I personally think you're far too cautious, regardless of alignment, and that always makes me see you as somewhat scummy.
So...
Yes.
What's wrong with being cautious? I like to avoid mislynches. IE I didn't vote Void in #53 after he claimed role cop. Even though he was lying, it just didn't feel right.
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What's wrong with being cautious? I like to avoid mislynches. IE I didn't vote Void in #53 after he claimed role cop. Even though he was lying, it just didn't feel right.
there's no such a thing as being overly cautious or overly daring. You play the way you like, I'm cautious too and I was only mislynched once, ppl don't find me scummy because of that.
It's much worse when you are cautious and suddenly you are overeager and wish-washy, now that make pppl suspitious.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What's wrong with being cautious? I like to avoid mislynches. IE I didn't vote Void in #53 after he claimed role cop. Even though he was lying, it just didn't feel right.
There's nothing wrong with being cautious, but if almost everyone agrees that a player should be lynched and there's little left to discuss, you should hammer. It looks scummy if you don't, regardless of what that player flips.
I almost never read caution as a scum tell (it can be, context specific) - it usually just means that you haven't played the game that long. Sure, some of the best players I know are cautious, but most aren't. As you play more you gain more confidence in your reads.
I almost never read caution as a scum tell (it can be, context specific) - it usually just means that you haven't played the game that long. Sure, some of the best players I know are cautious, but most aren't. As you play more you gain more confidence in your reads.
This. I was much more cautious when I started, it's a common newbie trait I think.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Does anyone want to start a 'Bad Mafia Players Clan' with me?
Requirements:
-Must have poor analyzing skills
-Can't sway opinions of others
-Rarely an early scum NK
Bonus:
-Get's mislynched regularly
-Replaces out often
-Obvious scum
-Has been modkilled
-----------
inb4 experienced players say "GUESS I CANT JOIN". We talk about terrible plays we made, and how awful our reads are. We can give tips and sympathize with each other too
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Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
Does anyone want to start a 'Bad Mafia Players Clan' with me?
Requirements:
-Must have poor analyzing skills
-Can't sway opinions of others
-Rarely an early scum NK
Bonus:
-Get's mislynched regularly
-Replaces out often
-Obvious scum
-Has been modkilled
-----------
inb4 experienced players say "GUESS I CANT JOIN". We talk about terrible plays we made, and how awful our reads are. We can give tips and sympathize with each other too
I recommend joining The Family, and focusing on what you're doing good instead of what you're doing badly.
Whats everyone's thoughts on meta and how most players just rely on it? Sometimes they will even ignore a case because that player is playing their supposed town game.
Whats everyone's thoughts on meta and how most players just rely on it? Sometimes they will even ignore a case because that player is playing their supposed town game.
I find that meta is useful for supplementing a case, but shouldn't be the end-all of "this person is mafia" reasoning.
Newer players are more suspectable to meta because their t/s difference is more notable due to experience.
Whats everyone's thoughts on meta and how most players just rely on it? Sometimes they will even ignore a case because that player is playing their supposed town game.
I've started to use meta more. It doesn't always work, but it can help quite often.
Adding on to the "theory" part of mafia, what's the psychological effect of avatars in mafia games?
Psychology majors, help?
Avatars don't do much for me except to help me figure out which person is which. It's why I asked IB to make one in I think Basic 49. It just makes it easier for quick identification.
Avatars don't do much for me except to help me figure out which person is which. It's why I asked IB to make one in I think Basic 49. It just makes it easier for quick identification.
Yeah, but would having a "cuter" avatar make people subconsciously think that you are town, for example?
Hmm. Should write a paper on that. For example, avatars are like faces to me. If someone changes their avatar then it's really jarring to me and I have to get adjusted to it.
inb4 experienced players say "GUESS I CANT JOIN". We talk about terrible plays we made, and how awful our reads are. We can give tips and sympathize with each other too
Whats everyone's thoughts on meta and how most players just rely on it? Sometimes they will even ignore a case because that player is playing their supposed town game.
I find meta is infinitely more reliable in determining that a person is town as opposed to mafia. Then there are the few people who don't have a stable meta at all...
