Or we just don't think he is as scummy as you do. Or we think other people are significantly scummier.
Are you kidding? You of all people should want AE lynched. Him bad-mouthing the double vote idea RIGHT UP UNTIL they gave the item to you should be the final nail in the coffin. He set you up Cyan. In the same breath he reversed his idea on the double vote idea and pointed to you. This is not up for debate, AE is caught scum with this.
Well, your conceiving a plan to see if certain players had double votes does not jive with your claim of wanting to know if your the only one of your kind.
Nakamura names Archmage, Zionite, Cyan and Atlseal as possible suspects. Archmage distances himself from both the naming and the double vote plan by bolding 'certain' players here. He's putting emphasis on his distancing even. He does not like the idea of getting caught with the double vote.
Well why don't we continue with the double vote plan. Its obvious that the ones that voted don't have it. Except Cyan because he neglected to double vote :-/. So we have the rest of the player base double vote different players down the line.
Archmage never verified he didn't have a double vote. Then he points out Cyan specifically, as if Cyan would be caught with it. This shows AE had knowledge the item was passed to Cyan before Cyan ever said anything about it. Why would a town AE care about Cyan's double vote after previously stating, several times, that Cyan was town? A town AE would assume Cyan as town, and therefore request different players to double vote to scum hunt. This is clearly a scum-motivated Archmage here.
THIS ISN'T A SIGNAL TO YOU GUYS AT ALL? REALLY?
I'm quitting mafia if AE doesn't get lynched. This is seriously the easiest lynch you should ever have to make. This is why I don't bother making cases anymore because you guys talk yourselves into the lynches you want, not the correct ones.
Anyone else notice AE's sudden disappearance as well?
Have the flu so posting will be down alot. Last time I was on you still did not post your conection of games so...
Plus theres no need to quit mafia if I'm not lynched. Thats just silly. Thing is if I'm lynched you'll be lynched the next day(hopefully). going to do some quick replies but I'm not avoiding anything. If thats what you think go ahead. Pick it apart tomorrow.
Bottom line here is, there is evidence to believe AE is scum based on the fact he's only declared two townies all game and have been iffy on each, Cyan and AL. Every other player he has implied they are scum. There are several inconsistencies in his play, including his stance on Nom, his pursuit of me vs non-pursuit of Seppel despite calling each scum, his reversal of opinion on the double vote trap. It seems to me like he was ready to bus Seppel at any time but would rather see me hang, obviously if they are buddies this is ideal. His opportunism regarding several players and his fast and loose style of voting sets off even more alarms.
I hardly ever declare townies. I have no idea. I'm always suspect off people. You have to be. How was my stance on Nom inconsistent? I really wanted you to be the lynch over anyone because of how you were trying to fabricate a case on me regardless of who else I thought to be scum.
Regardless, the mafia still have a motive for planting the item on Cyan. AE has encouraged the double vote plan and pointed at Cyan in the same breath, even after previously casting doubt on it. This should indicate AE as scum.
Are you kidding? You of all people should want AE lynched. Him bad-mouthing the double vote idea RIGHT UP UNTIL they gave the item to you should be the final nail in the coffin. He set you up Cyan. In the same breath he reversed his idea on the double vote idea and pointed to you. This is not up for debate, AE is caught scum with this.
It may be because I'm sick but I don't understand the bolded of these two posts.
Nakamura names Archmage, Zionite, Cyan and Atlseal as possible suspects. Archmage distances himself from both the naming and the double vote plan by bolding 'certain' players here. He's putting emphasis on his distancing even. He does not like the idea of getting caught with the double vote.
Archmage never verified he didn't have a double vote. Then he points out Cyan specifically, as if Cyan would be caught with it. This shows AE had knowledge the item was passed to Cyan before Cyan ever said anything about it. Why would a town AE care about Cyan's double vote after previously stating, several times, that Cyan was town? A town AE would assume Cyan as town, and therefore request different players to double vote to scum hunt. This is clearly a scum-motivated Archmage here.
This is all wrong. I think you said I never voted......Post 1156
Seems to be happen to much this game. Hmm Sepel, Cyan, Cyan, Seppel? Vote Seppel Vote Seppel
I encouraged the continuing of the double vote. I didn't understand why Naka had a plan to weed the double voter out just to end it with a vote count and then say she just wanted to see if there were others like her. You trying really hard now at misrepn' me. Vote Zionite.
I won't be back on tonight. I'll make an attempt to be on tomorrow and I'll start from here and reply to whatever.
I don't want to go out of my way and kill atlseal yet (as I am still not quite sure if he is just neutral or anti-town neutral {I figure that will get worked out soon enough though}), but I saw this when I thought Cyan claimed supersaint as a way to get rid of him without any disadvantage to the town like wasting a lynch.
