Again with the people not reading or purposely avoiding the truth to sling mud.
Meta or not, its still scummy and I will always vote on it. Your actions since then just solidify my initial read.
Kpaca is a neutral and will do whatever the hell he cares to because of that. Jumping on low hanging fruit is a null tell then. And wheaties I had leaning town and dropped him to a neutral read because of his vote. Unlike you he actually had town actions up until that point, thats why he didnt drop all the way to scum.
Keep flailing scum. you'll die right after your buddy Iso.
A) Didn't answer the question I asked. IE how is Iso's REACTION scummy.
EBWODP: Just noticed, the moderator didn't put an example town win condition in the first post. Any townie should be able to confirm that I'm town from that now.
Nah. In my games, I provide the scum with the town win condition AND put it in the OP. I wouldn't say you're cleared, but there are better suspects to pursue.
Your first reaction is to come up with a convoluted reason as to why he is lying.
From what I can tell, after this point Tordeck and Iso go back and forth arguing about this. I'm pretty sure this is about as detailed as Tordeck gets regarding this issue. He restates the point, but after that we kind of devolved into Tordeck's trolling for reactions. If I missed a fuller explanation of the point, please point it out to me, since I could not find it.
Anyway, there it is, Tordeck's actual case.
Next up is the posting meta, which I misunderstood to be Iso's behavioral rather than the actual volume of posts, which was what Tordeck meant. post 636 has Tordeck's case.
Iso did rebut this argument, though.
So, I went to do my own research.
Using Iso's blog, I have pulled all of his post counts from all of his completed games at the time he left the game (whether due to completion or death or otherwise). I have omitted all postgame posting from these calculations. I have also omitted all ongoing games regardless of Iso's status in those games, as I do not wish to discuss ongoing games in any fashion. If Iso replaced in, the count started from when the replacement was announced.
Town games: Iji
1468 posts
Iso: 206 posts, second place; ~14% of total posts. First was MandersHex with 208.
Endgamed.
Hetalia
3542 Posts
Iso: 378 posts, second place; >10% of total posts. First was Sir Mu with 485.
Lynched at endgame.
Super Mario World
206 posts at the end of D1
Iso: 54 posts, ??? place; ~25% of total posts
Lynched D1
Star Trek Myriad Universes II
1203 posts at the beginning of D2
Iso: 118 posts, ??? place; ~10% of applicable posts
Vigged N1
Agatha Christie
1147 posts
Iso: 162 posts, third place; >14% of total posts. First was yanni with 280 and second was Burstinatrix with 216.
Endgamed
Flame Warriors
4773 posts at end of D4
Iso: 776 posts, ??? place; >16% of total posts.
Lynched D4
300
430 posts from replacing in to death
Iso: 63 posts, ??? place; >14% of applicable posts.
Replaced in, vigged N2
Supernatural
388 posts at the beginning of D4
Iso: 70 posts, ??? place; 18% of applicable posts.
Vigged N3
Cyan's Impossible
Somebody has to explain to me what is going on with this game because
It appears that Iso was only in the Alternate Universe game, so that's what I'm looking at.
1259 posts at the beginning of D4
Iso: 369 posts, ??? place; 30% of applicable posts
NK'd N3
Monster Island
1445 posts
Iso: 303 posts, first place; >20% of total posts
Lynched at endgame
The Magic School Bus
887 posts at the beginning of D3
Iso: 132 posts, ??? place; ~15% of total posts
NK'd N2
Pulp Fiction
69 posts from replacing in to endgame
Iso: 25 posts, ??? place; 36% of applicable posts
Endgamed
Osteria
1122 posts
Iso: 244 posts, first place; >21% of total posts
Endgamed
Seasons
2828 posts at the beginning of D4
564 posts, ??? place; ~20% of applicable posts
NK'd N3
Random 4
589 posts at the end of D3
Iso: 157 posts, ??? place; >26% of applicable posts
Lynched D3
Kitteh Trek
718 posts when Iso was modkilled
Iso: 127 posts, ??? place; >17% of applicable posts
Modkilled D2
Modern Family
820 posts at the end of D2
Iso: 209 posts, ??? place; >25% of applicable posts
Lynched D2
Peso de Grande
977 posts
Iso: 289 posts, first place; ~30% of total posts
Endgamed
Mean Girls
1462 posts
Iso: 352 posts, first place, 24% of total posts
Endgamed
Homestuck
1065 posts
Iso: 300 posts, first place; 28% of total posts
Endgamed
Avatar: The Legend of Aang
1802 posts
Iso: 248 posts, tied for first; >13% of total posts. poggydude also had 248 posts
Lynched at endgame
Scum Games: Amnesia
2100 posts
Iso: 496 posts, first place; >23% of total posts.
Endgamed
Star Trek Myriad Universes II (again)
Iso also replaced back in later in the game as scum.
There were 770 posts during this latter period where Iso was alive.
Iso: 155 posts, ??? place; 20% of applicable posts.
Lynched D3.
Starcraft
3288 posts from replacing in to endgame,
Iso: 526 posts, ??? place; 16% of applicable posts
Endgamed
1984
1579 posts
Iso: 299 posts, first place, 19% of total posts
Endgamed
Cyberpunk
532 posts at end of D1
Iso: 96 posts, ??? place, 18% of applicable posts
Lynched D1
Triskelion
1179 posts
Iso: 253 posts, first place, ~21% of total posts
Endgamed
Other Games Star Trek: Voyager
250 posts
Iso: 28 posts, ??? place, ~11% of applicable posts
Lynched D1
Analysis:
First, there are some confounding variables, such as who was in the game, number of players in the game, relative post count compared to other players in games he did not complete (I don't have infinite time), and things I may not even be aware of, but I believe that the average percentage of total posts while active is a good enough data point to do a comparison of his town and scum posting habits.
The results?
As town, Iso has, on average, 20.28% of the posts while he is active over 21 games.
As scum, a smaller sample size, he has 19.5% of the posts while he is active over 5 games. If we add in his cult leader game (where we established he was trying to get lynched), that drops the average to 18.28% over six games.
I can't call 20.28 and 19.5 different enough to say he can be meta'd based on post count. Even 18.28 is not really good enough, since he's never had less than 10% of the posts in his games.
Let's look at the current game: Magical Girl (as of this post)
870 posts
Iso: 49 posts, 8th place; 5% of total posts
This game it seems he is drastically lower than his normal posting. What's different? I don't know. I suspect that it's a null tell, if anything. In my opinion, the fact that Iso's post rate is significantly lower this game is not indicative of his alignment.
