"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
The "Voting for the mod(s) or non-existant players doesn't work, I'll be providing votecounts along the way, and making the first votecount allows me to set precedent for all following votecounts so EAT YOUR PRETTY LITTLE HEART OUT GUARDMAN" votecount -
In utter defiance of my other half (and due to my body currently having a dangerously low amount of gyro in it) here is the imaginary vote count:
Votecount Æ:
25 Star DOOP General Zapp Brannigan (1) - 7hawk77
Guardman (1) - kosakosa (note the lower case :rolleyes:)
Those not voting for a Puff the Magic Dragon HD remake - Iso
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
I like you. But I dislike that I got fooled by you. So consider a general IGMEOY (unbolded) on you from now until (probably) forever.
Quick notes about Sword of Truth Mafia:
- I died Night 1, so this may be slightly off.
- Chimes claimed, no one killed them. The vig (Guardman) was afraid of nebulous consequences due to flavour being slightly ambiguous. The one kill that was directed at them (mafia) was roleblocked by their random floating roleblock.
- It got to a point where the town got to pick whether mafia or chimes won. And that was with mostly correct lynches.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Also, what's your thoughts about Day 4 being hardcoded into the rules? If the SK dies Day 1, how do your assumptions still hold true?
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
I like you. But I dislike that I got fooled by you. So consider a general IGMEOY (unbolded) on you from now until (probably) forever.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Why are you twisting what TCM said? He didn't say there was a better reason to be voting Eron. He said that Shark should have a better reason for voting Eron.
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
Quick notes about Sword of Truth Mafia:
- I died Night 1, so this may be slightly off.
- Chimes claimed, no one killed them. The vig (Guardman) was afraid of nebulous consequences due to flavour being slightly ambiguous. The one kill that was directed at them (mafia) was roleblocked by their random floating roleblock.
- It got to a point where the town got to pick whether mafia or chimes won. And that was with mostly correct lynches.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Also, what's your thoughts about Day 4 being hardcoded into the rules? If the SK dies Day 1, how do your assumptions still hold true?
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
I like you. But I dislike that I got fooled by you. So consider a general IGMEOY (unbolded) on you from now until (probably) forever.
Unvote
*cough cough*soreloser
To both of your questions, I was simply showing the worse case scenario, and why the number has to be 4 chimes. Think about it this way: In my scenario with 5 chimes, they control the lynch for day 4, meaning that they technically won day 3 (short of a rouge sk shot). I can't see it being less than 4, since 3 is the default for 12 player games, and this is a 16 player game *shrugs*.
As far as the "unless you have another reason". I was calling out SF on trying to claim a "gotcha" tell. Why I think he has another reason is because he said we both "slipped", yet he is going after EtR over me. I am curious why that is...
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Why are you twisting what TCM said? He didn't say there was a better reason to be voting Eron. He said that Shark should have a better reason for voting Eron.
Consider the section "a better reason".
The line can be reworded to, "If you want to vote EtR, come up with a better reason". This implies "voting EtR for that reason is incorrect", or that there is a legitimate reason to vote EtR in the first place.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Also, what's your thoughts about Day 4 being hardcoded into the rules? If the SK dies Day 1, how do your assumptions still hold true?
To both of your questions, I was simply showing the worse case scenario, and why the number has to be 4 chimes. Think about it this way: In my scenario with 5 chimes, they control the lynch for day 4, meaning that they technically won day 3 (short of a rouge sk shot). I can't see it being less than 4, since 3 is the default for 12 player games, and this is a 16 player game *shrugs*.
As far as the "unless you have another reason". I was calling out SF on trying to claim a "gotcha" tell. Why I think he has another reason is because he said we both "slipped", yet he is going after EtR over me. I am curious why that is...
I think it would be beneficial if we stopped feeding Shark answers and let him confirm what he is voting me for.
