I guess I'm going to take a stance and say i.bug looks alright to me.
I personally never got over the whole not using softening words things.
At some point, I'm pretty sure I got a wagon started on me for pretty much the same reason as i.bug has the wagon on him. And, checking the sig, I was town that game.
Maybe I'm being soft because I'm empathizing too much, but I can understand exactly why someone would want to bring a lack of certainty with them when playing mafia.
Unvote, by the way, since I'm pretty sure the wagon I was on died about three pages ago.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I've heard being aggressive is a good thing. Figured I would give it a try. My more cautious nature is still slipping in there, though. It's a tough habit to get rid of.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Well this game is moving along quite fast. Hard to keep up with it almoost. Reading along something about V just irks me. I don't like his interactions with town Manders and his vote on AI is just teribad. He is definatly on my scumdar fos V
In the mean time I support pressure on Az, his playstyle so far is similar to symbiote and with him being scum there I got to wonder if he isn't scum here to. vote azrael
/barn raf points about tilde, and ai. Still happy with pressueing az. I suscribe to the concentrate on one issue at a time style of play.
I really didn't like this post, but now he's replaced out. Gah.
@Az: Are you saying you're Iran, or not?I'm not sure how this wouldn't be a good way to lock players in... what are they going to claim, Sealand?
I'm not convinced scum are going to have any reason to lie about the country they are from. There IS a distinct risk that having our countries in the open will cause problems. I think this is a greater risk, for now, than locking scum into a country claim. Especially in a game which, as I read the rules, has daytalk.
The sad thing is I *DID* have my own opinion RafK just got there first and I was stupid enough not to post at least some of it cause I was tired so now it can't be my opinion anymore.
Incidentally, I believe this because he voted directly after the thing which made me also want to vote AI. It made sense that the reasons would be much the same. And I am reading V as strongly town anyway.
I suppose after playing CCMIV I shouldn't expect Day Ones to unfold at 100 posts/day. I didn't mean to imply that nothing was happening, just that we should focus our efforts more and post random stage crap less.
I didn't feel we really were doing random stage at that point, or that your comment was referring to doing less random stuff.
I also know you've played enough games to be familiar with what a normal day 1 is like. And this one was MORE active than normal (at least it seemed so to me).
I feel that you are making up an excuse here, and that's a worse sign for you than the original comment.
I also see nothing wrong with supporting pressure against multiple players if they do things that bother me.
Sure, but it's very early to have that many people to be supporting pressure against. It feels like you were dangling many lines and seeing which one attracted bites.
Quote from AI »
OK, good to know that your vote wasn't for no reason.
Now, if you really "think of [me] as a townie at least for now," why are you still voting me? Curious.
He didn't say he thought of you as a townie at least for now. He said the opposite. The full quote was "AI has left himself open and given assurance to waaaaaay to many wagons at once for me to think of him as a townie at least for now." I would give you benefit of the doubt here, except for the odd way you chopped up the quote.
Quote from AI »
Actually I'm beginning to think you're scum because you, like Az, are quite irrelevant at the moment.
@DYH - It's definitely a very off-kilter position for him to take, that we're not contributing two days into the thread, but it's not a scum perspective. It's the perspective of a zealous townie, trying hard himself, who thinks he sees a couple of big guns apparently not pulling their weight.
I'm not seeing that. I don't see AI holding you and DYH up on a pedestal enough to really think that way nor that he would see himself as a hard-working townie and be angered by people who post less than him.
AI's behaviour here reminds me a great deal of LOTR2. Talks a big game, goes straight for the sardonic comments when attacked or criticised, tries to play up confusion in other people's posts which isn't necessarily there, makes unnecessary "helpful townie" comments. Exprience may have made him a bit less twitchy, but it still looks very similar to me.
It's a mistake to distill the initial case to merely a overaggression/timidity. You've got the wording tell DYH pointed out. The ****-sure arrogance of his retort, asking for my reasoning on his case. Reliance on catch-phrases instead of original thought. Bandwagoning. Subtly painting my actions as insidious. In four sentences he gave us a virtual menagerie of scummitude.
I've heard being aggressive is a good thing. Figured I would give it a try. My more cautious nature is still slipping in there, though. It's a tough habit to get rid of.
*frown* I'm not getting any clear town signals from his responses. I'm not reassured. All his explanations are easy and simple, something I could see scum crafting. And then this response in particular seems false. He was trying out a new playstyle, but the new aggressive playstyle was so far against his overwhelmingly cautious nature that he couldn't quite pull it off?
Either way you cut it, there's a definite edge of falseness to his posts. Either that note of falsity is because he was trying a new townie style and failed (seems awfully convenient, and tailored to meet my accusation and build on his previous statements), or more likely to my mind, the tension is because he's not accustomed to making attacks/being aggressive as scum.
He's running a very cool and collected defense, which is a good way to defuse a lot of townies' suspicions. But it's a null tell for alignment, and his actual explanations are not encouraging.
Holy hello, this entire game is tl;dr. Not to mention advancing at way too fast a pace fore me, especially since I will be gone for over two days. I hate to do it but I have to @mod replace out
This is for the better of all people playing.
Not suprised by this - he made an earlier post indicating the game was going fast. Call me crazy, but I feel people who do this usually end up being town.
I typically play games cautiously. I have since learned this isn't really the right approach with Mafia, but I'm still working that into my system. When I'm not certain of something, I usually don't try to pretend I'm 100% on it.