While he does have a slightly lower average post rate as scum, it's not different enough to be able to say that what he's doing this game is in line with any post count-based meta case.
This brings me back to Tordeck's case:
Gut: Sure.
Meta: Not applicable according to my analysis.
Reaction: Still viable.
The overall case is weaker than Tordeck is making it out to be (losing an entire third), I think, but still viable depending on how strong the reaction to DH's claim is as evidence. Tordeck hasn't done much to back it up, though.
Things to do: Explore Iso's reaction to DH's claim, as that is the only piece of Tordeck's case that is both real and possible to discuss.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Nah. In my games, I provide the scum with the town win condition AND put it in the OP. I wouldn't say you're cleared, but there are better suspects to pursue.
Like Megiddo. And Prophylaxis. And Gricky.
There really isn't anything convoluted about that. That is pretty standard play for mods. Pretty common to have this happen.
Besides what about that makes it a scummy response? Its a true response. He was right that the win con didn't clear DH.
If that is all you have its a pretty terribad case. Gut is fine, but you don't have me sold on that.
There really isn't anything convoluted about that. That is pretty standard play for mods. Pretty common to have this happen.
To seeing a player potentially modkilled for quoting a PM and his first response was "oh i give scum the wincon all the time". Thats convoluted and attempting to paint a picture that wasnt there. DH was long since cleared and Iso still pressed the case. Thats scummy
Also can you please answer my other questions.
If you dont know what flailing means you need to quit mafia. And every post of yours since my last TSI has been you flailing if you need examples.
Oh and Meg, nice work on that Iso meta thing. I guess when you expand it too include all his games its not as big a margin. But I specifically only use meta I have seen first hand, since its a lot easier to remember and figure out what was happening when in the games in question. So with the smaller sample size it worked out in my head. Cyberpunk was the one outlier but that was also a game where Iso knew there were two scum teams and was attempting to scumhunt them, so I chalked it up to that.
PS, someone remind me after this game to never ever play with D_V again. He makes the game totally unenjoyable. Bah!
To seeing a player potentially modkilled for quoting a PM and his first response was "oh i give scum the wincon all the time". Thats convoluted and attempting to paint a picture that wasnt there. DH was long since cleared and Iso still pressed the case. Thats scummy
If you dont know what flailing means you need to quit mafia. And every post of yours since my last TSI has been you flailing if you need examples.
Give a nice contextual example of flailing please.
How is what I am doing flailing?
I did ask this.
I think you don't understand the concept of flailing and I am calling you out on it.
Are you kidding? D_V is such a cute and lovable character.
Oh but I am a massive jerk to those that can't substantiate an argument. I don't stand for lurkers and I definitely don't stand for people lurking in plain sight.
Tordecks just madz because I won't let him play like trash. Hes obviously intelligent with some of the posts he makes, but other times he posts like a complete idiot. Hopefully the policy lynch wagon was a wake up call. I really can't tell if he is scum or not, part of the reason I am questioning him so hard. You know my methods.
YOU ARE JOKING RIGHT? Think about what you just said.
Dude, think about the argument he's making. "I can't be meta'd" has no exceptions. I don't care if he finds 100 or 1000 examples of him being poorly meta'd, if one case exists where someone meta'd him successfully, then clearly, he can be meta'd. Since I know there's not 100 or 1000 examples, I don't have to worry about the outrageous odds for correctly meta'ing someone. Still, even if there were, all I would have to do is follow the pattern of the one person who did.
Furthermore, him telling me Meta doesn't work isn't a defense. He's trying to use his supposed meta immunity to argue that my meta reads are bunk, which is illogical because we won't know if meta works or not until he flips something, and aside from the meta I have actual in-game arguments against him too. He's focusing on a minor issue and blowing it up as a distraction.
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Oh but I am a massive jerk to those that can't substantiate an argument. I don't stand for lurkers and I definitely don't stand for people lurking in plain sight.
Tordecks just madz because I won't let him play like trash. Hes obviously intelligent with some of the posts he makes, but other times he posts like a complete idiot. Hopefully the policy lynch wagon was a wake up call. I really can't tell if he is scum or not, part of the reason I am questioning him so hard. You know my methods.
Yo dawg, remember that bit that Charm was saying, about being nicer while going at each other's throats.
Well, you are part of the problem, not the solution. Be cool dawg, be cool...
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
This scenario seems to be the one that everyone is going after. I still read Iso as town, but most people have accepted this one. The most notable person fighting for this scenario is Tordeck; he's so sure Iso is scum that he is willing to kamikaze himself to get rid of him.
Iso is town; Gricky is scum
Plausibility: 20%
This scenario seems a bit weaker. However, while I can see Gricky 1:1-ing himself in the previous scenario, I can't see Iso doing the same. Iso is resilient and likes to stay alive. But he's clamped onto Megiddo and is not letting go; Which boggles my mind why Gricky would put himself "on the line" to protect his "scum buddy" Megiddo.
Both Iso and Gricky are town
Plausbility: 40%
This is the most likely scenario for me. Why? If one or the other was scum, I doubt they'd be so adamant at 1:1-ing each other or protecting their scum buddies at this point in the game so adamantly.
Dude, think about the argument he's making. "I can't be meta'd" has no exceptions. I don't care if he finds 100 or 1000 examples of him being poorly meta'd, if one case exists where someone meta'd him successfully, then clearly, he can be meta'd. Since I know there's not 100 or 1000 examples, I don't have to worry about the outrageous odds for correctly meta'ing someone. Still, even if there were, all I would have to do is follow the pattern of the one person who did.
A meta that works 10% of the time is more aptly called a "coincidence."
It should also only influence your decision on him by 10%. Give is more to work with to raise that % higher.
You flopping on them now doesn't matter, although flop-to-get-out-of-valid-point noted. What matters is that at one point tunneled your Meg case so hard that you included everyone who disagreed with it into your scumpile. It indicates that you aren't trying, moreso than the weak case did to begin with. It's also very OMGUS of you, and since the points against us are all tied to the case on Meg, they are weaker by extension, yet you defend these reads as if you put tons of effort into them.
Thing is, you're misconstruing my arguments against those people. You're saying that because they disagreed with my Megiddo case, that I thought they were scum - it's not a flop at all, it's simply not true.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Well gee, if it's happened more than once, then why didn't you say that in the first place? First, you should go find those instances. Second, why bother posting just one example when you know it's not going to be enough to prove that you can't be meta'd? Why not just throw out all the examples you can think of, clearly you know of some others since you sound so confidant that others exist.
