Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Hi guys, first thing I want to do now is to claim. I claim town. I also want to abstain from all discussion D1 because I dislike D1's, but I will give my vote to the biggest wagon from time to time for the purpose of advancing the game.
Wake me up D2 when we will have some bodies to analyse.
Hi guys, first thing I want to do now is to claim. I claim town. I also want to abstain from all discussion D1 because I dislike D1's, but I will give my vote to the biggest wagon from time to time for the purpose of advancing the game.
Wake me up D2 when we will have some bodies to analyse.
K cool this will be easy.
unvote: vote drey
The Infamous BUSSING
I just realized I completely misinterpreted this. As someone who is unfamiliar with Seasons, this reads like DRey made the exact same post in Seasons and kpaca responded the same way, like an inside joke. I clicked on the quote links and was still in this thread.
Now that I understand this correctly, I have to say there aren't enough similarities to make this a strong argument. kpaca's been aloof so far, while the Seasons quotes make him seem far more serious. The similarities just aren't there for a meta argument.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
Soooo,
Because hes using meta as a reason to lynch hes scummy?
Or because hes using it to apply pressure to people hes scummy?
I fail to see how this is scummy. Scummy behavior is using weak arguments to typically lynch a person or vote a person.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
Too add to this.
Adding an aggression clause does not equal scummy.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
Soooo,
Because hes using meta as a reason to lynch hes scummy?
Or because hes using it to apply pressure to people hes scummy?
I fail to see how this is scummy. Scummy behavior is using weak arguments to typically lynch a person or vote a person.
I'm more focused on Xyre calling kpaca scum based on his vote than I am Xyre calling DRey scum for his nonsense post. Saying "kpaca voted DRey therefore bussing" is a weak argument.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
But then your point is "he's done this as town in the past, so he must be doing it as scum now", which is all assumption, right?
As for the bussing point, I'll say it again: I want DRey lynched first either way. If he's town, then obviously kpaca wasn't bussing and I'll reassess.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
But then your point is "he's done this as town in the past, so he must be doing it as scum now", which is all assumption, right?
As for the bussing point, I'll say it again: I want DRey lynched first either way. If he's town, then obviously kpaca wasn't bussing and I'll reassess.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying "Xyre making meta arguments= scummy". I'm saying "The meta argument Xyre is making here= scummy".
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@DRey: You say you're so against Day 1's, but don't you agree that our banter D1 in Haruhi Suzumiya was perhaps the most important thing happening that game?
Nope, why do you think so? Are you this egocentric?
As for DRey... I've never played with him before, but I see absolutely nothing of substance there. Can someone remind me why RVS is over? Or are y'all just assuming he's being serious?
Unvote.
DRey, you really are serious, aren't you? What makes you think we'll let you get away with putting nothing into this game?
If you're town, naked votes and no content hurt the team. If you're scum, no content makes it impossible to catch you. I can't believe you'd take a chance like this as town when both outcomes (your lynch or no content) hurt the town, so I suppose that means you must be scum. Vote DRey.
On the first post you assumed there was nothing of substance, meaning you haven't found it scummy. Then you reversed your stance, misrepped me and arrived at the ridiculous conclusion that "he's being anti-town therefore he's scum". Do you really believe this? Can you say with a straight face I'm being anti-town just because of my two posts, one of them being a naked vote? I also noticed you managed to completely avoid talking about scumnite, what do you think about him?
The claim was useless, whether it was true or not. I can't make a call on that either way, but I'm leaning town on the post as a whole simply because its ending RVS. Scum typically want to do the opposite of what DRey did.
Waaat?! in your first post it was noticeable you were trying to put the spotlight onto me in an subtle underhanded way(and that’s why voted you). And even with zero explanation from me, you are now saying I'm probably town because of what "I did"? Holy backpedal batman.
In that duplicate quote of DRey from Seasons, was he scum? Do you think he'd do the same thing again, as scum?
Heh, so you were so attentive to Xyre point you didn't even notice I was never quoted there? Why aren't you paying attention Zion? Maybe that's because you aren't really interested in anyone alignment, maybe you already know all of them.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Yeah, that's because you don't know Xyre modus operandi correct? I mean you never played a game with him before right?
BTW what's your read on Zion?
