My thought process at the time was "maybe they have a plan that they want to execute but they can't if the game goes by too fast".
That doesn't make sense. The scum want the game to go fast. The Day is our strongest weapon. The faster the game, the shorter the Day, which means less discussion. It should be obvious how that benefits scum.
That doesn't make sense. The scum want the game to go fast. The Day is our strongest weapon. The faster the game, the shorter the Day, which means less discussion. It should be obvious how that benefits scum.
I think my thought process after the plan idea was "they don't want the game to go quickly because if they manage to prolong it, they can get more mafia kills."
I feel, as a few others have said, like the chance of either che or polski being scum is high. Because of that I'd like to see equal pressure on both to potentially cause one to crack. Since its 3 votes che and now only 2 on polski, vote polski.
A vote by itself does nothing. If you want to pressure me, you need to question me. Call my posts into question, try and make me stumble or crack. Point out any fallacies you might find, make me answer for them.
I feel, as a few others have said, like the chance of either che or polski being scum is high. Because of that I'd like to see equal pressure on both to potentially cause one to crack. Since its 3 votes che and now only 2 on polski, vote polski.
Could you please provide quotes and in your own words explain why polski is scummy and why I am scummy?
I ask this mainly because you are the third vote with weak reasoning.
I did suspect the che, that's why I qualified it with the comment about you not bring on. I'm British so in the same boat, but I work shifts do may pop up at random times.
Ok enough of my life story, why have you not questioned me further about my voting for you? It can't be defeatist, you only have three votes. I expected an exchange of words st the very least... I'm slightly disappointed if I'm honest.
Liking that rule on breaking RVS Rhand. I hav learned something new today. Oh, that and the fact the RVS stage here is a pissing contest that hasn't given me much to go on.
Do you guys always follow the same format in every game? Cos the last two I looked at here is an RVS of a voting frenzy followed by paranoia at every post coming out of RVas.
And if I say RVS one more time in this post, I win a prize from Iso!
........ RVS
RVS means Random Voting Stage, so yes, we randomly vote until someone gets paranoia
the only scummy thing that has stood out so far is three votes on the same person in RVS.
I'm sorry, but that's just not scummy at all. 3 votes in an RVS is extremely common, 4 isn't terribly rare, and I've even seen 5 a couple times. And that's only for 12 player games.
RVS is Random voting stage. There's nothing random about a 4th or 5th vote on someone. Do you have examples of that happening?
I am voting Polski.
I unvoted generic 2 posts after I voted him
Why are you voting ikslop here? Your "fair enough" exchange seemed concluding to me, yet no unvote.
It was a good answer, but that doesn't make him town.
His nonsense about waiting for your questions and then not seeing the need to follow up on the answers reeks of scum.
And then, when pressured about that, he does ask a question.
I also wonder if it's a coincidence that he uses your questions to want answered while you pick up a chainsaw to defend him later on.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Self-aware as scum. Vote Che Guevara
The only thing I can see in Che's quoted post that could possibly be construed as self-awareness is the part where he remembered what he did.
Yeah, weakest attack yet if I'm understanding it correctly.
What's wrong with asking Shark what he sees as self-awareness?
What you do is sling mud and then add that you might have been wrong about the slinging of said mud.
This attack is weak and feels forced. Mistshadow (can I call you MS?), what do you feel is scummy about being insistent on games going at a set pace?
I'm happy with my vote on you.
Call me Mist please, that's my preferred shortening of my name.
Also, looking back on that post now, I realize that your statement about the attack is correct. My apologies for the inexperienced scum hunting on my part.
I do have a question for you, however: Can you give me your full reasoning for voting me? In particular, what parts of my posts did you find scummy?
Voting someone is concrete and applies pressure. All a FoS does is keep you away from a possible bad lynch and keeps you under the radar. 2 things scum do. Nothing townie comes from a FoS, AT ALL.
It did for me. I wasn't sure which of you was most likely mafia (could be both). You sudden issue with it felt like a panic, and of he two you still have yet to convince me you are town. My vote is justified, hell, you even wanted my suspicion to become a concrete vote. And it did. Not fence sitting anymore champ, and you are basically spending all your time dwelling on small points rather than explaining who is scummiest.
Thank you for contributing!
I'm actively hunting, read my last couple of posts
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
Feelings about polski and che-
Che was extremely aggressive out of the gates. Che pushed to end rvs pretty hard.
Attacks polski for fence sitting. His game to me so far has been two types of post, the aggressive one(traditionally scummy) followed by the slow down/apology post(concerned scum?). His back and forth with polski gives me the impression one of the two is likely scum and on paper I see it as che, but I could be falling for exactly what polski wants me to. Polski's role so far has been to tell everyone how to be a good townie, which again could be a bold but effective cover. So for now I'm stuck with my "equal votes" plan for some answers.
Who is this directed at and in response to what? It's not clear to me.
Directed at Che, about Rhand.
So more defense of Rhand. Got it.
How do you see that as defense? Does ending RVS need defending?
Quote from Rhand »
It's not a written rule, but I've been told that 3 votes on one person is a quite standard procedure for ending RVS.
Quote from Che »
Yes I do. There are no rules to follow to win, try to catch out scum with their bad analysis and general worry of being caught. Not calling someone out for a third vote.
Quote from Len »
Well... you have to start somewhere, right? <.< And asking why I put a 3rd vote on him was quite legitimate.
How is that not defending you? Len randomly jumps in and tries to legitimize what you did. Plain and simple.
Liking that rule on breaking RVS Rhand. I hav learned something new today. Oh, that and the fact the RVS stage here is a pissing contest that hasn't given me much to go on.
Do you guys always follow the same format in every game? Cos the last two I looked at here is an RVS of a voting frenzy followed by paranoia at every post coming out of RVas.
And if I say RVS one more time in this post, I win a prize from Iso!
........ RVS
RVS means Random Voting Stage, so yes, we randomly vote until someone gets paranoia
Who got paranoia this game Rhand?
No one. It was a joking answer to a silly post.
Wrong answer. You did. 3 votes on you and "whoop guys let's end RVS!"
If it was a joking answer, it was unintentionally a damn good one. That is indeed how RVS works. Until someone gets paranoia. Che was absolutely correct when he said RVS had ended upon your post.
the only scummy thing that has stood out so far is three votes on the same person in RVS.
I'm sorry, but that's just not scummy at all. 3 votes in an RVS is extremely common, 4 isn't terribly rare, and I've even seen 5 a couple times. And that's only for 12 player games.
RVS is Random voting stage. There's nothing random about a 4th or 5th vote on someone. Do you have examples of that happening?
Yet we both know that nothing is truly random in RVS. There is always reasoning behind the votes, however silly, unless someone pulls a "roll a die and got a 3 so vote: [insert name here]". A more appropriate name for RVS would be Silly Voting Stage, or SVS.
There are tons of examples, just browse through some games' RVS sections. The ones that currently come to my mind are modfias, and I don't care to browse others at this time. Generally how someone racks up that many votes is when someone votes someone else with funny reasoning, and then others pile on with the same or similar reasoning. It is all in fun, and coincides with the more appropriate name of SVS.
I am voting Polski.
I unvoted generic 2 posts after I voted him
Why are you voting ikslop here? Your "fair enough" exchange seemed concluding to me, yet no unvote.
It was a good answer, but that doesn't make him town.
His nonsense about waiting for your questions and then not seeing the need to follow up on the answers reeks of scum.
And then, when pressured about that, he does ask a question.
I also wonder if it's a coincidence that he uses your questions to want answered while you pick up a chainsaw to defend him later on.
I fail to see that reeking of scum. Why do you feel that can't come from a town mindset?
