Wow, I guess I missed that vote on me. So you were just planning to let it hang out there without doing anything until someone pressed you? And your reasoning is "tone" and "metagaming reasons"? Excuse me if I'll want you to elaborate a bit.
I mulled over the decisions I had made this game and changed my stances on a lot of them throughout being reasoned with, hence the inconsistencies.
However, we are now talking about what you say was your opinion prior to this game. Either way, I don't think there's anyway that you can convince me there's no inconsistencies or there's a good reason for the inconsistencies at this point. I just need to figure out if the inconsistencies mean that you are scum. I'm dropping this conversation for now.
Sorry, used to be able to play three games at once. Work's too busy for me to be able to provide the necessary time for two games at the same time. I'm going to have to ask to be replaced out.
Doesn't look like he's worried about who he is but whether or not he's faking the PR. Is that what your questioning? Zajnet questioning Gmans name?
And now Gman jumps on with a vote too. Looks like out of the blue, and to me based on faulty reasoning.
To elaborate and clarify, this is the order of events:
1) Wrath of Dog votes Guardman for his PR - claiming that MH wouldn't put that in this game. 2) Zajnet barns WoD and votes Guardman for his PR stating that MH wouldn't put it in this game and also that he feels the fact that he can't make his own lolcats is off. (I'm not looking at that post right now but I think that's about the size of it). 3) Zajnet unvotes Guardman while waiting for him to answer his question about being Spot (which he asks in the same post). 4) Zajnet states that he is as of yet unsure what to do about Guardman.
The problem with #4 is that Zajnet voted Guardman because he didn't believe that MH would put in a PR and he doesn't like the fact Guardman can't use his own lolcats. Nothing yet has happened to go against those points. The fact that he unvotes Guardman while asking him a question completely unrelated to the reason he voted him (i.e. are you spot?) is off. The fact that he states he doesn't know what he wants to do about Guardman when he already voted him while stating his reasons for doing so and had no reason to unvote is also off. This is what I'm saying.
To elaborate and clarify, this is the order of events:
1) Wrath of Dog votes Guardman for his PR - claiming that MH wouldn't put that in this game. 2) Zajnet barns WoD and votes Guardman for his PR stating that MH wouldn't put it in this game and also that he feels the fact that he can't make his own lolcats is off. (I'm not looking at that post right now but I think that's about the size of it). 3) Zajnet unvotes Guardman while waiting for him to answer his question about being Spot (which he asks in the same post). 4) Zajnet states that he is as of yet unsure what to do about Guardman.
The problem with #4 is that Zajnet voted Guardman because he didn't believe that MH would put in a PR and he doesn't like the fact Guardman can't use his own lolcats. Nothing yet has happened to go against those points. The fact that he unvotes Guardman while asking him a question completely unrelated to the reason he voted him (i.e. are you spot?) is off. The fact that he states he doesn't know what he wants to do about Guardman when he already voted him while stating his reasons for doing so and had no reason to unvote is also off. This is what I'm saying.
Wow, I guess I missed that vote on me. So you were just planning to let it hang out there without doing anything until someone pressed you? And your reasoning is "tone" and "metagaming reasons"? Excuse me if I'll want you to elaborate a bit.
I was quite surprised when no one asked me of my reasoning for my vote. No, I think I'm going to be vague about it for the time being. I'll have more to work with later on and I'm content to keep my vote here for now.
However, we are now talking about what you say was your opinion prior to this game. Either way, I don't think there's anyway that you can convince me there's no inconsistencies or there's a good reason for the inconsistencies at this point. I just need to figure out if the inconsistencies mean that you are scum. I'm dropping this conversation for now.
That's fine, Mister Kitty. I don't deny there are inconsistencies, and whether or not you accept the fact that I changed my mind on my perception of things is in fact what is the case.
Highlights at this time. I will have examples after my notes are in order.
Blue still comes off scummy to me. He declares suspicioun on his wagon, but did not investigate those on his wagon till much later and had to be asked to do so. His point on BE for the strikes was a stretch to say the least. Some of the arguments he made came off as making a mountain out of a mole hill
Zaj: First talks about blue being shifty, votes for BE with no reason found, then votes for Guard all without answering any questions towards him. He riding in my view an under the radar ride. I have yet to see anything from him that is content
People I wish to reread a second time: AE and LC
Town:
BE
EP
TIM
@WoD: Are you asking me about the PR that Guard is using and calling it scummy because of Flame Warriors?
If you are that is seriously mod gaming.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
LC
blue
Zajnet
pinkys brain (post reading the game)
BE
I'm not pushing the issue any further, but you would be the first that the strategy failed with (of the games I've played with what are effectively mutes). PM did a stellar job.
Now, if you want more "Guardman says" sentences you should cobble some posts together with what you want and we will make it and i will link it in my sig.
Just saw this. Sorry i've been working :danceS: (I just moved to OK and just got a temp job)
and this may shock and appall you,
unvote blueelectric
My scumlist:
Pinky's Brain (Atlseal)
Archmage Eternal
Guardman
Archmage Eternal's attack on guardman feels like bussing to me. Atlseal is very logical and very methodical when it comes to these games so I'm not sure why he never attacked me for any of the crap I was saying (I'll explain that statement if the need arises). If he hadn't replaced out i would have been voting him on my next post so, sorry Pinky:
Vote Pinky's Brain
I can't ask you to explain atlseal's actions/thought processes but you're where my vote belongs.
LC's #244 is an excellent response - especially the initial part re: not understanding why he thought blue's question was unclear.
Syrenz makes a good post re: Zaj, although I'll have to review the incident fully to get a better understanding of it first. I think I've found a better direction though:
Quote from BlueElectric »
I was quite surprised when no one asked me of my reasoning for my vote. No, I think I'm going to be vague about it for the time being. I'll have more to work with later on and I'm content to keep my vote here for now.
I was thinking about this over dinner. Initially I thought this sounded relatively townie, but the more I considered it the less happy I became. Townies vote to get responses, or to get their target lynched - withholding rationale does nothing (I suppose it's theoretically possible to vote someone to get reactions from others, but there has been ample time for reactions to BE's initial vote and by further withholding her reasoning it is clear that this is not her intent). So what good reason does a townie have for withholding their rationale - I can't think of any. I think it's a reasonable move for scum trying to look townie. Combine that with BE's earlier use of "third vote on a random wagon" as a scumtell - something that an experienced player should be aware is not a scumtell - and I'm comfortable in Unvote. Vote: BlueElectric.
