I've been following the thread loosely, and intend to reread at least the most recent tonight when I get home from work. If you have any questions you'd like me to answer please say so, but no "omg explain why promatim is such a boat of fail and ruins mafia games" please. I can't really blame him considering the first few times I played mafia I died repeatedly D1/2 simply because no one believed my town claims. (Silly me, when I first started I was like OMG IM TOWN BELIEVE ME and thought it would work...) I'm guessing since Promatim had equally nonexistent experience that is why he failed to respond/play properly. A 22 player is a bit much to handle anyway IMO.
Do note this is also my first forum mafia game, I have limited IRC experience, so the only thing I could provide is self-meta which is nearly useless anyway. I play as Passislisk_ on the irc channel, so there might be an infinitesimally small chance someone could identify me from there.
Claim will come at L-2 per usual, I seem to count myself at L-3 though from skimming quickly since the last vote count though.
If I promise not to get you lynched today will you vote Seppel?
Wooo so even if I do this you are lynching me tomorrow? SWEET!
In all seriousness, please wait to give me ultimatums and such until I have a chance to fully digest the parts of the thread I'm not sure about tonight, estimated 10pm PST. (I'm at work until 6, and have family engagements until probably 8) I can't really make an argument with just what I remember right now. From what it seems like, just wagoning (that is the correct term for just hopping on a bandwagon correct?) doesn't really help your position, it is neutral at best. I'd like to help as much as I can, but that isn't facilitated by wagonning without a real reason then dieing tomorrow to you kpaca.
we should take over the thread, make it a gentleman's club
that way way bate can't come back in and tell us that while we may be falseclaiming as though we were staunch members of the silly nanny club, he assures us that no such tomfoolery would ever occur over here
I hear Hugh Heffner is looking to purchase the 30% of Playboy that is owned by the shareholders so he owns the full 100%.
I don't see any explanation for how you could have missed that the vast majority of my posts this game have been poking at, questioning people about, or outright accusing TMM. I also distinctly recall FoSing Promatim, re-reading him, and finding the re-read inconclusive due to utter lack of content to actually analyze, and mentioning that in-thread as well.
For having only 11 posts, boasting about a vast majority of your posts is stupid and it shows that you are concerned about a self-image that you don't even have.
Have you played with Seppel before? If so, how does it affect your read on him?
More when I figure out stuff.
Seppel has changed a lot throughout his mafia endeavors and I find myself associating his immaturity with being caught. His normal idea of having fun is catching scum, but when that is deemed impossible after being caught, his idea of fun turns to what we see here.
Seppel has changed a lot throughout his mafia endeavors and I find myself associating his immaturity with being caught. His normal idea of having fun is catching scum, but when that is deemed impossible after being caught, his idea of fun turns to what we see here.
Dude I trolled the hell out of Physical Chemistry Mafia and that was last month.
Scum One is just trying to push those last few votes he needs onto me and it's not working because he forgot to say things that aren't dumb.
So I’ve completed a re-read of a large portion of the posts, starting basically from when seppel starts taking a lot of flak up to now. Here is my analysis of what I feel is relevant atm. As with before, if you have any specific inquiries I will gladly answer them, 500 posts is a lot to re-read.
For the most obvious question, Kpaca, I’m not willing to vote Seppel. I’m sorry but it would just be too easy to verify his claim. If he’s scum, and passes to someone you determine
(My personal preference is calvin, as he is by FAR the most town person I’ve seen this game, but unfortunately he is currently unconscious (aka gone ) so that is not an option )
to be a confirmed town then voila, we can verify that either A) him and the person he passes to are scum. (Assuming the player he “passes” to acts like everything is fine and dandy) and they are okay for that day, but then have to pass the book again, and they will probably hit town on the 2nd, or 3rd at latest pass. (Note this is worst case scenario, and probably the least likely, because it relies on both his target being cleared by you yet scum, and neither of them slipping up at all). B) Seppel is scum and passes to town. Town that gets passed to goes hey wadafuxup and seppel gets lynched. This category is also occupied by any scenario that prevents the town he passes to from completely verifying him, IE a NK, seppel is lieing, etc. C) Seppel is town, he passes to town, town gives the A O. K., this is a good sign, saved us a mislynch. Your efforts are well done though, because on my patented ™ scumdar technology I’m rating him a 7.5 out of 10. (1 = 100% confirmed town, 10 = 100% confirmed scum, assume some linear-esque function for going from 5 – 10 and 5 - 1) and you are a 1.2 atm. Note: A 7.5 is easily a very vote-able scum rating, but seeing as his item is soooo incredibly easy to prove I’m going to say that if you are scum: “Good night, Seppel Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.”
To Burboy: My thoughts on voting Krackshots/Aquajolt:
I'm here, have received my role and am ready to lurk. Or maybe I'll post. Who knows?
I think I'll spam post. But not now. When people say things, you'll see more Kracky stuff.
I'd just like to inform everyone here who doesn't know
me, I can be like this a lot. I don't do it on purpose though, I'm just like that.
As for TMM, I dunno. We're still in the random stage I guess (well, kind of transitioning) and I don't take anything that isn't in bold red seriously during random, so I dunno.
Yeah, I was wondering about the Call of Cthulu thing myself. I've heard of the game and the sanity point thing, but have never played it. How does one go about losing their sanity in there? Just on the off chance we may have a rough equivalent here in mafia.
I don't know, but I'm wondering if maybe certain people capable of especially gruesome things (different characters?) cast the lynching vote it might be an especially disgusting lynch scene and it could possibly cause loss of sanity for those who looked.
Again, just speculation. But I'm determined to figure out how these sanity points work.
More no-scumhunting + flavor speculation. See a trend?
Meh. Promatim's had some slightly scummy posts, enough to merit a FoS but not a vote just yet. As someone else stated before, a vote means you believe the person should be lynched. I'm not positive about lynching Promatim, but I am watching him closely.
I may just be a dimwitted unobservant moron, or I may just not have played Mafia on MTGS/with Seppel before, but what's so scummy about Seppel?