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
You can't be serious, so when a player famous for doing X as town does it in a game he's scum because he's playing around his meta? Are you aware of the sheer absurdity of this? If meta is certainly not the end of it all, anti-meta is much less so. You are effectively repeating WOD's defense in Atagan "Yeah I usually do this as scum, but this time I'm trying to change my townmeta by also doing it as town". I agree we have little so far to say "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's town" but saying "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's scum" is incredibly disingenuous.
As for the bussing point, I'll say it again: I want DRey lynched first either way. If he's town, then obviously kpaca wasn't bussing and I'll reassess.
Explain the bolded.
More votes on Zion, caught scum is caught.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Yeah, that's because you don't know Xyre modus operandi correct? I mean you never played a game with him before right?
BTW what's your read on Zion?
Will get to Xyre in a moment.
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
You can't be serious, so when a player famous for doing X as town does it in a game he's scum because he's playing around his meta? Are you aware of the sheer absurdity of this? If meta is certainly not the end of it all, anti-meta is much less so. You are effectively repeating WOD's defense in Atagan "Yeah I usually do this as scum, but this time I'm trying to change my townmeta by also doing it as town". I agree we have little so far to say "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's town" but saying "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's scum" is incredibly disingenuous.
I didn't realize "null tell" meant "scum".
Xyre making meta arguments, as I've already ****ing explained, is a null tell. If he's scum, he'll want to look town and will try to emulate his town play. Any meta case Xyre makes therefore could be from any alignment. Which reminds me, btw, that Xyre wasn't actually town in Ataghan which I think neatly proves my point.
Which means you've got to rely on the strength of those specific meta arguments to read Xyre. And as I've already said, I think the one Xyre is using on kpaca is nonsense.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
As for DRey... I've never played with him before, but I see absolutely nothing of substance there. Can someone remind me why RVS is over? Or are y'all just assuming he's being serious?
Unvote.
DRey, you really are serious, aren't you? What makes you think we'll let you get away with putting nothing into this game?
If you're town, naked votes and no content hurt the team. If you're scum, no content makes it impossible to catch you. I can't believe you'd take a chance like this as town when both outcomes (your lynch or no content) hurt the town, so I suppose that means you must be scum. Vote DRey.
On the first post you assumed there was nothing of substance, meaning you haven't found it scummy. Then you reversed your stance, misrepped me and arrived at the ridiculous conclusion that "he's being anti-town therefore he's scum". Do you really believe this? Can you say with a straight face I'm being anti-town just because of my two posts, one of them being a naked vote? I also noticed you managed to completely avoid talking about scumnite, what do you think about him?
Q: What changed? A: You posted a naked vote. That's when I assumed you were actually being serious with your first post instead of just trolling for reactions. Based on your latest post you obviously weren't being serious, hence my unvote. You're experienced enough to know when you're being anti-town, though, so stay in shape, eh?
On Zionite, Wessel's points to kick it off were fine, but it's early enough in the game that I'm not interested in chasing down a lynch. One of the people on his wagon is still there from an RVS vote even (CropCircles). I'm content to watch for now since he's being grilled by enough players that his wagon will continue for a while at least with or without me. Why so insistent on drumming up votes?
Hey Zionite, mind explaining the vote on CropCircles (for what appears to be voting for you)?
Thanks for the breakdown.
I'm analyzing the first wagon of the game since it's the only thing going on. I know I'm town, so I have a unique perspective no one else has at this point. I'm also confident I will not be today's lynch.
Che's vote on me was random, and he later cited reasons for leaving it there. This effort is a town tell.
Wessel's vote was not random and did not have reasons attached. When called out, reasons were given. Town tell.
CropCircles' vote masquerades as a random vote despite RVS being over, and even acknowledges this fact. No reasons given, and the 3rd vote on a single target in a mini. Even if it were RVS, that's an indication of scum opportunism with no interest in scum hunting.
DRey's vote does not cite reasons and ignores the call out for it. I suspect it was a knee-jerk reaction to his first post catching interest. His first post is a town tell for ending RVS, and his vote is a town tell for following through on his own setup. He's clearly scum hunting.
The claim was useless, whether it was true or not. I can't make a call on that either way, but I'm leaning town on the post as a whole simply because its ending RVS. Scum typically want to do the opposite of what DRey did.
Waaat?! in your first post it was noticeable you were trying to put the spotlight onto me in an subtle underhanded way(and that’s why voted you). And even with zero explanation from me, you are now saying I'm probably town because of what "I did"? Holy backpedal batman.
