First of all, the reason I voted you in the first place was partially to get Dagger off my back about the voting thing, as I feel he would have continued to pursue it.
Secondly, because I had it in my head for some reason that you could be faking, but as I pointed out earlier, that theory was WAY too complex for what mafia really seems to be.
I admitted I was wrong, my bad.
Also: Why is it so suspicious to ask for PBPA's? I wanted to see who thought who was scum and why. Maybe someone has a better case against some people than I do.
So it's not a good enough reason to believe somebody is scumhunting based on their playstyle?
Like I said before: The entire town is scumhunting, and the scum are trying to make it look like they are. It's the nature of the beast.
Actually, some players are being far less useful at this point than Doc has been with just his two posts. So obviously SOMEONE is blending in a little better than you give them credit for.
Oh I know someone's blending in better than I had originally thought. I just need to figure out who that is.
Then you're entitled to that opinion. Let me base my reads on my observations. Just because we don't see the same things doesn't make either of us more or less correct.
Fair enough.
Wasn't putting words into other people's mouths. I was stating that I felt that as a result of the town viewing me as scummy for WIFOM reasons, there was more pressure on me to post a list than most other players. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Oh, ok. I thought you were referencing me asking for it, not factors outside of that.
Quote from The_Doctor »
"The following players are not going to both be scum: loran and Iso (for the reason that no scum is going to bus their buddy this hard with the exception of Seppel when he forgots his team),
This is a fairly good point, actually. That scenario is very unlikely.
Iso and Tanarin (there is no way that the game would have enough steam to get 2 of 3 scum wagoned early day 1)."
It's possible that one is scum, and the other wagon was to take pressure off of the other. I'm going to take a closer look at those wagons real soon, methinks.
"Does the fact that he's posting in all smilies make him more likely to be town or scum? Why? How is your voting him going to alieviate any of the mystery?"
I would say it's a null tell. I was trying to get him to post more, so that we could maybe find other tells.
Aside: Should we prod Roja? He's been gone for about 2 days now.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, I just wanted to see what you had to say about it. But being that we don't know if you're scum or not, I don't think it's the best of ideas to intentionally activate anyone's amnesia condition yet. The other thing I'm worried about is, if we do indeed lose our abilities once our memory trigger is activated, how do we know our new ability isn't going to be detrimental to the town? That's why I'm currently against your idea of a moniker claim. Maybe later on if we feel it could net an advantage against the scum, IF you've been cleared by then. Otherwise, I'm not going to advocate blindly activating something that could kill us townies off, whether intentional or accidental.
There's a lot of postulation in this post. You can see that he's thinking things through. Now it's true that scum can do that, too, but this reads completely genuine to me.
There is a difference between cautiousness/survival instinct and scumminess, but think what you will. Anyway, where's The_Doctor and Silent Prophet?
He rebuffs the one vote he has on him. Some say this is a scumtell, but it's not. Town does this, too. And deflection is a null tell on it's own, too, as Loran pointed out later. Curiosity can also equal deflection depending on one's interpretation.
So it's not within our best interests to mistake one for the other.
Tanarin stated specifically that his ability was activated through something to do with monikers. Tanarin is ALSO talking about intentionally activating people. You're not paying attention and not looking at all of the possible sides of this, and it feels like you're trying to be disagreeable then suddenly agreeable within the same post. Something about your posts isn't sitting right with me. IGMEOY.
This post, however, I do not see why Loran thinks he's scum from this. I see more of the postulation, the internal debating, to figure the game out, and scumhunting.
"You do realize that the game had only been running for a few hours at this point and that it was the weekend, correct? Do you care to explain why when loran's gaze veers in on you, your first reaction is to ask where two other players are?
Vote: Iso"
Horrible vote. Why couldn't you just ask the question? Why was the vote necessary here, especially since he had already told us he would be gone for the night?
I'm irritated that both Tanarin and Doctor are voting Iso for a null tell rather than a scum tell.
95% of supposed deflections are not deflections, even if the person is scum, but genuine curiosity. (And no I don't mean to de-rail my own wagon here, but this is just stupid). Iso's first reaction isn't to deflect attention, but to incorrectly try and answer why I was voting him.
You're irritated? You don't find anything else wrong with it?
Iso Is leaning scum and I like the wagon, I just really don't like dagger's vote. Feels more like he just wants on the wagon then anything else.
Yeah, this is why Reya got the FoS from me. He's pushing the wagon without even voting. Add the weak attempt to bag on Dagger, and it's a deserved FoS.
If you read what I have written I am saying the same thing, apart from it has made me a bit suspicious of him. Regardless I want him to claim why he doesn't want a trigger claim so badly. Honestly I don't want to accidentally trigger something that is bad.
But yes, I don't want to get him so close to a lynch either
Has a strong hate towards claiming triggers when it might not be a bad idea. It leaves me thinking he might not have a trigger and he is just scum. But like I said, I don't fully think he is yet.
Emphasis mine. You've got yourself planted on that fence so hard, I can't tell where it ends and you begin. In fact, all 3 of thoses posts have fence-sitting in them. This all reads as you wanting to push the wagon without voting, but appear as though you are not doing precisely that.
I never said there wouldn't be a benefit to gain from triggering. But to suggest that all triggered abilities are going to help the town is preposterous, as it would suggest that there is no scum, and being that we are playing Mafia, well...that is simply not the case. More explained in response to your next quote.
That's a very narrow way to look at it. This is what I'm trying to get across: If scum knows town handicaps, which are not necessarily restricted to voting handicaps (which, to suggest, would be more narrow thinking), then being that they are scum and for the most part invisible to the rest of us until something happens to out one of them, it is HIGHLY detrimental to town to reveal their handicaps. Why wouldn't scum leave people alive who have a bigger handicap, and why would they leave people alive who pose more of a threat to them role-wise? Your entire argument in favor of this seems like a poorly thought-out scum defense of an attempt to get a feel for who the weaker players.
I feel like that's already been sufficiently answered. You're in favor of something that gives scum too much information, far too zealously. You also jumped on my wagon for a piss-poor reason, which I might add, was VERY opportunistic. Shame on all of you for taking advantage of the fact that I was unable to post at that time.
You just gave scum far too much information about you. Say no more.
Completely genuine. I don't know what Loran's talking about anymore with him.
I second this sentiment, I would very much like to know HOW I am scummy, as you don't seem to be providing anything but "you are scummy, it is self-evident". Normally, I'd wait for someone else to second kill-joy's request for your verification, but it's just annoying at this point. So please, elaborate.
Ok, Loran. Let's go over this. You're saying that the purple part and the green part don't match, right? So that makes you think he's pulling this explanation out of his ass?
Yeah, I considered that. I thought it might have been due to their previous knowledge of each other for lulz. But there's a lot you can pick up on in the RVS, you just have to watch for nulltells.
