MTG Salvation

Quote from Wheat_Grinder

If every time you CC someone you both turn up town, doesn't something ever go off saying "hmm, maybe I shouldn't do that anymore?"

Considering "every time" has been twice, including this game...

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Also you didn't think he was scum. You were all like "cool he's the tracker" and then you went ahead and CC'd him like two posts later.

Didn't read his full claim at first.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

Your story is rife with contradictions.

Your mom is rife with contradictions.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder »

OP shows no new deaths, even with looking for white text. 18 alive, 5 dead (not counting the pregame death), 23 altogether.

My guess: Something happened, but no deaths occurred. Whether it was a failed dayvig or some other day ability, who knows.

I saw no deaths which is why I was asking.

Quote from Wessel

What about AI makes him town in your eyes? Or is it purely because you believe him and Seppel?

Somewhat.

I don't know why Guradman would be investigated, having not read the entire game. I intend to divulge no more of my role until proven necessary.

@Arcadic: What failure?

I find it odd that a number of townsfolk have just glossed over my claim.

Quote from ganderin_dan

I find it odd that a number of townsfolk have just glossed over my claim.

What do you want? I'm tired off the fishing going on. Now your semi claiming. The only good would be catching scum from it. I really hope your not trying to get the person who targeted Guardman to come out. If Guardman was found to be scum we would see some breadcrumbs or an outright claim.

@Charm I voted Iso in my prior post.

Quote from Wessel

Oh please, please don't be angry!

Iso, the fact that you are you is a large part of why I'm not disregarding the possibility you cc'd DRey as scum. However, that requires you to regard the other players as intelligent enough to think that you might pull off such a risky and unconventional gambit. Your angry reaction makes me think you in fact do not regard your fellow players to be intelligent, which in turn makes me think you did not make a gambit, so you are in fact telling the truth.

Unvote.
So you believe his claim?
...

So Iso thinks we're dumb so he couldn't have run a gambit that could only have been detected by smart players and therefore Iso is town.

Throw Wessel in the leaning scum pile.

Keeping my vote on iso. Don't like these chain of events.

If anything I'd move it back to Wessel or Prophylaxis

Wessel

So yes, I have multiple arguments why AE is scum.

[QUOTE=Wessel
Unvote Void, vote Archmage Eternal
I'm actually more sure of AE being scum now.
[/QUOTE]
These are from day one. A strong conviction that I'm scum but ignores me today. I waited to see where he was going but after unvoting iso he leaves me alone.

Quote from Iso

Considering "every time" has been twice, including this game...

Your language sounded like there was more than twice, my bad. Still, I don't like it, especially because I just figured out you mean Legend of Aang when you say last time.

Didn't read his full claim at first.

Okay.

Your mom is rife with contradictions.

kobe.gif

Quote from ganderin_dan

I find it odd that a number of townsfolk have just glossed over my claim.

Are you looking for some sort of reaction?

I think counterclaims should at least be acknowledged, as it creates a very clear dichotomy.

I don't want the cop to come out. I'm just using the existence of one, as well as my self & DRey, to point out that it is unlikely we have a 4th full information role.

Quote from ganderin_dan

I think counterclaims should at least be acknowledged, as it creates a very clear dichotomy.

I don't want the cop to come out. I'm just using the existence of one, as well as my self & DRey, to point out that it is unlikely we have a 4th full information role.

I've seen too many false dichotomies and modgames gone wrong lately. I just can't abide by that reasoning.

Oh, I forgot about that game.

Make that three times, then. (Random Mafia 4)

Dan's claim almost specifically counterclaims both Iso and DRey at the same time.

DRey: Town Ability Tracker
Iso: ??? Tracker
Dan: ??? Ability Watcher

Quote from Deaths_Vampire

@ Seppel did you manage to pair with AI last night? If so do you obtain any abilities?

I didn't gain any abilities, but AI did.

Quote from Iso

Seppel, that does not answer my question.

Well, you'll just have to ask the question again.

Quote from Iso

Bravo, everyone. *Slow clap* You're only shafting yourselves.

Why aren't they shafting you?

Quote from Arnnaria

I was pretty adamant that Iso and Gricky were in a Mexican standoff Day One and both were town.

Then the counterclaim came and DRey flipped town. This made me lean a bit.

Then the roleblock claim came. This could be suspicious or the fact that the scum knew he was a PR due to his own admission and blocked him.

Now, Dan is claiming an investigative role. Which casts scum on Iso and leaves Dan open to a possible RB.