Self-deprecation. For me this is a HUGE tell in a game of mafia. Townies are always confident in at least their own role in the town, so there is no room for self-deprecation in our mindset. Self-deprecation is kind of a jovial, easy-going thing and it detracts attention, making it a good plan for scum. Then resorts to his own lack of meta for the reason to NEED other people to tell him his opinion of Seppel? GGkthxbai.
How am I scum? Is it because of that suggestion about the poem? Well, that's the way my mind works. Have you ever read the Redwall books? There's a lot of stuff involving similar riddles etc in them. I read those books so many times when I was younger (and still do from time to time) and whenever I came across a puzzle in a book I hadn't yet read or hadn't read in ages I would challenge myself to solve the riddle if possible before I read the answer. I'm hardwired ro look at things that way. I looked at it and the first thing I noticed was that it talked about a total of six numbers and there were six rows of dashes. I couldn't figure out what exactly was the purpose of the dashes/blanks, so that was as far as I got.
OMG look how huge this post is in comparison to his others? SURELY there must be some substance in here? *reads* hmm. Reaction, red herring, mentions puzzle-skills (but couldn’t figure out why people were against seppel earlier?) and then ends in NOTHING.
Seriously awful play here folks. Clearly a scum, only 11 posts kind-of lurking, no opinions of his own, makes a lot of unimportant flavor speculation, and nothing else.
Scumdar: 8.5
Yes I know this PBPA was done earlier in the thread too, and while I’m primarily rehashing the same stuff, it bears mentioning the stuff I pointed out enough to warrant this at least in a spoiler.
Monkey_Playing_MTG: seems to be lurking a lot. Makes an excuse on 7-7, but then doesn’t post for two more days, and only then making negligible points and not really contributing to scumhunting… Post #760 makes more excuses, and while I can believe some excuses, I would expect this post here to be full of content and energy. Result? Nope. Mentions a post by promatim but gives no detail, then hops on the wagon against promatim. Note his post #771 has some basic flavor speculation and points out a small issue, and then just gives forum mechanics advice. So, @Monkey_Playing_MTG I’d request your opinions on scum, and if you still think it is me, an actually articulated argument please. I will not accept your wagoning, since I can’t actually articulate my points against that, unless you specifically point out who you most closely agree with. Overall kind of lurky which is understandable, but lack of posts after finishing his engagements leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Scumdar: 6
Teknolink: Ahh, at least he’s not lurking! Unfortunately though, after his post #806 he goes a little off the wall IMO. Up to here he is neutral, maybe slightly on scum side, but PBPA from then on:
Right, if nobody minds I'd like to claim right here and now so that people can discuss night actions based on my claim. Anyone against?
Ok, interesting. I've never heard of someone claiming like this when there is no pressure on them unless it is to support a wagon. This seems very out of left field, perhaps a distraction? Very risky gambit though IMO...
Right. I'm Sigus Schlomo Freud, Townie Doppelganger. If you target me with an ability, I gain your ability. In other words, if the cop targets me, I get the cop ability. Same goes for any other ability. Most likely if scum targets me with their nightkill, I get their nightkill ability.
I wanted this out since it might give us extra power roles to use in the game.
O.O ok, interesting. Doppleganger, seems to be compatible flavor-wise with sigmund, but it raises some awkward questions. He proposes a cop targeting him here, which seems like a bad thing to do for scum and good for town on first glance, but think about it. If I'm an important power role for the town why would I target this guy who is taking such a huge gambit (if scum) and seems so pro-town here? He is acting so nice, I'm sure someone will target him and confirm his ability.
I came out saying this because that way the doc can target me, and we can immediatly make use of this ability. If we have the doc targeting me, I can act as the 'doc', as well as making sure I can't get killed by having the original doc protect me. This way we have a doc protection, and if I do get killed somehow, at least the original doc survives without having to claim yet. Also, if the cop targets me, that means we have 2 investigations per night to use, which is a whole lot. Risky bet would be the vig targeting me, while I get protected by the doc, but if the scum decides to kill me as well, I'm not sure if the doc is able to stop two different sources of killing.
After a little flak questioning comes his way he starts to get hasty to type up some response. Now not only did he claim so we could get double cop, he claimed so we could get double doctor! suck that one mafia! the only problem is that now he is basically saying HEY DOCTOR TARGET ME, mafia has to be thinking hey lets ignore that guy, he's probably getting targeted for at least a cop and maybe a doc now, and blast some other guy while the PR waste their abilities on him. Interesting role speculation, then adds yet another layer, hey vig want to target me. This is the ONLY redeeming part of his claim since a non-one shot vig doesn't really lose a whole lot by wasting his N1 IMO. Perhaps he has something up his sleeve to protect himself if he is scum? Or maybe just a risky gambit getting the doc + vig to double target him and waste their stuff while he gets off scot free while wasting town power roles for the mafia. Absolutely BRILLIANT if it works.
Really dude? find your last post, look at the NEXT FLIPPING POST AFTER YOURS and answer it, instead of posting asking what his question was.
Serious scumdar here, 7.8
DC: Interesting response to thread happenings, pretty lurky considering only 11 posts. Definitely feeling scum here, not incredibly strong, could just be not-that-interested town. Need more time to review if it seems necessary. 6.9
For my town list, looks like:
EP
Dagger
Burboy
Calvin
In order from least townie to most townie. (approx rating 4 – 2 ).
Feeling scummy:
AsianInvasion – Awkward exchanges, seems to be having a hard time keeping hold of his opinions/arguments. 6.2
Neutrality still in effect for :
TMM (self-deprecation as mentioned earlier in my analysis is a scumtell imo, but could just be newblet uncertainty) 5.3
AlphaInsidious: Don’t remember anything he actually did. Similar to DC but less scumtell in what he has posted, please post a bit more. 5.8
Nacho – Very vigilant scumhunting and I love his playstyle (I play a lot like the aggressive, loves to be obnoxious guy that everyone hates in IRC, but I feel a forum game which is longer requires a little more TLC. ) 4.2
Anyone I forgot to mention (sorry, lot of names)
(typically 4.1 – 5.9 is still pretty neutral for me)
If you are interested in anything else from me LMK, I’d be happy to post more PBPA’s or validate my reasoning, unfortunately bed time soon so I have to wrap this up.
The Denoument:
VOTE: Aquajolt
Based solely on Krackshott's behavior. Haven't really studied aquajolt, a little time constrained. 10m late on this post as is.
@Rianalnn: Can we please get a vote count? I keep having to scan votes to see where they are at and what not, hard to keep track of. ty
EBWODP: Not familiar with post lengths once submitted, a little dissapointed in mine, expected a calvin-esque length wall of text that could crit for over 9000.
I'll be on for ~20m from right now, no later, just fyi. Tomorrow will be able to read and maybe make small responses while at work, but then on tomorrow night after 7:30-8:00 ish.
The lack of content from Promatim's lurking is looking moreso to be the work of a noob, than scum, as his replacement is dishing out more content than promatim ever promised to say (which he did, and then never really did *rolleyes)
Quote from Seppel »
SCUM TEAM:
Some One
desCoures
TeknoLink
Aquajolt27
SGT_Chubbz
SK
passislisk
I feel confident in my accuracy here.
care to give some specific reasons as to your scum team/SK combo meal?
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Dagger and Emo_Pinata's shouting match looks like town vs. town.
I doubt Teknolink came up with a false claim that devious on his own. Either the scum have daytalk or he's telling the truth. If he is scum, he's more than likely a Godfather or untargetable scum trying to waste all of the town's power. I still want to test his ability somehow, but not with one of our more useful roles if we can help it.
@Teknolink: You missed my question too. Can you use an ability you copy the Night you are targeted? Please answer Yes/No/Abstain.
Unvote Basilisk for being awesome.
Vote SGT_Chubbz for being unawesome.
The lack of content from Promatim's lurking is looking moreso to be the work of a noob, than scum, as his replacement is dishing out more content than promatim ever promised to say (which he did, and then never really did *rolleyes)
care to give some specific reasons as to your scum team/SK combo meal?
Can we vote for this guy? Holy crap. Is there some reason you don't hardly comment on ANYTHING except when somebody calls you scum?
"But yeah, I'm getting interested too. If you turn out not to be scum, he's straight into my top three."
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<Limited Clan>
"So what happened to all the people who were convinced Promatim was scum?"
"Seriously - one minute he's over 50% to be scum. The next minute his replacement shows the capacity to read and write and suddenly he's fine?"
"You people have no shame."
The dude's making sense. His reads are similar to mine. I have no scum read on New Promatim. I'm still considering SK because of Promatim's babbling implosion about Jack the Ripper, who...
Quote from Wikipedia »
"Jack the Ripper" is the best-known name given to an unidentified serial killer who was active in the largely impoverished areas in and around the Whitechapel district of London in 1888.
...could plausibly be alive in the 1920s.
Wow.
@New Promatim: I DEMAND A NAMECLAIM AS SOON AS YOU RETURN.
Lynching a SK on D1 will give us so much more time.
"Nor do I, but that's hardly the point! He's the same character as before the replacement. If something Promatim said revealed him to be scum, surely no amount of typing by passislisk can "unreveal" that fact?"
"I didn't think Promatim was scum either, but those who were arguing strongly for it should either be sticking to their guns or hanging their heads in shame."
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<Limited Clan>
"Nor do I, but that's hardly the point! He's the same character as before the replacement. If something Promatim said revealed him to be scum, surely no amount of typing by passislisk can "unreveal" that fact?"
"I didn't think Promatim was scum either, but those who were arguing strongly for it should either be sticking to their guns or hanging their heads in shame."
Passilisk made several posts that screamed town to me. To the point that the ~20% chance that Promatim was town looks a lot more likely. He's no longer somebody I want to lynch today.
So, actually I would be ashamed if I didn't reconsider my read in light of new evidence? I mean, I didn't think there was anything the replacement could do that would make me not want to lynch him, but those posts were soooo townie. I'm still skeptical, but I'm willing to give this new guy some time to prove himself.
The lack of content from Promatim's lurking is looking moreso to be the work of a noob, than scum, as his replacement is dishing out more content than promatim ever promised to say (which he did, and then never really did *rolleyes)
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
I'm going to need people to reread this quote, and tell me where he accuses anyone of being an serial killer, or even that Jack the Ripper would be a SK.
I'm going to need people to reread this quote, and tell me where he accuses anyone of being an serial killer, or even that Jack the Ripper would be a SK.
Why wouldn't this be the truth of the matter?
Well, it is flavour speculation, but assuming Jack the Ripper is an SK is a logical assumption... considering Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. "What if he is Jack the Ripper" is a roundabout way of accusation, except it's harder to pin down.
Quote from Nacho Libre »
Can we vote for this guy? Holy crap. Is there some reason you don't hardly comment on ANYTHING except when somebody calls you scum?
Vote: SGT Chubby
You know what? Yeah... Unvote; Vote Sgt. Chubbs
@New Promatim: Nameclaim doesn't sound like a bad idea at this point.
Wow, a minor comment before i go to bed, and this is what i come back to? gee, this is what i get for posting instead of lurking *eyes roll out of head
Can we vote for this guy? Holy crap. Is there some reason you don't hardly comment on ANYTHING except when somebody calls you scum?
Vote: SGT Chubby
Obv. since you just did
is there a reason? it could be that a 22 person game if ☺☺☺☺ing huge, aside from having more than a handful of seasoned veterans (AI, Bats, etc) and trying A.) keep up B.) not lurk C.) try to post something not worthless (which i'm sure someone will make a joke at after i post this)
Muttonchops is acting so defensive that I swear I've nailed AT LEAST 3 scum in my list.
News flash, Jabba, I've already explained why they're scum. Hell, I did a PBPA on your man Kracky.
(muttonchops, jabba? wtf?) Seppel, i think there's a difference between being defensive (whereas, i would have posted something along the lines of i'm not scum, because of X) whereas, i was asking why. i wasn't trying to deny anything, simply asking why. thanks assuming my reaction as something it wasn't though.
I'm going to need people to reread this quote, and tell me where he accuses anyone of being an serial killer, or even that Jack the Ripper would be a SK.