@Proph: I change my avatar as I see fit. I've actually considered that question myself, though. I've considered looking into it. However, if you come up with any info, let me know!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Proph: I change my avatar as I see fit. I've actually considered that question myself, though. I've considered looking into it. However, if you come up with any info, let me know!
lol. I just assumed, y'know, since we talk about the stuff we make in the Crafters most of the time.
Well, unless we talk about anime.
Haha, well, SOMETIMES we do, but we talk about other stuff more than Mafia.
You (and anyone else) are more than welcome to come by and start a conversation about Mafia, though. We have plenty of experienced players that could provide their input.
Yeah, but would having a "cuter" avatar make people subconsciously think that you are town, for example?
Hmm. Should write a paper on that. For example, avatars are like faces to me. If someone changes their avatar then it's really jarring to me and I have to get adjusted to it.
The "cute factor" of baby mammal survival being hardwired into our brains
+ Chibi C'Thulhu's old chibi style avi', which he had in Stick It Mafia.
------------------------------------------
TONS of Bad Reads on his Play -- 'Nuf Said.
Not very scientific evidence, but it did happen.
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I fail to see how one's avatar could reveal alignment.
Prophylaxis, a few questions came to me.
1) Have you ever changed your avatar? (I'm still some what new and don't know if you have or not)
2) Did you witness someone change their avatar which made you believe you knew, or thought you knew, their alignment because of the change?
As for your comment on Psycology Major's:
I would believe it does help. My wife is Psychology Major going for her Masters degree. Along the way, my wife has taught me some psycology to use in everyday life. I will say that the players here to not respond well to certain psycologies, meaning that the players do not react the way they should when certain psychologies are used on them. But when this occurrs, IMO, is a huge tell on their character and tells me there is something to hide. Hope that helps.
The "cute factor" of baby mammal survival being hardwired into our brains
+ Chibi C'Thulhu's old chibi style avi', which he had in Stick It Mafia.
------------------------------------------
TONS of Bad Reads on his Play -- 'Nuf Said.
Not very scientific evidence, but it did happen.
I'll keep my avatar then Maybe I'll go for cuter eventually.
I would believe it does help. My wife is Psychology Major going for her Masters degree. Along the way, my wife has taught me some psycology to use in everyday life. I will say that the players here to not respond well to certain psycologies, meaning that the players do not react the way they should when certain psychologies are used on them. But when this occurrs, IMO, is a huge tell on their character and tells me there is something to hide. Hope that helps.
That's really interesting, could you give examples of people who respond differently/unique to certain psychologies? If you don't want to offend other people that's cool, but if you noticed a psychological tell about me I'd be rather interested in hearing it.
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Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
Yeah, but would having a "cuter" avatar make people subconsciously think that you are town, for example?
Hmm. Should write a paper on that. For example, avatars are like faces to me. If someone changes their avatar then it's really jarring to me and I have to get adjusted to it.
I fail to see how one's avatar could reveal alignment.
I'm more likely to change my avatar to the flavor of the game if I am Town.
I would believe it does help. My wife is Psychology Major going for her Masters degree. Along the way, my wife has taught me some psycology to use in everyday life. I will say that the players here to not respond well to certain psycologies, meaning that the players do not react the way they should when certain psychologies are used on them. But when this occurrs, IMO, is a huge tell on their character and tells me there is something to hide. Hope that helps.
I believe using OOG mechanics is against the spirit of the game. At the very least it should be on the same tier of reasoning as flavorgaming.
Whatever scope you want to use to determine what OOG mechanics are, I don't mind. I will most likely oppose any vaguely OOG-based reasoning you throw at me in-game.
In the interest of maintaining integerity to all players here, I will choose not to answer your question in this thread.
I will PM you which Psycologies I have used on you and how you reacted to them, but not about any other players.
DEFINITELY
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Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I believe using OOG mechanics is against the spirit of the game. At the very least it should be on the same tier of reasoning as flavorgaming.
Whatever scope you want to use to determine what OOG mechanics are, I don't mind. I will most likely oppose any vaguely OOG-based reasoning you throw at me in-game.
Discuss.
-------------------------------
DEFINITELY
We had this discussion at some point a couple months ago.
It goes along the lines of "doing anything to win" which is unfair. I personally hate it when people try and use OOG posts/reasons for attempting to lynch someone
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We had this discussion at some point a couple months ago.