How am I defending him? I'm questioning your play.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Self-aware as scum. Vote Che Guevara
The only thing I can see in Che's quoted post that could possibly be construed as self-awareness is the part where he remembered what he did.
Yeah, weakest attack yet if I'm understanding it correctly.
AWhat's wrong with asking Shark what he sees as self-awareness? BWhat you do is sling mud and then add that you might have been wrong about the slinging of said mud.
A) The question is implied in the statement.
B) "Slinging mud" is not used in the appropriate context here. That is when you make weak little attacks to make someone look bad. Such as what you, Rhand, are doing right here.
No, I'm calling him out on a terrible excuse for an attack and a vote, assuming I understand what he was indeed implying. It makes so little sense that I am not sure. You are grasping at straws.
I was waiting on them, past tense. Since then though I've been dealing with you and Che. The only real question I have to ask this.
[QUOTE=LenKenneth;/comments/10880691]1) 3 vote are quite much. It's something to start talking about, that's what I meant.
What's the significance of three RVS votes? They're not important. Unless you think they should be. Do you have any reason to think they should?
Obviously, I didn't find 3 votes very significant or I wouldn't have put my vote on someone who already had 2 RVS votes. But Rhand did find them significant and - as I said - I can accept it as a reason to start discussion.
Contradiction part 2.
Nope, no contradiction. The first question was about an action I performed after RVS was over (the unvoting, the feeling that 3 votes were too many on a player I had no information on - why on earth would I keep my RVS vote on anyone at all?). The second question was about an action I performed before RVS was over - giving Rhand his 3rd vote. And, obviously I didn't find the vote significant in RVS until Rhand said that the rule is that RVS is over with the 3rd vote, which made it significant in some way at least.
In the first quote you say that 3 votes on someone you have nothing against is too much. Implying it is significant.
In the second quote you say that you didn't find 3 votes very significant.
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
That doesn't make sense. The scum want the game to go fast. The Day is our strongest weapon. The faster the game, the shorter the Day, which means less discussion. It should be obvious how that benefits scum.
I think my thought process after the plan idea was "they don't want the game to go quickly because if they manage to prolong it, they can get more mafia kills."
I wasn't thinking it through very much. At all.
I'm liking my vote on you more and more. You are looking like flailing scum and are still not contributing thoughts to the other goings-on.
@Rhand: Thanks for hurting my chances of catching scum.
Due to my not seeing Mistshadow's response I take this back.
I'll answer his question now:
Quote from Mist »
Can you give me your full reasoning for voting me? In particular, what parts of my posts did you find scummy?
I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
iRebel attack Che for attacking Polski and being too aggressive #70-75 range. Note for later reference if any flip.
Mistshadow makes similar post, though I feel iRebel is more blunt about it. So Mistshadow is more town for it.
Len’s vote in RVS that Rhand promptly ended it feels town from posts afterwards. Genuinely trying to learn. #89 helped me in this.
Polski’s post I quoted earlier helps him go into my town pile.
Petard is definitely going to be hard to read. Mainly his posts have consisted of him trying to grasp the game (all fine and good, but it’s not helping me read him).
Rhand is basically being public mentor to all the newer players. Nothing yet seems malicious, but will keep an eye on. A town read for now.
And petard posts content after I scroll down. Very summary, nothing new, nor I think is scum (mainly coming from new player). (#105)
And generic follows with exactly what I see (#106).
Tom posts with a contradiction made by Len. Now looking and it feels like he’s backtracking, acting like going out of RVS is a scummy thing. I tend to disagree, mainly from a revisionist history standpoint. He’s a new player and is likely going to perceive his actions differently immediately following vs. later on (now that he knows when RVS ends).
#119: (Polski) I disagree with your assessment. Scum want town to make hasty decisions, so yes fast days can be scummy, but slow drawn out days can get a number of players fatigued and can lead to poor decisions, and even ones that lead to multiple mislynches. Yes day is our weapon, but scum don’t necessarily want the game to go fast. They want to lull discussion, and will do what it takes to do it. Basically, promote discussion and action, don’t make hasty decisions.
Petards vote (#120) needs better rationale than one player has 3 votes and the other has 2, so I’ll balance the votes.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Looking at the post again, it actually is ironic. He’s basically trying to keep his hands clean in the situation, yet dismissing the FoS for doing the same thing. That’s why I voted him.
(*)I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
(1)Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, (2)asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and (3)I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
(*) You expect me to react to joke votes?
(1) I believe "flailing" to apologize would be an incorrect description, I agreed that my attack felt forced and weak and I apologized for useless mud-slinging.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
Notes:
iRebel attack Che for attacking Polski and being too aggressive #70-75 range. Note for later reference if any flip.
Mistshadow makes similar post, though I feel iRebel is more blunt about it. So Mistshadow is more town for it.
Please explain why being "blunt" = more scummy.
Len’s vote in RVS that Rhand promptly ended it feels town from posts afterwards. Genuinely trying to learn. #89 helped me in this.
Please explain how trying to learn = townish.
Rhand is basically being public mentor to all the newer players. Nothing yet seems malicious, but will keep an eye on. A town read for now.
Why is Rhand a town read, and a 4/5 in your rating chart below? Because coaching?
Tom posts with a contradiction made by Len. Now looking and it feels like he’s backtracking, acting like going out of RVS is a scummy thing. I tend to disagree, mainly from a revisionist history standpoint. He’s a new player and is likely going to perceive his actions differently immediately following vs. later on (now that he knows when RVS ends).
I don't think going out of RVS is scummy at all. RVS ending as soon as possible = :thumbsup:. I don't know why you think that I think otherwise.
Your attempt at legitimizing Len's contraction feels off to me.
Petard #134: Nice catch.
Disagree. Even when including one's self as the town in that sentence, "they" is the only correct pronoun. Replacing it with "we" (or anything else) doesn't make any sense.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Looking at the post again, it actually is ironic. He’s basically trying to keep his hands clean in the situation, yet dismissing the FoS for doing the same thing. That’s why I voted him.
(*)I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
(1)Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, (2)asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and (3)I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
(*) You expect me to react to joke votes?
(1) I believe "flailing" to apologize would be an incorrect description, I agreed that my attack felt forced and weak and I apologized for useless mud-slinging.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
(*) I was hoping. It's not uncommon. It's probably more uncommon to simply ignore it. Read the RVS of this very game for reference.
(1) The fact that you know your attack was forced and weak is what is bothersome. Only scum make forced attacks. Forced basically means that you are just trying to get an attack out there without really having reason to attack.
(2) You asked the question fine, but the problem was that I never really answered it. And when I didn't, you didn't push the subject (point it out, ask me again, etc.), you just continued to defend yourself. That shows your motives; you are more concerned with yourself than you are with scum-hunting / getting your questions answered.
(3) Noob card - fearmongering combo.
---
As a side note, please understand that I'm not trying to make this game unpleasant for you. I just firmly believe you are scum. If you really are town, I know how it can feel to get knocked around right out of the gate in your first game (your mentor kindly showed me that :p). But also if you really are town, you need to start acting like it. Do some scum-hunting.
(*)I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
(1)Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, (2)asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and (3)I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
(*) You expect me to react to joke votes?
(1) I believe "flailing" to apologize would be an incorrect description, I agreed that my attack felt forced and weak and I apologized for useless mud-slinging.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
And, now you're in the town pile for point 3. Thanks. :D.
Notes:
iRebel attack Che for attacking Polski and being too aggressive #70-75 range. Note for later reference if any flip.
Mistshadow makes similar post, though I feel iRebel is more blunt about it. So Mistshadow is more town for it.
Please explain why being "blunt" = more scummy.