I certainly can't see anything in what was said between TCM and I that would constitute a slip since I just copied and pasted from the OP, so I'm interested in how he plans to spin this, and as has been said, why he voted me over TCM. Maybe he thinks I'm the easier lynch target.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
@EtR
So guard told you that 5 chime exist? or was TCM correct with the 4 chime 1 sk? Sorry, I want this answer to be crystal clear if you know it.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
Just because TCM made an assumption that the days/chimes were correlated and EtR asked the mod doesn't make them scum. I think that this whole thing reflects poorly on shark.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
@EtR
So guard told you that 5 chime exist? or was TCM correct with the 4 chime 1 sk? Sorry, I want this answer to be crystal clear if you know it.
It was part of the rules from the Original Post. Full rules here for clarity.
Special Rules:
1. If you have an item it may be passed to a player of your choice at night. You may pass only one item per night and passing counts as a night action.
2. Items in this game are ammo that is required to use an ability. Different abilities require different items to use. Most abilities require ammo.
3. You may only perform one night action each night.
4. If you kill or are the lynching vote on a player with an item you get the item they were holding.
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
6. There is no mafia, so the town has that going for them.
7. Watch out for the Serial Killer (and be sure to protect your Lucky Charms).
8. Town names appear in royal blue and their win condition is: “All anti-town forces are dead.”
9. Don’t directly quote your PM or discuss formatting, that will draw my ire and will result in modkills.
10. Don’t use the Thank You function. If it is being used and becomes a problem I will modkill for using it.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Why are you twisting what TCM said? He didn't say there was a better reason to be voting Eron. He said that Shark should have a better reason for voting Eron.
Consider the section "a better reason".
The line can be reworded to, "If you want to vote EtR, come up with a better reason". This implies "voting EtR for that reason is incorrect", or that there is a legitimate reason to vote EtR in the first place.
I feel that is a bit of a strech, but I understand what you are saying.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
You don't like me using the rules, of the game we are playing, to back myself up?
Yes, I don't see scum w/o daychat trying to ask why they don't publically. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me. I dont follow that logic at all.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Show where EtR referred to the number of chimes in game.
To both of your questions, I was simply showing the worse case scenario, and why the number has to be 4 chimes. Think about it this way: In my scenario with 5 chimes, they control the lynch for day 4, meaning that they technically won day 3 (short of a rouge sk shot). I can't see it being less than 4, since 3 is the default for 12 player games, and this is a 16 player game *shrugs*.
Okay, fair enough. I don't think that logic makes three or five chimes impossible, though, just unlikely.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
What kind of reaction were you looking for? Mild suspicion was warranted for EtR and TCM. It seemed to me what they were doing was trying to figure out what adversity the town most overcome. If you think that is scummy enough to get a wagon going, I won't agree with you.
Also I don't understand how you can say TCM is town and EtR is scum when both of their analysis were the same result.
This is why when people ask other people questions, and a third party comes barging in, people get annoyed. Cyouni, you should have known better and let SF answer first without you and Void playing the "analyze what I meant" question game.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game.
I think it was apparent that was what you saw. What I don't get is why you would think that was a scum slip, since the posts were both based on the OP.
I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Unless I am missing a step of logic, how does a vote on EtR connect with finding out my reason for TMCT?
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Yes, I don't see scum w/o daychat trying to ask why they don't publically. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me. I dont follow that logic at all.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Show where EtR referred to the number of chimes in game.
@Daychat: Meant scumchat there. (Le gasp a slip :o)
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Why town-TCM?
Same reason Voxx was town in OT2R Mafia: He first started to kill RVS. I'm just getting town-vibes from him.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
What kind of reaction were you looking for? Mild suspicion was warranted for EtR and TCM. It seemed to me what they were doing was trying to figure out what adversity the town most overcome. If you think that is scummy enough to get a wagon going, I won't agree with you.
Also I don't understand how you can say TCM is town and EtR is scum when both of their analysis were the same result.
I was just getting initial gut responses from the reactions and your two just struck me as the most unsettling. But looking back and you'll see in a second, I do like you a bit better as town.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game.
I think it was apparent that was what you saw. What I don't get is why you would think that was a scum slip, since the posts were both based on the OP.
I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Unless I am missing a step of logic, how does a vote on EtR connect with finding out my reason for TMCT?
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
There are a few too many "I"s in those sentences.
1. Realistically, I cannot know if it's a scumslip unless EtR flipped scum.
2. I like your responses better.
3. I like how you derived your 4-scum theory than EtR. You methodically derived it based on your knowledge on common setups. As you will see in a second, EtR does not.