It goes along the lines of "doing anything to win" which is unfair. I personally hate it when people try and use OOG posts/reasons for attempting to lynch someone
There should be set morals for this game. I could get behind a few private proxies and hack mafia moderator's password to find out the scumteam, but I don't. I could use the widely known QT exploit to (slowly) find the scum QT, but I don't do that either. Those would be doing 'anything' to win and it is highly unethical.
There has to be a line drawn of what is and what isn't against the spirit of the game, and I merely disagree with where the line is being drawn.
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Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
I'll respond to Void's question soon, but I have changed my avatar, but they both look similar.
Two ideas I had:
1) a role that is a vig or a cop but always gets roleblocked, making then technically vanilla. Would this be considered bastardly?
2) A game entirely made up of past roles.
There should be set morals for this game. I could get behind a few private proxies and hack mafia moderator's password to find out the scumteam, but I don't. I could use the widely known QT exploit to (slowly) find the scum QT, but I don't do that either. Those would be doing 'anything' to win and it is highly unethical.
You are correct. Those would be flatly cheating, and in this subforum would be blacklist worthy. Also, they seem like a car thief casing cars to steal loose change. What would be the point?
There has to be a line drawn of what is and what isn't against the spirit of the game, and I merely disagree with where the line is being drawn.
Behavioral analysis by use of statistics, records, and publicly available knowledge (whether or not a player's name shows up in the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread:" box, whether they're posting elsewhere in the subforum, whether they check their PM's when requested by another player based on their Public Profile status) are all free game as far as I'm concerned. Examples include when I proved tezzeret12 to be town to my satisfaction as town in Avatar Mafia, and when I did the same to Sir Mu in Stick It Mafia, saving him from the vocal and powerful scum team that had him ripe for a mislynch.
In that game, I also believe I caught Chibi C'Thulhu with the same technique, but he out maneuvered me based on in-thread info. I'm still impressed by that play.
EDIT: My line would be if a player used actual inside knowledge to call another a liar, such as knowing their Facebook status timestamps, their school schedule, etc.
You are correct. Those would be flatly cheating, and in this subforum would be blacklist worthy. Also, they seem like a car thief casing cars to steal loose change. What would be the point?
Behavioral analysis by use of statistics, records, and publicly available knowledge (whether or not a player's name shows up in the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread:" box, whether they're posting elsewhere in the subforum, whether they check their PM's when requested by another player based on their Public Profile status) are all free game as far as I'm concerned. Examples include when I proved tezzeret12 to be town to my satisfaction as town in Avatar Mafia, and when I did the same to Sir Mu in Stick It Mafia, saving him from the vocal and powerful scum team that had him ripe for a mislynch.
In that game, I also believe I caught Chibi C'Thulhu with the same technique, but he out maneuvered me based on in-thread info. I'm still impressed by that play.
EDIT: My line would be if a player used actual inside knowledge to call another a liar, such as knowing their Facebook status timestamps, their school schedule, etc.
I saved myself the trouble and went invisible for that very reason. There is ALWAYS another explanation for something OOG, and your solution is not always the correct one.
And because I find it unfair, I disregard that aspect of any case that happens to come up. If someone's viewing but not posting, I say let 'em.
What's outside the game stays outside the game. If you had to leave the game thread or your own PM box to find your information, you went too far. (edit: Meta is the obvious exception)
The only difference between spying on a player's user page to see when they check their PMs, and stalking their facebook page, is the number of mouse clicks needed to get to either.
What about the knowledge that a player has posted elsewhere? This comes up in games frequently. Even across games?
I just can't agree. I like my play methods. If the shoe is put on the other foot, I'll control the information I want you to see such that you can't catch me.
Also meta is player history, so yes, we're in agreement there.
The one thing I did in Stick It Mafia that, upon reread, I will call myself on was trying to crack player's PM's by asking the wording of things without quoting. That wasn't ok, and I won't ever do it again. (I also almost payed for it. Chibi out clevered me :D) So yeah. That wasn't ok.
