Alright, I'm starting to pull together conclusions on players. Sorry if these are kind of scattershot - I'm still rather lost in this game.
Starting with the obvious cop-out of setting aside the lurkers:
Wrath_of_DoG:
As I said in our other game, WoD seems to have pretty good delineations between his town and scum play. So far, I haven't seen any easy scum markers from him (promises of future comment, followed by gigantic posts). But I usually find myself agreeing with town WoD quite a bit; his posts are short and snappy, but well-reasoned and directed, and that doesn't jive at all with the Guardman thing. I would normally expect WoD to know better than to game the mod.
That leaves in my mind two possibilities: 1) He genuinely believes in his read on the mod and the possibility Guardman's scum, and is pushing that point harder than I would expect him to, or 2) He's using the case as a very public show to appear to be engaged with the game. Neither of these fit with my read on WoD's normal behaviors, so I don't know which is more likely. Unsure
Kahedron: Basically nonexistent. Probably just needs to be replaced. He made one post of generic comments about the game thread, though without any context (i.e. more posts) it's hard to tell how serious the post was. Unsure
Archmage Eternal: Has made a decent number of tiny contributions. The vote/FOS combo in 58 bugs me a little, since it seems like he's just picking an issue and issuing the vote/FOS based on that issue without any real context (e.g. how does atlseal pushing back relate to the FOS on him?) - in other words, as if the actual recipients of the vote/FOS didn't matter all that much so long as they were made, if that makes sense.
I get the impression that he's lurking, but with a more deliberate purpose, like he's misplaying a cop role (the comparably long-winded non-answer in 178 brings this to mind). But yet again here, it's hard to judge him on his lack of contributions. So Unsure, but vaguely positive
I get the impression that he's lurking, but with a more deliberate purpose, like he's misplaying a cop role (the comparably long-winded non-answer in 178 brings this to mind). But yet again here, it's hard to judge him on his lack of contributions. So Unsure, but vaguely positive
Where are you getting this impression and how? Also I see a lot of unsure's here....:-/
Previously, you said that you wanted the town to look at my behavior and see if they found it scummy. Unreasonable and unhelpful, certainly, and likely scummy for a player whom atlseal calls experienced. Now, your read is entirely based on meta, so you expected that without further elaboration or direction people would be interested in looking through a random sampling of my meta for vague differences in "tone" (remember: BE actually expected people to be doing this once she had voted me). This is beyond asinine. Townies don't think this way.
Here was my post. Anyone think I was implying BE was thinking like a neutral? Anyone...?
Where are you getting this impression and how? Also I see a lot of unsure's here....:-/
Many of his posts have the length (and to some extent, frequency) of a lurker, but the posts he makes are very concise and useful - he isn't lurking to simply fill space. In addition, in 178 he claimed to be hiding on purpose, which suggests to me a power role he's trying not to expose by being too visible.
But I can't know for sure - it's just a guess. I admit I made it easier for myself from the start by going with a player I know pretty well and two lurkers, respectively, because it was almost two in the morning, and I tried starting with EP and it ballooned out of control quickly.
There are three possible alignments in games, Mister Iceman, and I wanted it on record what you were saying so that you couldn't backtrack on it later. I would like to know why you couldn't simply answer my question.
LAWL! I'm being called a hypocrite while stuff like this ^^^ happens? If I'm the pot then BE's certainly always the kettle.
Like what?
Why is it weak for BE find WoD scummy for jumping on the BW but perfectly reasonable for you to state suspicion on your wagon?
I find her reasoning suspicious. I've said her reason for finding WOD scummy was weak and I agree that it looks like it's overeager to find scum which doesn't come off as town it comes off as scum trying too hard to look like town. You keep asking this question as if I haven't answered it.
Zajnet looks random. I don't know about WoD and BE unvoted her random vote. Only one person of the 5 really looks random.
What don't you know about WoD? By saying only one of the votes looks random you indicating that you don't think WOD's was. Explain?
Yes. I believe you stated Emo after on this page that was suspicious. Did I miss something?
You didn't state suspicion on Syrenz or TIM early on. You made a statement about Emo and BE had her's toward WoD.
"Early on" I did a random vote, made a post which has been called into question as empty, posted again which was called into question as sweating bullets paranoid. Then I went off on BE and didn't focus on anything else. Then I went back and did a re-read. What's your question?
Also when I asked you about if you looked at those on your wagon and who was scum. Your post here post 257
You did not stated any of the 5 people that were on your wagon.
And?
votes on blue:
(5) Zajnet, WoD, TIM, Emo, Syrenz
I asked you specifically who on the wagon was scum because none of the 5 here were on your scum list.
You made a statement after the fact about Emo. Which I find incredible rediculous or hypocritcal.
Ridiculous and/or hypocritical how? That I think there was scum on my wagon but I didn't put any of them as scum in my scumlist? No offense but you're my top scum candidate right now. If Archmage hadn't posted about Guardman I would have felt completely comfortable putting the next people in my top 3. As it is everyone is scummy to me for one reason or another. Even the people who haven't posted much are scummy BECAUSE they haven't contributed. Right now you and my gut read on Guardman/A_E is stronger than the feeling that there are scum on my wagon.
