HAHA. Wow... There's no way that you can really believe that AI thinks he's nailed every scum.
More votes on RiP, please. Heck, I'm half temped just to attack you now...
Did you see who I was responding too? AE thinks that AI believes he has the entire scum team nailed - at least that's the logic he's using to explain why he's not scum.
Does anyone even read anymore, or do they just skim?
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
Did you see who I was responding too? AE thinks that AI believes he has the entire scum team nailed - at least that's the logic he's using to explain why he's not scum.
Does anyone even read anymore, or do they just skim?
Fine enough. To be fair, you gave no indication that it was a response to AE. I interpreted it as an original thought in response to AI's list.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Fine enough. To be fair, you gave no indication that it was a response to AE. I interpreted it as an original thought in response to AI's list.
It was directly following, but there were no quote tags. Go check it out. 193 AE tells AI "look, our lusts are close, that makes me town unless all your scumreads are wrong, right?" 198 he tells me he'd never distance and bus the entire team - as if AI's list tagged the entire scumteam already. It's scummy as heck, and I'll put together a good read on AE and vezok tonight, but I think they're scumbuddies. Vez panicked when he saw early votes on his pal, and has been distracting the town, AE has been buddying.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
It was directly following, but there were no quote tags. Go check it out. 193 AE tells AI "look, our lusts are close, that makes me town unless all your scumreads are wrong, right?" 198 he tells me he'd never distance and bus the entire team - as if AI's list tagged the entire scumteam already. It's scummy as heck, and I'll put together a good read on AE and vezok tonight, but I think they're scumbuddies. Vez panicked when he saw early votes on his pal, and has been distracting the town, AE has been buddying.
How about a good case. I'll await it.
I've been buddying Vez? Include that in your case also.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
Yes I know the roles in it. They're posted on the front page.
Can someone tell me if this is just a typical level of play?
P.S. Burden of "proof" is on no one. This isn't a logical debate. This is scumhunting. I explained why he read scum to me, if he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it. I'm not playing that game where you go back and forth and back and forth on what constitutes a scumread. It's IIoA, and you can never convince scum they're scum - they were convinced by a moderator PM at the start of the game. If the town finds my reasoning convincing, they'll vote with me, if the town finds it unconvincing, they'll say that, but the scum themselves? They already know if it's true or not... what point does debating with them serve?
I disagree. Strongly. You're trying to convince X other players to agree with your view. In order to do so, you have to win the "logical debate" showing that your belief the person is scum to get the necessary majority. Now, I think what you mean is that a burden of proof doesn't exist to prove it to yourself; which is true. I get gut reads all the time and subsequently have to form the case after the fact. It happened with Seppel most recently in Powerful Wizard Mafia, only I couldn't put it into words on Day 1 and he lived an extra day as scum.
Basically, it's the best way to avoid active lurking ever. You spend most of your posts posting things about possible setups, what the town could do, how many people could die, etc. Especially in theme games, you can spend near the entire game posting information.
As the game rolls on, you can get really indepth. Possible scum suspect? Do an ISO and hand out post numbers with short summaries, then ask people's opinions. Provide vote counts with townie and scum names highlighted. Basically, INSTEAD of using this information to make an analysis, just provide it, watch which way the weathervanes are blowing, and then back whichever one protects you and your scumbuddies. You can earn tons and tons of town cred as an active and helpful poster without ever taking too many real stances on who is scum, what the night kills mean, and who reads town.
Nothing horrible about my reasons. Nothing forced, nothing insincere. I laid out my problems with your starting posts - and if those were supposed to be 'joking around', even for the RVS, that wasn't apparent. You were talking seriously about game mechanics and your tone and word selection betray your intentions.
You failed to address the two major posts in question:
We can only send one kill a day. So we can't move on to the next. We should take 2-3 scummy people. Have only the towniest players submit kills on them. But the day won't end till the deadline or when all kills have been submitted.
I had voted Arcadic over Guardman for his subtle push for a gil claim. Its very obvious why claims are bad in this game.
Ok.
Quote from AE »
I switched to RPhoenix for the arrogant way of throwing votes around. He? would be a good place to start in looking for Garland. Doesn't seem to care whos getting strung up. Wants to get to night.
Stop. How does this compute with your own thoughts about playing as Garland:
If I was Garland I'd be walking around on eggshells, blending in. No way would I want attention.
I don't get your reasoning, here, about why you think he's a good place to start looking for Garland.
Quote from AE »
AI I'm reading as town.
Anaklusmos I questioned his barning of you. To see if he had a handle on the vote or if he was just going with the flow. Waiting for a reply.
AI is being AI, although less arrogant than I usually recall.
As far as Anak is concerned - I'm not sure what kind of answer you expect, there.
Quote from AE »
Reya I just ignored. Don't even know what she was getting at with that vote. But while I'm on the subject.
@reya- Boat meaning wagon? So do you disagree with my take on RP? And do you agree with her calling me scum because "oh, I was joking, you shouldn't be so serious." ?
HAHA. Wow... There's no way that you can really believe that AI thinks he's nailed every scum.
More votes on RiP, please. Heck, I'm half temped just to attack you now...
The confusion around AI's post has since been cleared up, but I'm not seeing RiP as the slam-dunk case you are. I'm seeing someone trying to establish himself as an experienced player and leader - he reminds me of ZDS, who I have a terrible habit of always seeing as scum.
Still not completely off my radar, but there are bigger fish to fry.
I don't think vez is scum, and he certainly didn't claim it like some people think way back. I'm not saying he is town, I have him in Neutral, like I usually do with him. He is just impossible to read because its vez.
In other news, holy crap Vote RP. Every post of his that I read just had me confused, none of it seems to make sense. Add that to him responding to people with more stuff that is just random. Top scum nomination here.
AI is still town, with Keifru joining the party.
@whoever asked why I thought AE was Garland. Because he was, artificially it seemed, trying to be funny and random, which appeared to be really out of character for him. I thought him being Garland would give him the motivation to do that.
No, you were buddying AI. Rather blatantly too. But another misrepresentation and 'misunderstanding' from you. Not surprised.
Vez... lol.
I'll put together a good read on AE and vezok tonight, but I think they're scumbuddies. Vez panicked when he saw early votes on his pal, and has been distracting the town, AE has been buddying
Misrep? You see how I thought you meant Vez? You talk about him, how he panicked and tried to distract the town and go right to me saying I'm buddying. Your such scum here. Pushing a big smear its ridiculous.
Misrep? You see how I thought you meant Vez? You talk about him, how he panicked and tried to distract the town and go right to me saying I'm buddying. Your such scum here. Pushing a big smear its ridiculous.
Yes. I say you're buddying. You're finding people and "making friends" with them for no real good reason. It's a scummy behavior, because at this stage any townie will have no idea who is scum and who is town. Scum, on the other hand, have a perfect idea who is scum and who is town - and town who like them are valuable.
Both me and AI suspect you, but you chose AI as the stronger target, and are making friends with him. "See how good your scumlist matches mine? See, we're on the same side!"
Me, you've decided is the newbie and the weak target because I'm aggressive, and some people don't like aggressive play. So you decide to go "Oh look at the scum driving this wagon, I is soooooo town."
It'll screw you if they do lynch me and I flip town of course, but that's really a problem for another day, isn't it? Plenty of scum have wandered out of lynching town before, right?
@DHY: My play is aggressive. Not scummy. People mistake them, because aggressive players raise people's hackles, and scummy players should raise people's hackles, or so they think. In reality the best scum players make friends really well and strategically lurk. But that's really beside the point - how you can tell the difference? Nothing I do hurts the town.
I'll post about the logic/debating class stuff later, but lets just say I've followed enough red herrings of "well, but there's just not enough evidence!" to listen to SCUM saying there's not enough evidence. Town saying it is different, but you never ever convince scum that there's enough evidence to call them scum or lynch them. I mean really, what happens? You present enough evidence and the scum goes "well okay, yeah, that's enough evidence, I'm scum?" They protest all the way to the lynch, in most cases.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
@DYH: My play is aggressive. Not scummy. People mistake them, because aggressive players raise people's hackles, and scummy players should raise people's hackles, or so they think. In reality the best scum players make friends really well and strategically lurk. But that's really beside the point - how you can tell the difference? Nothing I do hurts the town.
Right, which is why I compared your playstyle to ZDS - he's aggressive and antagonistic, and subsequently gets under my skin. It's the reason I haven't jumped to conclusions here about you, because obviously ZDS isn't scum every time I play with him - i.e. I can't read him very well.
Quote from Rising Phoenix »
I'll post about the logic/debating class stuff later, but lets just say I've followed enough red herrings of "well, but there's just not enough evidence!" to listen to SCUM saying there's not enough evidence. Town saying it is different, but you never ever convince scum that there's enough evidence to call them scum or lynch them. I mean really, what happens? You present enough evidence and the scum goes "well okay, yeah, that's enough evidence, I'm scum?" They protest all the way to the lynch, in most cases.
But again, you're not trying to convince the person you're attacking they're scum, you're trying to convince the masses, which is made up primarily of townies. I'm not sure we're on the same page with this argument, nor that it's going to be productive to work it out here. This is more theory than scumhunting at this point.
@AE: You missed a couple things I directed at you (the Gardland piece and the arrogance one) that I'd like to have your thoughts on, please.
BTW, I almost feel bad running this out there, because it may or may not help the town, but ideal serial killer play involves nothing resembling walking on eggshells. I probably won't go into it this early, because it's probably helping the wrong team way too much. Ask me again on day 2/3 when it's too late for them to change their playstyle.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
The problem is that you stop here, AE. Let me show you again what I said:
You failed to address the two major posts in question:
There's nothing joking around about this post-
nor this one.
I see the issue. Yes when it came to game mechanics as two people assked questions I answered. No reason to joke around when trying to figure out how to proceed with the game. Is the issue that I joked around or that you believed I said it all was a joke? I know its hard to relay into typed words but I thought it was clear that those first few posts were of me joking around and messing with AI in the subsequent one.
Stop. How does this compute with your own thoughts about playing as Garland:
It doesn't.
I don't get your reasoning, here, about why you think he's a good place to start looking for Garland.
RP are you newer to this site? I thought you were.
When I was first an SK I was eager to move into night so I could work some magic. Being eager to move into night will bring attention to yourself, something I would not want being an SK.
As far as Anak is concerned - I'm not sure what kind of answer you expect, there.
I just want him to point out the slips that he agrees with. Or was that just a convenient way to get on the wagon. Ask Zindabad, I hate when people make stuff up or don't know what they're talking about.
I don't believe I have ever seen you play with such arrogance - the question is what's the driving force?
We haven't been in many games. Ask around, I play with a harder edge now.
I'm new to playing mafia on this site. Never realized this site had it, in point of fact, until an offhand comment at MafiaScum clued me in. Which probably makes me clueless, but whatever, I don't post outside the limited forum.
As for SK play, REALLY apparently have to save that one a day or two. A good SK is a force of nature.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
I see the issue. Yes when it came to game mechanics as two people assked questions I answered. No reason to joke around when trying to figure out how to proceed with the game. Is the issue that I joked around or that you believed I said it all was a joke? I know its hard to relay into typed words but I thought it was clear that those first few posts were of me joking around and messing with AI in the subsequent one.
My initial problem was exactly what I pointed out, and have recently pointed out again - the words you chose to use in those posts, starting from the beginning (where yes, I can see you were playful) through the two I recently quoted being the most problematic. Now I'm trying to figure out if you really didn't understand where I was coming from, or just playing dumb.
Quote from AE »
It doesn't.
RP are you newer to this site? I thought you were.
When I was first an SK I was eager to move into night so I could work some magic. Being eager to move into night will bring attention to yourself, something I would not want being an SK.
But would you ever want that (regardless of alignment)?
And how does it [his experience here] have anything to do with your inconsistency in thought pattern?
Quote from AE »
I just want him to point out the slips that he agrees with. Or was that just a convenient way to get on the wagon. Ask Zindabad, I hate when people make stuff up or don't know what they're talking about.
Fair enough, I won't say what I'm thinking, I'll let Anak answer.
Quote from AE »
We haven't been in many games. Ask around, I play with a harder edge now.
Also fair; last I can recall I remember you playing the role of AEzWoLG in the original Amistarian.
My initial problem was exactly what I pointed out, and have recently pointed out again - the words you chose to use in those posts, starting from the beginning (where yes, I can see you were playful) through the two I recently quoted being the most problematic. Now I'm trying to figure out if you really didn't understand where I was coming from, or just playing dumb.
Guess I didn't understand. Think I still don't, are you content for now or do you still want an answer to something.
But would you ever want that (regardless of alignment)?
No
And how does it [his experience here] have anything to do with your inconsistency in thought pattern?
Didn't know I had an inconsistent thought pattern. But if he was new maybe he'd be excited to get into night so he could use some abilities.
Also fair; last I can recall I remember you playing the role of AEzWoLG in the original Amistarian.
See, excited to use abilities at night. Something I've learned from.
Will elaborate more when I get back from my class later tonight. But for right now:
Not interested at all in Rising Phoenix. A couple things he said were pretty bad, but I'm getting a sense of genuine conviction from his posts that I wouldn't expect from him as scum. I'm reading him as town.
Currently most interested in Anak, Drey, and possibly Heartwork and Reya.
After reading through the last couple pages, I'm not really in favour of a RisingPhoenix lynch. He's got some sound logic about a lot of stuff, and I get the feeling a lot of people are trying to lynch him simply because he's a relative unknown and is pressuring a lot of people.
The thing about lynching players like that is that if they're town, they're the most useful town players, because applying pressure to scum is always a good thing.
Will elaborate more when I get back from my class later tonight. But for right now:
Not interested at all in Rising Phoenix. A couple things he said were pretty bad, but I'm getting a sense of genuine conviction from his posts that I wouldn't expect from him as scum. I'm reading him as town.
Currently most interested in Anak, Drey, and possibly Heartwork and Reya.
I dont like this post at all.
this is DM's first real post in thread and the first thing he tries to do is discredit a ligit wagon on RP.
The he tries to throw pressure on DRey, who is a total noob that while having A bad post is not the right person to be focusing on right now,
Anuk, who is town IMO,
then he barns the pressure on Heartwork and Reya, which at least one of these is bus pressure. (leaning Heart)
I had voted Arcadic over Guardman for his subtle push for a gil claim. Its very obvious why claims are bad in this game.
I switched to RPhoenix for the arrogant way of throwing votes around. He? would be a good place to start in looking for Garland. Doesn't seem to care whos getting strung up. Wants to get to night.
AI I'm reading as town.
Anaklusmos I questioned his barning of you. To see if he had a handle on the vote or if he was just going with the flow. Waiting for a reply.
Reya I just ignored. Don't even know what sheHE was getting at with that vote. But while I'm on the subject.
@reya- Boat meaning wagon? So do you disagree with my take on RP? And do you agree with her calling me scum because "oh, I was joking, you shouldn't be so serious." ?
:-/:-/:-/:-/:-/:-/:-/:-/
Boat=wagon. Something i made up in basic 31 from the song "i'm on a boat"
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Yeah RP and you are the scummiest in my opinion I really don't like your defensiveness in an obviously joking (by joking i mean not very serious) accusation.
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Fun fact: AE has been in 9/21 of Mafia games I've played!
Why did you suggest a Gil claim here:
I think this is why several people have you on their scum lists.
Thx for the list, i'll have to skim some of his town games.
I suggested a STARTING Gil claim because i felt it the best soft claim. Do i still support this? No. It was a bad idea. The only reason i suggested any soft claim was because of the wonky lynch mechanic we are faced with plus the fact that everyone is essentially a mini-sk.
I'm not concerned with being on people's scumlists. It is odd that you would point it out to me however.
I'm fine whenever people want to start attacking RiP. He's done nothing but dig his grave deeper with his last few posts.
Still like my vote on AE. His defensiveness irks me and his play is different from any game I've played with him. Not to mention some of his defensiveness reeks of flailing.
There are also different from when I played with him, possible changing his style.{See harder Edge comment.}
FOS Heartwork
You unvoted why? Because everyone else did? Why no vote if you have scummy targets, you seemed to have no trouble hopping onto wagons before.
man, that's confusing. i still don't know which of them is scummier, but surely both of them can't be scum (or they would not fight each other so hard).
i'm totally at a loss here, i hope we can correctly detect which one it's the scum so we don't mislynch.
Okay, seriously, no. There is no reason, no reason for town to jump to a possible scum's defense by hypothesizing they're a role that cannot possibly be in the game. Town would at least check to see if there's some possibility of Jesters being in the setup.
Yeah...And on the other hand...Vezo doesn't read.
.
Maybe this is bog standard VP? I dunno. I hate excusing intensely scummy behavior with the phrase "well, he's always really scummy, so that makes it fine."
We have since gone on to figure that is the way to do it. Attack one person and then we should have the luxury of turning to the next scummiest person on the list. This is very benificial to the town. The scum have to follow in line. Its during the day so we'd know of anyone trying to go against this process. i.e. not attacking when called upon to do so.
Who do you think is town? Is this referring to yourself?
There are also different from when I played with him, possible changing his style.{See harder Edge comment.}
What?
They could both be scum or neither of them.
Yeah...And on the other hand...Vezo doesn't read.
.
Roles are totally on the first page.
Alignments Buffs and starting attributes are not.
He has some tells.
But yeah he is always really scummy.
So a plan where Attacks are guided by the town?
True.
I was refering to me.
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Yeah RP and you are the scummiest in my opinion I really don't like your defensiveness in an obviously joking (by joking i mean not very serious) accusation.
Can you explain this one to me? I can't make heads or tails of it.
Anyway, the case against Archmage Eternal
FiPost #25
Go on, read it. He's hyper defensive on his third post. "Voting for me by post 3? What's going on? How can you do this?" It's still fairly RVS, votes on you are fairly meaningless then. Actually, in this game, they're fairly meaningless overall - Attacks are what lynches.
Post #30
He suggests limiting the number of attacks during the day to 'only the towniest of people.' This is silly. Off-target attacks (since they're made in thread) are just going to draw town heat, and scum are certain to have more options at night than town. Yet he wants to limit the attacks the town can use to a subset of the town.
post #35
Again the defensiveness. Again the anger. Why are townies voting for you such a big deal? If you're not being anti-town, they'll probably stop, if scum are hopping on it, you should welcome a wagon - see who the scum are, see their communications, etc. Wagons provide tons of information. But he deflects the wagon again. Hard to be interested in information when you know who the town is, right?
Post #135
100 post gap here, and he's back. Two very quick wagons? Okay, that's fine. Good information. But instead he's worried. Anxious. He's already noted that there's no possibility of an accidental lynch. None. So how are the wagons anti-town? They're not, they give away information about possible scum. What faction doesn't want that again?
Post #137
Infamous 'fooling around and having fun.' Look at the posts above. How many are fooling around? How many are having fun? How stressed and fake does this interaction feel? Scum have to check what they're doing before they do it. Their interactions are faked. His interactions, his 'casual interactions.' Do they feel faked and forced? Read his earlier posts. Is that faked and forced? I say yes. He's spent every post since then trying to retract this statement because of how ridiculous it is. Qualify it, limit it, reduce the damage it can do. Nothing can reduce the damage it can do - his default response to me was to lie to me. Post #193
He tells Asian Invasion "Look, we have the same scumreads. You know yours are excellent, why would this be except that I'm town?
He then attacks me. He thinks because I haven't defended myself I'm a newbie and an easy target. I can go into that one if anyone is curious - long story short, I don't really care about bandwagons on me until they hit L-2 or L-1, I just mine em for information. They bore me. Post #198
Then this... just read this. He tells me straight up "LOL Why would I bus and distance from all my partners, that would make me terribad scum!" Asian Invasion's list most likely doesn't have all the scum as 'scummy.' If it does, props man, that's mad skills. I know you have one scumread wrong though, so I'd kinda doubt it.
Post #206
More BS. He's making stuff up about my argument. He's clearly buddying AI in #193. It's all "hey my friend, you're so smart and have most of a good list, and I agree with you! Lets go hit that guy over there, he's so obviously scummy, and look he's one of your top scumreads!" So he pretends to think it's about Vezok, to deflect people's attention away from his blatant buddying.
Post #211
I called him on it, so it's all a "smear job" and "lies" and that sort of thing. Well, you read it. You tell me. Smear job? Lies? Or just defensive, overeager scum?
Now, wanna see it get interesting? Here we go. READ BELOW.
Post #215
What's with the sudden friendliness towards me? The sudden soft retraction of his attacks without actually retracting his attacks? Does he want ME personally to feel friendlier towards him? Oh no. It's one better. He thinks my lynch is going through. He thinks that I'm going to die. And he knows I will flip town. He's planning for it. And he'll be like "oh, he's from a different meta, he must not know what we're doing, I didn't really suspect him too hard." Because who wants to be the leader of a town wagon, after all? Certainly not scum.
Post #218
Again, look. He's distancing himself from his own arguments. Without retracting them. Because he knows what will happen when I flip. Scum have no questions about flips (ignoring Serial Killer, but his misrepresentation of how a Serial Killer plays helps them keep the SK alive - then again, he might just have no clue, it's a null tell).
TLDR? I feel fairly certain I have caught scum. I can't be 100%. I'm not a sane cop, I'm not scum, I don't know the setup. But Archmage is SCUM.
Want me to put my vote behind it?
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Want me to do one better? If enough townies are willing, I'll be in the attack, in any position choosen. I think he is scum. There is no pressure wagons (which I do participate in), no RVS, no fooling around. I will help kill him.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
I got a lot of bad mojo from that last post, Heartwork.
Look at the post directly above this one. Scum don't put together PBPAs that good against other players. I just don't buy the RP wagon right now. Maybe I'll end up looking awful if he gets lynched later and flips scum, but for now I'm way more comfortable with a lynch on AE, for all of the reasons given in RP's PBPA.
I'm gonna state this right now I will watch the game for signs of scumminess and I will change my vote when i need to but I am definitely gonna attack vezok at the day's end if things stay the way they are, vote count be damned
Look at the post directly above this one. Scum don't put together PBPAs that good against other players. I just don't buy the RP wagon right now. Maybe I'll end up looking awful if he gets lynched later and flips scum, but for now I'm way more comfortable with a lynch on AE, for all of the reasons given in RP's PBPA.
vote AE
You still didn't answer my question. Which players want to lynch him because he's a relative unknown/pressure-giving player?
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
In other news, holy crap Vote RP. Every post of his that I read just had me confused, none of it seems to make sense. Add that to him responding to people with more stuff that is just random. Top scum nomination here.
Vote RP because he confuses you? Seriously?
Heartwood's last 2 posts have been horrible.
[quote=Heartwork;/comments/10723601]Look at the post directly above this one. Scum don't put together PBPAs that good against other players. I just don't buy the RP wagon right now. Maybe I'll end up looking awful if he gets lynched later and flips scum, but for now I'm way more comfortable with a lynch on AE, for all of the reasons given in RP's PBPA.
vote AE
"Scum don't put together PBPAs that good". I wish we had a barfing emoticon.
Though I will say I haven't read RP's case yet because I need to study for a midterm.
I am leaning town on RP, though I don't like how HW (seemingly) followed his vezo vote and his AE vote.
Also do not like Reya. I recall not liking her AE vote and multiple smilies = scum.
In other news, holy crap Vote RP. Every post of his that I read just had me confused, none of it seems to make sense. Add that to him responding to people with more stuff that is just random. Top scum nomination here.
Vote RP because he confuses you? Seriously?
Heartwood's last 2 posts have been horrible.
"Scum don't put together PBPAs that good". I wish we had a barfing emoticon.
Though I will say I haven't read RP's case yet because I need to study for a midterm.
I am leaning town on RP, though I don't like how HW (seemingly) followed his vezo vote and his AE vote.
Also do not like Reya. I recall not liking herHIS AE vote and multiple smilies = scum.
:-/Do i have to do this everyother post. I should change my name to.
**** YOU ALL I'M A MAN
also whats not to like about my vote. Also I'm a smily guy generally.
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In my defense, your avatar is a female, as is your name, and you bring cookies, and you use smilies and in a few posts you spelt things like a young teenager.
The first thing that pops to mind is a 13 year old white girl with braces.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
Look at the post directly above this one. Scum don't put together PBPAs that good against other players. I just don't buy the RP wagon right now. Maybe I'll end up looking awful if he gets lynched later and flips scum, but for now I'm way more comfortable with a lynch on AE, for all of the reasons given in RP's PBPA.
vote AE
You cannot possibly be more wrong. Scum attempt to mimic townie behavior. If a townie would make a PBPA 'that good', so would a scum. The act itself has zero bearing on RP's alignment.
In my defense, your avatar is a female, as is your name, and you bring cookies, and you use smilies and in a few posts you spelt things like a young teenager.
The first thing that pops to mind is a 13 year old white girl with braces.
That is the funniest thing I've read in months. Definitely sig-worthy for Reya, if I were her him.
I suggested a STARTING Gil claim because i felt it the best soft claim. Do i still support this? No. It was a bad idea. The only reason i suggested any soft claim was because of the wonky lynch mechanic we are faced with plus the fact that everyone is essentially a mini-sk.
I'm not concerned with being on people's scumlists. It is odd that you would point it out to me however.
This is not a scummy response. I feel a little better about you.
In my defense, your avatar is a female, as is your name, and you bring cookies, and you use smilies and in a few posts you spelt things like a young teenager.
The first thing that pops to mind is a 13 year old white girl with braces.
Sig'd.
I'd like for everyone to place their votes and for the stragglers to finally get caught up, then I'd like to start Attacking. We don't want to hit the Deadline before we're used up all of our Attacks.
Note: If you're town and you're being Attacked to death, don't use any Potions. That just wastes the town's lynch power.
Yeah, so you read it? No? 'bout what I figured. It's long, if I didn't spoiler tag it, half the town wouldn't read it.
In other news, holy crap: Archmage Eternal is Garland hunting. I just realized that is what's been bothering me on and off. He's hunting for GARLAND. SCUM.
(see, this is the problem - the people who don't know why that's scummy as hell are the people who will never read my case )
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
AI: 26 days until deadline, we have multiple people who haven't posted and you want to start quicklynching? FOS
Yeah, so you read it? No? 'bout what I figured. It's long, if I didn't spoiler tag it, half the town wouldn't read it.
In other news, holy crap: Archmage Eternal is Garland hunting. I just realized that is what's been bothering me on and off. He's hunting for GARLAND. SCUM.
(see, this is the problem - the people who don't know why that's scummy as hell are the people who will never read my case )
I think the correct phrase is... hypocritical and self-absorbed.
I'd add more but I'd probably get another flame infraction.
If this forum had Greasers, Phoenix, Commons and Semantics would be the leaders of the gang and every time they commented on something they would do a synchronized finger snap then smoke a cigarette.
EBWoP2: SK-hunting is profitable to the mafia in the midgame but ideally the mafia want the SK to live for a while and soften up the town before getting the town to lynch him. In this kind of setup where everyone has some vigging power, the SK is even more vulnerable once exposed.
HAHA. Wow... There's no way that you can really believe that AI thinks he's nailed every scum.
More votes on RiP, please. Heck, I'm half temped just to attack you now...
Did you see who I was responding too? AE thinks that AI believes he has the entire scum team nailed - at least that's the logic he's using to explain why he's not scum.
Does anyone even read anymore, or do they just skim?
Fine enough. To be fair, you gave no indication that it was a response to AE. I interpreted it as an original thought in response to AI's list.
And I think that's it. Although that has to be a game I forgot.
I'll be back with the answer.
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It was directly following, but there were no quote tags. Go check it out. 193 AE tells AI "look, our lusts are close, that makes me town unless all your scumreads are wrong, right?" 198 he tells me he'd never distance and bus the entire team - as if AI's list tagged the entire scumteam already. It's scummy as heck, and I'll put together a good read on AE and vezok tonight, but I think they're scumbuddies. Vez panicked when he saw early votes on his pal, and has been distracting the town, AE has been buddying.
How about a good case. I'll await it.
I've been buddying Vez? Include that in your case also.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Sorry but in general I don't care about my scumbudies at all. In every game I am in I just try to survive till the end by all means.
Also Basic 19 was my first game and I was scum there. But I was more than horrible there so I don't think you can count that to meta.
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No, you were buddying AI. Rather blatantly too. But another misrepresentation and 'misunderstanding' from you. Not surprised.
Vez... lol.
I disagree. Strongly. You're trying to convince X other players to agree with your view. In order to do so, you have to win the "logical debate" showing that your belief the person is scum to get the necessary majority. Now, I think what you mean is that a burden of proof doesn't exist to prove it to yourself; which is true. I get gut reads all the time and subsequently have to form the case after the fact. It happened with Seppel most recently in Powerful Wizard Mafia, only I couldn't put it into words on Day 1 and he lived an extra day as scum.
I like this term and will probably adopt it.
The problem is that you stop here, AE. Let me show you again what I said:
You failed to address the two major posts in question:
There's nothing joking around about this post-
nor this one.
Ok.
Stop. How does this compute with your own thoughts about playing as Garland:
I don't get your reasoning, here, about why you think he's a good place to start looking for Garland.
AI is being AI, although less arrogant than I usually recall.
As far as Anak is concerned - I'm not sure what kind of answer you expect, there.
Okay...
The confusion around AI's post has since been cleared up, but I'm not seeing RiP as the slam-dunk case you are. I'm seeing someone trying to establish himself as an experienced player and leader - he reminds me of ZDS, who I have a terrible habit of always seeing as scum.
I don't believe I have ever seen you play with such arrogance - the question is what's the driving force?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Still not completely off my radar, but there are bigger fish to fry.
I don't think vez is scum, and he certainly didn't claim it like some people think way back. I'm not saying he is town, I have him in Neutral, like I usually do with him. He is just impossible to read because its vez.
In other news, holy crap Vote RP. Every post of his that I read just had me confused, none of it seems to make sense. Add that to him responding to people with more stuff that is just random. Top scum nomination here.
AI is still town, with Keifru joining the party.
@whoever asked why I thought AE was Garland. Because he was, artificially it seemed, trying to be funny and random, which appeared to be really out of character for him. I thought him being Garland would give him the motivation to do that.
Misrep? You see how I thought you meant Vez? You talk about him, how he panicked and tried to distract the town and go right to me saying I'm buddying. Your such scum here. Pushing a big smear its ridiculous.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Yes. I say you're buddying. You're finding people and "making friends" with them for no real good reason. It's a scummy behavior, because at this stage any townie will have no idea who is scum and who is town. Scum, on the other hand, have a perfect idea who is scum and who is town - and town who like them are valuable.
Both me and AI suspect you, but you chose AI as the stronger target, and are making friends with him. "See how good your scumlist matches mine? See, we're on the same side!"
Me, you've decided is the newbie and the weak target because I'm aggressive, and some people don't like aggressive play. So you decide to go "Oh look at the scum driving this wagon, I is soooooo town."
It'll screw you if they do lynch me and I flip town of course, but that's really a problem for another day, isn't it? Plenty of scum have wandered out of lynching town before, right?
@DHY: My play is aggressive. Not scummy. People mistake them, because aggressive players raise people's hackles, and scummy players should raise people's hackles, or so they think. In reality the best scum players make friends really well and strategically lurk. But that's really beside the point - how you can tell the difference? Nothing I do hurts the town.
I'll post about the logic/debating class stuff later, but lets just say I've followed enough red herrings of "well, but there's just not enough evidence!" to listen to SCUM saying there's not enough evidence. Town saying it is different, but you never ever convince scum that there's enough evidence to call them scum or lynch them. I mean really, what happens? You present enough evidence and the scum goes "well okay, yeah, that's enough evidence, I'm scum?" They protest all the way to the lynch, in most cases.
Right, which is why I compared your playstyle to ZDS - he's aggressive and antagonistic, and subsequently gets under my skin. It's the reason I haven't jumped to conclusions here about you, because obviously ZDS isn't scum every time I play with him - i.e. I can't read him very well.
But again, you're not trying to convince the person you're attacking they're scum, you're trying to convince the masses, which is made up primarily of townies. I'm not sure we're on the same page with this argument, nor that it's going to be productive to work it out here. This is more theory than scumhunting at this point.
@AE: You missed a couple things I directed at you (the Gardland piece and the arrogance one) that I'd like to have your thoughts on, please.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I see the issue. Yes when it came to game mechanics as two people assked questions I answered. No reason to joke around when trying to figure out how to proceed with the game. Is the issue that I joked around or that you believed I said it all was a joke? I know its hard to relay into typed words but I thought it was clear that those first few posts were of me joking around and messing with AI in the subsequent one.
It doesn't.
RP are you newer to this site? I thought you were.
When I was first an SK I was eager to move into night so I could work some magic. Being eager to move into night will bring attention to yourself, something I would not want being an SK.
I just want him to point out the slips that he agrees with. Or was that just a convenient way to get on the wagon. Ask Zindabad, I hate when people make stuff up or don't know what they're talking about.
We haven't been in many games. Ask around, I play with a harder edge now.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
As for SK play, REALLY apparently have to save that one a day or two. A good SK is a force of nature.
My initial problem was exactly what I pointed out, and have recently pointed out again - the words you chose to use in those posts, starting from the beginning (where yes, I can see you were playful) through the two I recently quoted being the most problematic. Now I'm trying to figure out if you really didn't understand where I was coming from, or just playing dumb.
But would you ever want that (regardless of alignment)?
And how does it [his experience here] have anything to do with your inconsistency in thought pattern?
Fair enough, I won't say what I'm thinking, I'll let Anak answer.
Also fair; last I can recall I remember you playing the role of AEzWoLG in the original Amistarian.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Guess I didn't understand. Think I still don't, are you content for now or do you still want an answer to something.
No
Didn't know I had an inconsistent thought pattern. But if he was new maybe he'd be excited to get into night so he could use some abilities.
See, excited to use abilities at night. Something I've learned from.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Not interested at all in Rising Phoenix. A couple things he said were pretty bad, but I'm getting a sense of genuine conviction from his posts that I wouldn't expect from him as scum. I'm reading him as town.
Currently most interested in Anak, Drey, and possibly Heartwork and Reya.
The thing about lynching players like that is that if they're town, they're the most useful town players, because applying pressure to scum is always a good thing.
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Extended: GGElves!GG
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Which players? Supporting evidence.
------------
I got a lot of bad mojo from that last post, Heartwork.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I dont like this post at all.
this is DM's first real post in thread and the first thing he tries to do is discredit a ligit wagon on RP.
The he tries to throw pressure on DRey, who is a total noob that while having A bad post is not the right person to be focusing on right now,
Anuk, who is town IMO,
then he barns the pressure on Heartwork and Reya, which at least one of these is bus pressure. (leaning Heart)
Bad form DM.
Unvote. Vote Dancing Mad
The Family
Boat=wagon. Something i made up in basic 31 from the song "i'm on a boat"
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RisingPhoenix (8): Talore; Keifru; altseal; Archmage Eternal; Arcadic; vezokpiraka; falkonn; Anaklusmos
vezokpiraka (3): poggydude; RisingPhoenix; DRey
Archmage Eternal (3): AsianInvasion; Guardman; Reya Cookiebringer
Reya Cookiebringer (1): altseal
AsianInvasion (1): falkonn
DRey (1): DYH
Dancing Mad (1): tordeck
Players not voting: mystery meat of doom; Dancing Mad; Deaths_Vampire; Shalako; Shinen; Zionite; Mars; Heartwork
With 24 alive, it is 13 to fake-lynch
Reminder: Deadline for Day 1 is set for Feburary 28th, 7:00 PM EST
Corrections are always welcome
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Its nice that you know who's voted unvoted, but you still really didn't explain why you unvoted.
Thx for the list, i'll have to skim some of his town games.
I suggested a STARTING Gil claim because i felt it the best soft claim. Do i still support this? No. It was a bad idea. The only reason i suggested any soft claim was because of the wonky lynch mechanic we are faced with plus the fact that everyone is essentially a mini-sk.
I'm not concerned with being on people's scumlists. It is odd that you would point it out to me however.
I'm fine whenever people want to start attacking RiP. He's done nothing but dig his grave deeper with his last few posts.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Who do you think is town? Is this referring to yourself?
There are also different from when I played with him, possible changing his style.{See harder Edge comment.}
What?
They could both be scum or neither of them.
Yeah...And on the other hand...Vezo doesn't read.
.
Roles are totally on the first page.
Alignments Buffs and starting attributes are not.
He has some tells.
But yeah he is always really scummy.
So a plan where Attacks are guided by the town?
True.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
The way you worded this makes it sound like you think the lonely island made up the concept of boat...
I was refering to me.
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Can you explain this one to me? I can't make heads or tails of it.
Anyway, the case against Archmage Eternal
FiPost #25
Go on, read it. He's hyper defensive on his third post. "Voting for me by post 3? What's going on? How can you do this?" It's still fairly RVS, votes on you are fairly meaningless then. Actually, in this game, they're fairly meaningless overall - Attacks are what lynches.
Post #30
He suggests limiting the number of attacks during the day to 'only the towniest of people.' This is silly. Off-target attacks (since they're made in thread) are just going to draw town heat, and scum are certain to have more options at night than town. Yet he wants to limit the attacks the town can use to a subset of the town.
post #35
Again the defensiveness. Again the anger. Why are townies voting for you such a big deal? If you're not being anti-town, they'll probably stop, if scum are hopping on it, you should welcome a wagon - see who the scum are, see their communications, etc. Wagons provide tons of information. But he deflects the wagon again. Hard to be interested in information when you know who the town is, right?
Post #135
100 post gap here, and he's back. Two very quick wagons? Okay, that's fine. Good information. But instead he's worried. Anxious. He's already noted that there's no possibility of an accidental lynch. None. So how are the wagons anti-town? They're not, they give away information about possible scum. What faction doesn't want that again?
Post #137
Infamous 'fooling around and having fun.' Look at the posts above. How many are fooling around? How many are having fun? How stressed and fake does this interaction feel? Scum have to check what they're doing before they do it. Their interactions are faked. His interactions, his 'casual interactions.' Do they feel faked and forced? Read his earlier posts. Is that faked and forced? I say yes. He's spent every post since then trying to retract this statement because of how ridiculous it is. Qualify it, limit it, reduce the damage it can do. Nothing can reduce the damage it can do - his default response to me was to lie to me.
Post #193
He tells Asian Invasion "Look, we have the same scumreads. You know yours are excellent, why would this be except that I'm town?
He then attacks me. He thinks because I haven't defended myself I'm a newbie and an easy target. I can go into that one if anyone is curious - long story short, I don't really care about bandwagons on me until they hit L-2 or L-1, I just mine em for information. They bore me.
Post #198
Then this... just read this. He tells me straight up "LOL Why would I bus and distance from all my partners, that would make me terribad scum!" Asian Invasion's list most likely doesn't have all the scum as 'scummy.' If it does, props man, that's mad skills. I know you have one scumread wrong though, so I'd kinda doubt it.
Post #206
More BS. He's making stuff up about my argument. He's clearly buddying AI in #193. It's all "hey my friend, you're so smart and have most of a good list, and I agree with you! Lets go hit that guy over there, he's so obviously scummy, and look he's one of your top scumreads!" So he pretends to think it's about Vezok, to deflect people's attention away from his blatant buddying.
Post #211
I called him on it, so it's all a "smear job" and "lies" and that sort of thing. Well, you read it. You tell me. Smear job? Lies? Or just defensive, overeager scum?
Now, wanna see it get interesting? Here we go. READ BELOW.
Post #215
What's with the sudden friendliness towards me? The sudden soft retraction of his attacks without actually retracting his attacks? Does he want ME personally to feel friendlier towards him? Oh no. It's one better. He thinks my lynch is going through. He thinks that I'm going to die. And he knows I will flip town. He's planning for it. And he'll be like "oh, he's from a different meta, he must not know what we're doing, I didn't really suspect him too hard." Because who wants to be the leader of a town wagon, after all? Certainly not scum.
Post #218
Again, look. He's distancing himself from his own arguments. Without retracting them. Because he knows what will happen when I flip. Scum have no questions about flips (ignoring Serial Killer, but his misrepresentation of how a Serial Killer plays helps them keep the SK alive - then again, he might just have no clue, it's a null tell).
TLDR? I feel fairly certain I have caught scum. I can't be 100%. I'm not a sane cop, I'm not scum, I don't know the setup. But Archmage is SCUM.
Want me to put my vote behind it?
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Want me to do one better? If enough townies are willing, I'll be in the attack, in any position choosen. I think he is scum. There is no pressure wagons (which I do participate in), no RVS, no fooling around. I will help kill him.
Look at the post directly above this one. Scum don't put together PBPAs that good against other players. I just don't buy the RP wagon right now. Maybe I'll end up looking awful if he gets lynched later and flips scum, but for now I'm way more comfortable with a lynch on AE, for all of the reasons given in RP's PBPA.
vote AE
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You still didn't answer my question. Which players want to lynch him because he's a relative unknown/pressure-giving player?
Guess you must've not liked the reiquarium scene.
"Scum don't put together PBPAs that good". I wish we had a barfing emoticon.
Though I will say I haven't read RP's case yet because I need to study for a midterm.
I am leaning town on RP, though I don't like how HW (seemingly) followed his vezo vote and his AE vote.
Also do not like Reya. I recall not liking her AE vote and multiple smilies = scum.
:-/Do i have to do this everyother post. I should change my name to.
**** YOU ALL I'M A MAN
also whats not to like about my vote. Also I'm a smily guy generally.
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The first thing that pops to mind is a 13 year old white girl with braces.
Yeah, this is 90% of why I can't be arsed to put together a case on most scum. Half the town is just going to do whatever and not read it.
You cannot possibly be more wrong. Scum attempt to mimic townie behavior. If a townie would make a PBPA 'that good', so would a scum. The act itself has zero bearing on RP's alignment.
That is the funniest thing I've read in months. Definitely sig-worthy for Reya, if I were
herhim.V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I don't even know a word for this.
Come on, people. When you sign up to play Mafia, you're making a commitment.
This is not a scummy response. I feel a little better about you.
Sig'd.
I'd like for everyone to place their votes and for the stragglers to finally get caught up, then I'd like to start Attacking. We don't want to hit the Deadline before we're used up all of our Attacks.
Note: If you're town and you're being Attacked to death, don't use any Potions. That just wastes the town's lynch power.
Yeah, so you read it? No? 'bout what I figured. It's long, if I didn't spoiler tag it, half the town wouldn't read it.
In other news, holy crap: Archmage Eternal is Garland hunting. I just realized that is what's been bothering me on and off. He's hunting for GARLAND. SCUM.
(see, this is the problem - the people who don't know why that's scummy as hell are the people who will never read my case )
I think the correct phrase is... hypocritical and self-absorbed.
I'd add more but I'd probably get another flame infraction.
So you've read the case then?
Didn't think so.
Seems like you don't think much in general.