So Mister Iceman, the fact that I don't feel now is the time to explain why I don't like your general tone for town makes me mafia? Your logic is irrefutable, good sir.
So Mister Iceman, the fact that I don't feel now is the time to explain why I don't like your general tone for town makes me mafia? Your logic is irrefutable, good sir.
Atlseal is very logical and very methodical when it comes to these games so I'm not sure why he never attacked me for any of the crap I was saying (I'll explain that statement if the need arises). If he hadn't replaced out i would have been voting him on my next post so, sorry Pinky:
Vote Pinky's Brain
I can't ask you to explain atlseal's actions/thought processes but you're where my vote belongs.
@WoD: Are you asking me about the PR that Guard is using and calling it scummy because of Flame Warriors?
If you are that is seriously mod gaming.
Yes, it is, but I asked you specifically about it, because you were in that game, and you would have seen how caustically and derogatory Manders' response to the PR she had was. (And the PMs I got were worse)
What I'd like to know from you, Pinky, is... Based on Manders rather caustic responses regarding her post restriction in that game and previous games, do you really think that she'd put a post restriction so restrictive in one of her own games?
The way I see it, this is a win-win situation for me - Either Guardman is scum and faking his PR, or I get to throw Manders' behaviour in Flame Warriors back in her face, if she really did put that posting restriction in this game.
Yes, it is, but I asked you specifically about it, because you were in that game, and you would have seen how caustically and derogatory Manders' response to the PR she had was. (And the PMs I got were worse)
What I'd like to know from you, Pinky, is... Based on Manders rather caustic responses regarding her post restriction in that game and previous games, do you really think that she'd put a post restriction so restrictive in one of her own games?
The way I see it, this is a win-win situation for me - Either Guardman is scum and faking his PR, or I get to throw Manders' behaviour in Flame Warriors back in her face, if she really did put that posting restriction in this game.
Yes, I am a douchebag.
I'm not a mind reader on Manders but I can tell you my own experience. I hate Post Restrictions with a passion. I complain about them too but I have given post restrictions to other players when I create a game.
Hypocritical?
Yes
Funny as hell?
Absolutely!
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I'm caught up. I don't like the recent comments from BE in regards to Iceman.
Zajnet and blue are still on my scum list.
I had a few comments from my last two pages now. I have to get the stuff from prior in order later today.
Mister DoG for reasons I've already stated as well as the fact that he hasn't done anything remotely resembling a town action since then.
Mister Iceman for tone and metagaming reasons.
I don't undertand your reasons for iceman. Can you quotes/explain better because I don't see it.
Quote from BE »
I was quite surprised when no one asked me of my reasoning for my vote. No, I think I'm going to be vague about it for the time being. I'll have more to work with later on and I'm content to keep my vote here for now
So Mister Iceman, the fact that I don't feel now is the time to explain why I don't like your general tone for town makes me mafia? Your logic is irrefutable, good sir.
Sitting on a vote without explain why someone is scum is town?
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I don't undertand your reasons for iceman. Can you quotes/explain better because I don't see it.
No.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
Why?
See below.
Quote from pinkys_brain »
Sitting on a vote without explain why someone is scum is town?
By highlighting the behavior I dislike but not fully explaining myself, I am encouraging the rest of the town to look at his behavior and see if they come to the same conclusion that I do.
By highlighting the behavior I dislike but not fully explaining myself, I am encouraging the rest of the town to look at his behavior and see if they come to the same conclusion that I do.
You did not "highlight" anything. You said "tone" (which is incredibly vague) and "metagaming reasons" (which no one could reasonably be expected to actually follow up on without some guidance). Furthermore, if this was actually your intention, you would have said something to that extent earlier - instead, you never gave any indication that you were interested in getting other people's input. I'm calling BS. So should others.
Truth is I haven't played mafia in over a year. My analyzing and scumhunting skills are awful right now. I felt like I was a better day 1 fodder for lynch than anyone else because there's very little chance I would be able to help win the game later on, BUT I felt my lynch would be able to help people with their reads, especially if I just kept talking and talking (and it helped I was getting overly emotional responding to BE).
And then it didn't look like my wagon was going to get me lynched so I actually had to start scumhunting.
Granted ATLseal knows me IRL and he was making some decent points which I agreed with, but never commenting on my posts at all is either blind acceptance that I'm town or he knows I'm town. Either way it doesn't make any sense for a town ATL to do. I was really hoping I could confirm my suspicions but he replaced out.
I honestly don't think I'm going to be able to help much this game. I no longer think I'm the right lynch for today so here's my breakdown.
My scumminess meter goes:
(highest)
Pinky's Brain/atlseal (above stated reasons in this post)
Archmage Eternal (feels like the attack on guardman is bussing. This is probably weak for everyone else but it's a strong gut read for me.)
Emo_Pinata (The vote on my wagon early I felt was for weak justification and I think the "hahaha = nervous laughter" comment was unnecessary and scummy. The interpretation of my posts looks like a viewpoint of a person trying to paint someone as scum rather than actually believing I'm scum)
Guardman (this is lower than emo but because Archmage feels like he's bussing guardman I put guardman in my top 3 earlier)
BlueElectric (an interesting interaction here is the comment that "one of atlseal and blue are scum." which has a reverse indication that if I'm town Atlseal is town. Since BE was pushing for my lynch I have to believe once I was lynched she would try to use this as evidence that ATLseal was town ergo a free pass. Highly possible BE and ATL are scum buddies)
TheIceMan (I think TIM was trying too hard to reason with me in the back and forth about dying/being concerned with dying. It feels like using kid gloves with a slow minded person. It could be town trying to avoid a mislynch or understand another player. It didn't feel forced it was just interesting. The other thing is TIM picking up the BE wagon after I drop it. I have to re-read his justifications soon)
as you can see there's a lot of weird things going on in my head and a lot of interactions that could make so and so scummy but not enough to put them at the top of my list.
Anyone on the bottom of the list I've already commented on or I just need to re-read the newer stuff/they need to post more.