You again took something someone had an oppinon on and twisted it as scummy.
Your case on AE is about bussing Guard. Which is oppion. Nothing in your case is factual.
Well you can check my list as to whom I find scummy and in what order and why. If you don't accept that my read on A_E/Guardman is gut and is stronger than the feeling there were scum on my wagon I can't help you.
1) Yes
2) If the person is following me and my logic I'm suspicious of them. If they pointed out something I found suspicious first and commented about it before I did, no.
Why would the later be suspicious?
So then you claim BE finds my wagon suspicious. I find my wagon to be suspicious. You say we claim to be suspicious of the same thing. Yet I'm suspicious of BE. Why is it that I can't be suspicious of her for her reasons behind her voting and still "be suspicious of my wagon"??
But the reality of it is she's NOT suspicious of my wagon she's suspicious of WOD for reasons she says she concocted before even starting the game. I don't buy that. She claims that she was setting a trap for opportunistic mafia players. I don't buy that because I don't see WOD as opportunistic with that vote. She now has said that she thought the scum tell was third random vote on a wagon in RVS and has been talked down to "no it's the second random vote on a wagon" which she herself is guilty of. So now her reasoning is completely debunked and she still wants to get WOD lynched just puts it away until she can get support for it. That doesn't sound like town to me.
I probably SHOULD have immediately asked questions of TIM, Syrenz, and Emo because those were the three votes after the randoms but instead i posted a placeholder and told people to chill out, was attacked for it and got emotional then went off on BE.
Because I found you to be twisting the term strikes into something scummy and making a bigger issue then it actually was.
I get the impression that he's lurking, but with a more deliberate purpose, like he's misplaying a cop role (the comparably long-winded non-answer in 178 brings this to mind). But yet again here, it's hard to judge him on his lack of contributions. So Unsure, but vaguely positive
--
More to come in the morning, when I'm not tired.
This feels like fishing. What's the point of saying that?
As the days go by, the kittehs continue their lines of question and curiosities as to the situation at hand. Two kittehs haven't spoken in a while, though, so I have poked them with my fishing pole that I use to catch their food. Mmm, they love it so.
Sorry guys, I've been really busy and with a cold on top of that.
I switched my vote back over from blue to BlueElectric because of my earlier remark about BlueElectric. He was my biggest scumread at the time.
I'm unsure on what to do about Guardman because I was fully expecting him to claim Spot. Him claiming not Spot threw me for a loop, and makes me wonder if he's telling the truth. I'm thinking that someone faking that PR would just claim Spot.
As for LC, I read him as cautious town. Everything he has been saying sounds like someone who is playing as an alt, probably for the first time as an alt, and they're putting extra thought into their responses.
I'm going to be busy this weekend but I'll try to get a meatier post or two in.
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I find her reasoning suspicious. I've said her reason for finding WOD scummy was weak and I agree that it looks like it's overeager to find scum which doesn't come off as town it comes off as scum trying too hard to look like town. You keep asking this question as if I haven't answered it.
Dude your not reading anything I said. I'm pointing out both of you looked at the wagon on you. She saw the 3rd vote as scummy using all be it weak, crazy and somewhat silly reasoning but it's what I have seen people do before.
What don't you know about WoD? By saying only one of the votes looks random you indicating that you don't think WOD's was. Explain?
I don't know if WoD's vote was random. I have seen people who vote because they see a BW and go along (yes even in RVS) and I have seen people that just vote. Seeing a 3rd vote on a the same player and believing it's just random is not something I take stock in.
"Early on" I did a random vote, made a post which has been called into question as empty, posted again which was called into question as sweating bullets paranoid. Then I went off on BE and didn't focus on anything else. Then I went back and did a re-read. What's your question?
Now I know your not paying attention. You just attacked me for my read on you and claimed you looked at your wagon. My point was most of what you commented on was from early game and was after your comment.
Ridiculous and/or hypocritical how? That I think there was scum on my wagon but I didn't put any of them as scum in my scumlist? No offense but you're my top scum candidate right now. If Archmage hadn't posted about Guardman I would have felt completely comfortable putting the next people in my top 3. As it is everyone is scummy to me for one reason or another. Even the people who haven't posted much are scummy BECAUSE they haven't contributed. Right now you and my gut read on Guardman/A_E is stronger than the feeling that there are scum on my wagon.
Ridiculous/hypocritical to call a player (Emo in this case) scummy for making something look you said scummy. Your comment is about him is bias.
I also think your comment about saying there is scum on your wagon then backing off on that is scummy as hell.
And your case is on me is about someone I don't know and don't think like.
So then you claim BE finds my wagon suspicious. I find my wagon to be suspicious. You say we claim to be suspicious of the same thing. Yet I'm suspicious of BE. Why is it that I can't be suspicious of her for her reasons behind her voting and still "be suspicious of my wagon"??
Why is it suspicious to you for her to be suspicious of your wagon. That makes no sense.
But the reality of it is she's NOT suspicious of my wagon she's suspicious of WOD for reasons she says she concocted before even starting the game. I don't buy that. She claims that she was setting a trap for opportunistic mafia players. I don't buy that because I don't see WOD as opportunistic with that vote. She now has said that she thought the scum tell was third random vote on a wagon in RVS and has been talked down to "no it's the second random vote on a wagon" which she herself is guilty of. So now her reasoning is completely debunked and she still wants to get WOD lynched just puts it away until she can get support for it. That doesn't sound like town to me.