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I have some suggestions to make that will probably be controversial, but I think are for the better and want to discuss.
a)total ban of the "bah" posts. I agree that a simple "bah" post doesn't hurt, but I've read again and again people post things they shouldn't on their bah posts (even when the mod disallowed it before on the rules). sometimes is suble, but sometimes that's enough.
b)ban the dead players from replacing into a game again on another role. Recently I've noticed this happening and I can think of a multitude of reasons for this not being good no matter how good the mod is and he believing it shouldn't have problems.
c)ban the reveal of the games info on the spectator forums. I myself had some stuff with this when I was a spectating a game with total knowledge of a game and was mafia together with a "town" and a "scum" of said game. I almost messed up! and I'm veeery careful with those things.
@artifice I noticed more than once that you discovered the roles of the people OOG undisclosed reasons, I know you don't do that on purpose but next time things like that happening I think you should ask to be replaced. That's what would I do.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
About Artifices style. I have no issue with it. Public Information is public and if he wants to use it, he can. But, the use of that info is very shaky. I wont post unless I feel like it. If he wants to call me out, oh look...reason to post. Now, if he stalks someone and gets more info than he should (sees a role pm), he should replace.
Basically, he should only be able to gather as much non-meta info as a non-player, no-spectator the way I see it.
I have some suggestions to make that will probably be controversial, but I think are for the better and want to discuss.
a)total ban of the "bah" posts. I agree that a simple "bah" post doesn't hurt, but I've read again and again people post things they shouldn't on their bah posts (even when the mod disallowed it before on the rules). sometimes is suble, but sometimes that's enough.
b)ban the dead players from replacing into a game again on another role. Recently I've noticed this happening and I can think of a multitude of reasons for this not being good no matter how good the mod is and he believing it shouldn't have problems.
c)ban the reveal of the games info on the spectator forums. I myself had some stuff with this when I was a spectating a game with total knowledge of a game and was mafia together with a "town" and a "scum" of said game. I almost messed up! and I'm veeery careful with those things.
@artifice I noticed more than once that you discovered the roles of the people OOG undisclosed reasons, I know you don't do that on purpose but next time things like that happening I think you should ask to be replaced. That's what would I do.
So you want to change things that aren't broken?
1. What are some examples of Bah posts that people post things they shouldn't?
2. The only issue I see is if player X was a cop and got a guilty on player Y. Player Y killed player X the same night thus player X couldn't tell the result. Player x replaces in later and uses this to get player Y lynched. < Not okay. Other than that I see no reason why players shouldn't be aloud to replace back into games they've been killed him.
3. Are you talking about spectating games and tlaking about them with others? Spectator forums exist for a reason.
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About Artifices style. I have no issue with it. Public Information is public and if he wants to use it, he can. But, the use of that info is very shaky. I wont post unless I feel like it. If he wants to call me out, oh look...reason to post. Now, if he stalks someone and gets more info than he should (sees a role pm), he should replace.
Basically, he should only be able to gather as much non-meta info as a non-player, no-spectator the way I see it.
Let me give an hypothetical example of how those things can negatively impact a game.(And I don't have any idea how to solve this! also this is not about artifice!).
I'm town, I'm playing mafia with a Steam friend, said friend says on thread "sorry I'm lurking because I'm real busy with finals and can't devote time into playing, I promise that I will reread after holidays". The problem is, I notice the guy is always online playing Skyrin, like a lot! For obvious reasons I would never talk about it on the thread, but that can be a pretty strong tell to determinate said player role.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Behavioral analysis by use of statistics, records, and publicly available knowledge (whether or not a player's name shows up in the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread:" box, whether they're posting elsewhere in the subforum, whether they check their PM's when requested by another player based on their Public Profile status)
I consider that last one to be fairly unethical. I could have sworn I heard something about the first one being frowned upon as well, but I don't feel like looking back through the entire Theory/Discussion and Council threads to find it.
You realise 99% of the time it's because they have no time or motivation to catch up, and has little to do with their alignment?
Also, a Mafia player is only a Mafia player inside the game threads. It is extremely rude (and creepy) to spy on someone's activity outside of these.
Would you like this being done to you? Would you like not being able to exist at all on the MTGS forums before you check up on every game? Would you like only consulting your PMs at improbable hours to make sure nobody is refreshing your user profile like a mad man?
