With the deadline rapidly approaching, I think I still want to lynch Eron over the alternatives.
Void isn't someone I'm all that interested in. Too many people that I have scum reads on voting for him to be worth pushing through fairly quickly.
LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying. They're both scum reads, and the recent distancing feels like just that. Seppel comes in, blows Captain up, and says we're lynching Eron. An early vote on him after the reset isn't terribly indicative of alignment, considering that.
But I think I ultimately still want to lynch Eron, despite feeling slightly conflicted by his resignation.
Unless enough people want to lynch Kill Joy instead, maybe.
Might have more thoughts tomorrow, but I'm extremely tired. Has been a stupidly long day.
I'm all healthy again. I'm working on a thorough reread.
I spent 3 hours on it yesterday and ended at about 1/3rd of the thread.
I'll be all read up and will post my reads in 2 or 3 days from now.
Is there anything urgent I should answer meanwhile?
LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying. They're both scum reads, and the recent distancing feels like just that. Seppel comes in, blows Captain up, and says we're lynching Eron. An early vote on him after the reset isn't terribly indicative of alignment, considering that.
But I think I ultimately still want to lynch Eron, despite feeling slightly conflicted by his resignation.
So, Eron, who you say you're slightly convicted on, is who you'd rather lynch, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT.
You said, "LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying." This doesn't line up with your previous post, where you discount your read of Eron/LoT being scumbuddies:
Will post tomorrow after deciding what I think regarding the Eron/LoT recent happenings.
My initial reads had them as scum together. It's still at least possible, with them attempting to distance and get one of them cleared via false dichotomy.
Let's do a little tidbit of analysis here.
Previous to the above post, we had Eron giving up, and LoT posting this:
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
That almost makes me want to swing lynch around to LoT.
So there's where you came up with this idea. Even though LoT didn't unvote Eron. Your beginning argument was somewhat stable, but it's clear from your next posts that you didn't remember what you were talking about.
But wait -- you've had these thoughts since the beginning of the game:
I'm just going to step away from the game before I say something I'll regret.
I wasn't asking for a goddamn PBPA analysis on each player, even a couple words on each for me to help evaluate you alignment was all I was asking. Being talked down to in such a condescending manner 'No. Go away and come back when you have something useful' is beyond infuriating.
Asking people to give thoughts on a specific cluster of players, even if I'm only really interested in 2-3 of the responses is a tactic I employ on people I have no read on.
In the end, yes, you are probably town. Just the least enjoyable to play with town I've met yet.
Well at least we both know why I didn't want to answer. Too easy to see through your "tactics," eh?
1/3 of your posts in the entire game are about the above issue.
I don't think we're going to get much more out of the day, not with a vanilla claim and no real alternative lynch proposed.
Which is partially giving me second thoughts - I'd have expected the scum team to fight harder against a lynch of their own after already losing one, but I can see them just laying down and taking it too, as the EtR lynch seemed inevitable.
I feel pretty strongly town about most of the people on the EtR lynch, anyways (Seppel, Wessel, Rhand, Teh JeY), so... yeah.
If you have any additional thoughts, EtR, might as well get them out.
This culminates with this post directed toward Eron. Your first actual message to him, after having voted for him throughout the entirety of the game. Compare it to LoT's next post:
Thing is, your wagon is a pretty decent block of 'probably towns'.
I think there's maybe three people on it that I don't have decent town reads on - LoT, Swishh and AlphaInsidious.
I would not strongly object to all three of them just falling over dead along with you, if such a thing were possible. If you are town, 1-2 of those are almost certainly mafia.
If you are scum, at least one of them is still probably trying to bus you.
I'm probably 60/40 on you at this point - and while I'm kind of being swayed by the blase-ish attitude you have towards things here, that's not exactly impossible to fake. I think I still want to lynch you, even if I'm less certain that you are mafia than I was even 20 posts ago or so.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
That almost makes me want to swing lynch around to LoT.
LoT posted the same sentiments as you.
================
Let's review:
* I want to lynch Voxx because he wanted to lynch LoT for the same reasons he himself posted.
* I want to lynch Voxx because more than 20% of his posts are stalling.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he'd rather lynch Eron, who he says he's slightly convicted on, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT, who he has mentioned as scumreads, but never made any attempt to push them or case them.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he said there was no alternative lynch, when he had plenty of scumreads.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he wanted to lynch LoT for the same reasons he himself posted.
* I want to lynch Voxx because more than 20% of his posts are stalling.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he'd rather lynch Eron, who he says he's slightly convicted on, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT, who he has mentioned as scumreads, but never made any attempt to push them or case them.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he said there was no alternative lynch, when he had plenty of scumreads.
Unvote, vote Voxxicus
This is nowhere near Voxx's town game (read: C&B).
But we may be too committed to the EtR pot to not move in on it. Activity in the next couple days will tell.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he wanted to lynch LoT for the same reasons he himself posted.
* I want to lynch Voxx because more than 20% of his posts are stalling.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he'd rather lynch Eron, who he says he's slightly convicted on, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT, who he has mentioned as scumreads, but never made any attempt to push them or case them.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he said there was no alternative lynch, when he had plenty of scumreads.
Unvote, vote Voxxicus
This is a pretty solid case, especially the parallels between LoT's and Vox' post regarding EtR. I'd like to hear Vox' response to it.