Do you really think anyone with half a brain would lynch on that reason? Do you think she believed it was enough reason to lynch WoD?
And now?
Did your opinion on her comment using strikes change?
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Why is it suspicious to you for her to be suspicious of your wagon. That makes no sense.
Do you really think anyone with half a brain would lynch on that reason? Do you think she believed it was enough reason to lynch WoD?
Did your opinion on her comment using strikes change?
And now I'm convinced you're not reading and/or you're trolling me. BE voted WOD for different reasons. You can interpret your way until you're me in the face but this is how I see it "BE is scummy. She is voting WOD for scummy reasons. I'm suspicious of BE." Not "BE finds my wagon scummy. I find my wagon scummy. Clearly I can't call BE out because we both find my wagon scummy." Well let's use a cow instead:
"I like beef. BE likes beef. We both like beef"
^^^^that's all you seem to understand but this is what is really happening:
"I like beef because who doesn't like a big beef sausage? BE likes beef because a cow killed her father and eating beef is sweet revenge. I am suspicious of BE's reasons for eating beef."
Am I not allowed to find her suspicious O_o. Am I not allowed to find that her reasoning is flawed? You can't "point out that you're both suspicious of your wagon" without implying that we're thinking the same way/agreeing. I'm not saying she's not entitled to her opinion; I think her opinion comes from a scummy place.
not only do I believe she wanted to lynch WOD for this SHE HAS SAID IT explicitly. She believes that even though she can't get support for WOD's lynch right now she still wants him lynched. She says basically: 1. WOD voted 3rd random vote on someone in RVS. That's scummy. 2. WOD wasn't paying attention and voted another random vote even though there were two serious votes at the time. 3. WOD didn't respond to the votes on him at the time. 4. She was setting a trap for opportunistic mafia to place the 3rd vote. 5. She claims she believes wholeheartedly that she's caught scum. 6. She admits that her reasoning for wanting WOD lynched was weak/a weak tell. 7. She unvotes but still wants WOD lynched. 8. she shifts her attention to the scummiest player (me) but doesn't vote instead makes an attack against me asking for a meta "is blue always...". 9. NOW she votes after I goad her into it.
Why are you defending BE when you haven't even read what she's said?
so you tell me then. If you find a player scummy but they replace out why would I possibly not think the replacement is scummy automatically? Not your fault that you have to fill ATLseals shoes. You have the onus to prove you're not scummy.
I still find Emo and TIM scummy and they're in the gradient of scum I have listed. Not sure where you think I'm "backing off" of them. I've given reasons why I think Syrenz became less and less scummy to me throughout the game.
You're number one because you are for all intents and purposes ATLSeal. I'm not asking you to defend his position OR think like him or anything of the sort. Using that as an excuse to discount my vote against you is silly.
Syrenz: Zajnet votes in agreement that Manders doesn't like PRs and wouldn't do that. Gaming the mod and scum/town both do it. He says you can create your own lolcats so guardman should still be able to post. Guardman says he's not allowed to create his own lolcats. Zajnet says are you spot and unvotes waiting for a response. He voted, got more information, unvoted, got more information and is unsure of what to do. That's what it seems like to me. I guess I don't find it as scummy as you do.
Since Zajnet's last post what do you think of his actions?
Sorry guys, I've been really busy and with a cold on top of that.
I switched my vote back over from blue to BlueElectric because of my earlier remark about BlueElectric. He was my biggest scumread at the time.
I'm unsure on what to do about Guardman because I was fully expecting him to claim Spot. Him claiming not Spot threw me for a loop, and makes me wonder if he's telling the truth. I'm thinking that someone faking that PR would just claim Spot.
As for LC, I read him as cautious town. Everything he has been saying sounds like someone who is playing as an alt, probably for the first time as an alt, and they're putting extra thought into their responses.
I'm going to be busy this weekend but I'll try to get a meatier post or two in.
Sorry guys, I've been really busy and with a cold on top of that.
I switched my vote back over from blue to BlueElectric because of my earlier remark about BlueElectric. He was my biggest scumread at the time.
I'm unsure on what to do about Guardman because I was fully expecting him to claim Spot. Him claiming not Spot threw me for a loop, and makes me wonder if he's telling the truth. I'm thinking that someone faking that PR would just claim Spot.
As for LC, I read him as cautious town. Everything he has been saying sounds like someone who is playing as an alt, probably for the first time as an alt, and they're putting extra thought into their responses.
I'm going to be busy this weekend but I'll try to get a meatier post or two in.
Sorry guys, I've been really busy and with a cold on top of that.
I switched my vote back over from blue to BlueElectric because of my earlier remark about BlueElectric. He was my biggest scumread at the time.
I'm unsure on what to do about Guardman because I was fully expecting him to claim Spot. Him claiming not Spot threw me for a loop, and makes me wonder if he's telling the truth. I'm thinking that someone faking that PR would just claim Spot.
As for LC, I read him as cautious town. Everything he has been saying sounds like someone who is playing as an alt, probably for the first time as an alt, and they're putting extra thought into their responses.