That's all nice, but you didn't answer my question: WHY do you want to get rid of atlseal?
I hardly ever declare townies. I have no idea. I'm always suspect off people. You have to be. How was my stance on Nom inconsistent? I really wanted you to be the lynch over anyone because of how you were trying to fabricate a case on me regardless of who else I thought to be scum.
You went from casing and voting Nom to declaring him town without any explanation as to why you switched.
I hardly call this a fabricated case. It was in my mind all along, but is only now seeing the game. You constantly call my case fabricated simply because it wasn't here yet. How would you know if it was fabricated or not if you've never seen it?
This is all wrong. I think you said I never voted......Post 1156
Please show me verification that you double voted and a subsequent votecount proving you did not have the item. Otherwise what you say doesn't matter. I did not see you attempt to double vote ever.
I encouraged the continuing of the double vote. I didn't understand why Naka had a plan to weed the double voter out just to end it with a vote count and then say she just wanted to see if there were others like her. You trying really hard now at misrepn' me. Vote Zionite.
How is this a mis-rep? Instead of going with the plan you ignored it and trashed it's creator. You never even attempted to double vote, so how is that an encouragement for others to try it?
Seriously, why would you say things like that? If he's town and you're town, why would lynching you be good?
That way no one has any reason not to vote AE. If they still want me lynched they will get a chance, but only if I'm wrong about AE and have been the entire game.
Oh yeah, and if anyone wants to read Day 4 of Heroes Mafia, which began with a mod-confirmed investigation of "AE is Scum", he retreats much in the same way as he is doing here. He goes from really aggressive to shy, caught scum.
Anyone want to volunteer an item to trade/trade back with AE to confirm he never traded an item today? It's my understanding you may only trade items once in a day.
That way no one has any reason not to vote AE. If they still want me lynched they will get a chance, but only if I'm wrong about AE and have been the entire game.
If you're both town, then I have a damn good reason not to vote AE. That's pretty selfish of you, y'know?
If you're both town, then I have a damn good reason not to vote AE. That's pretty selfish of you, y'know?
Doesn't make sense with the given behavioral evidence.
You're talking yourself out of the correct lynches again, Seppel.
Cyan could possibly be the SK. The only thing we'll know for certain from AE's lynch is that Cyan is not mafia. We still won't know for sure if he is town.
You went from casing and voting Nom to declaring him town without any explanation as to why you switched.
OMG show me where I said Nom was town.
I won't count on it.
Give me a freakin break. Enough with the whoa is me attitude and these lame a$$ jabs. No need to listen to you whine about how wrong your reads have been, enough already.
Nothing but lies now. NOT ONLY DID I DOUBLE VOTE BUT YOU FOLLOWED RIGHT BEHIND ME!!!!!! What the heck. Like I've said before, you don't care how the game is going as long as theres a lynch. You not paying attention. Then you cry. I'm not understanding you here. Are we talking two different things?
That is an excalent idea. Pass me an item and I'll pass it back. As long as it doesn't have the ability to day kill because Zionite won't last. Wait then there is the wifom, scum passing to scum
Originally Posted by Zionite
Oh yeah, and if anyone wants to read Day 4 of Heroes Mafia, which began with a mod-confirmed investigation of "AE is Scum", he retreats much in the same way as he is doing here. He goes from really aggressive to shy, caught scum.
So how am I retreating in this game? Where the heck have I been shy?
Hm...alright so AE didn't have the item. But this still doesn't clear you as scum. Why did you ask Cyan specifically to double vote when several other players hadn't double voted either?
You unvoted Nom and never gave explanation why.
Can you respond to my other concerns as well, since you're well enough to post now?
Hm...alright so AE didn't have the item. But this still doesn't clear you as scum. Why did you ask Cyan specifically to double vote when several other players hadn't double voted either?
Because he came in with one vote while we were double voting.
You unvoted Nom and never gave explanation why.
You just don't follow along. I don't know whats killing me more you or this freakn' cold. We were double voting. We then caught Naka in a lie so thats where my vote went.
Can you respond to my other concerns as well, since you're well enough to post now?
Thats what the "don't get excited" ment in the top of my post. I won't be posting much. Itemize your other concerns and I'll get to them. Going to bed now. In the meantime can we have more votes on Zionite. I'm showing his case holds no water.
Zionite, the only post I remember you including where AE said Nom was town was from day 2, you know, after Nom died?
AE's right, you're not paying attention. Coupled with the rest of your play, I think you're the lynch for the day.
Vote: Zionite
@ DV: Dude, you gotta give me more than that. TACKY didn't do crap, so you've got a clean slate.
Tell me why you think Cyan's SK. Let's start there.
