Az claimed little flavor. He went thoughtful when he did it.
Thanks, didn't feel like digging through all those posts for it. Did he claim it earlier or later?
I found jobie's flavor claim though, and it fits nicely with the pattern of flavored townies from last game. So, dC might be onto something here.
Thanks, didn't feel like digging through all those posts for it. Did he claim it earlier or later?
I found jobie's flavor claim though, and it fits nicely with the pattern of flavored townies from last game. So, dC might be onto something here.
Maybe. My memory is he claimed it fairly early, but I haven't looked it up. It sticks out in my mind because he used his thoughtful voice instead of his playful one.
-Except that jobie claimed a burnout.
Jobie, whats the flavor of your bodyguard ability.
I suppose, I haven't claimed that. I cast a spell transferring the player into a safe vessel, if their body is killed, they will then be placed in my body, with their abilities in tact and my spirit floats away into the ether.
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I'm waiting for someone to agree with me that your post was disturbing.
What was the purpose of this line?
According to Seppel.
You're defending your predecessor's existence. As if to say that it's my fault that I didn't remember him doing anything when he was the one who didn't do anything relevant. Instead of you looking like scum, I do. Something's horribly wrong with this picture.
Hahahahahahaha die scum.
Unvote
Vote Dagger
Huh... you actually cracked.
So... if you were to unexpectedly die in the game, you wouldn't blame me, right?
What happened was, when he was faking a PR and gung-ho after myself and TFF, he was quite active. Since both wagons have died, his activity has fallen drastically.
I see. That's certainly something to be looked into during the weekend.
AI's losing the plot a bit here. I still can't see him as scum, but he's starting to play in a scattershot manner that makes me less certain about him.
Just because Az has 81 posts doesn't mean he's not scum or even that he's not lurking. See Ogre Mafia - when I replaced in, he was up around #6 top poster, thanks to a lot of EBWODP and fluffy nothing posts, especially at the start. Same thing in this game - many of his 81 posts are the "I love" nonsense he was posting at this game's opening. That said, it's not conclusive enough for me to want to pursue him at the moment.
But Az is in a better position as compared to say, atlseal, in your opinion?
He suggested that if one player claims that his or her action didn't target Jobie like it should have, we string Jobie up. As if nothing else is relevant in that decision. If that doesn't send chills up your spine, then something's wrong.
What else do you think would be relevant in that decision? Either Jobie's ability was as he said or it was not. You are offering another alternative? Like what?
This is getting ridiculous. If no one's going to listen, I'm going to stop wasting my time making cases and go back to being Seppel's second vote.
Unvote
Vote mystery meat of doom
No one said that they weren't going to listen. Only 2-3 players have responded since you made this post? But you immediately backtrack using the excuse that you would rather move your vote as Seppel sees fit? Whatever happened to personal responsibility for your own vote?
Not reading the game.
Attacking/voting/wagoning lots of players for little/no/bad/completely incorrect reasons, most likely due to the above.
Avoiding answering questions about the above.
Lying about his motivations for voting as shown in 596.
Having time for 81 posts, but not enough time to do more than skim other players' posts.
Finally admitting to only skimming after dodging the questions for an extended period of time.
His explanation not lining up with his play anyway, and other mindset issues as illustrated in 663.
-Basically, no signs of actual scum hunting. Throwing lots of crap around to see what sticks. Inconsistencies in behavior and explanations.
All but dropping out of the game once pressure on him died down is also a new point against him, I suppose.
Laziness? Fear of lynching an analyst day 1? AZ being really good at his verbal slight of hand? -I really have no idea at this point.
Awesome! You are so much better than Seppel!
I am so going to put you into the town slot and Az into the scum slot.
Seppel is acting more like Seppel than normal Seppel, but unless he has a track record of doing this as scum in games past, it's really mostly a null-tell against him.
Clarify? What does acting like Seppel mean? How come acting more as such is null? Even that behavioral anomaly?
Feeling good about him since he believed I am a town.
Yeah yeah yeah
But he only has a single post since I replaced in to draw that conclusion from though. Why is so interesting about Vezok that caught your interest?
Odd phrasing on a random phase post ("I'll vote Az since I can't do it late game") initially caught my eye in an early game kind of way, but then my interest cooled. At the height of the Az-TFF dogfight when both were halfway to lynch he expressed suspicion of folks on the TFF wagon (and others) but then suggested in the same post we lynch one of Az or TFF to figure out "what was going on". He's been reluctant to answer direct questions from me to him, and he has a very low posting rate.
I also did Manipulator and Sword of Truth (both TownAz) but Manipulator was short and my printscreen capabilities died for Sword of Truth. In Sword of Truth, Azrael maintained a fairly solid average of 3 posts per day for Day 1.
I like this, but it's far from perfect. It backs up the accusation that his posting falls off dramatically at times, but there's no cross-reference of what was happening in-thread during the active posting periods and what was happening when he goes into lurk mode.
I bet if you or anyone looked at posting graphs of yours truly, you'd find that they look much the same, especially on D1 when I try to avoid posting as much as possible.
[quote=Seppel;/comments/10720276]So I noticed that AE is posting far less than I remember him posting.
AE's postcount score:
???
[33] 1.5%: Return to Amistaria (13 of 859) *22
Scum
[108] 9.0%: Homestar Runner (100 of 1115) *12
[101] 4.4%: Heores (40 of 906) *23
[94] 7.8%: Magic 2011 (105 of 1346) *12
Town
[180] 8.2%: Goo (138 of 1690) *22
[145] 6.6%: Ogre (185 of 2783) *22
[109] 5.2%: Duel Monsters (86 of 1626) *21
[88] 4.4%: Anita Blake (63 of 1419) *20
[75] 3.0%: Annorax's Bastard Mod (52 of 1751) *25
Formula is (Number of AE's Posts) / (Number of Posts in Game when AE died/won) * (Number of Players). That gets his posting frequency.
As scum, he sticks around 100 frequency. As town he goes all over the place, but averages roughly 120 frequency.
In conclusion, the data is inconclusive.
Too many variables unaccounted for. In his town games, was AE a power role or vanilla? How powerful? Was he a replacement in any of these games? You also missed South Park as one of his scum games.