I'm going to be busy this weekend but I'll try to get a meatier post or two in.
You said:
I agree with WoD that MH probably wouldn't give a PR that restrictive...
And I don't like that he says he can't create his own lolcat images. There are sooo many variations already out there that it feels... arbitrary.
Vote: Guardman
This business about Guardman being spot is completely irrelevant to your reasons for voting him. I fail to see why Guardman not being Spot is strong enough to make you unvote.
It feels like were just looking for a way to get off a bad wagon, yet did not do it very well. The fact that you unvoted preemptively while asking Guardman if he was or was not Spot reinforces this feeling:
Unvote while I wait for his answer. Sorry I don't really have time to post more
Like what is this supposed to mean? If he quoted "I am spot" would you suddenly vote him again? According to what you're now saying, you would. Which means unvoting him here in the first place is off. The fact that you unvoted him before he answered this question makes me feel confident that you were in fact just trying to get off the bad wagon any way you could.
Syrenz: Zajnet votes in agreement that Manders doesn't like PRs and wouldn't do that. Gaming the mod and scum/town both do it. He says you can create your own lolcats so guardman should still be able to post. Guardman says he's not allowed to create his own lolcats. Zajnet says are you spot and unvotes waiting for a response. He voted, got more information, unvoted, got more information and is unsure of what to do. That's what it seems like to me. I guess I don't find it as scummy as you do.
Since Zajnet's last post what do you think of his actions?
This business about Guardman being spot is completely irrelevant to your reasons for voting him. I fail to see why Guardman not being Spot is strong enough to make you unvote.
It feels like were just looking for a way to get off a bad wagon, yet did not do it very well. The fact that you unvoted preemptively while asking Guardman if he was or was not Spot reinforces this feeling:
Like what is this supposed to mean? If he quoted "I am spot" would you suddenly vote him again? According to what you're now saying, you would. Which means unvoting him here in the first place is off. The fact that you unvoted him before he answered this question makes me feel confident that you were in fact just trying to get off the bad wagon any way you could.
Wow, that was easily the scummiest post yet in the game. You went from not really finding Zajnet scummy and asking Syrenz what he thinks of Zaj's previous post (clearly with the intent of thinking it townie and trying to get some feedback on that) to hopping on the wagon.
Wow, that was easily the scummiest post yet in the game. You went from not really finding Zajnet scummy and asking Syrenz what he thinks of Zaj's previous post (clearly with the intent of thinking it townie and trying to get some feedback on that) to hopping on the wagon.
Unvote. Vote Blue.
And now you're just flip flopping all over the place because your BE wagon is going nowhere.
So you do or don't agree that your BE wagon is going nowhere? You do or don't agree that Zajnet is scum? If you consider that Zajnet is scum your vote on me is as useless as my vote on Pinky's Brain was. You know I'm not going to claim and if you want to get me lynched I've provided plenty of behavior to give you a good wagon. In fact there's also a LOT of interaction and analysis already done on me. At least let's investigate Zajnet a little bit more before you lynch me. Unless that's what you're trying to avoid (which is what it seems like to me)
So you do or don't agree that your BE wagon is going nowhere? You do or don't agree that Zajnet is scum? If you consider that Zajnet is scum your vote on me is as useless as my vote on Pinky's Brain was. You know I'm not going to claim and if you want to get me lynched I've provided plenty of behavior to give you a good wagon. In fact there's also a LOT of interaction and analysis already done on me. At least let's investigate Zajnet a little bit more before you lynch me. Unless that's what you're trying to avoid (which is what it seems like to me)
Did you consider your vote useless? Last I looked you thought your vote and reasoning was justified.
Here is the fear again. Saying your not going to claim means you take people's vote seriously against you.
I have more but it will have to wait till after the game today.
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It's amazing how just a few posts can totally change my perception on a player. Blue's last few posts are incredibly scummy. His last post also reads like "Please let's just do the wagon on Zajnet so that when he flips scum I'll look better." and the last part of the post looks like he's just trying to set TIM up to look bad when Zajnet flips scum.
Either way, this doesn't change my opinion on Zajnet and in fact makes me even more comfortable with the wagon.
@TIM: Momentum on Zajnet is more useful than on Blue at this stage imo. Please vote Zajnet and I'll definitely support a good look at Blue afterwards. I'm not sure about BE at this point.
My apologies for not saying everything I was thinking when I unvoted Guardman. In my head, it was obvious why I was unvoting, but apparently only in my head. I had realized that I was modgaming hard, and remembered something along the lines of what pinky said that even people who don't like PRs sometimes include them as a mod because they're hilarious.
I was going to sleep on it and potentially revote him after he claimed. I was expecting him to claim Spot.
I agree that blue's last few posts are scummy.
@Syrenz: Let's assume that I get lynched today and flip town. What will that do to your opinion of blue? You say that you think we're scum together is why I'm asking.