Because that was the most recent example aside from this game (and obviously I can't use my alignment in this game as an example) and it was the first one that came to the top of my head. But sure, I'll find every meta argument I can against me that was horribly wrong.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Cool. Even if you do manage to find 10 examples of being mis-meta'd, if I find one example of you being properly meta'd, it tears a giant hole in the "I can't be meta'd" argument.
Every time that someone said "Iso is scum because of meta" or "Iso is town because of meta" was too lazy to properly explain the reasons for why I was scum or town - I always dismantle meta arguments for or against me because my actions are indicative of Iso - not alignment. If you can point to a time I've done it as scum, I've probably done it as town and vice-versa. Saying that "you did this once as scum and it 'caught' you in another scum game" is incorrect because, as I said, I can reference a time when I've done it as town almost assuredly.
This game it seems he is drastically lower than his normal posting. What's different? I don't know. I suspect that it's a null tell, if anything. In my opinion, the fact that Iso's post rate is significantly lower this game is not indicative of his alignment.
Here's a thought: If you're REALLY daring, you could go count up my Day 1 posts for every game. However, thanks for going through all that effort. While I demonstrated it effectively with my most recent examples of completed games, that's certainly more thorough.
To seeing a player potentially modkilled for quoting a PM and his first response was "oh i give scum the wincon all the time". Thats convoluted and attempting to paint a picture that wasnt there. DH was long since cleared and Iso still pressed the case. Thats scummy
Yeah, except I didn't still press the case. I dropped it immediately in favor of people I thought were MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM. Why are you ignoring this fact?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He is kind of like our subforum's version of Dragonheart. And I mean that in a good way.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion). I would much rather let Night actions and/or the interactions of bygone Days incriminate him than let Day One devolve into a cesspool of text walls that no one in their right mind would want to reread come Day Five.
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion).
- In fairness, we did reconcile and ALMOST won. We just had to not be dumb on the last Day, and unfortunately, I realize that I was a big part of that. (Still want to blame Eron, though.)
Quote from AsianInvasion »
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
I could get behind an Arcadic lynch.
Also, a note: Since I'm looking through every single one of my town games to compile the requested meta information, it's gonna take some time, meaning I'm going to do it on and off throughout a day or a few.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He is kind of like our subforum's version of Dragonheart. And I mean that in a good way.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion). I would much rather let Night actions and/or the interactions of bygone Days incriminate him than let Day One devolve into a cesspool of text walls that no one in their right mind would want to reread come Day Five.
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
I don't necessarily think Ahylis and Tordeck are scum at this juncture - though Tord has a good chance of it based on his totally baseless attacks, it seems. Ahylis is sharing some of my views, so again, I'm willing to consider him as town.
Hey everyone, look at this person. They're agreeing with me completely. They're obvobv Town.
Hey look everyone, this person disagrees with me all the time, they're obvobv Scum.
Hey look everyone, this person kind of agrees with me, much of the time. They're likely Town.
Hey look everyone, this person is disagreeing with several of my posts, but not all of them. They're likely Scum.
But no, tordeck's vote on me was terrible the moment he put it on. He has provided absolutely no reasoning other than "he's scum because I say so, go look where I pointed it out". My approach seemed like the easiest way to get him to finally provide said reasoning.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion). I would much rather let Night actions and/or the interactions of bygone Days incriminate him than let Day One devolve into a cesspool of text walls that no one in their right mind would want to reread come Day Five.
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
Quod est actu. quam legi optimum ISO. in mea sententiam
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No, I am mad because this is the 2nd game in a row where you may made me want to reach through the computer and throttle you. Normally feelings like that dont happen but when a player relies on being annoying and abusive to play the game I get that way. You are not a person I care to play with, now or ever again.
[QUOTE=Ahlyis;/comments/10842450]Hey everyone, look at this person. They're agreeing with me completely. They're obvobv Town.
Hey look everyone, this person disagrees with me all the time, they're obvobv Scum.
Hey look everyone, this person kind of agrees with me, much of the time. They're likely Town.
Hey look everyone, this person is disagreeing with several of my posts, but not all of them. They're likely Scum.
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
That is a very nice summary of Iso. Can we lynch him already?
Flailing, as in a fish out of water. You are splashing around trying anything to save you and your buddy. And it will fail.
I am trying to save the town from a misslynch. Its a bad play on "gut" alone.
And if hes town?
No, I am mad because this is the 2nd game in a row where you may made me want to reach through the computer and throttle you. Normally feelings like that dont happen but when a player relies on being annoying and abusive to play the game I get that way. You are not a person I care to play with, now or ever again.
When someone abusively uses one liners, refuses to defend their statements and simply is not playing the game, I hate that. You have shown you are able to play at a higher level than that, and I expect that. Hopefully with other players also voting to policy lynch you, you will understand that I am not alone in this regard.
A meta that works 10% of the time is more aptly called a "coincidence."
It should also only influence your decision on him by 10%. Give is more to work with to raise that % higher.
Granted, but I'm more interested that Iso claims that meta cannot work on him and he insinuates that it has never worked on him. If I find out otherwise, then he's lying here.
Also note that this is his defense to my meta arguments, simply that they don't work. It's a weak defense, instead of disproving my meta theory in games he's just looking up other players meta attacks and how they have failed. I've already stated, I'm not those players, so there's already enough variables that exist to debunk the "can't be meta'd" argument. Maybe all the meta ran on Iso has been missing things, who knows, but I think I've got something, mostly because I'm accounting for Iso's similar town/scum style. That's one of his only defenses, the "I play the same game so I can't be meta'd" argument, and I'm accounting for the similarities between his town and scum games. Like Vote Mongering when he was scum in Trisk and not in Homestuck, under similar Gut fueled circumstances.
Thing is, you're misconstruing my arguments against those people. You're saying that because they disagreed with my Megiddo case, that I thought they were scum - it's not a flop at all, it's simply not true.
No no, I'm not letting you use this word again, I'm going to find where you call other people scummy simply because they disagree with you. You've done it more than once this game, it'll be in my next post.
Because that was the most recent example aside from this game (and obviously I can't use my alignment in this game as an example) and it was the first one that came to the top of my head. But sure, I'll find every meta argument I can against me that was horribly wrong.
Ok, sounds good, love to hear it. You should look for any that happen to be correct on you too.
Every time that someone said "Iso is scum because of meta" or "Iso is town because of meta" was too lazy to properly explain the reasons for why I was scum or town - I always dismantle meta arguments for or against me because my actions are indicative of Iso - not alignment. If you can point to a time I've done it as scum, I've probably done it as town and vice-versa. Saying that "you did this once as scum and it 'caught' you in another scum game" is incorrect because, as I said, I can reference a time when I've done it as town almost assuredly.