Like, seriously, I can't even fathom where Loran's coming from. Luckily for him, I could never see where he was coming from when he went after me in Superhero and South Park.
Yep, these are totally town thoughts - an IGMEOY and an actual fish. Note also that the post on the Doctor makes no sense here...he hasn't SAID anything, and yet he's obvious town.
How is an IGMEOY a scum post?
And fishing, in and of itself, is not a scumtell.
no.
No.
NO.
It's not. I've seen way too many townies do it just because they're trying to figure the game out and they don't think about it.
You realize you're not holding yourself to the standards you hold other players? I posted twice which somehow pegged me as scum in your eyes, yet The_Doctor has posted twice and it shouldn't be apparent to me that The_Doctor is town? Double standards, hypocrisy, starting a wagon, ridiculous accusations...come on, now I have to spell things out for people? And I was so enjoying being cryptic like my idol loran16, here.
The frustration is genuine. Add that to the opinion that he is town, and this is good town frustration. Look how he spells out the things Loran's doing that's pissing him off?
Oh, and something you should know, as it's coming up: Iso is NATURALLY snarky and sarcastic. He starts to show it in this post, with calling Loran his idol.
(And yes I'm amused that one of them involves a vote on you, yourself. But it fits my read of you here: you just wanted to put something on every player, so you made **** up. Good Job.)
So, you're posturing that he just made the list up, and put one of the lurkier players as obvtown, knowing that same person was one of the ones voting for him? Why on Earth would any scum ever do that? That would be bound to draw all kinds of attention that scum never want. He may not have a lot of forum-based experience with mafia, but the guy knows what he's doing, loran.
What case? You've yet to present a case or indicate scumminess. You've posted that you think i'm quite off on my read of you. That's not necessarily scummy, or if it is you've not indicated why.
Bolded part is noted of course.
How are you going to go off on him for not presenting a case when, for most of the game, yours on him was "Those posts are scummy. No, really, they are. But I'm not going to tell you how."?
Not going to address the narcissism because that's a subjective matter. ;p
Mhm
The case I just presented, congratulations, you just showed that you're not actually reading my posts all the way through and clearly just want to lynch me. Which is really scummy. You're off on your read of me because I am town, so to propagate such actions as you have been doing is indicative of a scum mindset despite the fact that you are basing it on nothing, at least, it's nothing according to your interpretation on my read of The_Doctor, who is clearly scumhunting. Self-contradiction. You're tripping all over yourself. You're trying to get a speedlynch. You're accusing me of putting things on other players. You're trying your damndest to paint me as scum and when you're the only one who seems to see it, well, that's telling. I feel I've already indicated all of this in my previous posts, however. You're just asking me to repeat myself, which is anti-productive, and if I recall, you were the one complaining about my lack of productivity. Who is that spurred by, I wonder? Oh gee, maybe loran16's ineptitude at scumhunting.
tl;dr: Anyone who makes so much of an effort against me when I know I'm town and presented the facts already is scum in my eyes.
It's so obvious to me. How can you people not see this?
No. The only thing wrong with that statement is the mind-set that person attacking town = scum. But it's still a natural response to suspect those suspecting you. I go through this ALL THE TIME.
All of your questions have been answered in my previous posts, I recommend you re-read them because I already know what I've said. I suggest you actually look over what I said so that you will know what I've said, as well, and then you wouldn't have so many questions.
As for the votes on me, ooh. Votes. From people who were jumping on an opportunistic bandwagon led by none other than you, the individual who will apparently not hesitate to part the Red Sea to attempt to paint me scummily. "Oh, Iso likes Five Guys, but I prefer Burger King. So he must be scummy because Whoppers cost less than a burger at Five Guys." Seriously. This is what your arguments feel like. I was asked to post my initial impressions of people thus far, so I did. I got 5 hours of sleep, I had work from 7 last night to 7 in the morning last night, so pardon me if my only retained cognitive abilities at this time are dismantling your arguments and my second-nature biting sarcasm. I posted why I feel The_Doctor is town. Your inability to read is giving me a headache. Stop asking me to post stuff I've already posted.
I stated very clearly that The_Doctor is obviously scumhunting. Is it not evident that through his piercing questions, he is attempting to get a better read on players, thus, scumhunting?
What else do I need to hold your hand through to explain to you? I apologize if I'm coming off as rude, but I'm sleep-deprived, my headache has been spurred by you, and I don't like repeating myself to someone who is very apparently not listening, especially when they are being very accusatory as you are being.
God, can I be done with this already? All he's showing is snark and frustration. This reads as very town to me, not because of how he's reacting, but because I already thought he was town, and I can see these reactions from a townie.
Oh, hey, I can. (I had other quotes which you'll see in the next post.)
Yeah, Iso's town. And this wagon still sucks, as I said it did when I first posted.
Also, this is why Seppel is town, and why, by transitive property of Geometry, Iso is town.
Also: Why is it so suspicious to ask for PBPA's? I wanted to see who thought who was scum and why. Maybe someone has a better case against some people than I do.
What rush? You're supposed to be reading the game every day, especially when you post as much as you do. It's kind of depressing otherwise.
(Also I'm not a patient man).
Just because I read the game every day doesn't mean I'm going to post a ****-ton of information. This is the info gathering stage. I'm here for the ride, man.
Aside, what do you mean what rush? Seriously, I had already told you THREE TIMES that I would give you what you wanted today. Yet you still kept pushing for it. Did you think I was talking out of my ass?
What the heck do you mean by the bolded portion if you're not referencing an outside game?
They're brothers, Loran. That wasn't a joke. No one here knows Iso better than Seppel and vice versa.
And seriously, this is not a defense. This is a "Well i know him, and Seppel knows him, so trust us, he's town!" It doesn't GIVE us anything other than your word with nothing behind it.
No, it's Guy A is town. Guy A has a lot of experience with Guy B and says Guy B is town. So, Guy B is town.
Id point out also that Iso has played in one game that is still ongoing with his alignment still uncertain.......so you can't talk about it anyhow to HELP US (aka Null Tell).
(This bares especially true for Manders, who's in that game, and Seppel, who's the damn mod.)
Dangerous this line of reasoning is, for reasons that are not good for either this or that mafia game.
I do not appreciate what you are insinuating. Good day, sir.
He cares more about the joke with Seppel than making sense in his post. Why? Buddying to Seppel, cause he knows he's town, and he feels it's obvious to the game now.
To tell you the truth, I will be more happy to make a list when certain people post more, right now I am trying to figure out whats up with The_Doctor, Silent_Prophet and Roja.
Okay. So Tanarin's or Iso's wagon is more valid? A faster or slower wagon is more valid? A wagon that reached L-2 or one that doesn't is more valid?
Please understand this.