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So you do or don't agree that your BE wagon is going nowhere? You do or don't agree that Zajnet is scum? If you consider that Zajnet is scum your vote on me is as useless as my vote on Pinky's Brain was. You know I'm not going to claim and if you want to get me lynched I've provided plenty of behavior to give you a good wagon. In fact there's also a LOT of interaction and analysis already done on me. At least let's investigate Zajnet a little bit more before you lynch me. Unless that's what you're trying to avoid (which is what it seems like to me)
It's amazing how just a few posts can totally change my perception on a player. Blue's last few posts are incredibly scummy. His last post also reads like "Please let's just do the wagon on Zajnet so that when he flips scum I'll look better." and the last part of the post looks like he's just trying to set TIM up to look bad when Zajnet flips scum.
Either way, this doesn't change my opinion on Zajnet and in fact makes me even more comfortable with the wagon.
@TIM: Momentum on Zajnet is more useful than on Blue at this stage imo. Please vote Zajnet and I'll definitely support a good look at Blue afterwards. I'm not sure about BE at this point.
Why? Blue is definitely the scummier of the two. He's more likely to be scum. Let's lynch him.
It's amazing how just a few posts can totally change my perception on a player. Blue's last few posts are incredibly scummy. His last post also reads like "Please let's just do the wagon on Zajnet so that when he flips scum I'll look better." and the last part of the post looks like he's just trying to set TIM up to look bad when Zajnet flips scum.
It's really amazing how you can have your opinion swayed in just a few posts but my opinion being swayed in just a few posts about Zajnet is scummy. Hmmmm.... Interesting dichotomy you've created
Tsk tsk tsk. No Syrenz what I'm saying is I agree with you that Zajnet is actually looking scummy after a second gander at it. And what I'm saying is not "Let's LYNCH Zajnet" I'm saying "let's put some pressure on him and get as much information as we can. Then you can lynch me." And that's what I recommend. If you find that Zajnet isn't actually scummy enough to lynch I recommend that I'm the lynch for today. I have the longest wagon and the most information can be gained from finding out my alignment.
I'm not trying to make TIM look scummy he's doing a fine job of that himself.
Pinky's brain: You think I'm afraid of dying...I'm actively encouraging it. You're also not reading the game STILL! I've already been brought to L2 and refused to claim. If people intend to vote for me they know it's not going to get a claim out of me so the only logical reason to be voting is to get the lynch so YEAH every vote on me is serious and more serious than any vote on anyone else. When TIM votes me it means "this guy needs to be lynched" not "Let's put some pressure on this player" It also means that he's shifting his attention away from BE because THAT wagon didn't pick up any steam. I also kind of see his vote on BE in the first place as a test to see if the wagon could be built back up.
Y'all aren't listening to me, you're not seeing what I'm seeing and aren't even interested in trying to understand me. You're ignoring everything I'm saying and/or twisting it to look like my points are invalid, and it's proof that regardless of whatever reads I have they're useless until I'm dead. This reeks of hyper aggressive scum all targeting the same person with really weak town just blindly following along (or not even posting) OR It's really quiet scum letting the town kill themselves.
Right now this is what I want to see happen: Run Zajnet up the wagon. See how he reacts under the pressure. Unless he does something incredibly stupid or scummy he's still not the right person for the lynch today.
How can you possibly take this righteous "I'm not claiming" attitude when you've already effectively claimed vanilla? You're not fooling anyone. Also pushing Zajnet because you want information (as opposed to actually thinking he is scum) is incredibly scummy.
How can you possibly take this righteous "I'm not claiming" attitude when you've already effectively claimed vanilla? You're not fooling anyone. Also pushing Zajnet because you want information (as opposed to actually thinking he is scum) is incredibly scummy.
QFT
Unvote, Vote: blue
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How can you possibly take this righteous "I'm not claiming" attitude when you've already effectively claimed vanilla? You're not fooling anyone. Also pushing Zajnet because you want information (as opposed to actually thinking he is scum) is incredibly scummy.
Aww sweet how you're fishing for information from me calling it scummy to want information from Zajnet. I didn't claim at all you can neither infer that I have nor do not have an ability
And also, what exactly is this righteousness you speak of? I simply say since I'm not claiming, the only reason to vote me is to lynch me. Agree or disagree?
I guess I was wrong - you claimed a useless role that has some sort of information associated with it that would help the scum but would not do anything to convince us that you're not scum. So you've effectively claimed vanilla. And the notion that I'm scum fishing for a vanilla claim is patently absurd.
LC has already fished for the cop role and no one seemed to notice.
But if you want me to fish I'll actually fish. A_E clearly wants us to believe he's Wesley Crusher based. Not sure why breadcrumbing that earlier matters considering it doesn't make him scum or town. If Guardman can't speak naturally the only thing i could think is Mr Homn or a glitched character like malfunctioning Data. Wondering about that is moot unless we list characters but then there's no reason for Guardman to claim unless he WANTS to explain his PR.
Guardman: Would it be beneficial to find out your character for the sake of understanding your PR?
LC has already fished for the cop role and no one seemed to notice.
I wasn't fishing; I know he's not dumb enough to think of that, and I'm not dumb enough to think fishing for a cop is a good idea. I was explaining why I thought his lurking wasn't suspicious.
I wasn't fishing; I know he's not dumb enough to think of that, and I'm not dumb enough to think fishing for a cop is a good idea. I was explaining why I thought his lurking wasn't suspicious.
Nice deflection though.
Care to put a vote with your attack at the very least?
Implying that I'm vanilla can be seen as a bait for someone to say "Oh no I'm not!" That's what I mean when i say fishing.
This is still absurd. I obviously was aware of your previous post where you semi-claimed (whether you claimed vanilla or pseudo-vanilla is irrelevant), so even if I were scum I would not expect you to be posting anything contrary to that. Your claim that I am fishing is pure and simply flinging mud in the face of your attacker.
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Starting with the obvious cop-out of setting aside the lurkers:
Wrath_of_DoG:
As I said in our other game, WoD seems to have pretty good delineations between his town and scum play. So far, I haven't seen any easy scum markers from him (promises of future comment, followed by gigantic posts). But I usually find myself agreeing with town WoD quite a bit; his posts are short and snappy, but well-reasoned and directed, and that doesn't jive at all with the Guardman thing. I would normally expect WoD to know better than to game the mod.
That leaves in my mind two possibilities: 1) He genuinely believes in his read on the mod and the possibility Guardman's scum, and is pushing that point harder than I would expect him to, or 2) He's using the case as a very public show to appear to be engaged with the game. Neither of these fit with my read on WoD's normal behaviors, so I don't know which is more likely. Unsure
Kahedron: Basically nonexistent. Probably just needs to be replaced. He made one post of generic comments about the game thread, though without any context (i.e. more posts) it's hard to tell how serious the post was. Unsure
Archmage Eternal: Has made a decent number of tiny contributions. The vote/FOS combo in 58 bugs me a little, since it seems like he's just picking an issue and issuing the vote/FOS based on that issue without any real context (e.g. how does atlseal pushing back relate to the FOS on him?) - in other words, as if the actual recipients of the vote/FOS didn't matter all that much so long as they were made, if that makes sense.
I get the impression that he's lurking, but with a more deliberate purpose, like he's misplaying a cop role (the comparably long-winded non-answer in 178 brings this to mind). But yet again here, it's hard to judge him on his lack of contributions. So Unsure, but vaguely positive
--
More to come in the morning, when I'm not tired.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
@LC:
Where are you getting this impression and how? Also I see a lot of unsure's here....:-/
GO PATS!!!!!!! WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Here was my post. Anyone think I was implying BE was thinking like a neutral? Anyone...?
Many of his posts have the length (and to some extent, frequency) of a lurker, but the posts he makes are very concise and useful - he isn't lurking to simply fill space. In addition, in 178 he claimed to be hiding on purpose, which suggests to me a power role he's trying not to expose by being too visible.
But I can't know for sure - it's just a guess. I admit I made it easier for myself from the start by going with a player I know pretty well and two lurkers, respectively, because it was almost two in the morning, and I tried starting with EP and it ballooned out of control quickly.
LAWL! I'm being called a hypocrite while stuff like this ^^^ happens? If I'm the pot then BE's certainly always the kettle.
I find her reasoning suspicious. I've said her reason for finding WOD scummy was weak and I agree that it looks like it's overeager to find scum which doesn't come off as town it comes off as scum trying too hard to look like town. You keep asking this question as if I haven't answered it.
What don't you know about WoD? By saying only one of the votes looks random you indicating that you don't think WOD's was. Explain?
"Early on" I did a random vote, made a post which has been called into question as empty, posted again which was called into question as sweating bullets paranoid. Then I went off on BE and didn't focus on anything else. Then I went back and did a re-read. What's your question?
And?
Ridiculous and/or hypocritical how? That I think there was scum on my wagon but I didn't put any of them as scum in my scumlist? No offense but you're my top scum candidate right now. If Archmage hadn't posted about Guardman I would have felt completely comfortable putting the next people in my top 3. As it is everyone is scummy to me for one reason or another. Even the people who haven't posted much are scummy BECAUSE they haven't contributed. Right now you and my gut read on Guardman/A_E is stronger than the feeling that there are scum on my wagon.
Well you can check my list as to whom I find scummy and in what order and why. If you don't accept that my read on A_E/Guardman is gut and is stronger than the feeling there were scum on my wagon I can't help you.
So then you claim BE finds my wagon suspicious. I find my wagon to be suspicious. You say we claim to be suspicious of the same thing. Yet I'm suspicious of BE. Why is it that I can't be suspicious of her for her reasons behind her voting and still "be suspicious of my wagon"??
But the reality of it is she's NOT suspicious of my wagon she's suspicious of WOD for reasons she says she concocted before even starting the game. I don't buy that. She claims that she was setting a trap for opportunistic mafia players. I don't buy that because I don't see WOD as opportunistic with that vote. She now has said that she thought the scum tell was third random vote on a wagon in RVS and has been talked down to "no it's the second random vote on a wagon" which she herself is guilty of. So now her reasoning is completely debunked and she still wants to get WOD lynched just puts it away until she can get support for it. That doesn't sound like town to me.
I probably SHOULD have immediately asked questions of TIM, Syrenz, and Emo because those were the three votes after the randoms but instead i posted a placeholder and told people to chill out, was attacked for it and got emotional then went off on BE.
And now?
This feels like fishing. What's the point of saying that?
As the days go by, the kittehs continue their lines of question and curiosities as to the situation at hand. Two kittehs haven't spoken in a while, though, so I have poked them with my fishing pole that I use to catch their food. Mmm, they love it so.