Would you consider it fun to have to act like a resistance fighter in a totalitarian state just because you joined a game?
ZDS, I love you. This is exactly how I've been feeling when I post in Mafia games because people (not just Artifice) use extensive OOG reasoning. I am legitimately studying my finals now, and I find it pathetic that I can't casually browse the game while I am studying without be accosted for it. Heck in most Mafia games I like to post elsewhere on the forums, but I feel as though if I post elsewhere then go out for the night, people will thinking I'm avoiding the game for ill-reasons. I'm not, I just don't feel like posting. People who play Mafia need to stop acting like a freaking clingy girlfriend, I feel trapped when I play games sometimes.
I HATE people who go invisible, not because they are hiding, but I like to know who else is reading the game with me. It makes the game feel more social, because with a dozen invisible people I feel like I'm alone in it. But I understand why people go invisible now, sadly.
I laughed so hard at the last part by the way.
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Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
I HATE people who go invisible, not because they are hiding, but I like to know who else is reading the game with me. It makes the game feel more social, because with a dozen invisible people I feel like I'm alone in it. But I understand why people go invisible now, sadly.
I, too, would rather people not be invisible, but as long as it is acceptable to call people out for posting elsewhere and not posting in the game, some will stay that way. ZDS is absolutely right when he says that makes the game not fun.
Of course, I've been known to be one of those people that call others out for that, but I've since realized how much bull it is. I don't think I've done it in awhile, and if I did, the person was probably going DAYS without posting.
Let me give an hypothetical example of how those things can negatively impact a game.(And I don't have any idea how to solve this! also this is not about artifice!).
I'm town, I'm playing mafia with a Steam friend, said friend says on thread "sorry I'm lurking because I'm real busy with finals and can't devote time into playing, I promise that I will reread after holidays". The problem is, I notice the guy is always online playing Skyrin, like a lot! For obvious reasons I would never talk about it on the thread, but that can be a pretty strong tell to determinate said player role.
There's something I want to note in your example. Mafia can be pretty stressful sometimes, and so even if you have a good amount of free time, you may not want to spend it playing Mafia if there's a final coming up, but rather relaxing for a bit.
There is ALWAYS a second explanation to OOG habits.
I HATE people who go invisible, not because they are hiding, but I like to know who else is reading the game with me. It makes the game feel more social, because with a dozen invisible people I feel like I'm alone in it. But I understand why people go invisible now, sadly.
Nothing bugs me like seeing 4 members viewing, but only seeing one name. However, some people may try to use that against me, so I went invisible.
However, writing that brought me to a decision. I'm going to go visible again. I've made my stance on using OOG habits as reasoning abundantly clear, I won't stand for people using them, and I'm not going to let those people force me underground.
Nothing bugs me like seeing 4 members viewing, but only seeing one name. However, some people may try to use that against me, so I went invisible.
However, writing that brought me to a decision. I'm going to go visible again. I've made my stance on using OOG habits as reasoning abundantly clear, I won't stand for people using them, and I'm not going to let those people force me underground.
Blame Seppel and his game rules for a lot of it.
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I, too, would rather people not be invisible, but as long as it is acceptable to call people out for posting elsewhere and not posting in the game, some will stay that way. ZDS is absolutely right when he says that makes the game not fun.
Of course, I've been known to be one of those people that call others out for that, but I've since realized how much bull it is. I don't think I've done it in awhile, and if I did, the person was probably going DAYS without posting.
I never called people on OOG stuff, but it would occasionally affect how I viewed certain players. Like KillJoy in #53, I was bothered that I saw him read the thread but not post. It ended up having NO BEARING on his alignment, so I'm going to drop it.
I'm even more turned off by the fact that people take it to extremes like Artifice. Not just the current game I'm in, but I strongly disliked his use of it on Tezz in #49 while reading it. So I'm NEVER going to allow it to influence my feelings towards the alignment of others.
Nothing bugs me like seeing 4 members viewing, but only seeing one name. However, some people may try to use that against me, so I went invisible.
However, writing that brought me to a decision. I'm going to go visible again. I've made my stance on using OOG habits as reasoning abundantly clear, I won't stand for people using them, and I'm not going to let those people force me underground.
Anyone care to join me?
I was thinking about going invisible, but eff this I'm staying visible. No one takes OOG arguments seriously anyways. Hopefully it spreads!
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I have some suggestions to make that will probably be controversial, but I think are for the better and want to discuss.
a)total ban of the "bah" posts. I agree that a simple "bah" post doesn't hurt, but I've read again and again people post things they shouldn't on their bah posts (even when the mod disallowed it before on the rules). sometimes is suble, but sometimes that's enough.
b)ban the dead players from replacing into a game again on another role. Recently I've noticed this happening and I can think of a multitude of reasons for this not being good no matter how good the mod is and he believing it shouldn't have problems.
c)ban the reveal of the games info on the spectator forums. I myself had some stuff with this when I was a spectating a game with total knowledge of a game and was mafia together with a "town" and a "scum" of said game. I almost messed up! and I'm veeery careful with those things.
@artifice I noticed more than once that you discovered the roles of the people OOG undisclosed reasons, I know you don't do that on purpose but next time things like that happening I think you should ask to be replaced. That's what would I do.
Disagree with all three points. I like bah posts, I don't mind people replacing back in (and I really think you clearly don't understand how helpful that has been in some games), and I think if you mod then you can choose whether or not to post the game info. If I want to I will.
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What's wrong with being cautious? I like to avoid mislynches. IE I didn't vote Void in #53 after he claimed role cop. Even though he was lying, it just didn't feel right.
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It's much worse when you are cautious and suddenly you are overeager and wish-washy, now that make pppl suspitious.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's nothing wrong with being cautious, but if almost everyone agrees that a player should be lynched and there's little left to discuss, you should hammer. It looks scummy if you don't, regardless of what that player flips.
Thanks to Nezumi for the banner!
This. I was much more cautious when I started, it's a common newbie trait I think.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Exactly. I'm extremely cautious. I'm learning to trust my reads and my gut though, as I'm right a lot more than I seem to think I am.
Requirements:
-Must have poor analyzing skills
-Can't sway opinions of others
-Rarely an early scum NK
Bonus:
-Get's mislynched regularly
-Replaces out often
-Obvious scum
-Has been modkilled
-----------
inb4 experienced players say "GUESS I CANT JOIN". We talk about terrible plays we made, and how awful our reads are. We can give tips and sympathize with each other too
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
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I recommend joining The Family, and focusing on what you're doing good instead of what you're doing badly.
Just my four half-pennies worth.
LOL
I find that meta is useful for supplementing a case, but shouldn't be the end-all of "this person is mafia" reasoning.
Newer players are more suspectable to meta because their t/s difference is more notable due to experience.
I've started to use meta more. It doesn't always work, but it can help quite often.
Psychology majors, help?
Avatars don't do much for me except to help me figure out which person is which. It's why I asked IB to make one in I think Basic 49. It just makes it easier for quick identification.
Yeah, but would having a "cuter" avatar make people subconsciously think that you are town, for example?
Hmm. Should write a paper on that. For example, avatars are like faces to me. If someone changes their avatar then it's really jarring to me and I have to get adjusted to it.
All I have to say that qualifies me:
Monster Island.
I find meta is infinitely more reliable in determining that a person is town as opposed to mafia. Then there are the few people who don't have a stable meta at all...
@Proph: I change my avatar as I see fit. I've actually considered that question myself, though. I've considered looking into it. However, if you come up with any info, let me know!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You seem to be under the impression that we talk about Mafia in [The Family].
I've been told that it does.
Hmm. Where's Jamlin again?
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lol. I just assumed, y'know, since we talk about the stuff we make in the Crafters most of the time.
Well, unless we talk about anime.
Haha, well, SOMETIMES we do, but we talk about other stuff more than Mafia.
You (and anyone else) are more than welcome to come by and start a conversation about Mafia, though. We have plenty of experienced players that could provide their input.
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The "cute factor" of baby mammal survival being hardwired into our brains
+ Chibi C'Thulhu's old chibi style avi', which he had in Stick It Mafia.
------------------------------------------
TONS of Bad Reads on his Play -- 'Nuf Said.
Not very scientific evidence, but it did happen.
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Harkarius
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Prophylaxis, a few questions came to me.
1) Have you ever changed your avatar? (I'm still some what new and don't know if you have or not)
2) Did you witness someone change their avatar which made you believe you knew, or thought you knew, their alignment because of the change?
As for your comment on Psycology Major's:
I would believe it does help. My wife is Psychology Major going for her Masters degree. Along the way, my wife has taught me some psycology to use in everyday life. I will say that the players here to not respond well to certain psycologies, meaning that the players do not react the way they should when certain psychologies are used on them. But when this occurrs, IMO, is a huge tell on their character and tells me there is something to hide. Hope that helps.
I'll keep my avatar then Maybe I'll go for cuter eventually.
That's really interesting, could you give examples of people who respond differently/unique to certain psychologies? If you don't want to offend other people that's cool, but if you noticed a psychological tell about me I'd be rather interested in hearing it.
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Then each night I changed it to reflect my night action (animated .gif for the win).
I got killed by the town vig.
LOL
LOL
In the interest of maintaining integerity to all players here, I will choose not to answer your question in this thread.
I will PM you which Psycologies I have used on you and how you reacted to them, but not about any other players.
I'm more likely to change my avatar to the flavor of the game if I am Town.
WIFOM!
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
I love you man. I hadn't seen that interaction. That's hilarious!
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Whatever scope you want to use to determine what OOG mechanics are, I don't mind. I will most likely oppose any vaguely OOG-based reasoning you throw at me in-game.
Discuss.
-------------------------------
DEFINITELY
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
We had this discussion at some point a couple months ago.
It goes along the lines of "doing anything to win" which is unfair. I personally hate it when people try and use OOG posts/reasons for attempting to lynch someone
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There should be set morals for this game. I could get behind a few private proxies and hack mafia moderator's password to find out the scumteam, but I don't. I could use the widely known QT exploit to (slowly) find the scum QT, but I don't do that either. Those would be doing 'anything' to win and it is highly unethical.
There has to be a line drawn of what is and what isn't against the spirit of the game, and I merely disagree with where the line is being drawn.
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Two ideas I had:
1) a role that is a vig or a cop but always gets roleblocked, making then technically vanilla. Would this be considered bastardly?
2) A game entirely made up of past roles.
What are your thoughts?
Behavioral analysis by use of statistics, records, and publicly available knowledge (whether or not a player's name shows up in the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread:" box, whether they're posting elsewhere in the subforum, whether they check their PM's when requested by another player based on their Public Profile status) are all free game as far as I'm concerned. Examples include when I proved tezzeret12 to be town to my satisfaction as town in Avatar Mafia, and when I did the same to Sir Mu in Stick It Mafia, saving him from the vocal and powerful scum team that had him ripe for a mislynch.
In that game, I also believe I caught Chibi C'Thulhu with the same technique, but he out maneuvered me based on in-thread info. I'm still impressed by that play.
EDIT: My line would be if a player used actual inside knowledge to call another a liar, such as knowing their Facebook status timestamps, their school schedule, etc.
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I saved myself the trouble and went invisible for that very reason. There is ALWAYS another explanation for something OOG, and your solution is not always the correct one.
And because I find it unfair, I disregard that aspect of any case that happens to come up. If someone's viewing but not posting, I say let 'em.
I just can't agree. I like my play methods. If the shoe is put on the other foot, I'll control the information I want you to see such that you can't catch me.
Also meta is player history, so yes, we're in agreement there.
The one thing I did in Stick It Mafia that, upon reread, I will call myself on was trying to crack player's PM's by asking the wording of things without quoting. That wasn't ok, and I won't ever do it again. (I also almost payed for it. Chibi out clevered me :D) So yeah. That wasn't ok.
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Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
a)total ban of the "bah" posts. I agree that a simple "bah" post doesn't hurt, but I've read again and again people post things they shouldn't on their bah posts (even when the mod disallowed it before on the rules). sometimes is suble, but sometimes that's enough.
b)ban the dead players from replacing into a game again on another role. Recently I've noticed this happening and I can think of a multitude of reasons for this not being good no matter how good the mod is and he believing it shouldn't have problems.
c)ban the reveal of the games info on the spectator forums. I myself had some stuff with this when I was a spectating a game with total knowledge of a game and was mafia together with a "town" and a "scum" of said game. I almost messed up! and I'm veeery careful with those things.