Just saw this. Sorry i've been working :danceS: (I just moved to OK and just got a temp job)
and this may shock and appall you,
unvote blueelectric
My scumlist:
Pinky's Brain (Atlseal)
Archmage Eternal
Guardman
Archmage Eternal's attack on guardman feels like bussing to me. Atlseal is very logical and very methodical when it comes to these games so I'm not sure why he never attacked me for any of the crap I was saying (I'll explain that statement if the need arises). If he hadn't replaced out i would have been voting him on my next post so, sorry Pinky:
Vote Pinky's Brain
I can't ask you to explain atlseal's actions/thought processes but you're where my vote belongs.
Whether you think atlseal/Pinky is scum or not, this is entirely useless. You are attacking Pinky for something she (?) cannot respond to. Ergo there can be no discussion on this wagon. Ergo this will not go anywhere and you are wasting time. Additionally, your reasoning for voting atlseal is pretty weak. Please choose a new direction and get on a wagon that has a chance of moving somewhere. Otherwise we'll just be sitting here forever.
Yes, it is, but I asked you specifically about it, because you were in that game, and you would have seen how caustically and derogatory Manders' response to the PR she had was. (And the PMs I got were worse)
What I'd like to know from you, Pinky, is... Based on Manders rather caustic responses regarding her post restriction in that game and previous games, do you really think that she'd put a post restriction so restrictive in one of her own games?
The way I see it, this is a win-win situation for me - Either Guardman is scum and faking his PR, or I get to throw Manders' behaviour in Flame Warriors back in her face, if she really did put that posting restriction in this game.
Yes, I am a douchebag.
This... is entirely useless. Can you please drop this for the time being? It's clearly not going anywhere today. I'd like to see you talk about something else.
Well, there's only one way to find out if I'm bluffing, Mister Iceman. Run me up, if you can.
... Please try to act useful. If you think TIM is scum - be less vague about it. Outline what you find scummy about his behavior. If you think he is scum - you should be actively trying to get him strung up and helping the rest of us understand what you see. What you're doing now is just completely useless and distracting.
To elaborate and clarify, this is the order of events:
1) Wrath of Dog votes Guardman for his PR - claiming that MH wouldn't put that in this game.
2) Zajnet barns WoD and votes Guardman for his PR stating that MH wouldn't put it in this game and also that he feels the fact that he can't make his own lolcats is off. (I'm not looking at that post right now but I think that's about the size of it).
3) Zajnet unvotes Guardman while waiting for him to answer his question about being Spot (which he asks in the same post).
4) Zajnet states that he is as of yet unsure what to do about Guardman.
The problem with #4 is that Zajnet voted Guardman because he didn't believe that MH would put in a PR and he doesn't like the fact Guardman can't use his own lolcats. Nothing yet has happened to go against those points. The fact that he unvotes Guardman while asking him a question completely unrelated to the reason he voted him (i.e. are you spot?) is off. The fact that he states he doesn't know what he wants to do about Guardman when he already voted him while stating his reasons for doing so and had no reason to unvote is also off. This is what I'm saying.
Whether you think atlseal/Pinky is scum or not, this is entirely useless. You are attacking Pinky for something she (?) cannot respond to. Ergo there can be no discussion on this wagon. Ergo this will not go anywhere and you are wasting time. Additionally, your reasoning for voting atlseal is pretty weak. Please choose a new direction and get on a wagon that has a chance of moving somewhere. Otherwise we'll just be sitting here forever.
Actually, blue's logic regarding atlseal is quite astute when you read the whole case he presented; but you're right that it's a dead issue since atlseal cannot defend it.
I want to frame these points from EP post 63
about blue. I did not care for blue reactions to the wagon. Blue states nobody finds it suspicious, but BE already brought up the BW vote from WoD.
@BE: I going to say right off the bat about BW votes during RVS and having scum on them is not true. I have seen RVS with town all in a row and I have seen 1 scum add there vote to the RVS.
It really is not a tell just because you saw it a few times. Hell I have seen RVS vote first post come from scum.
Quote from Iceman »
blue's whole response is pretty decent. I do have a question:
What did you think of BE's reply back?
And as of post 83 thanks to Syrez and post 80 from TIM, I have blue on my official scum list.
One moment there is concern about the votes and insinuates suspicion on those on the wagon:
Oh I am not worried about actually dying. The point is that there ARE random votes at all to contribute to the vote count. If 3 are random then it means my threshhold for being lynched is actually only 4 (assuming none of the scum are in the random votes). The dying part is moot, it's going to happen or it won't.
Also if it really was so freeking suspicious why did blue never point out the flaw from those votes except for BE, who was the person who talked about the quick BW in the first place?
Being the third vote on somebody is one of the weaker tells, though. It should never be used to build a cake case, but rather be the icing on that cake.
And "Firstly, overall lack of attention to events up to that point." is about the stupidest thing possible to say ON THE FIRST PAGE.
Give us some time to do a full read but it appears that BlueElectric is being very defensive / secretive not willing to read more into that before the full read.
Only just got a minute to check back in and I was hoping that I might actually see an RVS stage last a little longer this time. Guess not this time. Ah well I can live in hope for the next game.
Unvote WOD
Where are you getting that BE is being secretive (this was before the TIM comment)?
Also because I'm not sure I explained clearly enough:
Why imply 3 if really it's more than 3? What purpose does it serve to use the term "strikes" if you were giving him anything but three strikes? To me the only purpose I can see is trying to paint WOD as scummier than he actually was.
At first I read comments like this and thought blue could not be serious but he continued the same comment over and over again.
I personally took the strikes comment as just a joke.
Quote from blue »
I have given you reason why your reasons are crap. And for the record I don't feel any pressure
I would say pointing out the wagon and pointing out you were at l-2 was you would feel pressure there.
When someone gets to L2 while there are still random votes on them THAT is inherently suspicious to me.
It is only incidental that this wagon happened to be on me.
I have separated them in my mind. Why is that so hard to understand O_o.
Also: I don't care how I come off. I'm not saying "hey you're going to make me look scummy" (I'm doing a fair job of that myself thanks). I do care how people use words and why. Deceptive and manipulative language screams scum to me. Read my response to BE and let me know if you understand my thought process any better. If not, there's really nothing else I can say.
Not directed to me, but the fact you noticed the wagon, asked if it was suspicious and then called out BE who also noticed the wagon.
That just does not make sense.
Now I see blue doesn’t even comment about the wagon that was on him and instead talks about those who didn’t vote……
@Blue did you believe that your wagon had scum on it or not?
