These two situations are so unsimilar it isn't even funny. Like this is your defense? What do you think my extracurricular habits render me completely inept to remember anything?
This is me in Indiana Jones:
Cyan: Claim
kpaca: No, there is no case on me.
Town: You are now at L-2 claim
kpaca: No.
This is you here:
AI: I'm not going to get lynched
AI: blah blah role reasons
And this is similar how?
When you put it that way they don't sound similar. It was the attitude that I thought was similar, with both of us saying, "No, not gonna happen." under pressure, though we were talking about different things.
Sanity speculation. Introduces the idea, not really a big deal, but I don't see why he'd want to know. He brings up the idea, then when he's shot down, blends in with everyone else.
Also, probing for info claims.
Speculating on public information is a null tell at worst, and a weak town tell at best. Trying to influence behavior through said speculation (like KrackShott's attempted link between sanity and hammering) is scummy.
A good soft-claim is pro-town. Simply discussing a soft-claim is pro-town because it can show who has good reasoning for or against it and who is simply faking an opinion.
More bad reasons, and lame unvote after being scolded by kpaca. Defense of his claim idea, and making it seem like it wasn't a big deal and he didn't really care.
Continuing to vote someone early in the game when you have no support from others is bad for the town because it distracts from the major wagons. Soft-claims still aren't scummy, but it's not like we absolutely needed to do one. Without a majority it's not happening.
Why would you call dibs on an unknown power if you didn't know what Seppel was? You had to have known he was scum, and subsequently that nothing bad would happen to you. This is just weird all around.
Scum do not go around offering to do bad things (like killing) people. If I died or suffered some other ill effect, that would reflect quite poorly on Seppel. As it turns out, Seppel was scum, but there's a decent chance that he was telling the truth about his item based on how he claimed it and the whole "modkill" incident.
Here's my three cents that I probably should have thrown in sooner.
I don't like how TechnoLink voluntarily claimed a particularly odd role, whose exact abilities are a bit murky at worst and a nightmare at best. However, considering the nature of the role, I can let it slide.
AsianInvasion, the other major wagon, has been playing fairly defensively and his tact lends me to think neutrally about him at best. However, he also seems to be inviting a claim.
Vote AsianInvasion
I'm doing only because I'm curious on his claim. That's put you at L-2 I believe. Ball's in your court AI.
Well, that was massively signposted, so nobody should be at all surprised.
I'll say one thing in your favour though, AI - at least your choice of target made sense, desCoures has been quite lurky this game.
On an unrelated subject, I was doing a chunk of reread and came across this post. Dagger, are you scum?
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<Limited Clan>
Again, I have no idea what to make of TechnoLink's ability and unlike Seppel, there is no way to verify it. While I rather not leave him to his own devices, he really hasn't done anything to earn scorn other than prematurely claiming.
The Muffin Man just jumped on a wagon. Scummy, maybe. Worth running with, probably not. His other reactions, as detailed by AI, well, that tells a different story.
Hey remember how I said I was going to look into kpaca. Needless to say I have and what i found out was well, interesting. The thing here is my newness to this game doesn't know what would be considered appropriate in what to share with my findings considering this does regard kpaca.
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If you think kpaca is probably Town then avoid saying anything that might reveal his role or any item info. If you can clear him without doing this then it's a good idea.
If you think he might be scum then share as much as possible about the case in which he's scum, because otherwise that information will be potentially lost if you die.
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<Limited Clan>
Hey remember how I said I was going to look into kpaca. Needless to say I have and what i found out was well, interesting. The thing here is my newness to this game doesn't know what would be considered appropriate in what to share with my findings considering this does regard kpaca.
Rereading Dagger is interesting. More people should do it. And then vote for him, because he is scum.
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It's been a while since I played Mafia, but I'm fairly sure that's not an optimal strategy.
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<Limited Clan>
It's been a while since I played Mafia, but I'm fairly sure that's not an optimal strategy.
Well, that's assuming he's what he says he is. Falseclaims do happen, and his actions seem to say the opposite of what he says he is. Idk what to think.
Cop claim, hmm? Interesting. I like those claims, I did one myself in Basic 21. It didn't go well for me.
For now, your cop claim clears you, but I'd like to see you target me tonight. If you do and the doc guess right who he has to target tonight, then we at least will have 1 cop at the end of night, and maybe even 2 if the doc chooses the right target to protect.
Unvote
I'm going to ask Rianalln if I also get the ability when the one targeting me is roleblocked. I'll get back on that.
I would rather target someone I have a hard time reading. Based on recent events, it would seem that Dagger might be worth investigating.
However, if I were to target you, that would neatly solve our little situation. Let's say...I may investigate you tonight. Tell me in the morning if I did.
