BTW my "thank you" of Arn's post was a "^^this" AND an experiment by way of the quote in the post you are now reading to see if there is any evidence left behind (which I doubt).
"Thankings" leave no evidence when removed, and should be outlawed as an additional part of the post editting rules.
EDIT: Nope, no acknowledgement of the "Thanking" record.
Artifice, I can still see you thanking my post...?
Yeah, basically this. I'd like to see the use of post thanking shot down immediately by the Council for in-game use aside from post-game and to thank the mod.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Problem is, you can unthank a post, and it will not leave a trail if someone has unthanked your post after you thanked it. In longer games this can be a problem.
Edit: Basically see what artifice said. That's my stance on it.
Who cares? It has absolutely zero effect on the game itself.
I feel like I am just not getting whatever point you are trying to make.
Also, why would removing something like that count as 'editting' your post?
Artifice, I can still see you thanking my post...?
Correct, but you can see no evidence of it in my quote of your post.
That's what I was experimenting with.
Theory: a quoted post will have a notification of having been "Thank You'd"
Experiment: "Thank" a post, then quote said post.
Conclusion: Nope. No record of the "Thank You."
Hence why thanking posts in ongoing games, even the Mod's notifications, should be outlawed as an extension of the "No post editting." rules, already in place. There's no way to track if they've been removed or not in a game, and interactions are interactions for purposes of behavioral analysis, including this new function.
All interactions need to be indelible, and these are erasable. That is unacceptable.
EDIT: Cyan: the only way to record "Thank yous" would be to screen capture them and post them in game. And nobody wants me to start doing that.
Who cares? It has absolutely zero effect on the game itself.
I feel like I am just not getting whatever point you are trying to make.
Also, why would removing something like that count as 'editting' your post?
You guys are being ridiculously nonsensical.
It has as much effect as checking whether someone is reading the thread. Which is to say, it shouldn't have an effect, but it'll likely end up being used regardless unless there's an explicit rule against it.
It has as much effect as checking whether someone is reading the thread. Which is to say, it shouldn't have an effect, but it'll likely end up being used regardless unless there's an explicit rule against it.
No.
It is a recordless, non-permanent way of altering the gamestate (because a "Thank You" click is a behavior) and as such should be made illegal as a extension of host rules against editting.
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You guys are ridiculous. Clicking Thank You on a post is a behavior? Seriously? GTFO. How about the playerbase just ignores any use of that function? I mean Jesus Christ, you guys want Council intervention for everything these days. How about some personal responsibility/community responsibility instead?
Hmm. I don't have strong feelings on the subject. Waiting for more input.
While the comparison to editting is worth considering, I think it's important to note that the editting restriction, if abused, could warp a game considerably.
Liking or unliking a post? Hmm. If it's used in lieu of content, and it becomes he said/she said, perhaps, that could be annoying.
*strokes chin* On the other hand, it may open up some new design space...
Perhaps we let individual mods set their own rules until we see how it shakes out.
Hmm. I don't have strong feelings on the subject. Waiting for more input.
While the comparison to editting is worth considering, I think it's important to note that the editting restriction, if abused, could warp a game considerably.
Liking or unliking a post? I'm not seeing any serious implications of someone unliking.
*strokes chin* It may even open up some new design space...
My main concern is someone liking a post, someone catching it and using it against them, and them unliking it. In the same vein someone can say they've liked a post all game to prove agreement with said poster, when in fact they liked that post five minutes ago.
The problem is there is too little accountability and timestamps with likes while due to the competitive nature of mafia people will use likes and whatnot to build cases, defences, and what-not.
The only real problem I could see with allowing it is it would allow people to signal things during the Night phase. Like, potentially a person liking the post of their strongest scum read if they didn't have enough time to catch up during the Day, or if the cop and vig signaled their targets to one another if no one else is reading the thread.
Those are pretty out-there cases (I dunno if it would even be worth it), but I could see someone trying to take advantage of it if it isn't outright banned.
If that happens, you deal with it when it happens. You can make an argument for a million things being banned because 'something might happen', but that doesn't make it right.