This is nowhere near Voxx's town game (read: C&B).
But we may be too committed to the EtR pot to not move in on it. Activity in the next couple days will tell.
You don't even mention the recent push on LoT. Where exactly do you see commitment to the EtR "pot" at this point?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Damn Seppel, I hate you
I'm all read up and ready with a Voxx case so that we can stop pursuing townies (I think both EtR and LoT are town), but you beat me to it.
Anyway, I saw that you posted a case and didn't read it so that I can bring mine unspoiled. I'll read yours after I posted.
#100: Voxx votes EtR without any reason but a quote.
#102: he is asked to explain, so he does. He uses a lot of words and phrases like "actually", "real", "say the least".
#269: he revotes EtR without decent new reasons. He's on the fence about everything else in the game.
#318: He wants to convince us not to kill him on day 1 because he'll be useful day 2.
#341-361: the heated discussion with Rick. I didn't like Voxx's question in the first place and understand Rick's reaction. Voxx blows it out of proportion while all the time adressing Rick as town. This reeks of scumbuddies taking distance.
#399: Voxx subtly tries to get the day to end.
#462: Voxx wants to hammer.
#471: This post oozes scum. He wants EtR dead while not at all sure he's scum. he wants at least 3 other people dead without having real scumreads on them.
#475: He opens himself up to jumping on a LoT wagon.
#541: 3 new people added to the heap of people that should die.
In my notes, all I have on Voxx is null and scum; I didn't find a single pro-town post.
As for why EtR is town:
His early game isn't strong. He has no opinion for a while and makes a really bad case on me. I had him pegged scum.
From post 389 onwards, I see a change in mentality. He starts to recognize his own tunneling and eventually decides he has to take a step back (#470).
#464 is the big reason why I'm pretty sure he's town: he does some good self-wagon analysis when he's sure he's only a couple of posts away from dieing.
On Lord of Tresserhorn: This is again a bad case of Low-hanging fruit. When I first read the post where he gathers all the votes from, it seemed like he was writing out my own feelings on Eron. That post made him obvtown for me. Yet many people start attacking him for it.
Let's look at his posts:
#68: misses Tom's joke. null.
#83: correct questioning of Rick and Swishh's Void votes.
#98: his reason for voting Swishh is legit.
#101: correctly wants reasoning for Voxx's naked vote
#138: his answer to RobRoy is legit.
#161: if you read this as sarcastic, as he explains should in #224, this answer is legit.
#240: badly worded, but totally makes sense when viewed from town eyes.
#315: His reasoning for jumping on EtR's wagon is legit. The rest of the post is pure newbness.
#373: he makes good observations here. Very, very town.
#407: He should've unvoted to avoid Tom's quickhammer. But scum would never post that they do not unvote, they would just not do it.
#412: not wanting to nameclaim comes from any mindset.
#433: He is overly confident in Seppel being town. The only scummy thing I can find on him.
#438: this sounds honest.
#474: the post where it all goes wrong for LoT. I have in my notes, literally: "Mimicks my own feelings. Probably town and low-hanging fruit here. Watch his wagon if it develops!". And surprise, surprise... it did!
#492: He stays calm under pressure.
unvote, vote Voxxicus
(Is this ok without the links to the posts? I don't know how to do that easily)
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
Unvote, vote Void. The way this is worded, you seem to be trying to paint LoT's decision that Seppel is town because he killed scum as a bad thing. No, Seppel is not CONFIRMED, sure. But what other conclusion should we come to for someone on D1 who killed a scum?
This all just feels like you're trying to take town points from people who earned them, is what I'm trying to say.
Until I finish a reread (which, again, is probably coming in Night, considering I've now got another game to pour over, since [GIP]), I'm probably just following Seppel around by the nose.
But I'll try and get some good stuff done today, being as it's my first night off in about a week.
This culminates with this post directed toward Eron. Your first actual message to him, after having voted for him throughout the entirety of the game. Compare it to LoT's next post:
Thing is, your wagon is a pretty decent block of 'probably towns'.
I think there's maybe three people on it that I don't have decent town reads on - LoT, Swishh and AlphaInsidious.
I would not strongly object to all three of them just falling over dead along with you, if such a thing were possible. If you are town, 1-2 of those are almost certainly mafia.
If you are scum, at least one of them is still probably trying to bus you.
I'm probably 60/40 on you at this point - and while I'm kind of being swayed by the blase-ish attitude you have towards things here, that's not exactly impossible to fake. I think I still want to lynch you, even if I'm less certain that you are mafia than I was even 20 posts ago or so.
These last few posts from EtR feel so sincere, I'm a little afraid of the outcome of this lynch. But in a sense, EtR himself is keeping my vote on him. He's right in saying that we have no other clear suspects. Certainly nobody with a great case made against them. The only thing in the past few posts from EtR that I don't like is him saying that it would be okay if I died, but I think that's just because I don't want to die. I'm not sure what my point really is here, as I've been drinking a bit tonight, but mostly I just wanted to put it out there that the last few posts from EtR are making me a bit nervous.
I was questioning his scumminess until he pegged my unvote as scummy.
Vote: EtR
And why does that make Eron more scummy than before?
I think of it more like discrediting his recent 'towntelling.'
Why would Eron willing discredit his "towntell"? Also, if you saw a "towntell", what is the towntell and why is it a "towntell"?
