I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Yes, the meta I had been in often had people jumping at shadows. So every little thing often got over-blown. And considering how my last game ended, it's why I've had so much trouble. The scum easily fooled us into jumping at shadows. I do not want to repeat that mistake.
[QUOTE=Captain Tzymo;/comments/10873109]
I still need to ask, what about swishh seemed to be fooling around?
Do you feel as though he wasn't?
No, it read to me as a joke. A weird joke, but still a joke. What I want to know is why a joke is enough to vote someone. It's even more minor than what I was jumping at Lennon for.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Yes, the meta I had been in often had people jumping at shadows. So every little thing often got over-blown. And considering how my last game ended, it's why I've had so much trouble. The scum easily fooled us into jumping at shadows. I do not want to repeat that mistake.
That's the answer I needed. unvote
I'm going to hop on the Anaklusmos train.
I'm still convinced that at least 1 scum is to be found on the early Lennon wagon, and his daytalk slip looks really ugly.
Captain t and alpha, what are your definitions of the word 'flailing'?
To me, it's typically a deviation from their normal posting style and/or clear desperation tactics. I really didn't see anything changing from post to post for Lennon, nor did his posting feel desperate.
I'm actually liking Teh JeY's posts so far. She's been posting a lot, and I'm not getting the feeling that she is taking much time to consider her posts before throwing them out there. That strikes me as more of a townie mindset, or a very comfortable scum. The wildcard in this is that she obviously has outside experience.
Why do you say she obviously has outside experience? I have no experience playing with her, but she does mention that she's never played before:
Forgive me, it's been never since I last played this >_>
I'm surprised it took so long for someone to actually catch/interpret that. AlphaInsidious, as I've seen referenced as simply AI, guess you're just more observant. Nice. Though, have played or not played is not entirely definitive, right? I mean, there were a few claims that I'm new to here, not Mafia.
You're right that there are different levels. Having played on a different site, for example, would make you experienced, but not used to the particular style of play on this website.
I have to say, your stream of consciousness posting is making it difficult for me to discern what you mean.
But, can you tell me why you would think RobRoy would be voting Lennon simply because he hadn't posted? Was pretty early in the game, and he wasn't the only one with low or no posts.
Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!
Umm... No idea. First thing that popped into my head, really. Decided 'why not'.
Hmm. Okay. So I'm getting that you've been quick to offer theories as they occur to you. Which does jive with your posting thus far.
The point I was making was that you had nothing to add (supposedly), but then suddenly did not long after, without pointing out the motive you claimed you wanted to see. It was the inconsistency that caught my eye, not the vote.
I'm not entirely sure I follow this. Elaborate for clarity's sake?
Oh, I read it again , I get it now. silly me. I don't know what you want me to add about this having discussed that initial post already, I already said the first post was made for the sake of making a post, of course it's inconsistent. The flak for it however has taught me a valuable lesson.
Now this is the post that a new player makes, so that meshes, at least.
Agreed that her unique posting style has made it less likely to be contrived. And I believe that she believes what she's saying.
But that doesn't make her inconsistent actions any less noteworthy.
...I thought this would make more sense now that the cat's out of the bag (me being new), but I guess not.
I don't consider inconsistency to strictly be irrelevant based on experience. But, other factors are making me reconsider your motive.
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
An update thingy; this weekend is going to involve a lot of me getting ready to move back into my dorm on Sunday and getting ready to go back to classes, so I'll be doing that and spending some last minute quality time with my mom. And once classes start... I won't have nearly as much free time but I should have enough to at least drop by once every day.
Is posting that I've read stuff and will be writing a reply to post within 24hrs something I can count on doing, or should I just write stuff and post whenever?
Because while there's new!town and new!scum, I don't have a solid enough read to either push for the lynch or draw conclusions on people pushing for their lynch.
My vote is on EtR from early in the game, which TCM had incorrect in votals, annnnnd
it's still going to be on EtR.
I think he's scum.
Part gut, part lack of town mindset in the initial post I pointed out, and part the....passive reaction to my post, where it's like he thought 'maybe if I ignore it it'll go away'.
Santorum asked what you meant by two very vague phrases. (Either Santorum is scum or not = knows you are scum or doesn't.) If he doesn't know, your response was even more vague. Vague is suspicious. I'm suspicious of scum.
If he does know you're scum, his question was more of an inside joke/attempt to peg himself as town. Now if he knows you're scum, then you know he's scum, and you can safely reply in jest or give reasons such as the ones you just have about why you're not obligated to elaborate.
Hrm. Why do all these scenarios have Void as scum?
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Why does it seem to me that anyone using any method you consider "weak" must be scum?
I've learned to take a different look at Mafia since I got to see a new perspective of this game. While being "weak" is not a scum tell on it's own there our other aspects that make being "weak" more of a mind set read. AKA a wolf in sheep's clothing.
At this point both Anak's and Lord have presented "weak" reasoning while voting for someone. Anak response was bad and for that reason my vote stays on him. Lord's responses, while being sarcastic, were also poor, but I am taking his word for the moment that his post was indeed sarcastic and I don't believe that Lord would be sarcastic in this scenario if he(she?) were scum.
Why did you put weak in quote marks above? I only did mine the same since you had.
Why do they have to be scum to use poor reasoning?
Heh! Consider yourself corrected; more simply put I said that I am in favor of believing the notion going around that Lennon is simply newb, not scummy. However, the obviously does not permanently clear his name, as I can barely think of times when someone is ever completely off hooks.
That's like when you're frustrated with your friend and they have no clue what to do and then when you're telling your friend you wanted them to apologize. Now that you told them to do it, it doesn't mean anything anymore now does it?
But if you want me to ruin such an occasion... Well, you're going to say yes anyway, so. You didn't ask 'why' as much as I would've like to have seen. It felt like you were scratching the surface repetitively.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
So the scum have daytalk?
Vote: Anaklusmos
I don't get it. Can a favor be did and have this elaborated? Anyone?
The whimsical strawberry nature of your posts aside, I'll need to get this on record. No skirting that you are simply looking for reactions. At the time you voted Cyouni, was it because you felt he was scum?
Since you say 'felt', certainly. Also I was having a lot of fun with that post, your comment made me giggle a bit :> @ strawberries.
Cyouni
A player is not scum for using poor reasoning. It's how the poor reasoning is used that makes them more likely to be scum.
While this is a clever little statement, it misses one extra little hitch. I think if you were actually trying to scumhunt, you'd do more than make me quote myself to answer you. That or you're just not paying attention, but I also don't like that since a town's job is to be observant.
By your definition, going after any lesser experienced player would be going after low hanging fruit.
Also, it isn't really an OMGUS without a vote. I argued against his reasoning of me. Voting him while saying he was wrong and scum for voting me? That would be OMGUS.
So, I'm new to the whole "OMGUS" thing - I really want to understand this bit so help me out? Basically this doesn't make much sense to me, as for what exactly you should explain... well explain it to a 5-year old, that should do it.
So your argument comes down to word choice, based on your notion that my saying he did something scummy means he has to be scum. Had I used suspicious, would you still have come at me like you have?
Suspicious and scummy feel like interchangeable words in this game, to be quite honest. Good point.
I really just don't understand it. I said it was scummy, because it was something that I could see scum doing. That doesn't mean he is scum, it means he did something that could have been perceived as scum. Do you see the difference? Not being close to lynch means that a pressure vote is okay because its not like he is close to being speedlynched at that point. It's like your trying to paint everything I do in a negative light, to make me look as bad as possible.
Remember that whole "Only seeing actions from a scum mindset?" You're doing it.
For example, I could paint this as 'trying to defend a scumbuddy' or 'trying to save someone he believes is also town'. Another good point.
---
...might've been a bit intrusive here but this particular discussion definitely caught my eye.
Day Chat? I doubt Day Chat with what I am reading from Anak, but I do find the wording from Anak bothersome. It floats around the "if" possibility, but the ending line sounds more fact than a "if" situation.
Seems like an awfully easy make-shift way to simply dismiss Anak's ENTIRE post. Adverbs.
I don't like how you're trying to divert all of the pressure here by making it seem more invisible. After reading Anak's post, I was hoping to see much more from you. If I'm forgetting some activity decrease post I'm too lazy to look for, then I apologize, but that doesn't make your current weak reply go away.
You're right that there are different levels. Having played on a different site, for example, would make you experienced, but not used to the particular style of play on this website.
For example, have a bit of college experience in argument, a passion for writing and never having seen mafia before (well, more than just the rules) this game might put me at a level to figure this out pretty quickly but seem a little awkward at the same time.
Teh JeY
I haven't had enough time online recently to respond to Anak's last post regarding my case. I will have the response by the end of the weekend though.
Cyouni
A player is not scum for using poor reasoning. It's how the poor reasoning is used that makes them more likely to be scum.
And remind me how you've distinguished that in any way whatsoever?
Let's see. You've said that Tresserhorn's responses could have been sarcastic, as he said, and that makes him possibly town. You've also said that Anak's responses make him scummy.
Neither of those have anything to do with "how poor reasoning is used", which I should also note means absolutely nothing. There's not too many ways poor reasoning can be used, all of which happen to fall under "going after low-hanging fruit".
Cyouni
A player is not scum for using poor reasoning. It's how the poor reasoning is used that makes them more likely to be scum.
While this is a clever little statement, it misses one extra little hitch. I think if you were actually trying to scumhunt, you'd do more than make me quote myself to answer you. That or you're just not paying attention, but I also don't like that since a town's job is to be observant.
*eyes narrow*
I'm pretty sure there's no answer there.
I'm getting the feeling you're throwing around filler to hide, especially given how terribly vague your responses were.
Oh, on that subject, I just remembered this even existed:
...I'm pretty disappointed to find out my responses here consist of me quoting my own posts as an adequate response. Well, except one detail about the trains. I made a note about them in my reply, but left it at that. It's vague to represent the situations which are vague - the trains are too far off into the distance to make out the details: they're silhouettes. The context is the set of train tracks in front of you. That, and it was set-up for an elaborate joke I wanted to make but probably won't at this point.
Bandwagon votes based off of vague trains. The response was so ridiculously vague I barely even noticed the two conflicted.
Rhand... actually has a pretty good point. It's a rather pointless question 0.o
I thought I'd elaborate on this - yes, it's a completely pointless question, and I was going to say something to that effect until I saw Rhand's reply.
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
swishh: do you think void and I are scumbuddies? If so, why?
I thought your response to him was inadequate for someone who should be suspicious of what I perceive to be scum.
If you're saying your vote for Void exonerates you, we're far enough from lynching for your vote to have any real weight.
This is a good catch by Void. It does feel like going after low hanging fruit.
By your definition, going after any lesser experienced player would be going after low hanging fruit.
Also, it isn't really an OMGUS without a vote. I argued against his reasoning of me. Voting him while saying he was wrong and scum for voting me? That would be OMGUS.
True, but I think this early in the game targeting a new player is an easy way for scum to get a quick mislynch.
While it's not true OMGUS without a vote, it can certainly be setting the groundwork for that vote later.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
You're scum, aren't you Rhand?
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
I will detail soon - however, your reaction to this question feels very odd. It wasn't just a simple no, it was a no with a push back to divert from the actual question.
My vote is on EtR from early in the game, which TCM had incorrect in votals, annnnnd
it's still going to be on EtR.
I think he's scum.
Part gut, part lack of town mindset in the initial post I pointed out, and part the....passive reaction to my post, where it's like he thought 'maybe if I ignore it it'll go away'.
Santorum asked what you meant by two very vague phrases. (Either Santorum is scum or not = knows you are scum or doesn't.) If he doesn't know, your response was even more vague. Vague is suspicious. I'm suspicious of scum.
If he does know you're scum, his question was more of an inside joke/attempt to peg himself as town. Now if he knows you're scum, then you know he's scum, and you can safely reply in jest or give reasons such as the ones you just have about why you're not obligated to elaborate.
Hrm. Why do all these scenarios have Void as scum?
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Hmm... as much as I'd love to make a certain reference going along with my fun little trains example, it's not there yet! >_<
Oh look, another bold accusation! EtR, could you elaborate on what you consider worthy of a vote, then? Without voting, how are you drawing pressure?
I guess something actually scummy. I wasn't trying to apply pressure, I was just interested. I'm getting more newer player vibes then scum vibes so I was curious by what he meant.
Of course, darling. But, "if you want something done right, do it yourself" - if you want actual results, provoke them!
I like this post as it picks up on something that I didn't notice, but I have a town lean on Teh JeY at this time.
I understand why you were not voting tj, but that wasn't my point.
What I noticed was that you have other demands from other people than from yourself.
I don't like how you use the low postcount of your accusers in your defense.
Besides being irrelevant to the accusations themselves, the game had barely started.
Sorry for the gender-thing
Don't ever edit you posts here, the mod will kill you. We don't mind the double posts
Backing up his previous vote and statements against JeY but then there is the more OOG stuff which add depth but don't really help. Arguably the "don't edit the posts" thing isn't fluff, but it can also be a way to gain a little bit of helpful town credit.
Did I misunderstand something then? It's possible, I am not native english
You were talking about how people without many previous posts were bringing things up.
Clarification from a previous post. Not really anything here.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
Unvote from what to me was a weak vote in the first place on someone who's posting style is very different then the normal style around here. Teh JeY is someone that I see could easily be run up fairly quickly. When a wagon doesn't move, scum will look in another direction. In this case, Rhand has moved on to Captain Tzymo.
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyse, but you are analysing it.
A simple defense post. Nothing that you can really take away from this post.
So your argument is that my push on Lennon is bad, because although he's posting fluff, he's posting fluff?
[B]You were asking him no questions whatsoever in the post you voted him.
If you want to push someone, you have to give him things to respond to.[/B]
My argument is that you voted him for bad reasons without inquiring further.
The bolded of this post is a hypocrisy. You can see in the post above that Rhand votes CT without asking him questions or giving him much to respond to.
I'm going to call this a nothing post...Or better yet a busy work post. It gives the appearance of scum hunting when it actually doesn't add anything to the game.
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
@rick: my first game is unseen university. That started at about the same time as I replaced into innistrad. I have also replaced into the vanilla mini 2.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Can't call this a fluff post, because it is in response to a direct question, but again there is nothing that this is adding to this game.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Again, this is in response to our conversation. Rhand does throw some additional information in here about his vote on Captain T, but then generalizes it by saying "and everyone else" leaving him the option of voting for any of those people if a case presents itself.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
You're scum, aren't you Rhand?
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Here's that jumpy post that I talked about. The reaction just doesn't read well.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Yes, the meta I had been in often had people jumping at shadows. So every little thing often got over-blown. And considering how my last game ended, it's why I've had so much trouble. The scum easily fooled us into jumping at shadows. I do not want to repeat that mistake.
That's the answer I needed.
[B]unvote[/B]
I'm going to hop on the Anaklusmos train.
I'm still convinced that at least 1 scum is to be found on the early Lennon wagon, and his daytalk slip looks really ugly.
[B]Vote: Anaklusmos[/B]
Here we have Rhand unvoting while claiming "that's the answer I needed." The answer provided by Captain T here isn't even in response to what his original reason for voting Captain T was. We also now have Rhand moving his vote again due to a day talk slip that looks really ugly, which in fact, might not be a slip at all.
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
See above.
Spoilered PBPA of Rhand. Overall, my reasons for thinking Rhand is scum are:
Fluff posts - approx 8 of his 24 are RVS or OOG (avatar, sig, etc)
Busy work posts - there are several posts that appear to be doing something but in fact don't add anything to the game.
Weak voting reasons for two people that could become easy wagons.
A weak unvote on Captain T that had nothing to do with his original vote reasoning.
His over reaction to my "Are you scum" question.
[B]Vote Rhand[/B]
Hmm... as much as I'd love to make a certain reference going along with my fun little trains example, it's not there yet! >_<
Oh look, another bold accusation! EtR, could you elaborate on what you consider worthy of a vote, then? Without voting, how are you drawing pressure?
I guess something actually scummy. I wasn't trying to apply pressure, I was just interested. I'm getting more newer player vibes then scum vibes so I was curious by what he meant.
Of course, darling. But, "if you want something done right, do it yourself" - if you want actual results, provoke them!
I like this post as it picks up on something that I didn't notice, but I have a town lean on Teh JeY at this time.
So it's a good post but I shouldn't have made it because you have a town lean?
I understand why you were not voting tj, but that wasn't my point.
What I noticed was that you have other demands from other people than from yourself.
I don't like how you use the low postcount of your accusers in your defense.
Besides being irrelevant to the accusations themselves, the game had barely started.
Sorry for the gender-thing
Don't ever edit you posts here, the mod will kill you. We don't mind the double posts
Backing up his previous vote and statements against JeY but then there is the more OOG stuff which add depth but don't really help. Arguably the "don't edit the posts" thing isn't fluff, but it can also be a way to gain a little bit of helpful town credit.
The OOG stuff is a response to Teh JeY. It's not more OOG stuff: it's the first out-of-RVS OOG stuff. Did you have a scum read on me from this at that time?
Did I misunderstand something then? It's possible, I am not native english
You were talking about how people without many previous posts were bringing things up.
Clarification from a previous post. Not really anything here.
[B]unvote[/B] Teh JeY. I think I misread her enthousiasm for nervousness.
The pressure didn't bring her off balance. The posting of her whole thought process makes what she types very hard to fake.
I don't like the votes on lennon. The noobcard is not a scumtell. A town noob has just as many reasons to say he has no experience as a scum noob.
Captain Tzymo is quick to "gotcha" him for that and adds that lennon is refusing to give content, clearly ignoring lennon's next post where he says he is suspicious of swishh.
[B]vote: captain tzymo[/vote]
Unvote from what to me was a weak vote in the first place on someone who's posting style is very different then the normal style around here. Teh JeY is someone that I see could easily be run up fairly quickly. When a wagon doesn't move, scum will look in another direction. In this case, Rhand has moved on to Captain Tzymo.
I unvoted when I saw that it was her posting style and not scummish nervousness. Why should I leave my vote on someone that I think is town? Because that is what you say I should've done if I were town.