Ok, so while you are at it, find town vote mongering too. Seems like there was something else to look for in your meta, but I'm drawing blanks.
He is kind of like our subforum's version of Dragonheart. And I mean that in a good way.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion). I would much rather let Night actions and/or the interactions of bygone Days incriminate him than let Day One devolve into a cesspool of text walls that no one in their right mind would want to reread come Day Five.
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
You think I'm casing him because I fear him? No, I think he's scum. Also, D1 has already devolved into that, so it's really too late now.
Arcadic not posting anything better makes me fine with his lynch. I'm more conflicted on Void, mostly because he had what appeared to be a very town game right off the bat. His more recent stuff has been off the wall though, and has he started lurking? When's his last post? Lurking is scumvoid's classic tell.
You better explain yourself, cause no, it's not. It's an poor excuse for scumhunting and it undermines other player's arguments. If anyone is following your case and a few people come by and attempt to tear it down, the best way to prevent your followers from questioning you case too is to dismiss the dissenters as scum for disagreeing. If you play the game as "people who agree with me are town, people who don't are scum" then you will likely lose the game as town. However, since that kind of simple logic can screw a town right up, the scum are tempted to use it. It's a lazy mindset too, which is also indicative of scum.
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Armchair analyses:
* Void switched gears suddenly after the modkill.
* Arn has been voting aimlessly
* Iso has been tunneling on two people.
* Tordeck has also.
* Audi hops on wagons. Hasn't voted after the modkill for some reason. Likely waiting for another wagon on a townie.
* Megiddo is going with the flow mostly.
* Seppel has voted for seven people.
* Guardman has had his sights only on Megiddo, taking a pit-stop to get on the Dragon wagon.
* Kpaca's voting whatever.
* Ahlyis is voting without much push.
* AI is voting just fine.
* Gricky's voting like a hipster.
* Wessel's votes are quiet.
* Dragon is dead town.
* Arcadic took a long time to vote.
* Wheat didn't vote early, then he slammed down five votes and an unvote post-modkill.
* Cyouni has been voting smartly.
* Infinis has barely been voting.
* Zajnet has been voting even less.
* Proph isn't even paying attention.
* D_V has voted way too infrequently given his postcount.
* A_E and fluffy haven't even voted or played the game.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
I dislike the fact that you're agreeing with Gricky here.
The top is referring to me, just after my questioning of Ahlyis ended and I believe I had Aud pinned to, which BTW, he's still scum.
Thought I'd leave that early vote monger there too, in all it's glory.
The bottom part is directed toward Tordeck I believe, one of the first interactions Iso's had with Tordeck. So this is evidence both of me being scum because Iso disagrees with me and Tordeck seeming scummy because he does agree with me.
Yeh. Kind of what I'm getting at with Ahylis, but I don't necessarily believe he's scum at this point - just not to the standards we expect.
This is evidence that all throughout Iso's fight with Ahlyis, he still regards him as town. It's once Ahlyis starts agreeing with me that he becomes scummy.
So my bad, DH is on this list and wasn't a product of being tied to Meg or me. However, Tordeck is on the list and this is way before the Iso-Tordeck fight began. The only indication for why he's on this list is what I gave earlier, the fact that he's agreeing with me. So there's Meg, me because I disagree with the Meg case and Tordeck because he agrees with me disagreeing. Also, note that the Proph scumspect comes from some early theory about Meg and Proph being buddies. So that's a tie-in too.
What do you think of Arcadic tying himself to Gricky?
Sets up Arcadic for the tie, although this time I agree that Arcadic seems scummy, just not because he agrees with me. If Arcadic flips scum, I'm more likely to believe that Iso's town with poor reads.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Granted, but I'm more interested that Iso claims that meta cannot work on him and he insinuates that it has never worked on him. If I find out otherwise, then he's lying here.
Let me start by saying, I agree that Iso is Scum.
But this crusade of yours is pointless. What is ANY player going to say? "Yeah, I'm easily caught by metagaming me. Works every time."???
Also, suppose you find 10 games where someone tried to metagame Iso and they were only right ONCE in those 10 games. That one anomaly doesn't prove Iso can be metagamed, the 9 incorrect results do! The one correct read is more likely an anomaly, but the 9 incorrect reads shows an active attempt by Iso to hide any Meta to the point where you need to start looking at the OPPOSITE of what you think his meta says. In fact, if that one correct read came most recently, I'd look hard at that game to see if they did just that, looked at the reverse of what Iso's meta would seem to suggest of his behavior.
The point being, Iso is arguing against his own case by insisting nobody is ever right when trying to read his Meta. If everyone is ALWAYS wrong, then there is most certainly something there to be read.
Of course, as soon as people start to recognize that behavior and start to "correctly" interpret his actions, he'll just shift it up again... assuming he's as good a player as he seems to think he is.
In conclusion, any attempted metagaming results which show a consistent success OR failure indicates that the person CAN be metagamed successfully. You just have to figure out how to properly interpret their actions. But a seemingly random jumble of success/fail is more indicative of the random luck being right rather than being able to correctly read someone.
There's many other factors as well, like the astuteness of the people doing the meta-reading, which can skew the results.
Armchair analyses:
* Void switched gears suddenly after the modkill.
* Arn has been voting aimlessly
* Iso has been tunneling on two people.
* Tordeck has also.
* Audi hops on wagons. Hasn't voted after the modkill for some reason. Likely waiting for another wagon on a townie.
* Megiddo is going with the flow mostly.
* Seppel has voted for seven people.
* Guardman has had his sights only on Megiddo, taking a pit-stop to get on the Dragon wagon.
* Kpaca's voting whatever.
* Ahlyis is voting without much push.
* AI is voting just fine.
* Gricky's voting like a hipster.
* Wessel's votes are quiet.
* Dragon is dead town.
* Arcadic took a long time to vote.
* Wheat didn't vote early, then he slammed down five votes and an unvote post-modkill.
* Cyouni has been voting smartly.
* Infinis has barely been voting.
* Zajnet has been voting even less.
* Proph isn't even paying attention.
* D_V has voted way too infrequently given his postcount.
* A_E and fluffy haven't even voted or played the game.
I like the analysis, but I meant to say that I'm currently voting Iso now. I don't remember having to revote, but Charm has me down for Iso in the last VC. Just in case Vote Iso
BTW, what's it mean to vote like a hipster? Like "I voted so-and-so before it was cool"?
Joke: How did the hipster burn his tongue?