I hardly think it was his intention to discredit his own 'towntelling.' Are you really putting pressure here? There's a reason there's been a huge shift from an EtR lynch to LoT. Try harder.
The request for a name claim came from Seppel. Seeing as Seppel entered the game by vigging scum, and scum that nobody was looking into at the moment at that, I would say that Seppel is as close to confirmed town as we're going to get at the moment. So at this point I take a request from Seppel as a request from town.
Because Seppel killed scum you believe him to be town. While the razor does point in that direction Seppel is far from confirmed town.
Would you please list your top suspects for me?
Unvote, vote Void. The way this is worded, you seem to be trying to paint LoT's decision that Seppel is town because he killed scum as a bad thing. No, Seppel is not CONFIRMED, sure. But what other conclusion should we come to for someone on D1 who killed a scum?
This all just feels like you're trying to take town points from people who earned them, is what I'm trying to say.
I was questioning his scumminess until he pegged my unvote as scummy.
Vote: EtR
And why does that make Eron more scummy than before?
I think of it more like discrediting his recent 'towntelling.'
Why would Eron willing discredit his "towntell"? Also, if you saw a "towntell", what is the towntell and why is it a "towntell"?
You are aware it's not random that there's a shift from an EtR lynch to an LoT lynch correct?
Would you please rephrase this? If I am reading this correctly, you believe it was randomness that caused Eron to discredit his "towntell" which would mean that you don't believe Eron willing discredited his "towntell".
I was questioning his scumminess until he pegged my unvote as scummy.
Vote: EtR
And why does that make Eron more scummy than before?
I think of it more like discrediting his recent 'towntelling.'
Why would Eron willing discredit his "towntell"? Also, if you saw a "towntell", what is the towntell and why is it a "towntell"?
You are aware it's not random that there's a shift from an EtR lynch to an LoT lynch correct?
Would you please rephrase this? If I am reading this correctly, you believe it was randomness that caused Eron to discredit his "towntell" which would mean that you don't believe Eron willing discredited his "towntell".
No I'm saying Eron didn't intentionally discredit his 'towntelling,' which is the reason in votes shifting from him: his response to the perceived imminent lynched seemed genuine. I'm saying he messed it up by calling me scummy for unvoting him.
DEADLINE RULES: In the event of a deadline, a player with the plurality of the votes will result in that player's lynch (meaning if more people are not voting then voting any particular player, the day will end in a no-lynch).
So first I want to address some OOG-ish stuff. I work near 80 hour work weeks, and frequently have to leave town for a few days at a time. I probably should not be playing mafia, but I both enjoy the community here, and love the game itself. Just my activity comes in bursts, and it can be hard to summon the motivation to post through the sheer exhaustion.
What's getting labeled as 'stalling' is mostly that - it's not stalling, it's just trying to make a post to keep myself invested in the game, or it'd be extremely easy to fall into a vicious cycle where 'I'll post tomorrow' and tomorrow never comes. If people think my activity isn't where it should be to play the game, I'll replace out. But it's not indicative of my alignment, and never will be.
With that semi-rant over, I'll try to recreate the post I made...yesterday? Two days ago? I don't even know. It's been a long week.
There has been some of what I've said that's been misunderstood, and some of what I've said that I just... haven't felt the need to fully explain, because it's not relevant to the lynch I want to happen at the moment.
Contrary to what my slightly sparse posts might seem, I have been taking notes, and I do have a pretty good grasp on what I think the gamestate is. I'm going to go through the notes and explain my mindset for some of the posts people have been questioning.
This is something I do in almost every large game, and it's fairly effective.
I start the game with a list of the players.
Voxxicus
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
MandersHex
Tom
Rhand
Captain Tyzmo
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
My first actual note for the game was when Seppel replaced in: "Whee, Captain scum. Seppel is either town or a Day SK, and it ultimately doesn't matter which right now. He's not mafia."
Updated list:
Voxxicus
Seppel
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare Captain Tyzmo
Next I went back and started looking at Captain interactions to see if I could identify anyone that was likely town/scum based on them.
Lennon was the obvious first place to look: "Lennon is probbbbably town.
Potential for him to be scum getting bussed out of the gate for being obvious scum though.
Buttt I think he's likely newb town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Lennon
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare Captain Tyzmo
Next was Rhand (and EtR): "Rhand is probably town. Can't see scum jumping on their own in the manner he did. EtR also attacking Rhand makes Rand even more town - classic chainsaw defense."
This is why I've been pretty set on an EtR lynch. One of my first posts of the game noted that I did not think EtR was coming from a town mindset, and then he aggressively tunnels into someone that was attacking Captain, who flips scum. Even after the Captain flip he still tunneled into Rhand, which doesn't feel like town who is taking flips and interactions into account. It feels like scum trying to get a mislynch.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Next up is a read that I haven't made public prior to this. Because he's not someone I wanted to lynch, or someone I wanted to make wary due to knowing he was being watched closely.
Cyouni: "Cyouni is making my skin crawl.
Very..deliberate and cautious.
Extremely likely scum, but not going to pursue yet. Watching itneractions."
This was earlier in the game, and I feel a tiny bit better about Cyouni now than I did. But he's still not a town read.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Wessel was next up: "Wessel reads logical but something feels off in the way he tried to cast doubt on my EtR posts. Worth examining if EtR flips scum, but is...probbbbably town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
RobRoy: "RobRoy interaction with Captain feels semi-genuine. Hum. Okay."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
"Tom probably town due to doublevoter (and EtR pressure).