First of all, there is no way to "subtly" throw a spotlight on anyone to end RVS. I was very deliberate in my response and meant for it to draw a reaction, which is why I questioned you. Second, I've never said you were scum, so there's no way to backpedal when I've always maintained that my read of you is leaning town. Town can present useless claims too, especially when they are trying to catch scum.
In that duplicate quote of DRey from Seasons, was he scum? Do you think he'd do the same thing again, as scum?
Heh, so you were so attentive to Xyre point you didn't even notice I was never quoted there? Why aren't you paying attention Zion? Maybe that's because you aren't really interested in anyone alignment, maybe you already know all of them.
You were quoted, but I misunderstood the context. This is a total null point, and I do not think your insinuation here is justified in the slightest. If I was so unconcerned with paying attention to the game, I would have completely ignored your first post and voted someone for a ridiculous reason, refusing to move the game forward.
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
This reads as a scum statement because it does not come packaged with any particular points of DRey's Caex finds appealing. It's an opportunistic reservation to the right to vote Zionite later.
I find DRey's case on you good enough to vote but that'd put you in claim range when you've still got RVS votes on you. That's really not a fair thing to force someone to claim when some of the votes on them aren't actually serious.
I looked back at your posts as well, and saw stuff I didn't like. If you want specifics: The part where you said DRey's "RVS ending post" is fake and fluff and all that, but when pressed decide he's town.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I find DRey's case on you good enough to vote but that'd put you in claim range when you've still got RVS votes on you. That's really not a fair thing to force someone to claim when some of the votes on them aren't actually serious.
I looked back at your posts as well, and saw stuff I didn't like. If you want specifics: The part where you said DRey's "RVS ending post" is fake and fluff and all that, but when pressed decide he's town.
Can you further define "stuff"?
Did you read my response to DRey mentioning this same thing? What is your reaction to that?
Xyre's hard for me to read, but I have no reason to call him scum at this juncture. Stardust is following his reads and scum hunting, so I'm leaning town on him.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Yep. But that's pretty much a null tell. If you're aware of your meta, you can play around it.
Xyre is being pretty aggressive with the meta arguments right out of the gate. That's the only thing that has really caught my attention so far. The stuff about kpaca bussing is particularly weak.
Unvote Vote Xyre
So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
Soooo,
Because hes using meta as a reason to lynch hes scummy?
Or because hes using it to apply pressure to people hes scummy?
I fail to see how this is scummy. Scummy behavior is using weak arguments to typically lynch a person or vote a person.
I'm more focused on Xyre calling kpaca scum based on his vote than I am Xyre calling DRey scum for his nonsense post. Saying "kpaca voted DRey therefore bussing" is a weak argument.
Saying I am voting that because it is a weak argument is a weak argument.
Apparently everyone is drunk and is on the same logic. Unfortunately I am not, and thus am not following.
What's up with the accusation of someone being a gimmick? Someone accused me of the same in the sign up thread.
@Che: 3 posts in 3 minutes? I'm not sure if they've changed the rules while I was away, but multiposting like that used to be frowned on.
CropCircles' vote masquerades as a random vote despite RVS being over, and even acknowledges this fact. No reasons given, and the 3rd vote on a single target in a mini. Even if it were RVS, that's an indication of scum opportunism with no interest in scum hunting.
Now that I know that votes against the mod aren't counted, Unvote.
I agree with your assessment of CC's vote, and his lack of posting and willingness to contribute worries me. I'd like to see some more substance from him.Vote: CropCircles
I'm not currently getting a scum read on Zionite or DRey, and both seem genuine in their efforts to get the game moving in a positive scum hunting direction.
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-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
Caex, I don't like this. Setting yourself up to vote for the biggest wagon is bad. So I looked into you in more detail. Before I share that detail and what it means to me, I'd like you to spell out your case on me please. I feel like you tossed my name in there as an easy mislynch given that I'm fairly new and also notoriously scummy as town (ie: I'm bound to "slip" eventually).
@kpaca: Now that DRey has explained some, my reasoning why I think DRey could be town for his first and second post is because he might just have been trying to garner reactions with his quick attempt at ending the RVS. His second post (the naked vote) is just there as a double-down on his gambit. If it was a gambit, which I think it was, seeing DRey's behaviour now.
This is exactly what I said with different words. Why are you voting me again?
