Random thought: if KK is scum why is he still alive. I'm 99% sure he's at L-1. Surely, the scum would want to limit the conversation that we are having right now. That says to me KK is probably town (that's why he hasn't self hammered) and all the scum are already on his wagon.
It may not have occurred to KK to self-hammer.
Also if scum did not have daytalk such a post would be the only way to hint at KK to do so.
Some players refuse to self-hammer ever. Read a Tordeck scum game for an example of a player that does just that.
Overall this point is Null.
It has occured, I've posted about it. I've cooled my head to not do it, though.
Are you serious? As VT, you want the scum to NK you! You play as townie as possible so that they DON'T target a power role with the NK. The role of a Vanilla Townie is to play as well as possible during the day and hope to be a meat shield at night. -_-
Haven't thought about this. This is my first time being a VT, actually.
I'm with Eron. I don't think this guy is scum. vote PSR
lol I just logged on bro. I generally try to comment on something when I can though.
On the PSR vs KK lynch:
I see good points on both of them. I have a stronger read on PSR, but that is admittedly biased since I haven't liked much of what he's done this phase, a good portion of it being attacking me for what I feel, and others have stated, is no reason. My problem is that I don't really know what his goal was. I don't know if he thought I was going to buckle and maybe slip and say something scummy, or what. The attack itself was scummy as hell, but I can't see what the scum motivation behind it so early in the game was. His actions since then have not helped him in my mind either but, again, bias. His deflection of arguments via "ad hom" when at least a couple people have said there was none there left a sour taste in my mouth.
As far as KK, knowing now that safe-claims are sometimes a thing here, I don't like his initial coming out and full claiming. Thalia is one of those roles that in this game I could see being a safe claim because she is so prolific both as a card and a character in the lore for Innistrad and people would expect her to be in the game. His repeated use of "I'm an honest person, you can totally trust me" type argument doesn't sit well with me either.
In short, I would be fine with either of the two of them being lynched. Your vote put him(PSR) at L-2, and from my experience last game I think that means he's supposed to full claim now? I'll hold off my vote for now on those grounds.
IB, bring your case forward. Maybe you will get the pull to get me lynched. However, you mentioned here:
Quote from IB »
I also find the argument against KK very good.
but yet you are attempting to distract from the KK lynch to push for me. Granted it's a small distraction since I have been in the spotlight for most of toDay, but it's a distraction none the less.
IB, have you ever distracted from a lynch when the lynch was this close to threshold?
I know that IB does not have a completed scum game yet, but his town play is normally bad. Town: Please take into consideration while reading IB. IB has always been a difficult read for me.
Are you a gimmick?
You're very convincing if you are.
EWP: I want to hammer you because I think you're running a really good gambit, but your last few posts seem very townie to me and I'm way more inclined to think PSR is scum.
I genuinely believe you have no clue how to play as VT.
EWP: Looking at your post history, it looks like you have zero completed games. Is that true?
Yes.
That's obnoxious.
If you are town, I know you had the best of intentions in trying to look back into my completed games (which I don't have) to check for similarities and/or discrepancies in my play and see if I'm more likely to be town or scum, but I find important to clear this out right here: I'll do my best to play erratically enough through games to be considered unmetable, regardless of alignment.
That said, this wasn't my intention in this game. It occured to me because while I'm playing here for about two months, the sheer amount of resorts to meta in different games is scary and frustrating to the same time (to the point where people like PSR create a gimmick to avoid being meta'ed and people STILL insist in knowing his identity).
EWP: Looking at your post history, it looks like you have zero completed games. Is that true?
Yes.
That's obnoxious.
If you are town, I know you had the best of intentions in trying to look back into my completed games (which I don't have) to check for similarities and/or discrepancies in my play and see if I'm more likely to be town or scum, but I find important to clear this out right here: I'll do my best to play erratically enough through games to be considered unmetable, regardless of alignment.
That said, this wasn't my intention in this game. It occured to me because while I'm playing here for about two months, the sheer amount of resorts to meta in different games is scary and frustrating to the same time (to the point where people like PSR create a gimmick to avoid being meta'ed and people STILL insist in knowing his identity).
Meta is a good way to get a lead or close a suspicion. Nothing to build an entire case off of, but sufficiently different play or similar play can sway people one way or the other.
But that's a discussion for the theory thread.
Re: erratic play: Iso pulls it off, barely, and even he can be meta'd. (Yes, Iso. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean you don't have a meta. Shut up, I love you.) I don't suggest it, for the record.
I uh.. Don't know the protocol on this one. My gut is to vote, but I don't want a self hammer to kill discussion in case there is something I am missing.
I'm reading through the thread, im over a 6th of the way done and I started a tiny bit ago, the exam sucked btw, and Phoenix Sun Rize, what were you thinking man?!
Phoenix Sun Rise(4) HammerAndSickled, EtR, Kosakosa, infectiousbaloth KosaKosa (6) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise, Allwinapprentice
Not voting: iPot, TheEndIsNear
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. LTR is on hold yet again until I find a replacement.
HammerAndSickled will be replaced for failing to answer prod and Allwinaprentice has been prodded and has 48 hours to respond.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I think refusing to claim is anti-town. The only reason that claiming is a formality is so we don't lynch power roles by mistake. Refusing to claim, in my opinion, means VT or scum. I'm pretty comfortable with a PSR lynch now.
I think refusing to claim is anti-town. The only reason that claiming is a formality is so we don't lynch power roles by mistake. Refusing to claim, in my opinion, means VT or scum. I'm pretty comfortable with a PSR lynch now.
Hi town IB
I know reddiquette blahblah but:
This.
@PSR: I would love to hear a town-motivated reason for you NOT to claim.
Also, Tezz, how is KK lurking at all? He posted several times yesterday.
Yeah... cause you were lurking. Its not really capitalizing if its obviously true.
Besides me, HnS, TDP, Mirror, Truk, Mao, TMCT and AWA were prodded during the course of the game, some twice. Does it makes all of them lurkers? Remember we had a lot of replacements during the last couple of days, so waiting for their opinion is a good thing.
Now, KK does this a lot, every player who's joined this game he's been overly friendly to to help buy his anti-case.
Now saying "Hi. Welcome." is considered to be "overly friendly" instead of "polite"? Especially to players that I am/was playing other games with? And since when is friendliness a reason to lynch someone or not?