Inclined to agree that Cythare is likelytown, too."
I should note that I don't remember what I was agreeing with with regards to Cythare here. I think it was Wessel pointing out the townslip he made about number of people in scum team? Might want to reevaluate that slot later in the game, but isn't something I'm worried about now.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
"Teh JeY is probably town. Ish. Void is also probably town... with more ish."
Can't really explain the JeY read. Mix of gut and just feeling like a town mindset in some posts. Void is more solidly town now than he was then - the way people are pushing him when EtR/LoT are options is all kinds of skeevy and makes him feel better.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
Right around here is when I asked Rick_Santorum the question where I wanted him to give reads on a cluster of people. I did not have a read on him at the time, and wanted to see how he responded. Of the people in the 'unknown' category, I thought he'd be the most likely to give a response that was indicative of his alignment, and maybe help me make a decision on the alignments of the people I mentioned, too.
Ultimately while his response made me make several extremely profanity laden raging posts in my notes, I think he's solidly town. If only because scum just aren't going to be so blatant about refusing a simple request - they're more likely to over-explain reads that can't really be formed than to do what he did.
(But yeah I was very much livid after that exchange and needed a few days away from game so I didn't flip out in the thread)
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rick Santorum
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR Captain Tyzmo
This is the last list I had in my notes, and should look somewhat familiar. It's the game state I had in my mind recently and was operating off of. I thought, and still think that all of the scum are in that bottom list of 8.
Seppel made this post:
Quote from Seppel »
Rest of the scum are likely lurking.
Killjoy, Tresserhorn, et others.
I responded with:
Quote from Voxxicus »
Probably.
Those two names in particular, too.
With Alpha and Anak being other possibilities.
I didn't mention Swishh, because I'm much less sold on him. Part of that is the EtR interaction early in the thread, part of it is gut saying he's just derping town. He's still a Not Town read, but not something I feel like pursuing.
Just answering this while I see it:
Quote from Seppel »
Note that we never hear you talk about Alpha or Anak ever again.
You don't even propose alternatives:
I think this is just a difference in playstyle. I really, really don't feel the need to attack every possible scum read I have at once. I narrow the gamestate down, and pick off one at a time, re-evaluating the gamestate after every flip. Talking ourselves in circles is not productive.
So that's where I stood when I was looking at Seppel's vote analysis post.
At the time, there were 3 lynch options. EtR, LoT, and Void. I wasn't interested in trying to run someone up with like 3 days left in the day. So I just commented on the three in a somewhat stream of consciousness fashion.
I was not interested in the Void lynch mainly due to who was voting him. You interpreted that as meaning currently, when I said that while looking at your vote analysis post:
ON THE VOID WAGON: RobRoy, Killjoy
Void (2) Rick Santorum, Swishh
I think RobRoy and Rick are pretty solid town, but KillJoy and Swishh aren't town reads.
The interesting thing is this wagon:
ON THE ERON WAGON: Seppel, LoT, Voxx, Rhand, Wessel, JeY, Swish, Alpha, Rick/Megs
You called the wagon garbage, which I kinda strongly disagree with. There's only three people on there I don't think are town - LoT's early hop is not indicative of alignment considering it came right after you killed scum, and then started the EtR wagon. Also the Swish/Alpha grouping late on it is a pretty reasonable bussing cluster.
I don't have nearly as many town reads voting for LoT, and I'm not sure what that means.
ON THE LOT WAGON: Void, Alpha, Eron, Cyouni, Tom
Does it make LoT more likely town if EtR is scum? Or was it just a place they felt they could distance, due to the EtR lynch still being more likely at that point? I don't know, and would need to re-read that whole section again after we get a flip to provide better analysis.
I want to lynch EtR. I had some doubts after the appeal to emotion spiel, where it felt kind of like town resigned to his death. I'm a little more ambivalent about a LoT lynch, if only because of the cluster of iffy people that hopped on that in opposition to EtR.
Obviously I don't support my own lynch, because I'm town, and people are being dumb.
I would be okay with a Kill Joy lynch, though that's probably something I'd rather explore tomorrow, than try to run up late in the day with deadline approaching.
EtR
LoT
KillJoy
Cyouni
Anaklusmos
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
There's 3-4 scum in that grouping. You accused me of not proposing an alternative, when I don't want to propose an alternative. Someone I don't have a town read on was getting lynched, and that's good enough for me.
So pull your head out of your ass, and lynch either EtR, LoT, or KillJoy. I'm not the droid you are looking for. Or something.
My preference is EtR. KillJoy is probably second at this point, but LoT is more likely to go through. So just depends what kind of activity the game has for the next few days.
If anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to answer them. But this long, disjointed ramble is where the mindset comes from in my posts.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm not voting for you right now, but that doesn't mean I think you've been cleared.
I'm saying you barned this post from Seppel:
Quote from Seppel »
EtR wagon is garbage.
Vote LoT or Voxx.
Preferably Voxx.
In that post Seppel calls my wagon garbage, LoT or Voxx scum, and encourages you (us)to vote Voxx. You said "this" - meaning you agreed with the points in the post. So do you agree or disagree that I am scum?