It doesn't feel like genuine inquisition of reads. It reads more like trying to actively dismiss the argument all together. It may just be me still working on reading intent vs. general play (as in, I don't know if iRebel is always this blunt vs. iRebel actively dismissing argument made by scumpartner)
Len’s vote in RVS that Rhand promptly ended it feels town from posts afterwards. Genuinely trying to learn. #89 helped me in this.
Please explain how trying to learn = townish.
Nothing in his posts appeared from a scum-mindset. It could be just genuine new player, but I feel it's coming from a newb-town mindset.
Rhand is basically being public mentor to all the newer players. Nothing yet seems malicious, but will keep an eye on. A town read for now.
Why is Rhand a town read, and a 4/5 in your rating chart below? Because coaching?
No malicious intent in his coaching, as well as he's still actively scumhunting and asking the right questions.
Tom posts with a contradiction made by Len. Now looking and it feels like he’s backtracking, acting like going out of RVS is a scummy thing. I tend to disagree, mainly from a revisionist history standpoint. He’s a new player and is likely going to perceive his actions differently immediately following vs. later on (now that he knows when RVS ends).
I don't think going out of RVS is scummy at all. RVS ending as soon as possible = :thumbsup:. I don't know why you think that I think otherwise.
Your attempt at legitimizing Len's contraction feels off to me.
For him being caught on the spot by Rhand, as a new player, would probably catch me off-guard too. I'd be worried (town/scum), of making the first mistake (leading to one reaction), then later learning the proper procedure, he may have a different reaction. It's kinda hard sometimes to remember your intentions after a while (especially with a long weekend, etc). I don't know why my explanation feels off, but you're entitled to it at this point.
Petard #134: Nice catch.
Disagree. Even when including one's self as the town in that sentence, "they" is the only correct pronoun. Replacing it with "we" (or anything else) doesn't make any sense.
Crap, yea, your right. Different context, the rationale in Petards post would be better. But yea, I cant find a better way to put it.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Looking at the post again, it actually is ironic. He’s basically trying to keep his hands clean in the situation, yet dismissing the FoS for doing the same thing. That’s why I voted him.
I didn't even notice that, good catch.
Why did you say he was being self-aware, then?
He's aware of his own standing and trying to clear his name before it is ever brought up. That's what I mean by self-aware.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
(*) I was hoping. It's not uncommon. It's probably more uncommon to simply ignore it. Read the RVS of this very game for reference.
(1) The fact that you know your attack was forced and weak is what is bothersome. Only scum make forced attacks. Forced basically means that you are just trying to get an attack out there without really having reason to attack.
(2) You asked the question fine, but the problem was that I never really answered it. And when I didn't, you didn't push the subject (point it out, ask me again, etc.), you just continued to defend yourself. That shows your motives; you are more concerned with yourself than you are with scum-hunting / getting your questions answered.
(3) Noob card - fearmongering combo.
---
As a side note, please understand that I'm not trying to make this game unpleasant for you. I just firmly believe you are scum. If you really are town, I know how it can feel to get knocked around right out of the gate in your first game (your mentor kindly showed me that :p). But also if you really are town, you need to start acting like it. Do some scum-hunting.
(1) I wasn't aware of the forcedness and weakness of the attack until you and Polski pointed it out for me.
Also, what is your definition of clear-cut scum hunting? What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting? (Just for future reference :P)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
And @all apologies for not posting as much the last day or so. Weekend was rather busy (woo borderlands 2 marathons!) and I got distracted with the other game I am in.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
(*)I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
(1)Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, (2)asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and (3)I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
(*) You expect me to react to joke votes?
(1) I believe "flailing" to apologize would be an incorrect description, I agreed that my attack felt forced and weak and I apologized for useless mud-slinging.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
And, now you're in the town pile for point 3. Thanks. :D.
Rhand is basically being public mentor to all the newer players. Nothing yet seems malicious, but will keep an eye on. A town read for now.
Why is Rhand a town read, and a 4/5 in your rating chart below? Because coaching?
No malicious intent in his coaching, as well as he's still actively scumhunting and asking the right questions.
Please explain what kind of coaching ever has malicious intent.
Tom posts with a contradiction made by Len. Now looking and it feels like he’s backtracking, acting like going out of RVS is a scummy thing. I tend to disagree, mainly from a revisionist history standpoint. He’s a new player and is likely going to perceive his actions differently immediately following vs. later on (now that he knows when RVS ends).
I don't think going out of RVS is scummy at all. RVS ending as soon as possible = :thumbsup:. I don't know why you think that I think otherwise.
Your attempt at legitimizing Len's contraction feels off to me.
For him being caught on the spot by Rhand, as a new player, would probably catch me off-guard too. I'd be worried (town/scum), of making the first mistake (leading to one reaction), then later learning the proper procedure, he may have a different reaction. It's kinda hard sometimes to remember your intentions after a while (especially with a long weekend, etc). I don't know why my explanation feels off, but you're entitled to it at this point.
It feels off because it is an extraordinarily convoluted and weak defense of another player that made a very clear contradiction.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Looking at the post again, it actually is ironic. He’s basically trying to keep his hands clean in the situation, yet dismissing the FoS for doing the same thing. That’s why I voted him.
I didn't even notice that, good catch.
Why did you say he was being self-aware, then?
He's aware of his own standing and trying to clear his name before it is ever brought up. That's what I mean by self-aware.
(*) I was hoping. It's not uncommon. It's probably more uncommon to simply ignore it. Read the RVS of this very game for reference.
(1) The fact that you know your attack was forced and weak is what is bothersome. Only scum make forced attacks. Forced basically means that you are just trying to get an attack out there without really having reason to attack.
(2) You asked the question fine, but the problem was that I never really answered it. And when I didn't, you didn't push the subject (point it out, ask me again, etc.), you just continued to defend yourself. That shows your motives; you are more concerned with yourself than you are with scum-hunting / getting your questions answered.
(3) Noob card - fearmongering combo.
---
As a side note, please understand that I'm not trying to make this game unpleasant for you. I just firmly believe you are scum. If you really are town, I know how it can feel to get knocked around right out of the gate in your first game (your mentor kindly showed me that :p). But also if you really are town, you need to start acting like it. Do some scum-hunting.
(1) I wasn't aware of the forcedness and weakness of the attack until you and Polski pointed it out for me.
(4)Also, what is your definition of clear-cut scum hunting? What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting? (Just for future reference :P)
1) Frankly I don't believe that, but it is irrelevant to the matter. The point is you admit to forcing an attack. Town don't force attacks ever. Including looking back and saying "yeah I forced that attack".
4) Why do you want to do the minimum? In answer to your question, it is about quality, not quantity. Scum-hunting is when you are legitimately trying to hunt for scum.
---
@iRebel: When do you expect you will be able to post more (good) content?
What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting?
I probably should have put more stress on this. This is quite obviously the mindset of scum. Wanting to know the minimum amount to get by and be considered town by the other players.
Everyone can start moving their votes to Mistshadow at any time now.
1) Frankly I don't believe that, but it is irrelevant to the matter. The point is you admit to forcing an attack. Town don't force attacks ever. Including looking back and saying "yeah I forced that attack".
4) Why do you want to do the minimum? In answer to your question, it is about quality, not quantity. Scum-hunting is when you are legitimately trying to hunt for scum.
1) Welp I think I just broke that stereotype, because I just forced an attack as town.
On another note, crap I broke the stereotype and now I'm going to get lynched by a party led by Tom for it.
4) I don't want to do the minimum; in fact, just the opposite. However, if I locate a clear-cut minimum then I'll soon after find the top-most point and then the equilibrium.