The speed of the wagon was not and is not the deciding factor in anything. As made obvious by the fact that I AM VOTING FOR HIM AND DID SO HOURS (DAYS NOW) AGO.
I merely pointed it out.
So, to answer your question, neither of those is more valid because you can't have a wagon to study the speed of if there weren't votes. Votes usually have reason. You have to analyze the reasons for the wagons. The reasons for Iso's wagon are crap. A bunch of null tells that some people have decided are from scum and some have decided are from town. It's a stupid wagon.
Tanarin's wagon, however, came about mainly from his own vote on the Iso wagon. It was, no hyperbole, the scummiest vote I've ever seen in my life.
Since you brought up those issues and all to the extent of a research, I would like to confirm with you again whether you are dismissing one wagon over another because of those exact reasons.
Nope.
He was posting like how a basic scum would, entirely self-conscious, using moderating words in the two posts highlighted. I judged that it's likely Iso was posting from a scum mindset. That was based on my own experience. And it was voted via my own vote. I bore no hold over others' votes nor do I desire to. Your contention was from your own experience, which I was not privy to. Neither were you privy to my own experience.
Why did you say the bolded?
A vote which you gave a disclaimer that it was not really a vote, which precludes him from being an actual voter. I'll note it below. Yet you still took it into account for your argument on the speed of the wagons?
Yeah. The mod doesn't care if there's a reason or not. That vote, joke or not, put him at L-2 without even giving him a chance to defend himself. THAT'S A BAD WAGON.
Those of us who knew better. But remember that you came blazing in with FOSes on half the playerbase. That would have given some of the newer players pause.
Fair enough. I'd do it again, though.
The thing is you don't need to be convinced. Only a simple majority of people need to be convinced for a lynch to occur. You can not participate for all you want, but unless you actively work to prevent it and convince others, it still might occur. It goes both ways.
Do you NOT see me trying (AND SUCCEEDING) in killing that wagon?
"Fresh off of Twilight Mafia and you still seem to forget that scum Xalnop was able to achieve L-2 before a case was ever built."
There was a case on Xalnop. He was scummy as hell. There ain't **** on Iso but misinterpretation.
"You pose the statement that his wagon sprang up without so much of a case or any questions. I was disproving your assessment of what occurred. There were in fact questions that needed to be answered."
K. My bad.
"Why is pinkfloyd's the only vote on Tanarin that can be scum?"
Because Seppel and I are town. Why aren't you paying attention?
"We are talking about the speed of a wagon, you are talking about the momentum of a wagon. Tanarin's wagon moved at a faster speed, but did not have as much momentum as Iso's wagon did. Neither of these prove anything one way or another."
Never said they did.
"I'd love to know what those reasons are."
Good thing I already told you.
"While I agree with having a nagging feeling, there's no true evidence of her alignment at the moment, so it's best to put her in the neutral pile."
I AM NOT A NAG
"You've never provided a justification for this. Just 'he's playing like his town self'. That's not good enough. How is he playing like his town self? What makes you so convinced he's town?"
NOT like him town self. Like himself. I've talked to Iso SO MUCH in the past week and have gotten to know him. Everything he's doing here is how he is.
"Trusting Seppel's judgement is a horrible reason. I'm just going to leave it at that."
The hell it is. Town Seppel's damn good with his judgments.
"I end up not liking the entire list. A lot."
You should elaborate on this.
******************Tanarin needs to get back in here and quit trying to hide from the pressure.*******************
KJ- Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Seppel- Can be a little pushy about it, but seems to have town motives.
Loran- Also a little pushy, but he's been pushing hard for not claiming, and has been in general townlike.
Roja- Hasn't been posting, so no read.
Reya- Same
SP- Same.
The Doctor- same
PinkFloyd-Haven't really got a read on him just yet.
Manders- Has been trying to paint me since early, seems like she's trying to cause trouble/chaos instead of trying to ACTUALLY find scum. Possibly scumbuddies with Tanarin.
Iso-I'm beginning to be convinced that his posts are scummy.
Tanarin-Still don't like his early fishing for monikers, etc.
Dagger- Baiting me to vote still seems suspicious to me.
Town
Leaning Town
Neutral
Leaning Scum
Scum
Also Unvote because I don't think I'm getting a response from him anytime soon.
I posted one a while ago.
So is there any other reason you think I'm scum besides how I asked for PBPA's supposedly without posting one myself?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Manders, thank you for making me laugh. I made myself laugh, too, at some of the **** you quoted me saying. I didn't realize how snarky I get when I'm tired and annoyed. xP Also, I think ROTFSD is "rolling on the floor sucking dick", but I may be misinterpreting that. Seems like a Seppel thing to say, though, no?
Silent Prophet, your post format is also making me giggle. I agree that kill-joy should do a PBPA, as well, since he's asking one of everyone. But he really just seems like enthusiastic newbie town to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Got the posts quoted. Just compiling and making it pretty, as per my usual MO.
Suddenly, after re-reading this, I have come to the realization that I have probably misinterpreted your ability. Unless you just weren't ready to let on to people what it was at this point.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think he's also having a problem with how you keep asking other's opinions before revealing your own. I know I am.
Ok, fair enough.
Also: As to my response to Seppel up there, if I wanted a quick lynch, I would've jumped on the Tanarin wagon. I just prefer having as much info as possible before voting, as voting is kinda of a big deal in mafia.
However, if it will sate the masses, here is another PBPA.
People listed in the order I think of them.
Me- Town;
Iso- Leaning Town; He seems like he's trying simply to defend himself from people who are trying to make him slip up. It doesn't look like flailing, however.
Loran- Leaning Town; Seems simply like a frustrated townie.
Seppel- Leaning Town; He has been actively trying to work on finding scum.
The_Doctor-Leaning Town; From what I can gather from his posts, he is very good at analysis of people's posts. His few posts have been very productive.
Manders-Leaning Slightly Town; Would be neutral otherwise. Is whipping her vote/FOS around more than most of us. Could be both a town motive and a scum motive. However, her Iso defense tipped the scale in town favor. She was leaning scum before in my eyes, so she's moved up in the world.
Silent Prophet-Neutral; I can see how having that handicap would make posting difficult for you. It also make's you hard to read. The fact that you claimed makes it unlikely that my initial analysis of you was correct, and I think it would benefit the town if we saw him on day 2 without the handicap so he can defend himself and so the town can get better reads.
Roja-Neutral; Needs to post more.
Reya- Neutral; Needs to post a little more.
Dagger- Neutral; I need more time to think on this one, although I was never a fan of the Iso wagon.
Pinkfloyd- Neutral; Same as with Dagger.
Tanarin- Scum; For reasons I stated before, and also he was on the Iso wagon.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Manders, thank you for making me laugh. I made myself laugh, too, at some of the **** you quoted me saying. I didn't realize how snarky I get when I'm tired and annoyed. xP
It's always good to laugh.
