2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Never said it wasn't. I agree that Some One is being horribly obviously scummy with poor play and reasoning. Which is why Tilde must die first. We have enough of a case against Some One. But as I said, Tilde is a major threat.
Some One is horribly scummy.
But you want Tilde to die first, who no one but you finds scummy.
Why not just lynch the obvious scum and work from there?
So you're handwaving my case on Tilde as meta and baseless speculation? As I've said many times before, my reads are NEVER baseless. You may disagree with them, I may not give much in the way of reasoning for them, but they are NEVER baseless. And why should I give my reasoning when you're just going to handwave it away? I'm not blowing my trumpet when I "just so happen to be right". I'm right for a reason, and accepting this as fact will make this game a town win all that much faster. I will push on Tilde until he is lynched. Believe that.
Congrats.
Keep pushing a lynch that's not going to happen because you actually need other people to lynch someone, unless you have zindabad's role in Asphodel Meadows.
Some One is horribly scummy.
But you want Tilde to die first, who no one but you finds scummy.
Why not just lynch the obvious scum and work from there?
If the scum team has members like Some One, why should we give them more resourceful and experienced players, like Tilde, to make better nightkill decisions with?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like I said, I messed up with one stupid thing like I did in a game before. Whatever, ya got me.
Anyway, when things happen to me...things happen to others.
Three things will happen on my lynch (2 do not need to be made public because I know what I'm doing). 1 Needs to be discussed - and that's the fact that another player must die with me.
I don't have a choice because if I do not make these decisions, they will happen randomly.
Different things that don't really need to be discussed would happen if instead of being lynched I was NKed, for example.
So let's get a second lynch. My obv. target is iLord because I'm vengeful and vindictive and feel the case he has against me is utter garbage and it seems like it's coming from a scum mindset. Maybe I'm just biased?
I consider GD and Iso to be misguided townies. Likewise Gigas is just lurking in plain sight - going with whatever seems popular at the time, and it's abundantly obvious.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The three games I remember with Tilde are Hats Mafia, Points Mafia, and Science Mafia. I don't remember agreeing with many things he said in any of them, and although he was scum in both Points and Science, he was town in Hats.
Actually, we both should probably look back at Tilde's town games, especially since my memory of Hats is hazy. How would an example of Tilde tunnel visioning a player in a manner similar to this game as town affect your read of him?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like I said, I messed up with one stupid thing like I did in a game before. Whatever, ya got me.
Anyway, when things happen to me...things happen to others.
Three things will happen on my lynch (2 do not need to be made public because I know what I'm doing). 1 Needs to be discussed - and that's the fact that another player must die with me.
I don't have a choice because if I do not make these decisions, they will happen randomly.
Different things that don't really need to be discussed would happen if instead of being lynched I was NKed, for example.
So let's get a second lynch. My obv. target is iLord because I'm vengeful and vindictive and feel the case he has against me is utter garbage and it seems like it's coming from a scum mindset. Maybe I'm just biased?
I consider GD and Iso to be misguided townies. Likewise Gigas is just lurking in plain sight - going with whatever seems popular at the time, and it's abundantly obvious.
If this isn't a bluff, it's a ridiculous ability to give to scum. It's concerning because it sounds too random for simple fabrication. I want a full claim to evaluate its legitimacy.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I mean, I don't doubt that Tilde's a paranoid, crazy player.
But I wouldn't put it past him to be that way as scum, either, you see what I'm saying?
Yeah, I'll see if I can find out more about what distinguishes his town and scum play.
I was about to type something about Tilde in Science, but I actually think I'm confusing him with Nom Anor. And a quick check reveals that I was indeed being delusional.
So yeah, I'm going to do a little bit more research.
If this isn't a bluff, it's a ridiculous ability to give to scum. It's concerning because it sounds too random for simple fabrication. I want a full claim to evaluate its legitimacy.
I'd like others to chime in because a full-claim that entails what would happen to the other 2 players upon my lynch as well as what would happen to other player(s) upon my NK, for example, is not information that should be made public because it is things the scum do not need to know.
I would be much happier to be lynched today than to say what's going to happen when I get lynched and be lynched anyway.
I'd like others to chime in because a full-claim that entails what would happen to the other 2 players upon my lynch as well as what would happen to other player(s) upon my NK, for example, is not information that should be made public because it is things the scum do not need to know.
I would be much happier to be lynched today than to say what's going to happen when I get lynched and be lynched anyway.
I'd weigh the possibility of avoiding a possible mislynch greater than revealing that tidbit of information.
Although now that I think about it, it might be better for you to stay quiet. If you're telling the truth, lynching you effectively gives the town an extra lynch. For example, if we would lynch PLAYER1 instead, we could just have you "target" him with your ability. If your'e scum, town gets a correct lynch. If you're town, we still get to kill PLAYER1 while removing you from the equation.
Yeah, I'll see if I can find out more about what distinguishes his town and scum play.
I was about to type something about Tilde in Science, but I actually think I'm confusing him with Nom Anor. And a quick check reveals that I was indeed being delusional.
So yeah, I'm going to do a little bit more research.
Just, please do me a favor.
Explain why you're so willing to handwave my explanation for Tilde as scum with meta if you don't even know his meta.
I'd like others to chime in because a full-claim that entails what would happen to the other 2 players upon my lynch as well as what would happen to other player(s) upon my NK, for example, is not information that should be made public because it is things the scum do not need to know.
I would be much happier to be lynched today than to say what's going to happen when I get lynched and be lynched anyway.
Are you claiming to be a Vengeful Townie? Or are you a Bomb/Saint?
Basically, do you kill the hammerer, someone on your wagon, or anyone in the game? Or would you rather not tell?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Explain why you're so willing to handwave my explanation for Tilde as scum with meta if you don't even know his meta.
Please and thank you.
I'm not acquainted with differences between his scum and town behavior. Hence, I can only conclude that behavior you have perceived as malicious is consistent with his general behavior. I'm not hand-waving it in any traditional sense - your case is based on your perception of ill-intent and I'm not receiving the same impression.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not acquainted with differences between his scum and town behavior. Hence, I can only conclude that behavior you have perceived as malicious is consistent with his general behavior. I'm not hand-waving it in any traditional sense - your case is based on your perception of ill-intent and I'm not receiving the same impression.
Fair. Like I said, it's easier to detect malicious intent when it's directed towards oneself. I'm about to do some reading to address the Some One issue. I shall return.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh dear. Tilde do you have a list of games you've been in anywhere?
<scans through the lists>
Kung Fu - Town Mason turned Neutral Revenge Killer
1001 Nights - Mafia daytalk enabler
Hats - Town Vig
Points - Mafia
FF 7 - Mafia Team 1 GF
Doomsday - Vanilla Town
Manga - Mafia Goon edited into Mafia Strongman
ID Fleet - Neutral Survivor w/ 1-shot daykill
OOTS - Town Rogue
Symbiote - Town JoaT
Evangelion - Town Cop
DOHA - Town Traitor turned Mafia Bodyguard
Persona - Town Bus Driver
Fiasco - Town Sequesterer
ASoF&I - Town Daenarys' faction (Functionally vanilla)
24 Salvation Code - Town Vig
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Like I said, I messed up with one stupid thing like I did in a game before. Whatever, ya got me.
Anyway, when things happen to me...things happen to others.
Three things will happen on my lynch (2 do not need to be made public because I know what I'm doing). 1 Needs to be discussed - and that's the fact that another player must die with me.
I don't have a choice because if I do not make these decisions, they will happen randomly.
Different things that don't really need to be discussed would happen if instead of being lynched I was NKed, for example.
So let's get a second lynch. My obv. target is iLord because I'm vengeful and vindictive and feel the case he has against me is utter garbage and it seems like it's coming from a scum mindset. Maybe I'm just biased?
I really don't trust you to make these hidden decisions. Not least because I think you're scum and trusting scum is obviously a bad idea, but also because you've just expressed an irrational desire to kill iLord out of spite. This non-productive line of thought does not instil confidence in your ability to make unilateral pro-town decisions.
If this isn't a bluff, it's a ridiculous ability to give to scum. It's concerning because it sounds too random for simple fabrication. I want a full claim to evaluate its legitimacy.
I think that this kind of mod gaming is especially silly in a game based off of things which would be impossible in an ordinary game of Mafia.
Quote from iLord »
In your opinion, how can you distinguish scum and town Tilde?
My initial thought would be to vig him - it rather neatly solves the problem, and is a good way to deal with players who are difficult to read.
Apart from that, your method seems solid and looking at Tilde's interactions with known scum in the later game should also provide a read.
I really don't trust you to make these hidden decisions. Not least because I think you're scum and trusting scum is obviously a bad idea, but also because you've just expressed an irrational desire to kill iLord out of spite. This non-productive line of thought does not instil confidence in your ability to make unilateral pro-town decisions.
What I do to people under the covers is none of your business.
You're more than welcome to propose a target. I know that I am town and therefore wholeheartedly disagree with the case as it is presented against me. You must understand that I obviously cannot accept his logic that townies cannot possibly be careless.
No one has even looked at Small Town. If he was town - perhaps if you were town and interested in the case against me - you guys would would be pursuing scum with an open mind and at least consider looking at that game.
But no, you two, who seem to be leading the action, don't really care. You just want to see me dead. How townie is that?
I think that this kind of mod gaming is especially silly in a game based off of things which would be impossible in an ordinary game of Mafia.
It's just such terrible design on scum. The mod should offer rewards for correct lynches, not senseless punishments. Ged reviewed this game, so I have faith in the quality of the setup, and I can't imagine him letting something like that through.
The recent trend in game setups, however, reflect your concern. Mods have been attempting to make role analysis a weaker and weaker tool. Given the current climate, I am very doubtful that Seppel would have a role so unabashedly town, hence my suspicion that Some One is merely fabricating a role in a last ditch effort. Tempering this suspicion is the fact that role he claimed seemed to be more convoluted than I would have expected from a false-claim. It's difficult to analyze Some One's claim without more information on his role.
But it discounts your entire point that TOWN CANNOT POSSIBLY DO IT.
I'VE DONE IT.
So your argument is then, "TOWN MORE LIKELY THAN NOT DON'T DO IT."
And to that I say, BULL.
Scum would typically be MORE careful about contradicting themselves because they KNOW they don't have a genuine viewpoint.
So then your argument becomes, "You're in the minority of careless scum." It's the minority because it's a given scum are not usually found by identifying blatantly contradicting viewpoints.
To that I say, "How do you differentiate it from careless town?"
But it discounts your entire point that TOWN CANNOT POSSIBLY DO IT.
I'VE DONE IT.
So your argument is then, "TOWN MORE LIKELY THAN NOT DON'T DO IT."
And to that I say, BULL.
Scum would typically be MORE careful about contradicting themselves because they KNOW they don't have a genuine viewpoint.
So then your argument becomes, "You're in the minority of careless scum." It's the minority because it's a given scum are not usually found by identifying blatantly contradicting viewpoints.
To that I say, "How do you differentiate it from careless town?"
Count the number of times you've made up reads as scum (every game as scum) to the times you've made up reads as town (the one example you've cited). In the vast majority of cases, if you're lying about your reads, you're scum.
Me - "And why are scum more likely to be blatantly careless, as in the fashion that occurred here?"
Not Me - "Because they don't have genuine viewpoints."
"And they're trying to fit in?"
"Yeah."
"So they need to make their viewpoints sound genuine?"
"Yes."
"So why would they make a 180?"
"Because they forgot their viewpoint. They didn't have one."
"But I thought they were trying to fit in?"
"Not always, sometimes they screw up. They legitimately got caught red handed."
"Can't town do it?"
"Yes"
"So how is it different?"
"Because townies have view points."
"But can't town make mistakes?"
"Sure, yeah, you did it before."
"Why isn't that the case, here?"
"Less likely."
"Why?"
"Because I think you just screwed up. As scum."
"Isn't this rare to happen to scum? Blatantly 180ing?"
"Yeah."
"So either way I'm in the minority of something careless?"
"Yeah."
"So we need an answer to the question why it's scum > town in order to break this circle?"
"Yeah, this can go on forever. Did you ever get caught blatantly 180ing as scum? - in the course of a few posts for no reason."
"No. Did you?"
"No."
"So why is it more likely to be scum in this situation again?"
"Hmm..."
I'm unsure why you began talking to yourself instead of responding to my point. No one but yourself has expressed half the arguments you've placed in quotes.
So if I find half those arguments expressed by others in this thread I can call you out for lying and have you lynched?
You're welcome to try what you will. I'm still interested on why you're ignoring my logic. For your reference:
Quote from iLord »
Count the number of times you've made up reads as scum (every game as scum) to the times you've made up reads as town (the one example you've cited). In the vast majority of cases, if you're lying about your reads, you're scum.
You're welcome to try what you will. I'm still interested on why you're ignoring my logic. For your reference:
Cool, cool.
I think I answered that in the conversation I had with myself.
The # of times I have been scum outnumbers the # of times I've been careless town.
But how does the number of times scum get caught blatantly 180ing in the course of a few posts for no reason compare to the number of times scum get caught for anything else? It's not like I even cared enough to try to be subtle about it.
I think I answered that in the conversation I had with myself.
The # of times I have been scum outnumbers the # of times I've been careless town.
But how does the number of times scum get caught blatantly 180ing in the course of a few posts for no reason compare to the number of times scum get caught for anything else? It's not like I even cared enough to try to be subtle about it.
I don't see how the last point is relevant.
I mention that you make up reads far more often as scum than town to demonstrate that your example of Smalltown has very little weight.
The fact that scum have to lie about their reads more often than town is a basic tenet of mafia. The biggest detectable difference between scum and town mentality is that the former cannot generate genuine opinions because they are already aware of the identity of all of the mafia. We catch scum using this by demonstrating their reads are not genuine. If you'll sink as low in your desperation so as to challenge this basic principle, then I'll have no more words to trade with you.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You're missing the point. Wouldn't scum be pointed in making their actions more concealed and less obvious?
What if Some One intentionally ran himself up so as to be forced to claim?
WIFOM, of course.
But let me impart into you a conversation I had with Artifice 101 about gambits somewhat recently.
I mentioned that scum gambits were the tricky ones; more difficult to detect, and more difficult to find the motives behind. It was usually the town ones you could find easily, as scum don't USUALLY do stupid **** out in the open.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You're missing the point. Wouldn't scum be pointed in making their actions more concealed and less obvious?
Scum are generally very careful. When they screw up and are caught in a contradiction, the consequences are often catastrophic. But I still cannot see how this relates?
Quote from Iso »
What if Some One intentionally ran himself up so as to be forced to claim?
WIFOM, of course.
This sounds very Tilde-esque. That is to say, Occam's Razor and common sense weakens its likelihood considerably.
Quote from Iso »
But let me impart into you a conversation I had with Artifice 101 about gambits somewhat recently.
I mentioned that scum gambits were the tricky ones; more difficult to detect, and more difficult to find the motives behind. It was usually the town ones you could find easily, as scum don't USUALLY do stupid **** out in the open.
So what's to say this wasn't the case here?
How did we come to start talking about gambits? Since Some One himself has admitted this to be a mistake, I think we can safely assume that it wasn't intentional.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not you, not you at all.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But you want Tilde to die first, who no one but you finds scummy.
Why not just lynch the obvious scum and work from there?
Congrats.
Keep pushing a lynch that's not going to happen because you actually need other people to lynch someone, unless you have zindabad's role in Asphodel Meadows.
Wait. You're admitting to lying...about making reads on people? Vote Some One.
That's L-2.
I'll bring it up again if/when I'm alive to see Iso's ability.
If the scum team has members like Some One, why should we give them more resourceful and experienced players, like Tilde, to make better nightkill decisions with?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway, when things happen to me...things happen to others.
Three things will happen on my lynch (2 do not need to be made public because I know what I'm doing). 1 Needs to be discussed - and that's the fact that another player must die with me.
I don't have a choice because if I do not make these decisions, they will happen randomly.
Different things that don't really need to be discussed would happen if instead of being lynched I was NKed, for example.
So let's get a second lynch. My obv. target is iLord because I'm vengeful and vindictive and feel the case he has against me is utter garbage and it seems like it's coming from a scum mindset. Maybe I'm just biased?
I consider GD and Iso to be misguided townies. Likewise Gigas is just lurking in plain sight - going with whatever seems popular at the time, and it's abundantly obvious.
So if I'm lynched, 2 people will have something happen & 1 will die.
They will know what has happened to them, and I'm not making that public.
But I'm sure you could have figured that out.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The three games I remember with Tilde are Hats Mafia, Points Mafia, and Science Mafia. I don't remember agreeing with many things he said in any of them, and although he was scum in both Points and Science, he was town in Hats.
Actually, we both should probably look back at Tilde's town games, especially since my memory of Hats is hazy. How would an example of Tilde tunnel visioning a player in a manner similar to this game as town affect your read of him?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
It wouldn't. But if you'd like, I can take another look at Hats, Points, and Science (which I haven't read of the three).
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If this isn't a bluff, it's a ridiculous ability to give to scum. It's concerning because it sounds too random for simple fabrication. I want a full claim to evaluate its legitimacy.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Don't worry about it - I'll scan through his town games later to see if I can find a good example of what Eco/WoD have been talking about.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
But I wouldn't put it past him to be that way as scum, either, you see what I'm saying?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I'll see if I can find out more about what distinguishes his town and scum play.
I was about to type something about Tilde in Science, but I actually think I'm confusing him with Nom Anor. And a quick check reveals that I was indeed being delusional.
So yeah, I'm going to do a little bit more research.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I'd like others to chime in because a full-claim that entails what would happen to the other 2 players upon my lynch as well as what would happen to other player(s) upon my NK, for example, is not information that should be made public because it is things the scum do not need to know.
I would be much happier to be lynched today than to say what's going to happen when I get lynched and be lynched anyway.
I'd weigh the possibility of avoiding a possible mislynch greater than revealing that tidbit of information.
Although now that I think about it, it might be better for you to stay quiet. If you're telling the truth, lynching you effectively gives the town an extra lynch. For example, if we would lynch PLAYER1 instead, we could just have you "target" him with your ability. If your'e scum, town gets a correct lynch. If you're town, we still get to kill PLAYER1 while removing you from the equation.
@Iso: What do you think about this?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Just, please do me a favor.
Explain why you're so willing to handwave my explanation for Tilde as scum with meta if you don't even know his meta.
Please and thank you.
Are you claiming to be a Vengeful Townie? Or are you a Bomb/Saint?
Basically, do you kill the hammerer, someone on your wagon, or anyone in the game? Or would you rather not tell?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
However, doing it this way has spawned a great discussion & as long as the town convinces me, I'm happy to abide.
I'm not acquainted with differences between his scum and town behavior. Hence, I can only conclude that behavior you have perceived as malicious is consistent with his general behavior. I'm not hand-waving it in any traditional sense - your case is based on your perception of ill-intent and I'm not receiving the same impression.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I need to do a lot of reading not in this game. I'll return with input on other matters, but until then, let's hold off on Some One's lynch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fair. Like I said, it's easier to detect malicious intent when it's directed towards oneself. I'm about to do some reading to address the Some One issue. I shall return.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
<scans through the lists>
Kung Fu - Town Mason turned Neutral Revenge Killer
1001 Nights - Mafia daytalk enabler
Hats - Town Vig
Points - Mafia
FF 7 - Mafia Team 1 GF
Doomsday - Vanilla Town
Manga - Mafia Goon edited into Mafia Strongman
ID Fleet - Neutral Survivor w/ 1-shot daykill
OOTS - Town Rogue
Symbiote - Town JoaT
Evangelion - Town Cop
DOHA - Town Traitor turned Mafia Bodyguard
Persona - Town Bus Driver
Fiasco - Town Sequesterer
ASoF&I - Town Daenarys' faction (Functionally vanilla)
24 Salvation Code - Town Vig
I think that's most of them
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Is anyone a character from another game of Mafia?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I really don't trust you to make these hidden decisions. Not least because I think you're scum and trusting scum is obviously a bad idea, but also because you've just expressed an irrational desire to kill iLord out of spite. This non-productive line of thought does not instil confidence in your ability to make unilateral pro-town decisions.
I think that this kind of mod gaming is especially silly in a game based off of things which would be impossible in an ordinary game of Mafia.
My initial thought would be to vig him - it rather neatly solves the problem, and is a good way to deal with players who are difficult to read.
Apart from that, your method seems solid and looking at Tilde's interactions with known scum in the later game should also provide a read.
What I do to people under the covers is none of your business.
You're more than welcome to propose a target. I know that I am town and therefore wholeheartedly disagree with the case as it is presented against me. You must understand that I obviously cannot accept his logic that townies cannot possibly be careless.
No one has even looked at Small Town. If he was town - perhaps if you were town and interested in the case against me - you guys would would be pursuing scum with an open mind and at least consider looking at that game.
But no, you two, who seem to be leading the action, don't really care. You just want to see me dead. How townie is that?
*sarcasm*
It's just such terrible design on scum. The mod should offer rewards for correct lynches, not senseless punishments. Ged reviewed this game, so I have faith in the quality of the setup, and I can't imagine him letting something like that through.
The recent trend in game setups, however, reflect your concern. Mods have been attempting to make role analysis a weaker and weaker tool. Given the current climate, I am very doubtful that Seppel would have a role so unabashedly town, hence my suspicion that Some One is merely fabricating a role in a last ditch effort. Tempering this suspicion is the fact that role he claimed seemed to be more convoluted than I would have expected from a false-claim. It's difficult to analyze Some One's claim without more information on his role.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
You were lying about your reads. Even if you have one game where you did so as town, you no doubt have many more where you did so as scum.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
I'VE DONE IT.
So your argument is then, "TOWN MORE LIKELY THAN NOT DON'T DO IT."
And to that I say, BULL.
Scum would typically be MORE careful about contradicting themselves because they KNOW they don't have a genuine viewpoint.
So then your argument becomes, "You're in the minority of careless scum." It's the minority because it's a given scum are not usually found by identifying blatantly contradicting viewpoints.
To that I say, "How do you differentiate it from careless town?"
Count the number of times you've made up reads as scum (every game as scum) to the times you've made up reads as town (the one example you've cited). In the vast majority of cases, if you're lying about your reads, you're scum.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Not Me - "Because they don't have genuine viewpoints."
"And they're trying to fit in?"
"Yeah."
"So they need to make their viewpoints sound genuine?"
"Yes."
"So why would they make a 180?"
"Because they forgot their viewpoint. They didn't have one."
"But I thought they were trying to fit in?"
"Not always, sometimes they screw up. They legitimately got caught red handed."
"Can't town do it?"
"Yes"
"So how is it different?"
"Because townies have view points."
"But can't town make mistakes?"
"Sure, yeah, you did it before."
"Why isn't that the case, here?"
"Less likely."
"Why?"
"Because I think you just screwed up. As scum."
"Isn't this rare to happen to scum? Blatantly 180ing?"
"Yeah."
"So either way I'm in the minority of something careless?"
"Yeah."
"So we need an answer to the question why it's scum > town in order to break this circle?"
"Yeah, this can go on forever. Did you ever get caught blatantly 180ing as scum? - in the course of a few posts for no reason."
"No. Did you?"
"No."
"So why is it more likely to be scum in this situation again?"
"Hmm..."
I'm unsure why you began talking to yourself instead of responding to my point. No one but yourself has expressed half the arguments you've placed in quotes.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Too many contradictions.
So who is your nominee to die?
You're welcome to try what you will. I'm still interested on why you're ignoring my logic. For your reference:
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Cool, cool.
I think I answered that in the conversation I had with myself.
The # of times I have been scum outnumbers the # of times I've been careless town.
But how does the number of times scum get caught blatantly 180ing in the course of a few posts for no reason compare to the number of times scum get caught for anything else? It's not like I even cared enough to try to be subtle about it.
I don't see how the last point is relevant.
I mention that you make up reads far more often as scum than town to demonstrate that your example of Smalltown has very little weight.
The fact that scum have to lie about their reads more often than town is a basic tenet of mafia. The biggest detectable difference between scum and town mentality is that the former cannot generate genuine opinions because they are already aware of the identity of all of the mafia. We catch scum using this by demonstrating their reads are not genuine. If you'll sink as low in your desperation so as to challenge this basic principle, then I'll have no more words to trade with you.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
If you agree with it, then you must agree that, by it's logic, it is incredibly likely that you are scum.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Town screwups are easier to see. Scum screwups are more difficult because the scum are typically extra cautious.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How is that relevant? We've already found the screwup, so the difficulty of doing so is irrelevant, is it not?
My Custom Set: Solescurio
What if Some One intentionally ran himself up so as to be forced to claim?
WIFOM, of course.
But let me impart into you a conversation I had with Artifice 101 about gambits somewhat recently.
I mentioned that scum gambits were the tricky ones; more difficult to detect, and more difficult to find the motives behind. It was usually the town ones you could find easily, as scum don't USUALLY do stupid **** out in the open.
So what's to say this wasn't the case here?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Scum are generally very careful. When they screw up and are caught in a contradiction, the consequences are often catastrophic. But I still cannot see how this relates?
This sounds very Tilde-esque. That is to say, Occam's Razor and common sense weakens its likelihood considerably.
How did we come to start talking about gambits? Since Some One himself has admitted this to be a mistake, I think we can safely assume that it wasn't intentional.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Would scum have come clean after being caught?
Would scum have been so painfully obviously contradictory?
If the answers are more than 50% likely to be yes, then I have no other points to bring up until I finish my reading.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player