I probably should have put more stress on this. This is quite obviously the mindset of scum. Wanting to know the minimum amount to get by and be considered town by the other players.
Everyone can start moving their votes to Mistshadow at any time now.
What I've deducted from your statements is that apparently I've started to play town with a scum mindset. I wouldn't be very surprised if I've actually gone and done that, but still.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
That's how mafia works. When someone does something scummy, press for it. Why would I not want mafia to feel pressure? If town feels pressure they won't crack because they have nothing to hide.
suspiciously worded?
How else can I word it using proper english language? lol I was referring to a whole group of people, I referred to the scum as "they" just like I referred to the town as "they". Grasping at straws.
Feelings about polski and che-
Che was extremely aggressive out of the gates. Che pushed to end rvs pretty hard.
Attacks polski for fence sitting. His game to me so far has been two types of post, the aggressive one(traditionally scummy) followed by the slow down/apology post(concerned scum?). His back and forth with polski gives me the impression one of the two is likely scum and on paper I see it as che, but I could be falling for exactly what polski wants me to. Polski's role so far has been to tell everyone how to be a good townie, which again could be a bold but effective cover. So for now I'm stuck with my "equal votes" plan for some answers.
What are the questions that you seek the answers for?
Quote from Tom »
I think that not having anything to add doesn't make you scum, no.
that's not what he said. He said:
Unvote
Got ourselves a bit of action already, huh? This is going quickly. Let's make sure it doesn't go too quickly though.
I'm interested in hearing the answers to the questions put forth already.
IE; happy to sit back and watch others hunt. This is NOT actively hunting but actively lurking.
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Quote from you »
What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
---
@Che:
Sure, that could be considered actively lurking, and if he did that frequently I'd have a problem with it. As it stands I do not, as it could also be that he had nothing else to ask or say until he heard the answers to other questions. Have you never been in that position? I'm having trouble seeing how his post could only come from a scum mindset.
Just lost my entire post At least it wasn't terribly long.
On Mist's forced attack:
I do not believe it to actually be a forced attack, as set by the definition from Tom. I feel like it was a genuine, albeit poor, attempt to pressure me. Is asking a question and applying pressure not a town-motivated move? If she had made a claim or assertion about my role based on it, it would have been a different story.
However.. that doesn't make up for this
Quote from Mistshadow »
What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting?
That is just about the sketchiest question ever, and I'm having a hard time buying your explanation.
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
What reasoning do you think was not made? (Now I'm not saying some of my reasoning was poor, but if you're accusing me of not having reasoning, you've got to have some reasoning behind yourself.)
Oh, I'm not more concerned. To be perfectly honest, I'm genuinely concerned to find the scum. In fact, I'll go back and analyze everyone's posts when I get home from school and see if I can find anything.
I'm not surprised. Why? Because this always happens to me in these sort of games, and I usually switch mindsets halfway through the game, though I'm not entirely sure how I did it with this game. So yeah.
Who is this directed at and in response to what? It's not clear to me.
Directed at Che, about Rhand.
So more defense of Rhand. Got it.
How do you see that as defense? Does ending RVS need defending?
Quote from Rhand »
It's not a written rule, but I've been told that 3 votes on one person is a quite standard procedure for ending RVS.
Quote from Che »
Yes I do. There are no rules to follow to win, try to catch out scum with their bad analysis and general worry of being caught. Not calling someone out for a third vote.
Quote from Len »
Well... you have to start somewhere, right? <.< And asking why I put a 3rd vote on him was quite legitimate.
How is that not defending you? Len randomly jumps in and tries to legitimize what you did. Plain and simple.
It's not randomly. He was part of the topic. You're reading too much into this.
Liking that rule on breaking RVS Rhand. I hav learned something new today. Oh, that and the fact the RVS stage here is a pissing contest that hasn't given me much to go on.
Do you guys always follow the same format in every game? Cos the last two I looked at here is an RVS of a voting frenzy followed by paranoia at every post coming out of RVas.
And if I say RVS one more time in this post, I win a prize from Iso!
........ RVS
RVS means Random Voting Stage, so yes, we randomly vote until someone gets paranoia
Who got paranoia this game Rhand?
No one. It was a joking answer to a silly post.
Wrong answer. You did. 3 votes on you and "whoop guys let's end RVS!"
If it was a joking answer, it was unintentionally a damn good one. That is indeed how RVS works. Until someone gets paranoia. Che was absolutely correct when he said RVS had ended upon your post.
Paranoia is not the correct description of what I did there.
the only scummy thing that has stood out so far is three votes on the same person in RVS.
I'm sorry, but that's just not scummy at all. 3 votes in an RVS is extremely common, 4 isn't terribly rare, and I've even seen 5 a couple times. And that's only for 12 player games.
RVS is Random voting stage. There's nothing random about a 4th or 5th vote on someone. Do you have examples of that happening?
Yet we both know that nothing is truly random in RVS. There is always reasoning behind the votes, however silly, unless someone pulls a "roll a die and got a 3 so vote: [insert name here]". A more appropriate name for RVS would be Silly Voting Stage, or SVS.
There are tons of examples, just browse through some games' RVS sections. The ones that currently come to my mind are modfias, and I don't care to browse others at this time. Generally how someone racks up that many votes is when someone votes someone else with funny reasoning, and then others pile on with the same or similar reasoning. It is all in fun, and coincides with the more appropriate name of SVS.
Yeh ok, we could call it SVS. I saw someone else use the third vote to break RVS and found that to be a good and easy way to start the real game.
Got ourselves a bit of action already, huh? This is going quickly. Let's make sure it doesn't go too quickly though.
I'm interested in hearing the answers to the questions put forth already.
What do you mean by "too quickly"? Why are you so insistent that it goes at a set pace?
This attack is weak and feels forced. Mistshadow (can I call you MS?), what do you feel is scummy about being insistent on games going at a set pace?
I'm happy with my vote on you.
How does it feel forced? Why is it weak?
The emoticon and tone of the question aims to cast suspicion, when there is nothing actually suspicious.
It is suspicious: Polski is fearmongering for no good reason.
And even if you take away your own read of Polski: attacks are always meant to pressure and that is what Mist did.
I am voting Polski.
I unvoted generic 2 posts after I voted him
Why are you voting ikslop here? Your "fair enough" exchange seemed concluding to me, yet no unvote.
It was a good answer, but that doesn't make him town.
His nonsense about waiting for your questions and then not seeing the need to follow up on the answers reeks of scum.
And then, when pressured about that, he does ask a question.
I also wonder if it's a coincidence that he uses your questions to want answered while you pick up a chainsaw to defend him later on.
I fail to see that reeking of scum. Why do you feel that can't come from a town mindset?
How am I defending him? I'm questioning your play.
It's not a town mindset because it's not an investigative mindset. He relies on info that others generate and doesn't share his analysis with us. He doesn't bother asking the questions that pop up when he reads the info we generate unless pushed to do so.
You're defending him by attacking all players that are suspicious of him. It's chainsaw defense, trying to divert our attention away from Polski and towards defending ourselves.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Self-aware as scum. Vote Che Guevara
The only thing I can see in Che's quoted post that could possibly be construed as self-awareness is the part where he remembered what he did.
Yeah, weakest attack yet if I'm understanding it correctly.
AWhat's wrong with asking Shark what he sees as self-awareness? BWhat you do is sling mud and then add that you might have been wrong about the slinging of said mud.
A) The question is implied in the statement.
B) "Slinging mud" is not used in the appropriate context here. That is when you make weak little attacks to make someone look bad. Such as what you, Rhand, are doing right here.
No, I'm calling him out on a terrible excuse for an attack and a vote, assuming I understand what he was indeed implying. It makes so little sense that I am not sure. You are grasping at straws.