Now, I just love this. Early game, he hates meta-Now he's perfectly okay with IB wanting to use it to his benefit.
...how again am I ok with IB using meta to my benefit? I said on that post that I aim to be unmetable. I warned him to not take my completed games, which don't exist yet, as proof of anything because I will consciently play in different patterns to avoid being meta'ed, regardless of alignment.
He's been bandwagoning this PSR wagon without really giving any reason why-hoping to make PSR the lynch for today instead of him.
Incorrect. I've pointed out more than once that PSR's /barn vote didn't rest well with me. He refused to give his reasons for voting me, simply saying it was indeed a /barn, and now has refused to claim. What other reasons do you want to believe he's scum?
I'm going to ask this again, why is this guy not dead?
Because even if I'm the lynch for today, it's stupid to rush a lynch, especially at Day 1. You are trying too hard to get myself lynched and aren't analyzing the surroundings.
I finished my first readtrough.
I am on the phone, so I can't do a post with quotes or postnumbers.
I hope to get one done today. When is the lynch deadline?
My gut tells me that lynching KK is wrong, so I am not going to hammer.
My ideas on who is scum shifted a little from the start of the read towards the end of the read. The inactivity of many makes it hard to get a good opinion on everyone tho.
As for now, I think that the scumteam consists of PSR, mao and tetris.
I will explain why in depth when I am on a pc with some time to do it.
Got to hurry and get readyfor work now.
More from me later
Ookay, I'm at work now and the colleague next to me is on vacation, so I can write it all out now
Spoilered because of hugeness.
Also, can we get a vote count please?
I'm going to ignore RSV, but that didn't last long in this game
#17: PSR decides to end RSV with a naked second vote on iPot.
He then proceeds to go on a crusade against him.
iPot goes defensive and does seem scummy in doing so.
My initial thoughts after the whole back and forth flaming was that they were scumbuddies who wanted to make it clear from the start that they're not on the same team.
The outcome however shows iPot as probably town and PSR as scum.
What interests me most at this point is how the other players react here. I mark posts that lean scummy red and townish blue.
I don't mark color when something gives me a null-read.
#26: MirrorEntity gives a very townish view on the situation
#27: Kosakosa explains he dislikes Meta. This is a pro-town view: we don't want to lynch someone because of meta, giving scum the opportunity to jump ship.
#33: TMCT comments on the situation. It feels like he coaches PSR to stop attacking iPot. He literally says 'drop it' to him.
#35: JD goes on a subtle scumhunt vs PSR.
#37: TDP asks for more info on both. I don't like his tone, but it's a townish thing to do.
#38: KK shows he has a temper. This is a null tell, but warns me that his angry way of posting does not imply scumminess. He will be hard to read.
#43: TMCT shows he's still reading, but posts nothing game-related. It's the first time he posts after the post that I interpreted as coaching.
#46: Maokun posts and has absolutely nothing to say. Weird, as the current discussion is already quite heated.
#48: My predecessor shows up. I'm gonna take the liberty of not commenting his posts
#49: Tetris shows up. He does a soft attack on PSR. At the time, I read that as townish, but now (I'll explain more later on), I feel this as taking distance from a scumbuddy.
#50: Truk should have posted some more content here, but not wanting to lynch too fast sounds townish.
#53: TMTC keeps pushing Phoenix. I'm still wary of him, but if he is scum, he shows here that he'll be a though one to catch.
#55: Allwin states the obvious without adding anything. Not really a town thing to do, but not a scumtell either.
#57: Allwin adds a question that can give alot of info when answered.
#60: TMCT attacks PSR. I still have a weird feeling about him, but my ratio tells me this is townish.
#66: Truk proposes a claim. Weird, uncalled for and hurting the town.
#69: TMCT points out how scummy Truk's idea is. His response triggers my scum-radar because he doesn't push Truk more. It almost feels like coaching.
#70: Allwin makes the post TMTC should've made.
#71: Truk takes the bait. His answer makes it unseemable that TMTC and he are both scum, making the "coaching" point I made on #69 invalid. This post does not feel scummish in any way and I believe now that Truk did not propose the claim out of a scum mindset.
#72: MirrorEntity thinks the same way as me.
#76: TMTC goes very semantic here to cast a negative light on Truk.
#79: Maokun, while silent almost all game, suddenly jumps in against Truk: he's scummy. He isn't. Or yes, he is. Oh and Phoenix isn't scum. Or he is. Or maybe not.
#80: Kosakosa does his weird claim. I think he genuinly believes that claiming will expose the scum, and that by stating his alignment, town will be convinced of him being town.
#84: PSR changes his vote. I think he does that because a Truk wagon seems to have more chances to succeed than an iPot wagon at this point in the game.
#85-90: PSR and TMCT have a discussion that goes deep enough to convince me that only one of them can be scum. I think it is PSR, but if he flips town, I will definately keep my eye on TMCT.
#91: Truk posts from a town mindset. Not elegantly, but this does not sound like scum.
The following posts are more proof of Turk's town-mind and PSR's scummyness.
#98: iPot sounds very genuine here.
#101: MirrorEntity further shows his town mindset.
#102: TMCT is eager to go to claim range. He keeps pinging my Scum-radar.
#104: Truk wants more input.
#105: TDP jumps the Truk wagon out of nowhere. Apart from not supporting a mass claim, there is no reasoning for the vote.
#109: Tetris makes a post that looks big because of quotes, but he adds absolutely nothing. Very suspicious, seeing his low postcount.
#113: Tetris goes after KK. I read KK as town and think that Tetris wants to get our attention away from his scumbuddy PSR. Also, these questions won't tell us much when answered. We already know how KK view his random claim, and a flavor vs meta discussion seems pointless.
#118: Tetris finds an open goal in KK's reasoning and scores. All eyes focused on KK now and scumbuddy PSR is suddenly not so important anymore.
#119: TMCT does the same but less harsh.
#120: JD, who posts not nearly enough, seems to regard things from a town mindset.
#121: iPot asking about the safe-claim list must come from a town mindset. It would be ridiculous if a scum would point this out to us.
#122: TDP seems to be posting fro ma town mindset, altho I don't agree with his conclusions. #124: PSR This is the post where PSR proves that he's scum. He accuses Truk from changing his opinion by telling him that a vote that is used for means other than lynching come from a non-town mindset. So what did his initial vote on iPot represent then? PSR is scum.