Quote from blue »
If by paranoid you mean I think you're scum because your use of language is what I consider manipulative and deceptive then sure.
Imagine a picture of a pot and a kettle.
Quote from blue »
Am I interpreting things other than you intended? Or am I calling you out because I understand the true meaning of your words and you're trying to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about. I believe I see your underlying message and intent. I also believe you're belittling me at this point by your tone and it's not going to make my suspicions go away.
Seriously the whole 3 strikes things is a stretch in the biggest way possible. You took a comment and twisted into the biggest thing and most scummiest comment made.
Quote from blue »
Blueelectric stated "It implies 3 strikes" followed by "but not actually" The initial statement strike two implies that WOD only gets 3 strikes. That seems to be mutually agreed upon by everyone.
Everyone??!!! Where?
Quote from Syrenz »
Okay, so that's interesting to me. So we are talking about a player who has played over 20 games (more than me probably) and who you consider "very good at this game." Based on that, how do you read the fact that she believes that the 3rd vote on a RVS wagon is a legitimate scumtell? This sounds like a very newbie/or poggy type opinion to hold. How do you reconcile this behavior with the fact that you consider her "very good" and experienced.
My point is that Blue Electric's play this game (as a whole) does not appear to be coming from a highly experienced and very good player (to my eyes). How do you feel about that? Is Blue Electric's play this game normal BE play in your opinion?
I know this was directed to atseal.
I don't know BE, but in my experience I have seen people who use things from RVS as tells. First example is Arcadic attacking me in Cyan game based on my comment during RVS. Another player who was town Llamafluff caught Haylen in a game for using smiles too much during RVS.
It's silly but in my view everyone has something that comes from past experiences. I personally use past experience and if I know the person meta behavior.
Example was I felt a player in another game Shadow Dancer was scummy right from the RVS just for dice rolling because it went against his normal behavior I am used to for him as town.
This is all above reason's why I don't see anything wrong with BE or her theory. I see it more coming from someone who is town using past experiences.
Quote from atseal »
I think she's scum (no, her play is not normally like this). Her excuse is that she's trying to play differently, but for a mistake of that magnitude, I don't buy it.
BE this was in regards to you. Can you tell me where if you ever believe during RVS or anytime a BW has scum on it before in a game?
@Blue post 153: Why did Syrenz have to point out that you had not commented on those on your wagon for you to do any read?
By highlighting the behavior I dislike but not fully explaining myself, I am encouraging the rest of the town to look at his behavior and see if they come to the same conclusion that I do.
I have read the game in full and I do not see anything that indicates anything that you have. I do not know TIM's meta, I found his comments to be thoughtful, expressive and asking questions on people and understanding views from others more then anything you stated.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I have read the game in full and I do not see anything that indicates anything that you have. I do not know TIM's meta, I found his comments to be thoughtful, expressive and asking questions on people and understanding views from others more then anything you stated.
My suspicions are based mostly on the fact that Mister Iceman's tone does not strike me as his typical town tone. I could provide vague metagaming comparisons but it's more something that I think everyone else would have to see for themselves.
My suspicions are based mostly on the fact that Mister Iceman's tone does not strike me as his typical town tone. I could provide vague metagaming comparisons but it's more something that I think everyone else would have to see for themselves.
This is all so much bull****.
Previously, you said that you wanted the town to look at my behavior and see if they found it scummy. Unreasonable and unhelpful, certainly, and likely scummy for a player whom atlseal calls experienced. Now, your read is entirely based on meta, so you expected that without further elaboration or direction people would be interested in looking through a random sampling of my meta for vague differences in "tone" (remember: BE actually expected people to be doing this once she had voted me). This is beyond asinine. Townies don't think this way.
Townies vote to get responses, or to get their target lynched - withholding rationale does nothing (I suppose it's theoretically possible to vote someone to get reactions from others, but there has been ample time for reactions to BE's initial vote and by further withholding her reasoning it is clear that this is not her intent). So what good reason does a townie have for withholding their rationale - I can't think of any. I think it's a reasonable move for scum trying to look townie.
Wow, I have this amazing feeling that I already pre-emptively answered this.
Previously, you said that you wanted the town to look at my behavior and see if they found it scummy. Unreasonable and unhelpful, certainly, and likely scummy for a player whom atlseal calls experienced. Now, your read is entirely based on meta, so you expected that without further elaboration or direction people would be interested in looking through a random sampling of my meta for vague differences in "tone" (remember: BE actually expected people to be doing this once she had voted me). This is beyond asinine. Townies don't think this way.
But that was pretty clever, the way you tried to remove your vote (without remembering if you were voting) without looking suspicious.
In regards to your question, because if I had, I couldn't get reactions like this out of players like you.
In related news, Mister DoG is clearly trolling me at this point.
No, I did that to prove a point. Actual votes mean nothing, unless it's on a lynching wagon, and there's really no reason I can think of where I'd need to use such a tricksy way to unvote. If I wanted to unvote, I'd have just done it. Oh wait, I did.
And the only person I was trolling is TIM, because I dislike people who tell us how people of certain alignments think or don't think. To take a page of kpaca's book, I believe that there are no universal scumtells - only mindset analysis. The third vote on a wagon is not always from a mafia, townies lie as much as scum, but the difference is their reactions when called on it.
To you, my response was (while admittedly very dry and sarcastic) authentic. I did legitimately want to know why you voted the way you did.
My suspicions are based mostly on the fact that Mister Iceman's tone does not strike me as his typical town tone. I could provide vague metagaming comparisons but it's more something that I think everyone else would have to see for themselves.
I know that lurking is an effective strategy and all, but we should all focus on Zajnet (unvote, vote Zajnet). Letting him go since his last post (linking himself to LC was terrible on top of everything else) is just silly, and especially since he's not addressed Syrenz even a little.
MOD: IT'S BEEN A WEEK SINCE KAHEDRON LAST POSTED, AND SIX DAYS SINCE ZAJNET POSTED. IT'S ALSO BEEN A WHILE SINCE A VOTECOUNT.
I want to frame these points from EP post 63
about blue. I did not care for blue reactions to the wagon. Blue states nobody finds it suspicious, but BE already brought up the BW vote from WoD.
I found the fact that the wagon got to 5 with random votes suspicious. BE jumped on WOD for a weak reasoning and I don't see that the issues are the same. You're ignoring facts.
@BE: I going to say right off the bat about BW votes during RVS and having scum on them is not true. I have seen RVS with town all in a row and I have seen 1 scum add there vote to the RVS.
It really is not a tell just because you saw it a few times. Hell I have seen RVS vote first post come from scum.
What did you think of BE's reply back?
And as of post 83 thanks to Syrez and post 80 from TIM, I have blue on my official scum list.
One moment there is concern about the votes and insinuates suspicion on those on the wagon:
The next is whatever attitude and acknowledging they were random.
Acknowledging that there WERE random votes and the wagon was already to 5 votes.
Also if it really was so freeking suspicious why did blue never point out the flaw from those votes except for BE, who was the person who talked about the quick BW in the first place?
O_o are you even reading the rest of the game?
I would say pointing out the wagon and pointing out you were at l-2 was you would feel pressure there.
You would be wrong.
Not directed to me, but the fact you noticed the wagon, asked if it was suspicious and then called out BE who also noticed the wagon.
That just does not make sense.
You've still got this backwards. I was suspicious of BE for her reasons for voting WOD. She wasn't suspicious of Syrenz or Emo or TIM for voting afterward. We are not suspicious about the wagon for the same reasons regardless of if you can use the same phrase to describe it. Her vote on WOD was silly based on a "trap" she says later she was setting for "opportunistic" mafia to take. She claims she still thinks she's right in the back of her mind on that weak reasoning that WOD is scum and is only waiting til she can get enough support to lynch him. I think the whole thing is baloney.
Let me ask you a question: Have you ever agreed with the logic of someone who turned out to be scum? Or better yet, since this fits this situation, have you ever been suspicious of someone who seemed to have some of the same thoughts you did?
@Blue did you believe that your wagon had scum on it or not?
Yes. You can read my current scumlist to get more information.
@Blue post 153: Why did Syrenz have to point out that you had not commented on those on your wagon for you to do any read?[/quote]
I've explained this now. Read my response to Emo.
In regards to Atseals view on blue. It is not my oppinion. I found blue's post scummy as of page 2 and have no clue why Atseal did not.
It also feels like you didn't read anything past page 2. Read my responses, my analysis of the game, and my last few posts because I've answered some of these questions already. You've also asked Zajnet a question which was answered already, i even mentioned it in my re-read posts.
But let's just take a look at a few of your quotes for a second shall we?:
At first I read comments like this and thought blue could not be serious but he continued the same comment over and over again. I personally took the strikes comment as just a joke.
Seriously the whole 3 strikes things is a stretch in the biggest way possible. You took a comment and twisted into the biggest thing and most scummiest comment made.
Everyone??!!! Where?
You seem to hold the opinion that the strikes issue isn't an issue. If it's not an issue then whether or not everyone agree is moot. So why so incredulous that I've made this statement? You almost had me convinced that you were actually scumhunting but this portion makes me feel like you're reaching. Not only that you don't seem to have read everything in the game.
BE: If you're against letting people know your history because you think we should be using this game to analyze skills and how good you are then how can you possibly justify your comment about TIM and using meta to read him O_o?
BE: If you're against letting people know your history because you think we should be using this game to analyze skills and how good you are then how can you possibly justify your comment about TIM and using meta to read him O_o?
Because I don't need my game and action history coming back to haunt me, Mister Blue.
I am terribly sorry I have neglected you guys. RL has been just too much for me to do anything else. I will have prods and a votecount for you later today or tomorrow.
My first inclination would be to guess that your response would be to the effect of, "Mafia think that way, Miss Blue!!!111 ^_^" Do correct me if I'm wrong.
I found the fact that the wagon got to 5 with random votes suspicious. BE jumped on WOD for a weak reasoning and I don't see that the issues are the same. You're ignoring facts.
Like what?
Why is it weak for BE find WoD scummy for jumping on the BW but perfectly reasonable for you to state suspicion on your wagon?
Acknowledging that there WERE random votes and the wagon was already to 5 votes.
Zajnet looks random. I don't know about WoD and BE unvoted her random vote. Only one person of the 5 really looks random.
O_o are you even reading the rest of the game?
Yes. I believe you stated Emo after on this page that was suspicious. Did I miss something?
You've still got this backwards. I was suspicious of BE for her reasons for voting WOD. She wasn't suspicious of Syrenz or Emo or TIM for voting afterward. We are not suspicious about the wagon for the same reasons regardless of if you can use the same phrase to describe it. Her vote on WOD was silly based on a "trap" she says later she was setting for "opportunistic" mafia to take. She claims she still thinks she's right in the back of her mind on that weak reasoning that WOD is scum and is only waiting til she can get enough support to lynch him. I think the whole thing is baloney.
You didn't state suspicion on Syrenz or TIM early on. You made a statement about Emo and BE had her's toward WoD.
Also when I asked you about if you looked at those on your wagon and who was scum. Your post here post 257
You did not stated any of the 5 people that were on your wagon.
votes on blue:
(5) Zajnet, WoD, TIM, Emo, Syrenz
I asked you specifically who on the wagon was scum because none of the 5 here were on your scum list.
You made a statement after the fact about Emo. Which I find incredible rediculous or hypocritcal.
You again took something someone had an oppinon on and twisted it as scummy.
Your case on AE is about bussing Guard. Which is oppion. Nothing in your case is factual.
Quote from blue »
Let me ask you a question: Have you ever agreed with the logic of someone who turned out to be scum? Or better yet, since this fits this situation, have you ever been suspicious of someone who seemed to have some of the same thoughts you did?
1) Yes
2) If the person is following me and my logic I'm suspicious of them. If they pointed out something I found suspicious first and commented about it before I did, no.
Why would the later be suspicious?
You seem to hold the opinion that the strikes issue isn't an issue. If it's not an issue then whether or not everyone agree is moot. So why so incredulous that I've made this statement? You almost had me convinced that you were actually scumhunting but this portion makes me feel like you're reaching. Not only that you don't seem to have read everything in the game.
Because I found you to be twisting the term strikes into something scummy and making a bigger issue then it actually was.
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My suspicions are based mostly on the fact that Mister Iceman's tone does not strike me as his typical town tone. I could provide vague metagaming comparisons but it's more something that I think everyone else would have to see for themselves.
I have no clue how you expect anyone to have the same view or see anything you see from TIM that you have not explained. Tone/meta is all in the eye of each individual person.
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My first inclination would be to guess that your response would be to the effect of, "Mafia think that way, Miss Blue!!!111 ^_^" Do correct me if I'm wrong.
So let's get this straight. I said something to the effect of "Townies don't do X."
Not only is it incredibly clear what I meant (that scum do X - and I can't think of any possible other meaning) but furthermore you have now also suitably demonstrated that you knew what I meant in the first place. Again, why ask a question you know the answer to?
There are three possible alignments in games, Mister Iceman, and I wanted it on record what you were saying so that you couldn't backtrack on it later. I would like to know why you couldn't simply answer my question.
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Wow, I guess I missed that vote on me. So you were just planning to let it hang out there without doing anything until someone pressed you? And your reasoning is "tone" and "metagaming reasons"? Excuse me if I'll want you to elaborate a bit.
However, we are now talking about what you say was your opinion prior to this game. Either way, I don't think there's anyway that you can convince me there's no inconsistencies or there's a good reason for the inconsistencies at this point. I just need to figure out if the inconsistencies mean that you are scum. I'm dropping this conversation for now.
To elaborate and clarify, this is the order of events:
1) Wrath of Dog votes Guardman for his PR - claiming that MH wouldn't put that in this game.
2) Zajnet barns WoD and votes Guardman for his PR stating that MH wouldn't put it in this game and also that he feels the fact that he can't make his own lolcats is off. (I'm not looking at that post right now but I think that's about the size of it).
3) Zajnet unvotes Guardman while waiting for him to answer his question about being Spot (which he asks in the same post).
4) Zajnet states that he is as of yet unsure what to do about Guardman.
The problem with #4 is that Zajnet voted Guardman because he didn't believe that MH would put in a PR and he doesn't like the fact Guardman can't use his own lolcats. Nothing yet has happened to go against those points. The fact that he unvotes Guardman while asking him a question completely unrelated to the reason he voted him (i.e. are you spot?) is off. The fact that he states he doesn't know what he wants to do about Guardman when he already voted him while stating his reasons for doing so and had no reason to unvote is also off. This is what I'm saying.
I am finding your use of lolcats hilarious and quite appropriate.
Hello there.
----
I'd like to see more votes on Zajnet. I'd like to see more posts from Zajnet. I'd like to see something from Kahedron.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
"He has a PR and Manders wouldn't put a PR like that in her game so Guardman is scum, lying, or both."
That is the summation of the case against Mister Guardman.
I was quite surprised when no one asked me of my reasoning for my vote. No, I think I'm going to be vague about it for the time being. I'll have more to work with later on and I'm content to keep my vote here for now.
That's fine, Mister Kitty. I don't deny there are inconsistencies, and whether or not you accept the fact that I changed my mind on my perception of things is in fact what is the case.
Highlights at this time. I will have examples after my notes are in order.
Blue still comes off scummy to me. He declares suspicioun on his wagon, but did not investigate those on his wagon till much later and had to be asked to do so. His point on BE for the strikes was a stretch to say the least. Some of the arguments he made came off as making a mountain out of a mole hill
Zaj: First talks about blue being shifty, votes for BE with no reason found, then votes for Guard all without answering any questions towards him. He riding in my view an under the radar ride. I have yet to see anything from him that is content
People I wish to reread a second time: AE and LC
Town:
BE
EP
TIM
@WoD: Are you asking me about the PR that Guard is using and calling it scummy because of Flame Warriors?
If you are that is seriously mod gaming.
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Just saw this. Sorry i've been working :danceS: (I just moved to OK and just got a temp job)
and this may shock and appall you,
unvote blueelectric
My scumlist:
Pinky's Brain (Atlseal)
Archmage Eternal
Guardman
Archmage Eternal's attack on guardman feels like bussing to me. Atlseal is very logical and very methodical when it comes to these games so I'm not sure why he never attacked me for any of the crap I was saying (I'll explain that statement if the need arises). If he hadn't replaced out i would have been voting him on my next post so, sorry Pinky:
Vote Pinky's Brain
I can't ask you to explain atlseal's actions/thought processes but you're where my vote belongs.
Syrenz makes a good post re: Zaj, although I'll have to review the incident fully to get a better understanding of it first. I think I've found a better direction though:
I was thinking about this over dinner. Initially I thought this sounded relatively townie, but the more I considered it the less happy I became. Townies vote to get responses, or to get their target lynched - withholding rationale does nothing (I suppose it's theoretically possible to vote someone to get reactions from others, but there has been ample time for reactions to BE's initial vote and by further withholding her reasoning it is clear that this is not her intent). So what good reason does a townie have for withholding their rationale - I can't think of any. I think it's a reasonable move for scum trying to look townie. Combine that with BE's earlier use of "third vote on a random wagon" as a scumtell - something that an experienced player should be aware is not a scumtell - and I'm comfortable in Unvote. Vote: BlueElectric.
Pretty much, yes.
What I'd like to know from you, Pinky, is... Based on Manders rather caustic responses regarding her post restriction in that game and previous games, do you really think that she'd put a post restriction so restrictive in one of her own games?
The way I see it, this is a win-win situation for me - Either Guardman is scum and faking his PR, or I get to throw Manders' behaviour in Flame Warriors back in her face, if she really did put that posting restriction in this game.
Yes, I am a douchebag.
I'm not a mind reader on Manders but I can tell you my own experience. I hate Post Restrictions with a passion. I complain about them too but I have given post restrictions to other players when I create a game.
Hypocritical?
Yes
Funny as hell?
Absolutely!
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Zajnet and blue are still on my scum list.
I had a few comments from my last two pages now. I have to get the stuff from prior in order later today.
@BE: post 223 why did you vote for TIM?
And Zajnet jumped on Gman for faulty reasoning. Was there a point to this?
What does this have to do with Zajnet's votes on Guard and subsequent backtracking?
What made it a good vote still?
*waves*
I don't undertand your reasons for iceman. Can you quotes/explain better because I don't see it.
Why?
Sitting on a vote without explain why someone is scum is town?
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I did state why when asked.
No.
See below.
By highlighting the behavior I dislike but not fully explaining myself, I am encouraging the rest of the town to look at his behavior and see if they come to the same conclusion that I do.
You did not "highlight" anything. You said "tone" (which is incredibly vague) and "metagaming reasons" (which no one could reasonably be expected to actually follow up on without some guidance). Furthermore, if this was actually your intention, you would have said something to that extent earlier - instead, you never gave any indication that you were interested in getting other people's input. I'm calling BS. So should others.
What, did I forget to unvote it? Unvote
Sure:
Truth is I haven't played mafia in over a year. My analyzing and scumhunting skills are awful right now. I felt like I was a better day 1 fodder for lynch than anyone else because there's very little chance I would be able to help win the game later on, BUT I felt my lynch would be able to help people with their reads, especially if I just kept talking and talking (and it helped I was getting overly emotional responding to BE).
And then it didn't look like my wagon was going to get me lynched so I actually had to start scumhunting.
Granted ATLseal knows me IRL and he was making some decent points which I agreed with, but never commenting on my posts at all is either blind acceptance that I'm town or he knows I'm town. Either way it doesn't make any sense for a town ATL to do. I was really hoping I could confirm my suspicions but he replaced out.
I honestly don't think I'm going to be able to help much this game. I no longer think I'm the right lynch for today so here's my breakdown.
My scumminess meter goes:
(highest)
Pinky's Brain/atlseal (above stated reasons in this post)
Archmage Eternal (feels like the attack on guardman is bussing. This is probably weak for everyone else but it's a strong gut read for me.)
Emo_Pinata (The vote on my wagon early I felt was for weak justification and I think the "hahaha = nervous laughter" comment was unnecessary and scummy. The interpretation of my posts looks like a viewpoint of a person trying to paint someone as scum rather than actually believing I'm scum)
Guardman (this is lower than emo but because Archmage feels like he's bussing guardman I put guardman in my top 3 earlier)
BlueElectric (an interesting interaction here is the comment that "one of atlseal and blue are scum." which has a reverse indication that if I'm town Atlseal is town. Since BE was pushing for my lynch I have to believe once I was lynched she would try to use this as evidence that ATLseal was town ergo a free pass. Highly possible BE and ATL are scum buddies)
TheIceMan (I think TIM was trying too hard to reason with me in the back and forth about dying/being concerned with dying. It feels like using kid gloves with a slow minded person. It could be town trying to avoid a mislynch or understand another player. It didn't feel forced it was just interesting. The other thing is TIM picking up the BE wagon after I drop it. I have to re-read his justifications soon)
Syrenz
Zajnet
Liquidity Crisis
Wrath_of_DoG
Kahedron
(lowest)
as you can see there's a lot of weird things going on in my head and a lot of interactions that could make so and so scummy but not enough to put them at the top of my list.
Anyone on the bottom of the list I've already commented on or I just need to re-read the newer stuff/they need to post more.
Whether you think atlseal/Pinky is scum or not, this is entirely useless. You are attacking Pinky for something she (?) cannot respond to. Ergo there can be no discussion on this wagon. Ergo this will not go anywhere and you are wasting time. Additionally, your reasoning for voting atlseal is pretty weak. Please choose a new direction and get on a wagon that has a chance of moving somewhere. Otherwise we'll just be sitting here forever.
This... is entirely useless. Can you please drop this for the time being? It's clearly not going anywhere today. I'd like to see you talk about something else.
... Please try to act useful. If you think TIM is scum - be less vague about it. Outline what you find scummy about his behavior. If you think he is scum - you should be actively trying to get him strung up and helping the rest of us understand what you see. What you're doing now is just completely useless and distracting.
What is your opinion on Zajnet?
What is your opinion on this?:
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
At any rate, I could see Zajnet as mafia and wouldn't be surprised at all if Miss Pinkys is.
I want to frame these points from EP post 63
about blue. I did not care for blue reactions to the wagon. Blue states nobody finds it suspicious, but BE already brought up the BW vote from WoD.
@BE: I going to say right off the bat about BW votes during RVS and having scum on them is not true. I have seen RVS with town all in a row and I have seen 1 scum add there vote to the RVS.
It really is not a tell just because you saw it a few times. Hell I have seen RVS vote first post come from scum.
What did you think of BE's reply back?
And as of post 83 thanks to Syrez and post 80 from TIM, I have blue on my official scum list.
One moment there is concern about the votes and insinuates suspicion on those on the wagon:
The next is whatever attitude and acknowledging they were random.
Also if it really was so freeking suspicious why did blue never point out the flaw from those votes except for BE, who was the person who talked about the quick BW in the first place?
Unvote:
Vote: Blue
How is this indicative of BE being scum?
Why is pushing a case scummy?
Reason being what?
Where are you getting that BE is being secretive (this was before the TIM comment)?
At first I read comments like this and thought blue could not be serious but he continued the same comment over and over again.
I personally took the strikes comment as just a joke.
I would say pointing out the wagon and pointing out you were at l-2 was you would feel pressure there.
Not directed to me, but the fact you noticed the wagon, asked if it was suspicious and then called out BE who also noticed the wagon.
That just does not make sense.
Now I see blue doesn’t even comment about the wagon that was on him and instead talks about those who didn’t vote……
@Blue did you believe that your wagon had scum on it or not?
Imagine a picture of a pot and a kettle.
Seriously the whole 3 strikes things is a stretch in the biggest way possible. You took a comment and twisted into the biggest thing and most scummiest comment made.
Everyone??!!! Where?
I know this was directed to atseal.
I don't know BE, but in my experience I have seen people who use things from RVS as tells. First example is Arcadic attacking me in Cyan game based on my comment during RVS. Another player who was town Llamafluff caught Haylen in a game for using smiles too much during RVS.
It's silly but in my view everyone has something that comes from past experiences. I personally use past experience and if I know the person meta behavior.
Example was I felt a player in another game Shadow Dancer was scummy right from the RVS just for dice rolling because it went against his normal behavior I am used to for him as town.
This is all above reason's why I don't see anything wrong with BE or her theory. I see it more coming from someone who is town using past experiences.
BE this was in regards to you. Can you tell me where if you ever believe during RVS or anytime a BW has scum on it before in a game?
@Blue post 153: Why did Syrenz have to point out that you had not commented on those on your wagon for you to do any read?
Seriously???
@AE: Why did blue have to ask you about the wagon for you to notice the votes on blue?
In regards to Atseals view on blue. It is not my oppinion. I found blue's post scummy as of page 2 and have no clue why Atseal did not.
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I have read the game in full and I do not see anything that indicates anything that you have. I do not know TIM's meta, I found his comments to be thoughtful, expressive and asking questions on people and understanding views from others more then anything you stated.
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Unvote, Vote BlueElectric
And say "You all know why I'm doing this" as justification for my baseless vote.
Unvote
I've seen it but I do not recall where.
My suspicions are based mostly on the fact that Mister Iceman's tone does not strike me as his typical town tone. I could provide vague metagaming comparisons but it's more something that I think everyone else would have to see for themselves.
Ooh, that was a clever, Mister DoG. Tell me, who were you voting before that?
And I notice that you yourself dodged the question cleverly hidden within my pointed snark.
Why do you think it's ok to just throw a vote out there and let everyone else make of it what they will? Why didn't you justify it at the time?
This is all so much bull****.
Previously, you said that you wanted the town to look at my behavior and see if they found it scummy. Unreasonable and unhelpful, certainly, and likely scummy for a player whom atlseal calls experienced. Now, your read is entirely based on meta, so you expected that without further elaboration or direction people would be interested in looking through a random sampling of my meta for vague differences in "tone" (remember: BE actually expected people to be doing this once she had voted me). This is beyond asinine. Townies don't think this way.
* Wrath_of_DoG makes a cryptic motion with my hands in Iceman's direction.
Wow, I have this amazing feeling that I already pre-emptively answered this.
Any townie would have recognized the secret Townie Handshake I just offered you.
Wrong. You weren't voting anybody.
But that was pretty clever, the way you tried to remove your vote (without remembering if you were voting) without looking suspicious.
In regards to your question, because if I had, I couldn't get reactions like this out of players like you.
In related news, Mister DoG is clearly trolling me at this point.
Who thinks this way, then, Mister Iceman?
And the only person I was trolling is TIM, because I dislike people who tell us how people of certain alignments think or don't think. To take a page of kpaca's book, I believe that there are no universal scumtells - only mindset analysis. The third vote on a wagon is not always from a mafia, townies lie as much as scum, but the difference is their reactions when called on it.
To you, my response was (while admittedly very dry and sarcastic) authentic. I did legitimately want to know why you voted the way you did.
MOD: IT'S BEEN A WEEK SINCE KAHEDRON LAST POSTED, AND SIX DAYS SINCE ZAJNET POSTED. IT'S ALSO BEEN A WHILE SINCE A VOTECOUNT.
This made me lol.
Why ask this?
I found the fact that the wagon got to 5 with random votes suspicious. BE jumped on WOD for a weak reasoning and I don't see that the issues are the same. You're ignoring facts.
Acknowledging that there WERE random votes and the wagon was already to 5 votes.
O_o are you even reading the rest of the game?
You would be wrong.
You've still got this backwards. I was suspicious of BE for her reasons for voting WOD. She wasn't suspicious of Syrenz or Emo or TIM for voting afterward. We are not suspicious about the wagon for the same reasons regardless of if you can use the same phrase to describe it. Her vote on WOD was silly based on a "trap" she says later she was setting for "opportunistic" mafia to take. She claims she still thinks she's right in the back of her mind on that weak reasoning that WOD is scum and is only waiting til she can get enough support to lynch him. I think the whole thing is baloney.
Let me ask you a question: Have you ever agreed with the logic of someone who turned out to be scum? Or better yet, since this fits this situation, have you ever been suspicious of someone who seemed to have some of the same thoughts you did?
Yes. You can read my current scumlist to get more information.
@Blue post 153: Why did Syrenz have to point out that you had not commented on those on your wagon for you to do any read?[/quote]
I've explained this now. Read my response to Emo.
It also feels like you didn't read anything past page 2. Read my responses, my analysis of the game, and my last few posts because I've answered some of these questions already. You've also asked Zajnet a question which was answered already, i even mentioned it in my re-read posts.
But let's just take a look at a few of your quotes for a second shall we?:
You seem to hold the opinion that the strikes issue isn't an issue. If it's not an issue then whether or not everyone agree is moot. So why so incredulous that I've made this statement? You almost had me convinced that you were actually scumhunting but this portion makes me feel like you're reaching. Not only that you don't seem to have read everything in the game.
I agree with this.
BE: If you're against letting people know your history because you think we should be using this game to analyze skills and how good you are then how can you possibly justify your comment about TIM and using meta to read him O_o?
Playing Mafia, Mister Guardman. ^^
To net an answer, Mister Iceman.
Because I don't need my game and action history coming back to haunt me, Mister Blue.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
It's not a trick question, Mister Iceman. No need to be so coy.
Like what?
Why is it weak for BE find WoD scummy for jumping on the BW but perfectly reasonable for you to state suspicion on your wagon?
Zajnet looks random. I don't know about WoD and BE unvoted her random vote. Only one person of the 5 really looks random.
Yes. I believe you stated Emo after on this page that was suspicious. Did I miss something?
You didn't state suspicion on Syrenz or TIM early on. You made a statement about Emo and BE had her's toward WoD.
Also when I asked you about if you looked at those on your wagon and who was scum. Your post here post 257
You did not stated any of the 5 people that were on your wagon.
votes on blue:
(5) Zajnet, WoD, TIM, Emo, Syrenz
I asked you specifically who on the wagon was scum because none of the 5 here were on your scum list.
You made a statement after the fact about Emo. Which I find incredible rediculous or hypocritcal.
You again took something someone had an oppinon on and twisted it as scummy.
Your case on AE is about bussing Guard. Which is oppion. Nothing in your case is factual.
1) Yes
2) If the person is following me and my logic I'm suspicious of them. If they pointed out something I found suspicious first and commented about it before I did, no.
Why would the later be suspicious?
Because I found you to be twisting the term strikes into something scummy and making a bigger issue then it actually was.
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I have no clue how you expect anyone to have the same view or see anything you see from TIM that you have not explained. Tone/meta is all in the eye of each individual person.
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Also known at mafiascum as farside22
So let's get this straight. I said something to the effect of "Townies don't do X."
Not only is it incredibly clear what I meant (that scum do X - and I can't think of any possible other meaning) but furthermore you have now also suitably demonstrated that you knew what I meant in the first place. Again, why ask a question you know the answer to?