I'm done with this. If you guys aren't even going to try then I'm going to do the same. AE is so obviously scum it hurts. I've already stated I don't care if I am lynched as long as he dies. But please make a ☺☺☺☺ing decision and don't waste my time.
I'm done with this. If you guys aren't even going to try then I'm going to do the same. AE is so obviously scum it hurts. I've already stated I don't care if I am lynched as long as he dies. But please make a ☺☺☺☺ing decision and don't waste my time.
And, yet, last day of AB, you never once quit.
Perhaps Cyan's "defeatism is a scum tell" theory carries some weight.
That's all nice, but you didn't answer my question: WHY do you want to get rid of atlseal?
Because he is not town and I am unsure of whether he is just neutral or anti-town neutral. Plus he has already lied about his role and he is apparently evil/scary enough to scare away the spirits of the dead. So if I see a chance to get rid of atlseal with little to no investment to the town I am going to take it.
More to the point, why are you so concerned with me wanting to get rid of atlseal, a claimed neutral that has been caught lying already?
Because he is not town and I am unsure of whether he is just neutral or anti-town neutral. Plus he has already lied about his role and he is apparently evil/scary enough to scare away the spirits of the dead. So if I see a chance to get rid of atlseal with little to no investment to the town I am going to take it.
More to the point, why are you so concerned with me wanting to get rid of atlseal, a claimed neutral that has been caught lying already?
I'm not liking A_E's recent behavior. I'm glad Azrael finally posted content, though I think Seppel might actually be scum. I regret trying to save him with Foorg'el.
Zionite's "I'll quit mafia if you don't vote A_E" stance is interesting. This has easily been the strangest Mafia day I've ever been in, even without my cult leader gambit.
Also I'm drunk and I've lost my flavor. If someone has an ability that steals flavor, please give back my flavor.
Well I just think my skills to contribute lie within my reads. If no one is going to bother reading them or feel moved in some way to change their minds, I have no business playing. It's the equivalent of talking to a wall if my actions have no bearing on my team winning.
I just can't decide whether or not it's just a ploy by Zionite, and if so, whether or not such a ploy is a tell or not. He's certainly been unable to convince people of his reads before, and didn't result to effectively throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, this is not at all like his general town play, which is starting to bug me.
And, yet, last day of AB, you never once quit. Perhaps Cyan's "defeatism is a scum tell" theory carries some weight.
Fix'd
1) Where's zindabad on your list? 2) Why is atlseal listed as town? 3) Please provide reasons, as you're in no position for me to just trust.
1. Zindabad is in the "huh, he exists?" zone.
2. Covered.
3. Reasoning:
Town:
Manders - Your interactions with Seppel.
AL - The wacky gambit is a really good townie tell, and I highly doubt he faked it for show.
Seppel - The manner in which he's claimed, used his role, and attempted to organize the town.
Atlseal - Totally trustworthy - at least as to not being mafia. My opinion: complete his remaining contracts ASAP and get him out of our hair before he does become a genuine threat.
?:
Asian
Guardman
Cantrip
TackyDeaths_Vampire
ITF
Cyan - Cyan's claiming style bugged me, but that's all I've seen that tripped me. There's been a lot of stops and starts in attacks, but none of it's seemed obviously faked.
Zionite - The attitude is really extreme, and I can't yet decide if I believe it.
Scum:
Red Omega - Creepy vibes. Major creepy vibes.
AE - Zionite.
Toastboy - he steals things in the night and does other things that I've forgotten. But I remember they were bad, so you should just trust me on that. Kay?
I just can't decide whether or not it's just a ploy by Zionite, and if so, whether or not such a ploy is a tell or not. He's certainly been unable to convince people of his reads before, and didn't result to effectively throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, this is not at all like his general town play, which is starting to bug me.
See The Stand mafia. I come in and am goaded into activity much like here, which leads me to re-read and find Nakamura as scum. I had to single-handedly make that wagon work and build a case from nothing. I get mad when people don't see how obvious it is.
Very similar to my play here. I'm goaded into activity, I explode with a case, I catch scum, I have difficulty convincing others. It's my textbook play really.
Being listed as the sole reason someone is scum makes me fuzzy inside, however it worries me that you trust my case while not trusting me as town. If you're not sure of my towniness, you wouldn't accept my case as legitimate. If you think AE is scum based on my case, then you have to take into account under what circumstances I, as AE's scum buddy, would throw him under the bus with no provocation to do so. You also have to wonder why, as scum, I would ignore all other wagons in favor of my scum buddy and continue to do so the entire game.
Point being: I'm either town and you believe me or I'm scum and you can't believe me. These are incompatible ideas that you're putting off as compatible irks me.
Jeez, Cyan's right. People's inability to pay attention to this game is awful.