My view on DRey's first post is that I don't see it as telling either way. I mean, why would scum so openly do this? On the other hand, why would town do this? I know of DRey that he has a tendency to get himself under scrutiny early regardless of his alignment, due to his stubbornness. On the whole, I see it slightly more leaning town because I think it's not very likely scum would put themselves so obviously under pressure so early on. That is also why I wonder what precisely kpaca's reason is for wanting to lynch DRey (my question 'Why?', which he hasn't answered yet - kpaca, can you do that one of these days if you like?).
This is the same argument I was making at the time too. Now why would you be agreeing with me so much if I'm apparently scum and not realize it?
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
Caex, I don't like this. Setting yourself up to vote for the biggest wagon is bad. So I looked into you in more detail. Before I share that detail and what it means to me, I'd like you to spell out your case on me please. I feel like you tossed my name in there as an easy mislynch given that I'm fairly new and also notoriously scummy as town (ie: I'm bound to "slip" eventually).
Looool this is a bad post. I'm not "setting myself up" to vote the biggest wagon. I'm saying I will happily vote the biggest wagon (when the RVS votes are gone). He's the biggest wagon for a reason, you know. Pardon me if I'm interested in voting for scummy players.
As for you: I don't really have a "case" on you. But my gut reaction to your posts is that they're scummy. And my gut has proven pretty accurate in my recent games.
You pre-emptively proclaiming you'll be acting scummy and will scumslip at some point isn't making me feel any better about you, btw.
Unvote Vote Stardust
@Zionite: I'll get around to answering your question sometime today.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Wessel: I'm just wondering how you rectify agreeing with supposed scum. Seems like a contradiction in mindset. And I don't think you ever responded to my rebuttal to your reasoning. If you did, please point them out.
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
Caex, I don't like this. Setting yourself up to vote for the biggest wagon is bad. So I looked into you in more detail. Before I share that detail and what it means to me, I'd like you to spell out your case on me please. I feel like you tossed my name in there as an easy mislynch given that I'm fairly new and also notoriously scummy as town (ie: I'm bound to "slip" eventually).
Looool this is a bad post. I'm not "setting myself up" to vote the biggest wagon. I'm saying I will happily vote the biggest wagon (when the RVS votes are gone). He's the biggest wagon for a reason, you know. Pardon me if I'm interested in voting for scummy players.
As for you: I don't really have a "case" on you. But my gut reaction to your posts is that they're scummy. And my gut has proven pretty accurate in my recent games.
You pre-emptively proclaiming you'll be acting scummy and will scumslip at some point isn't making me feel any better about you, btw.
Unvote Vote Stardust
@Zionite: I'll get around to answering your question sometime today.
This post feels a lot like putting the cart before the horse. You're acting indignant about being criticized for wanting to vote for "scummy players", yet you've so far given a single debunked reason for doing so, aside from it's "the biggest wagon" (argumentum ad populum). Then you promise that the explanation for this behavior will come later.
I'm liking Caex for a lynch more and more.
Looool this is a bad post. I'm not "setting myself up" to vote the biggest wagon. I'm saying I will happily vote the biggest wagon (when the RVS votes are gone). He's the biggest wagon for a reason, you know. Pardon me if I'm interested in voting for scummy players.
As for you: I don't really have a "case" on you. But my gut reaction to your posts is that they're scummy. And my gut has proven pretty accurate in my recent games.
You pre-emptively proclaiming you'll be acting scummy and will scumslip at some point isn't making me feel any better about you, btw.
Well that's not exactly the reaction I expected. I'll have to think about what that OMGUS vote means here... Also, "biggest wagon" there was referring to any wagon that happens to build up, not Zionite in particular. You handwaved a reason to vote for any other three people, two of which were under pressure (both of whom I'm generally reading as town) and one that could be an easy mislynch (me).
As for my slips, you played with me in Giant Robots. You know this is true. I'm trying my best to comb through my posts here since it got us badly off track at times in that game, but using that as a basis for your vote is a non reason.
Anyway, I'd gone through your old posts and pegged you as leaning town actually based on your voting patterns. But now that you've followed your "gut" into a nervous vote, I'm not so sure considering there's a solid scum mindset behind that move. I'll mull it over to make sure I'm not being influenced by my own reaction to your vote. Stay tuned.
Just checking in from anxious game preparation to say Zionite's still likely scum. His post justifying his vote on CropCircles is really weird - he refers to himself in the third person to mask the fact that his attack on CropCircles is OMGUS ("a single target" = Zionite, natch), and he uses the "fact" that "RVS was over" to label what was clearly a random vote as a "masquerade" to attack Zionite, and reads opportunism into it without further elaboration to back it up beyond a third vote. If I didn't know better, that post would immediately land Zionite in my "scrubs to ignore for a while" column.