Speaking of South Park, that should be in your bloopers. I see it is actually is there in your sig, but you decided to remove it when you posted your list of short appearances and/or bloopers to this thread. Why would that be? Something to hide regarding South Park mafia?
@Dagger: You can see some of my posts regarding AI from the earlier Syrenz wagon. Basically, I think the way he pursued Syrenz was too roundabout to be scum, and I also think he's had some mindset tells that work in his favor. Also, I do indeed see atlseal as more likely to be scum than Az.
I also did Manipulator and Sword of Truth (both TownAz) but Manipulator was short and my printscreen capabilities died for Sword of Truth. In Sword of Truth, Azrael maintained a fairly solid average of 3 posts per day for Day 1.
I like this, but it's far from perfect. It backs up the accusation that his posting falls off dramatically at times, but there's no cross-reference of what was happening in-thread during the active posting periods and what was happening when he goes into lurk mode.
I bet if you or anyone looked at posting graphs of yours truly, you'd find that they look much the same, especially on D1 when I try to avoid posting as much as possible.
Too many variables unaccounted for. In his town games, was AE a power role or vanilla? How powerful? Was he a replacement in any of these games? You also missed South Park as one of his scum games.
Speaking of South Park, that should be in your bloopers. I see it is actually is there in your sig, but you decided to remove it when you posted your list of short appearances and/or bloopers to this thread. Why would that be? Something to hide regarding South Park mafia?
@Dagger: You can see some of my posts regarding AI from the earlier Syrenz wagon. Basically, I think the way he pursued Syrenz was too roundabout to be scum, and I also think he's had some mindset tells that work in his favor. Also, I do indeed see atlseal as more likely to be scum than Az.
Botched quote tag in my last post: this is the fixed version.
Also, I want to ask Seppel why he didn't include Az II (the scum version) in his SoT analysis.
If someone scummy claims that Jobie was lying and no one else corroborates this story, I'd much rather lynch the scummy player than Jobie. I'm flabbergasted that no one has considered this possibility.
When zindabad tells me I'm off-track, there's a damn good chance no one is going to take me seriously. I've already resigned myself to getting vigged at some point anyway, so for a while I was just getting along to get along. Then you replaced in.
All of your fake emotionality is making me wish I had Cyan's force of personality so I could actually make people listen to me and lynch you.
Speaking of South Park, that should be in your bloopers. I see it is actually is there in your sig, but you decided to remove it when you posted your list of short appearances and/or bloopers to this thread. Why would that be? Something to hide regarding South Park mafia?
That game was a train wreck and probably isn't worth using for meta, let along worth mentioning. I don't include it in my W/L column for a reason.
I also did Manipulator and Sword of Truth (both TownAz) but Manipulator was short and my printscreen capabilities died for Sword of Truth. In Sword of Truth, Azrael maintained a fairly solid average of 3 posts per day for Day 1.
I like this, but it's far from perfect. It backs up the accusation that his posting falls off dramatically at times, but there's no cross-reference of what was happening in-thread during the active posting periods and what was happening when he goes into lurk mode.
I bet if you or anyone looked at posting graphs of yours truly, you'd find that they look much the same, especially on D1 when I try to avoid posting as much as possible.
Too many variables unaccounted for. In his town games, was AE a power role or vanilla? How powerful? Was he a replacement in any of these games? You also missed South Park as one of his scum games.
Speaking of South Park, that should be in your bloopers. I see it is actually is there in your sig, but you decided to remove it when you posted your list of short appearances and/or bloopers to this thread. Why would that be? Something to hide regarding South Park mafia?
@Dagger: You can see some of my posts regarding AI from the earlier Syrenz wagon. Basically, I think the way he pursued Syrenz was too roundabout to be scum, and I also think he's had some mindset tells that work in his favor. Also, I do indeed see atlseal as more likely to be scum than Az.
I cut out south park because I didn't replace in to that game and tff asked for games I replaced into.
When I was in south park Joboman asked for a replacement and I said I'd replace in and he gave me a scum role pm and was like "thanks for replacing in!" Five minutes later he realized he now needed two replacements.
Basically when Seppel doesn't read/pay attention to the thread and responds to things flippantly (you can tell the difference between Seppel being Seppel and Seppel being overly flippant), he is scum. It might seem overly simple but it really kinda is.
No. Seppel is me, and I do the same thing regardless of alignment.
For the love of God, will you people please stop with the terri-bad meta arguments.
Not reading the game.
Attacking/voting/wagoning lots of players for little/no/bad/completely incorrect reasons, most likely due to the above.
Avoiding answering questions about the above.
Lying about his motivations for voting as shown in 596.
Having time for 81 posts, but not enough time to do more than skim other players' posts.
Finally admitting to only skimming after dodging the questions for an extended period of time.
His explanation not lining up with his play anyway, and other mindset issues as illustrated in 663.
-Basically, no signs of actual scum hunting. Throwing lots of crap around to see what sticks. Inconsistencies in behavior and explanations.
All but dropping out of the game once pressure on him died down is also a new point against him, I suppose.
Laziness? Fear of lynching an analyst day 1? AZ being really good at his verbal slight of hand? -I really have no idea at this point.
"Sleight" of hand, bitte.
Nice use of completely ridiculous over-generalizations. You realize this is what was wrong with my case on you?
Any time you say "no", or "lying", you're glossing over discrete and pertinent points of evidence that don't fit into your global worldview of what's going on. That's a problem I had to correct with my case on you, and I did it. That's why I backed off of you, and off of Manders, and off of Cyan. Because of the counter-evidence.
Instead, you're sitting over there, so convinced by your own reasoning, that you're ignoring the record.
Quote from Zindabad »
:(Too many variables unaccounted for. In his town games, was AE a power role or vanilla? How powerful? Was he a replacement in any of these games? You also missed South Park as one of his scum games.
*Nods* This is the essential problem with the meta-analysis. No one is (and frequently, no one can except perhaps the player himself) take account of all the different variables in play that can change someone's posting style.
Is anyone here following me around at school, taking notes on how hectic my schedule is? No. But nevertheless, you look to a graph of my posting history in several different games and expect to find some kind of meaningful evidence with enough reliability to justify a vote. Are you kidding me?