He timed the slip well tho: all other posters at that time, who I believe are all town, ignore his slip because they are too busy with attacking Truk.
#132: Maokun is a lurker. He decides to put people in categories because that's what a townie would do. His top scum suspects are not on my scum list. I don't understand his view on PSR.
#133: JD confirms my idea of him being town.
#134: TMCT now seems to really be town. I can't brush off the funny feeling he gives me just yet however, but I can't find rational reasons for the feeling. It's just gut.
#135: Tetris's big scumpost: The tone is agressive, the arguments are short. And most importantly, there isn't a single sentence in his post that seems to come from a town mindset. I'm convinced that this is scum trying to get a townie lynched. Furthermore, after his mini-attack against what I believe is his scumbuddie PSR, his only posts are fired at KK. He doesn't investigate other options.
#137: Maokun uses many words to say little. He says 'town shouldn't be eager to place a vote with little reason' where I would expect him to say 'I am not eager to...' or 'we shouldn't be...' . It's like he distances himself from the voting process. Scum read for me.
#144: KK is on to something here when pointing out Tetris's weird statement about inactive people. Too bad he doesn't pursue this more. #150: Tetris makes a terrible post. What kind of townie would ever format his post like this? He is frustrated, but no one is voting him. Why is he frustrated? Tetris is scum.
I am going to skip forward a bit now; my in-depth analysis is becoming deeper than I anticipated
The part I skip is global tunelling on KK.
A player that doesn't participate in the tunelling is Allwin (but he does vote for him)
The reaction on him not being part of the tunelling is that he's perceived as scumbuddy.
Also note how much Tetris suddenly posts now that his victim of choice is being dragged to the lynch.
After that, there's a little focus on me.
#196: Truk goes against the flow, declaring he doesn't see KK being scum. His reasoning seems to come fro ma town-mindset.
#203: KK has some questions. He feels completely honest. If he does this from a scum mindset, he has got me fooled.
#204: Maokun reminds us that not only KK but also Truk are possible scum. I'm getting biased because I quite strongly believe he is part of the scum team, and this post makes sense if he is: he wants us to kill KK now and Truk on day 2 (I still think both are town). But on the other hand, his reasoning also fits a townie that really thinks KK and Truk are scum.
TDP gets replaced by EtR. I had a sleight town read from him and EtR further confirms that in his posting. I am happy that he puts PSR back in the spotlight.
I'm not going to do it post by post, but it clearly makes Tetris nervous. #228 'Why isn't this guy dead already?' is a clear sign that he needs the hammer before his buddy gets lynched.
#238: Maokun desides to step in to convince the new EtR that KK must be hammered. Sooner rather than later.
I need to skip faster now, I'm spending my whole workday on this :/
I basicly agree with most EtR says, confirming my town read on him.
Some important highlights:
#247: Tetris thanks his probable scumbuddy Maokun for a post!
#265: EtR says what I have been thinking for quite a while now: we have someone at L-1 and he isn't hammered. I think we have to indeed look for the scum on his wagon, and my suspects are all on it. Sadly, all 4 of them are, so I can't eliminate to 3.
IB replaces Truk and confirms my town read with his analysis.
Circumstantially this feels like a town answer. I've never felt surer of a KK lynch than I do now.
Yes. This, so much this. Let us think about this carefully: If PSR were scum, now it would be the perfect time to present a false/safe/whatever claim; totally warranted and in fact, requested, she could definitely help her case. A town only has things to lose by claiming, on the other hand: if she's a power role, she'd be signing her death sentence for tonight. If she's vanilla, not claiming may make scum suspect she has a power role and NK her, so sparing a true PR. I'm not going to say it's definite proof of townness, but it is definitely pro-town behaviour.
I think refusing to claim is anti-town. The only reason that claiming is a formality is so we don't lynch power roles by mistake. Refusing to claim, in my opinion, means VT or scum. I'm pretty comfortable with a PSR lynch now.
Hi town IB
And here we have our now very expected post of EtR jumping in to contradict common sense with the feeling of his gut... which seems to be quite enamoured with KK (maybe he's a great cook?)
Anyway onto my update (first post of this kind may be found here:
Heavy Scum Lean
KosaKosa: He was already in my scum list back then (around midpoint from the start of the game) and he has been very steadfastly inching his way up on my scum scale. I've seriously been trying to find holes in my own reasoning but then he helpfully makes another scum-stinking post and I'm left wondering why do I bother.
EtR: I had a pretty null read on The Dark passenger but since EtR arrived, he's been strenuously defending KK with nothing but a-priori statements that are backed but by the feeling of his gut -as he had to admit- in lieu of any substantial evidence. At the same time, he's been pushing an anti-PSR agenda that seems but a desperate effort to distract from a KK's lynch and that has almost as little foundation as his KK case.
Scum Lean
Truk: He basically disappeared from the map following the KK debacle -maybe he blames himself for causing it or was fearing to become smeared by the spillover? I guess that since scum can only communicate at night he had no way to know that KK would fall so absurdly for what seemed like a trap for nooby town PRs. He's no longer my prime suspect as he was in my previous dossier (mostly because now I have better suspects,) but I sure as hell haven't forgotten the reasons why I initially suspected him. It's unfortunate that TEIN had to join basically in AFK mode.
iPot: Back then, iPot's posts seemed erratic and purposeless to me and I just shrugged my shoulders rather than try to pry any lean from that. However, since EtR arrived, he seems to have found his way -which is subtly agree with him on most things. Whether this is because he's scum too or just because he truly believes EtR to be town and right is left to see, but since EtR is a strong scum lean for me, I'm suspecting iPot a bit too now.
50%/50%
PhoenixSunRise: In my previous post I said: "Some of his actions at the beginning seemed scummy but his posts have been great ever since, seems quite clever and aware. If scum, a great danger, if town, a great asset." This keeps being true almost exactly today as then. She sometimes has some posts that make me raise an eyebrow, but then some really clear, pro-town posts that set back my doubts. Right now, I'd say she's 51% town in my eyes.
IB: Dammit, if I hadn't have a fresh experience dealing with him, I'd put him on the scum lean because posts that are basically a random quote and then saying "Hi town" or "Scum. Vote" are super unhelpful to town in my opinion as they provide 0 information and make him appear as though he can see things that others can't but should agree with him anyway. However, now I know that's his playstyle even when he's town so I'm trying really hard to keep an open mind about him.