Also, I think ROTFSD is "rolling on the floor sucking dick", but I may be misinterpreting that. Seems like a Seppel thing to say, though, no?
Please tell Seppel to confirm or deny this ASAP!
Silent Prophet, your post format is also making me giggle.
Suddenly, after re-reading this, I have come to the realization that I have probably misinterpreted your ability. Unless you just weren't ready to let on to people what it was at this point.
Eh, it was pretty far-fetched, babe. But really innovative! I liked it.
I think Roja is town/scum.
I think loran16 is town/scum.
I think Tanarin is town/scum.
I think MandersHex is town/scum.
I think Iso is town/scum.
I think pinkfloyd is town/scum.
I think The_Doctor is town/scum.
I think kill-joy is town/scum.
I think Reya Cookiebringer is town/scum.
I think Dagger is town/scum.
I think Seppel is town/scum.
Consider my vote on the person quoted above.
I have my eye on the person quoted above.
I am suspicious of the person quoted above.
I want to respond to/comment on these points but am having difficulty.
Why are we ignoring this?
The current topic is getting us nowhere.
Yes.
No.
I agree somewhat.
I agree strongly.
I'm not convinced.
I strongly disagree.
Roja needs to post more.
loran16 needs to post more.
Tanarin needs to post more.
MandersHex needs to post more.
Iso needs to post more.
pinkfloyd needs to post more.
The_Doctor needs to post more.
kill-joy needs to post more.
ReyaCookiebringer needs to post more.
Dagger needs to post more.
Seppel needs to post more.
I would like to end the day.
I would like to wait for a respone.
I am convinced that the quoted player is town.
I am convinced that the quoted player is scum.
I am convinced this is true.
I am convinced this is a lie.
I will stop at nothing to see this player lynched.
My PR prevents me from doing or answering this.
This is WIFOM.
This is speculation.
This is scummy.
This is self-contradictory.
This is playing both sides of the issue.
This looks like coaching.
I would like to see more pressure on this player.
I would like you to answer this question or point.
Ok, just so you all know I am here, and I am usually at work between 8:00 AM and 6:30 PM Manders, so if you expect an answer during that time, forget it. Anyway let me re-read and see if there are any questions I left unanswered.
They're brothers, Loran. That wasn't a joke. No one here knows Iso better than Seppel and vice versa.
Which is completely irrelevant to whether they're good at reading each other's posts.....though had I known that they were actual brothers, I'd not played in this game. I've had enough of the Wuffles/WoD issue for one mafia career.
More in a bit, just got home from work.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Which is completely irrelevant to whether they're good at reading each other's posts.....though had I known that they were actual brothers, I'd not played in this game. I've had enough of the Wuffles/WoD issue for one mafia career.
These brothers don't live together, so there shouldn't be a problem.
They've played Werewolf and IRC mafia together so much, it is relevant. This is my opinion from what I know about them, and you don't have to believe me, but that is what I believe.
These brothers don't live together, so there shouldn't be a problem.
They've played Werewolf and IRC mafia together so much, it is relevant. This is my opinion from what I know about them, and you don't have to believe me, but that is what I believe.
Different games, and it still is an issue for me. If AI wasn't the mod, I'd replace out immediately.
Going to shower, more later.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I think Roja is town/scum.
I think loran16 is town/scum.
I think Tanarin is town/scum.
I think MandersHex is town/scum.
I think Iso is town/scum.
I think pinkfloyd is town/scum.
I think The_Doctor is town/scum.
I think kill-joy is town/scum.
I think Reya Cookiebringer is town/scum.
I think Dagger is town/scum.
I think Seppel is town/scum.
Consider my vote on the person quoted above.
I have my eye on the person quoted above.
I am suspicious of the person quoted above.
I want to respond to/comment on these points but am having difficulty.
Why are we ignoring this?
The current topic is getting us nowhere.
Yes.
No.
I agree somewhat.
I agree strongly.
I'm not convinced.
I strongly disagree.
Roja needs to post more.
loran16 needs to post more.
Tanarin needs to post more.
MandersHex needs to post more.
Iso needs to post more.
pinkfloyd needs to post more.
The_Doctor needs to post more.
kill-joy needs to post more.
ReyaCookiebringer needs to post more.
Dagger needs to post more.
Seppel needs to post more.
I would like to end the day.
I would like to wait for a respone.
I am convinced that the quoted player is town.
I am convinced that the quoted player is scum.
I am convinced this is true.
I am convinced this is a lie.
I will stop at nothing to see this player lynched.
My PR prevents me from doing or answering this.
This is WIFOM.
This is speculation.
This is scummy.
This is self-contradictory.
This is playing both sides of the issue.
This looks like coaching.
I would like to see more pressure on this player.
I would like you to answer this question or point.
There ya go!!
Thank you <---So you can say that, too, haha
You jerk, I was just about to go to Dictionary mafia!
Also I am surprised that Silent Prophet is posting.
You can get a good idea of ROTFSD just by clicking on the first result in google.
I'm too lazy right now to see if Tanarin is actually lurking or not.
Iso- Leaning Town; He seems like he's trying simply to defend himself from people who are trying to make him slip up. It doesn't look like flailing, however.
What suddenly made me town in your eyes? You had me as leaning scum before.
No, I think he was saying that you only posted a list without reasons/PBPA.
Also, to make it slightly easier for S P to post:
town scum lynch FOS IGMEOY Silent Prophet Roja loran16 Tanarin MandersHex Iso PinkFloyd The_Doctor kill-joy Reya Cookiebringer Dagger Seppel why think how explain where who vote unvote for by
Anyone else who wants to compile a list of possibly helpful words for S P to quote, feel free to add.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Loran re: Post 175: I THINK I see where you are coming from, but I dunno if the post you use here is a good example of this. It does seem like a frustrated player who whats to know reasoning. I think at best that post is more of a null post than a scummy post.
The case I just presented, congratulations, you just showed that you're not actually reading my posts all the way through and clearly just want to lynch me. Which is really scummy. You're off on your read of me because I am town, so to propagate such actions as you have been doing is indicative of a scum mindset despite the fact that you are basing it on nothing, at least, it's nothing according to your interpretation on my read of The_Doctor, who is clearly scumhunting. Self-contradiction. You're tripping all over yourself. You're trying to get a speedlynch. You're accusing me of putting things on other players. You're trying your damndest to paint me as scum and when you're the only one who seems to see it, well, that's telling. I feel I've already indicated all of this in my previous posts, however. You're just asking me to repeat myself, which is anti-productive, and if I recall, you were the one complaining about my lack of productivity. Who is that spurred by, I wonder? Oh gee, maybe loran16's ineptitude at scumhunting.
tl;dr: Anyone who makes so much of an effort against me when I know I'm town and presented the facts already is scum in my eyes.