You think "But if i was too vote it would be for swishh because he seems to fool around alot which might mean something" is content? He fence-sits, and then says that swishh is fooling around. How? How is swishh fooling around? I provided quotes of Lennon's, showing his weak play. And the noob card is just icing on the cake.
Yes, I do think it's content. You say he gives nothing to analyse, but you are analysing it.
A simple defense post. Nothing that you can really take away from this post.
So your argument is that my push on Lennon is bad, because although he's posting fluff, he's posting fluff?
[B]You were asking him no questions whatsoever in the post you voted him.
If you want to push someone, you have to give him things to respond to.[/B]
My argument is that you voted him for bad reasons without inquiring further.
The bolded of this post is a hypocrisy. You can see in the post above that Rhand votes CT without asking him questions or giving him much to respond to.
That's not true. CT has things to respond to. I just didn't put question marks.
I'm going to call this a nothing post...Or better yet a busy work post. It gives the appearance of scum hunting when it actually doesn't add anything to the game.
1. I understand the power. I was wondering if having 2 votes clears Tom.
This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
Why exactly is it that a townie should not be interested in wether other people are town?
@rick: my first game is unseen university. That started at about the same time as I replaced into innistrad. I have also replaced into the vanilla mini 2.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Can't call this a fluff post, because it is in response to a direct question, but again there is nothing that this is adding to this game.
Yes there is. I needed clarification for the fruit expression to understand an important part of the game.
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Basically, low hanging fruit is the easiest one to pick. In this case, I mean that if Captain T is scum, it appears that he is going after what would be the easiest mislynch.
I see. I share that idea on captain t (and everyone else who is voting for lennon for that matter).
I don't see it on void voting for Anak. How is that an easy mislynch? Easy implies that the wagon will gather votes without too much pushing, right?
Again, this is in response to our conversation. Rhand does throw some additional information in here about his vote on Captain T, but then generalizes it by saying "and everyone else" leaving him the option of voting for any of those people if a case presents itself.
You might have noticed that in the post where I voted for CT, I said I don't like the vote[B]s[/B] on Lennon. That did include Anak and double-voter Tom. I was at that point convinced that there's at least 1 scum on that wagon. And I still am.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Busy work
The flailing question got me nowhere, but the guilty until proven innocent did.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
You're scum, aren't you Rhand?
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Here's that jumpy post that I talked about. The reaction just doesn't read well.
I explained this. I asked these questions because I'm wary of you for asking that. And you conveniently neglected to give me my answer.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later.
[B]Unvote[/B]
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
Yes, the meta I had been in often had people jumping at shadows. So every little thing often got over-blown. And considering how my last game ended, it's why I've had so much trouble. The scum easily fooled us into jumping at shadows. I do not want to repeat that mistake.
That's the answer I needed.
[B]unvote[/B]
I'm going to hop on the Anaklusmos train.
I'm still convinced that at least 1 scum is to be found on the early Lennon wagon, and his daytalk slip looks really ugly.
[B]Vote: Anaklusmos[/B]
Here we have Rhand unvoting while claiming "that's the answer I needed." The answer provided by Captain T here isn't even in response to what his original reason for voting Captain T was. We also now have Rhand moving his vote again due to a day talk slip that looks really ugly, which in fact, might not be a slip at all.
The answer shows he's honest. His explanation about how he looked at Lennon in a "guilty until proven otherwise" manner is true. He's probably town.
And again, I don't see a pro-town point in keeping my vote on someone who I think is town. I stated before that I think the Lennon train has scum on it. That scum is probably Anaklusmos.
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
Spoilered PBPA of Rhand. Overall, my reasons for thinking Rhand is scum are:
Fluff posts - approx 8 of his 24 are RVS or OOG (avatar, sig, etc)
Busy work posts - there are several posts that appear to be doing something but in fact don't add anything to the game.
Weak voting reasons for two people that could become easy wagons.
A weak unvote on Captain T that had nothing to do with his original vote reasoning.
His over reaction to my "Are you scum" question.
[B]Vote Rhand[/B]
You found something scummy about his post, but don't believe him to be scum?
Is it only possible for scum to do scummy things?
I know what you're getting at. But because of the experience level I hold you at I will find the simplest of ways to find a mind set read on you. Your answers so far have not been satisfactory to me.
I think your use of the word “scummy” is inaccurate in the context. Maybe “suspicious” would have been better since you don't believe him to be scum although I don't know how truthful you are being at this point.
So your argument comes down to word choice, based on your notion that my saying he did something scummy means he has to be scum. Had I used suspicious, would you still have come at me like you have?
If I had seen suspicious, then yes I would have over looked the post as I thought suspicious would be the accurate word choice. I believe you to be a better than average Mafia player and therefore I look at any possible scum tell from any better than average Mafia player, whether good or bad, as a chance to get a better read on that player as mentioned above.
The fact that you used the word “scummy” but don't believe him to be scum paints Lennon into a more negative light than “suspicious” would have. What does not being close to lynch have to do with going after a newb player? It's like your trying to subtlety trying to throw in an excuse that has no real bearing on the discussion at hand.
I really just don't understand it. I said it was scummy, because it was something that I could see scum doing. That doesn't mean he is scum, it means he did something that could have been perceived as scum. Do you see the difference? Not being close to lynch means that a pressure vote is okay because its not like he is close to being speedlynched at that point. It's like your trying to paint everything I do in a negative light, to make me look as bad as possible.
Remember that whole "Only seeing actions from a scum mindset?" You're doing it.
Now you're slinging mud at me. I've acknowledged that there could have been a town mind set present, but you failed to show it in your post. I outlined your post with an explanation on why. Then I went further into the analysis showing how your post could be coaching of a scum buddy. The coaching aspect doesn't hold much weight until we see a flip from you.
I'm the only one seeing your vote and reasoning as scummy? Granted Wessel and Eron did not out right call you scum they still thought the observation good enough to comment on and agree with to an extent. See below:
You could have checked that on your own to verify whether other people agreed with you. By posting that, are you trying to rally other people with you, by showing that you have some support from other people? Or are you calling my attention to the fact that they commented their support for you? Both? Well, if its the second one, I'm fully aware that they said that. However, it was one line comments with some agreement, not a ton to discuss there. You have been posting reasoning, which is why I have been responding to you.
Smear it in there, Anak, it's okay.
I was not by any means trying to “drag” anyone in for support. The observation made here is that you making accusations that are not true.
Now your saying you did read those comments which makes your first statement about “no one else seeing it as scummy” contradictory.
Please answer the question about whether or not you believe yourself be to low hanging fruit or not and why.
What reaction(s) were you expecting to get from Lennon?
Expecting? I wasn't sure, because I could see that response coming from both town and scum, under the right circumstances, so I was hoping to get a response out of him that would help indicate his alignment.
I understand your line of thought to obtain a better read, but what you originally posted here:
Experienced player != good player. I wanted to pressure him to see how he responded to it. Doesn't mean I went about that in the best way, but if I had given a townie rationale for that, then he would be able to float my townie reasoning for what he did, and the whole looking for reactions thing would have been rendered fruitless.
Emphasis mine. Tells me that you were that you as least had some expectations. I know that looking =/= expecting, but the word choices within the bolded has me believing that you did think of a few possible reactions prior to the response.
I only commented on your lurking because of Basic #59 not because of your play here. I understand having a more lurky playing style since RL has changed how post recently,
Not sure if you are aware, but I haven't played in ~7 months. My playstyle has always been sort of this way, RL hasn't changed anything, I just needed a break. I was trying to explain my style to you, but you're right I was over-defensive there. Like I said, long break, it makes you a bit rusty, and jumpy, on your game back.
Your reasoning here makes the most sense on why you might be rusty or jumpy. This does bring up the fact that you are aware of jumpiness and/or rustiness. I'm never a big fan of self-awareness in Mafia. More so coming from my top suspect.
Do you believe possible that Lennon calmed down because your post where you voted him?
Because of? No, I don't think he did it because of my vote, I think he did it because he had nothing to be afraid of from it, and reacted calmly to it. That means that he didn't have to be afraid of anything, and being new, that means that he is more likely to be town, as new scum are worried about trying not to look like scum. It made him look like he has a clear conscience.
I didn't say that your vote was the reason for Lennon's behavioral change. I said your post could be considering coaching depending on your flip and only then will that information be brought into light more.
At this point it will best to agree to disagree on this situation until we see a flip from either you or Lennon.
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
I already commented on this in a previous post about your slip here. And, yes, I do believe it possible for the two of you to both be scum. I'll be more sure once we get a flip from either you.
If Anak flips scum, then Lennon is a likely scum buddy. Lennon's flip thus far has no bearing on Anak's alignment.
Then you comment on swishh in a passive way without giving much explanation beyond “Hey, look at what swishh is doing now compared to the beginning. This change in behavior makes swishh look more town to me.”
It was a comment I noticed as I browsed through the thread. I don't understand what you are trying to get at here.
I found it suspicious that you had such a lack luster take on swishh taking in consideration the amount of talking you did with Lennon to consider him town. You didn't post a quote from swishh or made mention of a post of his. You plainly said “swishh is looking more town.” (Probably a bad paraphrase, but you get the point I am getting at). Should you flip scum, then I believe swishh to be a strong a town read.
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
So the scum have daytalk?
Vote: Anaklusmos
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
Cyouni
If this post didn't answer your question(s), then I am struggling to find the words that would help me get my point across about the poor reasoning.
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
I believe your post changed how Lennon was reacting and now that you have unvote Lennon makes me believe the two of you are know more about this game than the rest of the town.
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
So the scum have daytalk?
Vote: Anaklusmos
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
Swing and a miss.
Anak specifically said "if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread." Doesn't sound like a mason chat to me.
You also both call it a slip and then waffle, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Anak specifically said "if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread." Doesn't sound like a mason chat to me.
You also both call it a slip and then waffle, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.
I was only entertaining the idea that it could be a Mason chat so that others could see my thoughts. I did not say that what Anak referenced is a Mason Chat. I believe that Anak referred to the scum chat and possibly outed Lennon as his scum buddy in the progress. I may have made that unclear with how I worded my post.
Your statements actually just do not add up, void.
Things you have stated: 1. You think Anak is likely scum based on the slip I highlighted. 2. You think I am potentially his buddy.
Quote from void »
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended ) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
This paragraph does not make sense to me. You're saying that I "jumped to a conclusion" about the scum, but then you immediately try to say that I'm scum for doing so?
Let me think about the implications of doing this. If you legitimately think I'm jumping to conclusions, it would make me a townie from your perspective. Scum wouldn't be jumping to conclusions about the scum's communication methods: they'd know. So, it doesn't follow that you think I'm jumping to conclusions and then saying I'm scum for it.
It would potentially make sense if you think that Anak is town and I am scum trying to latch onto an easy case (something you hinted at when you pointed out that I didn't vote him), but you didn't say that. You have stated that you think Anak is scum. You have also stated that you think I am his buddy, though you worked enough weasel words into that one that there's room for you to try to back out of it.
I cannot think of a town mindset for your recent actions.
Back from convention, still trying to locate my brain amidst the sleep deprivation. It just took me three tries to spell "deprivation". Will try to post content when more awake.
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
Noting down that you didn't deny diverting or panicking.
And your second question's completely redundant. If either of the first two are true, then he automatically has a pro-town motive. That means that the first question was asked with that in mind. The second question automatically becomes irrelevant as soon as the first is asked.
Oh, and "what makes you think that" isn't "are you fishing for reactions".
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
Cyouni
If this post didn't answer your question(s), then I am struggling to find the words that would help me get my point across about the poor reasoning.
You just declared one person scum and another town for doing the exact same thing. Immediately following that, you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line from Anak (which was your argument for why Santorum was scum), before stating that you believed it referenced a scumchat.
Backing up his previous vote and statements against JeY but then there is the more OOG stuff which add depth but don't really help. Arguably the "don't edit the posts" thing isn't fluff, but it can also be a way to gain a little bit of helpful town credit.
The OOG stuff is a response to Teh JeY. It's not more OOG stuff: it's the first out-of-RVS OOG stuff. Did you have a scum read on me from this at that time?
I think it adds to my scum read on you, yes. It is avoidance of real issues that require an opinion.
Oh my god, I am sorry lol
That will teach me for ordering sigs at the dissapointing signatures inc.
I will go spoiler it right away
More about the sig. Not scummy on it's own because it was it response to a request, but it does continue a trend of "nothing to see here" style posts.
"Nothing to see here" style posts that you conveniently all take out of RVS.
Because you have a lot of posts that doing really add anything of value to the thread. It really feels like you are avoiding putting anything concrete into the thread.
I unvoted when I saw that it was her posting style and not scummish nervousness. Why should I leave my vote on someone that I think is town? Because that is what you say I should've done if I were town.
No, it isn't what I said, and this is a weak hand wave of a legitimate point.
[/quote=Eron]This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
Why exactly is it that a townie should not be interested in wether other people are town?[/quote]
This is how I got caught in Mean Girls Mafia. I was town hunting as scum and not scum hunting. Town hunt scum not town.
Quote from Rhand »
Quote from Eron »
Quote from Rhand »
@etr: can you explain what you mean with the fruit thing?
Can't call this a fluff post, because it is in response to a direct question, but again there is nothing that this is adding to this game.
Yes there is. I needed clarification for the fruit expression to understand an important part of the game.
Yes, that's fair. I agree that you needed to ask the question.
Here we have Rhand unvoting while claiming "that's the answer I needed." The answer provided by Captain T here isn't even in response to what his original reason for voting Captain T was. We also now have Rhand moving his vote again due to a day talk slip that looks really ugly, which in fact, might not be a slip at all.
The answer shows he's honest. His explanation about how he looked at Lennon in a "guilty until proven otherwise" manner is true. He's probably town. And again, I don't see a pro-town point in keeping my vote on someone who I think is town. I stated before that I think the Lennon train has scum on it. That scum is probably Anaklusmos.
But just above you said Captain T still had questions to answer.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
Yes I think you are scum. My motive for asking the question was to guage your reacation. I believe that is pro-town.
Backing up his previous vote and statements against JeY but then there is the more OOG stuff which add depth but don't really help. Arguably the "don't edit the posts" thing isn't fluff, but it can also be a way to gain a little bit of helpful town credit.
The OOG stuff is a response to Teh JeY. It's not more OOG stuff: it's the first out-of-RVS OOG stuff. Did you have a scum read on me from this at that time?
I think it adds to my scum read on you, yes. It is avoidance of real issues that require an opinion.
I asked you if this gave you a scum read on me at that time.
Oh my god, I am sorry lol
That will teach me for ordering sigs at the dissapointing signatures inc.
I will go spoiler it right away
More about the sig. Not scummy on it's own because it was it response to a request, but it does continue a trend of "nothing to see here" style posts.
"Nothing to see here" style posts that you conveniently all take out of RVS.
Because you have a lot of posts that doing really add anything of value to the thread. It really feels like you are avoiding putting anything concrete into the thread.
Count the non-RVS useless posts please. There aren't that many.
And those that do exist are in response to someone.
I unvoted when I saw that it was her posting style and not scummish nervousness. Why should I leave my vote on someone that I think is town? Because that is what you say I should've done if I were town.
No, it isn't what I said, and this is a weak hand wave of a legitimate point.
What is that legitimate point you have? I don't see it.
This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
Why exactly is it that a townie should not be interested in wether other people are town?
This is how I got caught in Mean Girls Mafia. I was town hunting as scum and not scum hunting. Town hunt scum not town.
I am not hunting town. Tom was one of my suspects for being on the early Lennon wagon, and I wanted to know if there was a point in pursuing that lead.
I explained this. I asked these questions because I'm wary of you for asking that. And you conveniently neglected to give me my answer.
The whole PBP was an answer...I asked because I thought you were and now I've outlined why.
Have you? I defended myself against every 'point' you made, and your answer is every time that I'm being overly defensive. If I don't need to defend myself on those points, then you don't have any, right?
Here we have Rhand unvoting while claiming "that's the answer I needed." The answer provided by Captain T here isn't even in response to what his original reason for voting Captain T was. We also now have Rhand moving his vote again due to a day talk slip that looks really ugly, which in fact, might not be a slip at all.
The answer shows he's honest. His explanation about how he looked at Lennon in a "guilty until proven otherwise" manner is true. He's probably town. And again, I don't see a pro-town point in keeping my vote on someone who I think is town. I stated before that I think the Lennon train has scum on it. That scum is probably Anaklusmos.
But just above you said Captain T still had questions to answer.
He had questions to answer at the time I wrote that post.
He answered them.
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
Yes I think you are scum. My motive for asking the question was to guage your reacation. I believe that is pro-town.
Your intentions weren't clear at the time of your question.
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Void, here you have Anak, Lennon and Rick Santorum as scum. Who else would you peg as their buddies? Finding all of the scum Day 1 would be awesome.
Suddenly, a large, muscular human being with long blonde flowing hair and wearing a karate gi floats down into the center of the crowd, blinding them with his glowing aura.
His voice booms from all directions, "I am Hitler, creator of all that is known, and slayer of evil. Far too long has it been since I have restored balance to my world."
Hitler grabs his sword, God's *****, and holds it high.
"Enough! Captain Tzymo, you are dead!"
Execute Captain Tzymo
Hitler lowers his blade with tremendous speed, slicing Tzymo in half.
Everyone remains in shock of what has happened. Blood dissipates from Hitler's blade as he sheathes it. Then, he floats back toward the sky. It is evident now that he provides the world's daylight.
I'm just going to guess if legit, it was from the sheer wrongness of that last post.
That's just such a completely out-of-the-blue suck-up post that I really can't describe as anything but wrong. And suck-up's not even describing it right.
@Wessel: What makes EtR scum as opposed to tunnel-visioning?
So now you think that both of us are scum? I could have found his reaction to be more townie, and have unvoted him as such. Why specifically is that coaching, especially since if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread?
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
You're scum, aren't you Rhand?
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Please tell us what you believe the one answer to be.
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
I dislike the fact that you are defending Anak instead of waiting for Anak to defend himself. I also dislike the fact that you are both defending Anak and attacking RS by labelling him as Anak's scumbuddy. I am starting to be on-board with the "lynch Void" wagon.
Suddenly, a large, muscular human being with long blonde flowing hair and wearing a karate gi floats down into the center of the crowd, blinding them with his glowing aura.
His voice booms from all directions, "I am Hitler, creator of all that is known, and slayer of evil. Far too long has it been since I have restored balance to my world."
Hitler grabs his sword, God's *****, and holds it high.
"Enough! Captain Tzymo, you are dead!"
Execute Captain Tzymo
Hitler lowers his blade with tremendous speed, slicing Tzymo in half.
Everyone remains in shock of what has happened. Blood dissipates from Hitler's blade as he sheathes it. Then, he floats back toward the sky. It is evident now that he provides the world's daylight.
I really hope that we have no more replacements this game... but I can't feel sad about this one.
I have been thinking about what the others said about your play and slept on it. I believe I've been tunneling you. I've been operating on a "guilty until proven innocent" principle which is terrible, since there's about 3/4ths of the town that are innocent. Looking at you from an "innocent until proven guilty" view, your posts read extremely new player. I can't be positive you're not scum, but that doesn't mean I need to tunnel you, since if you are scum, you'll slip up later. Unvote
Do you typically start from a "guilty until proven innocent" principle when judging people?
You're scum, aren't you Rhand?
No, what makes you think that?
How would asking someone that help us in any way? There's only 1 answer to that question.
Please tell us what you believe the one answer to be.
After many days of discussion, seemingly going on forever, a man with a fine powdered whig walks up to Captain Tyzmo.
Seppel: "I don't like the way you carry yourself around here. You sound like a king, and a believer in controlling your country. Much like the same man I fought in my own time."
Captain Tyzmo: "Are you joking, American dummy? I was one of the prime fighters against Communism, the evil of our time. China fell to that pretender, Mao-ZeDong and took my beloved country into the Communist evil.
Seppel: "What a joke. It doesn't matter what you tell me. I have read many men before you. I knew Arnold was a traitor, I knew King George was corrupt. Now, all of history will know the true evil that you are.
Captain Tyzmo was Chiang Kai-shek (Mafia Goon)
Captain Tyzmo, You are Chiang Kai-shek (October 31, 1887 – April 5, 1975)
You war against Mao Ze Dong for control of China ended up as an overall failure. Whether because your army was ill-trained, or the communists were poorly trained, Dong eventually controlled the mainland of China, while you controlled the island of Taiwan. What few know is that your corruption with the use of US weapons and money was the true reason for your failure. Today, you are here to take back your country, and rid communism once and for all.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player. During the night, you can decide to kill a player at night.
VOTE COUNTS HAVE BEEN RESET! With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.
Wow. Who else but Seppel? *Sitcom jingle*
I was just posting to check in quickly since I'm running to work. That's quite the entrance!
I should have a longer post up by Wednesday night.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Anaklusmos is posting aggressively (#119). Weak follow-up with vote sticking = town, back off or full aggression = scum.
@Wessel: #169: Why no vote on Anaklusmos in this post?
Captain Tzymo is probably Iso and probably scum. What is up with that hyperaggressive vote on Lennon? Scum. #218 is so fencesitty it isn't even funny. He pulled this in Star Trek DS9 also.
#175 (Anaklusoms): I like Anaklusmos's reasoning here. But I don't remember him making such large posts. Potential scumWoD syndrome. Need more content.
@Cyouni: Are you tired of being town?
#219 is RobRoy being town.
By extension of RobRoy being town and Iso being scum, Lennon is town.
Swishh seems kinda town from #223
Cythare is town unless there's cause to believe that this game only has a 3-man scumteam.
Wessel is deducing things well in #230. Hopefully he's not a SK this time.
Lord of Tresserhorn or Load of Dresserporn???
The JeY is really really probably town.
same reasoning for the really really applies to swishh
#87: EtR sounds so weird here.
#89: Void's posts have sounded so fake and I'm calling him out now since there's a bunch of fakery in this post. Where are his requests going? I've seen no actual analyzation or conclusions made so far.
I like Rick in #90.
#95: You are both overwhelmingly town. Rick for stonewall reactions, and Swishh for using his vote in a way that is nearly impossible for scum to do. Scum want people to get lynched, and this isn't a vote to push toward a lynch, and it's going to attract attention to him - another thing scum don't want.
#100: I got the same vibe from EtR's post.
#102: Good Voxx. Town Voxx.
#98: Dresserporn sounds fake.
#103: Tom makes a good vote.
Swishh's #122 is a contradiction - why hesitant to unvote when your vote is meaningless?
Compare EtR's statements:
* I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
* Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
...and this is fake because Swishh posted between these two posts and Eron didn't follow up on it.
* He had to answer. The attention was squarely on him. If he refused to answer, I would have reason to vote then.
Answer what? He didn't respond to the question of why he was hesitant to vote void, and you provided none.
#186: Rhand asks if scum double voters exist. Not a scum question the way it's worded.
#209: Tzymo I mean Iso backs out of his previous assessment of Lennon in the oddest way possible.
In-depth read of Void returns a town mindset. Aggravating.
EtR's case on Rhand is not at all like his townEtR case in #1408, and the rest of this sentence can't be said for a few months.
Rhand's reply to the case is completely sensical. I don't see how EtR could continue this attack.
I expect the mafia to try to push toward Void.
Tziso doesn't respond to EtR at all. Oh look he's going after Void.
#229 (Killjoy): Good analysis, but the mention of a third party bugs me SO HARD.
----------------------------------
Town (may need to double check these with Iso's flip) TJ (innocent posting)
Voxx (good but where are you bro)
Swishh (not scum motivated)
RobRoy (goodposting)
Lennonmint (Iso attack)
Seppel (hitler)
Town with stipulations: Wessel (plz don't be SK)
Cythare (3-man scumteam comment)
Cyouni (emulating his towngame; gotta make sure he's actually town though)
Tom (double voter)
Rhand (asked if doublevoters could be scum; not scum if tom is town, acting like Micah when he's town; totally town if EtR is scum)
Void (terribleposting, but emulating his towngame)
Rick (goodposting, but I don't like his targets)
Undecided: Anaklusmos (#253 has that infamous slip, but I can't find anything else that points strongly to town or scum. He's just speaking logically.)
Cannot be read due to extremely low content: Alpha
Killjoy
Likely scum: Load of Dresserporn (has only talked about swishh, but then got the flu and disappeared for a week)
Wow. Who else but Seppel? *Sitcom jingle*
I was just posting to check in quickly since I'm running to work. That's quite the entrance!
I should have a longer post up by Wednesday night.
It takes a kill to get you to post?
You've been gone for 4 days and conveniently you post after the daykill has gone through. How's it feel to get PM notification that your buddy died?
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
EtR]Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
And furthermore, I don't see these 2 posts jiving here from EtR. From starting your response to Vox with "Hmmm", it stood out as you being careful, and then you go on to say you didn't think it was worthy of a vote.
But I see your statement about not wanting to pile on "at this point" to mean that you didn't vote only because it would be seen as piling on, not because you didn't think it was unwarranted.
That's your last bit of analysis (on the 17th) other than talking with TJ for your remaining two posts and dropping a question to Tzymo that went nowhere.
This is a bizarre release of pressure from Eron, who is so obviously scum now that he needs to be lynched now, no questions asked. You should know better than to think that everything makes sense in these Eron quotes.
Wow. Who else but Seppel? *Sitcom jingle*
I was just posting to check in quickly since I'm running to work. That's quite the entrance!
I should have a longer post up by Wednesday night.
It takes a kill to get you to post?
You've been gone for 4 days and conveniently you post after the daykill has gone through. How's it feel to get PM notification that your buddy died?
You also welcomed me in your previous post.
Ah, so apparently is has been too long since we've last played. You've forgotten that 4 days absences from me are exceedingly common. As in, say, the very last game I played.
I planned to make a check-in post before I took my pre-work shower, and now came out to see your latest post. I can't help the timing.
I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
EtR]Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
And furthermore, I don't see these 2 posts jiving here from EtR. From starting your response to Vox with "Hmmm", it stood out as you being careful, and then you go on to say you didn't think it was worthy of a vote.
But I see your statement about not wanting to pile on "at this point" to mean that you didn't vote only because it would be seen as piling on, not because you didn't think it was unwarranted.
That's your last bit of analysis (on the 17th) other than talking with TJ for your remaining two posts and dropping a question to Tzymo that went nowhere.
This is a bizarre release of pressure from Eron, who is so obviously scum now that he needs to be lynched now, no questions asked. You should know better than to think that everything makes sense in these Eron quotes.
You will be lynched Day 2.
By release of pressure, you mean what? You've obviously misread my post, which is calling out the fact that ETR was being inconsistent, and also self-conscious with his "piling on" comment.
And now, if you don't mind, I'd like to not be late for my shift.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Hey everyone, sorry for the extended absence. Sickness is bad, but Israeli healthcare is often worse.
Things to comment on:
Obviously, Captain flipping scum changes things. I'm not well versed enough in mafia, and more specifically, in behavior analysis to really know how to even begin to react to someone dying, and what their alignment then allows us to conclude about other players.
Something I can be sure of, however, is how depressingly bad EtR's case on Rhand is. I suppose it could just be a case of really awful tunnel vision, and EtR really does think Rhand is scum, and is trying too hard to justify that, but to me it seems more that EtR is doing his(?) best to find anything at all to convince everyone to lynch Rhand. It looks to me as if EtR is just throwing out anything he(?) can think of, and hoping that something sticks. I'm more than a little concerned by that behavior. And so, I'm going to go ahead and Vote: EtR.
I unfortunately don't have many other leads or strong reads on other players at this point. I just have a hard time knowing whether someone seems genuine or not through text. My only real mafia experience is with games played in person, where reading someone is much more about physical clues, and less focusing on things like how they word things.
Also, welcome to the game Seppel. Not really a big Hitler fan, but I'll try to be nice.
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Looking for a playgroup in/around Jerusalem, Israel. PM with details.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Yes, the meta I had been in often had people jumping at shadows. So every little thing often got over-blown. And considering how my last game ended, it's why I've had so much trouble. The scum easily fooled us into jumping at shadows. I do not want to repeat that mistake.
No, it read to me as a joke. A weird joke, but still a joke. What I want to know is why a joke is enough to vote someone. It's even more minor than what I was jumping at Lennon for.
That's the answer I needed.
unvote
I'm going to hop on the Anaklusmos train.
I'm still convinced that at least 1 scum is to be found on the early Lennon wagon, and his daytalk slip looks really ugly.
Vote: Anaklusmos
To me, it's typically a deviation from their normal posting style and/or clear desperation tactics. I really didn't see anything changing from post to post for Lennon, nor did his posting feel desperate.
You're right that there are different levels. Having played on a different site, for example, would make you experienced, but not used to the particular style of play on this website.
Hmm. Okay. So I'm getting that you've been quick to offer theories as they occur to you. Which does jive with your posting thus far.
Now this is the post that a new player makes, so that meshes, at least.
I don't consider inconsistency to strictly be irrelevant based on experience. But, other factors are making me reconsider your motive.
It's been a while, Seppel. Welcome!
Is posting that I've read stuff and will be writing a reply to post within 24hrs something I can count on doing, or should I just write stuff and post whenever?
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
I'm kind of caught up.
And my read on a lot of people is 'new'.
Which is a little bit frustrating.
Because while there's new!town and new!scum, I don't have a solid enough read to either push for the lynch or draw conclusions on people pushing for their lynch.
My vote is on EtR from early in the game, which TCM had incorrect in votals, annnnnd
it's still going to be on EtR.
I think he's scum.
Part gut, part lack of town mindset in the initial post I pointed out, and part the....passive reaction to my post, where it's like he thought 'maybe if I ignore it it'll go away'.
To help clarify for the mod -
Unvote; Vote: EtR
What's the purpose of this question?
Why do they have to be scum to use poor reasoning?
Why the need to "pretend" you said yes?
Why force the exaggerated metaphor, then?
And how does that make me scum?
Hmm. Explain a little more, if you would.
Why so jumpy from a simple question?
A player is not scum for using poor reasoning. It's how the poor reasoning is used that makes them more likely to be scum.
How is asking EtR for the reasons for his useless question jumpy?
Isn't THAT just plain inconvenient!
I don't get it. Can a favor be did and have this elaborated? Anyone?
http://imgix.8tracks.com/mix_covers/000/296/742/13390.original.jpg?fm=jpg&q=65&sharp=15&vib=10&w=521&h=521&fit=crop
I never said it was entirely needed, also addressed right above when I addressed strawberries.
While this is a clever little statement, it misses one extra little hitch. I think if you were actually trying to scumhunt, you'd do more than make me quote myself to answer you. That or you're just not paying attention, but I also don't like that since a town's job is to be observant.
Rhand... actually has a pretty good point. It's a rather pointless question 0.o
So, I'm new to the whole "OMGUS" thing - I really want to understand this bit so help me out? Basically this doesn't make much sense to me, as for what exactly you should explain... well explain it to a 5-year old, that should do it.
Suspicious and scummy feel like interchangeable words in this game, to be quite honest. Good point.
For example, I could paint this as 'trying to defend a scumbuddy' or 'trying to save someone he believes is also town'. Another good point.
---
...might've been a bit intrusive here but this particular discussion definitely caught my eye.
Seems like an awfully easy make-shift way to simply dismiss Anak's ENTIRE post. Adverbs.
I don't like how you're trying to divert all of the pressure here by making it seem more invisible. After reading Anak's post, I was hoping to see much more from you. If I'm forgetting some activity decrease post I'm too lazy to look for, then I apologize, but that doesn't make your current weak reply go away.
For example, have a bit of college experience in argument, a passion for writing and never having seen mafia before (well, more than just the rules) this game might put me at a level to figure this out pretty quickly but seem a little awkward at the same time.
My motive? Enlighten me.
...Anything else I can help you with? >_>
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
I haven't had enough time online recently to respond to Anak's last post regarding my case. I will have the response by the end of the weekend though.
Let's see. You've said that Tresserhorn's responses could have been sarcastic, as he said, and that makes him possibly town. You've also said that Anak's responses make him scummy.
Neither of those have anything to do with "how poor reasoning is used", which I should also note means absolutely nothing. There's not too many ways poor reasoning can be used, all of which happen to fall under "going after low-hanging fruit".
*eyes narrow*
I'm pretty sure there's no answer there.
I'm getting the feeling you're throwing around filler to hide, especially given how terribly vague your responses were.
Oh, on that subject, I just remembered this even existed:
Bandwagon votes based off of vague trains. The response was so ridiculously vague I barely even noticed the two conflicted.
I thought I'd elaborate on this - yes, it's a completely pointless question, and I was going to say something to that effect until I saw Rhand's reply.
Let's see. That first line and the second line don't mesh - they're following completely different mentalities. The first line's a denial, while the second one's trying to divert the topic. That's a pretty big overreaction to a question like that. It's like you completely panicked when being asked that, and the most likely person to do that is scum.
Lennonmint80 (1) Anaklusmos,
Void (2) Rick Santorum, Swishh,
Swishh (2) Cythare, Lord of Tresserhorn
Anaklusmos (3) Killjoy, Void, Rhand
Rhand (1) Lennonmint80
Tom (1) Tom
Cyouni (1) Teh JeY
Teh JeY (2) Cyouni, Alphainsidious
EtR (2) Tom, Voxxicus
Cythare (1) Robroy,
Not Voting (4) EtR, Seppel, Wessel, Captian Tzymo,
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What is your reasoning for voting Anak?
Response coming to Anak which will answer Cyouni and Teh JeY at the same time, shortly.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I wanted to question EtR on why he would ask that:
* Does he really think I am scum or is he just gauging for reactions? (= what makes you think that?)
* Does he have a pro-town motive for this question? (= how would that help us?)
You can call it diverting and panicking if you want; I call it looking at EtR's mindset.
I thought your response to him was inadequate for someone who should be suspicious of what I perceive to be scum.
If you're saying your vote for Void exonerates you, we're far enough from lynching for your vote to have any real weight.
Do you think void and I are scumbuddies, and if so, why?
True, but I think this early in the game targeting a new player is an easy way for scum to get a quick mislynch.
While it's not true OMGUS without a vote, it can certainly be setting the groundwork for that vote later.
I will detail soon - however, your reaction to this question feels very odd. It wasn't just a simple no, it was a no with a push back to divert from the actual question.
What part of my reaction was passive?
To gauge Rhand's reaction.
And obviously there is something there.
And now for Rhand:
RVS post - nothing here.
A nothing post regarding his sig.
A post related to his avatar pic. - Nothing here.
Another nothing post related to sig/avatar.
I like this post as it picks up on something that I didn't notice, but I have a town lean on Teh JeY at this time.
Backing up his previous vote and statements against JeY but then there is the more OOG stuff which add depth but don't really help. Arguably the "don't edit the posts" thing isn't fluff, but it can also be a way to gain a little bit of helpful town credit.
Clarification from a previous post. Not really anything here.
Further clarification. Also, lots of happy smiley faces.
More about the sig. Not scummy on it's own because it was it response to a request, but it does continue a trend of "nothing to see here" style posts.
Unvote from what to me was a weak vote in the first place on someone who's posting style is very different then the normal style around here. Teh JeY is someone that I see could easily be run up fairly quickly. When a wagon doesn't move, scum will look in another direction. In this case, Rhand has moved on to Captain Tzymo.
Clarification of his bolding issue on the CT vote.
A simple defense post. Nothing that you can really take away from this post.
The bolded of this post is a hypocrisy. You can see in the post above that Rhand votes CT without asking him questions or giving him much to respond to.
I'm going to call this a nothing post...Or better yet a busy work post. It gives the appearance of scum hunting when it actually doesn't add anything to the game.
This post can be read 1 of 2 ways, IMO. 1. Rhand is legitimately trying to clear a townie. 2. It could be read that Rhand is now concerned with having a cleared townie. Who would be concerned about having a cleared town? Scum.
Can't call this a fluff post, because it is in response to a direct question, but again there is nothing that this is adding to this game.
Again, this is in response to our conversation. Rhand does throw some additional information in here about his vote on Captain T, but then generalizes it by saying "and everyone else" leaving him the option of voting for any of those people if a case presents itself.
Busy work post.
Busy work
Here's that jumpy post that I talked about. The reaction just doesn't read well.
Here we have Rhand unvoting while claiming "that's the answer I needed." The answer provided by Captain T here isn't even in response to what his original reason for voting Captain T was. We also now have Rhand moving his vote again due to a day talk slip that looks really ugly, which in fact, might not be a slip at all.
See above.
Fluff posts - approx 8 of his 24 are RVS or OOG (avatar, sig, etc)
Busy work posts - there are several posts that appear to be doing something but in fact don't add anything to the game.
Weak voting reasons for two people that could become easy wagons.
A weak unvote on Captain T that had nothing to do with his original vote reasoning.
His over reaction to my "Are you scum" question.
[B]Vote Rhand[/B]
Why pull out a RVS post? #1
Why pull out a RVS post? #2
Why pull out a RVS post? #3
Why pull out a RVS post? #4
So it's a good post but I shouldn't have made it because you have a town lean?
The OOG stuff is a response to Teh JeY. It's not more OOG stuff: it's the first out-of-RVS OOG stuff. Did you have a scum read on me from this at that time?
And smilies are bad... why? And "Also"? Is clarification bad then?
"Nothing to see here" style posts that you conveniently all take out of RVS.
I unvoted when I saw that it was her posting style and not scummish nervousness. Why should I leave my vote on someone that I think is town? Because that is what you say I should've done if I were town.
That's not true. CT has things to respond to. I just didn't put question marks.
Why exactly is it that a townie should not be interested in wether other people are town?
Yes there is. I needed clarification for the fruit expression to understand an important part of the game.
You might have noticed that in the post where I voted for CT, I said I don't like the vote[B]s[/B] on Lennon. That did include Anak and double-voter Tom. I was at that point convinced that there's at least 1 scum on that wagon. And I still am.
The flailing question got me nowhere, but the guilty until proven innocent did.
I explained this. I asked these questions because I'm wary of you for asking that. And you conveniently neglected to give me my answer.
The answer shows he's honest. His explanation about how he looked at Lennon in a "guilty until proven otherwise" manner is true. He's probably town.
And again, I don't see a pro-town point in keeping my vote on someone who I think is town. I stated before that I think the Lennon train has scum on it. That scum is probably Anaklusmos.
See where?
My answers are spoilered above.
I unvoted myself earlier.
Regardless, unvote: Tom, vote: Anaklusmos
I don't know yet.
I know what you're getting at. But because of the experience level I hold you at I will find the simplest of ways to find a mind set read on you. Your answers so far have not been satisfactory to me.
If I had seen suspicious, then yes I would have over looked the post as I thought suspicious would be the accurate word choice. I believe you to be a better than average Mafia player and therefore I look at any possible scum tell from any better than average Mafia player, whether good or bad, as a chance to get a better read on that player as mentioned above.
Now you're slinging mud at me. I've acknowledged that there could have been a town mind set present, but you failed to show it in your post. I outlined your post with an explanation on why. Then I went further into the analysis showing how your post could be coaching of a scum buddy. The coaching aspect doesn't hold much weight until we see a flip from you.
Smear it in there, Anak, it's okay.
I was not by any means trying to “drag” anyone in for support. The observation made here is that you making accusations that are not true.
Now your saying you did read those comments which makes your first statement about “no one else seeing it as scummy” contradictory.
Please answer the question about whether or not you believe yourself be to low hanging fruit or not and why.
I understand your line of thought to obtain a better read, but what you originally posted here:
Emphasis mine. Tells me that you were that you as least had some expectations. I know that looking =/= expecting, but the word choices within the bolded has me believing that you did think of a few possible reactions prior to the response.
Your reasoning here makes the most sense on why you might be rusty or jumpy. This does bring up the fact that you are aware of jumpiness and/or rustiness. I'm never a big fan of self-awareness in Mafia. More so coming from my top suspect.
I didn't say that your vote was the reason for Lennon's behavioral change. I said your post could be considering coaching depending on your flip and only then will that information be brought into light more.
At this point it will best to agree to disagree on this situation until we see a flip from either you or Lennon.
I already commented on this in a previous post about your slip here. And, yes, I do believe it possible for the two of you to both be scum. I'll be more sure once we get a flip from either you.
If Anak flips scum, then Lennon is a likely scum buddy. Lennon's flip thus far has no bearing on Anak's alignment.
I found it suspicious that you had such a lack luster take on swishh taking in consideration the amount of talking you did with Lennon to consider him town. You didn't post a quote from swishh or made mention of a post of his. You plainly said “swishh is looking more town.” (Probably a bad paraphrase, but you get the point I am getting at). Should you flip scum, then I believe swishh to be a strong a town read.
Moving on:
The fact that Mr. Santorum jumps to the conclusion that Anak is talking about Day Chat without any sort of reference to when the scum can talk is a jump in logic. The catch of the slip without a vote doesn't mesh up together. Based on this posting from Mr. Santorum and the lack of voting I would believe him to be a good candidate (no pun intended :laugh:) of being a scum buddy to Anak.
Based on Tom's post I would believe Tom to be a good candidate for Town as the vote is rather... lacking and follows the misguided logic that Anak slipped about Day Chat when it was simply a slip about another chat out side of this forum. Something I believe town would be more likely to do in a situation like so.
As for the chat outside the forum comment from Anak: The comment doesn't necessarily mean that Anak is scum. He could be referring to a different type of chat related to this game (EG: Mason), but just because Anak could be a Mason doesn't mean that Anak would be a Town Mason. More pressure is needed here as this is becoming a stronger lead than others.
Cyouni
If this post didn't answer your question(s), then I am struggling to find the words that would help me get my point across about the poor reasoning.
Anak specifically said "if we were scumbuddies, I could have done that out of thread." Doesn't sound like a mason chat to me.
You also both call it a slip and then waffle, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.
I was only entertaining the idea that it could be a Mason chat so that others could see my thoughts. I did not say that what Anak referenced is a Mason Chat. I believe that Anak referred to the scum chat and possibly outed Lennon as his scum buddy in the progress. I may have made that unclear with how I worded my post.
Also, Void, your paragraph about me is impossible for me to understand.
Things you have stated: 1. You think Anak is likely scum based on the slip I highlighted. 2. You think I am potentially his buddy.
This paragraph does not make sense to me. You're saying that I "jumped to a conclusion" about the scum, but then you immediately try to say that I'm scum for doing so?
Let me think about the implications of doing this. If you legitimately think I'm jumping to conclusions, it would make me a townie from your perspective. Scum wouldn't be jumping to conclusions about the scum's communication methods: they'd know. So, it doesn't follow that you think I'm jumping to conclusions and then saying I'm scum for it.
It would potentially make sense if you think that Anak is town and I am scum trying to latch onto an easy case (something you hinted at when you pointed out that I didn't vote him), but you didn't say that. You have stated that you think Anak is scum. You have also stated that you think I am his buddy, though you worked enough weasel words into that one that there's room for you to try to back out of it.
I cannot think of a town mindset for your recent actions.
To quote myself:
Also, PMing mod to get a prod on Cythare.
And your second question's completely redundant. If either of the first two are true, then he automatically has a pro-town motive. That means that the first question was asked with that in mind. The second question automatically becomes irrelevant as soon as the first is asked.
Oh, and "what makes you think that" isn't "are you fishing for reactions".
You just declared one person scum and another town for doing the exact same thing. Immediately following that, you attempt to throw doubt on the "scumchat" line from Anak (which was your argument for why Santorum was scum), before stating that you believed it referenced a scumchat.
Your lines don't add up.
Because it's a PBPA and I quoted all of your posts.
I never said you shouldn't have made it, I was merely giving my opinion on the situation. That's very defensive of you to jump to that conclusion.
I think it adds to my scum read on you, yes. It is avoidance of real issues that require an opinion.
No, smiles are not bad. I never said they were. Just that you have a lot of them. You really are pretty defensive.
Because you have a lot of posts that doing really add anything of value to the thread. It really feels like you are avoiding putting anything concrete into the thread.
No, it isn't what I said, and this is a weak hand wave of a legitimate point.
If this is true, then why did you move your vote off of Captain T? You said you were satisfied with his response to your concerns.
Why exactly is it that a townie should not be interested in wether other people are town?[/quote]
This is how I got caught in Mean Girls Mafia. I was town hunting as scum and not scum hunting. Town hunt scum not town.
Yes, that's fair. I agree that you needed to ask the question.
Where did it get you?
The whole PBP was an answer...I asked because I thought you were and now I've outlined why.
But just above you said Captain T still had questions to answer.
Yes I think you are scum. My motive for asking the question was to guage your reacation. I believe that is pro-town.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I haven't figured out yet how to defend myself from a case without being defensive
I asked you if this gave you a scum read on me at that time.
If there's nothing wrong with smilies nor with clarification, then why use it in your case?
Count the non-RVS useless posts please. There aren't that many.
And those that do exist are in response to someone.
What is that legitimate point you have? I don't see it.
Because he answered satisfactory to the things he had to respond to.
I am not hunting town. Tom was one of my suspects for being on the early Lennon wagon, and I wanted to know if there was a point in pursuing that lead.
I explained that. It showed CT's honesty.
Have you? I defended myself against every 'point' you made, and your answer is every time that I'm being overly defensive. If I don't need to defend myself on those points, then you don't have any, right?
He had questions to answer at the time I wrote that post.
He answered them.
Your intentions weren't clear at the time of your question.
Void, here you have Anak, Lennon and Rick Santorum as scum. Who else would you peg as their buddies? Finding all of the scum Day 1 would be awesome.
His voice booms from all directions, "I am Hitler, creator of all that is known, and slayer of evil. Far too long has it been since I have restored balance to my world."
Hitler grabs his sword, God's *****, and holds it high.
"Enough! Captain Tzymo, you are dead!"
Execute Captain Tzymo
Hitler lowers his blade with tremendous speed, slicing Tzymo in half.
Everyone remains in shock of what has happened. Blood dissipates from Hitler's blade as he sheathes it. Then, he floats back toward the sky. It is evident now that he provides the world's daylight.
That's just such a completely out-of-the-blue suck-up post that I really can't describe as anything but wrong. And suck-up's not even describing it right.
@Wessel: What makes EtR scum as opposed to tunnel-visioning?
I am interested to hear Anak's response to this.
Please tell us what you believe the one answer to be.
I dislike the fact that you are defending Anak instead of waiting for Anak to defend himself. I also dislike the fact that you are both defending Anak and attacking RS by labelling him as Anak's scumbuddy. I am starting to be on-board with the "lynch Void" wagon.
I really hope that we have no more replacements this game... but I can't feel sad about this one.
No
Seppel: "I don't like the way you carry yourself around here. You sound like a king, and a believer in controlling your country. Much like the same man I fought in my own time."
Captain Tyzmo: "Are you joking, American dummy? I was one of the prime fighters against Communism, the evil of our time. China fell to that pretender, Mao-ZeDong and took my beloved country into the Communist evil.
Seppel: "What a joke. It doesn't matter what you tell me. I have read many men before you. I knew Arnold was a traitor, I knew King George was corrupt. Now, all of history will know the true evil that you are.
Captain Tyzmo was Chiang Kai-shek (Mafia Goon)
Captain Tyzmo, You are Chiang Kai-shek (October 31, 1887 – April 5, 1975)
You war against Mao Ze Dong for control of China ended up as an overall failure. Whether because your army was ill-trained, or the communists were poorly trained, Dong eventually controlled the mainland of China, while you controlled the island of Taiwan. What few know is that your corruption with the use of US weapons and money was the true reason for your failure. Today, you are here to take back your country, and rid communism once and for all.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player. During the night, you can decide to kill a player at night.
VOTE COUNTS HAVE BEEN RESET! With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Now we lynch Eron.
Vote EtR.
I was just posting to check in quickly since I'm running to work. That's quite the entrance!
I should have a longer post up by Wednesday night.
--------------
Teh JeY is probably town.
Anaklusmos is posting aggressively (#119). Weak follow-up with vote sticking = town, back off or full aggression = scum.
@Wessel: #169: Why no vote on Anaklusmos in this post?
Captain Tzymo is probably Iso and probably scum. What is up with that hyperaggressive vote on Lennon? Scum. #218 is so fencesitty it isn't even funny. He pulled this in Star Trek DS9 also.
#175 (Anaklusoms): I like Anaklusmos's reasoning here. But I don't remember him making such large posts. Potential scumWoD syndrome. Need more content.
@Cyouni: Are you tired of being town?
#219 is RobRoy being town.
By extension of RobRoy being town and Iso being scum, Lennon is town.
Swishh seems kinda town from #223
Cythare is town unless there's cause to believe that this game only has a 3-man scumteam.
Wessel is deducing things well in #230. Hopefully he's not a SK this time.
Lord of Tresserhorn or Load of Dresserporn???
The JeY is really really probably town.
same reasoning for the really really applies to swishh
#87: EtR sounds so weird here.
#89: Void's posts have sounded so fake and I'm calling him out now since there's a bunch of fakery in this post. Where are his requests going? I've seen no actual analyzation or conclusions made so far.
I like Rick in #90.
#95: You are both overwhelmingly town. Rick for stonewall reactions, and Swishh for using his vote in a way that is nearly impossible for scum to do. Scum want people to get lynched, and this isn't a vote to push toward a lynch, and it's going to attract attention to him - another thing scum don't want.
#100: I got the same vibe from EtR's post.
#102: Good Voxx. Town Voxx.
#98: Dresserporn sounds fake.
#103: Tom makes a good vote.
Swishh's #122 is a contradiction - why hesitant to unvote when your vote is meaningless?
Compare EtR's statements:
* I'm not going to pile on with a vote at this point, but I would like to hear more from Swishh regarding his comment.
* Hmmm. I didn't vote because I didn't think it was really worthy of a vote. I didn't see the action as scummy but was interested in his thoughts from the statement.
...and this is fake because Swishh posted between these two posts and Eron didn't follow up on it.
* He had to answer. The attention was squarely on him. If he refused to answer, I would have reason to vote then.
Answer what? He didn't respond to the question of why he was hesitant to vote void, and you provided none.
#186: Rhand asks if scum double voters exist. Not a scum question the way it's worded.
#209: Tzymo I mean Iso backs out of his previous assessment of Lennon in the oddest way possible.
In-depth read of Void returns a town mindset. Aggravating.
EtR's case on Rhand is not at all like his townEtR case in #1408, and the rest of this sentence can't be said for a few months.
Rhand's reply to the case is completely sensical. I don't see how EtR could continue this attack.
I expect the mafia to try to push toward Void.
Tziso doesn't respond to EtR at all. Oh look he's going after Void.
#229 (Killjoy): Good analysis, but the mention of a third party bugs me SO HARD.
----------------------------------
Town (may need to double check these with Iso's flip)
TJ (innocent posting)
Voxx (good but where are you bro)
Swishh (not scum motivated)
RobRoy (goodposting)
Lennonmint (Iso attack)
Seppel (hitler)
Town with stipulations:
Wessel (plz don't be SK)
Cythare (3-man scumteam comment)
Cyouni (emulating his towngame; gotta make sure he's actually town though)
Tom (double voter)
Rhand (asked if doublevoters could be scum; not scum if tom is town, acting like Micah when he's town; totally town if EtR is scum)
Void (terribleposting, but emulating his towngame)
Rick (goodposting, but I don't like his targets)
Undecided:
Anaklusmos (#253 has that infamous slip, but I can't find anything else that points strongly to town or scum. He's just speaking logically.)
Cannot be read due to extremely low content:
Alpha
Killjoy
Likely scum:
Load of Dresserporn (has only talked about swishh, but then got the flu and disappeared for a week)
Scum:
Tzymo (lol)
EtR (obv badposting)
I am suddenly even happier about Seppel joining us.
It takes a kill to get you to post?
You've been gone for 4 days and conveniently you post after the daykill has gone through. How's it feel to get PM notification that your buddy died?
You also welcomed me in your previous post.
Oh wow and I missed this gem:
That's your last bit of analysis (on the 17th) other than talking with TJ for your remaining two posts and dropping a question to Tzymo that went nowhere.
This is a bizarre release of pressure from Eron, who is so obviously scum now that he needs to be lynched now, no questions asked. You should know better than to think that everything makes sense in these Eron quotes.
You will be lynched Day 2.
Ah, so apparently is has been too long since we've last played. You've forgotten that 4 days absences from me are exceedingly common. As in, say, the very last game I played.
I planned to make a check-in post before I took my pre-work shower, and now came out to see your latest post. I can't help the timing.
By release of pressure, you mean what? You've obviously misread my post, which is calling out the fact that ETR was being inconsistent, and also self-conscious with his "piling on" comment.
And now, if you don't mind, I'd like to not be late for my shift.
You need to do something townie, though.
Things to comment on:
Obviously, Captain flipping scum changes things. I'm not well versed enough in mafia, and more specifically, in behavior analysis to really know how to even begin to react to someone dying, and what their alignment then allows us to conclude about other players.
Something I can be sure of, however, is how depressingly bad EtR's case on Rhand is. I suppose it could just be a case of really awful tunnel vision, and EtR really does think Rhand is scum, and is trying too hard to justify that, but to me it seems more that EtR is doing his(?) best to find anything at all to convince everyone to lynch Rhand. It looks to me as if EtR is just throwing out anything he(?) can think of, and hoping that something sticks. I'm more than a little concerned by that behavior. And so, I'm going to go ahead and Vote: EtR.
I unfortunately don't have many other leads or strong reads on other players at this point. I just have a hard time knowing whether someone seems genuine or not through text. My only real mafia experience is with games played in person, where reading someone is much more about physical clues, and less focusing on things like how they word things.
Also, welcome to the game Seppel. Not really a big Hitler fan, but I'll try to be nice.
Try this: ask each player a question in your next post.