I hardly think it was his intention to discredit his own 'towntelling.' Are you really putting pressure here? There's a reason there's been a huge shift from an EtR lynch to LoT. Try harder.
I felt I had a pretty coherent view on the game with EtR and LoT as scum, until Seppel posted his case on Voxxicus. Seppels point that Cyouni quoted is something that's good enough as a case on its own, and with the moved deadline I am going to take a more in-depth look at Voxx.
Can you elaborate for me how you see Me and LoT as buddies?
No I'm saying Eron didn't intentionally discredit his 'towntelling,' which is the reason in votes shifting from him: his response to the perceived imminent lynched seemed genuine. I'm saying he messed it up by calling me scummy for unvoting him.
I messed up my town telling by calling you scummy? So town should not point out what they find off about an action or comment?
Does it make LoT more likely town if EtR is scum? Or was it just a place they felt they could distance, due to the EtR lynch still being more likely at that point? I don't know, and would need to re-read that whole section again after we get a flip to provide better analysis.
I want to lynch EtR. I had some doubts after the appeal to emotion spiel, where it felt kind of like town resigned to his death. I'm a little more ambivalent about a LoT lynch, if only because of the cluster of iffy people that hopped on that in opposition to EtR.
Obviously I don't support my own lynch, because I'm town, and people are being dumb.
I would be okay with a Kill Joy lynch, though that's probably something I'd rather explore tomorrow, than try to run up late in the day with deadline approaching.
EtR
LoT
KillJoy
Cyouni
Anaklusmos
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
There's 3-4 scum in that grouping. You accused me of not proposing an alternative, when I don't want to propose an alternative. Someone I don't have a town read on was getting lynched, and that's good enough for me.
So pull your head out of your ass, and lynch either EtR, LoT, or KillJoy. I'm not the droid you are looking for. Or something.
My preference is EtR. KillJoy is probably second at this point, but LoT is more likely to go through. So just depends what kind of activity the game has for the next few days.
If anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to answer them. But this long, disjointed ramble is where the mindset comes from in my posts.
I'd like to just mention a few things here:
1. In your larger section above, which I cut out, you didn't mention KillJoy at all. Then down here is your discussion-y section you say that you'd be ok with a Kill-Joy lynch but want to leave it to tomorrow. Then finally you say that Kill-Joy is your second options. That doesn't line up.
2. This whole second half reads to me as a swerve away from LoT more then a deflection to me. The way it reads, to me at least, is that you could change my name to any other player, but the base intention is to remove scrutiny from LoT.
I did not have a solid read on you prior to your infuriating behavior in these recent posts.
I have reads of varying types on each of those players, and wanted to hear your thoughts on them to help me determine your alignment.
Saying what you think about a couple specific players is not saying that 'adds nothing to the game' and you know that.
You're just being deliberately obtuse and irritating, and yes, anti-town.
You said back then that you had reads of varying types on these players. But when you do a reread you don't have notes on any of them apart from cyouni.
How does that add up?
Double voting is fun
The GJ way path to no lynching:
@Seppel: Why do you have yourself on the Eron wagon despite your unvote?
Yep, curse trying to post that without doing a quick preview-check.
Void isn't someone I'm all that interested in. Too many people that I have scum reads on voting for him to be worth pushing through fairly quickly.
LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying. They're both scum reads, and the recent distancing feels like just that. Seppel comes in, blows Captain up, and says we're lynching Eron. An early vote on him after the reset isn't terribly indicative of alignment, considering that.
But I think I ultimately still want to lynch Eron, despite feeling slightly conflicted by his resignation.
Unless enough people want to lynch Kill Joy instead, maybe.
Might have more thoughts tomorrow, but I'm extremely tired. Has been a stupidly long day.
I spent 3 hours on it yesterday and ended at about 1/3rd of the thread.
I'll be all read up and will post my reads in 2 or 3 days from now.
Is there anything urgent I should answer meanwhile?
Hmm, looking back I don't think this is a true statement.
@Mod: Vote count please?
Because I was on it at some point. Notice how Alpha is on both Eron and LoT?
What in the world? You can't do that without explaining yourself.
So you have scumreads on... Robroy and Killjoy.
And you have scumreads on... LoT and Eron.
So, Eron, who you say you're slightly convicted on, is who you'd rather lynch, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT.
You said, "LoT is a possibility. I'd have zero problems with him and EtR both dying." This doesn't line up with your previous post, where you discount your read of Eron/LoT being scumbuddies:
Let's do a little tidbit of analysis here.
Previous to the above post, we had Eron giving up, and LoT posting this:
Your response:
So there's where you came up with this idea. Even though LoT didn't unvote Eron. Your beginning argument was somewhat stable, but it's clear from your next posts that you didn't remember what you were talking about.
But wait -- you've had these thoughts since the beginning of the game:
That's post #318 -- 12 days ago. That's after I showed up and killed Captain Tzymo, who you did not interact with at all.
Plus, check out how much you've been stalling:
For the record, you did deliver on a re-read. Your result: "Not much changes."
Really, the only notable thing you've done was have a blowout with Rick/Megs, which ended here:
1/3 of your posts in the entire game are about the above issue.
============
Note that we never hear you talk about Alpha or Anak ever again.