4. Since when is the use of 2 "I"s scummy?
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
You don't like me using the rules, of the game we are playing, to back myself up?
There's a difference between using the rules to help and just blatantly JUST using the rules.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
@EtR
So guard told you that 5 chime exist? or was TCM correct with the 4 chime 1 sk? Sorry, I want this answer to be crystal clear if you know it.
It was part of the rules from the Original Post. Full rules here for clarity.
Special Rules:
1. If you have an item it may be passed to a player of your choice at night. You may pass only one item per night and passing counts as a night action.
2. Items in this game are ammo that is required to use an ability. Different abilities require different items to use. Most abilities require ammo.
3. You may only perform one night action each night.
4. If you kill or are the lynching vote on a player with an item you get the item they were holding.
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
6. There is no mafia, so the town has that going for them.
7. Watch out for the Serial Killer (and be sure to protect your Lucky Charms).
8. Town names appear in royal blue and their win condition is: “All anti-town forces are dead.”
9. Don’t directly quote your PM or discuss formatting, that will draw my ire and will result in modkills.
10. Don’t use the Thank You function. If it is being used and becomes a problem I will modkill for using it.
I don't know the experience level of 77hawk, so for now I'll assume relatively new (<1 year overall). This post reads as EtR trying to look proactive and helpful by pointing to the rules. But when you honestly look at the rules, I'll pull up the one in question:
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
I don't have time for an involved post at the moment due to Easter festivities, but I like Shark a lot for town so far this game. His points have been largely good, and his posts read emotively like they're coming from a +town perspective.
I've only played with TCM once, and he was scum in that game (OT2R). So far, this TCM feels different than that TCM.
Eron's posts so far feel like he's trying to ride TCM's coattails on the setup-gaming, and doing a poor job of it.
Vote EtR.
Sidenote: anyone know what causes this "reload the window" error? Then when I refresh the tab, the error is still present....I need to go back to the main forum and manually re-enter the thread for it to go away.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Why town-TCM?
Same reason Voxx was town in OT2R Mafia: He first started to kill RVS. I'm just getting town-vibes from him.
And yet you claimed 20 posts back that you believe that both he and I scum slipped.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
What kind of reaction were you looking for? Mild suspicion was warranted for EtR and TCM. It seemed to me what they were doing was trying to figure out what adversity the town most overcome. If you think that is scummy enough to get a wagon going, I won't agree with you.
Also I don't understand how you can say TCM is town and EtR is scum when both of their analysis were the same result.
I was just getting initial gut responses from the reactions and your two just struck me as the most unsettling. But looking back and you'll see in a second, I do like you a bit better as town.
So you've determined that you have reads on several people, but then you turn around and attribute the majority of them to gut. What about Hawks posts were unsettling? Also, you don't explain later why you believe Hawk to now be town.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game.
I think it was apparent that was what you saw. What I don't get is why you would think that was a scum slip, since the posts were both based on the OP.
I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Unless I am missing a step of logic, how does a vote on EtR connect with finding out my reason for TMCT?
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
There are a few too many "I"s in those sentences.
1. Realistically, I cannot know if it's a scumslip unless EtR flipped scum.
2. I like your responses better.
3. I like how you derived your 4-scum theory than EtR. You methodically derived it based on your knowledge on common setups. As you will see in a second, EtR does not.
4. Since when is the use of 2 "I"s scummy?
1. You still haven't even defined what you think I did that was a scum slip. You keep alluding to something but haven't actually demonstrated anything.
2. In the ~90 posts we've had this game you have called TCM scum and town but you have not provided any reasoning for either. Each time it's been something to the effect of "he scumslipped" or "I like your responses better" or "This is similar to Voxx in a different game and he was town." How can your reasoning for calling a player town be based on another player in a different game?
3. Overexplanation.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game. I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
You don't like me using the rules, of the game we are playing, to back myself up?
There's a difference between using the rules to help and just blatantly JUST using the rules.
"5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia)."
@EtR
So guard told you that 5 chime exist? or was TCM correct with the 4 chime 1 sk? Sorry, I want this answer to be crystal clear if you know it.