Vote Count 1.4
Guardman (1): Archmage Eternal
Zajnet (2): Syrenz; Guardman; Emo_Pinata
TheIceMan (1): BlueElectric
pinkys_brain (1): blue
BlueElectric (1): TheIceMan
blue (1): pinkys_brain
Not Voting (3): Kahedron; Zajnet; Wrath_of_DoG; Liquidity Crisis
With 12 alive, it is 7 to lynch.
Please don't hesitate to point out any mistakes.
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I switched my vote back over from blue to BlueElectric because of my earlier remark about BlueElectric. He was my biggest scumread at the time.
I'm unsure on what to do about Guardman because I was fully expecting him to claim Spot. Him claiming not Spot threw me for a loop, and makes me wonder if he's telling the truth. I'm thinking that someone faking that PR would just claim Spot.
As for LC, I read him as cautious town. Everything he has been saying sounds like someone who is playing as an alt, probably for the first time as an alt, and they're putting extra thought into their responses.
I'm going to be busy this weekend but I'll try to get a meatier post or two in.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
If you're going to pretend to be paying attention, at least do a better job of it.
Read my post again.
If you're going to pretend to be paying attention, at least do a better job of it.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Dude your not reading anything I said. I'm pointing out both of you looked at the wagon on you. She saw the 3rd vote as scummy using all be it weak, crazy and somewhat silly reasoning but it's what I have seen people do before.
I don't know if WoD's vote was random. I have seen people who vote because they see a BW and go along (yes even in RVS) and I have seen people that just vote. Seeing a 3rd vote on a the same player and believing it's just random is not something I take stock in.
Now I know your not paying attention. You just attacked me for my read on you and claimed you looked at your wagon. My point was most of what you commented on was from early game and was after your comment.
Ridiculous/hypocritical to call a player (Emo in this case) scummy for making something look you said scummy. Your comment is about him is bias.
I also think your comment about saying there is scum on your wagon then backing off on that is scummy as hell.
And your case is on me is about someone I don't know and don't think like.
Why is it suspicious to you for her to be suspicious of your wagon. That makes no sense.
Do you really think anyone with half a brain would lynch on that reason? Do you think she believed it was enough reason to lynch WoD?
Did your opinion on her comment using strikes change?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
And now I'm convinced you're not reading and/or you're trolling me. BE voted WOD for different reasons. You can interpret your way until you're me in the face but this is how I see it "BE is scummy. She is voting WOD for scummy reasons. I'm suspicious of BE." Not "BE finds my wagon scummy. I find my wagon scummy. Clearly I can't call BE out because we both find my wagon scummy." Well let's use a cow instead:
"I like beef. BE likes beef. We both like beef"
^^^^that's all you seem to understand but this is what is really happening:
"I like beef because who doesn't like a big beef sausage? BE likes beef because a cow killed her father and eating beef is sweet revenge. I am suspicious of BE's reasons for eating beef."
Am I not allowed to find her suspicious O_o. Am I not allowed to find that her reasoning is flawed? You can't "point out that you're both suspicious of your wagon" without implying that we're thinking the same way/agreeing. I'm not saying she's not entitled to her opinion; I think her opinion comes from a scummy place.
not only do I believe she wanted to lynch WOD for this SHE HAS SAID IT explicitly. She believes that even though she can't get support for WOD's lynch right now she still wants him lynched. She says basically: 1. WOD voted 3rd random vote on someone in RVS. That's scummy. 2. WOD wasn't paying attention and voted another random vote even though there were two serious votes at the time. 3. WOD didn't respond to the votes on him at the time. 4. She was setting a trap for opportunistic mafia to place the 3rd vote. 5. She claims she believes wholeheartedly that she's caught scum. 6. She admits that her reasoning for wanting WOD lynched was weak/a weak tell. 7. She unvotes but still wants WOD lynched. 8. she shifts her attention to the scummiest player (me) but doesn't vote instead makes an attack against me asking for a meta "is blue always...". 9. NOW she votes after I goad her into it.
Why are you defending BE when you haven't even read what she's said?
so you tell me then. If you find a player scummy but they replace out why would I possibly not think the replacement is scummy automatically? Not your fault that you have to fill ATLseals shoes. You have the onus to prove you're not scummy.
I still find Emo and TIM scummy and they're in the gradient of scum I have listed. Not sure where you think I'm "backing off" of them. I've given reasons why I think Syrenz became less and less scummy to me throughout the game.
You're number one because you are for all intents and purposes ATLSeal. I'm not asking you to defend his position OR think like him or anything of the sort. Using that as an excuse to discount my vote against you is silly.
Syrenz: Zajnet votes in agreement that Manders doesn't like PRs and wouldn't do that. Gaming the mod and scum/town both do it. He says you can create your own lolcats so guardman should still be able to post. Guardman says he's not allowed to create his own lolcats. Zajnet says are you spot and unvotes waiting for a response. He voted, got more information, unvoted, got more information and is unsure of what to do. That's what it seems like to me. I guess I don't find it as scummy as you do.
Since Zajnet's last post what do you think of his actions?
Unvote
@G-Man: Nice unvote. You'll need to justify that.
You said:
This business about Guardman being spot is completely irrelevant to your reasons for voting him. I fail to see why Guardman not being Spot is strong enough to make you unvote.
It feels like were just looking for a way to get off a bad wagon, yet did not do it very well. The fact that you unvoted preemptively while asking Guardman if he was or was not Spot reinforces this feeling:
Like what is this supposed to mean? If he quoted "I am spot" would you suddenly vote him again? According to what you're now saying, you would. Which means unvoting him here in the first place is off. The fact that you unvoted him before he answered this question makes me feel confident that you were in fact just trying to get off the bad wagon any way you could.
Confirm vote.
---
See above.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Ah I see your point.
unvote pinky's brain
vote Zajnet
Wow, that was easily the scummiest post yet in the game. You went from not really finding Zajnet scummy and asking Syrenz what he thinks of Zaj's previous post (clearly with the intent of thinking it townie and trying to get some feedback on that) to hopping on the wagon.
Unvote. Vote Blue.
And now you're just flip flopping all over the place because your BE wagon is going nowhere.
That's funny. You said flip-flop. Blue is scum.
Did you consider your vote useless? Last I looked you thought your vote and reasoning was justified.
Here is the fear again. Saying your not going to claim means you take people's vote seriously against you.
I have more but it will have to wait till after the game today.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Either way, this doesn't change my opinion on Zajnet and in fact makes me even more comfortable with the wagon.
@TIM: Momentum on Zajnet is more useful than on Blue at this stage imo. Please vote Zajnet and I'll definitely support a good look at Blue afterwards. I'm not sure about BE at this point.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I was going to sleep on it and potentially revote him after he claimed. I was expecting him to claim Spot.
I agree that blue's last few posts are scummy.
@Syrenz: Let's assume that I get lynched today and flip town. What will that do to your opinion of blue? You say that you think we're scum together is why I'm asking.
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Vote Blue
Why? Blue is definitely the scummier of the two. He's more likely to be scum. Let's lynch him.
It's really amazing how you can have your opinion swayed in just a few posts but my opinion being swayed in just a few posts about Zajnet is scummy. Hmmmm.... Interesting dichotomy you've created
Tsk tsk tsk. No Syrenz what I'm saying is I agree with you that Zajnet is actually looking scummy after a second gander at it. And what I'm saying is not "Let's LYNCH Zajnet" I'm saying "let's put some pressure on him and get as much information as we can. Then you can lynch me." And that's what I recommend. If you find that Zajnet isn't actually scummy enough to lynch I recommend that I'm the lynch for today. I have the longest wagon and the most information can be gained from finding out my alignment.
I'm not trying to make TIM look scummy he's doing a fine job of that himself.
Pinky's brain: You think I'm afraid of dying...I'm actively encouraging it. You're also not reading the game STILL! I've already been brought to L2 and refused to claim. If people intend to vote for me they know it's not going to get a claim out of me so the only logical reason to be voting is to get the lynch so YEAH every vote on me is serious and more serious than any vote on anyone else. When TIM votes me it means "this guy needs to be lynched" not "Let's put some pressure on this player" It also means that he's shifting his attention away from BE because THAT wagon didn't pick up any steam. I also kind of see his vote on BE in the first place as a test to see if the wagon could be built back up.
Y'all aren't listening to me, you're not seeing what I'm seeing and aren't even interested in trying to understand me. You're ignoring everything I'm saying and/or twisting it to look like my points are invalid, and it's proof that regardless of whatever reads I have they're useless until I'm dead. This reeks of hyper aggressive scum all targeting the same person with really weak town just blindly following along (or not even posting) OR It's really quiet scum letting the town kill themselves.
Right now this is what I want to see happen: Run Zajnet up the wagon. See how he reacts under the pressure. Unless he does something incredibly stupid or scummy he's still not the right person for the lynch today.
Were you given a PR by another player?
Or are you naturally supposed to have a PR?
In Highlander Mafia Q was able to give out PRs I believe and that would be a funny ability here.
QFT
Unvote, Vote: blue
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
High Mage of Arcane Babblings of [The Izzet]
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Aww sweet how you're fishing for information from me calling it scummy to want information from Zajnet. I didn't claim at all you can neither infer that I have nor do not have an ability
But if you want me to fish I'll actually fish. A_E clearly wants us to believe he's Wesley Crusher based. Not sure why breadcrumbing that earlier matters considering it doesn't make him scum or town. If Guardman can't speak naturally the only thing i could think is Mr Homn or a glitched character like malfunctioning Data. Wondering about that is moot unless we list characters but then there's no reason for Guardman to claim unless he WANTS to explain his PR.
Guardman: Would it be beneficial to find out your character for the sake of understanding your PR?
I wasn't fishing; I know he's not dumb enough to think of that, and I'm not dumb enough to think fishing for a cop is a good idea. I was explaining why I thought his lurking wasn't suspicious.
Nice deflection though.
Care to put a vote with your attack at the very least?
I think you were fishing.
This is still absurd. I obviously was aware of your previous post where you semi-claimed (whether you claimed vanilla or pseudo-vanilla is irrelevant), so even if I were scum I would not expect you to be posting anything contrary to that. Your claim that I am fishing is pure and simply flinging mud in the face of your attacker.