You don't even propose alternatives:
This culminates with this post directed toward Eron. Your first actual message to him, after having voted for him throughout the entirety of the game. Compare it to LoT's next post:
Your response:
LoT posted the same sentiments as you.
================
Let's review:
* I want to lynch Voxx because he wanted to lynch LoT for the same reasons he himself posted.
* I want to lynch Voxx because more than 20% of his posts are stalling.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he'd rather lynch Eron, who he says he's slightly convicted on, above Killjoy, Robroy, and LoT, who he has mentioned as scumreads, but never made any attempt to push them or case them.
* I want to lynch Voxx because he said there was no alternative lynch, when he had plenty of scumreads.
Unvote, vote Voxxicus
This is nowhere near Voxx's town game (read: C&B).
But we may be too committed to the EtR pot to not move in on it. Activity in the next couple days will tell.
I missed that you mentioned Seppel's analysis, but it was an off-hand comment thrown in, and you didn't explain what you liked about his analysis.
This is a pretty solid case, especially the parallels between LoT's and Vox' post regarding EtR. I'd like to hear Vox' response to it.
You don't even mention the recent push on LoT. Where exactly do you see commitment to the EtR "pot" at this point?
what happened to the points you had against him?
I am also moving the deadline back until next Monday (the 18th) in order to offer a tad more time.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Drunk Seppel says: Voxx usually has weak D1s but not even remembering his stance on current events is pathetic.
EtR (6): Lord of Tresserhorn, Voxxicus, Rhand, Wessel, Teh JeY, Rick Santorum,
Lord of Tresserhorn (6): Void, AlphaInsidious, EtR, Cyouni, Swishh, Tom
Voxxicus (1): Seppel
Void (2): Robroy, killjoy
Not Voting (3): ganderin_dan, Anaklusmos,infectiousbaloth,
With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
EtR wagon is garbage.
Vote LoT or Voxx.
Preferably Voxx.
This
Isn't this interesting?
Yet you're not voting Voxx. :/
I think Killjoy is scum and Robroy is misguided.
I'm all read up and ready with a Voxx case so that we can stop pursuing townies (I think both EtR and LoT are town), but you beat me to it.
Anyway, I saw that you posted a case and didn't read it so that I can bring mine unspoiled. I'll read yours after I posted.
#100: Voxx votes EtR without any reason but a quote.
#102: he is asked to explain, so he does. He uses a lot of words and phrases like "actually", "real", "say the least".
#269: he revotes EtR without decent new reasons. He's on the fence about everything else in the game.
#318: He wants to convince us not to kill him on day 1 because he'll be useful day 2.
#341-361: the heated discussion with Rick. I didn't like Voxx's question in the first place and understand Rick's reaction. Voxx blows it out of proportion while all the time adressing Rick as town. This reeks of scumbuddies taking distance.
#399: Voxx subtly tries to get the day to end.
#462: Voxx wants to hammer.
#471: This post oozes scum. He wants EtR dead while not at all sure he's scum. he wants at least 3 other people dead without having real scumreads on them.
#475: He opens himself up to jumping on a LoT wagon.
#541: 3 new people added to the heap of people that should die.
In my notes, all I have on Voxx is null and scum; I didn't find a single pro-town post.
As for why EtR is town:
His early game isn't strong. He has no opinion for a while and makes a really bad case on me. I had him pegged scum.
From post 389 onwards, I see a change in mentality. He starts to recognize his own tunneling and eventually decides he has to take a step back (#470).
#464 is the big reason why I'm pretty sure he's town: he does some good self-wagon analysis when he's sure he's only a couple of posts away from dieing.
On Lord of Tresserhorn: This is again a bad case of Low-hanging fruit. When I first read the post where he gathers all the votes from, it seemed like he was writing out my own feelings on Eron. That post made him obvtown for me. Yet many people start attacking him for it.
Let's look at his posts:
#68: misses Tom's joke. null.
#83: correct questioning of Rick and Swishh's Void votes.
#98: his reason for voting Swishh is legit.
#101: correctly wants reasoning for Voxx's naked vote
#138: his answer to RobRoy is legit.
#161: if you read this as sarcastic, as he explains should in #224, this answer is legit.
#240: badly worded, but totally makes sense when viewed from town eyes.
#315: His reasoning for jumping on EtR's wagon is legit. The rest of the post is pure newbness.
#373: he makes good observations here. Very, very town.
#407: He should've unvoted to avoid Tom's quickhammer. But scum would never post that they do not unvote, they would just not do it.
#412: not wanting to nameclaim comes from any mindset.
#433: He is overly confident in Seppel being town. The only scummy thing I can find on him.
#438: this sounds honest.
#474: the post where it all goes wrong for LoT. I have in my notes, literally: "Mimicks my own feelings. Probably town and low-hanging fruit here. Watch his wagon if it develops!". And surprise, surprise... it did!
#492: He stays calm under pressure.
unvote, vote Voxxicus
(Is this ok without the links to the posts? I don't know how to do that easily)
So...How do you go from this, to this:
You're last posts before today were that I'm scum and you put your vote back on me.
Why would Eron willing discredit his "towntell"? Also, if you saw a "towntell", what is the towntell and why is it a "towntell"?
What specifically has your preference on Eron over LoT?
Scum.
Why am I seeing yellow?
Seppel
I believe were better off lynching LoT toDay, then we can focus on Voxx Tomorrow.