Rhand: I previously had a null read on HnS but afterwards he kept acting like a classical town noob. However, now he's been replaced, and Rhand swinging at first going by "his gut" following EtR's ways forces me to reconsider whatever town points HnS had gained in my eyes.
Town lean
MzztrTetris: Perhaps a bit overzealous, but definitely pro-town in all his posts. my opinion on him hasn't changed much.
Heavy Town Lean
The Most Curious Thing: I think we can all agree here?
Null Read
jdisawesomesauce: Most likely he'll be replaced. Let's hope he'll be the last one.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I've got the feeling that you're not going to like the huge post I just made and that you clearly haven't seen yet Maokun
I would like to see you respond to the comments I made about PSR, Tetris and TMCT.
You have them all in town or 50/50 and I completely disagree with that.
To answer an early question I agree and see no reason in answering why I see some people less scummy then others as this doesn't help with the goal at hand but I will delve into my notes and share my reasoning on why I view some as scummier than others.
With the addition of newer eyes coming into the game and bringing some different points to light I am finding PSR to be more scummy then KK. I find them both to be acting scummy but I do not believe they are both scum. I believe that if PSR is town then KK is scum and vice versa. Now on the matter of Truk I found him scummy before with his ideas for the mass claim but with the new players better analysis of him then mine I no longer have him leaning as strongly towards scum.
Now for why I find KK and PSR to be scummy. Some of these points have already been stated by other players but I am going to list them here so that my conclusion is complete for everyone.
PSR:
PSR ended the RVS with a vote on iPot after my vote which isn't a scum tell but then he very aggressively tried to meta iPot very early. This could of either been town or scum looking for some quick town credibility with "scum-hunting". He continues to push this wagon for a bit but then goes to state that he doesn't want iPot to be the lynch for the day while still voting and attacking iPot. And in his post he states "The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched". So based on the fact that he wasn't getting anyone to join in against someone who he finds scummy he then switches to Truk. He wants to vote Truk because Truk voted for him on the basis of a Policy Lynch Day 1. After he is on that wagon for a bit he switches to KosaKosa without any reasoning attached in a quoted post #160. From here on out he has been going for the lynch on KK but still makes comments as to how iPot is scummy and since no one is with him he rather just push a different wagon where he has people with him. I find this to be a scum behavior because if you find scum and believe they are scum then why just push someone else because people are there with you? PSR has also refused to claim which is not a scum tell but leads to alot of mystery around him and makes me what he has to hide.
KK:
KK has this game just built a list of scummy behavior and reasoning. He has tried fear-mongering to avoid his lynch, occasional lurking, as well as having some very knee jerk reactions. He also has claimed fully without the need to at all. Then states that if he avoids a NK for being VT that is good for the town but in fact this is anti town because if he is VT (which i doubt) then he has just statistically increased the random chance for the mafia to pick a town, kill them and hit a power role. Kosakosa has been a big distraction to the town either way he flips and distractions only help the scum team. For this I would agree to lynch KK for the day but as my notes stand now I think PSR is scummier. And his sarcasm and ideals that he is teaching someone what is right and wrong is just overall annoying and unhelpful in my opinion.
Phoenix Sun Rise(5) EtR, Kosakosa, infectiousbaloth, iPot, Allwinapprentice KosaKosa (5) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: TheEndIsNear, RHand
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. First LTR is on December 21st.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I uh.. Don't know the protocol on this one. My gut is to vote, but I don't want a self hammer to kill discussion in case there is something I am missing.
In Vampire Mafia Poggydude refused to full claim until someone was willing to lay the hammer vote. There are reasons why someone wouldn't want to full claim.
To answer an early question I agree and see no reason in answering why I see some people less scummy then others as this doesn't help with the goal at hand but I will delve into my notes and share my reasoning on why I view some as scummier than others.
With the addition of newer eyes coming into the game and bringing some different points to light I am finding PSR to be more scummy then KK. I find them both to be acting scummy but I do not believe they are both scum. I believe that if PSR is town then KK is scum and vice versa. Now on the matter of Truk I found him scummy before with his ideas for the mass claim but with the new players better analysis of him then mine I no longer have him leaning as strongly towards scum.
Now for why I find KK and PSR to be scummy. Some of these points have already been stated by other players but I am going to list them here so that my conclusion is complete for everyone.
PSR:
PSR ended the RVS with a vote on iPot after my vote which isn't a scum tell but then he very aggressively tried to meta iPot very early. This could of either been town or scum looking for some quick town credibility with "scum-hunting". He continues to push this wagon for a bit but then goes to state that he doesn't want iPot to be the lynch for the day while still voting and attacking iPot. And in his post he states "The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched". So based on the fact that he wasn't getting anyone to join in against someone who he finds scummy he then switches to Truk. He wants to vote Truk because Truk voted for him on the basis of a Policy Lynch Day 1. After he is on that wagon for a bit he switches to KosaKosa without any reasoning attached in a quoted post #160. From here on out he has been going for the lynch on KK but still makes comments as to how iPot is scummy and since no one is with him he rather just push a different wagon where he has people with him. I find this to be a scum behavior because if you find scum and believe they are scum then why just push someone else because people are there with you? PSR has also refused to claim which is not a scum tell but leads to alot of mystery around him and makes me what he has to hide.
KK:
KK has this game just built a list of scummy behavior and reasoning. He has tried fear-mongering to avoid his lynch, occasional lurking, as well as having some very knee jerk reactions. He also has claimed fully without the need to at all. Then states that if he avoids a NK for being VT that is good for the town but in fact this is anti town because if he is VT (which i doubt) then he has just statistically increased the random chance for the mafia to pick a town, kill them and hit a power role. Kosakosa has been a big distraction to the town either way he flips and distractions only help the scum team. For this I would agree to lynch KK for the day but as my notes stand now I think PSR is scummier. And his sarcasm and ideals that he is teaching someone what is right and wrong is just overall annoying and unhelpful in my opinion.
So with my newest analysis above: Unvote
Vote PSR
Your reasoning on KK is why he should be the lynch for today, at best we lynch scum, at worst we lynch a VT who hasn't being helpful at all.
In regard to PSR, people are allowed to have more than one scum suspect.
The fact that he continues makes jabs at iPot shows some consistency in his behaviour, it means I believe he believes iPot is scum.