Plus there's the fact that he defends the equally-random votes of other players like Che because "he later cited reasons". In case Zionite hasn't noticed, CutCropy has made only ONE POST.
I know Zionite is smart enough not to derive some great scum find from one post, particularly one as vague as CropCircles'. I'm not sure what his intention is in focusing on CC, exactly - maybe trying to undermine a case; maybe trying to find a new target; maybe just angry - but I don't see a town mindset in his vendetta.
As an aside, the post also has weird tone-deaf lines like "I know I'm town, so I have a unique perspective no one else has at this point. I'm also confident I will not be today's lynch." of which I have no idea what to make.
Just checking in from anxious game preparation to say Zionite's still likely scum. His post justifying his vote on CropCircles is really weird - he refers to himself in the third person to mask the fact that his attack on CropCircles is OMGUS ("a single target" = Zionite, natch), and he uses the "fact" that "RVS was over" to label what was clearly a random vote as a "masquerade" to attack Zionite, and reads opportunism into it without further elaboration to back it up beyond a third vote. If I didn't know better, that post would immediately land Zionite in my "scrubs to ignore for a while" column.
Plus there's the fact that he defends the equally-random votes of other players like Che because "he later cited reasons". In case Zionite hasn't noticed, CutCropy has made only ONE POST.
I know Zionite is smart enough not to derive some great scum find from one post, particularly one as vague as CropCircles'. I'm not sure what his intention is in focusing on CC, exactly - maybe trying to undermine a case; maybe trying to find a new target; maybe just angry - but I don't see a town mindset in his vendetta.
As an aside, the post also has weird tone-deaf lines like "I know I'm town, so I have a unique perspective no one else has at this point. I'm also confident I will not be today's lynch." of which I have no idea what to make.
You're misinterpreting my reason for using third person, and are referring to the wrong voter (mistaking CC for Caex). Here's the post where I used third-person.
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
This reads as a scum statement because it does not come packaged with any particular points of DRey's Caex finds appealing. It's an opportunistic reservation to the right to vote Zionite later.
I used third-person to differentiate voting me and voting Zionite. I wanted to make that distinction because "vote me later" makes it a personal defense, while "vote Zionite later" is a general statement. The logic/speech is more correct when I don't use the pronoun. I don't think you misread it maliciously, since you are busy, but I do ask that you avoid reading recklessly.
I'm putting vote pressure on CC to get to talking, so none of your possibilities for my reasoning include the reality. Caex (my second priority) is already talking, so no need for pressure. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point, because I'm reading CC's vote as not random at all. It was deliberate; not "clearly a random vote". And I can always unvote CC later if he produces sufficient justification for the post.
What I don't like is that instead of seeking a resolution for your confusion on my reasoning for voting CC by simply asking, you are content to guess at it incorrectly and then base your conclusion on an essentially random list of possibilities.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
After latest developments I'm starting to think Xyre is scum with Caex (Caex attacks on him seem fabricated, so busing), but no matter Xyre's alignment Caex is scum, and Zionite is probably not. This is not townCaex, let's lynch him now.
unvote, vote Caex
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I think the evidence against Xyre is stronger than Caex, unless you're referencing some meta I'm unaware of. I think Caex was unintentionally using fallacious logic, so I'm comfortable hearing more from him until I can discern the motive. Xyre on the other hand is much more promising.
So what was in your opinion the most important thing happening that game?
Well, you know I had a different vantage point from you that game right? As much as I enjoyed our duel, my purpose back there was not really to lynch you, I was pushing for a no-lynch and just trying to create chaos because of our scummy roleblocker. So to me the most important thing that game was me trying to mind-control MindSlavor to prevent his lynch, I spent the whole game crapping my pants because of his bad play and the adverse effect if would have to our team.
But I know this is not the answer you are looking for, so just cut the chase and explain what exactly are you trying to accomplish here. I admit I don't know the answer you want me to say.
@Star Why you so concerned about CC when Zinda is also MIA for as long as him?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@Star Why you so concerned about CC when Zinda is also MIA for as long as him?
Zinda...bad! Yeah, he's in this game apparently. I want CC to join in because he's involved with Zionite. I feel like Zionite is probably town, but I'm not really too sure. Getting a feel for the person Zionite is gunning for would go a long way.
zindabad should post too, but I hadn't looked back at the player list to search for people to prod. And as I preview post here, it looks like he already did.