Punchline: He drank coffee before it was cool.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Armchair analyses:
* Void switched gears suddenly after the modkill.
* Arn has been voting aimlessly
* Iso has been tunneling on two people.
* Tordeck has also.
* Audi hops on wagons. Hasn't voted after the modkill for some reason. Likely waiting for another wagon on a townie.
* Megiddo is going with the flow mostly.
* Seppel has voted for seven people.
* Guardman has had his sights only on Megiddo, taking a pit-stop to get on the Dragon wagon.
* Kpaca's voting whatever.
* Ahlyis is voting without much push.
* AI is voting just fine.
* Gricky's voting like a hipster.
* Wessel's votes are quiet.
* Dragon is dead town.
* Arcadic took a long time to vote.
* Wheat didn't vote early, then he slammed down five votes and an unvote post-modkill.
* Cyouni has been voting smartly.
* Infinis has barely been voting.
* Zajnet has been voting even less.
* Proph isn't even paying attention.
* D_V has voted way too infrequently given his postcount.
* A_E and fluffy haven't even voted or played the game.
Interesting stuff.
I think the thing that jumps out at me when seeing it in graph form is the number of people voting for Meg at the beginning of the game and then either jump on Drag and never go back to Meg or just vote someone else after the vote reset.
Will have to think on this and investigate it more to see if it means anything.
Thing is people say they're sick of it and he won't stop, but they keep at him.
Its all about the reads. Some just go at it in a disturbing way.
Noticed this while finding the Iso stuff. AE comes in, says he's in mid reread, posts these two gems and is off again. So how'd that reread go? Anything to note, opinions to share, wanna call anybody names and be totally disruptive, cause anything at this point would be nice. You don't lurk this hard in your town games, what gives?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Please replace out as well since you feel the need to be so childish.
You have a lot of troly people in your establishment. I find it hard to see the difference between me and them. A lot of your trolls are a lot more cut throat than me.
@ Tordeck I doubt you even know what flaming means. I have been very nice so far.
* Audi hops on wagons. Hasn't voted after the modkill for some reason. Likely waiting for another wagon on a townie.
Hopped. Past tense. I don't have time to even read the game right now, much less analyzing anything. Hopefully a few days abroad will give me some free time afterwards to get into the game again with a fresh start and clean sheet.
I think the thing that jumps out at me when seeing it in graph form is the number of people voting for Meg at the beginning of the game and then either jump on Drag and never go back to Meg or just vote someone else after the vote reset.
Will have to think on this and investigate it more to see if it means anything.
I guess the reason people didn't jump back to Meg is that around that time, Meg stopped posting. I don't know if he has picked that up, as I haven't been able to follow the game the last couple of days.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Noticed this while finding the Iso stuff. AE comes in, says he's in mid reread, posts these two gems and is off again. So how'd that reread go? Anything to note, opinions to share, wanna call anybody names and be totally disruptive, cause anything at this point would be nice. You don't lurk this hard in your town games, what gives?
This is interesting btw. I don't know anything about A_E's scum MO, but he's usually rather active.
I typed a question to A_E here, but I realized it was exactly the same as your question to him, so there's no point in repeating.
Also: D_V and Tordeck: Please. Stop. The both of you. No-one cares who started it, you are ruining the game by beeing childish and stubborn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
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A) Didn't answer the question I asked. IE how is Iso's REACTION scummy.
B) What is flailing?
C) How am I flailing?
The Family
Now here is where it gets fun. I am basing my scum read on Iso based purely off gut, posting meta and his reaction to DH's claim.
That is not an explanation.
Once again
A) Didn't answer the question I asked. IE how is Iso's REACTION scummy.
B) What is flailing?
C) How am I flailing?
For reference, Tordeck has said that "[He is] basing [his] scum read on Iso based purely off gut, posting meta and [Iso's] reaction to DH's claim."
I'll take these one point at a time.
First, as I've been saying, gut is not something I really place that much credence on. I can't say anything to this at this time.
As for Iso's reaction to DH's claim, here's the exchange:
From what I can tell, after this point Tordeck and Iso go back and forth arguing about this. I'm pretty sure this is about as detailed as Tordeck gets regarding this issue. He restates the point, but after that we kind of devolved into Tordeck's trolling for reactions. If I missed a fuller explanation of the point, please point it out to me, since I could not find it.
Anyway, there it is, Tordeck's actual case.
Next up is the posting meta, which I misunderstood to be Iso's behavioral rather than the actual volume of posts, which was what Tordeck meant. post 636 has Tordeck's case.
Iso did rebut this argument, though.
So, I went to do my own research.
Using Iso's blog, I have pulled all of his post counts from all of his completed games at the time he left the game (whether due to completion or death or otherwise). I have omitted all postgame posting from these calculations. I have also omitted all ongoing games regardless of Iso's status in those games, as I do not wish to discuss ongoing games in any fashion. If Iso replaced in, the count started from when the replacement was announced.
Iji
1468 posts
Iso: 206 posts, second place; ~14% of total posts. First was MandersHex with 208.
Endgamed.
Hetalia
3542 Posts
Iso: 378 posts, second place; >10% of total posts. First was Sir Mu with 485.
Lynched at endgame.
Super Mario World
206 posts at the end of D1
Iso: 54 posts, ??? place; ~25% of total posts
Lynched D1
Star Trek Myriad Universes II
1203 posts at the beginning of D2
Iso: 118 posts, ??? place; ~10% of applicable posts
Vigged N1
Agatha Christie
1147 posts
Iso: 162 posts, third place; >14% of total posts. First was yanni with 280 and second was Burstinatrix with 216.
Endgamed
Flame Warriors
4773 posts at end of D4
Iso: 776 posts, ??? place; >16% of total posts.
Lynched D4
300
430 posts from replacing in to death
Iso: 63 posts, ??? place; >14% of applicable posts.
Replaced in, vigged N2
Supernatural
388 posts at the beginning of D4
Iso: 70 posts, ??? place; 18% of applicable posts.
Vigged N3
Cyan's Impossible
Somebody has to explain to me what is going on with this game because
It appears that Iso was only in the Alternate Universe game, so that's what I'm looking at.
1259 posts at the beginning of D4
Iso: 369 posts, ??? place; 30% of applicable posts
NK'd N3
Monster Island
1445 posts
Iso: 303 posts, first place; >20% of total posts
Lynched at endgame
The Magic School Bus
887 posts at the beginning of D3
Iso: 132 posts, ??? place; ~15% of total posts
NK'd N2
Pulp Fiction
69 posts from replacing in to endgame
Iso: 25 posts, ??? place; 36% of applicable posts
Endgamed
Osteria
1122 posts
Iso: 244 posts, first place; >21% of total posts
Endgamed
Seasons
2828 posts at the beginning of D4
564 posts, ??? place; ~20% of applicable posts
NK'd N3
Random 4
589 posts at the end of D3
Iso: 157 posts, ??? place; >26% of applicable posts
Lynched D3
Kitteh Trek
718 posts when Iso was modkilled
Iso: 127 posts, ??? place; >17% of applicable posts
Modkilled D2
Modern Family
820 posts at the end of D2
Iso: 209 posts, ??? place; >25% of applicable posts
Lynched D2
Peso de Grande
977 posts
Iso: 289 posts, first place; ~30% of total posts
Endgamed
Mean Girls
1462 posts
Iso: 352 posts, first place, 24% of total posts
Endgamed
Homestuck
1065 posts
Iso: 300 posts, first place; 28% of total posts
Endgamed
Avatar: The Legend of Aang
1802 posts
Iso: 248 posts, tied for first; >13% of total posts. poggydude also had 248 posts
Lynched at endgame
Scum Games:
Amnesia
2100 posts
Iso: 496 posts, first place; >23% of total posts.
Endgamed
Star Trek Myriad Universes II (again)
Iso also replaced back in later in the game as scum.
There were 770 posts during this latter period where Iso was alive.
Iso: 155 posts, ??? place; 20% of applicable posts.
Lynched D3.
Starcraft
3288 posts from replacing in to endgame,
Iso: 526 posts, ??? place; 16% of applicable posts
Endgamed
1984
1579 posts
Iso: 299 posts, first place, 19% of total posts
Endgamed
Cyberpunk
532 posts at end of D1
Iso: 96 posts, ??? place, 18% of applicable posts
Lynched D1
Triskelion
1179 posts
Iso: 253 posts, first place, ~21% of total posts
Endgamed
Other Games
Star Trek: Voyager
250 posts
Iso: 28 posts, ??? place, ~11% of applicable posts
Lynched D1
First, there are some confounding variables, such as who was in the game, number of players in the game, relative post count compared to other players in games he did not complete (I don't have infinite time), and things I may not even be aware of, but I believe that the average percentage of total posts while active is a good enough data point to do a comparison of his town and scum posting habits.
The results?
As town, Iso has, on average, 20.28% of the posts while he is active over 21 games.
As scum, a smaller sample size, he has 19.5% of the posts while he is active over 5 games. If we add in his cult leader game (where we established he was trying to get lynched), that drops the average to 18.28% over six games.
I can't call 20.28 and 19.5 different enough to say he can be meta'd based on post count. Even 18.28 is not really good enough, since he's never had less than 10% of the posts in his games.
Let's look at the current game:
Magical Girl (as of this post)
870 posts
Iso: 49 posts, 8th place; 5% of total posts
This game it seems he is drastically lower than his normal posting. What's different? I don't know. I suspect that it's a null tell, if anything. In my opinion, the fact that Iso's post rate is significantly lower this game is not indicative of his alignment.
While he does have a slightly lower average post rate as scum, it's not different enough to be able to say that what he's doing this game is in line with any post count-based meta case.
This brings me back to Tordeck's case:
Gut: Sure.
Meta: Not applicable according to my analysis.
Reaction: Still viable.
The overall case is weaker than Tordeck is making it out to be (losing an entire third), I think, but still viable depending on how strong the reaction to DH's claim is as evidence. Tordeck hasn't done much to back it up, though.
Things to do: Explore Iso's reaction to DH's claim, as that is the only piece of Tordeck's case that is both real and possible to discuss.
He can't explain how the reaction is scummy.
So basically its just his gut.
And his gut tells him to trust the two claimed neutrals.
Yeah I'll take a pass.
The Family
Because what you were referring to was awful.
Which was in response to
There really isn't anything convoluted about that. That is pretty standard play for mods. Pretty common to have this happen.
Besides what about that makes it a scummy response? Its a true response. He was right that the win con didn't clear DH.
If that is all you have its a pretty terribad case. Gut is fine, but you don't have me sold on that.
Unvote
Also can you please answer my other questions.
If you dont know what flailing means you need to quit mafia. And every post of yours since my last TSI has been you flailing if you need examples.
The Family
PS, someone remind me after this game to never ever play with D_V again. He makes the game totally unenjoyable. Bah!
The Family
The Family
Give a nice contextual example of flailing please.
How is what I am doing flailing?
I did ask this.
I think you don't understand the concept of flailing and I am calling you out on it.
Oh but I am a massive jerk to those that can't substantiate an argument. I don't stand for lurkers and I definitely don't stand for people lurking in plain sight.
Tordecks just madz because I won't let him play like trash. Hes obviously intelligent with some of the posts he makes, but other times he posts like a complete idiot. Hopefully the policy lynch wagon was a wake up call. I really can't tell if he is scum or not, part of the reason I am questioning him so hard. You know my methods.
Dude, think about the argument he's making. "I can't be meta'd" has no exceptions. I don't care if he finds 100 or 1000 examples of him being poorly meta'd, if one case exists where someone meta'd him successfully, then clearly, he can be meta'd. Since I know there's not 100 or 1000 examples, I don't have to worry about the outrageous odds for correctly meta'ing someone. Still, even if there were, all I would have to do is follow the pattern of the one person who did.
Furthermore, him telling me Meta doesn't work isn't a defense. He's trying to use his supposed meta immunity to argue that my meta reads are bunk, which is illogical because we won't know if meta works or not until he flips something, and aside from the meta I have actual in-game arguments against him too. He's focusing on a minor issue and blowing it up as a distraction.
Yo dawg, remember that bit that Charm was saying, about being nicer while going at each other's throats.
Well, you are part of the problem, not the solution. Be cool dawg, be cool...
Iso is scum; Gricky is town
Plausibility: 30%
This scenario seems to be the one that everyone is going after. I still read Iso as town, but most people have accepted this one. The most notable person fighting for this scenario is Tordeck; he's so sure Iso is scum that he is willing to kamikaze himself to get rid of him.
Iso is town; Gricky is scum
Plausibility: 20%
This scenario seems a bit weaker. However, while I can see Gricky 1:1-ing himself in the previous scenario, I can't see Iso doing the same. Iso is resilient and likes to stay alive. But he's clamped onto Megiddo and is not letting go; Which boggles my mind why Gricky would put himself "on the line" to protect his "scum buddy" Megiddo.
Both Iso and Gricky are town
Plausbility: 40%
This is the most likely scenario for me. Why? If one or the other was scum, I doubt they'd be so adamant at 1:1-ing each other or protecting their scum buddies at this point in the game so adamantly.
Both Iso and Gricky are scum
Plausiblity: 5%
I just don't see this happening
Something else is going on
Plausibility: 5%
It is a speciality...
A meta that works 10% of the time is more aptly called a "coincidence."
It should also only influence your decision on him by 10%. Give is more to work with to raise that % higher.
Thing is, you're misconstruing my arguments against those people. You're saying that because they disagreed with my Megiddo case, that I thought they were scum - it's not a flop at all, it's simply not true.
Every time that someone said "Iso is scum because of meta" or "Iso is town because of meta" was too lazy to properly explain the reasons for why I was scum or town - I always dismantle meta arguments for or against me because my actions are indicative of Iso - not alignment. If you can point to a time I've done it as scum, I've probably done it as town and vice-versa. Saying that "you did this once as scum and it 'caught' you in another scum game" is incorrect because, as I said, I can reference a time when I've done it as town almost assuredly.
D_V asked for a Day 1 massclaim in Hetalia (town) and Star Trek: Myriad Universes II (mafia).
It's not a measurement issue. It's a "Gricky is scum, can we lynch him now? Thanks," issue.
Not so.
Here's a thought: If you're REALLY daring, you could go count up my Day 1 posts for every game.
Yeah, except I didn't still press the case. I dropped it immediately in favor of people I thought were MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM. Why are you ignoring this fact?
> Right about one player's alignment
> Therefore, right about every player's alignment
Gonna go look for some mis-meta examples.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I like dv a lot actually.
He is kind of like our subforum's version of Dragonheart. And I mean that in a good way.
People are deathly afraid of Iso and I'm not sure why. After butting heads with him in Avatar Mafia, I realized how much that contributed to the town's loss (though that was a Mini, so there were a lot less people adding to the discussion). I would much rather let Night actions and/or the interactions of bygone Days incriminate him than let Day One devolve into a cesspool of text walls that no one in their right mind would want to reread come Day Five.
In the meantime, we should totally string up Void or Arcadic.
- In fairness, we did reconcile and ALMOST won. We just had to not be dumb on the last Day, and unfortunately, I realize that I was a big part of that. (Still want to blame Eron, though.)
I could get behind an Arcadic lynch.
Also, a note: Since I'm looking through every single one of my town games to compile the requested meta information, it's gonna take some time, meaning I'm going to do it on and off throughout a day or a few.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I don't think he's scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll /barn everything in this post.
Except the lynching of me.
Need a lynch?
Why not Voidberg?
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Hey everyone, look at this person. They're agreeing with me completely. They're obvobv Town.
Hey look everyone, this person disagrees with me all the time, they're obvobv Scum.
Hey look everyone, this person kind of agrees with me, much of the time. They're likely Town.
Hey look everyone, this person is disagreeing with several of my posts, but not all of them. They're likely Scum.
:o:o:o:o:o
Verum. ~Autem. oppidum. quod te. non faceret.~
Quod est actu. quam legi optimum ISO. in mea sententiam
It's a townie mindset.
Youve figured him out completely.
stop faking it.
Interesting.
I could accept it as a newbie mindset. I'm not accepting it as a Townie mindset.
And as I'm sure Iso will agree, what it really is is an Iso mindset, regardless of his alignment.
No. It's a misrep. ;D
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You're going to have to do better than that. Why don't you think he's scum?
Flailing, as in a fish out of water. You are splashing around trying anything to save you and your buddy. And it will fail.
That is a very nice summary of Iso. Can we lynch him already?
Not at all.
The Family
I am trying to save the town from a misslynch. Its a bad play on "gut" alone.
And if hes town?
When someone abusively uses one liners, refuses to defend their statements and simply is not playing the game, I hate that. You have shown you are able to play at a higher level than that, and I expect that. Hopefully with other players also voting to policy lynch you, you will understand that I am not alone in this regard.
The Family
[POST-RVS]
[VOI] Inf
[ARN] Voi
[ISO] Sep
[TOR] D_V
[AUD] Voi
[ISO] Pro
[MEG] Aud
[SEP] Voi
[GUA] Meg
[#100]
[KPA] Meg
[SEP] Kpa
[ISO] Meg
[AHL] Sep
[ASI] Meg
[AUD] Meg
[ARN] ---
[INF] ---
[#200]
[GRI] Aud
[ARN] Sep
[WES] Meg
[MEG] D_V
[DRA] Ahl
[SEP] Meg
[#300]
[TOR] Iso
[SEP] Dra
[AHL] Dra
[WHE] Meg
[GUA] Dra
[AUD] Dra
[ARN] Dra
[CYO] Aud
[INF] Dra
[CYO] Dra
[WHE] Dra
[MEG] Dra
[ZAJ] Dra
[#400]
[AUD] ---
[AHL] ---
[ISO] Gri
[KPA] Dra
[GRI] Iso
[SEP] Iso
[INF] ---
[AHL] Dra
[#500 - VOTES RESET]
[ISO] Gri
[GUA] Meg
[WHE] Iso
[ASI] Zaj
[ARC] Iso
[AHL] Iso
[SEP] Zaj
[WHE] Zaj
[WHE] ---
[VOI] Gri
[WES] Voi
[SEP] Voi
[AHL] Iso
[#600]
[INF] Meg
[TOR] Iso
[CYO] Voi
[PRO] Meg
[D_V] Gri
[INF] Iso
[ASI] Voi
[MEG] Voi
[#700]
[D_V] Tor
[WHE] Voi
[VOI] Aud
[ARC] Voi
[#800]
[KPA] Tor
[ARN] Tor
[KPA] Iso
[WHE] Arc
[WHE] Tor
[D_V] ---
I'll graph this out in a bit.
Granted, but I'm more interested that Iso claims that meta cannot work on him and he insinuates that it has never worked on him. If I find out otherwise, then he's lying here.
Also note that this is his defense to my meta arguments, simply that they don't work. It's a weak defense, instead of disproving my meta theory in games he's just looking up other players meta attacks and how they have failed. I've already stated, I'm not those players, so there's already enough variables that exist to debunk the "can't be meta'd" argument. Maybe all the meta ran on Iso has been missing things, who knows, but I think I've got something, mostly because I'm accounting for Iso's similar town/scum style. That's one of his only defenses, the "I play the same game so I can't be meta'd" argument, and I'm accounting for the similarities between his town and scum games. Like Vote Mongering when he was scum in Trisk and not in Homestuck, under similar Gut fueled circumstances.