It was part of the rules from the Original Post. Full rules here for clarity.
Special Rules:
1. If you have an item it may be passed to a player of your choice at night. You may pass only one item per night and passing counts as a night action.
2. Items in this game are ammo that is required to use an ability. Different abilities require different items to use. Most abilities require ammo.
3. You may only perform one night action each night.
4. If you kill or are the lynching vote on a player with an item you get the item they were holding.
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
6. There is no mafia, so the town has that going for them.
7. Watch out for the Serial Killer (and be sure to protect your Lucky Charms).
8. Town names appear in royal blue and their win condition is: “All anti-town forces are dead.”
9. Don’t directly quote your PM or discuss formatting, that will draw my ire and will result in modkills.
10. Don’t use the Thank You function. If it is being used and becomes a problem I will modkill for using it.
I don't know the experience level of 77hawk, so for now I'll assume relatively new (<1 year overall). This post reads as EtR trying to look proactive and helpful by pointing to the rules.
That's quite an interesting twist you're giving my post. If you had actually taken the time to read what happened instead of jumping to conclusions based on the fact that I reposted the rules, you would see that Hawk thought that I had gotten this information from Guardman himself. I posted what I did and clearly stated that it was from the original post so that there would be no confusion on Hawk's part as I also assumed that he was new-ish.
How you can possibly try and slant that as a negative is beyond me. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you are simply not reading what is happening here.
But when you honestly look at the rules, I'll pull up the one in question:
5. Each dead Chime increases the time it takes for them to win by 1 Day. With all of them alive it will take them 4 Days to win. If at the end of Day 4 they are all alive they have won. Chimes do not have a mafia nightkill (you know since they aren't mafia).
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
Please demonstrate HOW my post is terrible. All you've done here is add some adjectives and nouns together and called it a case.
Current reads:
:rate0:EtR (stated)
:rate4:Kosa (scumchat question)
:rate4:TCM (town play overall + started killing RVS)
:rate4:77hawk (interaction w/ EtR)
Again, you've flip flopped on TCM, you never demonstrated why you think Hawk is town and you never even mentioned Kosa.
Please show what about Hawk's interactions with me demonstrate that he is town. You should also show how you've gone from calling TCM scum to now calling him town.
You also never answered how voting me ties with TCM voting TMCT.
I don't have time for an involved post at the moment due to Easter festivities, but I like Shark a lot for town so far this game. His points have been largely good, and his posts read emotively like they're coming from a +town perspective.
I've only played with TCM once, and he was scum in that game (OT2R). So far, this TCM feels different than that TCM.
Eron's posts so far feel like he's trying to ride TCM's coattails on the setup-gaming, and doing a poor job of it.
Vote EtR.
What about Shark's points do you think are good?
What about TCM's post feel different?
Does anyone else think that Shark's case warrants EtR to be lynched? The reason why I'm asking is because I think that it is a fairly weak case but not entirely invalid. EtR did a good job defending himself and I don't think he deserves a lynch.
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
Reason for scumslip: both alluded to the number of chimes in game.
I think it was apparent that was what you saw. What I don't get is why you would think that was a scum slip, since the posts were both based on the OP.
I don't like EtRs response and using the rules to back himself up. Not sold on him. Originally vote on EtR was more based on seeing townTCM and wanting to see reason for vote on TMCT.
Unless I am missing a step of logic, how does a vote on EtR connect with finding out my reason for TMCT?
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
There are a few too many "I"s in those sentences.
1. Realistically, I cannot know if it's a scumslip unless EtR flipped scum.
2. I like your responses better.
3. I like how you derived your 4-scum theory than EtR. You methodically derived it based on your knowledge on common setups. As you will see in a second, EtR does not.
4. Since when is the use of 2 "I"s scummy?
1. You still haven't even defined what you think I did that was a scum slip. You keep alluding to something but haven't actually demonstrated anything.
2. In the ~90 posts we've had this game you have called TCM scum and town but you have not provided any reasoning for either. Each time it's been something to the effect of "he scumslipped" or "I like your responses better" or "This is similar to Voxx in a different game and he was town." How can your reasoning for calling a player town be based on another player in a different game?