I need more information on Iso and Dan's counter-counterclaim before I feel comfortable in changing my Day One pre-claim stance on Iso.

Those are my thoughts, except I had a townread on Gricky and a nullread on Iso D1.

I don't really like Iso's outburst. It feels very forced and meant to browbeat people away from his wagon more than dissuade them.

Quote from ganderin_dan

And, I'm not sure whether coming out with this or not is correct, but I'm going to. I can confirm that Iso is not the only other information role, as an alignment cop investigated Guardman last night. I do not know the result.

I can confirm that this is what happened, but I am not the cop. I'm a one night masoner and I happened to mason the cop.

Quote from Audinho

Was anyone else roleblocked? Also, there's something in that claim that makes a lot of sense with my pm.

Also, I'm getting tired of this town stringing up people I believe to be town. I feel so powerless against the throng of experienced players which apparently see scum where I see townie stuff.

I see absolutely no reason not to vote Megiddo. His active lurking is highly suspicious, and the ones saying that it's not is spewing rubbish. If he flips town then it's a good informationlynch imho.

vote Megiddo

Who else do you suspect? You rail on against Meg so very often that I forget who else you are looking at in this game.

Quote from Arcadic

oh look a page 38! Hate it when i do that.

Iso ragequit and OMGUS'd his way into being town? Please.

Almost positive Gricky and Audihno are scum with the way they are completely ignoring the Iso wagon.

Also, G_D please elaborate the flavor of the failure.

So, you think I'm scumbuddies with the first player that I wall-cased (Aud) because I'm not paying my main attention to the second player I wall-cased (Iso), even though I not only wallcased them both but I also stated that my vote is either on AI or Iso? This makes no sense. I'm more than willing to vote Iso and AI equally. With the way the town is shifting, I'm considering going back to my ORIGINAL Iso vote. Remember? I voted Iso first, then had my second thoughts. What are you reading?

Quote from Archmage Eternal

Now can Wheat flip flop any harder?

This. Very much this.

Quote from Cyouni

I need to actually think on Wheat_Grinder

Agreed. I think W_G is a good place to look in the coming few days.

Quote from Seppel

Dan's claim almost specifically counterclaims both Iso and DRey at the same time.

DRey: Town Ability Tracker
Iso: ??? Tracker
Dan: ??? Ability Watcher

Don't paint Iso as anything other than what he claimed. He countered Tracker with Rolecop. He claimed rolecop. In hindsight, how is that even a CC? Some BS about how there couldn't be that many information roles in the game? There are 22 players! How many information roles did Iso expect? And more than likely, if the town is stacked with powerful information roles, so is the scum. The most powerful information role for scum is Rolecop. Given what I know and what Ganderin Dan knows/is, I'm thinking there's no shadow of a doubt that Iso is scum.

Still support an AI lynch, but Unvote, Vote Iso, because we can always still vig AI/Seppel.

I don't feel like I've caught up like I wanted to, it was just a quick rundown of the last few pages. Expect more this weekend.

And then Gricky flops again. Imagine that.

Seppel, my question to you was how am I towntelling?

Quote from Guardman

I don't really like Iso's outburst. It feels very forced and meant to browbeat people away from his wagon more than dissuade them.

When have you ever seen Iso try to dissuade people instead of browbeat them.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

I can confirm that this is what happened, but I am not the cop. I'm a one night masoner and I happened to mason the cop.

Well awesome.

This doesn't confirm Dan's alignment, though.

Though a 1-shot masoner does suggest a number of information roles.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

Don't paint Iso as anything other than what he claimed. He countered Tracker with Rolecop. He claimed rolecop. In hindsight, how is that even a CC?

Iso claimed rolecop?

Quote from GrickyTimmick

And more than likely, if the town is stacked with powerful information roles, so is the scum. The most powerful information role for scum is Rolecop.

You're wrong. Dan's role is more powerful than Rolecop for scum.

Quote from Iso

And then Gricky flops again. Imagine that.

Seppel, my question to you was how am I towntelling?

You read as if you're expressing genuine frustration.

Why aren't they shafting you?

Quote from Seppel

When have you ever seen Iso try to dissuade people instead of browbeat them.

Unfortunately valid.

Quote from Iso

Oh, I forgot about that game.

Make that three times, then. (Random Mafia 4)

Awesome, my points work even better then.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

I can confirm that this is what happened, but I am not the cop. I'm a one night masoner and I happened to mason the cop.

Can we all stop giving out our roles for no reason please?

Quote from Seppel

Well awesome.

This doesn't confirm Dan's alignment, though.

Though a 1-shot masoner does suggest a number of information roles.

Not trying to verify Dan's alignment. Only saying that what he's saying is the truth.

I'm not a one shot masoner. I'm a one night masoner. I mason a different person every night. I can't mason the same person unless I've masoned every living player at least once already. I can choose not to mason as well.

Quote from Seppel

Iso claimed rolecop?

Yes. It's late and I'm about to sleep, or I would find it for you.

Quote from Seppel

You're wrong. Dan's role is more powerful than Rolecop for scum.

If what I'm reading is right, Dan's a watcher. How's that more powerful? Rolecop is "Hey, this person has these abilities!" Watcher only cares about what targeted their target. Doesn't seem like scum have much interest in that.

Also, as for Iso's "Grickyflop" argument, this is amusing mudslinging. I said early on that AI or Iso has my vote. The AI situation is pandering at the moment, but suddenly people are starting to write Iso off as town. I had the information that Ganderin had and was going to post it, but was obviously nathed on that front. I'm very certain that Iso's scum and with the town making excuses for him and looking elsewhere, I decided to shift back to Iso. That is where the pressure needs to be. There's no flopping going on here, I'm spelling out exactly what I'm going to be doing before I do it.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder

Can we all stop giving out our roles for no reason please?

It's not without reason. Iso is very likely scum and the town should aim to avoid a mislynch today. My claim helps to add validity that Iso is scum and aim the town in the right direction, rather than possibly veer off course.

This game is a trainwreck.

You are flopping Gricky.

Not really Wheat.

Because I'm not a Neutral, Seppel, and I'd like to think that my comrades aren't going to be so incompetent as to not analyze my wagon when I am dead.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

If what I'm reading is right, Dan's a watcher. How's that more powerful? Rolecop is "Hey, this person has these abilities!" Watcher only cares about what targeted their target. Doesn't seem like scum have much interest in that.

Watcher is always more powerful to mafia than tracker.

If you don't know why, please ask and I'll explain.

The point still stands, Dan's role is more powerful for scum than Iso's.

Quote from Iso

Because I'm not a Neutral, Seppel, and I'd like to think that my comrades aren't going to be so incompetent as to not analyze my wagon when I am dead.

But then they WOULD be shafting you if they're on the same team as you.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

I'm not a one shot masoner. I'm a one night masoner. I mason a different person every night. I can't mason the same person unless I've masoned every living player at least once already. I can choose not to mason as well.

Not a fan of you claiming at this point, but seeing as how you already have, you should target Seppel or myself tonight. It will lead to cool things.

Not if they fail at shafting themselves, Seppel.

Care to share with the class, Cyouni?

Ugh. I am tremendously stressed IRL. I will be taking a day or two off of all of my games.

If you need me, I'll be in my trailer.

* Iso the slams door on his way out and breaks all of the windows doing so.

* Iso , upon realizing his typo, re-opens the door and slams it properly this time.

lost my post in progress.

want to point out a few things.

One: Keep an eye on Arnnaria. His vote on me reeks of opportunism ("two people voting? wagon must be valid votevotevotevotevote"). Also, if you look closely, Arn didn't read the post he is accusing me of not reading.

Also, anybody who thinks I didn't read the post I quoted seriously needs to think about what they are saying. I took the time to crop out everything from that post but his reads. I certainly read them while I was doing this!

I thought that we should examine the reads since I was thinking that a confirmed town player's reads would be useful. Now, AI raises the point that drey's reads being mostly unsubstantiated is what got him lynched, and on that I have to agree. I was going to analyze them but got about as far as him calling cyouni scum before I stopped reading. At this point, I'll concede that analyzing his reads is probably a waste of time.

Two: I want to lynch Prophylaxis. Analysis of his posts is in the second half of this post.

Also, oog to prophy, you do realize that quote you posted is from an ongoing game, right? Consider the implications of what you just did.


cyouni asked me for reads. I don't have my thoughts together on everybody, but here's what stands out:

GrickyTimmick: So, yesterday I had been saying that I wasn't sure what to make of your text war with Iso. Since then, you've been making more sense. Looking forward to more from you. Why do you want to lynch AI though?

Seppel: Obviously has claimed neutral, but I have him in my town column. He said he was townsiding and was very active in terms of scumhunting and generating discussion Yesterday (and Today as well). Unless he suddenly becomes a threat, I am happy to have him around.

AsianInvasion: If I'm trusting Seppel, I'm certainly trusting you. I don't buy that you and he are running some sort of scum gambit. Seems too easy to expose through literally any investigative or killing ability. Or maybe I'm just not paranoid enough?

Iso: I'm finding it harder to keep saying "iso's being iso." You say you can't be meta'd, so I guess I really can't, huh? I'll say this much: I don't think you're scum. That reaction just now strikes me as genuine frustration with the game. The issue of the CCs and roleblock is kind of a problem, but I'm not willing to string you up based on modgaming a specialty.

Audinho: Still bumbling. Also, voting cyouni? I feel like you're sort of tunneling your scumhunting into wagon analysis, which is useful but not the only thing to look at.

Arnnaria: Opportunistic vote on me, though other than that I can't think of too much that was problematic. IGMEOY.

Prophylaxis: scum. see below.


If your name isn't on there list I either think you are town and have nothing interesting to say or just don't have anything concrete right now. Sorry. If you want more detail on somebody (even unlisted) just ask.



Given prophy's behavior Today, I thought I would go and review what he's been doing this whole game. Since he only has 13 posts, it shouldn't take long.

77: I thought this was standard prodding of suspicious behavior, but Iso voted him for it ("Basically, the entire post reads to me as fluff, fishing, and giving Proph many outs without him having to stick to anything solid."). I reread, and Iso has a point: Prophy was probing the game without really taking a stand on anything. Read his comment on void's post. Classic "pointing out something odd, but not willing to stick my neck out" behavior.
83: Audinho voted void for using the emoticon in an early post, which void did as scum in another game. Prophy calls audi out on this, saying it is wifom. I think that this is an incorrect use of the term on prophy's part. In his next post (86), prophy (correctly) states that void's alignment in a previous game does not have bearing on his alignment in this one. He ignores, however, the fact that it is a meta point given that void's behavior as scum in the previous game is being repeated. I don't put much weight on the emoticon tell itself (and as we've seen void was in fact town in this game) but the fact that prophy seemed to miss the point entirely is something of note.
361: Translates a wheat post for Iso, says he's rereading...
362 is just him complaining about getting nathed on the translation.
532: Here he is back with more content. This is where he latches on to the case on me. His reasoning? He has done the same thing himself as scum. But... he didn't actually vote anybody. He listed two candidates, me and tordeck, and didn't vote.
647: Now, 100 posts later, he's back with this vote on me. "The reasons are in my previous post," he says. Well, let's look again:
Reasons Prophy Voted Me:
1. He fos'd somebody as scum once. Of course, his behavior as scum is indicative of my alignment because... why again?
2. I voted D_V because he proposed a D1 mass claim and was "worrying about the SK). This was called "low hanging fruit" by prophy.
And... that's it.
Pretty weak. I feel like, if anything, prophy found a nice wagon to latch onto and hopped right on.
1321: Returns from vacation, promises to reread.
1583: As AE helpfully points out, prophy has lost touch with the game and clearly is not reading. All he does is slap that vote back on me, with no additional reasoning or consideration for the rest of the game at the time.
1786: And again.
1789: Asks what "AWC" means and jokes with seppel: a fluff post if I've ever seen one.
1846: Just now gets around to responding to AE back from 200 posts ago. Admits he is procrastinating building a case on tordeck. Quotes me from another (ongoing!!!) game describing my town play. I don't recall ever saying I was trying a new playing style, either. If anything, what I'm doing is consistent with that statement since I still really don't know what's going on. Once I have a better grip on things, my posting will likely speed up. That said, I have figured one thing out: You're scum.
1874: And his most recent post, simply pointing out to seppel that he voted me twice Today because the VC was reset in between.

So, to summarize:
1. Active lurking more than I have been, something which has earned me a wagon.
2. When he does post? Mostly fluff.
3. Votes with little reasoning and no effort to build a case.

To me it feels like prophy decided to find a wagon he could attach himself to and just float along. By doing this, he's also avoided being on any of the major wagons so far.

I said it before, and I'll say it again: I'm getting echoes of your scum play in Ghost Story.

vote prophylaxis

Mason me first, bro.

Tossing Gricky onto the town pile. Keep 'em coming.

What does irony/hypocracy do to you to display as a towntell?

Players that are transparently town, to the second question.

Megiddo's case does nothing for me. Not that I'm confident that Proph is town, as I have no read on him currently, but the case is very uninspiring (a lack of evidence hurts that, as well).

I do too. Why aren't you voting him?

Unvote, vote Proph.

That's going to take forever.

I'll try, but it's not going to be easy.

Quote from GrickyTimmick

Who else do you suspect? You rail on against Meg so very often that I forget who else you are looking at in this game.

I earlier suspected Cyuoni, but I've revised my opinion on him. He is town.
Wheat Grinder is very possibly scum, jumping wagons like a bunnyrabbit and generally his posting seems "off".

That beeing said, I liked Megiddos latest post, but I'm uncertain if he might be scum diverting his own wagon over to Proph. They are however both active lurking, so either lynch here is fine by me.

I'm wary of Wessel as well.

/replace out. Too much crap going on in my life right now than to play a silly message board game. I'm sorry I have to do this, but my brother is in the hospital for god knows how long and it's "my fault" he's there. Sorry guys. I thought I could make it on fumes alone. If you need an explanation (mod), please PM me.

...yeah, that's a thing that really takes priority over forum mafia. I'll put the word out for a replacement now. I hope everything works out for you.

lynch proph

Quote from Arnnaria

/replace out. Too much crap going on in my life right now than to play a silly message board game. I'm sorry I have to do this, but my brother is in the hospital for god knows how long and it's "my fault" he's there. Sorry guys. I thought I could make it on fumes alone. If you need an explanation (mod), please PM me.

god be with you

Quote from Iso

It's not necessarily that I don't think you guys are intelligent. I just don't think that anybody voting for me has really put much thought into WHY they're voting for me.

As for dan's claim, I currently have no reason to disbelieve it.

So, your mad because you believe your case is bad but instead of defending against all the actions that painted you scummy, you rage and call the wagon idiots. Tell me again about how you are town?

Quote from Wheat_Grinder

This coming on the heels of "DRey cannot possibly be town" because of the role being too similar, I'm not inclined to believe you're town.

And if the last time you CC'd someone you were both town, then why did you CC this time?

Because Iso is the mafia grandmaster of all time and nothing he does can ever be explained, meta'd or talked about?

Quote from ganderin_dan

@Arcadic: What failure?

I read your claim as a cop claiming to have failed to get a result, not that you saw a cop getting a result. My Bad.

Quote from ganderin_dan

I think counterclaims should at least be acknowledged, as it creates a very clear dichotomy.

I don't want the cop to come out. I'm just using the existence of one, as well as my self & DRey, to point out that it is unlikely we have a 4th full information role.

It is important to note here that g_d did the RIGHT thing and didn't cc the CC of iso day 1.

Quote from Seppel

Dan's claim almost specifically counterclaims both Iso and DRey at the same time.

Already been noted, but Iso claimed rolecop, not tracker. I honestly cannot fathom why a townie Iso would CC there, Drey was already on the way to his grave.

Quote from Seppel

You read as if you're expressing genuine frustration.

Why aren't they shafting you?

Huge scumtell here. Iso is showing contempt for his wagon saying they are screwing themselves, not the town. Ergo, Iso is not town due to this statement. Afterall, how can the town shaft themselves and not shaft a townie Iso at the same time?

Quote from Guardman

Unfortunately valid.

Valid how? That town Iso responds like this all the time? That scum Iso never responds like this? I can tell you that Iso did not react this way to his wagon in The Family Mafia, he pretty much rolled over and took it.

Quote from Iso

Because I'm not a Neutral, Seppel, and I'd like to think that my comrades aren't going to be so incompetent as to not analyze my wagon when I am dead.

Except that's not what you said. You said the people voting you were screwing themselves over, not you.

Quote from Seppel

But then they WOULD be shafting you if they're on the same team as you.

/barn.

I see no reason not to continue with Iso's lynch and if anyone has a good reason for us not to, now is the time. Iso going on leave at this time is certainly not going to disuade me from pushing this wagon, because Iso wants exactly that, for us to move on from wanting him lynched today.

Quote from Arcadic

Valid how? That town Iso responds like this all the time? That scum Iso never responds like this? I can tell you that Iso did not react this way to his wagon in The Family Mafia, he pretty much rolled over and took it.

Valid in that him browbeating is not indicative of alignment.

Quote from Wessel

...
So if you can't fathom a townie would CC someone already on the way to his grave, why would a scum do that?

Maybe there is something to this, I'll look at the timing of the CC

I read and reread and I just don't see. The case is on proph is okay, but there's not really much to go on. (Yes yes I know post more, lurk less. Pot - kettle) Plus Meg is most likely scum.

Quote from AsianInvasion

Not a fan of you claiming at this point, but seeing as how you already have, you should target Seppel or myself tonight. It will lead to cool things.