The only real problem I could see with allowing it is it would allow people to signal things during the Night phase. Like, potentially a person liking the post of their strongest scum read if they didn't have enough time to catch up during the Day, or if the cop and vig signaled their targets to one another if no one else is reading the thread.
Those are pretty out-there cases (I dunno if it would even be worth it), but I could see someone trying to take advantage of it if it isn't outright banned.
I'm pretty sure there are far easier ways to cheat than abusing a like system. Part of mafia is abiding by the trust spirit of the game. And while the "like" system could be abused, it violates the trust principle that all games operate on.
If that happens, you deal with it when it happens. You can make an argument for a million things being banned because 'something might happen', but that doesn't make it right.
this feature has the potential to cause a ton of problems, instead of idly sitting by and letting it potentially destroy a set up i'd prefer to take some preemtive strikes against it. i dont think we need to run around like chickens with their heads cut off but pointing out the flaws and discussing what we believe is a proper course of action is not a bad thing. Why are you so against open discussion about this?
If that happens, you deal with it when it happens. You can make an argument for a million things being banned because 'something might happen', but that doesn't make it right.
And your hyperbole here is not an argument.
Like I've said, the fact that this is a way to have an effect on a game that cannot be easily proven if a player chooses to "take it back" without extra effort (screen captures come to mind) makes it akin to uncheckable, unverifiable editting, and since editting is already illegal in all but the most unusual circumstances, "Thanking" in ongoing games should be made illegal as well.
I'm pretty sure there are far easier ways to cheat than abusing a like system. Part of mafia is abiding by the trust spirit of the game. And while the "like" system could be abused, it violates the trust principle that all games operate on.
I like where you are going with this.
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It is a recordless, non-permanent way of altering the gamestate (because a "Thank You" click is a behavior) and as such should be made illegal as a extension of host rules against editting.
If someone tries to use it as an argument as to why they're not scum, I'd be happy to see them lynched immediately, because they're almost definitely scum.
And while I'm at it, I'd also take note of any "Thanks" used as a barn simply due to the fact they can be removed later.
Well, the best analogy might be to the editting rule. That's on honor system as well, when it comes to lightning edits. We may just want to say that unthanking a post is against the rules, and leave it at that.
If someone breaks the rule, we treat it the same way as we would someone caught lightning editting. It shouldn't be a huge deal.
EDIT: And obviously, 3rd parties outside of a game should NOT be permitted to thank posts. Thanks to Rian for bringing that up.
I don't see the "unthanking" as a problem. It's more... informal kinda, like what they're thinking at the time. You can't base an entire case on someone unthanking a post, just like you can't base a case on somebody viewing the thread and not posting.
I'm pretty sure there are far easier ways to cheat than abusing a like system. Part of mafia is abiding by the trust spirit of the game. And while the "like" system could be abused, it violates the trust principle that all games operate on.
I'm not disagreeing, my point was more that people could do things that were abusive, but still technically following the rules.
Maybe just rule it so that "thanking/unthanking" is prohibited during Night?
Honestly though, I think that Azrael's idea of leaving it up to the game mod is best.
There is, but if you edit your post within the first minute or 2 it doesn't give the 'post has been editted by' indicator. This is standard for all vB forums.
I said this in the Theory thread, but seeing as the discussion is in the Council thread:
Has anybody just asked for the "Say Thank You" button to be turned off? I know you can turn off the edit function for subforums so I don't know why you couldn't the "Thank you".
I mean there is no good reason to have it and plenty of good reasons to not have it.
If someone tries to use it as an argument as to why they're not scum, I'd be happy to see them lynched immediately, because they're almost definitely scum.
And while I'm at it, I'd also take note of any "Thanks" used as a barn simply due to the fact they can be removed later.
But, again, how do you prove the person "Thanked" and why should you be required to keep track? One of the defining principles of the game in a subforum is that input into the thread should be unchanging and provable. This is neither, without jumping through a grip of hoops.
Have you never seen a player caught/wagonned for the behavior of being unusually congenial? How about buddying? Or perhaps "acting helpful" (which resembles being helpful, but is subtly different). All of these things can be effected by the "Thank You" additions to posts, and can be altered without record.
The lightning edit example is not what we are talking about here, although I would think lightning editting should be understood already to be a bad idea and illegal. I've never done it, no matter how simple the error. Always afraid someone will quote me who reads quickly
I said this in the Theory thread, but seeing as the discussion is in the Council thread:
Has anybody just asked for the "Say Thank You" button to be turned off? I know you can turn off the edit function for subforums so I don't know why you couldn't the "Thank you".
I mean there is no good reason to have it and plenty of good reasons to not have it.
Actually, Tanarin and I have. Click the "Maintenance has ended. Welcome back. If you find anything out of order, please let us know!" at the top of the page.
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It isn't necessary for it to be turned off, and that is as good a reason as any.
Mafia is, and always has been, built on an inherent baseline of trust. There are many ways that, if someone were so inclined, they could ruin a game. Every game that allows Spectators runs this risk. Are you going to argue that spectator threads shouldn't happen? Why not? The argument is the same. Or what about when a scum dies? He could easily PM some random player(s) in the game and be like 'these guys were on my team'. What then?
In this sub-forum, you have to have a certain amount of trust toward other players. The game can't survive otherwise.
It isn't necessary for it to be turned off, and that is as good a reason as any.
Mafia is, and always has been, built on an inherent baseline of trust. There are many ways that, if someone were so inclined, they could ruin a game. Every game that allows Spectators runs this risk. Are you going to argue that spectator threads shouldn't happen? Why not? The argument is the same. Or what about when a scum dies? He could easily PM some random player(s) in the game and be like 'these guys were on my team'. What then?
In this sub-forum, you have to have a certain amount of trust toward other players. The game can't survive otherwise.
Are you advocating a rule that says, "Once you thank a post, you may not unthank it."? What is there to trust with these?
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But, again, how do you prove the person "Thanked" and why should you be required to keep track? One of the defining principles of the game in a subforum is that input into the thread should be unchanging and provable. This is neither, without jumping through a grip of hoops.
Have you never seen a player caught/wagonned for the behavior of being unusually congenial? How about buddying? Or perhaps "acting helpful" (which resembles being helpful, but is subtly different). All of these things can be effected by the "Thank You" additions to posts, and can be altered without record.
The lightning edit example is not what we are talking about here, although I would think lightning editting should be understood already to be a bad idea and illegal. I've never done it, no matter how simple the error. Always afraid someone will quote me who reads quickly
Actually, Tanarin and I have. Click the "Maintenance has ended. Welcome back. If you find anything out of order, please let us know!" at the top of the page.
Actually, when I was a mod, I'm pretty sure mods can see ninja edits. If I'm remembering correctly.
But still, that attitude is in the wrong place. You don't do something illegal because you're afraid of being caught? Why not just avoid illegal things because they're, you know, illegal?
It isn't necessary for it to be turned off, and that is as good a reason as any.
Mafia is, and always has been, built on an inherent baseline of trust. There are many ways that, if someone were so inclined, they could ruin a game. Every game that allows Spectators runs this risk. Are you going to argue that spectator threads shouldn't happen? Why not? The argument is the same. Or what about when a scum dies? He could easily PM some random player(s) in the game and be like 'these guys were on my team'. What then?
In this sub-forum, you have to have a certain amount of trust toward other players. The game can't survive otherwise.
I don't disagree with you on the trust thing, but I will disagree with on the fact that it isn't necessary to be turned off. The "Say thank you" adds nothing to the game and has a decent chance to be abused. That alone is enough to be turned off. Add to the fact that there is almost no accountability with it and the fact is it is very easy to abuse and little in the ways of proving it.
Based on those facts the "Say Thank You" system should be turned off for the Sub-forum.
@cyan, did you call me pinkfloyd?
also i see your point about this being no different then pms, we should probably just be sure to punish outside players who like posts unfaithfully.
As for being in a game and liking a post: it probably will be fine just allowing game mods to handle this as they see fit. I would think they will make this illegal for the most part(especially to prevent night communication, and also to prevent scum from using it to sent code during the day). It certainly wouldnt be a bad idea to simply turn it off in the subforum but it probably wont be needed.
@Guardman: It actually would be nice to be able to thank posts that I agree with, especially if it's a game I'm catching up in, or to see who explicitly agrees with the post without them having to post "/barn" or "^this" (which can clutter up the thread if there's a lot of them).
But, again, how do you prove the person "Thanked" and why should you be required to keep track? One of the defining principles of the game in a subforum is that input into the thread should be unchanging and provable. This is neither, without jumping through a grip of hoops.
But it's the same with the "who's viewing" thing. You can't prove that someone was looking at the forum in the same way, and yet being able to see who's viewing the thread doesn't hurt the game. Why is this different?
Quote from Cyan »
Mafia is, and always has been, built on an inherent baseline of trust. There are many ways that, if someone were so inclined, they could ruin a game. Every game that allows Spectators runs this risk. Are you going to argue that spectator threads shouldn't happen? Why not? The argument is the same. Or what about when a scum dies? He could easily PM some random player(s) in the game and be like 'these guys were on my team'. What then?
In this sub-forum, you have to have a certain amount of trust toward other players. The game can't survive otherwise.
Nobody is arguing with this, it's laughably easy to cheat in a game of mafia. What everyone is arguing about is "should it be considered cheating to abuse the thanking system?"
The Mod knows whom the scum are, and should be able to figure it out if they are using this to 'send code'. Especially since Mods can read scum quicktopics, and are supposed to be copied on all scum PMs.
Are you advocating a rule that says, "Once you thank a post, you may not unthank it."? What is there to trust with these?
It has zero to do with the feature. Cyan is saying that to play mafia you need to have a level of trust with the playerbase. I could PM everyone alive in a game, so should PM's be turned off for the mafia sub? Edits were turned off, but its just better to allow edits for everyone to make the workload easy on our admin staff here than to manually add permisions. (which still doesn't get rid of all editing locks, since if the mod was in a game, they'd have edit privlages in that game as well)
The council only needs to be involved if that trust is breached. The fact that your theorizing ways to abuse it shows the lack of trust people can have in you here.
I think the main thing people are forgetting is that the "Say Thank You" feature is unlike the edit and PM feature for the following reasons:
1. Editing and PMs are necessary to run a game of Mafia. Saying Thank You is not.
2. Editing and PMs leave trails and can be checked by Mods (Well not exactly sure about checking PMs as I never had the inclination to read other people's mail). Saying thank you leaves no trail and therefore no accountability.
Yes there is a certain amount of trust necessary to play Mafia, but when a system is easily abusable, almost impossible to track, and brings nothing/is not needed to play a game then I say it is better off gotten rid of.
I don't think the thanking thing will be a big issue. If a mod is really that wary of them, just put in the OP that "thanking is not allowed in this game". If it becomes a problem somewhere down the line, then mods will all just put that in the OP.
Other than that, I like the feature. Not in games, it'll work great, say in the Player Signup list thing. We could just have people post like "/in for all basics" then all players who also want that can thank that post. Same for the other game types.
Other things that aren't just the basic game types (Games with more than 20 players) can just be a new post which people can like.
Edit: The think I don't like about it is that it sends you to a new screen when I thank posts. It really should be like a 'like' on FB, instead of sending you to a new page.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
How about this: We just completely ignore them, and if someone keeps trying to make a big deal out of it, lynch them. I don't think it needs to be banned; it's on the players for this one.
It has zero to do with the feature. Cyan is saying that to play mafia you need to have a level of trust with the playerbase. I could PM everyone alive in a game, so should PM's be turned off for the mafia sub? Edits were turned off, but its just better to allow edits for everyone to make the workload easy on our admin staff here than to manually add permisions. (which still doesn't get rid of all editing locks, since if the mod was in a game, they'd have edit privlages in that game as well)
The council only needs to be involved if that trust is breached. The fact that your theorizing ways to abuse it shows the lack of trust people can have in you here.
First of all, on the bolded by me: Excuse me??
Who, exactly, do you think you are??
I am VERY SPECIFICALLY advocating against this unwanted addition to the Mafia subforum FOR THE BETTERMENT of the the Mafia Subforum, and you have the audacity to underhandedly attack me for it? Classy, coming from a MTGS Moderator.
EDIT, MOVED: Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about this. Apparently it has turned into, for some, a subtle way to troll me instead of speaking to the merits of the argument in a logical manner.
So, to clarify here, you are advocating:
A) that the Council should get involved in petty squables about something that can simply be declared illegal?
B) You are trying to suggest that PMs and Editting, which are invisible to the player base in a game are at all like this new "Thank You" system, which is in plain view?
Can people please stop coming to the council every time someone stubs their toe on a door? When issues come up to the council, can people leave the handbags at the door so we don't have to read that bs? I don't see a great reason to ban thank you posts until it becomes a serious problem. If we get fights that say go something like this "ZOMG person X thanked person Y's post they must be scum!" or another person saying "ZOMG I didn't thank person Y I'm not scum!"
We're all mature enough to stop this form happening, so I don't see a need for a preventative ban.
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Can people please stop coming to the council every time someone stubs their toe on a door? When issues come up to the council, can people leave the handbags at the door so we don't have to read that bs? I don't see a great reason to ban thank you posts until it becomes a serious problem. If we get fights that say go something like this "ZOMG person X thanked person Y's post they must be scum!" or another person saying "ZOMG I didn't thank person Y I'm not scum!"
We're all mature enough to stop this form happening, so I don't see a need for a preventative ban.
My feelings, for what they're worth, are that it is at the discretion of the game mod to ban thanking. If the mod chooses not to allow it, then it's not allowed. We can be adults about this without it needing to be banned by the council. (In a M:tG related example, most people do not build 5 colour Dingus Egg/Armageddon mass LD decks because people find it unsporting. If your playgroup decides to not allow it, then it's not allowed, but that doesn't mean Sheldon and the RC should ban mass LD.)
Can people please stop coming to the council every time someone stubs their toe on a door? When issues come up to the council, can people leave the handbags at the door so we don't have to read that bs? I don't see a great reason to ban thank you posts until it becomes a serious problem. If we get fights that say go something like this "ZOMG person X thanked person Y's post they must be scum!" or another person saying "ZOMG I didn't thank person Y I'm not scum!"
We're all mature enough to stop this form happening, so I don't see a need for a preventative ban.
/barn this forever. It seems the first thing to do whenever anything happens anymore is to invoke the council. This one should be left up to the mods of each game, and in those games where thanking is allowed, the players. If someone makes a big deal of it during a game and you don't like it, ignore them or lynch them.
That goes for a lot of other issues that may crop up as well.
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Artifice, I can still see you thanking my post...?
Just posting this here, too.
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Who cares? It has absolutely zero effect on the game itself.
I feel like I am just not getting whatever point you are trying to make.
Also, why would removing something like that count as 'editting' your post?
You guys are being ridiculously nonsensical.
That's what I was experimenting with.
Hence why thanking posts in ongoing games, even the Mod's notifications, should be outlawed as an extension of the "No post editting." rules, already in place. There's no way to track if they've been removed or not in a game, and interactions are interactions for purposes of behavioral analysis, including this new function.
All interactions need to be indelible, and these are erasable. That is unacceptable.
EDIT: Cyan: the only way to record "Thank yous" would be to screen capture them and post them in game. And nobody wants me to start doing that.
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It has as much effect as checking whether someone is reading the thread. Which is to say, it shouldn't have an effect, but it'll likely end up being used regardless unless there's an explicit rule against it.
It is a recordless, non-permanent way of altering the gamestate (because a "Thank You" click is a behavior) and as such should be made illegal as a extension of host rules against editting.
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just saw cyans post, cyan what do you think of thanks coming from outside sources?
While the comparison to editting is worth considering, I think it's important to note that the editting restriction, if abused, could warp a game considerably.
Liking or unliking a post? Hmm. If it's used in lieu of content, and it becomes he said/she said, perhaps, that could be annoying.
*strokes chin* On the other hand, it may open up some new design space...
Perhaps we let individual mods set their own rules until we see how it shakes out.
As I stated before this definitely seems cool. itd have to take into consideration that a post can be unthanked but it allows for some sweet stuff
Who cares?
@DH: Why would any spectator ever do that?
It's unreal how paranoid you guys are.
My main concern is someone liking a post, someone catching it and using it against them, and them unliking it. In the same vein someone can say they've liked a post all game to prove agreement with said poster, when in fact they liked that post five minutes ago.
The problem is there is too little accountability and timestamps with likes while due to the competitive nature of mafia people will use likes and whatnot to build cases, defences, and what-not.
Those are pretty out-there cases (I dunno if it would even be worth it), but I could see someone trying to take advantage of it if it isn't outright banned.
I'm pretty sure there are far easier ways to cheat than abusing a like system. Part of mafia is abiding by the trust spirit of the game. And while the "like" system could be abused, it violates the trust principle that all games operate on.
this feature has the potential to cause a ton of problems, instead of idly sitting by and letting it potentially destroy a set up i'd prefer to take some preemtive strikes against it. i dont think we need to run around like chickens with their heads cut off but pointing out the flaws and discussing what we believe is a proper course of action is not a bad thing. Why are you so against open discussion about this?
And your hyperbole here is not an argument.
Like I've said, the fact that this is a way to have an effect on a game that cannot be easily proven if a player chooses to "take it back" without extra effort (screen captures come to mind) makes it akin to uncheckable, unverifiable editting, and since editting is already illegal in all but the most unusual circumstances, "Thanking" in ongoing games should be made illegal as well.
I like where you are going with this.
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And while I'm at it, I'd also take note of any "Thanks" used as a barn simply due to the fact they can be removed later.
If someone breaks the rule, we treat it the same way as we would someone caught lightning editting. It shouldn't be a huge deal.
EDIT: And obviously, 3rd parties outside of a game should NOT be permitted to thank posts. Thanks to Rian for bringing that up.
I'm not disagreeing, my point was more that people could do things that were abusive, but still technically following the rules.
Maybe just rule it so that "thanking/unthanking" is prohibited during Night?
Honestly though, I think that Azrael's idea of leaving it up to the game mod is best.
There is, but if you edit your post within the first minute or 2 it doesn't give the 'post has been editted by' indicator. This is standard for all vB forums.
Has anybody just asked for the "Say Thank You" button to be turned off? I know you can turn off the edit function for subforums so I don't know why you couldn't the "Thank you".
I mean there is no good reason to have it and plenty of good reasons to not have it.
Have you never seen a player caught/wagonned for the behavior of being unusually congenial? How about buddying? Or perhaps "acting helpful" (which resembles being helpful, but is subtly different). All of these things can be effected by the "Thank You" additions to posts, and can be altered without record.
The lightning edit example is not what we are talking about here, although I would think lightning editting should be understood already to be a bad idea and illegal. I've never done it, no matter how simple the error. Always afraid someone will quote me who reads quickly
Actually, Tanarin and I have. Click the "Maintenance has ended. Welcome back. If you find anything out of order, please let us know!" at the top of the page.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
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Mafia is, and always has been, built on an inherent baseline of trust. There are many ways that, if someone were so inclined, they could ruin a game. Every game that allows Spectators runs this risk. Are you going to argue that spectator threads shouldn't happen? Why not? The argument is the same. Or what about when a scum dies? He could easily PM some random player(s) in the game and be like 'these guys were on my team'. What then?
In this sub-forum, you have to have a certain amount of trust toward other players. The game can't survive otherwise.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
Actually, when I was a mod, I'm pretty sure mods can see ninja edits. If I'm remembering correctly.
But still, that attitude is in the wrong place. You don't do something illegal because you're afraid of being caught? Why not just avoid illegal things because they're, you know, illegal?
I don't disagree with you on the trust thing, but I will disagree with on the fact that it isn't necessary to be turned off. The "Say thank you" adds nothing to the game and has a decent chance to be abused. That alone is enough to be turned off. Add to the fact that there is almost no accountability with it and the fact is it is very easy to abuse and little in the ways of proving it.
Based on those facts the "Say Thank You" system should be turned off for the Sub-forum.
also i see your point about this being no different then pms, we should probably just be sure to punish outside players who like posts unfaithfully.
As for being in a game and liking a post: it probably will be fine just allowing game mods to handle this as they see fit. I would think they will make this illegal for the most part(especially to prevent night communication, and also to prevent scum from using it to sent code during the day). It certainly wouldnt be a bad idea to simply turn it off in the subforum but it probably wont be needed.
But it's the same with the "who's viewing" thing. You can't prove that someone was looking at the forum in the same way, and yet being able to see who's viewing the thread doesn't hurt the game. Why is this different?
Nobody is arguing with this, it's laughably easy to cheat in a game of mafia. What everyone is arguing about is "should it be considered cheating to abuse the thanking system?"
It has zero to do with the feature. Cyan is saying that to play mafia you need to have a level of trust with the playerbase. I could PM everyone alive in a game, so should PM's be turned off for the mafia sub? Edits were turned off, but its just better to allow edits for everyone to make the workload easy on our admin staff here than to manually add permisions. (which still doesn't get rid of all editing locks, since if the mod was in a game, they'd have edit privlages in that game as well)
The council only needs to be involved if that trust is breached. The fact that your theorizing ways to abuse it shows the lack of trust people can have in you here.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Next problem?
Do existing games rules need to be addressed per mod preferences? Or are they "grandfathered" in?
1. Editing and PMs are necessary to run a game of Mafia. Saying Thank You is not.
2. Editing and PMs leave trails and can be checked by Mods (Well not exactly sure about checking PMs as I never had the inclination to read other people's mail). Saying thank you leaves no trail and therefore no accountability.
Yes there is a certain amount of trust necessary to play Mafia, but when a system is easily abusable, almost impossible to track, and brings nothing/is not needed to play a game then I say it is better off gotten rid of.
3 users say thank you:
Jobie, EronTheRelentless, Azrael.
Say thank you too!
lol
I don't want that
Why don't we just have the mod of the game decide if they are cool with thanks or not?
LOL
Other than that, I like the feature. Not in games, it'll work great, say in the Player Signup list thing. We could just have people post like "/in for all basics" then all players who also want that can thank that post. Same for the other game types.
Other things that aren't just the basic game types (Games with more than 20 players) can just be a new post which people can like.
Edit: The think I don't like about it is that it sends you to a new screen when I thank posts. It really should be like a 'like' on FB, instead of sending you to a new page.
Who, exactly, do you think you are??
I am VERY SPECIFICALLY advocating against this unwanted addition to the Mafia subforum FOR THE BETTERMENT of the the Mafia Subforum, and you have the audacity to underhandedly attack me for it? Classy, coming from a MTGS Moderator.
EDIT, MOVED: Maybe I shouldn't have said anything about this. Apparently it has turned into, for some, a subtle way to troll me instead of speaking to the merits of the argument in a logical manner.
So, to clarify here, you are advocating:
A) that the Council should get involved in petty squables about something that can simply be declared illegal?
B) You are trying to suggest that PMs and Editting, which are invisible to the player base in a game are at all like this new "Thank You" system, which is in plain view?
In a nutshell^^^
EDIT: I've PMd Arcadic, which I likely should have done in the first place. That being said, please continue the debate. Nothing to see here.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
In light of that, I don't think anyone cares to read the above. Delete?
We're all mature enough to stop this form happening, so I don't see a need for a preventative ban.
scumbag
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My feelings, for what they're worth, are that it is at the discretion of the game mod to ban thanking. If the mod chooses not to allow it, then it's not allowed. We can be adults about this without it needing to be banned by the council. (In a M:tG related example, most people do not build 5 colour Dingus Egg/Armageddon mass LD decks because people find it unsporting. If your playgroup decides to not allow it, then it's not allowed, but that doesn't mean Sheldon and the RC should ban mass LD.)
/barn this forever. It seems the first thing to do whenever anything happens anymore is to invoke the council. This one should be left up to the mods of each game, and in those games where thanking is allowed, the players. If someone makes a big deal of it during a game and you don't like it, ignore them or lynch them.
That goes for a lot of other issues that may crop up as well.