Seems that's something I should just start doing.
(fakeedit:THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN!)
This is the kinda stuff you spew as scum. Vote iBug.
I've heard being aggressive is a good thing. Figured I would give it a try. My more cautious nature is still slipping in there, though. It's a tough habit to get rid of.
Again, scum-spewing BULLOWWWWWWWWWWWWKNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYY!!! There's no need to ditch habits or whatever - you're trying to cover yourself from what Azrael said, and it has lead you into a trap into a very dark corner.
This whole post was painful to read. Random stuff, and nothing at all original.
Post moar
I find this post amusing.
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Metal Gear Solid 3
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Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I didn't feel we really were doing random stage at that point, or that your comment was referring to doing less random stuff.
I also know you've played enough games to be familiar with what a normal day 1 is like. And this one was MORE active than normal (at least it seemed so to me).
I feel that you are making up an excuse here, and that's a worse sign for you than the original comment.
I think you're stretching pretty hard here.
Some players were trying to advance the game state while others were still posting junk for lulz.
I liked the pace of CCMIV's Day One and want to see that in other games. Big deal.
Sure, but it's very early to have that many people to be supporting pressure against. It feels like you were dangling many lines and seeing which one attracted bites.
Again, stretching. If I'm mildly-to-moderately suspicious of five people, I don't see anything wrong with saying as much. Stop focusing on just possible pro-scum motivations behind my actions and consider possible pro-town motivations.
He didn't say he thought of you as a townie at least for now. He said the opposite. The full quote was "AI has left himself open and given assurance to waaaaaay to many wagons at once for me to think of him as a townie at least for now." I would give you benefit of the doubt here, except for the odd way you chopped up the quote.
"Called out?" Let's see, DYH specifically ignored the fact that I said I wasn't trying to suck the fun out of the game and sarcastically implied that I indeed was. Then he voted me without actually posting a relevant reason. I'd say that my responses were quite warranted considering the circumstances.
I'm not seeing that. I don't see AI holding you and DYH up on a pedestal enough to really think that way nor that he would see himself as a hard-working townie and be angered by people who post less than him.
I actually called Az my hero (semi-jokingly) not two weeks ago. I'm sure you remember that.
Also, I may have exaggerated somewhat; so what. You're really stretching this for all it's worth.
AI's behaviour here reminds me a great deal of LOTR2. Talks a big game, goes straight for the sardonic comments when attacked or criticised, tries to play up confusion in other people's posts which isn't necessarily there, makes unnecessary "helpful townie" comments. Exprience may have made him a bit less twitchy, but it still looks very similar to me.
Ace is still here and alive. Australia's federal election is basically nearing a hung parliament, and I work at various levels on the election for said government. Needless to say, I have had little time since yesterday's election.
That said, I'll be reading through and catching up in the coming day or so.
Yes, let's set a precedent for lynching before the game even begins!!
1 - You don't have any crack for me?
2 - That's not my name.
He's obviously indicating that I can get crack from him, unlike everyone else. Are you trying to compete with him by signaling it in another way?
O god...and it somehow worked regardless because of the horrendously scewed numbers that doomed the town from the beginning.
No freaking doubt. In other words: Amen.
Not suprised by this - he made an earlier post indicating the game was going fast. Call me crazy, but I feel people who do this usually end up being town.
Yeah, might want to focus on the "or so" part of that.
This is the kinda stuff you spew as scum. Vote iBug.
Word up, dawg.
Again, scum-spewing BULLOWWWWWWWWWWWWKNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYY!!! There's no need to ditch habits or whatever - you're trying to cover yourself from what Azrael said, and it has lead you into a trap into a very dark corner.
You're pretending to post content, but all you've done here is barn a bunch of other statements. I'm not going to OMGUS you here, but I am throwing a FoS your way. Maybe I'll take you seriously if you actually get involved in one of the discussions.
Quote from Some One »
This is the kinda stuff you spew as scum. Vote iBug.
Is this supposed to be a meta read or a general "you?"
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
You're pretending to post content, but all you've done here is barn a bunch of other statements. I'm not going to OMGUS you here, but I am throwing a FoS your way. Maybe I'll take you seriously if you actually get involved in one of the discussions.
Is this supposed to be a meta read or a general "you?"
OMGUS is a term used in a lot of situations I don't think it applies to. If you dislike how someone voted you as opposed to that someone voted you, it's not an OMGUS. I think you are too concerned with the way you'll look if you vote him.
iBug (6) - Az, DYH, Zchinque, Vezok, Some One, DKD
Azrael (3) - WoD, iBug, Tordeck
AsianInvasion (2) - ~Tilde~, V
Some One (2) - Talore, AI
Vezok(2) - Skander, Manders
DYH (1) - Emo_Pinata
Not counted any of Az' hydravotes, as I have no idea what they mean, if anything.
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Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
OMGUS is a term used in a lot of situations I don't think it applies to. If you dislike how someone voted you as opposed to that someone voted you, it's not an OMGUS. I think you are too concerned with the way you'll look if you vote him.
Vote: ibug
Well, to be fair to him, if I were a relatively new player in his position right now I'd be stepping lightly too.
Have you ever played with this kid before? If so, you should realize that he is the poster child for throwing out "traditional" scum tells because he commits them as town, scum, and neutral alignments, not to mention he often commits classic logical fallacies and tries to pass it off as legitimate reasoning.
I've heard of his reputation, but are you trying to say that can vote someone over meta that doesn't exist as town??
If Skander doesn't want tl;dr, then I'll try this:
(note: read all of them anyway. the divisions just notate who I am responding to)
You could read it?
Sure.
Family Mafia was your last town game, yes. Reading that game, you were laying out all your thoughts on the table from the start.
Before that, you were in Ghost Town and Order of the Stick. Similar cases. When you attacked/voted somebody, you explained your thoughts. You preferred discussion to immediate action.
Here, you came in, stated some alignment opinions, then didn't explain any until 236 (on AI), and even added another unexplained accusation at WoD (apparently a "legit target"). You've been more like your town self as the game has gone on, but, for all I know, that could just be you settling (because you wouldn't have been scum since absolutely ages ago, correct?)
Right, last time I was scum was a long time ago. But so were Ghost Town and OoTS. WoD was a fairly self-explanatory sentiment anyways I thought.
Uh-huh. Manders (who you thought was town at the time), was confused by this in 141. Why didn't you clarify that to her?
I must have missed that.
Third vote, I think that you'll find. AI and Manders were first.
even so, not quite a wagon.
Well, you didn't mention any of the posts that you apparently voted me for.
I see you really didn't like my first post. 'll try to be more expressive in the future.
Yeh, except that I've been making big posts forever.
Yeah, like I said to MH, so long as it's not being used as a tactic.
I thought that AI's first argument was that the scumtell that I had on Manders wasn't there, and that he was saying "no, she's being open", which I argued against by further explaining my point. AI's next post made it clear that he was actually arguing that the thing just not a tell for Manders, hence that he's arguing straight-up meta.
Yeah, that reads nicely. I'm good with you.
In Legions Mafia, he voted somebody (a scumbuddy), for using the word "we".
In Cubus Mafia, he voted a claimed miller because that person had falseclaimed miller in a previous game.
It's basically his MO now.
What was he as in Cubus? Are you saying it's his MO regardless of alignment?
=====
The iBug situation is murky right now. I'm willing to give him some leeway for the time being.
I've heard of his reputation, but are you trying to say that can vote someone over meta that doesn't exist as town??
See above. If he is really that bad I'll unvote him but if that's the case I don't see how anyone can ever read him.
Without claiming to be an expert on vez, I believe there are some differences between his town and scum meta. But brazen, crappy votes, and completely unwarranted assuredness of himself when all he's really doing is barning, seems to be part of both.
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Without claiming to be an expert on vez, I believe there are some differences between his town and scum meta. But brazen, crappy votes, and completely unwarranted assuredness of himself when all he's really doing is barning, seems to be part of both.
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Make that, "that's a nice way to spin it after you just unvoted the man..."
That's what it looks like, so that's what I said. I don't see much other purpose to it. Is it possible that he has multivotes? Sure. But he makes it sound like he does this frequently, so obviously he does it to mess with people.
Maybe he's trying to troll for reactions, maybe he's trying to draw scum away from power roles, maybe he actually has multivotes.
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town. That doesn't mean I stop questioning what he's doing.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town.
What gives you that feeling?
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
That's what it looks like, so that's what I said. I don't see much other purpose to it. Is it possible that he has multivotes? Sure. But he makes it sound like he does this frequently, so obviously he does it to mess with people.
Maybe he's trying to troll for reactions, maybe he's trying to draw scum away from power roles, maybe he actually has multivotes.
Maybe it's an insidious plot to explain who I suspect. *twirls mustache*
Quote from IBug »
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town. That doesn't mean I stop questioning what he's doing.
I've heard of his reputation, but are you trying to say that can vote someone over meta that doesn't exist as town??
I recently read a post somewhere that explained vezokpiraka's playstyle quite succinctly, though now I can't find it for the life of me. In short, regardless of alignment, he tries to survive to the endgame. That generally is exactly what the town doesn't want because he is inherently a threat as scum or neutral and is often a liability as town.
Given a little bit of rope, scum-vezok often hangs himself. I recommend letting him simmer in his own juices for a while.
Have you ever played with this kid before? If so, you should realize that he is the poster child for throwing out "traditional" scum tells because he commits them as town, scum, and neutral alignments, not to mention he often commits classic logical fallacies and tries to pass it off as legitimate reasoning. Also, my condolences.
I recently read a post somewhere that explained vezokpiraka's playstyle quite succinctly, though now I can't find it for the life of me. In short, regardless of alignment, he tries to survive to the endgame. That generally is exactly what the town doesn't want because he is inherently a threat as scum or neutral and is often a liability as town.
Given a little bit of rope, scum-vezok often hangs himself. I recommend letting him simmer in his own juices for a while.
Vez is not that difficult - his main goal is to survive until end game every game. It explains most of the choices he makes, and letting him go completely is a bad idea because of that.
.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Just out of curiosity: why did you mention it, then?
I liked the pun.
That was a relic of before I understood what you were doing in your initial reaction to my vote explanation. So, yeh, I get you now.
Good, cause I like being on your side in games. Good place to be 50% of the time
Well, I've spotted a couple of other incidences in this game where you've done this. That and the Basic #14 Brains thing make me think that I might have overread the situation (which I believe I can be prone to doing).
We all have these moments.
Makes sense. As an aside, the strange attitudes of some people towards the RVS have made me begin to hate it, when it should be a golden opportunity for picking up reads. Yet it can result in confusion. Doesn't mean that I can't enjoy it
I love it, especially now that I'm getting into acting strange in the RVS (South Park and Red Dwarf. Good times)
Yeh, sort of. Though, it was more to do with "staying safe" than "seeming more townish".
Ah, yes. Crystal now.
I suspect that you indirectly understand my point, then
As happens far too often
I'm mentioning it, but not explaining it. When I do explain it (or postgame, which is likely, unless things go very weirdly), it will be obvious why I didn't explain it before.
Fair enough
I'm sure there was a "smilie" that made a musical note appear, but I can't find it.
That would be sweet.
I want one that blows a kiss. <--Such a girl
That is answered above somewhere.
Got it. Nice answer. If I hadn't already unvoted you, I would.
Ace is still here and alive. Australia's federal election is basically nearing a hung parliament, and I work at various levels on the election for said government. Needless to say, I have had little time since yesterday's election.
Yeah, saw about your 20 year old elected politician. Nice.
That said, I'll be reading through and catching up in the coming day or so.
You're pretending to post content, but all you've done here is barn a bunch of other statements. I'm not going to OMGUS you here, but I am throwing a FoS your way. Maybe I'll take you seriously if you actually get involved in one of the discussions.
So it's sounding like this is just some thing you do whenever you want to confuse people.
Unvote, Vote: IBug
I was going to re-read you because I was on the fence about you, but that is the worst case of misrep I've ever seen. Look at his quote again. It's obvious he's using "fancy words" to say an FoS.
That's what it looks like, so that's what I said. I don't see much other purpose to it. Is it possible that he has multivotes? Sure. But he makes it sound like he does this frequently, so obviously he does it to mess with people.
Maybe he's trying to troll for reactions, maybe he's trying to draw scum away from power roles, maybe he actually has multivotes.
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town. That doesn't mean I stop questioning what he's doing.
If these truly are the only reasons you could think of for Az to use Hydra votes, then you need to remove the blinders. That's your problem.
No. You did read that post, right? It was a vote buried in a bunch of pointless text. There are maybe two or three sentences in that entire post that even resemble content. Explain to me how a (not inexperienced) town player lurks through the pregame, ignores every other relevant discussion and possible suspect and goes straight to join the biggest wagon he could. It doesn't happen.
I can't see Some One being town here, and if he's scum then i.bug is town.
No. You did read that post, right? It was a vote buried in a bunch of pointless text. There are maybe two or three sentences in that entire post that even resemble content. Explain to me how a (not inexperienced) town player lurks through the pregame, ignores every other relevant discussion and possible suspect and goes straight to join the biggest wagon he could. It doesn't happen.
I can't see Some One being town here, and if he's scum then i.bug is town.
I can see someone being scum. I could also see a speeding bus. I could also see ibug being town. I can see a lot of different things, actually. But for the moment I'm working with the ibug scum theory. WoD and Someone after that, perhaps.
I can see someone being scum. I could also see a speeding bus. I could also see ibug being town. I can see a lot of different things, actually. But for the moment I'm working with the ibug scum theory. WoD and Someone after that, perhaps.
I had forgotten how many votes i.bug has on him. This could definitely be a bus job. However, I have a stronger scum read on Some One than on i.bug.
FWIW, now that Azrael is actively posting, his play is pretty different from that of Symbiote. Here he seems to be taking more stances and playing a bigger role. A point in his favor.
You realize the more you guys say I'm town, the bigger the hard-on the scum are going to have to kill me? *scowls*
Also, I just read someone's post carefully for the first time, and it actually looks pretty clean to me. He hits most of the high points, it sounds genuine and vehement...Not seeing any problems there.
Its not a beautiful, carefully crafted analysis post, but it sure isn't a content-devoid nightmare either.
You realize the more you guys say I'm town, the bigger the hard-on the scum are going to have to kill me? *scowls*
It's not like the scum were just planning on letting town-Az stick around. If you are town you were doomed to die from the moment you got your role PM. And really...what an odd thing for you to say. "Stop saying I'm town, guys!"
Also, I just read someone's post carefully for the first time, and it actually looks pretty clean to me. He hits most of the high points, it sounds genuine and vehement...Not seeing any problems there.
Its not a beautiful, carefully crafted analysis post, but it sure isn't a content-devoid nightmare either.
Are you sure you're not just saying that because you're both voting for the same player and he apparently thinks your read is spot-on?
Not suprised by this - he made an earlier post indicating the game was going fast. Call me crazy, but I feel people who do this usually end up being town.
Says the same thing I said originally, but by now it's not even worth mentioning. Not very relevant.
Again, scum-spewing BULLOWWWWWWWWWWWWKNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYY!!! There's no need to ditch habits or whatever - you're trying to cover yourself from what Azrael said, and it has lead you into a trap into a very dark corner.
What's baloney is how ridiculous this comment is. I dare someone to argue that a n00b townie wouldn't play this way. Sure, i.bug is not the most townish of players, but this is no slam-dunk case. People need to stop acting like it is.
Sorry guys, posting from a friend's PC now, since for some reason MTGS has been blocked at work (Flagged as offensive and pornographic for some RETARDED reason) - I'm going to get it unblocked this week.
So you are speculating and trying to smear me in the process?
/barns DYH re: i.bug fishing. I guess this is content...?
Yes
Says the same thing I said originally, but by now it's not even worth mentioning. Not very relevant.
So I felt like calling it, what do you care?
Indicates ~V~'s relative inexperience. Not very relevant.
I interpreted this as indicating Azrael's experience. This conversation is going to get too irrelevant for you too quickly, so let's drop it now.
Tries to twist a n00b tell into a scum tell; votes. Relevant, but scummy.
This is where you just lose me. I have a damn good argument for you, however, due to the fact that you mentioned an ongoing game, I am wholly inable to comment and quote from it. The argument deals with the fact that I force you into a dichotomy.
Another /barn. Yeah, we get the idea, you don't like i.bug.
Okay...
What's baloney is how ridiculous this comment is. I dare someone to argue that a n00b townie wouldn't play this way. Sure, i.bug is not the most townish of players, but this is no slam-dunk case. People need to stop acting like it is.
iBug's comments are incredibly scummy - he is trying to justify his behavior as he is going along. His self awareness would don him too much credit to call him noob town given that he has been supporting his style as the argument evolves around him. Azrael is outplaying iBug by getting him to evolve his defense to meet the current argument. Instead of calling Azrael out for his arguments and justifying his behavior from a town mindset, he is adopting reasoning or excuses for why he is playing like he is. Real townie, huh?
AI:
-You have not provided evidence of a meta argument; you referenced an ongoing game to support this argument which further compounds this fact. If you would like to meta my play in it's entirety as scum vs. town, I will be more than willing to take you up on that.
-You claim to have a strong scum-feeling from my one post. How logical do you think that is given the very infrastructure of your arguments?
-All that aside, it's non-sensical to compare one post to a game (especially when you are doing it all wrong), and in the future, I can walk the talk. In other words, extrapolate the dichotomy.
AI:
-You have not provided evidence of a meta argument; you referenced an ongoing game to support this argument which further compounds this fact. If you would like to meta my play in it's entirety as scum vs. town, I will be more than willing to take you up on that.
-You claim to have a strong scum-feeling from my one post. How logical do you think that is given the very infrastructure of your arguments?
-All that aside, it's non-sensical to compare one post to a game (especially when you are doing it all wrong), and in the future, I can walk the talk. In other words, extrapolate the dichotomy.
Links, please. Last two completed scum and town games, preferably.
iBug's comments are incredibly scummy - he is trying to justify his behavior as he is going along. His self awareness would don him too much credit to call him noob town given that he has been supporting his style as the argument evolves around him. Azrael is outplaying iBug by getting him to evolve his defense to meet the current argument. Instead of calling Azrael out for his arguments and justifying his behavior from a town mindset, he is adopting reasoning or excuses for why he is playing like he is. Real townie, huh?
This is a good summary of his behavior and you've just tipped me over.
And then this response in particular seems false. He was trying out a new playstyle, but the new aggressive playstyle was so far against his overwhelmingly cautious nature that he couldn't quite pull it off?
As someone who recently tried a playstyle shift in a game, which didn't work too wonderfully, I can understand this, and doubt it's a lie. -Sure, it's possible that he's trying to play aggressively as scum, but I don't see enough evidence pointing to that at all.
It's not like the scum were just planning on letting town-Az stick around. If you are town you were doomed to die from the moment you got your role PM. And really...what an odd thing for you to say. "Stop saying I'm town, guys!"
I've considered letting analysts live if they were under enough suspicion. But yes, I'm mostly being facetious here.
Quote from AsianInvasion »
Are you sure you're not just saying that because you're both voting for the same player and he apparently thinks your read is spot-on?
As someone who recently tried a playstyle shift in a game, which didn't work too wonderfully, I can understand this, and doubt it's a lie. -Sure, it's possible that he's trying to play aggressively as scum, but I don't see enough evidence pointing to that at all.
Playstyle changes can be legit, but I don't buy his explanation that it was so difficult to not be nervous that he couldn't handle it. Even the posts he quoted at us, for using the word, "seems", were far more decisive, natural, and confident than his posts here.
On top of that, he keeps on pushing the negative spin every chance he gets. That doesn't look like something a playstyle or confidence issue can explain any longer. It looks like negative spin is the track his brain is running on now. It's not exaggeration for the sake of presenting strength. It's sniping, for the sake of tearing something down.
Ugh, this game is giving me a migraine trying to follow. I will say that Az's numerous comments this game read as scummy to me. He tends to be quiet during the early game as town, trying to avoid notice. This game he's being noisy and acting confident.
Don't pull this crap with me, Asian. You know for a fact I read everything posted in games I'm in, more than once, so don't be a jerk to me.
tia
It was a vote buried in a bunch of pointless text. There are maybe two or three sentences in that entire post that even resemble content. Explain to me how a (not inexperienced) town player lurks through the pregame, ignores every other relevant discussion and possible suspect and goes straight to join the biggest wagon he could. It doesn't happen.
Sure it does, buddy. There's lazy town players in every game on this site. Granted, only town game I played with him in was Family and you can't really use that for meta as he was channeling CC.
Still, that one post doesn't seem enough for a vote to me.
Rafaelk? Never fooled anyone as mafia in his entire life. Certainly not in any games I've modded. Certainly not without knowing they were even there.
Maybe so, but he fooled the town as SK in Canada Mafia.
I still killed him though
Before anyone asks, I replaced in for scum bman, avoided his lynch that day, killed RafK, then got lynched the next day
DYH? Complete disaster. Every time we're scum together he screws everything up and ruins our chances.
He fooled most the people in Highlander. Only Kraj and Cyan saw what he was, and DYH made Kraj change his mind on it. I've never played with him other than there.
And me? Pffffft. I'm just little, innocent old me. I used a lot of smilies once. That's about all you can say.
I was a spectator in Symbiote, Az. I know what you're capable of as scum. Can't really trust you, hon. Sorry.
Doesn't mean I want you dead, just watching you.
Ugh, this game is giving me a migraine trying to follow. I will say that Az's numerous comments this game read as scummy to me. He tends to be quiet during the early game as town, trying to avoid notice. This game he's being noisy and acting confident.
I personally never got over the whole not using softening words things.
At some point, I'm pretty sure I got a wagon started on me for pretty much the same reason as i.bug has the wagon on him. And, checking the sig, I was town that game.
Maybe I'm being soft because I'm empathizing too much, but I can understand exactly why someone would want to bring a lack of certainty with them when playing mafia.
Unvote, by the way, since I'm pretty sure the wagon I was on died about three pages ago.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I really didn't like this post, but now he's replaced out. Gah.
I'm not convinced scum are going to have any reason to lie about the country they are from. There IS a distinct risk that having our countries in the open will cause problems. I think this is a greater risk, for now, than locking scum into a country claim. Especially in a game which, as I read the rules, has daytalk.
Incidentally, I believe this because he voted directly after the thing which made me also want to vote AI. It made sense that the reasons would be much the same. And I am reading V as strongly town anyway.
I didn't feel we really were doing random stage at that point, or that your comment was referring to doing less random stuff.
I also know you've played enough games to be familiar with what a normal day 1 is like. And this one was MORE active than normal (at least it seemed so to me).
I feel that you are making up an excuse here, and that's a worse sign for you than the original comment.
Sure, but it's very early to have that many people to be supporting pressure against. It feels like you were dangling many lines and seeing which one attracted bites.
He didn't say he thought of you as a townie at least for now. He said the opposite. The full quote was "AI has left himself open and given assurance to waaaaaay to many wagons at once for me to think of him as a townie at least for now." I would give you benefit of the doubt here, except for the odd way you chopped up the quote.
Hostility and ad homs when called out. Hmm.
Concur.
I'm not seeing that. I don't see AI holding you and DYH up on a pedestal enough to really think that way nor that he would see himself as a hard-working townie and be angered by people who post less than him.
AI's behaviour here reminds me a great deal of LOTR2. Talks a big game, goes straight for the sardonic comments when attacked or criticised, tries to play up confusion in other people's posts which isn't necessarily there, makes unnecessary "helpful townie" comments. Exprience may have made him a bit less twitchy, but it still looks very similar to me.
The i.bug case isn't very good from where I sit.
*frown* I'm not getting any clear town signals from his responses. I'm not reassured. All his explanations are easy and simple, something I could see scum crafting. And then this response in particular seems false. He was trying out a new playstyle, but the new aggressive playstyle was so far against his overwhelmingly cautious nature that he couldn't quite pull it off?
Either way you cut it, there's a definite edge of falseness to his posts. Either that note of falsity is because he was trying a new townie style and failed (seems awfully convenient, and tailored to meet my accusation and build on his previous statements), or more likely to my mind, the tension is because he's not accustomed to making attacks/being aggressive as scum.
He's running a very cool and collected defense, which is a good way to defuse a lot of townies' suspicions. But it's a null tell for alignment, and his actual explanations are not encouraging.
Vote stands.
@Mod Can we get a prod/replacement on him?
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Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Yes, let's set a precedent for lynching before the game even begins!!
1 - You don't have any crack for me?
2 - That's not my name.
He's obviously indicating that I can get crack from him, unlike everyone else. Are you trying to compete with him by signaling it in another way?
O god...and it somehow worked regardless because of the horrendously scewed numbers that doomed the town from the beginning.
No freaking doubt. In other words: Amen.
Not suprised by this - he made an earlier post indicating the game was going fast. Call me crazy, but I feel people who do this usually end up being town.
Yeah, might want to focus on the "or so" part of that.
This is the kinda stuff you spew as scum. Vote iBug.
Word up, dawg.
Again, scum-spewing BULLOWWWWWWWWWWWWKNNNNNEEEEEEEEYYY!!! There's no need to ditch habits or whatever - you're trying to cover yourself from what Azrael said, and it has lead you into a trap into a very dark corner.
This whole post was painful to read. Random stuff, and nothing at all original.
Post moar
I find this post amusing.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I think you're stretching pretty hard here.
Some players were trying to advance the game state while others were still posting junk for lulz.
I liked the pace of CCMIV's Day One and want to see that in other games. Big deal.
Again, stretching. If I'm mildly-to-moderately suspicious of five people, I don't see anything wrong with saying as much. Stop focusing on just possible pro-scum motivations behind my actions and consider possible pro-town motivations.
I misread the quote. My mistake.
"Called out?" Let's see, DYH specifically ignored the fact that I said I wasn't trying to suck the fun out of the game and sarcastically implied that I indeed was. Then he voted me without actually posting a relevant reason. I'd say that my responses were quite warranted considering the circumstances.
Do you actually know what my town meta looks like?
I actually called Az my hero (semi-jokingly) not two weeks ago. I'm sure you remember that.
Also, I may have exaggerated somewhat; so what. You're really stretching this for all it's worth.
Read some of my recent town games and get back to me.
Basic #17: Demonata Mafia
Duel Monsters Mafia
EWP: Some One's play mirrors that of CCMIV almost exactly. (He's dead scum in that ongoing game.)
Unvote
Vote Some One
That said, I'll be reading through and catching up in the coming day or so.
unvote
to be sure
You're pretending to post content, but all you've done here is barn a bunch of other statements. I'm not going to OMGUS you here, but I am throwing a FoS your way. Maybe I'll take you seriously if you actually get involved in one of the discussions.
Is this supposed to be a meta read or a general "you?"
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
OMGUS is a term used in a lot of situations I don't think it applies to. If you dislike how someone voted you as opposed to that someone voted you, it's not an OMGUS. I think you are too concerned with the way you'll look if you vote him.
Vote: ibug
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
iBug (6) - Az, DYH, Zchinque, Vezok, Some One, DKD
Azrael (3) - WoD, iBug, Tordeck
AsianInvasion (2) - ~Tilde~, V
Some One (2) - Talore, AI
Vezok(2) - Skander, Manders
DYH (1) - Emo_Pinata
Not counted any of Az' hydravotes, as I have no idea what they mean, if anything.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Well, to be fair to him, if I were a relatively new player in his position right now I'd be stepping lightly too.
Fair enough, but there's some adage about a straw and a camel's back that I think applies here.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I've heard of his reputation, but are you trying to say that can vote someone over meta that doesn't exist as town??
Wait, what?
See above. If he is really that bad I'll unvote him but if that's the case I don't see how anyone can ever read him.
Sure.
Right, last time I was scum was a long time ago. But so were Ghost Town and OoTS. WoD was a fairly self-explanatory sentiment anyways I thought.
I must have missed that.
even so, not quite a wagon.
I see you really didn't like my first post. 'll try to be more expressive in the future.
Yeah, like I said to MH, so long as it's not being used as a tactic.
Yeah, that reads nicely. I'm good with you.
What was he as in Cubus? Are you saying it's his MO regardless of alignment?
=====
The iBug situation is murky right now. I'm willing to give him some leeway for the time being.
I unvoted a couple pages back.
I'm also interested in the hydravote thing. How often does something like that pop up?
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Without claiming to be an expert on vez, I believe there are some differences between his town and scum meta. But brazen, crappy votes, and completely unwarranted assuredness of himself when all he's really doing is barning, seems to be part of both.
Sorry 'bout that, missed it.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
That's a nice way to spin it.
And I can vouch for him doing this often.
This keeps up, I'm going to get dizzy and fall over.
That makes me sad.
Unvote
Make that, "that's a nice way to spin it after you just unvoted the man..."
You and me both.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
That's what it looks like, so that's what I said. I don't see much other purpose to it. Is it possible that he has multivotes? Sure. But he makes it sound like he does this frequently, so obviously he does it to mess with people.
Maybe he's trying to troll for reactions, maybe he's trying to draw scum away from power roles, maybe he actually has multivotes.
I unvoted because I'm getting the feeling he's town. That doesn't mean I stop questioning what he's doing.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
What gives you that feeling?
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Maybe it's an insidious plot to explain who I suspect. *twirls mustache*
Trouble getting your story straight? [cheap shot]
Those two quotes aren't out of line with each other.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I don't think that applies here.
I recently read a post somewhere that explained vezokpiraka's playstyle quite succinctly, though now I can't find it for the life of me. In short, regardless of alignment, he tries to survive to the endgame. That generally is exactly what the town doesn't want because he is inherently a threat as scum or neutral and is often a liability as town.
Given a little bit of rope, scum-vezok often hangs himself. I recommend letting him simmer in his own juices for a while.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Translation: It's a cool-sounding FoS/HoS.
EWP: I'm glad we're all on the same page now.
.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I'd like to see this answered, too.
If people are already reading me as town this early on day one, I'm going to need to go work on my sinister laugh.
I liked the pun.
Good, cause I like being on your side in games. Good place to be 50% of the time
We all have these moments.
I love it, especially now that I'm getting into acting strange in the RVS (South Park and Red Dwarf. Good times)
Ah, yes. Crystal now.
As happens far too often
Fair enough
That would be sweet.
I want one that blows a kiss. <--Such a girl
Got it. Nice answer. If I hadn't already unvoted you, I would.
No, crazy man. I have no crack for you.
QFT
Are you voting him purely on meta?
Yeah, saw about your 20 year old elected politician. Nice.
Looking forward to it lurker extraordinaire
What is your definition of OMGUS?
QFT, and it's here:
Unvote, Vote: IBug
I was going to re-read you because I was on the fence about you, but that is the worst case of misrep I've ever seen. Look at his quote again. It's obvious he's using "fancy words" to say an FoS.
If these truly are the only reasons you could think of for Az to use Hydra votes, then you need to remove the blinders. That's your problem.
/barn
I certainly hope you are town, Az, but I am admittedly paranoid with you, RafK, and DYH.[/FONT][/FONT]
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
Unvote; Vote: Ibug
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
No. You did read that post, right? It was a vote buried in a bunch of pointless text. There are maybe two or three sentences in that entire post that even resemble content. Explain to me how a (not inexperienced) town player lurks through the pregame, ignores every other relevant discussion and possible suspect and goes straight to join the biggest wagon he could. It doesn't happen.
I can't see Some One being town here, and if he's scum then i.bug is town.
Rafaelk? Never fooled anyone as mafia in his entire life. Certainly not in any games I've modded. Certainly not without knowing they were even there.
DYH? Complete disaster. Every time we're scum together he screws everything up and ruins our chances.
And me? Pffffft. I'm just little, innocent old me. I used a lot of smilies once. That's about all you can say.
We're all just complete puds. *shrugs helplessly*
Of course, the question's probably moot, because the three of us are walking dead men once the doc's gone.
I can see someone being scum. I could also see a speeding bus. I could also see ibug being town. I can see a lot of different things, actually. But for the moment I'm working with the ibug scum theory. WoD and Someone after that, perhaps.
:rolleyes::rolleyes2::rollout:
I had forgotten how many votes i.bug has on him. This could definitely be a bus job. However, I have a stronger scum read on Some One than on i.bug.
FWIW, now that Azrael is actively posting, his play is pretty different from that of Symbiote. Here he seems to be taking more stances and playing a bigger role. A point in his favor.
Also, I just read someone's post carefully for the first time, and it actually looks pretty clean to me. He hits most of the high points, it sounds genuine and vehement...Not seeing any problems there.
Its not a beautiful, carefully crafted analysis post, but it sure isn't a content-devoid nightmare either.
It's not like the scum were just planning on letting town-Az stick around. If you are town you were doomed to die from the moment you got your role PM. And really...what an odd thing for you to say. "Stop saying I'm town, guys!"
Are you sure you're not just saying that because you're both voting for the same player and he apparently thinks your read is spot-on?
Junk.
Possible role flavor/junk.
Ditto.
Rehashing an old game. Irrelevant.
/barns DYH re: i.bug fishing. I guess this is content...?
Says the same thing I said originally, but by now it's not even worth mentioning. Not very relevant.
Indicates ~V~'s relative inexperience. Not very relevant.
Tries to twist a n00b tell into a scum tell; votes. Relevant, but scummy.
Another /barn. Yeah, we get the idea, you don't like i.bug.
What's baloney is how ridiculous this comment is. I dare someone to argue that a n00b townie wouldn't play this way. Sure, i.bug is not the most townish of players, but this is no slam-dunk case. People need to stop acting like it is.
I'll read up and post as soon as I can.
So you are speculating and trying to smear me in the process?
Yes
So I felt like calling it, what do you care?
I interpreted this as indicating Azrael's experience. This conversation is going to get too irrelevant for you too quickly, so let's drop it now.
This is where you just lose me. I have a damn good argument for you, however, due to the fact that you mentioned an ongoing game, I am wholly inable to comment and quote from it. The argument deals with the fact that I force you into a dichotomy.
Okay...
iBug's comments are incredibly scummy - he is trying to justify his behavior as he is going along. His self awareness would don him too much credit to call him noob town given that he has been supporting his style as the argument evolves around him. Azrael is outplaying iBug by getting him to evolve his defense to meet the current argument. Instead of calling Azrael out for his arguments and justifying his behavior from a town mindset, he is adopting reasoning or excuses for why he is playing like he is. Real townie, huh?
AI:
-You have not provided evidence of a meta argument; you referenced an ongoing game to support this argument which further compounds this fact. If you would like to meta my play in it's entirety as scum vs. town, I will be more than willing to take you up on that.
-You claim to have a strong scum-feeling from my one post. How logical do you think that is given the very infrastructure of your arguments?
-All that aside, it's non-sensical to compare one post to a game (especially when you are doing it all wrong), and in the future, I can walk the talk. In other words, extrapolate the dichotomy.
Links, please. Last two completed scum and town games, preferably.
Got it.
This is a good summary of his behavior and you've just tipped me over.
MOD: can we get a votecount?
As someone who recently tried a playstyle shift in a game, which didn't work too wonderfully, I can understand this, and doubt it's a lie. -Sure, it's possible that he's trying to play aggressively as scum, but I don't see enough evidence pointing to that at all.
Why so much hostility in this response?
I've considered letting analysts live if they were under enough suspicion. But yes, I'm mostly being facetious here.
He's voting for the same guy as me??
Yes, I'm sure.
Playstyle changes can be legit, but I don't buy his explanation that it was so difficult to not be nervous that he couldn't handle it. Even the posts he quoted at us, for using the word, "seems", were far more decisive, natural, and confident than his posts here.
On top of that, he keeps on pushing the negative spin every chance he gets. That doesn't look like something a playstyle or confidence issue can explain any longer. It looks like negative spin is the track his brain is running on now. It's not exaggeration for the sake of presenting strength. It's sniping, for the sake of tearing something down.
Unvote
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Don't pull this crap with me, Asian. You know for a fact I read everything posted in games I'm in, more than once, so don't be a jerk to me.
tia
Sure it does, buddy. There's lazy town players in every game on this site. Granted, only town game I played with him in was Family and you can't really use that for meta as he was channeling CC.
Still, that one post doesn't seem enough for a vote to me.
Maybe so, but he fooled the town as SK in Canada Mafia.
I still killed him though
Before anyone asks, I replaced in for scum bman, avoided his lynch that day, killed RafK, then got lynched the next day
He fooled most the people in Highlander. Only Kraj and Cyan saw what he was, and DYH made Kraj change his mind on it. I've never played with him other than there.
I was a spectator in Symbiote, Az. I know what you're capable of as scum. Can't really trust you, hon. Sorry.
Doesn't mean I want you dead, just watching you.
Cute
QFT
Looking forward to it, lurker extraordinaire.
I believe your vote will put him at L-2, but I'm not positive. I'm going off Z's last post.
Why did you just unvote?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!