A) No, you answered the question that you should've asked Shark yourself.
B) Calling someone out on "the weakest attack yet" while you're aware that you might be misunderstanding him is slinging mud. It makes him look bad while you're not sure on your read. How else must i interpret "if I'm understanding it correctly" if it does not mean that you are not sure?
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
What reasoning do you think was not made? (Now I'm not saying some of my reasoning was poor, but if you're accusing me of not having reasoning, you've got to have some reasoning behind yourself.)
Wut? I'm not accusing you of anything there, just asking you what your reasoning was. If you already answered my question direct me to your answer please.
Who is this directed at and in response to what? It's not clear to me.
Directed at Che, about Rhand.
So more defense of Rhand. Got it.
How do you see that as defense? Does ending RVS need defending?
Quote from Rhand »
It's not a written rule, but I've been told that 3 votes on one person is a quite standard procedure for ending RVS.
Quote from Che »
Yes I do. There are no rules to follow to win, try to catch out scum with their bad analysis and general worry of being caught. Not calling someone out for a third vote.
Quote from Len »
Well... you have to start somewhere, right? <.< And asking why I put a 3rd vote on him was quite legitimate.
How is that not defending you? Len randomly jumps in and tries to legitimize what you did. Plain and simple.
It's not randomly. He was part of the topic. You're reading too much into this.
Sure, delete "randomly" from my summary of what happened. It changes nothing. You are playing with words.
Got ourselves a bit of action already, huh? This is going quickly. Let's make sure it doesn't go too quickly though.
I'm interested in hearing the answers to the questions put forth already.
What do you mean by "too quickly"? Why are you so insistent that it goes at a set pace?
This attack is weak and feels forced. Mistshadow (can I call you MS?), what do you feel is scummy about being insistent on games going at a set pace?
I'm happy with my vote on you.
How does it feel forced? Why is it weak?
The emoticon and tone of the question aims to cast suspicion, when there is nothing actually suspicious.
It is suspicious: Polski is fearmongering for no good reason.
And even if you take away your own read of Polski: attacks are always meant to pressure and that is what Mist did.
Fearmongering? Elaborate. Cocking my head sideways and squinting still makes it look like a stretch to call that fearmongering.
With your reasoning, all attacks are fine, because all attacks put pressure. No, at the core, Mist made a weak attack. Admittedly, too. It's scummy.
I am voting Polski.
I unvoted generic 2 posts after I voted him
Why are you voting ikslop here? Your "fair enough" exchange seemed concluding to me, yet no unvote.
It was a good answer, but that doesn't make him town.
His nonsense about waiting for your questions and then not seeing the need to follow up on the answers reeks of scum.
And then, when pressured about that, he does ask a question.
I also wonder if it's a coincidence that he uses your questions to want answered while you pick up a chainsaw to defend him later on.
I fail to see that reeking of scum. Why do you feel that can't come from a town mindset?
How am I defending him? I'm questioning your play.
It's not a town mindset because it's not an investigative mindset. He relies on info that others generate and doesn't share his analysis with us. He doesn't bother asking the questions that pop up when he reads the info we generate unless pushed to do so.
You're defending him by attacking all players that are suspicious of him. It's chainsaw defense, trying to divert our attention away from Polski and towards defending ourselves.
1) That's weak man, real weak. Like I said earlier, if he did that all game I'd have a problem. But not having anything to add until after certain questions are answered, right out of RVS? Let me ask you the question I asked Che, Rhand. Has there never been a time when you were town and didn't have anything to add, whether it was because certain questions needed to be answered first or otherwise?
2) I'm attacking all players that I feel are acting scummy. Stupidly weak attack on Polski included. Call it defending him if you want, but you're seeing ghosts.
I didn't vote him in RVS and a FoS is scummy when you can vote to add pressure instead of observing from the outside, keeping yourself intact.
Self-aware as scum. Vote Che Guevara
The only thing I can see in Che's quoted post that could possibly be construed as self-awareness is the part where he remembered what he did.
Yeah, weakest attack yet if I'm understanding it correctly.
AWhat's wrong with asking Shark what he sees as self-awareness? BWhat you do is sling mud and then add that you might have been wrong about the slinging of said mud.
A) The question is implied in the statement.
B) "Slinging mud" is not used in the appropriate context here. That is when you make weak little attacks to make someone look bad. Such as what you, Rhand, are doing right here.
No, I'm calling him out on a terrible excuse for an attack and a vote, assuming I understand what he was indeed implying. It makes so little sense that I am not sure. You are grasping at straws.
A) No, you answered the question that you should've asked Shark yourself.
B) Calling someone out on "the weakest attack yet" while you're aware that you might be misunderstanding him is slinging mud. It makes him look bad while you're not sure on your read. How else must i interpret "if I'm understanding it correctly" if it does not mean that you are not sure?
[/QUOTE]
A) The question of "am I understanding this correctly?" was implied. Same thing, stop twisting stuff.
B) That is not slinging mud at all. Slinging mud is taking little things that aren't truly indicative of a scum mindset and throwing it around to make someone look bad. Remember Iso Day 1 in our last game? Yeah, that.
Saying "I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but if I do, what you said is scummy and here is why" is not mudslinging nor scummy in and of itself. You are really grasping around at the straws this game Rhand.
Tom
Len
Generic
ikslop
Shark
petard
iRebel
Che
Rhand
Mist
Mod: prod MRHblue please
I'm not a fan of people trying to buddy up to me, even if that wasn't the intention of the post. That's why I said I liked Rhand, what I meant was I like his approach. Constant unwavering suspicion but the questions have not seemingly had any hidden agenda or undertone. He just seems to ask straight out.
I have a few I have less concerns about at this time but until we get a night phase or two under our belts (assuming I can live through a night phase or two ) I can't take anything for granted on what I have read so far.
Having said that Tom, until you produced that list I found you to be arguing your point pretty well.
I would fos to show a focus to my current main suspects but apparently doing that isn't allowed around here...
I'm not sure I understand this correctly. You think I'm less town because I think you are town, and you think I've ceased to argue my point well because I gave a quick T/S list to show my stance at this time in the game?
Not wishing to requote that ridiculously long post full of quotes within quotes Tom. So I will just directly address your question by first asking is this your first mafia game?
Because if not i will call your question to me a scum slip. Because you must be playing dumb.
But if you really are hard of thinking, lets break it all down for ya.
In mafia only the mafia team are likely to have any sort of insider info on who is what alignment. So nobody is trustworthy. With me so far?
Day 1 is full of unknowns to town players, so we only have what people say in posts to work with. Hope I ain't lost ya yet kiddo.
You have shown an endless need to deconstruct almost everything, which normally can be useful, especially on day 1. So that's where you scored a few pro town points. Still with me?
Then you did something I consider a bit if a mafia game red flag, you began to clear people as town. That might not have been your intention with the list, but I read that as a clear sign you are saying certain people are trustworthy to you... And this to me has been a mafia tactic I have seen in the past to get players on their side by buddying up to them and making them feel safe because someone dared to say they were trustworthy.
You lost your pro town points there and to then come back at me with naive questioning like i was somehow backwards for considering your list as a concern (bearing in mind I'm on it in green so could have just say back and let you pull this stunt) is quite telling.
In fact it was this telling... unvote, vote tom
What, so now I'm thinking you are mafia cos you asked me to explain something that was simple in the first place before I deconstructed it to the Nth degree?
Damn right I do.
Question. Love your post, but Im wondering what your opinion of me. I'm trying to find the town too (you were the first clear I made iirc). Is there a difference in our playstyles and how we go about things? I have more opinions on it but this is enough for now.