OK so If I am getting what you are saying, you are basically labeling anyone who sees you as scum as scum them self, is that correct? If so then something is way off with that statement.
@Manders RE: Post 304: OK I can see where you believe he is not scum, but at the same time I dunno if it makes him as Obv. town as you propose him to be. I am willing though to Unvote though.
@Iso and Seppel relationship: I don't think the whole them being siblings thing in and of itself is a gamekiller, but if both are scum and people are taking thier word on each other as gospel (See Manders as an example,) it can get us into a lot of trouble. I can see why Loran would want to replace out on principle though.
@Loran re: Post 175: I THINK I see where you are coming from, but I dunno if the post you use here is a good example of this. It does seem like a frustrated player who whats to know reasoning. I think at best that post is more of a null post than a scummy post.
OK so If I am getting what you are saying, you are basically labeling anyone who sees you as scum as scum them self, is that correct? If so then something is way off with that statement.
@Manders RE: Post 304: OK I can see where you believe he is not scum, but at the same time I dunno if it makes him as Obv. town as you propose him to be. I am willing though to Unvote though.
@Iso and Seppel relationship: I don't think the whole them being siblings thing in and of itself is a gamekiller, but if both are scum and people are taking thier word on each other as gospel (See Manders as an example,) it can get us into a lot of trouble. I can see why Loran would want to replace out on principle though.
More later.
I've played with two sibling pairs before. Both resulted in being annoyances, and not for playing MAFIA. And even just close friends from home playing in games bothers me and has given me bad experiences.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
No, it's Guy A is town. Guy A has a lot of experience with Guy B and says Guy B is town. So, Guy B is town.
.....This is not logic. It's like....ARGGGG you're killing my brain here.
Correct reasoning (And seriously, there is no way this incorrect): "Guy A is town. Guy A has a lot of experience with Guy B, therefore we take his opinion regards to Guy B more credibly than we would otherwise."
You have this odd habit Manders where you find someone as town and then act as if that person is infallible. It's beyond awful logic, and I don't get it at all - or how you with experience under your belt can truly find it a legitimately smart strategy.
And regardless we don't know if Seppel is town. Your quotes prove nothing in that area.
Seppel can be town
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Ok so I took yesterday off from the computer to spend with my partner and holy crap 22 pages (15pp).. So I have done a skim of things but I really need to go back and do a good read when I have time.
First thing that caught my eye was Lorans unvote.. After swaring Iso was scum, I just am curious why the change of heart.
Second, I chose to reveal my handicap as I don't see any harm in letting everyone know that my votes will not count. The vote on Dagger was purely random and had nothing to do with anything except show that my votes will not count.
Third I don't think of myself as a legend. I wanna know who has been lying to you Seppel.
More tomorrow when I have time to nitpick what I read.
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I've mainly given up chamber style here, but I'm still holding true to one point, so don't expect a PBPA from me or for me to respond to your PBPA with a response to each point. (This is time saving as well as a philosophy here btw.) If i miss one of your questions therefore, since I'm just attempting to answer the gist, please repeat it if it's important.
First: Tanarin.
Why is Tanarin scum? The main point raised is "fishing for monikers." Manders has raised "vote on Iso."
But the key point is that no one seems to understand, other than Dagger and maybe The Doctor, how Tanarin started this game.
Post 6 - Admits having some drawback. Suggests skipping Random Vote Stage due to drawbacks. Proposes Moniker claim, noting that they have no bearing on the game. Post 19 - Reiterates RVS point and admits (after ? from Dagger) his role having to do with monikers. Post 25 - Thinks everyone has a vote limitation. Asks about monikor/drawback claim. Post 26 - Claims his drawback. Post 34 - Tries to insist that moniker claims will benefit us, though can see not claiming drawbacks. Post 35 - Insists people don't random vote due to danger of drawbacks. Post 45 - Admits after ? from Iso that his trigger has to do with monikers.
So here's the key here: Fishing can be scummy (Scum tells got their reputation from early tells). But this isn't fishing here by Tanarin. This is a player who's giving away free information.
Giving away role info is bad play. But it's also TOWN play - scum players are shifty, hiding info, and more calculating (so less likely to accidentally reveal things).
More importantly is HOW Tanarin gives away information. He's at first trying to hide it...but as he's questioned, he openly gives away more and more. This is completely inconsistent with a scum mindset here - scum will hide info (naturally) or give it all away at once. They're less indecisive about their plans (they can be about other things, but plans like this - claims for example, not so much).
(Classic example: In two games as town I've done an action - a vig in one, a day roleblock in another - which I've claimed to know little about - or that I know something but am not directly responsible for it - and then opted to come clear with it after further questioning made it clear it would distract the town from more relevant issues).
This is super ridiculously town here - I've never seen something comparable by scum for a reason - it doesn't fit the scum mindset. Scum are calculating, deceptive, and trying to win regardless of others. That doesn't fit here - Tanarin's acting openly when pressed instantly, not calculating, and is multiple times worrying about others (Random Vote Stage)
There's also the fact he assumes everyone has vote restrictions. Well with only 3 claimed as such, and unlikely for there to be others, this is something he is less likely to say as scum since he presumably KNOWS what the scum's restrictions ARE.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now Manders here is voting secondly due to a vote (and not really for the fishing). But the key here is that people vote oddly. This is not to say that votes can't be scummy - certainly they can be. But a single vote, 4th on a wagon, doesn't necessarily mean scum. Nor does his odd explanation (liking Doctor's reason but not enough for a vote, but fearmongering?).
It's odd and curious to be sure. But it's not enough to overwhelm the huge town tell he gives off in his first few posts.
Tanarin is town. Super town.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Wait, what? After everything you've been proclaiming, this
is enough for you to change your mind?
You're going to have to explain that one to me, loran.
That's not obvious to you? He's assuming you have an ability to read his PM, thus you think he's town.
Yes, that's a scum thought.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
OK so If I am getting what you are saying, you are basically labeling anyone who sees you as scum as scum them self, is that correct? If so then something is way off with that statement.
There's absolutely nothing off with thinking that the people who are accusing me of being scum are scum, as I know I am town. Especially when they try so hard to make a huge case out of it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's absolutely nothing off with thinking that the people who are accusing me of being scum are scum, as I know I am town. Especially when they try so hard to make a huge case out of it.
Well it's bad logic. Whether it's a natural reaction or not is another story. But it's really bad logic.
Welcome to mafia: where to mislynch, TOWN PLAYERS have to be on a wagon.
If that's your scumtell, it's a crappy one.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So what you're saying is, everyone.. including yourself... is scum?
*shakes head*
/joke
Also, guys, I'm going to DC tomorrow until Friday. I don't know if I'll have internet. If I do, I will post. If not, please do not replace me. I will be back, I promise.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, guys, I'm going to DC tomorrow until Friday. I don't know if I'll have internet. If I do, I will post. If not, please do not replace me. I will be back, I promise.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Friday's 3 days, no worry of replacement, but thanks for the notice.