3. Overexplanation.
Please show what about Hawk's interactions with me demonstrate that he is town. You should also show how you've gone from calling TCM scum to now calling him town.
You also never answered how voting me ties with TCM voting TMCT.
Does anyone else think that Shark's case warrants EtR to be lynched? The reason why I'm asking is because I think that it is a fairly weak case but not entirely invalid. EtR did a good job defending himself and I don't think he deserves a lynch.
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
FoS SilverSurfer
I don't think Shark's case on EtR is enough to get lynched. Why would you even mention that when EtR isn't really close to being lynched. The first part of this post feels like post claim discussion.
@AG - Look at what Shark said regarding Hawk in his post. Initially he said he didn't like Hawk's responses but will show why he thinks Hawk is town later in the post. He fails to do that but still has him lumped into his town category.
He also calls Kosa town and his only reasoning is scumchat, when he hasn't really mentioned Kosa at all up till that point.
The whole thing feels like he made a bad vote and a bad comment to go with it and he's now trying to back himself out of a corner. His "reads" have been inconsistent and he has lacked any support to go along with them.
Does anyone else think that Shark's case warrants EtR to be lynched? The reason why I'm asking is because I think that it is a fairly weak case but not entirely invalid. EtR did a good job defending himself and I don't think he deserves a lynch.
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
FoS SilverSurfer
wat
That's one hell of an overreaction. Also, hanging out with family notequals to vacation. It's not like I can't unvote later, if I feel Eron defends himself well enough. I just feel that more pressure is warranted.
Hawk, how many games have you played, and what alignments were you for those games?
Just because TCM made an assumption that the days/chimes were correlated and EtR asked the mod doesn't make them scum. I think that this whole thing reflects poorly on shark.
Same reason Voxx was town in OT2R Mafia: He first started to kill RVS. I'm just getting town-vibes from him.
Why didn't you say that when you first called Eron and TCM out for the scumslip? The only way I can possibly read "TCM scumslipped" is "I think TCM is scum."
And /barn Eron, you need to explain your read on hawk and how TCM's vote on me has anything to do with your Eron vote.
I'm pretty new. This is my second forum game of mafia and I was Mafia with TMCT and cyouni in Steins;Gate. I was so bad that I confused the town with my god awful plays which gave us the win.
As far as my FoS, I like my votes to hold meaning so I would prefer to just leave it where it is with RVS and use FoS instead of just throwing my vote wherever giving strange signals. Currently I think that SS is the most suspicious, why wouldn't he be getting my FoS?
@ SS
You still haven't answered what you agree with sharks case.
Also it appears that you are not completely absent which makes me feel better about your vote. I assumed that you were just casting a vote and leaving for a few days without being able to monitor what happens.
I'm pretty new. This is my second forum game of mafia and I was Mafia with TMCT and cyouni in Steins;Gate. I was so bad that I confused the town with my god awful plays which gave us the win.
As far as my FoS, I like my votes to hold meaning so I would prefer to just leave it where it is with RVS and use FoS instead of just throwing my vote wherever giving strange signals. Currently I think that SS is the most suspicious, why wouldn't he be getting my FoS?
@ SS
You still haven't answered what you agree with sharks case.
Also it appears that you are not completely absent which makes me feel better about your vote. I assumed that you were just casting a vote and leaving for a few days without being able to monitor what happens.
Somewhere Guardman is having apoplexy right about now (humor@FoS discussion. I'm sure he'll explain later).
I don't even consider what Shark put forward a "case." He enumerated a few suspicions, perhaps -- but that's pretty far from being a case. Cases are much more comprehensive. I merely think that Eron needs a bit more pressure, because I didn't like his interactions with TCM regarding the number of chimes = number of days thing.
The extent to which you're defending Eron unnecessarily coupled with your relative inexperience makes me suspect you of being Eron's scumbuddy.
The extent to which you're defending Eron unnecessarily coupled with your relative inexperience makes me suspect you of being Eron's scumbuddy.
While not being fond of meta, I feel it's important to point out that hawk, as scum, defended Iso for the majority of Steins;Gate's Day 2 despite knowing he was the Town Cop, so to believe hawk and Eron are scumbuddies based his defense of Eron and his relative inexperience is incorrect.