Also, more later when I'm on a computer
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Hey all, I've read through the thread pretty quickly, I might go back and read it again if I have time.
I'm pretty sure that I want to be voting Mist, but I'm going to take a look back at her to be sure. She came off really bad after that exchange with Tom.
Haven't seen any noteworthy cases other than that, Polski was just being new, Che is aggressive because that's his shtick and the self-conscious bit doesn't make sense to me; he was just correcting an error in reasoning (since he didn't vote Polski in rvs), I really can't see how he would react differently as town.
Then you did something I consider a bit if a mafia game red flag, you began to clear people as town. That might not have been your intention with the list, but I read that as a clear sign you are saying certain people are trustworthy to you... And this to me has been a mafia tactic I have seen in the past to get players on their side by buddying up to them and making them feel safe because someone dared to say they were trustworthy.
Town clear eachother all the time, because obviously they don't want to lynch other townies. In fact, you two are my strongest town reads atm, since you have a bunch of town mindset posts (like the first paragraph of 162), and Tom is both trying to get stuff done and I think he's right about Mist.
Town clear eachother all the time, because obviously they don't want to lynch other townies. In fact, you two are my strongest town reads atm, since you have a bunch of town mindset posts (like the first paragraph of 162), and Tom is both trying to get stuff done and I think he's right about Mist.
/Barn
Oh, and welcome to the game.
SharkFinnigan's post feels off. Why is Generic's opinion of you so important?
@Generic: I can see where you're coming from, but I think to assume it as a scumtell is going a bit far.
Hey all, I've read through the thread pretty quickly, I might go back and read it again if I have time.
I'm pretty sure that I want to be voting Mist, but I'm going to take a look back at her to be sure. She came off really bad after that exchange with Tom.
Aaaaand can you please state your reasons for wanting to vote me?
and Tom is both trying to get stuff done and I think he's right about Mist.
Blue is confirmed town or really strong feeling of town, Green is leaning town, Black is undecided, Orange is leaning scum, Red is strong feeling of scum. I confirmed/cleared no one as town (besides technically myself in jest), but I am currently under the impression that you and a few others are in fact town. Make sense?
You can call my questions naive all you want but I feel they were legitimate in that your post really made no sense to me.
Now, why do give me flak for posting a T/S list but none for Shark when he posted his (and put you as leaning town as well)?
@Polski:
Despite my disapproval at the people who made a what I view as a weak attack on you for somewhat similar reasons, I'd like to see some bigger posts from you. More content.
@ITF:
Hi there, and welcome. I'm Tom. I like your first post.
Despite my disapproval at the people who made a what I view as a weak attack on you for somewhat similar reasons, I'd like to see some bigger posts from you. More content.
This is understandable. I replaced into another game after this one started, and I think I bit off a bit more than I can chew. I'll do my best to provide more substantial content and be more active in general.
I just look at things differently to you on this site it seems on day 1. Because even when I read a person as town (I have a few in mind already) I see absolutely no reason to declare it. Where is the gain? To somehow hope they see me as town too because I think they are? That would only be relevant to a mafia player, because I expect to be seen as town by my own actions in game.
Yes, tis great to know my efforts in finding mafia is showing my alignment in the process, but I really do hate hearing 'generic is town' like this is some sort of groundbreaker in the case. I already know this after all, give me someone you suspect instead
I posted my T/S list to keep my thoughts straight, though there are several reasons to call someone town or leaning town.
If all T/S lists are scummy to you, you are going to have a rough time with Mafia, as they are a frequent part of the game.
Despite my disapproval at the people who made a what I view as a weak attack on you for somewhat similar reasons, I'd like to see some bigger posts from you. More content.
pfldabrtfldabuldurt
Let's try that again and make more sense / use proper English:
Despite my disapproval of the weak attacks on you for "attempting to get around posting content" or however the attackers wish to word it, I would like to see you making bigger posts with more (good) content and providing thoughts about all the stuff going on.
Despite my disapproval at the people who made a what I view as a weak attack on you for somewhat similar reasons, I'd like to see some bigger posts from you. More content.
This is understandable. I replaced into another game after this one started, and I think I bit off a bit more than I can chew. I'll do my best to provide more substantial content and be more active in general.
Can you give us a time that we can expect you to provide more content by?
That doesn't make sense. The scum want the game to go fast. The Day is our strongest weapon. The faster the game, the shorter the Day, which means less discussion. It should be obvious how that benefits scum.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
I think my thought process after the plan idea was "they don't want the game to go quickly because if they manage to prolong it, they can get more mafia kills."
I wasn't thinking it through very much. At all.
about reverberate
Basically If you see this word you don't need to read the rest of the post.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
Could you please provide quotes and in your own words explain why polski is scummy and why I am scummy?
I ask this mainly because you are the third vote with weak reasoning.
Who is this directed at? Me?
How do you see that as defense? Does ending RVS need defending?
Do you think avoiding to generate content isn't a scumtell then?
No one. It was a joking answer to a silly post.
RVS is Random voting stage. There's nothing random about a 4th or 5th vote on someone. Do you have examples of that happening?
How does it feel forced? Why is it weak?
It was a good answer, but that doesn't make him town.
His nonsense about waiting for your questions and then not seeing the need to follow up on the answers reeks of scum.
And then, when pressured about that, he does ask a question.
I also wonder if it's a coincidence that he uses your questions to want answered while you pick up a chainsaw to defend him later on.
What's wrong with asking Shark what he sees as self-awareness?
What you do is sling mud and then add that you might have been wrong about the slinging of said mud.
It's how Wessel linked me to Iso as scum in Unseen University.
It happens a lot and is always worth looking into. Especially when newer players do it.
That is not an answer to his question either.
Thank you for contributing!
I'm actively hunting, read my last couple of posts
suspiciously worded?
about reverberate
Basically If you see this word you don't need to read the rest of the post.
Che was extremely aggressive out of the gates. Che pushed to end rvs pretty hard.
Attacks polski for fence sitting. His game to me so far has been two types of post, the aggressive one(traditionally scummy) followed by the slow down/apology post(concerned scum?). His back and forth with polski gives me the impression one of the two is likely scum and on paper I see it as che, but I could be falling for exactly what polski wants me to. Polski's role so far has been to tell everyone how to be a good townie, which again could be a bold but effective cover. So for now I'm stuck with my "equal votes" plan for some answers.
about reverberate
Basically If you see this word you don't need to read the rest of the post.
How is that not defending you? Len randomly jumps in and tries to legitimize what you did. Plain and simple.
I think that not having anything to add doesn't make you scum, no.
Wrong answer. You did. 3 votes on you and "whoop guys let's end RVS!"
If it was a joking answer, it was unintentionally a damn good one. That is indeed how RVS works. Until someone gets paranoia. Che was absolutely correct when he said RVS had ended upon your post.
Yet we both know that nothing is truly random in RVS. There is always reasoning behind the votes, however silly, unless someone pulls a "roll a die and got a 3 so vote: [insert name here]". A more appropriate name for RVS would be Silly Voting Stage, or SVS.
There are tons of examples, just browse through some games' RVS sections. The ones that currently come to my mind are modfias, and I don't care to browse others at this time. Generally how someone racks up that many votes is when someone votes someone else with funny reasoning, and then others pile on with the same or similar reasoning. It is all in fun, and coincides with the more appropriate name of SVS.
The emoticon and tone of the question aims to cast suspicion, when there is nothing actually suspicious.
I fail to see that reeking of scum. Why do you feel that can't come from a town mindset?
How am I defending him? I'm questioning your play.
A) The question is implied in the statement.