@artifice I noticed more than once that you discovered the roles of the people OOG undisclosed reasons, I know you don't do that on purpose but next time things like that happening I think you should ask to be replaced. That's what would I do.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
A.) Agree
B.) HIGHLY AGREE
About Artifices style. I have no issue with it. Public Information is public and if he wants to use it, he can. But, the use of that info is very shaky. I wont post unless I feel like it. If he wants to call me out, oh look...reason to post. Now, if he stalks someone and gets more info than he should (sees a role pm), he should replace.
Basically, he should only be able to gather as much non-meta info as a non-player, no-spectator the way I see it.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySo you want to change things that aren't broken?
1. What are some examples of Bah posts that people post things they shouldn't?
2. The only issue I see is if player X was a cop and got a guilty on player Y. Player Y killed player X the same night thus player X couldn't tell the result. Player x replaces in later and uses this to get player Y lynched. < Not okay. Other than that I see no reason why players shouldn't be aloud to replace back into games they've been killed him.
3. Are you talking about spectating games and tlaking about them with others? Spectator forums exist for a reason.
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I'm town, I'm playing mafia with a Steam friend, said friend says on thread "sorry I'm lurking because I'm real busy with finals and can't devote time into playing, I promise that I will reread after holidays". The problem is, I notice the guy is always online playing Skyrin, like a lot! For obvious reasons I would never talk about it on the thread, but that can be a pretty strong tell to determinate said player role.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I consider that last one to be fairly unethical. I could have sworn I heard something about the first one being frowned upon as well, but I don't feel like looking back through the entire Theory/Discussion and Council threads to find it.
ZDS, I love you. This is exactly how I've been feeling when I post in Mafia games because people (not just Artifice) use extensive OOG reasoning. I am legitimately studying my finals now, and I find it pathetic that I can't casually browse the game while I am studying without be accosted for it. Heck in most Mafia games I like to post elsewhere on the forums, but I feel as though if I post elsewhere then go out for the night, people will thinking I'm avoiding the game for ill-reasons. I'm not, I just don't feel like posting. People who play Mafia need to stop acting like a freaking clingy girlfriend, I feel trapped when I play games sometimes.
I HATE people who go invisible, not because they are hiding, but I like to know who else is reading the game with me. It makes the game feel more social, because with a dozen invisible people I feel like I'm alone in it. But I understand why people go invisible now, sadly.
I laughed so hard at the last part by the way.
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I, too, would rather people not be invisible, but as long as it is acceptable to call people out for posting elsewhere and not posting in the game, some will stay that way. ZDS is absolutely right when he says that makes the game not fun.
Of course, I've been known to be one of those people that call others out for that, but I've since realized how much bull it is. I don't think I've done it in awhile, and if I did, the person was probably going DAYS without posting.
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There's something I want to note in your example. Mafia can be pretty stressful sometimes, and so even if you have a good amount of free time, you may not want to spend it playing Mafia if there's a final coming up, but rather relaxing for a bit.
There is ALWAYS a second explanation to OOG habits.
Nothing bugs me like seeing 4 members viewing, but only seeing one name. However, some people may try to use that against me, so I went invisible.
However, writing that brought me to a decision. I'm going to go visible again. I've made my stance on using OOG habits as reasoning abundantly clear, I won't stand for people using them, and I'm not going to let those people force me underground.
Anyone care to join me?
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I never called people on OOG stuff, but it would occasionally affect how I viewed certain players. Like KillJoy in #53, I was bothered that I saw him read the thread but not post. It ended up having NO BEARING on his alignment, so I'm going to drop it.
I'm even more turned off by the fact that people take it to extremes like Artifice. Not just the current game I'm in, but I strongly disliked his use of it on Tezz in #49 while reading it. So I'm NEVER going to allow it to influence my feelings towards the alignment of others.
I was thinking about going invisible, but eff this I'm staying visible. No one takes OOG arguments seriously anyways. Hopefully it spreads!
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
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Disagree with all three points. I like bah posts, I don't mind people replacing back in (and I really think you clearly don't understand how helpful that has been in some games), and I think if you mod then you can choose whether or not to post the game info. If I want to I will.