On Shark: Breaking RVS with a terrible, as-scummy-as-it-gets post is his M.O.. It's not a good reason to case him solely based on that, as Ataghan players should remember.
Private Mod Note
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That doesn't mean there are four chimes, though. "DoomsDay" is incremented by the number of dead chimes, not the number of living ones; and the default of Day 4 is arbitrary for all we know.
Haven't the foggiest
In utter defiance of my other half (and due to my body currently having a dangerously low amount of gyro in it) here is the imaginary vote count:
Votecount Æ:
25 Star DOOP General Zapp Brannigan (1) - 7hawk77
Guardman (1) - kosakosa (note the lower case :rolleyes:)
Those not voting for a Puff the Magic Dragon HD remake - Iso
Carry on.
unvote
Nope, just a foreigner/longtime lurker.
I dont see what Ninja turtle #1 saw that was scummy about ninja turtle #2.
Massclaim bad, napster bad.
Then guess.
-_-
Your post is annoying the heck out of me. If your last line is your way of saying no massclaim, be more direct about it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I said it was a stretch, I even referenced his futurama nixon avatar :C
I haven't played with TCM before. I wasn't sure if he was being sarcastic about his vote on TCMT. Is he always this serious from the get go?
Outdated Mafia Stats
No, I'm not playing that game. Why should I, TCM?
EtR and TCM scumslipped.
unvote, vote EtR
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
How do you figure? It's easy enough to figure out why there are 4, if they win at the end of day 4...
11 town, 4 chimes, 1 sk + no nk:
Mislynch, Sk kills town (N1), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N2), Mislynch, Sk kills town (N3)
We now have an sk, 4 chimes, and 5 town, another mislynch would have the town be 4, and chimes be 4 and the end of day 4. I mean, this is assuming the sk hits town every night, and no other townies have a killing ability, but that's how I got there are 4 chimes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but if I am not, unvote unless you have a better reason for voting EtR.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Um...What?
Why? And given that why Eron over TCM?
"Day 4" is hardcoded into the chimes' win-con. What if we no-lynch the first four Days and there's no SK kill the first three Nights? We'd have the same numbers we do now, but the chimes would still win at the end of D4.
Also, if we lynched the SK D4 in your scenario, we'd have a clean 5-4 majority but the chimes would still win. "Day 4" has to be arbitrary (or strictly related to game balance, which is arbitrary for us right now as far as we can tell).
I'm in Africa and rely on the accidental WIFI until the 4th, so bear with me if I don't post every day.
TCM isn't scum with that post about the numbers. Stop modgaming though...
I like you. But I dislike that I got fooled by you. So consider a general IGMEOY (unbolded) on you from now until (probably) forever.
Unvote
- I died Night 1, so this may be slightly off.
- Chimes claimed, no one killed them. The vig (Guardman) was afraid of nebulous consequences due to flavour being slightly ambiguous. The one kill that was directed at them (mafia) was roleblocked by their random floating roleblock.
- It got to a point where the town got to pick whether mafia or chimes won. And that was with mostly correct lynches.
Pretty much this:
See above for more details.
Amusingly, I was thinking of changing mine.
Do explain.
Oh? What's this about a "better reason for voting EtR"?
Also, what's your thoughts about Day 4 being hardcoded into the rules? If the SK dies Day 1, how do your assumptions still hold true?
*cough cough*soreloser
Why are you twisting what TCM said? He didn't say there was a better reason to be voting Eron. He said that Shark should have a better reason for voting Eron.
To both of your questions, I was simply showing the worse case scenario, and why the number has to be 4 chimes. Think about it this way: In my scenario with 5 chimes, they control the lynch for day 4, meaning that they technically won day 3 (short of a rouge sk shot). I can't see it being less than 4, since 3 is the default for 12 player games, and this is a 16 player game *shrugs*.
As far as the "unless you have another reason". I was calling out SF on trying to claim a "gotcha" tell. Why I think he has another reason is because he said we both "slipped", yet he is going after EtR over me. I am curious why that is...
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The line can be reworded to, "If you want to vote EtR, come up with a better reason". This implies "voting EtR for that reason is incorrect", or that there is a legitimate reason to vote EtR in the first place.
Alright.
Why such trepidation in asking?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I certainly can't see anything in what was said between TCM and I that would constitute a slip since I just copied and pasted from the OP, so I'm interested in how he plans to spin this, and as has been said, why he voted me over TCM. Maybe he thinks I'm the easier lynch target.
@EtR
So guard told you that 5 chime exist? or was TCM correct with the 4 chime 1 sk? Sorry, I want this answer to be crystal clear if you know it.
Just because TCM made an assumption that the days/chimes were correlated and EtR asked the mod doesn't make them scum. I think that this whole thing reflects poorly on shark.
Outdated Mafia Stats
It was part of the rules from the Original Post. Full rules here for clarity.
I feel that is a bit of a strech, but I understand what you are saying.
Also, don't like 77hawks nor Cyouni's reactions to the situation I caused.
Also I helped kill RVS again. :D.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
You don't like me using the rules, of the game we are playing, to back myself up?
Is this what, the 3rd game in a row you do it?
Show where EtR referred to the number of chimes in game.
Okay, fair enough. I don't think that logic makes three or five chimes impossible, though, just unlikely.
Why town-TCM?
What kind of reaction were you looking for? Mild suspicion was warranted for EtR and TCM. It seemed to me what they were doing was trying to figure out what adversity the town most overcome. If you think that is scummy enough to get a wagon going, I won't agree with you.
Also I don't understand how you can say TCM is town and EtR is scum when both of their analysis were the same result.
Outdated Mafia Stats
What is your reasoning for this statement?
This is why when people ask other people questions, and a third party comes barging in, people get annoyed. Cyouni, you should have known better and let SF answer first without you and Void playing the "analyze what I meant" question game.
I think it was apparent that was what you saw. What I don't get is why you would think that was a scum slip, since the posts were both based on the OP.
Unless I am missing a step of logic, how does a vote on EtR connect with finding out my reason for TMCT?
There are a few too many "I"s in those sentences.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
His reasoning for thinking that there are 4 chimes has nothing to do with knowing how many there are and doesn't seem fabricated.
How is that a slip when all the info is in the OP?
Break them down.
Agreed.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Feels like it. TCM did some too though with his vote.
@Daychat: Meant scumchat there. (Le gasp a slip :o)
@EtR: See below.
Same reason Voxx was town in OT2R Mafia: He first started to kill RVS. I'm just getting town-vibes from him.
I was just getting initial gut responses from the reactions and your two just struck me as the most unsettling. But looking back and you'll see in a second, I do like you a bit better as town.
1. Realistically, I cannot know if it's a scumslip unless EtR flipped scum.
2. I like your responses better.
3. I like how you derived your 4-scum theory than EtR. You methodically derived it based on your knowledge on common setups. As you will see in a second, EtR does not.
4. Since when is the use of 2 "I"s scummy?
There's a difference between using the rules to help and just blatantly JUST using the rules.
I don't know the experience level of 77hawk, so for now I'll assume relatively new (<1 year overall). This post reads as EtR trying to look proactive and helpful by pointing to the rules. But when you honestly look at the rules, I'll pull up the one in question:
Now read the rules again. There is NOTHING stated in the rules that says there are 4 chimes. TCM used the rules to support his case, but obviously not entirely. EtR's post looks terrible and I think he's scum because of it.
__________________________________________________________
*************************************************
Current reads:
:rate0:EtR (stated)
:rate4:Kosa (scumchat question)
:rate4:TCM (town play overall + started killing RVS)
:rate4:77hawk (interaction w/ EtR)
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I've only played with TCM once, and he was scum in that game (OT2R). So far, this TCM feels different than that TCM.
Eron's posts so far feel like he's trying to ride TCM's coattails on the setup-gaming, and doing a poor job of it.
Vote EtR.
Sidenote: anyone know what causes this "reload the window" error? Then when I refresh the tab, the error is still present....I need to go back to the main forum and manually re-enter the thread for it to go away.
And yet you claimed 20 posts back that you believe that both he and I scum slipped.
So you've determined that you have reads on several people, but then you turn around and attribute the majority of them to gut. What about Hawks posts were unsettling? Also, you don't explain later why you believe Hawk to now be town.
1. You still haven't even defined what you think I did that was a scum slip. You keep alluding to something but haven't actually demonstrated anything.
2. In the ~90 posts we've had this game you have called TCM scum and town but you have not provided any reasoning for either. Each time it's been something to the effect of "he scumslipped" or "I like your responses better" or "This is similar to Voxx in a different game and he was town." How can your reasoning for calling a player town be based on another player in a different game?
3. Overexplanation.
This makes no sense whatsoever.
That's quite an interesting twist you're giving my post. If you had actually taken the time to read what happened instead of jumping to conclusions based on the fact that I reposted the rules, you would see that Hawk thought that I had gotten this information from Guardman himself. I posted what I did and clearly stated that it was from the original post so that there would be no confusion on Hawk's part as I also assumed that he was new-ish.
How you can possibly try and slant that as a negative is beyond me. The only conclusion that I can come to is that you are simply not reading what is happening here.
Please demonstrate HOW my post is terrible. All you've done here is add some adjectives and nouns together and called it a case.
Again, you've flip flopped on TCM, you never demonstrated why you think Hawk is town and you never even mentioned Kosa.
Please show what about Hawk's interactions with me demonstrate that he is town. You should also show how you've gone from calling TCM scum to now calling him town.
You also never answered how voting me ties with TCM voting TMCT.
What about Shark's points do you think are good?
What about TCM's post feel different?
The real problem that I brought this up was because SS voted for EtR when he will be on vacation. What town mindset would throw a vote out and then just let whatever happens happens when away? If no one else really agrees that EtR should be lynched, I think that SS should be primary suspect until he explains his thought processes.
FoS SilverSurfer
Outdated Mafia Stats
I dislike these two responses. EtR is attacking Shark's reads because he hasn't stated them before? It sounds like a false lack of understanding.
This is closer to what I'd expect as a response.
I don't think Shark's case on EtR is enough to get lynched. Why would you even mention that when EtR isn't really close to being lynched. The first part of this post feels like post claim discussion.
He also calls Kosa town and his only reasoning is scumchat, when he hasn't really mentioned Kosa at all up till that point.
The whole thing feels like he made a bad vote and a bad comment to go with it and he's now trying to back himself out of a corner. His "reads" have been inconsistent and he has lacked any support to go along with them.
wat
That's one hell of an overreaction. Also, hanging out with family notequals to vacation. It's not like I can't unvote later, if I feel Eron defends himself well enough. I just feel that more pressure is warranted.
Hawk, how many games have you played, and what alignments were you for those games?
FOS without currently voting someone else? Care to explain why you're not voting SilverSurfer instead? Or what happened to this:
Why didn't you say that when you first called Eron and TCM out for the scumslip? The only way I can possibly read "TCM scumslipped" is "I think TCM is scum."
And /barn Eron, you need to explain your read on hawk and how TCM's vote on me has anything to do with your Eron vote.
As far as my FoS, I like my votes to hold meaning so I would prefer to just leave it where it is with RVS and use FoS instead of just throwing my vote wherever giving strange signals. Currently I think that SS is the most suspicious, why wouldn't he be getting my FoS?
@ SS
You still haven't answered what you agree with sharks case.
Also it appears that you are not completely absent which makes me feel better about your vote. I assumed that you were just casting a vote and leaving for a few days without being able to monitor what happens.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Somewhere Guardman is having apoplexy right about now (humor@FoS discussion. I'm sure he'll explain later).
I don't even consider what Shark put forward a "case." He enumerated a few suspicions, perhaps -- but that's pretty far from being a case. Cases are much more comprehensive. I merely think that Eron needs a bit more pressure, because I didn't like his interactions with TCM regarding the number of chimes = number of days thing.
The extent to which you're defending Eron unnecessarily coupled with your relative inexperience makes me suspect you of being Eron's scumbuddy.
While not being fond of meta, I feel it's important to point out that hawk, as scum, defended Iso for the majority of Steins;Gate's Day 2 despite knowing he was the Town Cop, so to believe hawk and Eron are scumbuddies based his defense of Eron and his relative inexperience is incorrect.