B) "Slinging mud" is not used in the appropriate context here. That is when you make weak little attacks to make someone look bad. Such as what you, Rhand, are doing right here.
No, I'm calling him out on a terrible excuse for an attack and a vote, assuming I understand what he was indeed implying. It makes so little sense that I am not sure. You are grasping at straws.
Thanks for hurting my chances of catching scum.
In the first quote you say that 3 votes on someone you have nothing against is too much. Implying it is significant.
In the second quote you say that you didn't find 3 votes very significant.
What am I missing?
No
I'm liking my vote on you more and more. You are looking like flailing scum and are still not contributing thoughts to the other goings-on.
Due to my not seeing Mistshadow's response I take this back.
I'll answer his question now:
I first voted you in RVS, wanting a reaction. Then you didn't show up for a while, and when you did, you didn't impress me. You made your forced weak attack.
Now you are flailing and trying to apologize yourself back off the radar, without contributing much at all, asking questions without the appropriate mindset to seek the answers, etc., and I've got a good feeling about you being scum.
Notes:
- Generic is town from posts #61 and #63, and #70.
- iRebel attack Che for attacking Polski and being too aggressive #70-75 range. Note for later reference if any flip.
- Mistshadow makes similar post, though I feel iRebel is more blunt about it. So Mistshadow is more town for it.
- Len’s vote in RVS that Rhand promptly ended it feels town from posts afterwards. Genuinely trying to learn. #89 helped me in this.
- Polski’s post I quoted earlier helps him go into my town pile.
- Petard is definitely going to be hard to read. Mainly his posts have consisted of him trying to grasp the game (all fine and good, but it’s not helping me read him).
- Rhand is basically being public mentor to all the newer players. Nothing yet seems malicious, but will keep an eye on. A town read for now.
- And petard posts content after I scroll down. Very summary, nothing new, nor I think is scum (mainly coming from new player). (#105)
- And generic follows with exactly what I see (#106).
- Tom posts with a contradiction made by Len. Now looking and it feels like he’s backtracking, acting like going out of RVS is a scummy thing. I tend to disagree, mainly from a revisionist history standpoint. He’s a new player and is likely going to perceive his actions differently immediately following vs. later on (now that he knows when RVS ends).
- #119: (Polski) I disagree with your assessment. Scum want town to make hasty decisions, so yes fast days can be scummy, but slow drawn out days can get a number of players fatigued and can lead to poor decisions, and even ones that lead to multiple mislynches. Yes day is our weapon, but scum don’t necessarily want the game to go fast. They want to lull discussion, and will do what it takes to do it. Basically, promote discussion and action, don’t make hasty decisions.
- Petards vote (#120) needs better rationale than one player has 3 votes and the other has 2, so I’ll balance the votes.
- Polski looks town in #121.
- Petard #134: Nice catch.
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@Tom:
Looking at the post again, it actually is ironic. He’s basically trying to keep his hands clean in the situation, yet dismissing the FoS for doing the same thing. That’s why I voted him.
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Town/Scum List (5 = confirmed town, 0 = confirmed scum, 2 is null).
:rate4.5:Generic
:rate4:Rhand
:rate4:petard
:rate4:Polski
:rate2.5:LenKenneth
:rate2.5:Tom
:rate2:MRHBlue
:rate2:Mistshadow
:rate2:22bebo
:rate1.5:Che Guevara
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
(*) You expect me to react to joke votes?
(1) I believe "flailing" to apologize would be an incorrect description, I agreed that my attack felt forced and weak and I apologized for useless mud-slinging.
(2) I'm sorry I'm a new player and haven't yet learned a proper way to ask questions in Mafia, maybe try the experienced player section if you want to list that as a scum tell.
(3) I'm not at all going to like playing the newb card I'm playing right now, but congratulations for translating inexperience as scummyness. I'm sure you'll feel mighty good about yourself when I flip town.
Please explain why being "blunt" = more scummy.
Please explain how trying to learn = townish.
Why is Rhand a town read, and a 4/5 in your rating chart below? Because coaching?
I don't think going out of RVS is scummy at all. RVS ending as soon as possible = :thumbsup:. I don't know why you think that I think otherwise.
Your attempt at legitimizing Len's contraction feels off to me.
Disagree. Even when including one's self as the town in that sentence, "they" is the only correct pronoun. Replacing it with "we" (or anything else) doesn't make any sense.
Why did you say he was being self-aware, then?
(*) I was hoping. It's not uncommon. It's probably more uncommon to simply ignore it. Read the RVS of this very game for reference.
(1) The fact that you know your attack was forced and weak is what is bothersome. Only scum make forced attacks. Forced basically means that you are just trying to get an attack out there without really having reason to attack.
(2) You asked the question fine, but the problem was that I never really answered it. And when I didn't, you didn't push the subject (point it out, ask me again, etc.), you just continued to defend yourself. That shows your motives; you are more concerned with yourself than you are with scum-hunting / getting your questions answered.
(3) Noob card - fearmongering combo.
---
As a side note, please understand that I'm not trying to make this game unpleasant for you. I just firmly believe you are scum. If you really are town, I know how it can feel to get knocked around right out of the gate in your first game (your mentor kindly showed me that :p). But also if you really are town, you need to start acting like it. Do some scum-hunting.
And, now you're in the town pile for point 3. Thanks. :D.
PEDIT:
It doesn't feel like genuine inquisition of reads. It reads more like trying to actively dismiss the argument all together. It may just be me still working on reading intent vs. general play (as in, I don't know if iRebel is always this blunt vs. iRebel actively dismissing argument made by scumpartner)
Nothing in his posts appeared from a scum-mindset. It could be just genuine new player, but I feel it's coming from a newb-town mindset.
No malicious intent in his coaching, as well as he's still actively scumhunting and asking the right questions.
For him being caught on the spot by Rhand, as a new player, would probably catch me off-guard too. I'd be worried (town/scum), of making the first mistake (leading to one reaction), then later learning the proper procedure, he may have a different reaction. It's kinda hard sometimes to remember your intentions after a while (especially with a long weekend, etc). I don't know why my explanation feels off, but you're entitled to it at this point.
Crap, yea, your right. Different context, the rationale in Petards post would be better. But yea, I cant find a better way to put it.
He's aware of his own standing and trying to clear his name before it is ever brought up. That's what I mean by self-aware.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
(1) I wasn't aware of the forcedness and weakness of the attack until you and Polski pointed it out for me.
Also, what is your definition of clear-cut scum hunting? What is the minimum that you believe could be considered scum hunting? (Just for future reference :P)
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Please explain what kind of coaching ever has malicious intent.
It feels off because it is an extraordinarily convoluted and weak defense of another player that made a very clear contradiction.
Fair, I misunderstood then.
1) Frankly I don't believe that, but it is irrelevant to the matter. The point is you admit to forcing an attack. Town don't force attacks ever. Including looking back and saying "yeah I forced that attack".
4) Why do you want to do the minimum? In answer to your question, it is about quality, not quantity. Scum-hunting is when you are legitimately trying to hunt for scum.
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@iRebel: When do you expect you will be able to post more (good) content?
I probably should have put more stress on this. This is quite obviously the mindset of scum. Wanting to know the minimum amount to get by and be considered town by the other players.
Everyone can start moving their votes to Mistshadow at any time now.
1) Welp I think I just broke that stereotype, because I just forced an attack as town.
On another note, crap I broke the stereotype and now I'm going to get lynched by a party led by Tom for it.
4) I don't want to do the minimum; in fact, just the opposite. However, if I locate a clear-cut minimum then I'll soon after find the top-most point and then the equilibrium.