Well, that's assuming he's what he says he is. Falseclaims do happen, and his actions seem to say the opposite of what he says he is. Idk what to think.
In the event that it's a falseclaim we'll be fine. If our real Cop ever dies, AsianInvasion is instantly screwed. And if our real Cop doesn't die... well, I hear that's pretty good. And of course the real Cop can counterclaim AsianInvasion in the late game anyway at whatever point is most advantageous.
@bateleur: I haven't the luxury of time, do you mind summarizing your re-read?
Yes, I mind.
Or to put it another way: the summary is that he looks like scum because of what he was up to at the time which we are now better able to assess. And if you say "What things?" I will then suggest you read for yourself.
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<Limited Clan>
Well I mean, we've kind of been playing under the assumption that he's town because he acts like it. Hiding in plain sight, eh?
And I suppose I could unvote.
Well I mean, we've kind of been playing under the assumption that he's town because he acts like it. Hiding in plain sight, eh?
Watching you post is like watching a man try to eat something that is too hot, burn his mouth, spit it out, wait a few seconds, and then take another bite of it.
Watching you post is like watching a man try to eat something that is too hot, burn his mouth, spit it out, wait a few seconds, and then take another bite of it.
Doing a hasty re-read, (cutting into my time setting up for D&D >_>) i thing bateleur may be on to something. If one is going to re-read Dagger, look at how much interference he plays, the fishing, and the general tone of the posts. He helps out Seppel a lot.
Once again, you guys want to lynch a guy who has a completely verifiable role. If Teknolink is not RIGHT NOW a watcher, he is going to screw up tomorrow or some day down the line and get lynched. There is NO point in lynching him right now if you think he is flat out lying about his role.
Also, we should set some guidelines for him.
TEKNOLINK: If you survive today, you are NOT allowed to watch yourself. Target somebody you think may be NK'd. Tomorrow, post who you targeted and if anybody targeted them, but do not post WHO did the targeting until we ask. Got it?
I would say a town that was forced to claim would have very few reasons to lie. And that by voluntarily claiming, not everything that is said is the absolute truth.
Tek should know better than to lie about his role as town, that's what got him lynched on D1 of the last clan mafia. The only thing that concerns me about his claimed role at the moment is the inconsistency in what he's said about the mechanics, so hopefully nacho wizard's plan will catch him out, otherwise it may be difficult to prove one way or the other. It seems equally likely to me now that he didn't understand the role, was simply trying to avoid NK, or is making it up as he goes along.
Nice subtle OMGUS. I don't see bateleur as scum simply because of how hard he pushed Seppel...unless you think that was a bus job?
As a matter of fact, I did consider that possibility and still AM. You just need to consider the rationale he used in pushing at Seppel hard. At the point of time when Seppel's wagon wavered and sort of crumbled, what reason did Bat offer to still stay on it? Tell me.
Doing a hasty re-read, (cutting into my time setting up for D&D >_>) i thing bateleur may be on to something. If one is going to re-read Dagger, look at how much interference he plays, the fishing, and the general tone of the posts. He helps out Seppel a lot.
What interferences?
What fishing?
And in what general tone of the posts?
Now enlighten me. How did I help Seppel out a lot?
If you have indeed reread the thread, you should be able to answer those and back them up, because that is not how I recall them.
Watching you post is like watching a man try to eat something that is too hot, burn his mouth, spit it out, wait a few seconds, and then take another bite of it.
Hehe. I actually find this really funny.
You, sir, are pretty funny.
I would rather target someone I have a hard time reading. Based on recent events, it would seem that Dagger might be worth investigating.
However, if I were to target you, that would neatly solve our little situation. Let's say...I may investigate you tonight. Tell me in the morning if I did.
I just reread my role card and its wording is consistent with TeknoLink's (most recent) claim that he is told what abilities he gains at the start of the next Day.
There are four possibilities in my mind: TeknoLink is telling the truth, TeknoLink is a Godfather, Teknolink is a scum doppelganger, or TeknoLink is just a goon.
I'm not terribly worried about it, as he'll be auto-lynched at LyoL if still alive, as stated.
I find Dagger's responses to pressure poor and plan on rereading him.
As a matter of fact, I did consider that possibility and still AM. You just need to consider the rationale he used in pushing at Seppel hard. At the point of time when Seppel's wagon wavered and sort of crumbled, what reason did Bat offer to still stay on it? Tell me.
What interferences?
What fishing?
And in what general tone of the posts?
Now enlighten me. How did I help Seppel out a lot?
If you have indeed reread the thread, you should be able to answer those and back them up, because that is not how I recall them.
So obviously I didn't re-read your posts and just pulled these out of thin air :rolleyes:. Now I hate you and I have to dig through your posts again to cite what posts set me off in particular. But as previously mentioned I have to set up a D&D game, and I don't really have the time until maybe tuesday afternoon.
So obviously I didn't re-read your posts and just pulled these out of thin air :rolleyes:. Now I hate you and I have to dig through your posts again to cite what posts set me off in particular. But as previously mentioned I have to set up a D&D game, and I don't really have the time until maybe tuesday afternoon.
Of course, I understand if you actually need the time to go and do the reread for real this time.
I don't actually need specific posts, you know? You see, if you have indeed reread me as you claimed, you should have some general impressions and thoughts as to how you came to the conclusion of those points that you accused me of.
You said interferences. In support of who? Against who? How? You cannot even give a vague outline? Fishing against who? How is it considered a fishing? What information do you think I hope to gain by this so-called fishing? General tone? No adjective comes to mind? Then in what way is said general tone condemning? And how did I help Seppel out a lot? Do you even know my stance against Seppel? What did I do in response to his wagon? Not even a statement you can make from memory to answer those questions without citing specific posts?
So obviously I didn't re-read your posts and just pulled these out of thin air :rolleyes:. Now I hate you and I have to dig through your posts again to cite what posts set me off in particular. But as previously mentioned I have to set up a D&D game, and I don't really have the time until maybe tuesday afternoon.
What. The. Hell. How is this pro-town by any stretch of the imagination? You faked a reread and jumped on the bandwagon, then fessed up after getting called out...but still left your vote where it was?
If Dagger flips town you are 100% scum.
As a matter of fact, I did consider that possibility and still AM. You just need to consider the rationale he used in pushing at Seppel hard. At the point of time when Seppel's wagon wavered and sort of crumbled, what reason did Bat offer to still stay on it? Tell me.
First of all, you didn't actually explain your thoughts, you just asked me to go back and observe how the wagon transpired. Like I said, I'm going to reread, especially before I place a vote. If only more of us followed through with such promises...
What. The. Hell. How is this pro-town by any stretch of the imagination? You faked a reread and jumped on the bandwagon, then fessed up after getting called out...but still left your vote where it was?
If Dagger flips town you are 100% scum.
I'm pretty sure he was attempting a sarcasm. Doesn't make it any less true though.
First of all, you didn't actually explain your thoughts, you just asked me to go back and observe how the wagon transpired. Like I said, I'm going to reread, especially before I place a vote. If only more of us followed through with such promises...
You actually have no response as to the validity of my thoughts on Bat?
Of course, I understand if you actually need the time to go and do the reread for real this time.
I don't actually need specific posts, you know? You see, if you have indeed reread me as you claimed, you should have some general impressions and thoughts as to how you came to the conclusion of those points that you accused me of.
You said interferences. In support of who? Against who? How? You cannot even give a vague outline? Fishing against who? How is it considered a fishing? What information do you think I hope to gain by this so-called fishing? General tone? No adjective comes to mind? Then in what way is said general tone condemning? And how did I help Seppel out a lot? Do you even know my stance against Seppel? What did I do in response to his wagon? Not even a statement you can make from memory to answer those questions without citing specific posts?
I <3 impatient people. I say I'll pull up quotes later, essentially 'making my case' so when I say I'll go off and do it later you start hammering me for not giving you a teaser.
Interference was in the early Seppel wagon, where it seemed by the general look of things that your objective was to disprove bateleur, interfering with that wagon. I saw a lot of short little questions you asked which looked really fishy and wierd, like where seratonin was given an ultimatum by kpaca and you poked around in there; there were others I can't pull off the top of my head 5hrs later. The general tone... didn't seem very pro-town. It's hard to explain, but kind of like where one is trying to attack arguements then fully analyze them... kind of gut. You helped out Seppel a lot by defending the arguements against him (bateleur's reasonings) and putting him in leaning town/town positions on your lists. If I think you're scum then that means you don't need a stance on Seppel because he's your buddy... in response to the wagon you attacked bate's reasonings to death, combined wigth the pro-town listings you gave him I believed it influenced al ot of the more sheepish players into thinking him town, and dissolving the wagon.
What. The. Hell. How is this pro-town by any stretch of the imagination? You faked a reread and jumped on the bandwagon, then fessed up after getting called out...but still left your vote where it was?
If Dagger flips town you are 100% scum.
lol... it seems the art of sarcasm is lost upon AsianInvasion. Nice misrep. I'm also town, btw.
lol... it seems the art of sarcasm is lost upon AsianInvasion. Nice misrep. I'm also town, btw.
It looked like you said, "I didn't reread. I hate you for making me reread."
The second sentence reinforced the first which is why it seemed scummy. If you insist that you were being sarcastic I'll let it go for now.
Your analysis of Dagger during the Seppel wagon is pretty good, if a bit skewed toward presupposing Dagger's guilt; some of the things you read as scummy were a bit of a stretch, as I was also convinced that Seppel was town.
I <3 impatient people. I say I'll pull up quotes later, essentially 'making my case' so when I say I'll go off and do it later you start hammering me for not giving you a teaser.
What can I say? I really needed to know whether you really did a reread or you were just barning for the sake of it.
Interference was in the early Seppel wagon, where it seemed by the general look of things that your objective was to disprove bateleur, interfering with that wagon. I saw a lot of short little questions you asked which looked really fishy and wierd, like where seratonin was given an ultimatum by kpaca and you poked around in there; there were others I can't pull off the top of my head 5hrs later. The general tone... didn't seem very pro-town. It's hard to explain, but kind of like where one is trying to attack arguements then fully analyze them... kind of gut. You helped out Seppel a lot by defending the arguements against him (bateleur's reasonings) and putting him in leaning town/town positions on your lists. If I think you're scum then that means you don't need a stance on Seppel because he's your buddy... in response to the wagon you attacked bate's reasonings to death, combined wigth the pro-town listings you gave him I believed it influenced al ot of the more sheepish players into thinking him town, and dissolving the wagon.
Disproved Bat? Bat was using a rather poor reasoning in his vote on Seppel and stuck to it. I was trying to see whether said reasoning held water. Someone who stuck to a wagon using a poor reason rather suspicious, wouldn't you think so? At no point of time did I ever defend Seppel's actions against Bat. My questions were directed at Bat alone. By saying that was an interference, you are claiming Bat was a major driving force behind Seppel's wagon when that wasn't true at all. He adopted the stance of "my vote is where I like to place it" and "everyone else should just place their vote accordingly".
And by seratonin, don't you mean passislisk (IIRC)? If so, I will ask you the same thing I asked of TMM. What information do you think I was trying to gain from that so-called fishing? The question was along the line of: Do you think you will really falseclaim or be worried about counterclaim?
And attacking arguments first, and then fully analyzing the responses is bad? I mean, isn't that scumhunting?
Uh, no on the defending Seppel part. My focus was on Bat. Nothing to do with Seppel at all. I didn't speak out against people like kpaca because I could see how they believe in their reasoning against Seppel. But Bat. Bat was the one person in the entire wagon that cited things like flavor and statistics and coincidence in his pursuit of Seppel, and that seemed entirely outlandish.
And the scumlist you mentioned was ages ago and based on a preliminary read of players' behavior. At no point in the latter stages of the wagon did I post further scumlists. You would think that condemning? Didn't other people do the same? Because I was leaning town on Seppel in a scumlist, you think that was scummy? Tell me, what other alignments of the other players could you deduce from that particular scumlist?
And you believed I was instrumental in his wagon dissolving? Isn't that because of his claim? I never at any point of time forced people to follow my view, so I never saw any sheepish players tagging along behind me, whoever they are.
Because I was leaning town on Seppel in a scumlist, you think that was scummy? Tell me, what other alignments of the other players could you deduce from that particular scumlist?
Uhh, KrackShott/Aquajolt flipped scum too. Oh, and Calvin flipped town.
You're 0/3 so far on dead players. Hence bateleur's initial question and burboy's flattering remark.
Your analysis of Dagger during the Seppel wagon is pretty good, if a bit skewed toward presupposing Dagger's guilt; some of the things you read as scummy were a bit of a stretch, as I was also convinced that Seppel was town.
The only thing I did was claiming I was leaning town on Seppel and believing in his claim when he claimed. I was dubious enough of the whole thing to even initiate the birth decade soft claim in an attempt to lock down Seppel. And my focus was entirely on Bat and has nothing to do with Seppel. I even said as such in my responses to both Bat and kpaca, were you to do a reread of the entire exchanges.
Uhh, KrackShott/Aquajolt flipped scum too. Oh, and Calvin flipped town.
You're 0/3 so far on dead players. Hence bateleur's initial question and burboy's flattering remark.
That scumlist was on post #429. You are of the assumption that the list was static and immutable?
And yeah, I was leaning town on you too in that list. Is that 0/4 or 1/3?
That has nothing to do with it. It's simply the fact that it's awfully, shall we say, convenient that all of your guesses have been wrong so far.
OMGUS doesn't suit you.
/facepalm
I was trying to show you the stupid list is a null tell. I was allowed to be wrong. If it's a matter of convenience that a scumlist of ages ago early in the beginning of the game is wrong and could be used as evidence of a person being scum, go ahead.
Worthless post to avoid prods, and no I'm not red up on the game cuz i worked the past 4 days.
I'm trying to find some back-up within my clan for help to keep up with this game, so my replacement seems null (sadly enough, I'm the most experienced CMB mafia player)
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I believed it influenced a lot of the more sheepish players into thinking him town, and dissolving the wagon.
No, that's simply false. The only reason I let Seppel live yesterday was because we had other targets, so there wasn't sufficient reason to deny him one night in order to attempt to strengthen his claim.
Indeed, Dagger has been very careful not to be a key player in anything.
Well firstly, if you're Town I honestly recommend that you reread yourself, because an increased awareness of how bad you've made yourself look make help your defence.
You see, I didn't notice at the time, because you were doing two seemingly pro-town things:
1) Questioning suspects.
2) Questioning other players about their cases.
But looking back it's quite dramatic. Where you're questioning other players' cases it's mostly cases against people we now know to have been scum. But where you're questioning "suspects" it's people we either know to have been Town or people who had wagons against them which subsequently lapsed.
And it's always questions. Questions, questions, questions from you but no material of your own.
Also, your desire to suddenly talk about my pursuit of Seppel at the moment I flag you as scum is duly noted. Maybe later, eh?
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<Limited Clan>
Indeed, Dagger has been very careful not to be a key player in anything.
That's a really horrible point. I wasn't aware one has to be a key player in anything to be declared town.
How would you define a key event? Examples? Now in every key event that you proposed, who would you say are the key players? The far more vocal ones? Then the rest are scums? Does being a key player that falls under your criteria automatically make one town? Then we have a select group of vocal players being town and the rest delegated to scums?
Well firstly, if you're Town I honestly recommend that you reread yourself, because an increased awareness of how bad you've made yourself look make help your defence.
Emm, no. This is how I play. I don't really see the need to reread myself and to go out of the way to make myself look better. It's actually your job to read me, and if you have any issues about me, then bring them up in the open so that we can discuss it.
You see, I didn't notice at the time, because you were doing two seemingly pro-town things:
1) Questioning suspects.
2) Questioning other players about their cases.
But looking back it's quite dramatic. Where you're questioning other players' cases it's mostly cases against people we now know to have been scum. But where you're questioning "suspects" it's people we either know to have been Town or people who had wagons against them which subsequently lapsed.
And it's always questions. Questions, questions, questions from you but no material of your own.
I question everyone and every case if I see an oddity in it or if I wish a clarification or if I wish to see how it was responded to. That is how I operate. That is how I hunt. If I am satisfied or if I can see no further read being produced, I stop.
You actually separate what I did into two distinct actions, and then claimed each was being levied against different groups of people. I deny that. I now claim you are purposely being vague about the entire thing in order to paint me in a bad light.
Also, your desire to suddenly talk about my pursuit of Seppel at the moment I flag you as scum is duly noted. Maybe later, eh?
I was questioned about my supposed defense of Seppel via attacking your case. To defend myself, those are the issues I must touch upon. I therefore assure you that feeling of being assaulted is entirely your guilty conscience twinging in your mind. At ease. And indeed, we'll pursue it later when the opportunity arises.
Bother. I was really hoping you'd agree. I guess I should unvote then.
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<Limited Clan>
Indeed, which is exactly what I did after your dismissive response to my questioning your scum/town list. Every single post you've made so far.
Dismissive? The only question I saw was "are you scum?". I have no idea why you even showed the scum/town list. Maybe you forgot to type the question down with regards to that. In fact, you probably should type the question down. Then I probably would have known you were actually questioning the list.
can I be useless, I already caught scum
When you put it that way they don't sound similar. It was the attitude that I thought was similar, with both of us saying, "No, not gonna happen." under pressure, though we were talking about different things.
Isn't this the very definition of opportunism?
Speculating on public information is a null tell at worst, and a weak town tell at best. Trying to influence behavior through said speculation (like KrackShott's attempted link between sanity and hammering) is scummy.
A good soft-claim is pro-town. Simply discussing a soft-claim is pro-town because it can show who has good reasoning for or against it and who is simply faking an opinion.
Soft-claims still aren't scummy. I know SGT_Chubbz's scum meta fairly well and I think he is scum in this game.
Continuing to vote someone early in the game when you have no support from others is bad for the town because it distracts from the major wagons. Soft-claims still aren't scummy, but it's not like we absolutely needed to do one. Without a majority it's not happening.
Soft-claims still aren't scummy.
It was and still is valid: kpaca is not playing anything like his scum game.
Scum do not go around offering to do bad things (like killing) people. If I died or suffered some other ill effect, that would reflect quite poorly on Seppel. As it turns out, Seppel was scum, but there's a decent chance that he was telling the truth about his item based on how he claimed it and the whole "modkill" incident.
...Soft-claims...aren't scummy...still...
And why was it delayed?
Not because I'm scum, just so I can claim.
I don't like how TechnoLink voluntarily claimed a particularly odd role, whose exact abilities are a bit murky at worst and a nightmare at best. However, considering the nature of the role, I can let it slide.
AsianInvasion, the other major wagon, has been playing fairly defensively and his tact lends me to think neutrally about him at best. However, he also seems to be inviting a claim.
Vote AsianInvasion
I'm doing only because I'm curious on his claim. That's put you at L-2 I believe. Ball's in your court AI.
Winner of the First and Fourth Double Dare Single Elimination Contests
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Investigated dC to no success Night One. Probably a RB but could be his role.
Obviously claiming is bad, but like I said, it beats getting vigged. I trust we have a doctor somewhere in our group of 16-or-so.
Since we're not lynching TeknoLink we should run up Fenris or The_Muffin_Man instead.
I'll say one thing in your favour though, AI - at least your choice of target made sense, desCoures has been quite lurky this game.
On an unrelated subject, I was doing a chunk of reread and came across this post. Dagger, are you scum?
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<Limited Clan>
Again, I have no idea what to make of TechnoLink's ability and unlike Seppel, there is no way to verify it. While I rather not leave him to his own devices, he really hasn't done anything to earn scorn other than prematurely claiming.
The Muffin Man just jumped on a wagon. Scummy, maybe. Worth running with, probably not. His other reactions, as detailed by AI, well, that tells a different story.
Fenris... I'll get back to you on that.
Winner of the First and Fourth Double Dare Single Elimination Contests
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In other news, seratonin made two of the scummiest posts I've ever read, back to back. I'm changing to apbpa of him when I can.
either that or complete ☺☺☺☺
If you think he might be scum then share as much as possible about the case in which he's scum, because otherwise that information will be potentially lost if you die.
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<Limited Clan>
Depending on your alignment, the response would range from "No, I am town" to "You should know I am town".
Do you think he is town or scum?
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Rereading Dagger is interesting. More people should do it. And then vote for him, because he is scum.
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<Limited Clan>
I do think your scum. (This is without reading what has happened since, I'm doing so now.)
Quotes in blog.
Quotes in blog.
You want to vote for the Cop?
It's been a while since I played Mafia, but I'm fairly sure that's not an optimal strategy.
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<Limited Clan>
Well, that's assuming he's what he says he is. Falseclaims do happen, and his actions seem to say the opposite of what he says he is. Idk what to think.
Quotes in blog.
Unvote
@bateleur: I haven't the luxury of time, do you mind summarizing your re-read?
I would rather target someone I have a hard time reading. Based on recent events, it would seem that Dagger might be worth investigating.
However, if I were to target you, that would neatly solve our little situation. Let's say...I may investigate you tonight. Tell me in the morning if I did.
Well, it should have been pretty obvious that I had some kind of power role from Day One. Like I said, I probably should have played that differently.
Paraphrase of seratonin's posts:
"CLAIM NOW I'M CURIOUS." "UNVOTE OBV."
Bad play or scummy play? This one could go either way.
Nice subtle OMGUS. I don't see bateleur as scum simply because of how hard he pushed Seppel...unless you think that was a bus job?
I like this plan.
Yes, I mind.
Or to put it another way: the summary is that he looks like scum because of what he was up to at the time which we are now better able to assess. And if you say "What things?" I will then suggest you read for yourself.
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<Limited Clan>
do it for me
And I suppose I could unvote.
Quotes in blog.
Watching you post is like watching a man try to eat something that is too hot, burn his mouth, spit it out, wait a few seconds, and then take another bite of it.
You sir, have the best quotes.
Do you think The_Baked_Man is scum?
Vote Dagger
not particularly
Good plan.
Tek should know better than to lie about his role as town, that's what got him lynched on D1 of the last clan mafia. The only thing that concerns me about his claimed role at the moment is the inconsistency in what he's said about the mechanics, so hopefully nacho wizard's plan will catch him out, otherwise it may be difficult to prove one way or the other. It seems equally likely to me now that he didn't understand the role, was simply trying to avoid NK, or is making it up as he goes along.
Interesting find... Certainly warrants a reread of Dagger. Back soon.
/sigh
And why is it I am scum?
As a matter of fact, I did consider that possibility and still AM. You just need to consider the rationale he used in pushing at Seppel hard. At the point of time when Seppel's wagon wavered and sort of crumbled, what reason did Bat offer to still stay on it? Tell me.
What interferences?
What fishing?
And in what general tone of the posts?
Now enlighten me. How did I help Seppel out a lot?
If you have indeed reread the thread, you should be able to answer those and back them up, because that is not how I recall them.
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you cannot possibly be serious
vote: Dagger
Deadly
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Hehe. I actually find this really funny.
You, sir, are pretty funny.
Quotes in blog.
I just reread my role card and its wording is consistent with TeknoLink's (most recent) claim that he is told what abilities he gains at the start of the next Day.
There are four possibilities in my mind: TeknoLink is telling the truth, TeknoLink is a Godfather, Teknolink is a scum doppelganger, or TeknoLink is just a goon.
I'm not terribly worried about it, as he'll be auto-lynched at LyoL if still alive, as stated.
I find Dagger's responses to pressure poor and plan on rereading him.
So obviously I didn't re-read your posts and just pulled these out of thin air :rolleyes:. Now I hate you and I have to dig through your posts again to cite what posts set me off in particular. But as previously mentioned I have to set up a D&D game, and I don't really have the time until maybe tuesday afternoon.
You actually have no response as to the validity of my thoughts on Bat?
Of course, I understand if you actually need the time to go and do the reread for real this time.
I don't actually need specific posts, you know? You see, if you have indeed reread me as you claimed, you should have some general impressions and thoughts as to how you came to the conclusion of those points that you accused me of.
You said interferences. In support of who? Against who? How? You cannot even give a vague outline? Fishing against who? How is it considered a fishing? What information do you think I hope to gain by this so-called fishing? General tone? No adjective comes to mind? Then in what way is said general tone condemning? And how did I help Seppel out a lot? Do you even know my stance against Seppel? What did I do in response to his wagon? Not even a statement you can make from memory to answer those questions without citing specific posts?
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What. The. Hell. How is this pro-town by any stretch of the imagination? You faked a reread and jumped on the bandwagon, then fessed up after getting called out...but still left your vote where it was?
If Dagger flips town you are 100% scum.
I assume you mean this:
First of all, you didn't actually explain your thoughts, you just asked me to go back and observe how the wagon transpired. Like I said, I'm going to reread, especially before I place a vote. If only more of us followed through with such promises...
I'm pretty sure he was attempting a sarcasm. Doesn't make it any less true though.
Of course, my bad.
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Ah, thank you. Much less time consuming.
I <3 impatient people. I say I'll pull up quotes later, essentially 'making my case' so when I say I'll go off and do it later you start hammering me for not giving you a teaser.
Interference was in the early Seppel wagon, where it seemed by the general look of things that your objective was to disprove bateleur, interfering with that wagon. I saw a lot of short little questions you asked which looked really fishy and wierd, like where seratonin was given an ultimatum by kpaca and you poked around in there; there were others I can't pull off the top of my head 5hrs later. The general tone... didn't seem very pro-town. It's hard to explain, but kind of like where one is trying to attack arguements then fully analyze them... kind of gut. You helped out Seppel a lot by defending the arguements against him (bateleur's reasonings) and putting him in leaning town/town positions on your lists. If I think you're scum then that means you don't need a stance on Seppel because he's your buddy... in response to the wagon you attacked bate's reasonings to death, combined wigth the pro-town listings you gave him I believed it influenced al ot of the more sheepish players into thinking him town, and dissolving the wagon.
lol... it seems the art of sarcasm is lost upon AsianInvasion. Nice misrep. I'm also town, btw.
I am quickly running out of witty banter to make fun of people
It looked like you said, "I didn't reread. I hate you for making me reread."
The second sentence reinforced the first which is why it seemed scummy. If you insist that you were being sarcastic I'll let it go for now.
Your analysis of Dagger during the Seppel wagon is pretty good, if a bit skewed toward presupposing Dagger's guilt; some of the things you read as scummy were a bit of a stretch, as I was also convinced that Seppel was town.
Ouch. And here I thought you were an eternal spring of fun and games.
What can I say? I really needed to know whether you really did a reread or you were just barning for the sake of it.
Disproved Bat? Bat was using a rather poor reasoning in his vote on Seppel and stuck to it. I was trying to see whether said reasoning held water. Someone who stuck to a wagon using a poor reason rather suspicious, wouldn't you think so? At no point of time did I ever defend Seppel's actions against Bat. My questions were directed at Bat alone. By saying that was an interference, you are claiming Bat was a major driving force behind Seppel's wagon when that wasn't true at all. He adopted the stance of "my vote is where I like to place it" and "everyone else should just place their vote accordingly".
And by seratonin, don't you mean passislisk (IIRC)? If so, I will ask you the same thing I asked of TMM. What information do you think I was trying to gain from that so-called fishing? The question was along the line of: Do you think you will really falseclaim or be worried about counterclaim?
And attacking arguments first, and then fully analyzing the responses is bad? I mean, isn't that scumhunting?
Uh, no on the defending Seppel part. My focus was on Bat. Nothing to do with Seppel at all. I didn't speak out against people like kpaca because I could see how they believe in their reasoning against Seppel. But Bat. Bat was the one person in the entire wagon that cited things like flavor and statistics and coincidence in his pursuit of Seppel, and that seemed entirely outlandish.
And the scumlist you mentioned was ages ago and based on a preliminary read of players' behavior. At no point in the latter stages of the wagon did I post further scumlists. You would think that condemning? Didn't other people do the same? Because I was leaning town on Seppel in a scumlist, you think that was scummy? Tell me, what other alignments of the other players could you deduce from that particular scumlist?
And you believed I was instrumental in his wagon dissolving? Isn't that because of his claim? I never at any point of time forced people to follow my view, so I never saw any sheepish players tagging along behind me, whoever they are.
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Uhh, KrackShott/Aquajolt flipped scum too. Oh, and Calvin flipped town.
You're 0/3 so far on dead players. Hence bateleur's initial question and burboy's flattering remark.
The only thing I did was claiming I was leaning town on Seppel and believing in his claim when he claimed. I was dubious enough of the whole thing to even initiate the birth decade soft claim in an attempt to lock down Seppel. And my focus was entirely on Bat and has nothing to do with Seppel. I even said as such in my responses to both Bat and kpaca, were you to do a reread of the entire exchanges.
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That scumlist was on post #429. You are of the assumption that the list was static and immutable?
And yeah, I was leaning town on you too in that list. Is that 0/4 or 1/3?
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That has nothing to do with it. It's simply the fact that it's awfully, shall we say, convenient that all of your guesses have been wrong so far.
OMGUS doesn't suit you.
/facepalm
I was trying to show you the stupid list is a null tell. I was allowed to be wrong. If it's a matter of convenience that a scumlist of ages ago early in the beginning of the game is wrong and could be used as evidence of a person being scum, go ahead.
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I'm trying to find some back-up within my clan for help to keep up with this game, so my replacement seems null (sadly enough, I'm the most experienced CMB mafia player)
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
No, that's simply false. The only reason I let Seppel live yesterday was because we had other targets, so there wasn't sufficient reason to deny him one night in order to attempt to strengthen his claim.
Indeed, Dagger has been very careful not to be a key player in anything.
Executive summary below.
Well firstly, if you're Town I honestly recommend that you reread yourself, because an increased awareness of how bad you've made yourself look make help your defence.
You see, I didn't notice at the time, because you were doing two seemingly pro-town things:
1) Questioning suspects.
2) Questioning other players about their cases.
But looking back it's quite dramatic. Where you're questioning other players' cases it's mostly cases against people we now know to have been scum. But where you're questioning "suspects" it's people we either know to have been Town or people who had wagons against them which subsequently lapsed.
And it's always questions. Questions, questions, questions from you but no material of your own.
Also, your desire to suddenly talk about my pursuit of Seppel at the moment I flag you as scum is duly noted. Maybe later, eh?
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<Limited Clan>
That's a really horrible point. I wasn't aware one has to be a key player in anything to be declared town.
How would you define a key event? Examples? Now in every key event that you proposed, who would you say are the key players? The far more vocal ones? Then the rest are scums? Does being a key player that falls under your criteria automatically make one town? Then we have a select group of vocal players being town and the rest delegated to scums?
Emm, no. This is how I play. I don't really see the need to reread myself and to go out of the way to make myself look better. It's actually your job to read me, and if you have any issues about me, then bring them up in the open so that we can discuss it.
I question everyone and every case if I see an oddity in it or if I wish a clarification or if I wish to see how it was responded to. That is how I operate. That is how I hunt. If I am satisfied or if I can see no further read being produced, I stop.
You actually separate what I did into two distinct actions, and then claimed each was being levied against different groups of people. I deny that. I now claim you are purposely being vague about the entire thing in order to paint me in a bad light.
I was questioned about my supposed defense of Seppel via attacking your case. To defend myself, those are the issues I must touch upon. I therefore assure you that feeling of being assaulted is entirely your guilty conscience twinging in your mind. At ease. And indeed, we'll pursue it later when the opportunity arises.
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Indeed, which is exactly what I did after your dismissive response to my questioning your scum/town list. Every single post you've made so far.
I do and I have. You are scum because you defend scums and attack Townies whilst attempting to look Townie. Textbook play, right?
Although when you say "everyone" and "every case" it appears in practice to mean "every Townie" and "every case against a scum".
Yes. Exactly.
Bother. I was really hoping you'd agree. I guess I should unvote then.
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<Limited Clan>
Dismissive? The only question I saw was "are you scum?". I have no idea why you even showed the scum/town list. Maybe you forgot to type the question down with regards to that. In fact, you probably should type the question down. Then I probably would have known you were actually questioning the list.
And I have stated why those were vague attempts at discrediting with nothing to back them up. I am pleased you agree with my point of view regardless.
Again, another vague attempt. You claimed it's differentiated into townies and scums, but there is nothing to back them up but hot empty air.
Nice. We are in agreement with what you are attempting to do here then.
No, no, lest it be said that you gave in too easily. Then it would really look too scummy on your part.
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