3. Reasoning:
Town:
Manders - Your interactions with Seppel.
AL - The wacky gambit is a really good townie tell, and I highly doubt he faked it for show.
Seppel - The manner in which he's claimed, used his role, and attempted to organize the town.
Atlseal - Totally trustworthy - at least as to not being mafia. My opinion: complete his remaining contracts ASAP and get him out of our hair before he does become a genuine threat.
?:
Asian
Guardman
Cantrip
TackyDeaths_Vampire
ITF
Cyan - Cyan's claiming style bugged me, but that's all I've seen that tripped me. There's been a lot of stops and starts in attacks, but none of it's seemed obviously faked.
Zionite - The attitude is really extreme, and I can't yet decide if I believe it.
Scum:
Red Omega - Creepy vibes. Major creepy vibes.
AE - Zionite.
Toastboy - he steals things in the night and does other things that I've forgotten. But I remember they were bad, so you should just trust me on that. Kay?
No, I don't think I will. These are some horrible reasons! Your reasons for people being scum are the worst.
And, haven't you been declaring Zionite town all game day? Yeah, you have. What happened?
I'm goaded into activity, I explode with a case, I catch scum, I have difficulty convincing others.
So, when were you goaded into activity which resulted in you making the case on AE? The first thing you did upon entering is state that he was scum and give some meh reasons. If you're talking about this recent stuff, you've had a case out there long before then, just not a formal one.
You also have to wonder why, as scum, I would ignore all other wagons in favor of my scum buddy and continue to do so the entire game.
Oh, but this isn't what you've done at all. Beginning of D2, you voted for Cyan and said absolutely nothing about AE until he called you out for this. It's hard to tell if you're flailing or really just don't remember this ☺☺☺☺.
So, when were you goaded into activity which resulted in you making the case on AE? The first thing you did upon entering is state that he was scum and give some meh reasons. If you're talking about this recent stuff, you've had a case out there long before then, just not a formal one.
No, reasons are different from cases.
Recently I've been told in this game I wasn't doing enough and that my suspicions of AE were half-hearted. I realized no one was going to do this on their own and became more active, both to help the town and because I was being called scum for not backing up my thoughts. You should remember this.
What you call formal/informal cases I call cases/reasons. You can vote for someone and give reasons, or you can case someone and persuade others to vote your way. I find these things very different.
Oh, but this isn't what you've done at all. Beginning of D2, you voted for Cyan and said absolutely nothing about AE until he called you out for this. It's hard to tell if you're flailing or really just don't remember this ☺☺☺☺.
Again, it's the difference between cases and reasons. I've wanted AE lynched my entire game, but I haven't been able to do it by myself. I've hopped wagons because I can't lynch AE on my own. At this point though I think it should be obvious to everyone that AE is scum, not just me. This is what has changed.
Flailing? So first I'm scum for not casing AE, then I'm scum for backing up my points logically. This puts me in an awkward situation here.
I don't see how you can say AE is town at this point. His meta and his play this game both point to him being scum. I've proven this several times.
Point being: I'm either town and you believe me or I'm scum and you can't believe me. These are incompatible ideas that you're putting off as compatible irks me.
A bus at this stage is unlikely, but I don't rule it out.
I'm also not sure where to place you, whether town or scum. So in the interim, I'm not going to descend into the quagmire of second-guessing based on the author of the case, and I prefer to concentrate on the case itself.
@MH - As mentioned, the attitude tells are a bit funky. Otherwise, yeah, I've been pretty happy with him. If you want better reasons in the next week or two, you'll need to convince my professors to call off my exams, my bosses to stop giving me work, my family to disown me, and my girlfriend to break up with me.
So you're banking on the likeliness of someone bussing out of the blue on day 2 to make me scum? Those aren't great odds. Might want to move your bet from "00" to "Even".
I think my problem with Zionite has shifted somewhat. Honestly, your case against AE has some good points. But you seem to think it is some super slam dunk, and it's not. And your ego about it doesn't seem particularly 'in town character' for you.
But I don't see much point faking that as scum, as it wouldn't help you tomorrow if we lynched AE and he were scum. So I'm not really sure what to make of it.
So you're banking on the likeliness of someone bussing out of the blue on day 2 to make me scum? Those aren't great odds. Might want to move your bet from "00" to "Even".
Are you trying to argue me into believing you're town, or to argue I shouldn't believe Archmage is scum? *eyebrow*
Alright. So, I am going to propose a semi-claim. I want everyone to claim that has a win con of gain x gold. It only makes sense that there would be some people with this role. I am currently under the belief that was what Exlight's role was. Especially since there was four night kills.
My suspicion of Cyan is mostly meta. But lets explain that anyways. Cyan's play to me is reminiscent of his play in Joss Whendon mafia. It is also important to not that Cyan stated that Exlight's role was probably partially a SK role and so their would not be a full SK in this game. This is the same approach he took when playing both Joss Whendon and The Asphodel Meadows games. Trying to convince the town that there is no SK. He also then did what he did in both of those other games and instantly claimed. Once again claiming a role that the town does not want to lynch. Furthermore his plan of "I was trying to get the mafia to NK me" is awful. First because he is already and obvious target and so NK him might result in detection or an unsuccessful kill. Secondly because he drew an even bigger target on himself and therefor Nking him would be even worse. Finally because there is probably a few neutrals with kills so that they can steal gold and therefor would not really be helping with getting rid of the real threats. This claim also makes sense for a SK to claim because then who would want to night kill him and risk that he is telling the truth. For me to feel confidant in this though I need if anyones goal is to get gold to come forward.
DV
I think my problem with Zionite has shifted somewhat. Honestly, your case against AE has some good points. But you seem to think it is some super slam dunk, and it's not. And your ego about it doesn't seem particularly 'in town character' for you.
It is a giant slam dunk. You have to be blind not to see that. And if you don't think it's a slam dunk, why are you voting AE?
But I don't see much point faking that as scum, as it wouldn't help you tomorrow if we lynched AE and he were scum. So I'm not really sure what to make of it.
Is it so impossible that I may be a skilled mafia player with adequate reading ability?
Are you trying to argue me into believing you're town, or to argue I shouldn't believe Archmage is scum? *eyebrow*
They're incompatible ideas. Either I'm town and Archmage is scum, or I'm scum and Archmage is town. We can't be scum buddies because no one buses day 2 unprovoked.
For now, while we don't have a confirmed alignment on Archmage, it isn't a big deal that you think I might be scum. But when it's confirmed Archmage is mafia, this should change. It should be obvious, as it was in The Stand Mafia, that I'm town with a damn good reading ability to catch scum. It will make itself obvious later if I'm faking it, so you should go with it for now and decide later if you have doubts.
Because he is not town and I am unsure of whether he is just neutral or anti-town neutral. Plus he has already lied about his role and he is apparently evil/scary enough to scare away the spirits of the dead. So if I see a chance to get rid of atlseal with little to no investment to the town I am going to take it.
Your ignorance is astounding. Let's go through the details:
1( Pale Mage was not a smart target for a SK kill. He wasn't posting much. He was lurky and not under any suspicion. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that the item he used last night is in fact the item he used.
2) My [investigative ability] results support his actions.
3) Atlseal has finally accepted that his best play at this point is to not help the town. He showed spite towards me for bringing him down. I did this to afford us 0.5 extra days. This is all indicative of his role.
4) Exlight, who claimed after Atlseal, also claimed a similar (though not truthful) wincon. Exlight is a neutral. Exlight's actions show that Exlight believed Atlseal's role.
Toastboy - he steals things in the night and does other things that I've forgotten. But I remember they were bad, so you should just trust me on that. Kay?
See The Stand mafia. I come in and am goaded into activity much like here, which leads me to re-read and find Nakamura as scum. I had to single-handedly make that wagon work and build a case from nothing. I get mad when people don't see how obvious it is.
Very similar to my play here. I'm goaded into activity, I explode with a case, I catch scum, I have difficulty convincing others. It's my textbook play really.
Ok I'm fine with my lynch today so I can shove this arrogance right back at him and encourage others to bring this game up when he claims how great his reading of a player is in any other game. Its getting annoying.
How were you goaded into activity? You shouldn't have to be goaded. You came in with an empty vote and were called on it. Now your blaming us for that?
Let me ask again...
So how am I retreating in this game? Where the heck have I been shy?
Can you also bring up your other points? I've already dismantled your others but there must be more because your saying you have a slam dunk case.
Also can someone tell me why Nom would target himself? I didn't look into his role but assassin targeting himself? Yeah right.
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They hate us cause they ain't us.
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Are you kidding? You of all people should want AE lynched. Him bad-mouthing the double vote idea RIGHT UP UNTIL they gave the item to you should be the final nail in the coffin. He set you up Cyan. In the same breath he reversed his idea on the double vote idea and pointed to you. This is not up for debate, AE is caught scum with this.
Nakamura names Archmage, Zionite, Cyan and Atlseal as possible suspects. Archmage distances himself from both the naming and the double vote plan by bolding 'certain' players here. He's putting emphasis on his distancing even. He does not like the idea of getting caught with the double vote.
Archmage never verified he didn't have a double vote. Then he points out Cyan specifically, as if Cyan would be caught with it. This shows AE had knowledge the item was passed to Cyan before Cyan ever said anything about it. Why would a town AE care about Cyan's double vote after previously stating, several times, that Cyan was town? A town AE would assume Cyan as town, and therefore request different players to double vote to scum hunt. This is clearly a scum-motivated Archmage here.
THIS ISN'T A SIGNAL TO YOU GUYS AT ALL? REALLY?
I'm quitting mafia if AE doesn't get lynched. This is seriously the easiest lynch you should ever have to make. This is why I don't bother making cases anymore because you guys talk yourselves into the lynches you want, not the correct ones.
And you make some valid points. And AE seems to have disappeared when it was a good time for him to be around.
I'll let you have the reins for now. Unvote X2, Vote AE X2
Double lynching seems like a great option with an even number of players.
@Atlseal: You're more than welcome to hammer this one for your win-con if you wish.
Have the flu so posting will be down alot. Last time I was on you still did not post your conection of games so...
Plus theres no need to quit mafia if I'm not lynched. Thats just silly. Thing is if I'm lynched you'll be lynched the next day(hopefully). going to do some quick replies but I'm not avoiding anything. If thats what you think go ahead. Pick it apart tomorrow.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I hardly ever declare townies. I have no idea. I'm always suspect off people. You have to be. How was my stance on Nom inconsistent? I really wanted you to be the lynch over anyone because of how you were trying to fabricate a case on me regardless of who else I thought to be scum.
It may be because I'm sick but I don't understand the bolded of these two posts.
This is all wrong. I think you said I never voted......Post 1156
I encouraged the continuing of the double vote. I didn't understand why Naka had a plan to weed the double voter out just to end it with a vote count and then say she just wanted to see if there were others like her. You trying really hard now at misrepn' me.
Vote Zionite.
I won't be back on tonight. I'll make an attempt to be on tomorrow and I'll start from here and reply to whatever.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
That's all nice, but you didn't answer my question: WHY do you want to get rid of atlseal?
Seriously, why would you say things like that? If he's town and you're town, why would lynching you be good?
You went from casing and voting Nom to declaring him town without any explanation as to why you switched.
I hardly call this a fabricated case. It was in my mind all along, but is only now seeing the game. You constantly call my case fabricated simply because it wasn't here yet. How would you know if it was fabricated or not if you've never seen it?
I outlined it in the post before Cyan's double vote on you.
Please show me verification that you double voted and a subsequent votecount proving you did not have the item. Otherwise what you say doesn't matter. I did not see you attempt to double vote ever.
How is this a mis-rep? Instead of going with the plan you ignored it and trashed it's creator. You never even attempted to double vote, so how is that an encouragement for others to try it?
I won't count on it.
That way no one has any reason not to vote AE. If they still want me lynched they will get a chance, but only if I'm wrong about AE and have been the entire game.
If you're both town, then I have a damn good reason not to vote AE. That's pretty selfish of you, y'know?
Doesn't make sense with the given behavioral evidence.
You're talking yourself out of the correct lynches again, Seppel.
Cyan could possibly be the SK. The only thing we'll know for certain from AE's lynch is that Cyan is not mafia. We still won't know for sure if he is town.
OMG show me where I said Nom was town.
Give me a freakin break. Enough with the whoa is me attitude and these lame a$$ jabs. No need to listen to you whine about how wrong your reads have been, enough already.
Nothing but lies now. NOT ONLY DID I DOUBLE VOTE BUT YOU FOLLOWED RIGHT BEHIND ME!!!!!! What the heck. Like I've said before, you don't care how the game is going as long as theres a lynch. You not paying attention. Then you cry. I'm not understanding you here. Are we talking two different things?
That is an excalent idea. Pass me an item and I'll pass it back. As long as it doesn't have the ability to day kill because Zionite won't last. Wait then there is the wifom, scum passing to scum
So how am I retreating in this game? Where the heck have I been shy?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You unvoted Nom and never gave explanation why.
Can you respond to my other concerns as well, since you're well enough to post now?
Because he came in with one vote while we were double voting.
You just don't follow along. I don't know whats killing me more you or this freakn' cold. We were double voting. We then caught Naka in a lie so thats where my vote went.
Thats what the "don't get excited" ment in the top of my post. I won't be posting much. Itemize your other concerns and I'll get to them. Going to bed now. In the meantime can we have more votes on Zionite. I'm showing his case holds no water.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Zionite, the only post I remember you including where AE said Nom was town was from day 2, you know, after Nom died?
AE's right, you're not paying attention. Coupled with the rest of your play, I think you're the lynch for the day.
Vote: Zionite
@ DV: Dude, you gotta give me more than that. TACKY didn't do crap, so you've got a clean slate.
Tell me why you think Cyan's SK. Let's start there.
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I'm done with this. If you guys aren't even going to try then I'm going to do the same. AE is so obviously scum it hurts. I've already stated I don't care if I am lynched as long as he dies. But please make a ☺☺☺☺ing decision and don't waste my time.
Manders
AL
Seppel
Atlseal
?:
Asian
Guardman
Cantrip
Tacky
ITF
Cyan
Zionite
Scum:
Red Omega
AE
Toastboy
Game solved: just kill everyone in the last two categories.
See, now you'll do just fine without me.
It's official. Everyone around me is insane. I've stumbled into an asylum in my sleep.
I already know, this is going to be my favorite post of the game.
Not mafia, cult, or SK? Town enough for my book.
And, yet, last day of AB, you never once quit.
Perhaps Cyan's "defeatism is a scum tell" theory carries some weight.
Fix'd
1) Where's zindabad on your list?
2) Why is atlseal listed as town?
3) Please provide reasons, as you're in no position for me to just trust.
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Because he is not town and I am unsure of whether he is just neutral or anti-town neutral. Plus he has already lied about his role and he is apparently evil/scary enough to scare away the spirits of the dead. So if I see a chance to get rid of atlseal with little to no investment to the town I am going to take it.
More to the point, why are you so concerned with me wanting to get rid of atlseal, a claimed neutral that has been caught lying already?
What a touchy post.
Zionite's "I'll quit mafia if you don't vote A_E" stance is interesting. This has easily been the strangest Mafia day I've ever been in, even without my cult leader gambit.
Also I'm drunk and I've lost my flavor. If someone has an ability that steals flavor, please give back my flavor.
Honestly, this is not at all like his general town play, which is starting to bug me.
1. Zindabad is in the "huh, he exists?" zone.
2. Covered.
3. Reasoning:
Town:
Manders - Your interactions with Seppel.
AL - The wacky gambit is a really good townie tell, and I highly doubt he faked it for show.
Seppel - The manner in which he's claimed, used his role, and attempted to organize the town.
Atlseal - Totally trustworthy - at least as to not being mafia. My opinion: complete his remaining contracts ASAP and get him out of our hair before he does become a genuine threat.
?:
Asian
Guardman
Cantrip
TackyDeaths_Vampire
ITF
Cyan - Cyan's claiming style bugged me, but that's all I've seen that tripped me. There's been a lot of stops and starts in attacks, but none of it's seemed obviously faked.
Zionite - The attitude is really extreme, and I can't yet decide if I believe it.
Scum:
Red Omega - Creepy vibes. Major creepy vibes.
AE - Zionite.
Toastboy - he steals things in the night and does other things that I've forgotten. But I remember they were bad, so you should just trust me on that. Kay?
Zionite (3) - AsianInvasion, Archmage Eternal, MandersHex
Seppel (1) - Guardman
Cyan (1) - Guardman
Archmage Eternal (3) - Cyan, Cyan, Zionite
red 0mega (1) - Zionite
MandersHex(1) - Cantripmancer
Corrections are welcome.
With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.
I will likely be without internet access for the next few days. Skander will take over while I am gone.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Is this correct?
See The Stand mafia. I come in and am goaded into activity much like here, which leads me to re-read and find Nakamura as scum. I had to single-handedly make that wagon work and build a case from nothing. I get mad when people don't see how obvious it is.
Very similar to my play here. I'm goaded into activity, I explode with a case, I catch scum, I have difficulty convincing others. It's my textbook play really.
Being listed as the sole reason someone is scum makes me fuzzy inside, however it worries me that you trust my case while not trusting me as town. If you're not sure of my towniness, you wouldn't accept my case as legitimate. If you think AE is scum based on my case, then you have to take into account under what circumstances I, as AE's scum buddy, would throw him under the bus with no provocation to do so. You also have to wonder why, as scum, I would ignore all other wagons in favor of my scum buddy and continue to do so the entire game.
Point being: I'm either town and you believe me or I'm scum and you can't believe me. These are incompatible ideas that you're putting off as compatible irks me.
Jeez, Cyan's right. People's inability to pay attention to this game is awful.
No, I don't think I will. These are some horrible reasons! Your reasons for people being scum are the worst.
And, haven't you been declaring Zionite town all game day? Yeah, you have. What happened?
So, when were you goaded into activity which resulted in you making the case on AE? The first thing you did upon entering is state that he was scum and give some meh reasons. If you're talking about this recent stuff, you've had a case out there long before then, just not a formal one.
Oh, but this isn't what you've done at all. Beginning of D2, you voted for Cyan and said absolutely nothing about AE until he called you out for this. It's hard to tell if you're flailing or really just don't remember this ☺☺☺☺.
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No, reasons are different from cases.
Recently I've been told in this game I wasn't doing enough and that my suspicions of AE were half-hearted. I realized no one was going to do this on their own and became more active, both to help the town and because I was being called scum for not backing up my thoughts. You should remember this.
What you call formal/informal cases I call cases/reasons. You can vote for someone and give reasons, or you can case someone and persuade others to vote your way. I find these things very different.
Again, it's the difference between cases and reasons. I've wanted AE lynched my entire game, but I haven't been able to do it by myself. I've hopped wagons because I can't lynch AE on my own. At this point though I think it should be obvious to everyone that AE is scum, not just me. This is what has changed.
Flailing? So first I'm scum for not casing AE, then I'm scum for backing up my points logically. This puts me in an awkward situation here.
I don't see how you can say AE is town at this point. His meta and his play this game both point to him being scum. I've proven this several times.
A bus at this stage is unlikely, but I don't rule it out.
I'm also not sure where to place you, whether town or scum. So in the interim, I'm not going to descend into the quagmire of second-guessing based on the author of the case, and I prefer to concentrate on the case itself.
@MH - As mentioned, the attitude tells are a bit funky. Otherwise, yeah, I've been pretty happy with him. If you want better reasons in the next week or two, you'll need to convince my professors to call off my exams, my bosses to stop giving me work, my family to disown me, and my girlfriend to break up with me.
But I don't see much point faking that as scum, as it wouldn't help you tomorrow if we lynched AE and he were scum. So I'm not really sure what to make of it.
Sometimes, I wonder if it's just a giant bus.
Are you trying to argue me into believing you're town, or to argue I shouldn't believe Archmage is scum? *eyebrow*
My suspicion of Cyan is mostly meta. But lets explain that anyways. Cyan's play to me is reminiscent of his play in Joss Whendon mafia. It is also important to not that Cyan stated that Exlight's role was probably partially a SK role and so their would not be a full SK in this game. This is the same approach he took when playing both Joss Whendon and The Asphodel Meadows games. Trying to convince the town that there is no SK. He also then did what he did in both of those other games and instantly claimed. Once again claiming a role that the town does not want to lynch. Furthermore his plan of "I was trying to get the mafia to NK me" is awful. First because he is already and obvious target and so NK him might result in detection or an unsuccessful kill. Secondly because he drew an even bigger target on himself and therefor Nking him would be even worse. Finally because there is probably a few neutrals with kills so that they can steal gold and therefor would not really be helping with getting rid of the real threats. This claim also makes sense for a SK to claim because then who would want to night kill him and risk that he is telling the truth. For me to feel confidant in this though I need if anyones goal is to get gold to come forward.
DV
Please use ¶.
Sincerely,
atlseal
It is a giant slam dunk. You have to be blind not to see that. And if you don't think it's a slam dunk, why are you voting AE?
Is it so impossible that I may be a skilled mafia player with adequate reading ability?
Yeah, you take that bet and see where it leads us.
They're incompatible ideas. Either I'm town and Archmage is scum, or I'm scum and Archmage is town. We can't be scum buddies because no one buses day 2 unprovoked.
For now, while we don't have a confirmed alignment on Archmage, it isn't a big deal that you think I might be scum. But when it's confirmed Archmage is mafia, this should change. It should be obvious, as it was in The Stand Mafia, that I'm town with a damn good reading ability to catch scum. It will make itself obvious later if I'm faking it, so you should go with it for now and decide later if you have doubts.
Your ignorance is astounding. Let's go through the details:
1( Pale Mage was not a smart target for a SK kill. He wasn't posting much. He was lurky and not under any suspicion. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that the item he used last night is in fact the item he used.
2) My [investigative ability] results support his actions.
3) Atlseal has finally accepted that his best play at this point is to not help the town. He showed spite towards me for bringing him down. I did this to afford us 0.5 extra days. This is all indicative of his role.
4) Exlight, who claimed after Atlseal, also claimed a similar (though not truthful) wincon. Exlight is a neutral. Exlight's actions show that Exlight believed Atlseal's role.
Because I'm trying to get your head out of your ass and make you be a useful townie.
Duhhhokay. Unvote, vote Toastboy.
I only need 22,820 more gold to win.
Is this your only win condition?
Look how Zionite twists things around.
Ok I'm fine with my lynch today so I can shove this arrogance right back at him and encourage others to bring this game up when he claims how great his reading of a player is in any other game. Its getting annoying.
How were you goaded into activity? You shouldn't have to be goaded. You came in with an empty vote and were called on it. Now your blaming us for that?
Let me ask again...
Can you also bring up your other points? I've already dismantled your others but there must be more because your saying you have a slam dunk case.
Also can someone tell me why Nom would target himself? I didn't look into his role but assassin targeting himself? Yeah right.
They hate us cause they ain't us.