What I've deducted from your statements is that apparently I've started to play town with a scum mindset. I wouldn't be very surprised if I've actually gone and done that, but still.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
How else can I word it using proper english language? lol I was referring to a whole group of people, I referred to the scum as "they" just like I referred to the town as "they". Grasping at straws.
What are the questions that you seek the answers for?
that's not what he said. He said:
IE; happy to sit back and watch others hunt. This is NOT actively hunting but actively lurking.
Again, forcing is making an attack without good reasoning just to make it. Just to cast suspicion on someone, or look like you are helping without really helping. What motive/reason do you have for doing that as town?
Why are you more concerned about us considering you as someone that is scum-hunting than actually helping the town to scum-hunt?
Why would you not be surprised to be playing with a scum mindset as town? Mindset indicates goals, and the goals of town and scum are completely opposite.
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@Che:
Sure, that could be considered actively lurking, and if he did that frequently I'd have a problem with it. As it stands I do not, as it could also be that he had nothing else to ask or say until he heard the answers to other questions. Have you never been in that position? I'm having trouble seeing how his post could only come from a scum mindset.
Tom
Len
Generic
ikslop
Shark
petard
iRebel
Che
Rhand
Mist
Mod: prod MRHblue please
On Mist's forced attack:
I do not believe it to actually be a forced attack, as set by the definition from Tom. I feel like it was a genuine, albeit poor, attempt to pressure me. Is asking a question and applying pressure not a town-motivated move? If she had made a claim or assertion about my role based on it, it would have been a different story.
However.. that doesn't make up for this
That is just about the sketchiest question ever, and I'm having a hard time buying your explanation.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
MRHblue posted yesterday, so no prod needed. Gonna see a replacement for 22bebo though.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
What reasoning do you think was not made? (Now I'm not saying some of my reasoning was poor, but if you're accusing me of not having reasoning, you've got to have some reasoning behind yourself.)
Oh, I'm not more concerned. To be perfectly honest, I'm genuinely concerned to find the scum. In fact, I'll go back and analyze everyone's posts when I get home from school and see if I can find anything.
I'm not surprised. Why? Because this always happens to me in these sort of games, and I usually switch mindsets halfway through the game, though I'm not entirely sure how I did it with this game. So yeah.
It's not randomly. He was part of the topic. You're reading too much into this.
Let's agree to disagree here. Che's wording is bad, but I agree with what he saw in Polski's post.
Paranoia is not the correct description of what I did there.
Yeh ok, we could call it SVS. I saw someone else use the third vote to break RVS and found that to be a good and easy way to start the real game.
It is suspicious: Polski is fearmongering for no good reason.
And even if you take away your own read of Polski: attacks are always meant to pressure and that is what Mist did.
It's not a town mindset because it's not an investigative mindset. He relies on info that others generate and doesn't share his analysis with us. He doesn't bother asking the questions that pop up when he reads the info we generate unless pushed to do so.
You're defending him by attacking all players that are suspicious of him. It's chainsaw defense, trying to divert our attention away from Polski and towards defending ourselves.
A) No, you answered the question that you should've asked Shark yourself.
B) Calling someone out on "the weakest attack yet" while you're aware that you might be misunderstanding him is slinging mud. It makes him look bad while you're not sure on your read. How else must i interpret "if I'm understanding it correctly" if it does not mean that you are not sure?
@Tom on my MistShadow quote: I'd say similar as town with the same attitude. It's a town mindset.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Oops, didn't see that. My bad.
Wut? I'm not accusing you of anything there, just asking you what your reasoning was. If you already answered my question direct me to your answer please.
Sure, delete "randomly" from my summary of what happened. It changes nothing. You are playing with words.
Fearmongering? Elaborate. Cocking my head sideways and squinting still makes it look like a stretch to call that fearmongering.
With your reasoning, all attacks are fine, because all attacks put pressure. No, at the core, Mist made a weak attack. Admittedly, too. It's scummy.
1) That's weak man, real weak. Like I said earlier, if he did that all game I'd have a problem. But not having anything to add until after certain questions are answered, right out of RVS? Let me ask you the question I asked Che, Rhand. Has there never been a time when you were town and didn't have anything to add, whether it was because certain questions needed to be answered first or otherwise?
2) I'm attacking all players that I feel are acting scummy. Stupidly weak attack on Polski included. Call it defending him if you want, but you're seeing ghosts.
[/QUOTE]
A) The question of "am I understanding this correctly?" was implied. Same thing, stop twisting stuff.
B) That is not slinging mud at all. Slinging mud is taking little things that aren't truly indicative of a scum mindset and throwing it around to make someone look bad. Remember Iso Day 1 in our last game? Yeah, that.
Saying "I'm not sure I understand you correctly, but if I do, what you said is scummy and here is why" is not mudslinging nor scummy in and of itself. You are really grasping around at the straws this game Rhand.
Heh, I disagree. I've seen plenty of scum fearmonger like that.
I'm not sure I understand this correctly. You think I'm less town because I think you are town, and you think I've ceased to argue my point well because I gave a quick T/S list to show my stance at this time in the game?
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Question. Love your post, but Im wondering what your opinion of me. I'm trying to find the town too (you were the first clear I made iirc). Is there a difference in our playstyles and how we go about things? I have more opinions on it but this is enough for now.
Also, more later when I'm on a computer
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I'm pretty sure that I want to be voting Mist, but I'm going to take a look back at her to be sure. She came off really bad after that exchange with Tom.
Haven't seen any noteworthy cases other than that, Polski was just being new, Che is aggressive because that's his shtick and the self-conscious bit doesn't make sense to me; he was just correcting an error in reasoning (since he didn't vote Polski in rvs), I really can't see how he would react differently as town.
Town clear eachother all the time, because obviously they don't want to lynch other townies. In fact, you two are my strongest town reads atm, since you have a bunch of town mindset posts (like the first paragraph of 162), and Tom is both trying to get stuff done and I think he's right about Mist.
/Barn
Oh, and welcome to the game.
SharkFinnigan's post feels off. Why is Generic's opinion of you so important?
@Generic: I can see where you're coming from, but I think to assume it as a scumtell is going a bit far.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
Aaaaand can you please state your reasons for wanting to vote me?
Tom praise. Tom praise. Tom praise everywhere.
You should respond to my post.
Also, Tom should always be praised
@Generic:
Blue is confirmed town or really strong feeling of town, Green is leaning town, Black is undecided, Orange is leaning scum, Red is strong feeling of scum. I confirmed/cleared no one as town (besides technically myself in jest), but I am currently under the impression that you and a few others are in fact town. Make sense?
You can call my questions naive all you want but I feel they were legitimate in that your post really made no sense to me.
Now, why do give me flak for posting a T/S list but none for Shark when he posted his (and put you as leaning town as well)?
@Polski:
Despite my disapproval at the people who made a what I view as a weak attack on you for somewhat similar reasons, I'd like to see some bigger posts from you. More content.
@ITF:
Hi there, and welcome. I'm Tom. I like your first post.
This is understandable. I replaced into another game after this one started, and I think I bit off a bit more than I can chew. I'll do my best to provide more substantial content and be more active in general.
Legacy
WW Death and Taxes WW
Modern
WBMartyr-Proc BW
I posted my T/S list to keep my thoughts straight, though there are several reasons to call someone town or leaning town.
If all T/S lists are scummy to you, you are going to have a rough time with Mafia, as they are a frequent part of the game.
pfldabrtfldabuldurt
Let's try that again and make more sense / use proper English:
Despite my disapproval of the weak attacks on you for "attempting to get around posting content" or however the attackers wish to word it, I would like to see you making bigger posts with more (good) content and providing thoughts about all the stuff going on.
Can you give us a time that we can expect you to provide more content by?