But I'll try and get some good stuff done today, being as it's my first night off in about a week.
Why?
You didn't mention either of them in your post.
Ah. Got it.
I'm really not sure how I missed that.
I'd like to see Voxx's response first.
I've mentioned LoT in previous posts. Voxx I have not. I am barning your case on Voxx, ftr.
No, but I'm on LoT.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm not voting for you right now, but that doesn't mean I think you've been cleared.
And never lynching Void! (?)
Sucks the only options are I'm scum or suck. This is far from my first game though.
You are aware it's not random that there's a shift from an EtR lynch to an LoT lynch correct?
Would you please rephrase this? If I am reading this correctly, you believe it was randomness that caused Eron to discredit his "towntell" which would mean that you don't believe Eron willing discredited his "towntell".
No I'm saying Eron didn't intentionally discredit his 'towntelling,' which is the reason in votes shifting from him: his response to the perceived imminent lynched seemed genuine. I'm saying he messed it up by calling me scummy for unvoting him.
In the event of a deadline, a player with the plurality of the votes will result in that player's lynch (meaning if more people are not voting then voting any particular player, the day will end in a no-lynch).
The GJ way path to no lynching:
****ing forums ate my massive, massive post because it logged me out in the process.
I'll try to recreate it after I go get something to eat, but ****, I just spent an hour on that.
Otherwise, always to what I do before posting: Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C.
Drunk Seppel!? That combined with your daykill basically confirms you as town.
I'll be doing part of a re-read today, and finish it tomorrow. (when I'm at work and have all day to sit on the computer)
Also, can we just lynch Rhand or me? We're in 4 games together and it's becoming very difficult to keep my reads of him straight.
Amen to that
unvote because I don't know anything right now.
need to reread.
So first I want to address some OOG-ish stuff. I work near 80 hour work weeks, and frequently have to leave town for a few days at a time. I probably should not be playing mafia, but I both enjoy the community here, and love the game itself. Just my activity comes in bursts, and it can be hard to summon the motivation to post through the sheer exhaustion.
What's getting labeled as 'stalling' is mostly that - it's not stalling, it's just trying to make a post to keep myself invested in the game, or it'd be extremely easy to fall into a vicious cycle where 'I'll post tomorrow' and tomorrow never comes. If people think my activity isn't where it should be to play the game, I'll replace out. But it's not indicative of my alignment, and never will be.
With that semi-rant over, I'll try to recreate the post I made...yesterday? Two days ago? I don't even know. It's been a long week.
There has been some of what I've said that's been misunderstood, and some of what I've said that I just... haven't felt the need to fully explain, because it's not relevant to the lynch I want to happen at the moment.
Contrary to what my slightly sparse posts might seem, I have been taking notes, and I do have a pretty good grasp on what I think the gamestate is. I'm going to go through the notes and explain my mindset for some of the posts people have been questioning.
This is something I do in almost every large game, and it's fairly effective.
I start the game with a list of the players.
Voxxicus
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
MandersHex
Tom
Rhand
Captain Tyzmo
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
My first actual note for the game was when Seppel replaced in: "Whee, Captain scum. Seppel is either town or a Day SK, and it ultimately doesn't matter which right now. He's not mafia."
Updated list:
Voxxicus
Seppel
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Lennon
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Captain Tyzmo
Next I went back and started looking at Captain interactions to see if I could identify anyone that was likely town/scum based on them.
Lennon was the obvious first place to look: "Lennon is probbbbably town.
Potential for him to be scum getting bussed out of the gate for being obvious scum though.
Buttt I think he's likely newb town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Lennon
EtR
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rhand
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Captain Tyzmo
Next was Rhand (and EtR): "Rhand is probably town. Can't see scum jumping on their own in the manner he did. EtR also attacking Rhand makes Rand even more town - classic chainsaw defense."
This is why I've been pretty set on an EtR lynch. One of my first posts of the game noted that I did not think EtR was coming from a town mindset, and then he aggressively tunnels into someone that was attacking Captain, who flips scum. Even after the Captain flip he still tunneled into Rhand, which doesn't feel like town who is taking flips and interactions into account. It feels like scum trying to get a mislynch.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Donasdux
TeH JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
Next up is a read that I haven't made public prior to this. Because he's not someone I wanted to lynch, or someone I wanted to make wary due to knowing he was being watched closely.
Cyouni: "Cyouni is making my skin crawl.
Very..deliberate and cautious.
Extremely likely scum, but not going to pursue yet. Watching itneractions."
This was earlier in the game, and I feel a tiny bit better about Cyouni now than I did. But he's still not a town read.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
Wessel was next up: "Wessel reads logical but something feels off in the way he tried to cast doubt on my EtR posts. Worth examining if EtR flips scum, but is...probbbbably town."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
RobRoy: "RobRoy interaction with Captain feels semi-genuine. Hum. Okay."
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Lennon
Wessel
Robroy
Kill-joy
Tom
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cythare
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
"Tom probably town due to doublevoter (and EtR pressure).
Inclined to agree that Cythare is likelytown, too."
I should note that I don't remember what I was agreeing with with regards to Cythare here. I think it was Wessel pointing out the townslip he made about number of people in scum team? Might want to reevaluate that slot later in the game, but isn't something I'm worried about now.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
Teh JeY
Void
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
"Teh JeY is probably town. Ish. Void is also probably town... with more ish."