Also, seriously people, there is time for fun in mafia, but can you f****** be serious every now and then?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I shouldn't have to say "Yay" at this, but i will.
Yay.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So anyway, where'd we leave off? I think we got sidetracked because we were waiting on people to respond to others or something and the people we're waiting on haven't responded.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay, I'm going to do work on my Note. So get all your non-mafia bits out of the way now.
Or, replace out if you want to jerk around. (Sorry Alpha). I'm sure you can find other places, like the Gutter, to do that.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
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Go ahead and tell me what you think my ability is. I'll neither confirm nor deny it, but the curiosity's gotten the better of me.
I gotta know what you think it is.
Leaving now. bbl
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
First of all, the reason I voted you in the first place was partially to get Dagger off my back about the voting thing, as I feel he would have continued to pursue it.
Secondly, because I had it in my head for some reason that you could be faking, but as I pointed out earlier, that theory was WAY too complex for what mafia really seems to be.
I admitted I was wrong, my bad.
Also: Why is it so suspicious to ask for PBPA's? I wanted to see who thought who was scum and why. Maybe someone has a better case against some people than I do.
Like I said before: The entire town is scumhunting, and the scum are trying to make it look like they are. It's the nature of the beast.
Oh I know someone's blending in better than I had originally thought. I just need to figure out who that is.
Fair enough.
Oh, ok. I thought you were referencing me asking for it, not factors outside of that.
This is a fairly good point, actually. That scenario is very unlikely.
It's possible that one is scum, and the other wagon was to take pressure off of the other. I'm going to take a closer look at those wagons real soon, methinks.
I would say it's a null tell. I was trying to get him to post more, so that we could maybe find other tells.
Aside: Should we prod Roja? He's been gone for about 2 days now.
I'm pretty sure that when somebody quotes you, you see what their amnesia trigger (and possibly alignment) is, which is why you're convinced I'm town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mmmkay.
Alright, so I'm going to start off giving Loran what he wants since he's so damn impatient.
There's a lot of postulation in this post. You can see that he's thinking things through. Now it's true that scum can do that, too, but this reads completely genuine to me.
He rebuffs the one vote he has on him. Some say this is a scumtell, but it's not. Town does this, too. And deflection is a null tell on it's own, too, as Loran pointed out later. Curiosity can also equal deflection depending on one's interpretation.
What was the purpose of this? He answered what he thought you were attacking him for. Why can't you correct him instead of being snarky?
Of note, this was my reaction to reading #47 when Loran said that was why he was scum:
Post 62:
This post, however, I do not see why Loran thinks he's scum from this. I see more of the postulation, the internal debating, to figure the game out, and scumhunting.
Is that really enough for a vote to you? That he said "us townies" and used a sad smilie?
GTFOOH
Horrible vote. Why couldn't you just ask the question? Why was the vote necessary here, especially since he had already told us he would be gone for the night?
You're irritated? You don't find anything else wrong with it?
Yeah, this is why Reya got the FoS from me. He's pushing the wagon without even voting. Add the weak attempt to bag on Dagger, and it's a deserved FoS.
Oh, I read what you said. Here they are:
Emphasis mine. You've got yourself planted on that fence so hard, I can't tell where it ends and you begin. In fact, all 3 of thoses posts have fence-sitting in them. This all reads as you wanting to push the wagon without voting, but appear as though you are not doing precisely that.
Completely genuine. I don't know what Loran's talking about anymore with him.
That's not even remotely what he said, but whatever. You're just making yourself look foolish by misinterpreting him and being so tunnelvisioned.
There's really nothing better that could have been said about them.
Ok, Loran. Let's go over this. You're saying that the purple part and the green part don't match, right? So that makes you think he's pulling this explanation out of his ass?
The purple part absolutely reads as frustrated, which can also lead to annoyance. They do match, they do make sense, and you look like a fool.
It doesn't get much more townie than this.
Like, seriously, I can't even fathom where Loran's coming from. Luckily for him, I could never see where he was coming from when he went after me in Superhero and South Park.
How is an IGMEOY a scum post?
And fishing, in and of itself, is not a scumtell.
no.
No.
NO.
It's not. I've seen way too many townies do it just because they're trying to figure the game out and they don't think about it.
The frustration is genuine. Add that to the opinion that he is town, and this is good town frustration. Look how he spells out the things Loran's doing that's pissing him off?
Oh, and something you should know, as it's coming up: Iso is NATURALLY snarky and sarcastic. He starts to show it in this post, with calling Loran his idol.
So, you're posturing that he just made the list up, and put one of the lurkier players as obvtown, knowing that same person was one of the ones voting for him? Why on Earth would any scum ever do that? That would be bound to draw all kinds of attention that scum never want. He may not have a lot of forum-based experience with mafia, but the guy knows what he's doing, loran.
How are you going to go off on him for not presenting a case when, for most of the game, yours on him was "Those posts are scummy. No, really, they are. But I'm not going to tell you how."?
Mhm
It's so obvious to me. How can you people not see this?
as for the bolded...
No. The only thing wrong with that statement is the mind-set that person attacking town = scum. But it's still a natural response to suspect those suspecting you. I go through this ALL THE TIME.
God, can I be done with this already? All he's showing is snark and frustration. This reads as very town to me, not because of how he's reacting, but because I already thought he was town, and I can see these reactions from a townie.
Oh, hey, I can. (I had other quotes which you'll see in the next post.)
Yeah, Iso's town. And this wagon still sucks, as I said it did when I first posted.
Also, this is why Seppel is town, and why, by transitive property of Geometry, Iso is town.
Oh, what? Like you've never seen a town Manders /barn the **** out of town Seppel?
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@ Loran:
Do you still feel this way about Dagger?
So, wait, Loran. Why is it ok for you to sit on what you think makes people scum a la Chamber, but the rest of us have to enunciate it?
Just because I read the game every day doesn't mean I'm going to post a ****-ton of information. This is the info gathering stage. I'm here for the ride, man.
Aside, what do you mean what rush? Seriously, I had already told you THREE TIMES that I would give you what you wanted today. Yet you still kept pushing for it. Did you think I was talking out of my ass?
Wtf was this?
They're brothers, Loran. That wasn't a joke. No one here knows Iso better than Seppel and vice versa.
No, it's Guy A is town. Guy A has a lot of experience with Guy B and says Guy B is town. So, Guy B is town.
Get it straight.
I do not appreciate what you are insinuating. Good day, sir.
@ pinkfloyd:
He cares more about the joke with Seppel than making sense in his post. Why? Buddying to Seppel, cause he knows he's town, and he feels it's obvious to the game now.
You're next.