My theory going forward right now, is that the scum's best strategy at this time is to sit back and let us toss votes in every direction. I also would not be surprised to see them break cover to contribute a few votes here and there, especially because they want to fit in.
But if we're trying to come up with a profile of a scum in this game to pursue, I think someone fitting AE's profile of behavior is a very good fit. When I think of AE, I recall him as someone who's typically wagon-happy and free with his vote. Here, in the most-wagon happy game of all, he's instead fitting the profile of minimal activity that I would expect from scum.
The problem with that analysis is the variable that he had to replace in, and that generally reduces players' activity level. So, I'm not confident basing a case on that meta-analysis without more research.
However, I think that's he kind of profile we should be screening for right now given the dynamics of this game. If the scum are looking around and seeing that players who stick their heads up are getting bashed, I think they're going to see a number of clear strategies to try to exploit that. Either laying low, and/or contributing only where they think it's justifiable or they can get away with it.
I think we need to start doing some old-fashioned vote-count analysis, and see who is on where - and who isn't anywhere.
If someone scummy claims that Jobie was lying and no one else corroborates this story, I'd much rather lynch the scummy player than Jobie. I'm flabbergasted that no one has considered this possibility.
When zindabad tells me I'm off-track, there's a damn good chance no one is going to take me seriously. I've already resigned myself to getting vigged at some point anyway, so for a while I was just getting along to get along. Then you replaced in.
All of your fake emotionality is making me wish I had Cyan's force of personality so I could actually make people listen to me and lynch you.
so i'll be reading hoping to finish by saturday at the latest. I usually dont like it when people dole out commands but i'd appreciate your help on some things
1. A list of important happenings(claims actions etc)
2.votecount plz
3. Patience
When I was in south park Joboman asked for a replacement and I said I'd replace in and he gave me a scum role pm and was like "thanks for replacing in!" Five minutes later he realized he now needed two replacements.
But if we're trying to come up with a profile of a scum in this game to pursue, I think someone fitting AE's profile of behavior is a very good fit. When I think of AE, I recall him as someone who's typically wagon-happy and free with his vote. Here, in the most-wagon happy game of all, he's instead fitting the profile of minimal activity that I would expect from scum.
...
I think we need to start doing some old-fashioned vote-count analysis, and see who is on where - and who isn't anywhere.
I can get behind that. The fact that he jumped on the atlseal bandwagon is another strike against him in my book.
1. A list of important happenings(claims actions etc)
I'm a miller with some extra spice. I was going to target Pale Mage with my ability but it looks like that's getting redirected to this guy...
Jobie claimed to be a bodyguard with a lightning rod burnout (forces all players to target him). He's going to have to prove this tonight.
Some other people claimed some stuff when they should have kept their mouths shut. I won't name names (this time). You should be able to figure it out if you read my posts.
Nice use of completely ridiculous over-generalizations. You realize this is what was wrong with my case on you?
I was just briefly summing up the case for Dagger, not using it as the actual case like you did. He'll come across the more specific version, as well as all the evidence when he reads the thread.
I suppose, I haven't claimed that. I cast a spell transferring the player into a safe vessel, if their body is killed, they will then be placed in my body, with their abilities in tact and my spirit floats away into the ether.
This seems really disconnected from the character flavor you claimed.
And why am I just now noticing that a body-guard having a burnout, especially the one claimed, seems really pointless. Unlike most standard abilities, this one can't be used more than once anyway. -So, where's the tension? -The burnout is guaranteed to absorb at least one, and probably multiple kills (maybe even letting him survive it, depending on how protection works), unlike the standard ability that works at most once, if lucky, and leaves him dead; what motivation is there to ever not use the burnout?
I know DYH added the burnouts quickly, but this seems like a big thing to miss.
I was just briefly summing up the case for Dagger, not using it as the actual case like you did. He'll come across the more specific version, as well as all the evidence when he reads the thread.
So to use your turn of phrase, you were only "lying" to another player - not actually accurately representing your own views.
See, I can twist things out of all proportion, too. Isn't this fun?
Quote from TFF »
So, what record am I ignoring, exactly?
The record where I attack people for scum tells and people agree with me that there's something worth looking into. That one.
I know DYH added the burnouts quickly, but this seems like a big thing to miss.
Interesting, but you're gaming the mod more than I like.
Unless you're seriously suggesting we should lynch Jobie today in case he has a scum burnout he's itching to use, it's just better to wait and let him verify his ability.
so i'll be reading hoping to finish by saturday at the latest. I usually dont like it when people dole out commands but i'd appreciate your help on some things
1. A list of important happenings(claims actions etc)
2.votecount plz
3. Patience
Everyone who's saying Seppel doesn't read the game as scum is so out there. Granted, he's been known to forget who his scum buddies are and unknowingly bus them, but he definitely reads the game more closely when he is scum.
And, when he is town, he will eventually go back and re-read it, sometimes resulting in an awesome catch that ends in town wins (such as Kaizers Mafia).
These meta cases on Seppel are utterly ridiculous, and Cyan looks the worst for it because he of all people should have figured this out about him by now.
Go onto the main mafia page and click the post count number that's all the way to the right. It'll tell you everyone that's posted in and how many posts they have in that thread.
I have no idea what's going on anymore. I blame Seppel.
I've been thinking all game that AI should be dealt with later, but he's gone over the top for me with his bad attacks on Dagger. This post was just awful. He's just straight barning Seppel on Dagger, then calling attention away from it with the quote of Seppel. Maybe less of a point since he then straight up gives his vote to Seppel soon after. Anyway, AI makes one point against Dagger, and it's a bad one. Dagger's post wasn't disturbing, and when Dagger and I call him out on it we get bad answer. Here's the full exchange:
He suggested that if one player claims that his or her action didn't target Jobie like it should have, we string Jobie up. As if nothing else is relevant in that decision. If that doesn't send chills up your spine, then something's wrong.
What else do you think would be relevant in that decision? Either Jobie's ability was as he said or it was not. You are offering another alternative? Like what?
If someone scummy claims that Jobie was lying and no one else corroborates this story, I'd much rather lynch the scummy player than Jobie. I'm flabbergasted that no one has considered this possibility.
Which is also awful. What scum is going to claim against the tides to incriminate Jobie, when he's undoubtedly going to get killed the next day? And even if someone is bad enough to do that, it's essentially the same plan to lynch that person instead of Jobie. This isn't a big deal, but me makes it into one in the middle of trying to make Dagger look bad. Blegh.
I know DYH added the burnouts quickly, but this seems like a big thing to miss.
Eh, if I was reviewing this game and saw that role I'd just say "oh cool, burnout is a big version of regular ability, both are interesting, and neither is over powered. A+" and move on. Maybe I'd catch it the second time around, but I wouldn't count on it. The reason to be skeptical of Jobie's claim is that bodyguard claims suck, not that the burnout is meh.
With the way players are hopping wagons you don't like how I've voted? This is the first you mention it though.
Good point.
AI, this is a bit on the tu quoque side, but I'll have a go anyway: Why do you criticize AE for "jumping on the atlseal bandwagon"? How was his conduct in this post:
1) Azrael - Chase - Town - Woodland Ranger
3) Bilbroxain(Replacing Niv) - Zeddicus Zul Zorander - Town - Wizard of the First Order
4) Kpaca - Shota - Town Miller - Sorceress
20)Pale Mage - Ann - Town - Martyr
18)SomeOne - Armina - Sister of the Dark
5)Guardman - Nathan - Town Ancient Wizard
6)Infinis - Nicci - Town Pure Soul
21)Cyouni(Replacing The Motley Fool) - Silph - Town Magical Protector
22)Descoures - Adie - Town Sorceress
19)Deaths Vampire - Darken Rahl - Serial Killer
10)Nom Anor - Rachel - Town Willful Child
14)jordman - Ulicia - Sister of the Dark
15)Azrael - Jagang - Dreamwalker
Unless SoT was actually VR: Salvation Mafia Redux and there were multiple Azraels, I don't see why you wouldn't have picked up on that. But there's more.
I also did Manipulator and Sword of Truth (both TownAz) but Manipulator was short and my printscreen capabilities died for Sword of Truth. In Sword of Truth, Azrael maintained a fairly solid average of 3 posts per day for Day 1.
In this quote, you tell us that you calculated the average "TownAz" posting rate for D1 of SoT Mafia. To obtain this average - I'm doing the PM "walk me through it like I'm 5" thing here - you counted up all of Az's posts during D1, then divided that number by the number of real-life days over which D1 transpired.
I counted 59 Az posts on D1, which lasted 24 days. That posting rate is 2.45/day, not 3/day, although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. What I'm more concerned with is how you could possibly have failed to notice that Azrael had considerably more than 59 posts in the thread. He actually had just over triple that amount.
Basically, what I want to know is how you knew Az was in SoT as town and didn't know he was also in it as scum. You didn't read the game, that's clear. You didn't check the "who posted" list or the first page. You didn't check Az's stats page, since to the best of my knowledge he doesn't have one and it would have made some reference to the role he played as mafia in that game anyway. In this game, the only time Azrael and Sword of Truth mafia were referenced were in MMoD's post 635...where he references Az as scum.
So how did you know? I don't know if this is scummy or even relevant, but it's rubbing me totally the wrong way that you would not include this obvious fact about that game and then act so innocent when I ask you about it.
Sigh. I am at a loss for the state of this game. I'll admit, i came into this game expecting the heavyweights to throw their weight around, but what i didn't expect is the total and utter Sheepyness of the rest of the game. And after that, the complete lack of conviction by the heavyweights! This day has really gone no-where fast, and were running out of time to actually get something done.
AI, Cyan, Az, and DC.
You are all not playing like yourselves. AI has taken such a "Meh" stance to the game as a whole. This does not seem like the normal AI i've read in games before. The AI i've seen is way more Gun-ho! about finding small slips and turning them into proper cases.
AZ certainly is not an easy charater to read, but his post so far this game have essentially added up to "Let me live to i can show you who the scum are." Wanting to live at the expense of the game is certainly not a townie attitude.
Cyan actually started out, well, like i expected. He has since taken a back seat as well, for whatever reason. This is definatly not what i would expect from cyan, even moreso with the amount of wagons and votes already being thrown around.
DC, your confirmed town. And while it seems you've been very busy, you have yet to properly contribute to the game. Your a valuable asset to the town, and your proven town.
Everyone else who hasn't replaced in:
Its time we all stop waiting for the above 4 or other to make our cases for us. I'm as guilty as you for waiting for something to latch onto then attacking it, rather then actually hunting scum. We also should stop 4chan-ing up this thread, or actually, Please stop 4chan-ing and spamming up this thread. Re-reads are time consuming enough without so many fluff posts to wade through.
I have a re-read of Atlseal on list of things to do. I have been busy with work however. In the meantime, lets finds some scum, k?
I have no idea what's going on anymore. I blame Seppel.
I've been thinking all game that AI should be dealt with later, but he's gone over the top for me with his bad attacks on Dagger. This post was just awful. He's just straight barning Seppel on Dagger, then calling attention away from it with the quote of Seppel. Maybe less of a point since he then straight up gives his vote to Seppel soon after.
We have performed a fusion dance and now we are one player.
We have a double vote.
We have two lives. Players can target the miller life or the normal life for a kill.
So how did you know? I don't know if this is scummy or even relevant, but it's rubbing me totally the wrong way that you would not include this obvious fact about that game and then act so innocent when I ask you about it.
1) Click on the next mafia game in Azrael's game list, found in his blog posts. Alignments are indicated in his blog post.
2) Ctrl+F for "Azrael"
3) Click on the game and find out when D1 ended.
4) Click on the "Who posted?" list, click on Azrael's number.
5) Fill in data for Azrael's posts for D1 in Excel.
6) Generate chart.
1) Click on the next mafia game in Azrael's game list, found in his blog posts. Alignments are indicated in his blog post.
2) Ctrl+F for "Azrael"
3) Click on the game and find out when D1 ended.
4) Click on the "Who posted?" list, click on Azrael's number.
5) Fill in data for Azrael's posts for D1 in Excel.
6) Generate chart.
Tada.
OK, Seppel. Are you playing games with me or what? Azrael doesn't have a blog on this site, neither does he have one on GG. How did you find anything in his blog posts that don't exist? Google searches for Azrael's game list, blog, etc. using games that I know he finished, such as Stratego, turned up nothing. Please produce a link, if it exists.
Secondly, did you or did you not just read in my post where I said that Azrael's "Who posted?" list for Sword of Truth mafia is three times the number of posts he had on D1, which is the period during which he was town. How did you fail to notice that? It never occurred to you that Azrael had 119 - one hundred and nineteen - posts more in Sword of Truth mafia than the ones you compiled for your chart? How does that slip your mind? How did you fail to make the connection?
I think you are a liar. I can't imagine why you would lie about this, but I think you are lying. That's very bad for you.
You are all not playing like yourselves. AI has taken such a "Meh" stance to the game as a whole. This does not seem like the normal AI i've read in games before. The AI i've seen is way more Gun-ho! about finding small slips and turning them into proper cases.
I fully expect to be vigged so I'm just getting along to get along. If you don't like it, tough.
Odd phrasing on a random phase post ("I'll vote Az since I can't do it late game") initially caught my eye in an early game kind of way, but then my interest cooled. At the height of the Az-TFF dogfight when both were halfway to lynch he expressed suspicion of folks on the TFF wagon (and others) but then suggested in the same post we lynch one of Az or TFF to figure out "what was going on". He's been reluctant to answer direct questions from me to him, and he has a very low posting rate.
Other than that he seems awesome.
New thoughts? Or still seems good smiley face?
:smiley face:
Of note is that Az has sort of a reputation in this forum, so the random phase post most likely doesn't mean anything one way or another. The "lynch one of them" statement doesn't seem like something that would be uttered by a scum, or any individual very aware of what they are posting. Low posting doesn't really mean anything or at least, I don't recall a town vezok being particularly verbose about his points. Never seen his scum game before, or that I recall on the spot anyway. The only note that is of particular concern would be the reluctance to answer direct questions, and that could be due to any number of reasons, not all of them scummy.
@Dagger: You can see some of my posts regarding AI from the earlier Syrenz wagon. Basically, I think the way he pursued Syrenz was too roundabout to be scum, and I also think he's had some mindset tells that work in his favor. Also, I do indeed see atlseal as more likely to be scum than Az.
If someone scummy claims that Jobie was lying and no one else corroborates this story, I'd much rather lynch the scummy player than Jobie. I'm flabbergasted that no one has considered this possibility.
You are hedging your words. What if it's someone not scummy that is claiming Jobie was lying? You seem to be aware calling me out on that post was a mistake, and now you are trying to insert all sorts of scenario(s) in order to justify it.
When zindabad tells me I'm off-track, there's a damn good chance no one is going to take me seriously. I've already resigned myself to getting vigged at some point anyway, so for a while I was just getting along to get along. Then you replaced in.
Because Zind said so, it is so? Do you sort of put him in the same position as Seppel then?
That said, getting vigged means you just want cruise along in the game? No effort at all to help your team, assuming you are town that is? This is a team game, right? Why such a mindset?
But if we're trying to come up with a profile of a scum in this game to pursue, I think someone fitting AE's profile of behavior is a very good fit. When I think of AE, I recall him as someone who's typically wagon-happy and free with his vote. Here, in the most-wagon happy game of all, he's instead fitting the profile of minimal activity that I would expect from scum.
Sigh. I am at a loss for the state of this game. I'll admit, i came into this game expecting the heavyweights to throw their weight around, but what i didn't expect is the total and utter Sheepyness of the rest of the game. And after that, the complete lack of conviction by the heavyweights! This day has really gone no-where fast, and were running out of time to actually get something done.
AI, Cyan, Az, and DC.
You are all not playing like yourselves. AI has taken such a "Meh" stance to the game as a whole. This does not seem like the normal AI i've read in games before. The AI i've seen is way more Gun-ho! about finding small slips and turning them into proper cases.
AZ certainly is not an easy charater to read, but his post so far this game have essentially added up to "Let me live to i can show you who the scum are." Wanting to live at the expense of the game is certainly not a townie attitude.
Cyan actually started out, well, like i expected. He has since taken a back seat as well, for whatever reason. This is definatly not what i would expect from cyan, even moreso with the amount of wagons and votes already being thrown around.
DC, your confirmed town. And while it seems you've been very busy, you have yet to properly contribute to the game. Your a valuable asset to the town, and your proven town.
Everyone else who hasn't replaced in:
Its time we all stop waiting for the above 4 or other to make our cases for us. I'm as guilty as you for waiting for something to latch onto then attacking it, rather then actually hunting scum. We also should stop 4chan-ing up this thread, or actually, Please stop 4chan-ing and spamming up this thread. Re-reads are time consuming enough without so many fluff posts to wade through.
I have a re-read of Atlseal on list of things to do. I have been busy with work however. In the meantime, lets finds some scum, k?
In this post, you sound exactly like a scum that urges other people to scumhunt while you yourself take a backseat.
Then your discussion of the 4 players above were with regards to their actions and not to your behavioral read on them, which is another sign of a scum post. I mean, you blasted them for not acting townie? Why not directly accuse them of being scum?
Thanks, didn't feel like digging through all those posts for it. Did he claim it earlier or later?
I found jobie's flavor claim though, and it fits nicely with the pattern of flavored townies from last game. So, dC might be onto something here.
Jobie, whats the flavor of your bodyguard ability.
Maybe. My memory is he claimed it fairly early, but I haven't looked it up. It sticks out in my mind because he used his thoughtful voice instead of his playful one.
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
Huh... you actually cracked.
So... if you were to unexpectedly die in the game, you wouldn't blame me, right?
I see. That's certainly something to be looked into during the weekend.
Why do you see AI as a non-scum?
But Az is in a better position as compared to say, atlseal, in your opinion?
Oh? So Ged is scum as well?
What else do you think would be relevant in that decision? Either Jobie's ability was as he said or it was not. You are offering another alternative? Like what?