Can't really explain the JeY read. Mix of gut and just feeling like a town mindset in some posts. Void is more solidly town now than he was then - the way people are pushing him when EtR/LoT are options is all kinds of skeevy and makes him feel better.
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Rick Santorum
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
Right around here is when I asked Rick_Santorum the question where I wanted him to give reads on a cluster of people. I did not have a read on him at the time, and wanted to see how he responded. Of the people in the 'unknown' category, I thought he'd be the most likely to give a response that was indicative of his alignment, and maybe help me make a decision on the alignments of the people I mentioned, too.
Ultimately while his response made me make several extremely profanity laden raging posts in my notes, I think he's solidly town. If only because scum just aren't going to be so blatant about refusing a simple request - they're more likely to over-explain reads that can't really be formed than to do what he did.
(But yeah I was very much livid after that exchange and needed a few days away from game so I didn't flip out in the thread)
Voxxicus
Seppel
Rick Santorum
Rhand
Tom
Lennon
Wessel
Cythare
Robroy
Teh_JeY
Void
Kill-joy
Lord of Tresserhorn
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
Anaklusmos
Cyouni
EtR
Captain Tyzmo
This is the last list I had in my notes, and should look somewhat familiar. It's the game state I had in my mind recently and was operating off of. I thought, and still think that all of the scum are in that bottom list of 8.
Seppel made this post:
I responded with:
I didn't mention Swishh, because I'm much less sold on him. Part of that is the EtR interaction early in the thread, part of it is gut saying he's just derping town. He's still a Not Town read, but not something I feel like pursuing.
Just answering this while I see it:
I think this is just a difference in playstyle. I really, really don't feel the need to attack every possible scum read I have at once. I narrow the gamestate down, and pick off one at a time, re-evaluating the gamestate after every flip. Talking ourselves in circles is not productive.
So that's where I stood when I was looking at Seppel's vote analysis post.
At the time, there were 3 lynch options. EtR, LoT, and Void. I wasn't interested in trying to run someone up with like 3 days left in the day. So I just commented on the three in a somewhat stream of consciousness fashion.
I was not interested in the Void lynch mainly due to who was voting him. You interpreted that as meaning currently, when I said that while looking at your vote analysis post:
ON THE VOID WAGON: RobRoy, Killjoy
Void (2) Rick Santorum, Swishh
I think RobRoy and Rick are pretty solid town, but KillJoy and Swishh aren't town reads.
The interesting thing is this wagon:
ON THE ERON WAGON: Seppel, LoT, Voxx, Rhand, Wessel, JeY, Swish, Alpha, Rick/Megs
You called the wagon garbage, which I kinda strongly disagree with. There's only three people on there I don't think are town - LoT's early hop is not indicative of alignment considering it came right after you killed scum, and then started the EtR wagon. Also the Swish/Alpha grouping late on it is a pretty reasonable bussing cluster.
I don't have nearly as many town reads voting for LoT, and I'm not sure what that means.
ON THE LOT WAGON: Void, Alpha, Eron, Cyouni, Tom
Does it make LoT more likely town if EtR is scum? Or was it just a place they felt they could distance, due to the EtR lynch still being more likely at that point? I don't know, and would need to re-read that whole section again after we get a flip to provide better analysis.
I want to lynch EtR. I had some doubts after the appeal to emotion spiel, where it felt kind of like town resigned to his death. I'm a little more ambivalent about a LoT lynch, if only because of the cluster of iffy people that hopped on that in opposition to EtR.
Obviously I don't support my own lynch, because I'm town, and people are being dumb.
I would be okay with a Kill Joy lynch, though that's probably something I'd rather explore tomorrow, than try to run up late in the day with deadline approaching.
EtR
LoT
KillJoy
Cyouni
Anaklusmos
AlphaInsidious
Swishh
There's 3-4 scum in that grouping. You accused me of not proposing an alternative, when I don't want to propose an alternative. Someone I don't have a town read on was getting lynched, and that's good enough for me.
So pull your head out of your ass, and lynch either EtR, LoT, or KillJoy. I'm not the droid you are looking for. Or something.
My preference is EtR. KillJoy is probably second at this point, but LoT is more likely to go through. So just depends what kind of activity the game has for the next few days.
If anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to answer them. But this long, disjointed ramble is where the mindset comes from in my posts.
I'm saying you barned this post from Seppel:
In that post Seppel calls my wagon garbage, LoT or Voxx scum, and encourages you (us)to vote Voxx. You said "this" - meaning you agreed with the points in the post. So do you agree or disagree that I am scum?
My turn...What are you saying here?
Can you elaborate for me how you see Me and LoT as buddies?
I messed up my town telling by calling you scummy? So town should not point out what they find off about an action or comment?
I'd like to just mention a few things here:
1. In your larger section above, which I cut out, you didn't mention KillJoy at all. Then down here is your discussion-y section you say that you'd be ok with a Kill-Joy lynch but want to leave it to tomorrow. Then finally you say that Kill-Joy is your second options. That doesn't line up.
2. This whole second half reads to me as a swerve away from LoT more then a deflection to me. The way it reads, to me at least, is that you could change my name to any other player, but the base intention is to remove scrutiny from LoT.
You said back then that you had reads of varying types on these players. But when you do a reread you don't have notes on any of them apart from cyouni.
How does that add up?