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
Promatim accuses Seppel of lying about his Birthdate (because an unconfirmed serial killer wouldn't have one) and this is where the whole thing started from (from seemingly nowhere too)
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(muttonchops, jabba? wtf?) Seppel, i think there's a difference between being defensive (whereas, i would have posted something along the lines of i'm not scum, because of X) whereas, i was asking why. i wasn't trying to deny anything, simply asking why. thanks assuming my reaction as something it wasn't though.
He's extrapolating that you wanted to figure out the reason, then defend yourself from that. It isn't an unreasonable assumption.
Well, it is flavour speculation, but assuming Jack the Ripper is an SK is a logical assumption... considering Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. "What if he is Jack the Ripper" is a roundabout way of accusation, except it's harder to pin down.
But why do you think he's not giving an example of a flavorfully scummy character with no birth date (motivating Seppel to make something up)?
Promatim accuses Seppel of lying about his Birthdate (because an unconfirmed serial killer wouldn't have one) and this is where the whole thing started from (from seemingly nowhere too)
But why do you think he's not giving an example of a flavorfully scummy character with no birth date (motivating Seppel to make something up)?
No bloody clue. It's definitely random; perhaps he believed a serial killer would rile up the town more than random scumminess, or he couldn't think of anything better? =P
Wait, the wording of the question is wrong. it is literally asking: "Why do you have the opinion that Promatim didn't use a scum example" when it should mean: "What do you think the reasoning is for Promatim not giving a scum example."
Quote from Chubbzilla »
Wouldn't actually asking be better than assuming my intentions? If I did do that you could call me on it, when i did it.
People go off of what they see. The fact of the matter is that you're constantly looking worried about your image, as yoss said this isn't the only post you've looked worried.
Wait, the wording of the question is wrong. it is literally asking: "Why do you have the opinion that Promatim didn't use a scum example" when it should mean: "What do you think the reasoning is for Promatim not giving a scum example."
No, "why don't you think Promatim gave a scum example?" is the question.
SCUM TEAM
Some One
desCoures
TeknoLink
Aquajolt27
SGT_Chubbz
SK
passislisk
I feel confident in my accuracy here.
Interesting thoughts. I hope Seppel turns up town because if not then I doubt the accuracy of this, even though Tekno, aqua, and chubbz all feel like scum.
Dagger and Emo_Pinata's shouting match looks like town vs. town.
I doubt Teknolink came up with a false claim that devious on his own. Either the scum have daytalk or he's telling the truth. If he is scum, he's more than likely a Godfather or untargetable scum trying to waste all of the town's power. I still want to test his ability somehow, but not with one of our more useful roles if we can help it.
Unvote Basilisk [/B]for being awesome.[B]
Vote SGT_Chubbz[/B] for being unawesome.
I agree, EP v. Dagger looks like town v town (which is why they are both in my town list). I'd be fine with either of them getting Seppel's book.
Yeah, we need to avoid targeting Tekno with PR's at all costs. Is there any way we can prove he has this ability and is town without risking a lot of night abilities going to scum dopple?
Can we vote for this guy? Holy crap. Is there some reason you don't hardly comment on ANYTHING except when somebody calls you scum?
[b]Vote: SGT Chubby[/b]
Physically impossible for me to has your babies. My apologies. As for the other topic, it is indeed very possible. He has been lurking pretty hard and contributing almost nothing. [B]@Chubbz[/B] could we get some lists, analysis, or SOMETHING out of you? Because as of right now you are one of the least contributing people, and flew so far under the radar I forgot to even mention you in my entire analysis of the thread.
(quote of nacho)
The dude's making sense. His reads are similar to mine. I have no scum read on New Promatim. I'm still considering SK because of Promatim's babbling implosion about Jack the Ripper, who...
...could plausibly be alive in the 1920s.
Wow.
[B]
@New Promatim[/B]: I DEMAND A NAMECLAIM AS SOON AS YOU RETURN.
Lynching a SK on D1 will give us so much more time.
Just wanted to note this jack the ripper/SK stuff here. I'm going to get to it in a second. nameclaim attempt also duly noted.
Well, it is flavour speculation, but assuming Jack the Ripper is an SK is a logical assumption... considering Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. "What if he is Jack the Ripper" is a roundabout way of accusation, except it's harder to pin down.
[B]@New Promatim:[/B] Nameclaim doesn't sound like a bad idea at this point.
I just want to point out that you are suggesting the newblet that was promatim had enough smarts to suggest Seppel as SK by roundabout explanation through a real serial killer with no known birthdate (the only similarity to Seppel's claim) and yet he DIDN'T have enough savvy to realize that he would be attracting attention to himself if there was an SK in the game? Come on. Either give him the credit or don't, but don't pretend he made a smooth roundabout play very hard to think of as a newb into a huge bumbling error only a newb could make.
I'll explain exactly what happened with the Jack the ripper thing right below.
So. Judging by Promatim's behavior let's assume the following things:
1) This is not a basic so there could be an SK. (This means a lot to a newb, I know having recently gone through this dilemma)
2) Seppel makes an unusually atemporal claim
2a) Promatim believes this claim is a lie because of the fact that everyone else is so far off in birth date, and he wonders if Seppel had to lie because he had no birth date, and wasn't sure of the time frame the game would take place in.
Problem here: If Seppel had been Jack the Ripper he WOULD have known APPROXIMATELY when the game was taking place, and could have just said an 18xx claim and fit in pretty well. This is a fact that it would probably be pretty easy for a newb to overlook, so jumping on his instinct (in an attempt to help us out and actually scumhunt, possibly get some heat off his back) he mentions that what if Seppel was Jack the Ripper, someone with an unknown birth date.
3) Promatim suggests Seppel is someone without a birth date, Jack the Ripper, he doesn't specifically mention the serial killer role until later though.
Here is my task to all of you who think that I am the SK because of Promatim: Off the top of your head, come up with one person (fictional or real) who you would consider scum but not a serial killer who has an unknown birth date. I know damn well that I can't come up with one who even NEARLY rivals the notoriety of Jack the Ripper.
My speculation here is that while Promatim was a little wacko suggesting Jack the Ripper for Seppel, he was correct in that Seppel made up a bad birth year claim. You know what I think that means? He is scum in the cult of Cthulu and attained immortality through that link, which VERY directly fits in with the Cthulu mythos. (I understand this is gaming the mod at least a little, and odd flavor speculation, but certainly not baseless)
About the name claim, I will not name claim yet unless a larger majority (Let's say 5 more people from the 2 we are at now, so 7 total) would like me to. A name claim really doesn't prove anything, there are 22 of us and hundreds of people who could be in this timeline, and there are not many ways it could turn out well for me:
1) I claim a name, everyone is like ok that's a fine name.
Doesn't help town at all, just relieves suspicion of me. Largely irrelevant. (possibly saves us a mislynch, and allows me to continue helping)
(Only really good resolution)
2) I claim a name, one person goes "hey wtfuxup, that's my name":
2a) I made the honest claim, but since I'm under such suspicion that is an easy way to get people against me if the person claiming I claimed there name is at least mildly reputable, and anyone who IS town who has strong SK/scum feelings about me could easily manipulate the game state VERY strongly here. Or even worse an actual scum who is currently under the radar does it to cause the mislynch. Only problem with this logic is when I die they will be known to be lieing, but think about how well this works for them if I don't die until day 2/3. They get to repudiate all of my analysis at little cost, knowing that eventually the town will turn on me just because of my earlier suspicion.
Well worth the cost to the mafia of one single person. Sucks for me, sucks for town.
2b) I fake the claim, someone calls it out, It clears someone for their name but not role or class when I die. Not useful to the town because it's not like any name other than Yoda or Gandhi is 100% guaranteed town.
Sucks for me especially, helps town in that if I fakeclaimed I would probably have been lieing about my town role unless for some other reason I decided it would be a worthwhile gambit.
This appears to me evidence that a name claim is a null-tell at best for the town, and a negative tell on average for me. If someone could elaborate why I would be willing to nameclaim then?
I don't see enough new evidence to change my vote from aquajolt to Chubbz. He is lurking and mildly suspicious, and is higher on my scumdar now though. I'm surprised he lurked through the cracks of my first analysis, and that is a little disturbing.
I just want to point out that you are suggesting the newblet that was promatim had enough smarts to suggest Seppel as SK by roundabout explanation through a real serial killer with no known birthdate (the only similarity to Seppel's claim) and yet he DIDN'T have enough savvy to realize that he would be attracting attention to himself if there was an SK in the game? Come on. Either give him the credit or don't, but don't pretend he made a smooth roundabout play very hard to think of as a newb into a huge bumbling error only a newb could make.
So. Judging by Promatim's behavior let's assume the following things:
*HUGE WALL OF TEXT*
This appears to me evidence that a name claim is a null-tell at best for the town, and a negative tell on average for me. If someone could elaborate why I would be willing to nameclaim then?
I'm not stating he's that clever; I'm not sure he fully realised that he was suggesting that Seppel is an SK, but that's what he did.
A one-for-one town-scum trade doesn't sound too bad. A townie will not lie about their name to incriminate you. To any townie who thinks about doing that: I will find where you live and kick you in the face. Name claim is null but useful to town.
--
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<Limited Clan>
I don't think I've seen either of you play as scum, but I saw nothing I would consider a scum tell in any of your back-and-forth, which is significant simply due to the large number of comments that were made.
Your dig against me is noted though.
Wow, a minor comment before i go to bed, and this is what i come back to? gee, this is what i get for posting instead of lurking *eyes roll out of head
Yes, please lurk in the future instead of posting.
Unless unawesome is codeword for scum, i'm totally lost here.
Liking my vote.
EWP: Yo Basilisk, Seppel was forced to claim before we birthdate-claimed so he couldn't have false-claimed birth decade simply to go with the flow. It's academic because there's no way that Seppel is scum.
Dude I trolled the hell out of Physical Chemistry Mafia and that was last month.
Scum One is just trying to push those last few votes he needs onto me and it's not working because he forgot to say things that aren't dumb.
Of not is that Some One is actually totally correct. Seppel's reaction is to immediately OMGUS SO and call him "scum one" to slant the towns view. *head desk*
It is nice to see we have descended into complete yelling and chaos right now though. To bad I have to figure out why my car wouldn't start this morning, figure out why my job hasn't been taking taxes out of my check, solve the problem of the dude who owes me $40, and work from 6-12am. Otherwise I'd totally come in here and yell a bunch.
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I don't think I've seen either of you play as scum, but I saw nothing I would consider a scum tell in any of your back-and-forth, which is significant simply due to the large number of comments that were made.
Your dig against me is noted though.
You vigged me when I was scum for not scumhunting in Normalville.
EWP: Yo Basilisk, Seppel was forced to claim before we birthdate-claimed so he couldn't have false-claimed birth decade simply to go with the flow. It's academic because there's no way that Seppel is scum.
Problem here: If Seppel had been Jack the Ripper he WOULD have known APPROXIMATELY when the game was taking place, and could have just said an 18xx claim and fit in pretty well. This is a fact that it would probably be pretty easy for a newb to overlook, so jumping on his instinct (in an attempt to help us out and actually scumhunt, possibly get some heat off his back) he mentions that what if Seppel was Jack the Ripper, someone with an unknown birth date.
I know Seppel claimed first which caused the MC of birth decades. Read that part of my post again please, I clearly explain how Seppel would have handled being "jack the ripper" if he was.
@AsianInvasion Please precisely explain to me how the second sentence of your quote is proven.
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Oh no, I mean if you're up for it we could totally explore some other thoughts I have bouncing around my head right now.
Do note this is also my first forum mafia game, I have limited IRC experience, so the only thing I could provide is self-meta which is nearly useless anyway. I play as Passislisk_ on the irc channel, so there might be an infinitesimally small chance someone could identify me from there.
Claim will come at L-2 per usual, I seem to count myself at L-3 though from skimming quickly since the last vote count though.
Wooo so even if I do this you are lynching me tomorrow? SWEET!
In all seriousness, please wait to give me ultimatums and such until I have a chance to fully digest the parts of the thread I'm not sure about tonight, estimated 10pm PST. (I'm at work until 6, and have family engagements until probably 8) I can't really make an argument with just what I remember right now. From what it seems like, just wagoning (that is the correct term for just hopping on a bandwagon correct?) doesn't really help your position, it is neutral at best. I'd like to help as much as I can, but that isn't facilitated by wagonning without a real reason then dieing tomorrow to you kpaca.
I was looking at E_P and I noticed that he said something incredibly protown, possibly without even realizing it. I will not bring it up at this time.
I hear Hugh Heffner is looking to purchase the 30% of Playboy that is owned by the shareholders so he owns the full 100%.
For having only 11 posts, boasting about a vast majority of your posts is stupid and it shows that you are concerned about a self-image that you don't even have.
Unvote, vote desCoures
P.S.: Do you know where your mom was last night?
Me too ;__;
I don't wanna be wrong ;____;
stick with me kid, I'm not wrong
Who are you voting for again?
Aquajolt
Oh yeah. Why?
because he replaced krackshott
who? what did krapshoot do?
Seppel has changed a lot throughout his mafia endeavors and I find myself associating his immaturity with being caught. His normal idea of having fun is catching scum, but when that is deemed impossible after being caught, his idea of fun turns to what we see here.
Dude I trolled the hell out of Physical Chemistry Mafia and that was last month.
Scum One is just trying to push those last few votes he needs onto me and it's not working because he forgot to say things that aren't dumb.
Some One
desCoures
TeknoLink
Aquajolt27
SGT_Chubbz
SK
passislisk
I feel confident in my accuracy here.
For the most obvious question, Kpaca, I’m not willing to vote Seppel. I’m sorry but it would just be too easy to verify his claim. If he’s scum, and passes to someone you determine
To Burboy: My thoughts on voting Krackshots/Aquajolt:
Zzz. /confirm essentially.
Self meta. Awesome. Some random stage bullocks.
Nothing post.
Nothing post.
Flavor speculation.
Interesting flavor thoughts indeed. Insider info? Seems to me like this guy knows something. Really contributes nothing to scumhunting though.
More no-scumhunting + flavor speculation. See a trend?
Fence.
Self-deprecation. For me this is a HUGE tell in a game of mafia. Townies are always confident in at least their own role in the town, so there is no room for self-deprecation in our mindset. Self-deprecation is kind of a jovial, easy-going thing and it detracts attention, making it a good plan for scum. Then resorts to his own lack of meta for the reason to NEED other people to tell him his opinion of Seppel? GGkthxbai.
Flavor speculation, nothing post.
OMG look how huge this post is in comparison to his others? SURELY there must be some substance in here? *reads* hmm. Reaction, red herring, mentions puzzle-skills (but couldn’t figure out why people were against seppel earlier?) and then ends in NOTHING.
Seriously awful play here folks. Clearly a scum, only 11 posts kind-of lurking, no opinions of his own, makes a lot of unimportant flavor speculation, and nothing else.
Scumdar: 8.5
Yes I know this PBPA was done earlier in the thread too, and while I’m primarily rehashing the same stuff, it bears mentioning the stuff I pointed out enough to warrant this at least in a spoiler.
Monkey_Playing_MTG: seems to be lurking a lot. Makes an excuse on 7-7, but then doesn’t post for two more days, and only then making negligible points and not really contributing to scumhunting… Post #760 makes more excuses, and while I can believe some excuses, I would expect this post here to be full of content and energy. Result? Nope. Mentions a post by promatim but gives no detail, then hops on the wagon against promatim. Note his post #771 has some basic flavor speculation and points out a small issue, and then just gives forum mechanics advice. So, @Monkey_Playing_MTG I’d request your opinions on scum, and if you still think it is me, an actually articulated argument please. I will not accept your wagoning, since I can’t actually articulate my points against that, unless you specifically point out who you most closely agree with. Overall kind of lurky which is understandable, but lack of posts after finishing his engagements leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
Scumdar: 6
Teknolink: Ahh, at least he’s not lurking! Unfortunately though, after his post #806 he goes a little off the wall IMO. Up to here he is neutral, maybe slightly on scum side, but PBPA from then on:
Ok, interesting. I've never heard of someone claiming like this when there is no pressure on them unless it is to support a wagon. This seems very out of left field, perhaps a distraction? Very risky gambit though IMO...
O.O ok, interesting. Doppleganger, seems to be compatible flavor-wise with sigmund, but it raises some awkward questions. He proposes a cop targeting him here, which seems like a bad thing to do for scum and good for town on first glance, but think about it. If I'm an important power role for the town why would I target this guy who is taking such a huge gambit (if scum) and seems so pro-town here? He is acting so nice, I'm sure someone will target him and confirm his ability.
Irrelevant, typo or something, who cares.
After a little flak questioning comes his way he starts to get hasty to type up some response. Now not only did he claim so we could get double cop, he claimed so we could get double doctor! suck that one mafia! the only problem is that now he is basically saying HEY DOCTOR TARGET ME, mafia has to be thinking hey lets ignore that guy, he's probably getting targeted for at least a cop and maybe a doc now, and blast some other guy while the PR waste their abilities on him. Interesting role speculation, then adds yet another layer, hey vig want to target me. This is the ONLY redeeming part of his claim since a non-one shot vig doesn't really lose a whole lot by wasting his N1 IMO. Perhaps he has something up his sleeve to protect himself if he is scum? Or maybe just a risky gambit getting the doc + vig to double target him and waste their stuff while he gets off scot free while wasting town power roles for the mafia. Absolutely BRILLIANT if it works.
Really dude? find your last post, look at the NEXT FLIPPING POST AFTER YOURS and answer it, instead of posting asking what his question was.
Serious scumdar here, 7.8
DC: Interesting response to thread happenings, pretty lurky considering only 11 posts. Definitely feeling scum here, not incredibly strong, could just be not-that-interested town. Need more time to review if it seems necessary. 6.9
For my town list, looks like:
EP
Dagger
Burboy
Calvin
In order from least townie to most townie. (approx rating 4 – 2 ).
Feeling scummy:
AsianInvasion – Awkward exchanges, seems to be having a hard time keeping hold of his opinions/arguments. 6.2
Neutrality still in effect for :
TMM (self-deprecation as mentioned earlier in my analysis is a scumtell imo, but could just be newblet uncertainty) 5.3
AlphaInsidious: Don’t remember anything he actually did. Similar to DC but less scumtell in what he has posted, please post a bit more. 5.8
Nacho – Very vigilant scumhunting and I love his playstyle (I play a lot like the aggressive, loves to be obnoxious guy that everyone hates in IRC, but I feel a forum game which is longer requires a little more TLC. ) 4.2
Anyone I forgot to mention (sorry, lot of names)
(typically 4.1 – 5.9 is still pretty neutral for me)
If you are interested in anything else from me LMK, I’d be happy to post more PBPA’s or validate my reasoning, unfortunately bed time soon so I have to wrap this up.
The Denoument:
VOTE: Aquajolt
Based solely on Krackshott's behavior. Haven't really studied aquajolt, a little time constrained. 10m late on this post as is.
@Rianalnn: Can we please get a vote count? I keep having to scan votes to see where they are at and what not, hard to keep track of. ty
I'll be on for ~20m from right now, no later, just fyi. Tomorrow will be able to read and maybe make small responses while at work, but then on tomorrow night after 7:30-8:00 ish.
care to give some specific reasons as to your scum team/SK combo meal?
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I doubt Teknolink came up with a false claim that devious on his own. Either the scum have daytalk or he's telling the truth. If he is scum, he's more than likely a Godfather or untargetable scum trying to waste all of the town's power. I still want to test his ability somehow, but not with one of our more useful roles if we can help it.
@Teknolink: You missed my question too. Can you use an ability you copy the Night you are targeted? Please answer Yes/No/Abstain.
Unvote Basilisk for being awesome.
Vote SGT_Chubbz for being unawesome.
Will you have my babies? Unvote
Can we vote for this guy? Holy crap. Is there some reason you don't hardly comment on ANYTHING except when somebody calls you scum?
Vote: SGT Chubby
I appreciate that this game is moving quickly, & I would like to thank those of you keeping their participation level up.
Vote Count 1.7
Seppel – 7 (kpaca, bateleur, Talore, The_Muffin_Man, TeknoLink, Fenris, Some One)
passilisk – 5 (Dagger, Aquajolt27, Cyouni, Monkey_Playing_MTG, seratonin)
Aquajolt – 2 (burboy, passilisk)
TeknoLink – 2 (AlphaInsidious, desCoures)
SGT_Chubbz – 2 (AsianInvasion, nacho wizard)
Talore – 1 (Emo_Pinata)
desCoures – 1 (Seppel)
Not voting – Calvin, SGT_Chubbz
With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch.
<applauds>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
Holy god I was thinking the same thing.
Vote: Sgt. Jumbotron.
AND AND:
Muttonchops is acting so defensive that I swear I've nailed AT LEAST 3 scum in my list.
News flash, Jabba, I've already explained why they're scum. Hell, I did a PBPA on your man Kracky.
The dude's making sense. His reads are similar to mine. I have no scum read on New Promatim. I'm still considering SK because of Promatim's babbling implosion about Jack the Ripper, who...
...could plausibly be alive in the 1920s.
Wow.
@New Promatim: I DEMAND A NAMECLAIM AS SOON AS YOU RETURN.
Lynching a SK on D1 will give us so much more time.
I wonder why he claimed that date. HMMM. *points up to Wikipedia quote*
Unvote, vote New Promatim
<rolls eyes>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
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<Limited Clan>
Passilisk made several posts that screamed town to me. To the point that the ~20% chance that Promatim was town looks a lot more likely. He's no longer somebody I want to lynch today.
So, actually I would be ashamed if I didn't reconsider my read in light of new evidence? I mean, I didn't think there was anything the replacement could do that would make me not want to lynch him, but those posts were soooo townie. I'm still skeptical, but I'm willing to give this new guy some time to prove himself.
Why?
So what makes one look scummy and one look town?
You mean the decade we know for sure he wasn't born in? Unless an 8 year old was Jack the Ripper...
I'm going to need people to reread this quote, and tell me where he accuses anyone of being an serial killer, or even that Jack the Ripper would be a SK.
Why wouldn't this be the truth of the matter?
Well, it is flavour speculation, but assuming Jack the Ripper is an SK is a logical assumption... considering Jack the Ripper was a serial killer. "What if he is Jack the Ripper" is a roundabout way of accusation, except it's harder to pin down.
You know what? Yeah... Unvote; Vote Sgt. Chubbs
@New Promatim: Nameclaim doesn't sound like a bad idea at this point.
Unless unawesome is codeword for scum, i'm totally lost here.
Obv. since you just did
is there a reason? it could be that a 22 person game if ☺☺☺☺ing huge, aside from having more than a handful of seasoned veterans (AI, Bats, etc) and trying A.) keep up B.) not lurk C.) try to post something not worthless (which i'm sure someone will make a joke at after i post this)
(muttonchops, jabba? wtf?) Seppel, i think there's a difference between being defensive (whereas, i would have posted something along the lines of i'm not scum, because of X) whereas, i was asking why. i wasn't trying to deny anything, simply asking why. thanks assuming my reaction as something it wasn't though.
you're really possessed on that SK comment aren't you?
wow, it's a party. /sarcasm
yes? i'm not saying passislisk is town, but he acts like it more than Promatim did (or at least posts more than promatim did :V)
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Not Making sigs atm
That would be here
Promatim accuses Seppel of lying about his Birthdate (because an unconfirmed serial killer wouldn't have one) and this is where the whole thing started from (from seemingly nowhere too)
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Not Making sigs atm
Unvote; Vote Sgt. Chubbs
He's extrapolating that you wanted to figure out the reason, then defend yourself from that. It isn't an unreasonable assumption.
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
Tell me why.
Why does that make him scum?
No bloody clue. It's definitely random; perhaps he believed a serial killer would rile up the town more than random scumminess, or he couldn't think of anything better? =P
Wait, the wording of the question is wrong. it is literally asking: "Why do you have the opinion that Promatim didn't use a scum example" when it should mean: "What do you think the reasoning is for Promatim not giving a scum example."
People go off of what they see. The fact of the matter is that you're constantly looking worried about your image, as yoss said this isn't the only post you've looked worried.
...because Jack the Ripper was a serial killer.
Interesting thoughts. I hope Seppel turns up town because if not then I doubt the accuracy of this, even though Tekno, aqua, and chubbz all feel like scum.
I agree, EP v. Dagger looks like town v town (which is why they are both in my town list). I'd be fine with either of them getting Seppel's book.
Yeah, we need to avoid targeting Tekno with PR's at all costs. Is there any way we can prove he has this ability and is town without risking a lot of night abilities going to scum dopple?
Physically impossible for me to has your babies. My apologies. As for the other topic, it is indeed very possible. He has been lurking pretty hard and contributing almost nothing. [B]@Chubbz[/B] could we get some lists, analysis, or SOMETHING out of you? Because as of right now you are one of the least contributing people, and flew so far under the radar I forgot to even mention you in my entire analysis of the thread.
Just wanted to note this jack the ripper/SK stuff here. I'm going to get to it in a second. nameclaim attempt also duly noted.
Wow EP thanks for being so logical.
I just want to point out that you are suggesting the newblet that was promatim had enough smarts to suggest Seppel as SK by roundabout explanation through a real serial killer with no known birthdate (the only similarity to Seppel's claim) and yet he DIDN'T have enough savvy to realize that he would be attracting attention to himself if there was an SK in the game? Come on. Either give him the credit or don't, but don't pretend he made a smooth roundabout play very hard to think of as a newb into a huge bumbling error only a newb could make.
I'll explain exactly what happened with the Jack the ripper thing right below.
So. Judging by Promatim's behavior let's assume the following things:
1) This is not a basic so there could be an SK. (This means a lot to a newb, I know having recently gone through this dilemma)
2) Seppel makes an unusually atemporal claim
2a) Promatim believes this claim is a lie because of the fact that everyone else is so far off in birth date, and he wonders if Seppel had to lie because he had no birth date, and wasn't sure of the time frame the game would take place in.
Problem here: If Seppel had been Jack the Ripper he WOULD have known APPROXIMATELY when the game was taking place, and could have just said an 18xx claim and fit in pretty well. This is a fact that it would probably be pretty easy for a newb to overlook, so jumping on his instinct (in an attempt to help us out and actually scumhunt, possibly get some heat off his back) he mentions that what if Seppel was Jack the Ripper, someone with an unknown birth date.
3) Promatim suggests Seppel is someone without a birth date, Jack the Ripper, he doesn't specifically mention the serial killer role until later though.
Here is my task to all of you who think that I am the SK because of Promatim: Off the top of your head, come up with one person (fictional or real) who you would consider scum but not a serial killer who has an unknown birth date. I know damn well that I can't come up with one who even NEARLY rivals the notoriety of Jack the Ripper.
My speculation here is that while Promatim was a little wacko suggesting Jack the Ripper for Seppel, he was correct in that Seppel made up a bad birth year claim. You know what I think that means? He is scum in the cult of Cthulu and attained immortality through that link, which VERY directly fits in with the Cthulu mythos. (I understand this is gaming the mod at least a little, and odd flavor speculation, but certainly not baseless)
About the name claim, I will not name claim yet unless a larger majority (Let's say 5 more people from the 2 we are at now, so 7 total) would like me to. A name claim really doesn't prove anything, there are 22 of us and hundreds of people who could be in this timeline, and there are not many ways it could turn out well for me:
1) I claim a name, everyone is like ok that's a fine name.
Doesn't help town at all, just relieves suspicion of me. Largely irrelevant. (possibly saves us a mislynch, and allows me to continue helping)
(Only really good resolution)
2) I claim a name, one person goes "hey wtfuxup, that's my name":
2a) I made the honest claim, but since I'm under such suspicion that is an easy way to get people against me if the person claiming I claimed there name is at least mildly reputable, and anyone who IS town who has strong SK/scum feelings about me could easily manipulate the game state VERY strongly here. Or even worse an actual scum who is currently under the radar does it to cause the mislynch. Only problem with this logic is when I die they will be known to be lieing, but think about how well this works for them if I don't die until day 2/3. They get to repudiate all of my analysis at little cost, knowing that eventually the town will turn on me just because of my earlier suspicion.
Well worth the cost to the mafia of one single person. Sucks for me, sucks for town.
2b) I fake the claim, someone calls it out, It clears someone for their name but not role or class when I die. Not useful to the town because it's not like any name other than Yoda or Gandhi is 100% guaranteed town.
Sucks for me especially, helps town in that if I fakeclaimed I would probably have been lieing about my town role unless for some other reason I decided it would be a worthwhile gambit.
This appears to me evidence that a name claim is a null-tell at best for the town, and a negative tell on average for me. If someone could elaborate why I would be willing to nameclaim then?
I don't see enough new evidence to change my vote from aquajolt to Chubbz. He is lurking and mildly suspicious, and is higher on my scumdar now though. I'm surprised he lurked through the cracks of my first analysis, and that is a little disturbing.
I'm not stating he's that clever; I'm not sure he fully realised that he was suggesting that Seppel is an SK, but that's what he did.
A one-for-one town-scum trade doesn't sound too bad. A townie will not lie about their name to incriminate you. To any townie who thinks about doing that: I will find where you live and kick you in the face. Name claim is null but useful to town.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I don't think I've seen either of you play as scum, but I saw nothing I would consider a scum tell in any of your back-and-forth, which is significant simply due to the large number of comments that were made.
Your dig against me is noted though.
Yes, please lurk in the future instead of posting.
Liking my vote.
EWP: Yo Basilisk, Seppel was forced to claim before we birthdate-claimed so he couldn't have false-claimed birth decade simply to go with the flow. It's academic because there's no way that Seppel is scum.
Of not is that Some One is actually totally correct. Seppel's reaction is to immediately OMGUS SO and call him "scum one" to slant the towns view. *head desk*
It is nice to see we have descended into complete yelling and chaos right now though. To bad I have to figure out why my car wouldn't start this morning, figure out why my job hasn't been taking taxes out of my check, solve the problem of the dude who owes me $40, and work from 6-12am. Otherwise I'd totally come in here and yell a bunch.
I know Seppel claimed first which caused the MC of birth decades. Read that part of my post again please, I clearly explain how Seppel would have handled being "jack the ripper" if he was.
@AsianInvasion Please precisely explain to me how the second sentence of your quote is proven.