Also dropping a case because no-one case was on board happens all the time, I did it with IB in Gotham Underground. I brought it up every day but then would go with a different lynch, he got lynched and I was wrong. Point is him pursuing KK and not iPot is null.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Null Read
jdisawesomesauce: Most likely he'll be replaced. Let's hope he'll be the last one.
The only time I was replaced was when I requested so because I couldn't continue due to medical reasons. I find it weird you take the fact I'll be replaced as a given when I have just as many posts in this game as you.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Your reasoning on KK is why he should be the lynch for today, at best we lynch scum, at worst we lynch a VT who hasn't being helpful at all.
/barn
It's more than acceptable to hit vanilla town with the D1 lynch if 1) the vanilla townie was being anti-town and 2) the flip provides info to run with on D2. As for 1, whether or not it came from an anti-town perspective, KK's claim was anti-town. And as for 2, if KK does flip town, PSR and the rest of KK's wagon isn't going anywhere Tomorrow.
The same can't be said for a PSR lynch, because two players claiming on D1 -- especially when the first was a vanilla claim -- is more harmful to the town than it is helpful.
@Rhand
This is D1, not D2. That would be a helpful post in a world where KK flips town, but right now you're muddying the waters.
Gah the reading and taking notes is taking more time than I expected, I can say for now this:
PSR looks scummy, but I doubt someone who is scum would do such an obvious slip up. A townie would maybe do it, assuming that people would see it as "quite obvious scum hunting by a fellow townie" but maybe he tripped in the execution? Scum would never draw as much attention to themselves. But then again something may have gone wrong for him (he might have/has a plan but it didn't work out/hasn't gone into motion yet(might have to do with his claim?)).
KK also gets lots of flak. Originally he seemed ok, but then took a turn for (maybe) scumlike behavior. I can't really tell, he just acted weird.
I won't vote yet, as I haven't finished my catching up so I don't want to screw anything with an uninformed vote, but the fact that they are still the two debated upon at this time shows that everything that comes in between is probably more of the same.
KK
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I'm with Eron. I don't think this guy is scum.
vote PSR
If KK were to flip scum, would you believe PSR is town? What about the converse, if KK flips town?
lol I just logged on bro. I generally try to comment on something when I can though.
On the PSR vs KK lynch:
I see good points on both of them. I have a stronger read on PSR, but that is admittedly biased since I haven't liked much of what he's done this phase, a good portion of it being attacking me for what I feel, and others have stated, is no reason. My problem is that I don't really know what his goal was. I don't know if he thought I was going to buckle and maybe slip and say something scummy, or what. The attack itself was scummy as hell, but I can't see what the scum motivation behind it so early in the game was. His actions since then have not helped him in my mind either but, again, bias. His deflection of arguments via "ad hom" when at least a couple people have said there was none there left a sour taste in my mouth.
As far as KK, knowing now that safe-claims are sometimes a thing here, I don't like his initial coming out and full claiming. Thalia is one of those roles that in this game I could see being a safe claim because she is so prolific both as a card and a character in the lore for Innistrad and people would expect her to be in the game. His repeated use of "I'm an honest person, you can totally trust me" type argument doesn't sit well with me either.
In short, I would be fine with either of the two of them being lynched. Your vote put him(PSR) at L-2, and from my experience last game I think that means he's supposed to full claim now? I'll hold off my vote for now on those grounds.
Are you a gimmick?
You're very convincing if you are.
Unless you're dtl or datblz.
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Yes.
That's obnoxious.
I genuinely believe you have no clue how to play as VT.
-_-
If you are town, I know you had the best of intentions in trying to look back into my completed games (which I don't have) to check for similarities and/or discrepancies in my play and see if I'm more likely to be town or scum, but I find important to clear this out right here: I'll do my best to play erratically enough through games to be considered unmetable, regardless of alignment.
That said, this wasn't my intention in this game. It occured to me because while I'm playing here for about two months, the sheer amount of resorts to meta in different games is scary and frustrating to the same time (to the point where people like PSR create a gimmick to avoid being meta'ed and people STILL insist in knowing his identity).
Meta is a good way to get a lead or close a suspicion. Nothing to build an entire case off of, but sufficiently different play or similar play can sway people one way or the other.
But that's a discussion for the theory thread.
Re: erratic play: Iso pulls it off, barely, and even he can be meta'd. (Yes, Iso. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean you don't have a meta. Shut up, I love you.) I don't suggest it, for the record.
Also, PSR is female.
I was calling PSR "she" earlier but gave up when no one else was. Do gimmicks even have a gender?
I refuse to claim.
I uh.. Don't know the protocol on this one. My gut is to vote, but I don't want a self hammer to kill discussion in case there is something I am missing.
UNVOTE
I don't know who I was voting for before.
I'm reading through the thread, im over a 6th of the way done and I started a tiny bit ago, the exam sucked btw, and Phoenix Sun Rize, what were you thinking man?!
Phoenix Sun Rise (4) HammerAndSickled, EtR, Kosakosa, infectiousbaloth
KosaKosa (6) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise, Allwinapprentice
Not voting: iPot, TheEndIsNear
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. LTR is on hold yet again until I find a replacement.
HammerAndSickled will be replaced for failing to answer prod and Allwinaprentice has been prodded and has 48 hours to respond.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Circumstantially this feels like a town answer. I've never felt surer of a KK lynch than I do now.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I think refusing to claim is anti-town. The only reason that claiming is a formality is so we don't lynch power roles by mistake. Refusing to claim, in my opinion, means VT or scum. I'm pretty comfortable with a PSR lynch now.
Hi town IB
I see we're close to hammering.
I will be needing some time to read and make conclusions.
For now unvote
Phoenixsunrise and kosakosa, can you explain in a few sentences why I should not vote you while I read up?
I know reddiquette blahblah but:
This.
@PSR: I would love to hear a town-motivated reason for you NOT to claim.
Also, Tezz, how is KK lurking at all? He posted several times yesterday.
Sure he is at L-3 now. But before EIN unvoted, he was at L-2. And the discussion was, at tye time, valid.
Truk had already been replaced by TEIN and TEIN had yet to post in the thread. There were only 4 active players with votes on PSR.
Don't mind him, he's trying to capitalize on the prod I took to justify his visions on scumMe. As if I was the only one in this game to took one.
@TMCT: The claim discussion is irrelevant. PSR has refused to claim, and I don't believe it was because the votes on him weren't "active" ones.
Oh, so you can read PSR's mind, can you?
Yes I can. It says "I'm scum".
(No, it's logical, since he posted "I refuse to claim." instead of "I refuse to claim because I'm not actually in L-2." :teach")
Besides me, HnS, TDP, Mirror, Truk, Mao, TMCT and AWA were prodded during the course of the game, some twice. Does it makes all of them lurkers? Remember we had a lot of replacements during the last couple of days, so waiting for their opinion is a good thing.
Now saying "Hi. Welcome." is considered to be "overly friendly" instead of "polite"? Especially to players that I am/was playing other games with? And since when is friendliness a reason to lynch someone or not?
IB made a question for me. I believe my answer was useful to him.
...how again am I ok with IB using meta to my benefit? I said on that post that I aim to be unmetable. I warned him to not take my completed games, which don't exist yet, as proof of anything because I will consciently play in different patterns to avoid being meta'ed, regardless of alignment.
You are being unnecessarily agressive. How about having, like, some fun?
Instead of regarding my (correct) point about PSR's claim, you choose to say how ad hom I am. Oh, the irony
Funny enough, I can't say PSR is scum but you can say I am? Double standards much?
Incorrect. I've been answering everything put forward to me. Your questions, TMCT's questions, IB's questions, etc.
Incorrect. I've pointed out more than once that PSR's /barn vote didn't rest well with me. He refused to give his reasons for voting me, simply saying it was indeed a /barn, and now has refused to claim. What other reasons do you want to believe he's scum?
Because even if I'm the lynch for today, it's stupid to rush a lynch, especially at Day 1. You are trying too hard to get myself lynched and aren't analyzing the surroundings.
I am on the phone, so I can't do a post with quotes or postnumbers.
I hope to get one done today. When is the lynch deadline?
My gut tells me that lynching KK is wrong, so I am not going to hammer.
My ideas on who is scum shifted a little from the start of the read towards the end of the read. The inactivity of many makes it hard to get a good opinion on everyone tho.
As for now, I think that the scumteam consists of PSR, mao and tetris.
I will explain why in depth when I am on a pc with some time to do it.
Got to hurry and get readyfor work now.
More from me later
Spoilered because of hugeness.
Also, can we get a vote count please?
I'm going to ignore RSV, but that didn't last long in this game
#17: PSR decides to end RSV with a naked second vote on iPot.
He then proceeds to go on a crusade against him.
iPot goes defensive and does seem scummy in doing so.
My initial thoughts after the whole back and forth flaming was that they were scumbuddies who wanted to make it clear from the start that they're not on the same team.
The outcome however shows iPot as probably town and PSR as scum.
What interests me most at this point is how the other players react here. I mark posts that lean scummy red and townish blue.
I don't mark color when something gives me a null-read.
#26: MirrorEntity gives a very townish view on the situation
#27: Kosakosa explains he dislikes Meta. This is a pro-town view: we don't want to lynch someone because of meta, giving scum the opportunity to jump ship.
#33: TMCT comments on the situation. It feels like he coaches PSR to stop attacking iPot. He literally says 'drop it' to him.
#35: JD goes on a subtle scumhunt vs PSR.
#37: TDP asks for more info on both. I don't like his tone, but it's a townish thing to do.
#38: KK shows he has a temper. This is a null tell, but warns me that his angry way of posting does not imply scumminess. He will be hard to read.
#43: TMCT shows he's still reading, but posts nothing game-related. It's the first time he posts after the post that I interpreted as coaching.
#46: Maokun posts and has absolutely nothing to say. Weird, as the current discussion is already quite heated.
#48: My predecessor shows up. I'm gonna take the liberty of not commenting his posts
#49: Tetris shows up. He does a soft attack on PSR. At the time, I read that as townish, but now (I'll explain more later on), I feel this as taking distance from a scumbuddy.
#50: Truk should have posted some more content here, but not wanting to lynch too fast sounds townish.
#53: TMTC keeps pushing Phoenix. I'm still wary of him, but if he is scum, he shows here that he'll be a though one to catch.
#55: Allwin states the obvious without adding anything. Not really a town thing to do, but not a scumtell either.
#57: Allwin adds a question that can give alot of info when answered.
#60: TMCT attacks PSR. I still have a weird feeling about him, but my ratio tells me this is townish.
#66: Truk proposes a claim. Weird, uncalled for and hurting the town.
#69: TMCT points out how scummy Truk's idea is. His response triggers my scum-radar because he doesn't push Truk more. It almost feels like coaching.
#70: Allwin makes the post TMTC should've made.
#71: Truk takes the bait. His answer makes it unseemable that TMTC and he are both scum, making the "coaching" point I made on #69 invalid. This post does not feel scummish in any way and I believe now that Truk did not propose the claim out of a scum mindset.
#72: MirrorEntity thinks the same way as me.
#76: TMTC goes very semantic here to cast a negative light on Truk.
#79: Maokun, while silent almost all game, suddenly jumps in against Truk: he's scummy. He isn't. Or yes, he is. Oh and Phoenix isn't scum. Or he is. Or maybe not.
#80: Kosakosa does his weird claim. I think he genuinly believes that claiming will expose the scum, and that by stating his alignment, town will be convinced of him being town.
#84: PSR changes his vote. I think he does that because a Truk wagon seems to have more chances to succeed than an iPot wagon at this point in the game.
#85-90: PSR and TMCT have a discussion that goes deep enough to convince me that only one of them can be scum. I think it is PSR, but if he flips town, I will definately keep my eye on TMCT.
#91: Truk posts from a town mindset. Not elegantly, but this does not sound like scum.
The following posts are more proof of Turk's town-mind and PSR's scummyness.
#98: iPot sounds very genuine here.
#101: MirrorEntity further shows his town mindset.
#102: TMCT is eager to go to claim range. He keeps pinging my Scum-radar.
#104: Truk wants more input.
#105: TDP jumps the Truk wagon out of nowhere. Apart from not supporting a mass claim, there is no reasoning for the vote.
#109: Tetris makes a post that looks big because of quotes, but he adds absolutely nothing. Very suspicious, seeing his low postcount.
#113: Tetris goes after KK. I read KK as town and think that Tetris wants to get our attention away from his scumbuddy PSR. Also, these questions won't tell us much when answered. We already know how KK view his random claim, and a flavor vs meta discussion seems pointless.
#118: Tetris finds an open goal in KK's reasoning and scores. All eyes focused on KK now and scumbuddy PSR is suddenly not so important anymore.
#119: TMCT does the same but less harsh.
#120: JD, who posts not nearly enough, seems to regard things from a town mindset.
#121: iPot asking about the safe-claim list must come from a town mindset. It would be ridiculous if a scum would point this out to us.
#122: TDP seems to be posting fro ma town mindset, altho I don't agree with his conclusions.
#124: PSR This is the post where PSR proves that he's scum. He accuses Truk from changing his opinion by telling him that a vote that is used for means other than lynching come from a non-town mindset. So what did his initial vote on iPot represent then? PSR is scum.
He timed the slip well tho: all other posters at that time, who I believe are all town, ignore his slip because they are too busy with attacking Truk.
#132: Maokun is a lurker. He decides to put people in categories because that's what a townie would do. His top scum suspects are not on my scum list. I don't understand his view on PSR.
#133: JD confirms my idea of him being town.
#134: TMCT now seems to really be town. I can't brush off the funny feeling he gives me just yet however, but I can't find rational reasons for the feeling. It's just gut.
#135: Tetris's big scumpost: The tone is agressive, the arguments are short. And most importantly, there isn't a single sentence in his post that seems to come from a town mindset. I'm convinced that this is scum trying to get a townie lynched. Furthermore, after his mini-attack against what I believe is his scumbuddie PSR, his only posts are fired at KK. He doesn't investigate other options.
#137: Maokun uses many words to say little. He says 'town shouldn't be eager to place a vote with little reason' where I would expect him to say 'I am not eager to...' or 'we shouldn't be...' . It's like he distances himself from the voting process. Scum read for me.
#144: KK is on to something here when pointing out Tetris's weird statement about inactive people. Too bad he doesn't pursue this more.
#150: Tetris makes a terrible post. What kind of townie would ever format his post like this? He is frustrated, but no one is voting him. Why is he frustrated? Tetris is scum.
I am going to skip forward a bit now; my in-depth analysis is becoming deeper than I anticipated
The part I skip is global tunelling on KK.
A player that doesn't participate in the tunelling is Allwin (but he does vote for him)
The reaction on him not being part of the tunelling is that he's perceived as scumbuddy.
Also note how much Tetris suddenly posts now that his victim of choice is being dragged to the lynch.
After that, there's a little focus on me.
#196: Truk goes against the flow, declaring he doesn't see KK being scum. His reasoning seems to come fro ma town-mindset.
#203: KK has some questions. He feels completely honest. If he does this from a scum mindset, he has got me fooled.
#204: Maokun reminds us that not only KK but also Truk are possible scum. I'm getting biased because I quite strongly believe he is part of the scum team, and this post makes sense if he is: he wants us to kill KK now and Truk on day 2 (I still think both are town). But on the other hand, his reasoning also fits a townie that really thinks KK and Truk are scum.
TDP gets replaced by EtR. I had a sleight town read from him and EtR further confirms that in his posting. I am happy that he puts PSR back in the spotlight.
I'm not going to do it post by post, but it clearly makes Tetris nervous. #228 'Why isn't this guy dead already?' is a clear sign that he needs the hammer before his buddy gets lynched.
#238: Maokun desides to step in to convince the new EtR that KK must be hammered. Sooner rather than later.
I need to skip faster now, I'm spending my whole workday on this :/
I basicly agree with most EtR says, confirming my town read on him.
Some important highlights:
#247: Tetris thanks his probable scumbuddy Maokun for a post!
#265: EtR says what I have been thinking for quite a while now: we have someone at L-1 and he isn't hammered. I think we have to indeed look for the scum on his wagon, and my suspects are all on it. Sadly, all 4 of them are, so I can't eliminate to 3.
IB replaces Truk and confirms my town read with his analysis.
Conclusion:
Scum:
PSR, Tetris
Probably scum:
Maokun
Leaning scum:
TMCT
Leaning town:
KK, iPot, TEIN
Probably town:
Allwin, JD, ETR, IB
Yes. This, so much this. Let us think about this carefully: If PSR were scum, now it would be the perfect time to present a false/safe/whatever claim; totally warranted and in fact, requested, she could definitely help her case. A town only has things to lose by claiming, on the other hand: if she's a power role, she'd be signing her death sentence for tonight. If she's vanilla, not claiming may make scum suspect she has a power role and NK her, so sparing a true PR. I'm not going to say it's definite proof of townness, but it is definitely pro-town behaviour.
And here we have our now very expected post of EtR jumping in to contradict common sense with the feeling of his gut... which seems to be quite enamoured with KK (maybe he's a great cook?)
Anyway onto my update (first post of this kind may be found here:
Heavy Scum Lean
KosaKosa: He was already in my scum list back then (around midpoint from the start of the game) and he has been very steadfastly inching his way up on my scum scale. I've seriously been trying to find holes in my own reasoning but then he helpfully makes another scum-stinking post and I'm left wondering why do I bother.
EtR: I had a pretty null read on The Dark passenger but since EtR arrived, he's been strenuously defending KK with nothing but a-priori statements that are backed but by the feeling of his gut -as he had to admit- in lieu of any substantial evidence. At the same time, he's been pushing an anti-PSR agenda that seems but a desperate effort to distract from a KK's lynch and that has almost as little foundation as his KK case.
Scum Lean
Truk: He basically disappeared from the map following the KK debacle -maybe he blames himself for causing it or was fearing to become smeared by the spillover? I guess that since scum can only communicate at night he had no way to know that KK would fall so absurdly for what seemed like a trap for nooby town PRs. He's no longer my prime suspect as he was in my previous dossier (mostly because now I have better suspects,) but I sure as hell haven't forgotten the reasons why I initially suspected him. It's unfortunate that TEIN had to join basically in AFK mode.
iPot: Back then, iPot's posts seemed erratic and purposeless to me and I just shrugged my shoulders rather than try to pry any lean from that. However, since EtR arrived, he seems to have found his way -which is subtly agree with him on most things. Whether this is because he's scum too or just because he truly believes EtR to be town and right is left to see, but since EtR is a strong scum lean for me, I'm suspecting iPot a bit too now.
50%/50%
PhoenixSunRise: In my previous post I said: "Some of his actions at the beginning seemed scummy but his posts have been great ever since, seems quite clever and aware. If scum, a great danger, if town, a great asset." This keeps being true almost exactly today as then. She sometimes has some posts that make me raise an eyebrow, but then some really clear, pro-town posts that set back my doubts. Right now, I'd say she's 51% town in my eyes.
IB: Dammit, if I hadn't have a fresh experience dealing with him, I'd put him on the scum lean because posts that are basically a random quote and then saying "Hi town" or "Scum. Vote" are super unhelpful to town in my opinion as they provide 0 information and make him appear as though he can see things that others can't but should agree with him anyway. However, now I know that's his playstyle even when he's town so I'm trying really hard to keep an open mind about him.
Rhand: I previously had a null read on HnS but afterwards he kept acting like a classical town noob. However, now he's been replaced, and Rhand swinging at first going by "his gut" following EtR's ways forces me to reconsider whatever town points HnS had gained in my eyes.
Town lean
MzztrTetris: Perhaps a bit overzealous, but definitely pro-town in all his posts. my opinion on him hasn't changed much.
Heavy Town Lean
The Most Curious Thing: I think we can all agree here?
Null Read
jdisawesomesauce: Most likely he'll be replaced. Let's hope he'll be the last one.
I would like to see you respond to the comments I made about PSR, Tetris and TMCT.
You have them all in town or 50/50 and I completely disagree with that.
First off, Welcome to IB, TEIN and Rhand!!
To answer an early question I agree and see no reason in answering why I see some people less scummy then others as this doesn't help with the goal at hand but I will delve into my notes and share my reasoning on why I view some as scummier than others.
With the addition of newer eyes coming into the game and bringing some different points to light I am finding PSR to be more scummy then KK. I find them both to be acting scummy but I do not believe they are both scum. I believe that if PSR is town then KK is scum and vice versa. Now on the matter of Truk I found him scummy before with his ideas for the mass claim but with the new players better analysis of him then mine I no longer have him leaning as strongly towards scum.
Now for why I find KK and PSR to be scummy. Some of these points have already been stated by other players but I am going to list them here so that my conclusion is complete for everyone.
PSR:
PSR ended the RVS with a vote on iPot after my vote which isn't a scum tell but then he very aggressively tried to meta iPot very early. This could of either been town or scum looking for some quick town credibility with "scum-hunting". He continues to push this wagon for a bit but then goes to state that he doesn't want iPot to be the lynch for the day while still voting and attacking iPot. And in his post he states "The town also wasn't seeing iPot's post the same way I did meaning that iPot was not going to be lynched". So based on the fact that he wasn't getting anyone to join in against someone who he finds scummy he then switches to Truk. He wants to vote Truk because Truk voted for him on the basis of a Policy Lynch Day 1. After he is on that wagon for a bit he switches to KosaKosa without any reasoning attached in a quoted post #160. From here on out he has been going for the lynch on KK but still makes comments as to how iPot is scummy and since no one is with him he rather just push a different wagon where he has people with him. I find this to be a scum behavior because if you find scum and believe they are scum then why just push someone else because people are there with you? PSR has also refused to claim which is not a scum tell but leads to alot of mystery around him and makes me what he has to hide.
KK:
KK has this game just built a list of scummy behavior and reasoning. He has tried fear-mongering to avoid his lynch, occasional lurking, as well as having some very knee jerk reactions. He also has claimed fully without the need to at all. Then states that if he avoids a NK for being VT that is good for the town but in fact this is anti town because if he is VT (which i doubt) then he has just statistically increased the random chance for the mafia to pick a town, kill them and hit a power role. Kosakosa has been a big distraction to the town either way he flips and distractions only help the scum team. For this I would agree to lynch KK for the day but as my notes stand now I think PSR is scummier. And his sarcasm and ideals that he is teaching someone what is right and wrong is just overall annoying and unhelpful in my opinion.
So with my newest analysis above:
Unvote
Vote PSR
Phoenix Sun Rise (5) EtR, Kosakosa, infectiousbaloth, iPot, Allwinapprentice
KosaKosa (5) jdisawesomesauce, MzztrTetris, The Most Curious Thing, Maokun, Phoenix Sun Rise
Not voting: TheEndIsNear, RHand
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. First LTR is on December 21st.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
In Vampire Mafia Poggydude refused to full claim until someone was willing to lay the hammer vote. There are reasons why someone wouldn't want to full claim.
You said you were fine with a KK lynch and then refuse to put him at L-1, want to explain the logic here.
Your reasoning on KK is why he should be the lynch for today, at best we lynch scum, at worst we lynch a VT who hasn't being helpful at all.
In regard to PSR, people are allowed to have more than one scum suspect.
The fact that he continues makes jabs at iPot shows some consistency in his behaviour, it means I believe he believes iPot is scum.
Also dropping a case because no-one case was on board happens all the time, I did it with IB in Gotham Underground. I brought it up every day but then would go with a different lynch, he got lynched and I was wrong. Point is him pursuing KK and not iPot is null.
The only time I was replaced was when I requested so because I couldn't continue due to medical reasons. I find it weird you take the fact I'll be replaced as a given when I have just as many posts in this game as you.
/barn
It's more than acceptable to hit vanilla town with the D1 lynch if 1) the vanilla townie was being anti-town and 2) the flip provides info to run with on D2. As for 1, whether or not it came from an anti-town perspective, KK's claim was anti-town. And as for 2, if KK does flip town, PSR and the rest of KK's wagon isn't going anywhere Tomorrow.
The same can't be said for a PSR lynch, because two players claiming on D1 -- especially when the first was a vanilla claim -- is more harmful to the town than it is helpful.
@Rhand
This is D1, not D2. That would be a helpful post in a world where KK flips town, but right now you're muddying the waters.
Rhand, I was referring to your analysis, post #347.
PSR looks scummy, but I doubt someone who is scum would do such an obvious slip up. A townie would maybe do it, assuming that people would see it as "quite obvious scum hunting by a fellow townie" but maybe he tripped in the execution? Scum would never draw as much attention to themselves. But then again something may have gone wrong for him (he might have/has a plan but it didn't work out/hasn't gone into motion yet(might have to do with his claim?)).
KK also gets lots of flak. Originally he seemed ok, but then took a turn for (maybe) scumlike behavior. I can't really tell, he just acted weird.
I won't vote yet, as I haven't finished my catching up so I don't want to screw anything with an uninformed vote, but the fact that they are still the two debated upon at this time shows that everything that comes in between is probably more of the same.
KK