No no, I'm not letting you use this word again, I'm going to find where you call other people scummy simply because they disagree with you. You've done it more than once this game, it'll be in my next post.
Ok, sounds good, love to hear it. You should look for any that happen to be correct on you too.
Ok, so while you are at it, find town vote mongering too. Seems like there was something else to look for in your meta, but I'm drawing blanks.
You think I'm casing him because I fear him? No, I think he's scum. Also, D1 has already devolved into that, so it's really too late now.
Arcadic not posting anything better makes me fine with his lynch. I'm more conflicted on Void, mostly because he had what appeared to be a very town game right off the bat. His more recent stuff has been off the wall though, and has he started lurking? When's his last post? Lurking is scumvoid's classic tell.
You better explain yourself, cause no, it's not. It's an poor excuse for scumhunting and it undermines other player's arguments. If anyone is following your case and a few people come by and attempt to tear it down, the best way to prevent your followers from questioning you case too is to dismiss the dissenters as scum for disagreeing. If you play the game as "people who agree with me are town, people who don't are scum" then you will likely lose the game as town. However, since that kind of simple logic can screw a town right up, the scum are tempted to use it. It's a lazy mindset too, which is also indicative of scum.
Armchair analyses:
* Void switched gears suddenly after the modkill.
* Arn has been voting aimlessly
* Iso has been tunneling on two people.
* Tordeck has also.
* Audi hops on wagons. Hasn't voted after the modkill for some reason. Likely waiting for another wagon on a townie.
* Megiddo is going with the flow mostly.
* Seppel has voted for seven people.
* Guardman has had his sights only on Megiddo, taking a pit-stop to get on the Dragon wagon.
* Kpaca's voting whatever.
* Ahlyis is voting without much push.
* AI is voting just fine.
* Gricky's voting like a hipster.
* Wessel's votes are quiet.
* Dragon is dead town.
* Arcadic took a long time to vote.
* Wheat didn't vote early, then he slammed down five votes and an unvote post-modkill.
* Cyouni has been voting smartly.
* Infinis has barely been voting.
* Zajnet has been voting even less.
* Proph isn't even paying attention.
* D_V has voted way too infrequently given his postcount.
* A_E and fluffy haven't even voted or played the game.
The top is referring to me, just after my questioning of Ahlyis ended and I believe I had Aud pinned to, which BTW, he's still scum.
Thought I'd leave that early vote monger there too, in all it's glory.
The bottom part is directed toward Tordeck I believe, one of the first interactions Iso's had with Tordeck. So this is evidence both of me being scum because Iso disagrees with me and Tordeck seeming scummy because he does agree with me.
This is evidence that all throughout Iso's fight with Ahlyis, he still regards him as town. It's once Ahlyis starts agreeing with me that he becomes scummy.
So my bad, DH is on this list and wasn't a product of being tied to Meg or me. However, Tordeck is on the list and this is way before the Iso-Tordeck fight began. The only indication for why he's on this list is what I gave earlier, the fact that he's agreeing with me. So there's Meg, me because I disagree with the Meg case and Tordeck because he agrees with me disagreeing. Also, note that the Proph scumspect comes from some early theory about Meg and Proph being buddies. So that's a tie-in too.
Sets up Arcadic for the tie, although this time I agree that Arcadic seems scummy, just not because he agrees with me. If Arcadic flips scum, I'm more likely to believe that Iso's town with poor reads.
Let me start by saying, I agree that Iso is Scum.
But this crusade of yours is pointless. What is ANY player going to say? "Yeah, I'm easily caught by metagaming me. Works every time."???
Also, suppose you find 10 games where someone tried to metagame Iso and they were only right ONCE in those 10 games. That one anomaly doesn't prove Iso can be metagamed, the 9 incorrect results do! The one correct read is more likely an anomaly, but the 9 incorrect reads shows an active attempt by Iso to hide any Meta to the point where you need to start looking at the OPPOSITE of what you think his meta says. In fact, if that one correct read came most recently, I'd look hard at that game to see if they did just that, looked at the reverse of what Iso's meta would seem to suggest of his behavior.
The point being, Iso is arguing against his own case by insisting nobody is ever right when trying to read his Meta. If everyone is ALWAYS wrong, then there is most certainly something there to be read.
Of course, as soon as people start to recognize that behavior and start to "correctly" interpret his actions, he'll just shift it up again... assuming he's as good a player as he seems to think he is.
In conclusion, any attempted metagaming results which show a consistent success OR failure indicates that the person CAN be metagamed successfully. You just have to figure out how to properly interpret their actions. But a seemingly random jumble of success/fail is more indicative of the random luck being right rather than being able to correctly read someone.
There's many other factors as well, like the astuteness of the people doing the meta-reading, which can skew the results.
That's my take on it anyway.
I like the analysis, but I meant to say that I'm currently voting Iso now. I don't remember having to revote, but Charm has me down for Iso in the last VC. Just in case Vote Iso
BTW, what's it mean to vote like a hipster? Like "I voted so-and-so before it was cool"?
Joke: How did the hipster burn his tongue?
Punchline: He drank coffee before it was cool.
Interesting stuff.
I think the thing that jumps out at me when seeing it in graph form is the number of people voting for Meg at the beginning of the game and then either jump on Drag and never go back to Meg or just vote someone else after the vote reset.
Will have to think on this and investigate it more to see if it means anything.
Noticed this while finding the Iso stuff. AE comes in, says he's in mid reread, posts these two gems and is off again. So how'd that reread go? Anything to note, opinions to share, wanna call anybody names and be totally disruptive, cause anything at this point would be nice. You don't lurk this hard in your town games, what gives?
Coming from a supporter of the gutter that's rich. Please replace out if you are going to be childish.
Thanks
DV
Please replace out as well since you feel the need to be so childish.
You have a lot of troly people in your establishment. I find it hard to see the difference between me and them. A lot of your trolls are a lot more cut throat than me.
@ Tordeck I doubt you even know what flaming means. I have been very nice so far.
Hopped. Past tense. I don't have time to even read the game right now, much less analyzing anything. Hopefully a few days abroad will give me some free time afterwards to get into the game again with a fresh start and clean sheet.
I guess the reason people didn't jump back to Meg is that around that time, Meg stopped posting. I don't know if he has picked that up, as I haven't been able to follow the game the last couple of days.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
This is interesting btw. I don't know anything about A_E's scum MO, but he's usually rather active.
I typed a question to A_E here, but I realized it was exactly the same as your question to him, so there's no point in repeating.
Also: D_V and Tordeck: Please. Stop. The both of you. No-one cares who started it, you are ruining the game by beeing childish and stubborn.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually