Yeah, but trying to explain yourself isn't really. I see the point about him using too many qualifiers, but I think that it's just because he's nervous about trying to break out of the random phase.
Kinda more suspicious of Manders/Seppel for the quick jump on Gigas. Seppel more really, as he simply disappeared after the quick vote. Gigas's responses aren't great, but gutfeel says his intentions are town. Manders stuck in the conversation and feels pretty town, but that initial attack pinged my scumdar a bit.
Those are the only reads I have so far. Need to dig through the thread and see what I missed.
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Well, not really sure how to explain that other than that I simply don't like to have suspicion on me, as town or scum. Besides, explaining things hasn't turned out badly for me before.
Fair enough. I feel the same way about suspicion.
But, yeah, over-explaining could cause a backlash.
So there are two ways to interperate Exlight's posts. Either 1: he's nervous and doesn't know what to post or 2: he's posting gibberish because it's the RVS. I don't see either of these happening in a scum mindset.
Yeah, but trying to explain yourself isn't really. I see the point about him using too many qualifiers, but I think that it's just because he's nervous about trying to break out of the random phase.
coupled with this convince me I probably overreacted to Gigas' action.
Unvote
Although I'm also highly tempted to call ExLight as scum just because Nom said he was town.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I propose someone put up the following contracts (repeat for every player):
Task: Use an investigation-type ability on Cyan
Time limit: No time limit
Conditions: You cannot have accepted any other contract this game day.
Reward: 1 gold
Task: Use an investigation-type ability on Cyan
Time limit: No time limit
Conditions: You cannot have accepted any other contract this game day.
Reward: 2 gold
Claim the 1 gold reward if the player is town. Claim the 2 gold reward if the player is scum.
I think my opinions on the RVS are well established enough that I need not repeat them every game.
Trying to come up with some clever contract. It's not really working.
I can't come up with anything I like so far. The whole "don't try and break the game" wet blanket is bringing me down. At this point I'm thinking of contracts like a garden sewn with random seeds. It will take a while to get anything out of it, and I'm not sure what we'll get.
So there are two ways to interperate Exlight's posts. Either 1: he's nervous and doesn't know what to post or 2: he's posting gibberish because it's the RVS. I don't see either of these happening in a scum mindset.
Ergo, Exlight is town.
QED.
1. Weak scum tell (very weak, really, but enough to raise interest), and 2. is null. Think I like you, though.
@Azrael: Is this the part where we wait to see how atlseal reacts to your statement?
Yes, yes it is. We are not now, nor have we ever been scum together. The only game I've ever played with Az was Magic mafia, my first game here many years ago. In fact, by strange coincidence (and if I remember correctly), it was you, me, and loran that brought him back as a VT zombie token.
It was an Az trap, but for whom, I have no idea.
=============================
Why did I vote Manders and why am I voting Manders are two different questions:
- Why did I vote Manders?
This:
So there are two ways to interperate Exlight's posts. Either 1: he's nervous and doesn't know what to post or 2: he's posting gibberish because it's the RVS. I don't see either of these happening in a scum mindset.
Ergo, Exlight is town.
QED.
lrd already insinuated this and Pale Mage hinted at it, but why don't you see 1, or heck, even 2 happening from a scum mindset?
Not to mention false dichotomy. The proof is hardly logically sound.
==========================
- Why am I voting Manders?
Combined with the jump on Gigas:
Quote from Manders »
Uh, RVS, man. Why so jumpy?
Unvote
No new vote as RVS is over and/or ending as I type this.
I would think Manders knows Seppel well enough, that her response seems completely out of line with what anyone familiar with Seppel's play would conclude.
lrd already insinuated this and Pale Mage hinted at it, but why don't you see 1, or heck, even 2 happening from a scum mindset?
Not to mention false dichotomy. The proof is hardly logically sound.
Agreed.
Quote from atlseal »
I would think Manders knows Seppel well enough, that her response seems completely out of line with what anyone familiar with Seppel's play would conclude.
For a contented vote, she's quick to unvote once she gets the slightest resistance.
- Why did I not initially give my reasons?
I wanted to see how other players would react.
And what have you learned, young Padawan?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I was expecting that someone would use it as an excuse to jump onto me. Try as best I might, it's been a long while since I've been able to play in a non-basic game. It's something that would work quite well in a game like that. I just need to step up my game.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I was expecting that someone would use it as an excuse to jump onto me. Try as best I might, it's been a long while since I've been able to play in a non-basic game. It's something that would work quite well in a game like that. I just need to step up my game.
What does getting someone to jump on you accomplish, in your opinion?
Does that make the person more likely to be scum? Or Town? What?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
What does getting someone to jump on you accomplish, in your opinion?
Does that make the person more likely to be scum? Or Town? What?
Opportunistic voting is most definitely a scum sign, but since nobody did, it's a moot point.
It's not like I placed that vote right in the middle of wagon appearing to others as if I was just trying to blend in (which would actually justify a vote from someone else).
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
If you are going to vote someone and not give a reason for doing so, it might be fine. Reasons are not always required.
If you are voting without giving a reason hoping to get a reaction out of the person who you are voting for it might be fine. Reactions to being voted for can be valuable.
If you are voting without giving a reason hoping to get a reaction out of other people who see you vote - specifically, trying to see if anyone will jump on you for your unexplained vote - this is poor.
This is especially poor if you actually meant it as a serious vote, which, apparently you did (see: your subsequent justification of said vote). Who are you trying to catch here?
It's not like I placed that vote right in the middle of wagon appearing to others as if I was just trying to blend in (which would actually justify a vote from someone else).
Yeah? And?
Are you trying to pre-emptively explain to me why your vote wasn't scummy?
I am not voting yet:
Vote: atlseal
I do not like his face.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Oh man, I can't believe I forgot to subliminally claim in my first post this game.
Gee, that sucks.
Subliminally claiming is the greatest.
(sometimes)
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
This is especially poor if you actually meant it as a serious vote, which, apparently you did (see: your subsequent justification of said vote). Who are you trying to catch here?
Scum. Why is it poor tactic?
Are you trying to pre-emptively explain to me why your vote wasn't scummy?
Nope, explaining why it would theoretically work when I'm starting the wagon vs. not if it were to be tried in the middle of a wagon.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Hmm I'm not sure. You could have been trying to lure a townie in and hammer on him for voting trying to create a facade. Get a wagon going on a townie and justifing your actions. Thats scummy
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Quote from Toastboy »
words
Are you going to provide anything original/useful?
Btw, I'm fairly certain PM is town.
I think it's a poor scum tactic because the people responding to your ploy don't KNOW if the person you are attacking are town or scum, so their reactions could come from any number of mindsets. I think he's saying it's just not very reliable.
Although I'm also highly tempted to call ExLight as scum just because Nom said he was town.
Pretty sure MH is town this time around.
Also, Vote atlseal
It's not like I placed that vote right in the middle of wagon appearing to others as if I was just trying to blend in (which would actually justify a vote from someone else).
This statement really bugs me. It seems unnecessarily defensive for an action that no one had even cast in a negative light yet.
Exlight also seems like a good scum candidate, but atlseal is my #1.
No, sir. You don't get to chastize people for not asking you why you voted when I already had and you ignored it. Doesn't work like that.
Did you read what I wrote? I wasn't chastising him for questioning me. That's the sort of behavior I'd expect. I'm chastising him for not questioning me while he questioned dC.
Just looked back, Nom owes me an answer about that as well.
Seriously, that's 3 votes with no justifications. This is getting preposterous.
Justifications have been provided. You just seem to be ignoring them now.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
This statement really bugs me. It seems unnecessarily defensive for an action that no one had even cast in a negative light yet.
To say again, I could understand why it would be a bad play if I made it at another place in a wagon. Let's see if I can phrase it another way:
If I placed the vote in the middle of someone's wagon without providing a justification, people would have a very good reason to vote me for it. In that situation, it is a poor tactic. That I agree with.
However, what I did was use it at the beginning of a wagon where nobody should reasonably have a reason to jump on it like I was expecting someone would, which is why I thought it was a good tactic.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Yeah, but trying to explain yourself isn't really. I see the point about him using too many qualifiers, but I think that it's just because he's nervous about trying to break out of the random phase.
Kinda more suspicious of Manders/Seppel for the quick jump on Gigas. Seppel more really, as he simply disappeared after the quick vote. Gigas's responses aren't great, but gutfeel says his intentions are town. Manders stuck in the conversation and feels pretty town, but that initial attack pinged my scumdar a bit.
Those are the only reads I have so far. Need to dig through the thread and see what I missed.
Need to reread the thread to pick up clues, if there are any solid ones at this point.
I raised my brow at Exlight with that post so I'm not to bothered by Gigas.
I say we refrain from any more contract talk as it is unhelpful and could lead to an overzealous player getting mod killed.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
"Toastboy is scum" seems like only a single train of thought to me, but math was never my strong suit.
Oh Az, forever the riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
This post seems kind of over the top.
Fair enough. I feel the same way about suspicion.
But, yeah, over-explaining could cause a backlash.
Good...for...you?
This....
coupled with this convince me I probably overreacted to Gigas' action.
Unvote
Fishing much?
But I /barn AE's "overzealous" comment.
Why? I'm not seeing what anyone else is seeing. I just see typical Light being random.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
If there were ever a player with whom Churchill's quote did apply, it is Az.
Mostly excited at the chance of getting to play with him after many years.
what, you mean its illegal to vote in the rvs now? why wasnt i informed?
Fascinating.
Eh, cut him some slack. It's been a while since we've been scum together.
im guessing this WAS on purpose?
@Azrael: Is this the part where we wait to see how atlseal reacts to your statement?
The above is a serious vote.
Although I'm also highly tempted to call ExLight as scum just because Nom said he was town.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
@DC: Based on your custom title, I'm guessing you saw the UBW movie. Did you think it was awful?
At least you included yourself
I would like to know as well.
smoke_Killah
I don't understand how this is meant to work.
No, really. I don't get it.
I can't come up with anything I like so far. The whole "don't try and break the game" wet blanket is bringing me down. At this point I'm thinking of contracts like a garden sewn with random seeds. It will take a while to get anything out of it, and I'm not sure what we'll get.
Why?
Is that all ya got? I'll bet you can do better. Dig for me.
1. Weak scum tell (very weak, really, but enough to raise interest), and 2. is null. Think I like you, though.
Thirded or fourthed or whatever the appropriate number is on the manders vote.
Can you explain the second comment (Nom, ExLight)?
Any reason that you asked those two in particular?
smoke_Killah
Have you been scum in the past together?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Yes, yes it is. We are not now, nor have we ever been scum together. The only game I've ever played with Az was Magic mafia, my first game here many years ago. In fact, by strange coincidence (and if I remember correctly), it was you, me, and loran that brought him back as a VT zombie token.
It was an Az trap, but for whom, I have no idea.
=============================
Why did I vote Manders and why am I voting Manders are two different questions:
- Why did I vote Manders?
This:
In response to:
i.e.: Jumping on Gigas for what I felt was a rather innocuous post.
==============================
- Why did I not initially give my reasons?
I wanted to see how other players would react.
===============================
lrd already insinuated this and Pale Mage hinted at it, but why don't you see 1, or heck, even 2 happening from a scum mindset?
Not to mention false dichotomy. The proof is hardly logically sound.
==========================
- Why am I voting Manders?
Combined with the jump on Gigas:
I would think Manders knows Seppel well enough, that her response seems completely out of line with what anyone familiar with Seppel's play would conclude.
For a contented vote, she's quick to unvote once she gets the slightest resistance.
==========================
I get you questioning a vote without justificaiton, but why question dC's vote and not mine?
Hmmph, predictable. *sniff*
Maybe I don't. What are you going to do about it?
Vote: Manders.
Scum Team: Manders, Toastboy, X, Y, Z.
Cop: DC
Vig: Axel
Self-Protecting Doc: Az
These are my current reads. I am sure they are hawt tech.
i like this guy. a great sense of humor
Caught that, too, did ya?
Deflection by admission, followed by secular reference to establish the personal connection.
And the EBWODP to look like you're not just flying under the radar.
Purposeful odd calling out of two players to draw attention to them and establish "link" to them.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Oh, the wifom. Like Seppel, but with a purpose.
let's
put early pressure on Cyan.
I want to get a read on him.
Unvote, vote Cyan
And what have you learned, young Padawan?
Hey, vote Cyan.
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That it didn't work like I thought it would.
What were you expecting?
I was expecting that someone would use it as an excuse to jump onto me. Try as best I might, it's been a long while since I've been able to play in a non-basic game. It's something that would work quite well in a game like that. I just need to step up my game.
What does getting someone to jump on you accomplish, in your opinion?
Does that make the person more likely to be scum? Or Town? What?
Hey, vote Cyan.
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V/LA until November 1, if I'm posting, then I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
Opportunistic voting is most definitely a scum sign, but since nobody did, it's a moot point.
It's not like I placed that vote right in the middle of wagon appearing to others as if I was just trying to blend in (which would actually justify a vote from someone else).
If you are going to vote someone and not give a reason for doing so, it might be fine. Reasons are not always required.
If you are voting without giving a reason hoping to get a reaction out of the person who you are voting for it might be fine. Reactions to being voted for can be valuable.
If you are voting without giving a reason hoping to get a reaction out of other people who see you vote - specifically, trying to see if anyone will jump on you for your unexplained vote - this is poor.
This is especially poor if you actually meant it as a serious vote, which, apparently you did (see: your subsequent justification of said vote). Who are you trying to catch here?
Yeah? And?
Are you trying to pre-emptively explain to me why your vote wasn't scummy?
I am not voting yet:
Vote: atlseal
I do not like his face.
someone wants me dead?
Also, unvote (Gigas RVS I think)
Gee, that sucks.
Subliminally claiming is the greatest.
(sometimes)
Scum. Why is it poor tactic?
Nope, explaining why it would theoretically work when I'm starting the wagon vs. not if it were to be tried in the middle of a wagon.
Hmm I'm not sure. You could have been trying to lure a townie in and hammer on him for voting trying to create a facade. Get a wagon going on a townie and justifing your actions. Thats scummy
They hate us cause they ain't us.
He doesn't. That statement was made to troll for responses. You're feeding the troll!
Same as with atlseal, provide reasons or have it be ignored.
Seriously, people. Reasonless votes are pointless.
Hilarious, oh great bastard-mod!
/barn Cantrip on the tacked-on-edness of this post.
I asked that ages ago and you ignored it. Pardon me if I return the kindness.
No, sir. You don't get to chastize people for not asking you why you voted when I already had and you ignored it. Doesn't work like that.
Seriously, that's 3 votes with no justifications. This is getting preposterous.
I could probably be swayed on this, though. I'd like to see more from him.
Start providing content, or I'll be forced to conclude you are scum and I was wrong about you.
Are you going to provide anything original/useful?
Btw, I'm fairly certain PM is town.
I think it's a poor scum tactic because the people responding to your ploy don't KNOW if the person you are attacking are town or scum, so their reactions could come from any number of mindsets. I think he's saying it's just not very reliable.
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Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Pretty sure MH is town this time around.
Also, Vote atlseal
This statement really bugs me. It seems unnecessarily defensive for an action that no one had even cast in a negative light yet.
Exlight also seems like a good scum candidate, but atlseal is my #1.
Did you read what I wrote? I wasn't chastising him for questioning me. That's the sort of behavior I'd expect. I'm chastising him for not questioning me while he questioned dC.
Just looked back, Nom owes me an answer about that as well.
Justifications have been provided. You just seem to be ignoring them now.
To say again, I could understand why it would be a bad play if I made it at another place in a wagon. Let's see if I can phrase it another way:
If I placed the vote in the middle of someone's wagon without providing a justification, people would have a very good reason to vote me for it. In that situation, it is a poor tactic. That I agree with.
However, what I did was use it at the beginning of a wagon where nobody should reasonably have a reason to jump on it like I was expecting someone would, which is why I thought it was a good tactic.