I'm reminded of the imagery of a older white male with a van enticing young children with candy. Why the hell would I target you? Because of unconfirmed promises of sweet abilities? It's gotta be better than that.

Quote from Wessel

1. Why did you tell this?

2. Do you have a death wish?

1. To help catch scum and refocus the town. Iso is a major suspect and people are starting to forget/ignore this fact. My AI idea didn't catch with the town and as AE has pointed out, the same vigging plan I had for Iso can be made true with AI too. So I reveal my evidence, more on the pile that says "Iso is scum" and hopefully get the message through that, hey guys, Iso is scum.

2. Sure. Let the scum NK me. I've got like no ability. There's no way of knowing whether I target town or scum with my masonry, I'm just going off of my reads. I trust my reads, but once again, I can't retarget anyone, so eventually I'm forced to either target scum or nobody at all, effectively making me vanilla. If I target scum, they can WIFOM me hard and use the masonry against me. If I target nobody, I'm vanilla town. If I target town WOOO I'M MASONS WITH A TOWN FOR A NIGHT! Kill me and there's one more night that the Cop/Doc/other power roles can live.

Quote from ganderin_dan

Mason me first, bro.

Tossing Gricky onto the town pile. Keep 'em coming.

Mmm, see my response to AI for trying to aim me. You are slightly more townie that AI, since I can verify that you are telling the truth about your night actions, but I'm not going to be sold based on that alone.

Why the clamor to be masoned? I'm really trying to figure that one out.

I will whisper sweet nothings into your ear.

Quote from Seppel

Watcher is always more powerful to mafia than tracker.

Are you doing this on purpose? iso is a rolecop.

Quote from Seppel

lynch proph

After iso.

Quote from Infinis

Maybe there is something to this, I'll look at the timing of the CC

I read and reread and I just don't see. The case is on proph is okay, but there's not really much to go on. (Yes yes I know post more, lurk less. Pot - kettle) Plus Meg is most likely scum.

I can't recall you doing anything in this game. Thats not a good thing, and not a town tell of yours.


I feel iso realizes he screwed up in his plans and is all pissed off for it, and thats what we're seeing now. I'm not moving my vote and call for more votes on iso.

"screwed up his plans"

what "plan" is this? moreover, how does it make him scum?

I am unsure what you are suggesting that Iso was trying to do here.

Quote from Wessel

@Seppel: You say gan_dan CC'd both DRey and Iso, but that is not so. Take a look at what everybody claimed so far:

Void: 3-shot Oracle(?)
DRey: Tracker + Follower
Iso: Rolecop
gan_dan: Voyeur
Gricky_Timmick: One-night (unlimited) Neighborizer(?)
Player X: Cop

I can see how Iso might have thought the follower part of DRey's role was in conflict with his own role. But gan_dan's role actually complements their roles. If we believe gan_dan and Gricky, there are many investigative roles, which makes me think it's likely that all these roles are featured in this game.

If that's true...

Quote from Wessel

How did your claim proof that Iso is scum? In fact, what it proofs is that this is an investigation heavy game. With Void, DRey, Iso, gan_dan, the alignment cop, and now you. Anyway, I'm inclined to believe you. Btw, just FYI, I also think I might know who the alignment cop is, but I'm not going to tell who I think it is unless that person is going to be close to being lynched.

...then do you think that they're all town? If so, why/how?

Currently moving. Will be done with it all by Monday till Wednesday at the latest.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that all those roles are town.

Explain a voyeur to me, Wessel?

Quote from Wessel

I think your role is very strong. Basically you're a weaker cop (because you're not 100% sure on what your target might be telling you), but with the added ability that you can talk to your target - that is really valuable. With a townie, you're basically a cop with the added bonus of being able to talk about your views of the game. And even if you target scum, that scum must fabricate a claim to you, which might move the scum into a direction he/she might later regret.

But I'm not a cop at all. I don't know anything about a player's alignment, other than what they tell me. I could target scum, they lie about their alignment and get me thinking they are strong town and then I'm defending them to high heaven in the thread. If scum can mislead one town, they have an easier time misleading all town. Which is why I have to be careful about my ability. To paint me as anything close to a cop is to misunderstand my role completely.

Quote from Megiddo

"screwed up his plans"

what "plan" is this? moreover, how does it make him scum?

I am unsure what you are suggesting that Iso was trying to do here.

Does agenda work better? I don't trust him. He saw an opportunity and took a chance. Remember that high horse quote I did? He's falling off it.