@ kill-joy:
I have a brother. He's very mean to me. But I still love him more than any other man, including my husband. You weren't better off, I don't think.
@ Seppel:
Honey, if you want anyone here to know what you're talking about, you're going to have to explain it. Ghost Town was before my time here.
Also, what do you think of this?
You said this, remember, about Loran?
The very next post:
Any thoughts on this? I do, and I bet we do have the same thoughts on it. But I also know you didn't notice it the first time, as neither did I.
Ok, that's one I've never seen before. What's it mean?
And you're such an attention ****
@ Dagger:
Please understand this.
The speed of the wagon was not and is not the deciding factor in anything. As made obvious by the fact that I AM VOTING FOR HIM AND DID SO HOURS (DAYS NOW) AGO.
I merely pointed it out.
So, to answer your question, neither of those is more valid because you can't have a wagon to study the speed of if there weren't votes. Votes usually have reason. You have to analyze the reasons for the wagons. The reasons for Iso's wagon are crap. A bunch of null tells that some people have decided are from scum and some have decided are from town. It's a stupid wagon.
Tanarin's wagon, however, came about mainly from his own vote on the Iso wagon. It was, no hyperbole, the scummiest vote I've ever seen in my life.
Nope.
Why did you say the bolded?
Yeah. The mod doesn't care if there's a reason or not. That vote, joke or not, put him at L-2 without even giving him a chance to defend himself. THAT'S A BAD WAGON.
Fair enough. I'd do it again, though.
Do you NOT see me trying (AND SUCCEEDING) in killing that wagon?
@ The_Doctor:
There was a case on Xalnop. He was scummy as hell. There ain't **** on Iso but misinterpretation.
K. My bad.
Because Seppel and I are town. Why aren't you paying attention?
Never said they did.
Good thing I already told you.
I AM NOT A NAG
NOT like him town self. Like himself. I've talked to Iso SO MUCH in the past week and have gotten to know him. Everything he's doing here is how he is.
The hell it is. Town Seppel's damn good with his judgments.
You should elaborate on this.
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I posted one a while ago.
So is there any other reason you think I'm scum besides how I asked for PBPA's supposedly without posting one myself?
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Silent Prophet, your post format is also making me giggle. I agree that kill-joy should do a PBPA, as well, since he's asking one of everyone. But he really just seems like enthusiastic newbie town to me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Suddenly, after re-reading this, I have come to the realization that I have probably misinterpreted your ability. Unless you just weren't ready to let on to people what it was at this point.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
:gaping::embarrass:
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
Ok, fair enough.
Also: As to my response to Seppel up there, if I wanted a quick lynch, I would've jumped on the Tanarin wagon. I just prefer having as much info as possible before voting, as voting is kinda of a big deal in mafia.
However, if it will sate the masses, here is another PBPA.
People listed in the order I think of them.
Me- Town;
Iso- Leaning Town; He seems like he's trying simply to defend himself from people who are trying to make him slip up. It doesn't look like flailing, however.
Loran- Leaning Town; Seems simply like a frustrated townie.
Seppel- Leaning Town; He has been actively trying to work on finding scum.
The_Doctor-Leaning Town; From what I can gather from his posts, he is very good at analysis of people's posts. His few posts have been very productive.
Manders-Leaning Slightly Town; Would be neutral otherwise. Is whipping her vote/FOS around more than most of us. Could be both a town motive and a scum motive. However, her Iso defense tipped the scale in town favor. She was leaning scum before in my eyes, so she's moved up in the world.
Silent Prophet-Neutral; I can see how having that handicap would make posting difficult for you. It also make's you hard to read. The fact that you claimed makes it unlikely that my initial analysis of you was correct, and I think it would benefit the town if we saw him on day 2 without the handicap so he can defend himself and so the town can get better reads.
Roja-Neutral; Needs to post more.
Reya- Neutral; Needs to post a little more.
Dagger- Neutral; I need more time to think on this one, although I was never a fan of the Iso wagon.
Pinkfloyd- Neutral; Same as with Dagger.
Tanarin- Scum; For reasons I stated before, and also he was on the Iso wagon.
I'm confused.
It's always good to laugh.
Please tell Seppel to confirm or deny this ASAP!
Gotta love a man that can admit he giggles
Eh, it was pretty far-fetched, babe. But really innovative! I liked it.
No problem.
Come, now, are you really surprised by that?
I'll be right back. Just wait right there.
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I think Roja is town/scum.
I think loran16 is town/scum.
I think Tanarin is town/scum.
I think MandersHex is town/scum.
I think Iso is town/scum.
I think pinkfloyd is town/scum.
I think The_Doctor is town/scum.
I think kill-joy is town/scum.
I think Reya Cookiebringer is town/scum.
I think Dagger is town/scum.
I think Seppel is town/scum.
Consider my vote on the person quoted above.
I have my eye on the person quoted above.
I am suspicious of the person quoted above.
I want to respond to/comment on these points but am having difficulty.
Why are we ignoring this?
The current topic is getting us nowhere.
Yes.
No.
I agree somewhat.
I agree strongly.
I'm not convinced.
I strongly disagree.
Roja needs to post more.
loran16 needs to post more.
Tanarin needs to post more.
MandersHex needs to post more.
Iso needs to post more.
pinkfloyd needs to post more.
The_Doctor needs to post more.
kill-joy needs to post more.
ReyaCookiebringer needs to post more.
Dagger needs to post more.
Seppel needs to post more.
I would like to end the day.
I would like to wait for a respone.
I am convinced that the quoted player is town.
I am convinced that the quoted player is scum.
I am convinced this is true.
I am convinced this is a lie.
I will stop at nothing to see this player lynched.
My PR prevents me from doing or answering this.
This is WIFOM.
This is speculation.
This is scummy.
This is self-contradictory.
This is playing both sides of the issue.
This looks like coaching.
I would like to see more pressure on this player.
I would like you to answer this question or point.
There ya go!!
Thank you <---So you can say that, too, haha
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Which is completely irrelevant to whether they're good at reading each other's posts.....though had I known that they were actual brothers, I'd not played in this game. I've had enough of the Wuffles/WoD issue for one mafia career.
More in a bit, just got home from work.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
These brothers don't live together, so there shouldn't be a problem.
They've played Werewolf and IRC mafia together so much, it is relevant. This is my opinion from what I know about them, and you don't have to believe me, but that is what I believe.
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Different games, and it still is an issue for me. If AI wasn't the mod, I'd replace out immediately.
Going to shower, more later.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
You jerk, I was just about to go to Dictionary mafia!
Also I am surprised that Silent Prophet is posting.
You can get a good idea of ROTFSD just by clicking on the first result in google.
I'm too lazy right now to see if Tanarin is actually lurking or not.
And some other stuff.
SP has been trying to improve his play. Step one is to post more. Check!
I'm almost afraid to do that, but ok.