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So going on meta is scummy?
This seems like the weakest vote I have seen in this thread.
Even Drey's vote had more meaning than this.
I just realized I completely misinterpreted this. As someone who is unfamiliar with Seasons, this reads like DRey made the exact same post in Seasons and kpaca responded the same way, like an inside joke. I clicked on the quote links and was still in this thread.
Now that I understand this correctly, I have to say there aren't enough similarities to make this a strong argument. kpaca's been aloof so far, while the Seasons quotes make him seem far more serious. The similarities just aren't there for a meta argument.
Didn't we just play a game together where my entire schtick was aggression and meta-arguments?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
How did you get from "Xyre aggressively making meta arguments is scummy" to "going on meta=scummy"?
It's not meta itself. It's the way Xyre is using it.
{Magic: The RPG}
Soooo,
Because hes using meta as a reason to lynch hes scummy?
Or because hes using it to apply pressure to people hes scummy?
I fail to see how this is scummy. Scummy behavior is using weak arguments to typically lynch a person or vote a person.
Too add to this.
Adding an aggression clause does not equal scummy.
It never will, nor has it ever.
Here's the full sequence from Seasons for clarity:
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
- ZasZ (scum) proposes a massclaim
- DRey (scum) overreacts and votes him
- ZasZ throws suspicion back at DRey
- kpaca (scum) busses them both.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'm more focused on Xyre calling kpaca scum based on his vote than I am Xyre calling DRey scum for his nonsense post. Saying "kpaca voted DRey therefore bussing" is a weak argument.
{Magic: The RPG}
But then your point is "he's done this as town in the past, so he must be doing it as scum now", which is all assumption, right?
As for the bussing point, I'll say it again: I want DRey lynched first either way. If he's town, then obviously kpaca wasn't bussing and I'll reassess.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
{Magic: The RPG}
{Magic: The RPG}
Italic immunity
A scum mindset. Specifically.
Zionite (4): Che Guevera, Wessel, CropCircles, DRey
DRey (3): Xyre, kpaca, Stardust
WellOfLostGnomes (1): zindabad
CropCircles (1): Zionite
Xyre (1): Caex Kothar
Not Voting (2): Deaths_Vampire, WellOfLostGnomes
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Saturday, April 27th.
I approve this if Zion is not lynched toDay.
I don't approve this, also eventually I would want to see your reasoning on why my post had scummy intentions (not now though).
@Star what changed between this:
and this?
On the first post you assumed there was nothing of substance, meaning you haven't found it scummy. Then you reversed your stance, misrepped me and arrived at the ridiculous conclusion that "he's being anti-town therefore he's scum". Do you really believe this? Can you say with a straight face I'm being anti-town just because of my two posts, one of them being a naked vote? I also noticed you managed to completely avoid talking about scumnite, what do you think about him?
So you saw justification for my purposely naked vote on you, without not even bothering to ask for a reason? Seems legit.
Waaat?! in your first post it was noticeable you were trying to put the spotlight onto me in an subtle underhanded way(and that’s why voted you). And even with zero explanation from me, you are now saying I'm probably town because of what "I did"? Holy backpedal batman.
Heh, so you were so attentive to Xyre point you didn't even notice I was never quoted there? Why aren't you paying attention Zion? Maybe that's because you aren't really interested in anyone alignment, maybe you already know all of them.
Expand.
Yeah, that's because you don't know Xyre modus operandi correct? I mean you never played a game with him before right?
BTW what's your read on Zion?
You can't be serious, so when a player famous for doing X as town does it in a game he's scum because he's playing around his meta? Are you aware of the sheer absurdity of this? If meta is certainly not the end of it all, anti-meta is much less so. You are effectively repeating WOD's defense in Atagan "Yeah I usually do this as scum, but this time I'm trying to change my townmeta by also doing it as town". I agree we have little so far to say "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's town" but saying "Xyre is playing like townXyre so he's scum" is incredibly disingenuous.
Explain the bolded.
More votes on Zion, caught scum is caught.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You've got my attention with your case on Zionite, though. I'd be willing to vote Zionite or Stardust, along with Xyre obviously.
I didn't realize "null tell" meant "scum".
Xyre making meta arguments, as I've already ****ing explained, is a null tell. If he's scum, he'll want to look town and will try to emulate his town play. Any meta case Xyre makes therefore could be from any alignment. Which reminds me, btw, that Xyre wasn't actually town in Ataghan which I think neatly proves my point.
Which means you've got to rely on the strength of those specific meta arguments to read Xyre. And as I've already said, I think the one Xyre is using on kpaca is nonsense.
{Magic: The RPG}
Q: What changed? A: You posted a naked vote. That's when I assumed you were actually being serious with your first post instead of just trolling for reactions. Based on your latest post you obviously weren't being serious, hence my unvote. You're experienced enough to know when you're being anti-town, though, so stay in shape, eh?
On Zionite, Wessel's points to kick it off were fine, but it's early enough in the game that I'm not interested in chasing down a lynch. One of the people on his wagon is still there from an RVS vote even (CropCircles). I'm content to watch for now since he's being grilled by enough players that his wagon will continue for a while at least with or without me. Why so insistent on drumming up votes?
Thanks for the breakdown.
I'm analyzing the first wagon of the game since it's the only thing going on. I know I'm town, so I have a unique perspective no one else has at this point. I'm also confident I will not be today's lynch.
Che's vote on me was random, and he later cited reasons for leaving it there. This effort is a town tell.
Wessel's vote was not random and did not have reasons attached. When called out, reasons were given. Town tell.
CropCircles' vote masquerades as a random vote despite RVS being over, and even acknowledges this fact. No reasons given, and the 3rd vote on a single target in a mini. Even if it were RVS, that's an indication of scum opportunism with no interest in scum hunting.
DRey's vote does not cite reasons and ignores the call out for it. I suspect it was a knee-jerk reaction to his first post catching interest. His first post is a town tell for ending RVS, and his vote is a town tell for following through on his own setup. He's clearly scum hunting.
Of course, for the above reasons. Scum aren't looking to catch scum in RVS.
First of all, there is no way to "subtly" throw a spotlight on anyone to end RVS. I was very deliberate in my response and meant for it to draw a reaction, which is why I questioned you. Second, I've never said you were scum, so there's no way to backpedal when I've always maintained that my read of you is leaning town. Town can present useless claims too, especially when they are trying to catch scum.
You were quoted, but I misunderstood the context. This is a total null point, and I do not think your insinuation here is justified in the slightest. If I was so unconcerned with paying attention to the game, I would have completely ignored your first post and voted someone for a ridiculous reason, refusing to move the game forward.
>Implying your argument is so good it does not need to be scrutinized.
This reads as a scum statement because it does not come packaged with any particular points of DRey's Caex finds appealing. It's an opportunistic reservation to the right to vote Zionite later.
I looked back at your posts as well, and saw stuff I didn't like. If you want specifics: The part where you said DRey's "RVS ending post" is fake and fluff and all that, but when pressed decide he's town.
What's your read on Xyre? An
{Magic: The RPG}
*And Stardust?
{Magic: The RPG}
Did you read my response to DRey mentioning this same thing? What is your reaction to that?
Xyre's hard for me to read, but I have no reason to call him scum at this juncture. Stardust is following his reads and scum hunting, so I'm leaning town on him.
Saying I am voting that because it is a weak argument is a weak argument.
Very sorry, I will post less.
I'll protect you.
By gimmick I assume you mean Hydro, and this isn't a hydro.
Now that I know that votes against the mod aren't counted, Unvote.
I agree with your assessment of CC's vote, and his lack of posting and willingness to contribute worries me. I'd like to see some more substance from him.Vote: CropCircles
I'm not currently getting a scum read on Zionite or DRey, and both seem genuine in their efforts to get the game moving in a positive scum hunting direction.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Are you relaxed when you're playing as scum, or is being relaxed reserved only for townies?
Any questions for Zionite or Xyre at this point then? I'm not seeing a hunting attitude from you.
Caex, I don't like this. Setting yourself up to vote for the biggest wagon is bad. So I looked into you in more detail. Before I share that detail and what it means to me, I'd like you to spell out your case on me please. I feel like you tossed my name in there as an easy mislynch given that I'm fairly new and also notoriously scummy as town (ie: I'm bound to "slip" eventually).
Mod: Time for a prod on CropCircles?
This is exactly what I said with different words. Why are you voting me again?
Now thinking about it...
This is the same argument I was making at the time too. Now why would you be agreeing with me so much if I'm apparently scum and not realize it?
Looool this is a bad post. I'm not "setting myself up" to vote the biggest wagon. I'm saying I will happily vote the biggest wagon (when the RVS votes are gone). He's the biggest wagon for a reason, you know. Pardon me if I'm interested in voting for scummy players.
As for you: I don't really have a "case" on you. But my gut reaction to your posts is that they're scummy. And my gut has proven pretty accurate in my recent games.
You pre-emptively proclaiming you'll be acting scummy and will scumslip at some point isn't making me feel any better about you, btw.
Unvote
Vote Stardust
@Zionite: I'll get around to answering your question sometime today.
{Magic: The RPG}
This post feels a lot like putting the cart before the horse. You're acting indignant about being criticized for wanting to vote for "scummy players", yet you've so far given a single debunked reason for doing so, aside from it's "the biggest wagon" (argumentum ad populum). Then you promise that the explanation for this behavior will come later.
I'm liking Caex for a lynch more and more.
Well that's not exactly the reaction I expected. I'll have to think about what that OMGUS vote means here... Also, "biggest wagon" there was referring to any wagon that happens to build up, not Zionite in particular. You handwaved a reason to vote for any other three people, two of which were under pressure (both of whom I'm generally reading as town) and one that could be an easy mislynch (me).
As for my slips, you played with me in Giant Robots. You know this is true. I'm trying my best to comb through my posts here since it got us badly off track at times in that game, but using that as a basis for your vote is a non reason.
Anyway, I'd gone through your old posts and pegged you as leaning town actually based on your voting patterns. But now that you've followed your "gut" into a nervous vote, I'm not so sure considering there's a solid scum mindset behind that move. I'll mull it over to make sure I'm not being influenced by my own reaction to your vote. Stay tuned.
Plus there's the fact that he defends the equally-random votes of other players like Che because "he later cited reasons". In case Zionite hasn't noticed, CutCropy has made only ONE POST.
I know Zionite is smart enough not to derive some great scum find from one post, particularly one as vague as CropCircles'. I'm not sure what his intention is in focusing on CC, exactly - maybe trying to undermine a case; maybe trying to find a new target; maybe just angry - but I don't see a town mindset in his vendetta.
As an aside, the post also has weird tone-deaf lines like "I know I'm town, so I have a unique perspective no one else has at this point. I'm also confident I will not be today's lynch." of which I have no idea what to make.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
That's five. Frankly, I'm just fine with hearing him claim right now. No reason to tiptoe around the matter for the sake of protocol.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
You're misinterpreting my reason for using third person, and are referring to the wrong voter (mistaking CC for Caex). Here's the post where I used third-person.
I used third-person to differentiate voting me and voting Zionite. I wanted to make that distinction because "vote me later" makes it a personal defense, while "vote Zionite later" is a general statement. The logic/speech is more correct when I don't use the pronoun. I don't think you misread it maliciously, since you are busy, but I do ask that you avoid reading recklessly.
I'm putting vote pressure on CC to get to talking, so none of your possibilities for my reasoning include the reality. Caex (my second priority) is already talking, so no need for pressure. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point, because I'm reading CC's vote as not random at all. It was deliberate; not "clearly a random vote". And I can always unvote CC later if he produces sufficient justification for the post.
What I don't like is that instead of seeking a resolution for your confusion on my reasoning for voting CC by simply asking, you are content to guess at it incorrectly and then base your conclusion on an essentially random list of possibilities.
That's fine. But I'm content to watch how this plays out for now.
Zionite (5): Che Guevera, Wessel, CropCircles, DRey, Xyre
CropCircles (2): Zionite, WellOfLostGnomes
DRey (1): kpaca
WellOfLostGnomes (1): zindabad
Stardust (1): Caex Kothar
Not Voting (2): Deaths_Vampire, Stardust
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM, Saturday, April 27th.
If CropCircles does not post by the end of today, he will be due for a prod.
No one claims.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
unvote, vote Caex
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
But I know this is not the answer you are looking for, so just cut the chase and explain what exactly are you trying to accomplish here. I admit I don't know the answer you want me to say.
@Star Why you so concerned about CC when Zinda is also MIA for as long as him?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'll be along sometime in the relatively near future to get started in this game.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Zinda...bad! Yeah, he's in this game apparently. I want CC to join in because he's involved with Zionite. I feel like Zionite is probably town, but I'm not really too sure. Getting a feel for the person Zionite is gunning for would go a long way.
zindabad should post too, but I hadn't looked back at the player list to search for people to prod. And as I preview post here, it looks like he already did.