No one said that they weren't going to listen. Only 2-3 players have responded since you made this post? But you immediately backtrack using the excuse that you would rather move your vote as Seppel sees fit? Whatever happened to personal responsibility for your own vote?
Well, that's tragic. I was rather hoping there would be more than two fishes in the net.
Feeling good about him since he believed I am a town.
But he only has a single post since I replaced in to draw that conclusion from though. Why is so interesting about Vezok that caught your interest?
I'm cool! I suppose I should Vote: Seppel then. whee~
Let's force a claim, everyone!
You are not scum, are you, MH?
Awesome! You are so much better than Seppel!
I am so going to put you into the town slot and Az into the scum slot.
Hi, Shadow! Never seen you before. Pleased to make your acquaintance. Who do you think are the bad guys in this game?
Clarify? What does acting like Seppel mean? How come acting more as such is null? Even that behavioral anomaly?
How come you know MMOD is scum?
Who do you have in mind?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Random Mafia 2 Town MVP
'08 MTGS Fantasy Football Overall Champion
Best Non-SK Neutral Performance (Individual)
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Waste of time.
BRILLIANT
I will on Day 3. If I think I'm in danger of being NK'd, I'll do it sooner.
You are absolutely terrible at falseclaiming vig.
Don't spoil my fun.
* Dagger sulks.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
AE's postcount score:
???
[33] 1.5%: Return to Amistaria (13 of 859) *22
Scum
[108] 9.0%: Homestar Runner (100 of 1115) *12
[101] 4.4%: Heores (40 of 906) *23
[94] 7.8%: Magic 2011 (105 of 1346) *12
Town
[180] 8.2%: Goo (138 of 1690) *22
[145] 6.6%: Ogre (185 of 2783) *22
[109] 5.2%: Duel Monsters (86 of 1626) *21
[88] 4.4%: Anita Blake (63 of 1419) *20
[75] 3.0%: Annorax's Bastard Mod (52 of 1751) *25
Formula is (Number of AE's Posts) / (Number of Posts in Game when AE died/won) * (Number of Players). That gets his posting frequency.
As scum, he sticks around 100 frequency. As town he goes all over the place, but averages roughly 120 frequency.
In conclusion, the data is inconclusive.
Yeah yeah yeah
Odd phrasing on a random phase post ("I'll vote Az since I can't do it late game") initially caught my eye in an early game kind of way, but then my interest cooled. At the height of the Az-TFF dogfight when both were halfway to lynch he expressed suspicion of folks on the TFF wagon (and others) but then suggested in the same post we lynch one of Az or TFF to figure out "what was going on". He's been reluctant to answer direct questions from me to him, and he has a very low posting rate.
Other than that he seems awesome.
New thoughts? Or still seems good smiley face?
Too many variables unaccounted for. In his town games, was AE a power role or vanilla? How powerful? Was he a replacement in any of these games? You also missed South Park as one of his scum games.
Speaking of South Park, that should be in your bloopers. I see it is actually is there in your sig, but you decided to remove it when you posted your list of short appearances and/or bloopers to this thread. Why would that be? Something to hide regarding South Park mafia?
@Dagger: You can see some of my posts regarding AI from the earlier Syrenz wagon. Basically, I think the way he pursued Syrenz was too roundabout to be scum, and I also think he's had some mindset tells that work in his favor. Also, I do indeed see atlseal as more likely to be scum than Az.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Botched quote tag in my last post: this is the fixed version.
Also, I want to ask Seppel why he didn't include Az II (the scum version) in his SoT analysis.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Me too.
No, you are not that innocent.
Ged is scum.
If someone scummy claims that Jobie was lying and no one else corroborates this story, I'd much rather lynch the scummy player than Jobie. I'm flabbergasted that no one has considered this possibility.
When zindabad tells me I'm off-track, there's a damn good chance no one is going to take me seriously. I've already resigned myself to getting vigged at some point anyway, so for a while I was just getting along to get along. Then you replaced in.
All of your fake emotionality is making me wish I had Cyan's force of personality so I could actually make people listen to me and lynch you.
That game was a train wreck and probably isn't worth using for meta, let along worth mentioning. I don't include it in my W/L column for a reason.
Among others: Symbiote (scum, endgamed), Doha (town, lynched D2).
I cut out south park because I didn't replace in to that game and tff asked for games I replaced into.
When I was in south park Joboman asked for a replacement and I said I'd replace in and he gave me a scum role pm and was like "thanks for replacing in!" Five minutes later he realized he now needed two replacements.
Who?
No. Seppel is me, and I do the same thing regardless of alignment.
For the love of God, will you people please stop with the terri-bad meta arguments.
"Sleight" of hand, bitte.
Nice use of completely ridiculous over-generalizations. You realize this is what was wrong with my case on you?
Any time you say "no", or "lying", you're glossing over discrete and pertinent points of evidence that don't fit into your global worldview of what's going on. That's a problem I had to correct with my case on you, and I did it. That's why I backed off of you, and off of Manders, and off of Cyan. Because of the counter-evidence.
Instead, you're sitting over there, so convinced by your own reasoning, that you're ignoring the record.
*Nods* This is the essential problem with the meta-analysis. No one is (and frequently, no one can except perhaps the player himself) take account of all the different variables in play that can change someone's posting style.
Is anyone here following me around at school, taking notes on how hectic my schedule is? No. But nevertheless, you look to a graph of my posting history in several different games and expect to find some kind of meaningful evidence with enough reliability to justify a vote. Are you kidding me?
My theory going forward right now, is that the scum's best strategy at this time is to sit back and let us toss votes in every direction. I also would not be surprised to see them break cover to contribute a few votes here and there, especially because they want to fit in.
But if we're trying to come up with a profile of a scum in this game to pursue, I think someone fitting AE's profile of behavior is a very good fit. When I think of AE, I recall him as someone who's typically wagon-happy and free with his vote. Here, in the most-wagon happy game of all, he's instead fitting the profile of minimal activity that I would expect from scum.
The problem with that analysis is the variable that he had to replace in, and that generally reduces players' activity level. So, I'm not confident basing a case on that meta-analysis without more research.
However, I think that's he kind of profile we should be screening for right now given the dynamics of this game. If the scum are looking around and seeing that players who stick their heads up are getting bashed, I think they're going to see a number of clear strategies to try to exploit that. Either laying low, and/or contributing only where they think it's justifiable or they can get away with it.
I think we need to start doing some old-fashioned vote-count analysis, and see who is on where - and who isn't anywhere.
well we have a double-vote. So let's do this.
Unvote, vote Ged
I can't get bday to work fine on my phone
atlseal (4) - zindabad, desCoures, vezokpiraka, Archmage Eternal
MMoD (4) - atlseal, Anaklusmos, TheFooFish, AsianInvasion
Seppel (4) - kpaca, Cyan, Jobie, dagger
Anaklusmos (1) - Azrael
Azrael (1) - Skander
Ged (1) - Seppel
Jobie (1) - poggydude (Syrenz)
With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch.
Update: poggydude is replacing Syrenz.
Inflexible Deadline: Friday, March 11th, at 5pm ET.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
so i'll be reading hoping to finish by saturday at the latest. I usually dont like it when people dole out commands but i'd appreciate your help on some things
1. A list of important happenings(claims actions etc)
2.votecount plz
3. Patience
ALSO MY FIRST GAME WITH SEPPEL HI SEPPEL!!!!!!!!
also unvote (as if it matters)
joboman. What a master.
Azrael started as town, died, replaced in as scum, then died again (IIRC).
I can get behind that. The fact that he jumped on the atlseal bandwagon is another strike against him in my book.
Uhh...What about mmod? Are we just going to let him go?
I'm a miller with some extra spice. I was going to target Pale Mage with my ability but it looks like that's getting redirected to this guy...
Jobie claimed to be a bodyguard with a lightning rod burnout (forces all players to target him). He's going to have to prove this tonight.
Some other people claimed some stuff when they should have kept their mouths shut. I won't name names (this time). You should be able to figure it out if you read my posts.
Lord, give me strength.
I was just briefly summing up the case for Dagger, not using it as the actual case like you did. He'll come across the more specific version, as well as all the evidence when he reads the thread.
So, what record am I ignoring, exactly?
This seems really disconnected from the character flavor you claimed.
And why am I just now noticing that a body-guard having a burnout, especially the one claimed, seems really pointless. Unlike most standard abilities, this one can't be used more than once anyway. -So, where's the tension? -The burnout is guaranteed to absorb at least one, and probably multiple kills (maybe even letting him survive it, depending on how protection works), unlike the standard ability that works at most once, if lucky, and leaves him dead; what motivation is there to ever not use the burnout?
I know DYH added the burnouts quickly, but this seems like a big thing to miss.
Let's get him to claim to make me sure he is town.
unvote
vote seppel
I have a good reason for this that I will tell you after seppel claims.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
W
T
F
?
?
?
So to use your turn of phrase, you were only "lying" to another player - not actually accurately representing your own views.
See, I can twist things out of all proportion, too. Isn't this fun?
The record where I attack people for scum tells and people agree with me that there's something worth looking into. That one.
Interesting, but you're gaming the mod more than I like.
Unless you're seriously suggesting we should lynch Jobie today in case he has a scum burnout he's itching to use, it's just better to wait and let him verify his ability.
:kitty::devo:
I replaced into this game. I'm in to other big games I'm invested in. I did say I'm going to take the week end to go over this game.
Nope. Don't play that way anymore. Unless we want to string up Zindabad?
With the way players are hopping wagons you don't like how I've voted? This is the first you mention it though.
So is this a form of day talk between you three?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Hi poggydude!
I can only assume that your excitement means that you're down!
Oh. Why would zindabad think that I could catch that?
We have more than one day to make lynches. If you want to go after mmod, that's cool. I just prefer Ged.
No, you don't.
Oh.
See I would've known this if I read the thread, BUT I DIDN'T.
Yep
This...
The cat killer strikes again.
Everyone who's saying Seppel doesn't read the game as scum is so out there. Granted, he's been known to forget who his scum buddies are and unknowingly bus them, but he definitely reads the game more closely when he is scum.
And, when he is town, he will eventually go back and re-read it, sometimes resulting in an awesome catch that ends in town wins (such as Kaizers Mafia).
These meta cases on Seppel are utterly ridiculous, and Cyan looks the worst for it because he of all people should have figured this out about him by now.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
@seppel i think i'll beat you on post count
@seppel how do you check post count in a game?
No, he means down. I'll let him explain.
Go onto the main mafia page and click the post count number that's all the way to the right. It'll tell you everyone that's posted in and how many posts they have in that thread.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Town.
Good luck. I got kpaca on my side.
Way to make me look like I'm insane.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Need I remind you of this: http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/hMH2DJMi6PPhV
lol @manders
wheeeeee
That's just proof that I shouldn't be left alone with my thoughts
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
DYH: Please replace me.
I don't have the time to keep up.
I've been thinking all game that AI should be dealt with later, but he's gone over the top for me with his bad attacks on Dagger. This post was just awful. He's just straight barning Seppel on Dagger, then calling attention away from it with the quote of Seppel. Maybe less of a point since he then straight up gives his vote to Seppel soon after. Anyway, AI makes one point against Dagger, and it's a bad one. Dagger's post wasn't disturbing, and when Dagger and I call him out on it we get bad answer. Here's the full exchange:
Which is also awful. What scum is going to claim against the tides to incriminate Jobie, when he's undoubtedly going to get killed the next day? And even if someone is bad enough to do that, it's essentially the same plan to lynch that person instead of Jobie. This isn't a big deal, but me makes it into one in the middle of trying to make Dagger look bad. Blegh.
@TFF:
Eh, if I was reviewing this game and saw that role I'd just say "oh cool, burnout is a big version of regular ability, both are interesting, and neither is over powered. A+" and move on. Maybe I'd catch it the second time around, but I wouldn't count on it. The reason to be skeptical of Jobie's claim is that bodyguard claims suck, not that the burnout is meh.
Cleanup on aisle 5!
Some things will never change, I suppose.
Good point.