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Did you want all of the players to fill that out?
What suddenly made me town in your eyes? You had me as leaning scum before.
No, I think he was saying that you only posted a list without reasons/PBPA.
Also, to make it slightly easier for S P to post:
town scum lynch FOS IGMEOY Silent Prophet Roja loran16 Tanarin MandersHex Iso PinkFloyd The_Doctor kill-joy Reya Cookiebringer Dagger Seppel why think how explain where who vote unvote for by
Anyone else who wants to compile a list of possibly helpful words for S P to quote, feel free to add.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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QQ more and get lynched.
OK so If I am getting what you are saying, you are basically labeling anyone who sees you as scum as scum them self, is that correct? If so then something is way off with that statement.
@Manders RE: Post 304: OK I can see where you believe he is not scum, but at the same time I dunno if it makes him as Obv. town as you propose him to be. I am willing though to Unvote though.
@Iso and Seppel relationship: I don't think the whole them being siblings thing in and of itself is a gamekiller, but if both are scum and people are taking thier word on each other as gospel (See Manders as an example,) it can get us into a lot of trouble. I can see why Loran would want to replace out on principle though.
More later.
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I've played with two sibling pairs before. Both resulted in being annoyances, and not for playing MAFIA. And even just close friends from home playing in games bothers me and has given me bad experiences.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Iso's 303 is really town. Unvote.
.....This is not logic. It's like....ARGGGG you're killing my brain here.
Correct reasoning (And seriously, there is no way this incorrect): "Guy A is town. Guy A has a lot of experience with Guy B, therefore we take his opinion regards to Guy B more credibly than we would otherwise."
You have this odd habit Manders where you find someone as town and then act as if that person is infallible. It's beyond awful logic, and I don't get it at all - or how you with experience under your belt can truly find it a legitimately smart strategy.
And regardless we don't know if Seppel is town. Your quotes prove nothing in that area.
Seppel can be town
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
And, it's been awhile since anyone commented on my fail logic
/misses Cyan
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Wait, what? After everything you've been proclaiming, this
is enough for you to change your mind?
You're going to have to explain that one to me, loran.
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First thing that caught my eye was Lorans unvote.. After swaring Iso was scum, I just am curious why the change of heart.
Second, I chose to reveal my handicap as I don't see any harm in letting everyone know that my votes will not count. The vote on Dagger was purely random and had nothing to do with anything except show that my votes will not count.
Third I don't think of myself as a legend. I wanna know who has been lying to you Seppel.
More tomorrow when I have time to nitpick what I read.
First: Tanarin.
Why is Tanarin scum? The main point raised is "fishing for monikers." Manders has raised "vote on Iso."
But the key point is that no one seems to understand, other than Dagger and maybe The Doctor, how Tanarin started this game.
Post 6 - Admits having some drawback. Suggests skipping Random Vote Stage due to drawbacks. Proposes Moniker claim, noting that they have no bearing on the game.
Post 19 - Reiterates RVS point and admits (after ? from Dagger) his role having to do with monikers.
Post 25 - Thinks everyone has a vote limitation. Asks about monikor/drawback claim.
Post 26 - Claims his drawback.
Post 34 - Tries to insist that moniker claims will benefit us, though can see not claiming drawbacks.
Post 35 - Insists people don't random vote due to danger of drawbacks.
Post 45 - Admits after ? from Iso that his trigger has to do with monikers.
So here's the key here: Fishing can be scummy (Scum tells got their reputation from early tells). But this isn't fishing here by Tanarin. This is a player who's giving away free information.
Giving away role info is bad play. But it's also TOWN play - scum players are shifty, hiding info, and more calculating (so less likely to accidentally reveal things).
More importantly is HOW Tanarin gives away information. He's at first trying to hide it...but as he's questioned, he openly gives away more and more. This is completely inconsistent with a scum mindset here - scum will hide info (naturally) or give it all away at once. They're less indecisive about their plans (they can be about other things, but plans like this - claims for example, not so much).
(Classic example: In two games as town I've done an action - a vig in one, a day roleblock in another - which I've claimed to know little about - or that I know something but am not directly responsible for it - and then opted to come clear with it after further questioning made it clear it would distract the town from more relevant issues).
This is super ridiculously town here - I've never seen something comparable by scum for a reason - it doesn't fit the scum mindset. Scum are calculating, deceptive, and trying to win regardless of others. That doesn't fit here - Tanarin's acting openly when pressed instantly, not calculating, and is multiple times worrying about others (Random Vote Stage)
There's also the fact he assumes everyone has vote restrictions. Well with only 3 claimed as such, and unlikely for there to be others, this is something he is less likely to say as scum since he presumably KNOWS what the scum's restrictions ARE.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now Manders here is voting secondly due to a vote (and not really for the fishing). But the key here is that people vote oddly. This is not to say that votes can't be scummy - certainly they can be. But a single vote, 4th on a wagon, doesn't necessarily mean scum. Nor does his odd explanation (liking Doctor's reason but not enough for a vote, but fearmongering?).
It's odd and curious to be sure. But it's not enough to overwhelm the huge town tell he gives off in his first few posts.
Tanarin is town. Super town.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
That's not obvious to you? He's assuming you have an ability to read his PM, thus you think he's town.
Yes, that's a scum thought.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
There's absolutely nothing off with thinking that the people who are accusing me of being scum are scum, as I know I am town. Especially when they try so hard to make a huge case out of it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well it's bad logic. Whether it's a natural reaction or not is another story. But it's really bad logic.
Welcome to mafia: where to mislynch, TOWN PLAYERS have to be on a wagon.
If that's your scumtell, it's a crappy one.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Oh whoops, I just realized that whole thing up there was for S P. AND HERE I THOUGHT I WAS AN INNOVATOR.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
EVERYONE IS SCUM
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Except, ya know... Townies.
So what you're saying is, everyone.. including yourself... is scum?
*shakes head*
The part that sucks is that he apparently can never use... wait.
@SP: Which of the following statements are true?
"I can speak normally any time I want, but if I break the PR I don't get an extra vote."
"I have my PR on D1, but after that I can speak normally."
"I get an extra vote every day if I fulfill my PR."
"My PR lets me only post smilies and quotes for the entire game."
/joke
Also, guys, I'm going to DC tomorrow until Friday. I don't know if I'll have internet. If I do, I will post. If not, please do not replace me. I will be back, I promise.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Blue is red! Red is blue! We're all the same!
Lawl. Red vs. Blue is awesome.
Also, seriously people, there is time for fun in mafia, but can you f****** be serious every now and then?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
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Enough. Play freaking mafia please.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Ok, ok. We'll play.
I shouldn't have to say "Yay" at this, but i will.
Yay.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Or, replace out if you want to jerk around. (Sorry Alpha). I'm sure you can find other places, like the Gutter, to do that.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity