Void dumping their reads into the thread is a bad idea. Why do you think it's a good idea?
2) What were you thinking as you made this post? I don't care about the post after it, I want to know what went through your mind for the first one.
3) You think Macius is scum. Who are his buddies and why?
They will receive a notification, but I don't know when. I'm waiting for a reply from Iso. My guess is that they would be informed at the start of the next Day as that is how I would handle it from a Mod perspective.
StormBlind
Scum
Tom (DK on Swishh. Discredit of natural reactions. Overall play has not been impressive)
Macius (His play was awful early on. The FoS doesn't look as bad now that Swishh flipped Town. Theif claim bothers me a lot. I'm more interested in why my Vote is locked on him and lynching him seems like a viable option to get my Vote freed up.
Jonpike1 (His most recent post screamed scum to me. It's near contentless and has only has to with my claim. No comments about other players or reads. And the "thinking out loud :p" portion is completely forced/faked to sound to Town.)
TCMT (For calling Tom's DK a good move. There was nothing good about it. Scum would get a free kill becasue of Swishh's awful play this game. Calling the DK good would only come from a scum mind set at that point.)
If I could move my vote it would be on either Jonpike1 or TCMT and Tom at a distant third. More votes on TCMT would be good.
Everyone else is either a Town or Null read. I will not provide those reads at the moment for reasons stated ITT.
My thoughts on this game:
Macius is scum.
I will figure out the other stuff, like his buddies, after he is lynched.
As for Tom nothing really has stood out other than the vig shot, so I have a neutral opinion of him based on behavior.
Please explain how this is bad. I'm not saying we just mindlessly barn, ofcourse I'd want to see arguments, but it provides somewhere to start looking.
My hatred of RVS is well established going back *YEARS*. I usually either try to curtail it quickly, or simply don't participate. I generally don't feel the desire to go through a day-3 days of "WELL I VOTE ROB FOR HAVING PURPLE PANTS!"
I have clarified since that I consider him, at best, an anti-town neutral. I just don't see how someone who wants to STEAL a role from someone would be townie. If he hadn't have gotten caught, he would have used that ability, potentially stolen a power role, etc. I can see that *EASILY* being a huge power role for the mafia. Steal a role from someone, and organize the mafia kill on them the same night, then boom, you have a mafioso with a townie ability who can ride that to end game. Or steal it from someone who was confirmed town, kill them, and say "oh I was a backup X.".
I Just don't see a role SO full of WIFOM being townie at all as all it does is introduce uncertainty and confusion.
As for his buddies?
I'll just give my reads on a player by player basis.
WARRIORS:
1. Rhand - I feel good about you mostly due to the debate we had over what to do about Macius. I find most scum rarely want to sit down and get involved in a highly engaged conversation, and put so much STAKE on someone who (I feel) is so likely to be non-town.
2. Tom - He's a Vig. Nuff said. Unless the Mafia don't have an NK tonight, I think it's safe to say he's cleared as a mafioso. I do think we need to see another shot out of him, especially with Void out there, otherwise he's called back into question. And if we have another vig, I'd say he's the one most likely to be called into question IMO. I find repeat dayvigs more the purview of SK's then Vigs honestly assuming there's a multi-vig situation.
3. The Most Curious Thing - I honestly don't have much of ANY read on TMCT. I've found his content to be largely nonexistant this game.
4. Kosakosa - Seems quieter then what I've seen from him. Not sure how that reads compared to his meta, but he isn't standing out to me, which makes me curious as the few games I've read him in, he's tended to be fairly outspoken. Honestly not a fan of how, post his claim, he comes out continuing to attack Void and his potential townieness.
5. Arianrhod - Largely the same situation as TMCT, but I have 0 basis to work off of with him. Doesn't really stick out at all.
6. AtheistGod* - Is replaced, nuff said. I think he has like, 3 posts all game.
7. Guardman - He's here, he's voicing his opinions, and generally taking positions on the events in the game; which is more then half the playerbase. Leaning town if only because he's providing enough material that we can disect his play later in the game and analyze it for behavioural analysis.
8. Asenion - I really am not feeling his random attacks on people with near to no basis on anything. His most recent posts have consisted on "we need to lynch stormblind" and 3 consecutive posts of how tom's probably expended and/or the wrong person to run up. Seriously, look at how much "Content" his posts have had.
9. Void - He's a merchant, a role I don't think I've ever seen on a scum, especially with the toolset he has available.
10. Macius - 100% sure this guy is not town. Again, I've outlined why above, if people don't agree, I'd honestly like to know HOW anyone could consider his role townie or pro-town at all. And again, please provide any suggestions about how his BEHAVIOUR is pro-town. I am honestly fairly amazed that his claim was enough to make people *NOT* lynch him. Add onto that the vote being locked on him, and his entire PRESENCE in the game has been nothing but WIFOM and confusery.
12. StormBlind - OBVS town.
13. Stardust - Is here and providing content atleast, which is again, more then quite a few people in this game.
14. Jonpike1 - Same problem as TMCT and KosaKosa, they don't seem to really be in the game in regards to content. They're coasting by, leaving near to no real memory of them nor content to really analyze. Threw suspicion onto void with his vote believing void to be at the heart of his own inability to vote, his recent thing of " Or will that give the scum too much info? Just thinking out loud :P" just feels ENTIRELY too snarky imo. Sort of a "HAHA" kind of thing.
This post also seriously rubbed me the wrong way. Especially the pink end of things. He also said he'd try to post more, then SLOWED DOWN in posting. HE went from 1 a day up to that point, down to once every 2 days.
Because it gives us somewhere to look without any fears of it being scum going after low hanging fruit. Because it's GUIDED behaviour from a GUARANTEED townie. That's a very useful thing day 1. And hopefully there would be consensus between them and that would provide us a place to look from 2 people we KNOW aren't mafioso.
My best bet for non-town at this point are Macius (Pretty definite), JonPike1 (Not liking...any of his posts the past week), Asenion (nearly contentless outside of voting me with the explanation of "READ HIS RECENT POSTS"), TMCT (Coasting to an insane degree), arianhrod (Coasting to an insane degree), KosaKosa (Alot quieter then I am used too from him.). I will reserve judgement on AthiestGod's replacement until day 2.
Problem is, it's fairly hard to nail anything down with, what feels like, quite a few people who are barely here.
Happy?
Void's claim is verifiable, but only if he 1) does not disclose his target to ensure he lives through the NK and confirm Void's claim on the following Day or 2) if we protect his target in every possible way. Am I wrong here?
I do agree with his point on me though, my content this game has been ****. I believe the Swish wagon needs to be analyzed because there is a lot of information there. I also think I need to actually get around to making a case on Stormblind. Neither thing has happened because I've been lazy.
I'm undecided on Tom's allegiance. Being a dayvig makes it less likely for him to be scum, especially if he can shoot again, but it's not enough to sell me. If Tom CAN shoot again though, he needs to let the town vote on his next target. (He basically did with Swish, which was fine.)
Void has struck me as town from the start of the game. He's making an effort, scumhunting, and trying to figure things out. No scum mindset from what I can see.
Macius strikes me as mostly noob. I don't know his alignment. It's true that his ability is more useful for scum, but that doesn't really matter in a specialty. I would recommend that he not use it though. As further evidence that abilities can go either way, Swish had a similar role that could screw with people and ended up being town.
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I don't think that Void should even be claiming which of his abilities he's using, because that could shape the scum's plans too much. I -think- that every scumteam I've played against (or with, if you want to count Ataghan) has a roleblocker of some kind or another. What Void's giving out should remain a mystery IMO.
Also, Kosa: can you point me at why you think that Void is scum / falseclaiming (if you said it already)? I just can't see it.
You just slipped because you don't know the structure of the Town Role PM looks like.
KK is confirmed scum. Lynch him.
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