AI, this is a bit on the tu quoque side, but I'll have a go anyway: Why do you criticize AE for "jumping on the atlseal bandwagon"? How was his conduct in this post:
Any different to yours in this post:
***
Firstly, we have this:
Unless SoT was actually VR: Salvation Mafia Redux and there were multiple Azraels, I don't see why you wouldn't have picked up on that. But there's more.
In this quote, you tell us that you calculated the average "TownAz" posting rate for D1 of SoT Mafia. To obtain this average - I'm doing the PM "walk me through it like I'm 5" thing here - you counted up all of Az's posts during D1, then divided that number by the number of real-life days over which D1 transpired.
I counted 59 Az posts on D1, which lasted 24 days. That posting rate is 2.45/day, not 3/day, although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. What I'm more concerned with is how you could possibly have failed to notice that Azrael had considerably more than 59 posts in the thread. He actually had just over triple that amount.
Basically, what I want to know is how you knew Az was in SoT as town and didn't know he was also in it as scum. You didn't read the game, that's clear. You didn't check the "who posted" list or the first page. You didn't check Az's stats page, since to the best of my knowledge he doesn't have one and it would have made some reference to the role he played as mafia in that game anyway. In this game, the only time Azrael and Sword of Truth mafia were referenced were in MMoD's post 635...where he references Az as scum.
So how did you know? I don't know if this is scummy or even relevant, but it's rubbing me totally the wrong way that you would not include this obvious fact about that game and then act so innocent when I ask you about it.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
AI, Cyan, Az, and DC.
You are all not playing like yourselves. AI has taken such a "Meh" stance to the game as a whole. This does not seem like the normal AI i've read in games before. The AI i've seen is way more Gun-ho! about finding small slips and turning them into proper cases.
AZ certainly is not an easy charater to read, but his post so far this game have essentially added up to "Let me live to i can show you who the scum are." Wanting to live at the expense of the game is certainly not a townie attitude.
Cyan actually started out, well, like i expected. He has since taken a back seat as well, for whatever reason. This is definatly not what i would expect from cyan, even moreso with the amount of wagons and votes already being thrown around.
DC, your confirmed town. And while it seems you've been very busy, you have yet to properly contribute to the game. Your a valuable asset to the town, and your proven town.
Everyone else who hasn't replaced in:
Its time we all stop waiting for the above 4 or other to make our cases for us. I'm as guilty as you for waiting for something to latch onto then attacking it, rather then actually hunting scum. We also should stop 4chan-ing up this thread, or actually, Please stop 4chan-ing and spamming up this thread. Re-reads are time consuming enough without so many fluff posts to wade through.
I have a re-read of Atlseal on list of things to do. I have been busy with work however. In the meantime, lets finds some scum, k?
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Seriously?
You're great when you're town.
What is up with all these replacements this month?
We have performed a fusion dance and now we are one player.
We have a double vote.
We have two lives. Players can target the miller life or the normal life for a kill.
If we lose a life, we lose our double-vote.
1) Click on the next mafia game in Azrael's game list, found in his blog posts. Alignments are indicated in his blog post.
2) Ctrl+F for "Azrael"
3) Click on the game and find out when D1 ended.
4) Click on the "Who posted?" list, click on Azrael's number.
5) Fill in data for Azrael's posts for D1 in Excel.
6) Generate chart.
Tada.
Ok.
* Seppel finds Arcadic.
Oh hey that was easy.
OK, Seppel. Are you playing games with me or what? Azrael doesn't have a blog on this site, neither does he have one on GG. How did you find anything in his blog posts that don't exist? Google searches for Azrael's game list, blog, etc. using games that I know he finished, such as Stratego, turned up nothing. Please produce a link, if it exists.
Secondly, did you or did you not just read in my post where I said that Azrael's "Who posted?" list for Sword of Truth mafia is three times the number of posts he had on D1, which is the period during which he was town. How did you fail to notice that? It never occurred to you that Azrael had 119 - one hundred and nineteen - posts more in Sword of Truth mafia than the ones you compiled for your chart? How does that slip your mind? How did you fail to make the connection?
I think you are a liar. I can't imagine why you would lie about this, but I think you are lying. That's very bad for you.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Dunno; it sucks though.
Cool, I learned a new word today.
I'm town. Jobie was acting like scum.
I have no idea what AE is. atlseal is probably town.
Make sense?
I fully expect to be vigged so I'm just getting along to get along. If you don't like it, tough.
Why indeed?
Does this sort of data mining actually work?
:smiley face:
Of note is that Az has sort of a reputation in this forum, so the random phase post most likely doesn't mean anything one way or another. The "lynch one of them" statement doesn't seem like something that would be uttered by a scum, or any individual very aware of what they are posting. Low posting doesn't really mean anything or at least, I don't recall a town vezok being particularly verbose about his points. Never seen his scum game before, or that I recall on the spot anyway. The only note that is of particular concern would be the reluctance to answer direct questions, and that could be due to any number of reasons, not all of them scummy.
So, investigate or vig vezok?
Noted. Those would be taken into account.
I am the very pinnacle of innocence in this game. :radiant halo:
Yes. I heard you the first time. Why do you think he is scum though?
You are hedging your words. What if it's someone not scummy that is claiming Jobie was lying? You seem to be aware calling me out on that post was a mistake, and now you are trying to insert all sorts of scenario(s) in order to justify it.
Because Zind said so, it is so? Do you sort of put him in the same position as Seppel then?
That said, getting vigged means you just want cruise along in the game? No effort at all to help your team, assuming you are town that is? This is a team game, right? Why such a mindset?
Heh. Even if you were to have Cyan's force of personality, I doubt you would actually successfully trigger a lynch on me. Rock-solid claim, remember?
So, meta arguments are doomed to fail?
Oooh.
/ticks AE on the List of Interesting People
Hey! I got to play with you.
So... you are a Miller.
/blinks
Yea... you will die an unexpected death.
That assessment is only accurate if you are town though.
What did Seppel do?
In this post, you sound exactly like a scum that urges other people to scumhunt while you yourself take a backseat.
Then your discussion of the 4 players above were with regards to their actions and not to your behavioral read on them, which is another sign of a scum post. I mean, you blasted them for not acting townie? Why not directly accuse them of being scum?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
4chaned it up.