It's interesting you would say you think you know what I mean (about DC) AsianInvasion, considering I have listed exactly zero reasons for why I am growing cold toward DC. Like, I havn't even done my usual not explain but hint bit. As far as I remember that's the first time i've mentioned DC (which ftr can't exactly be a point against shim).
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Born later 1890's. Unvote Vote Seppel
With the sun setting, I again find myself needing to post more and tired of the guessing games. I'm returning to my gut instinct and recasting my stone with kpaca.
Any speculation about seppel's allignment is guessing to me. I've heard the arguements, but I'm still unsure whether or not to consider scum behavoir over an item that is more useful to town than mafia.
Any speculation about seppel's allignment is guessing to me. I've heard the arguements, but I'm still unsure whether or not to consider scum behavoir over an item that is more useful to town than mafia.
Man what a good answer.
You should play mafia more.
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I see what you're saying. Still not sure how much weight I would lend it.
<shrugs>
"I have no strong views on that. Once we're all working with the same clues it's better that we each make up our own mind. Personally, I want to lynch him."
Can you clarify this please? Don't really understand your way of reading it.
<gets out a piece of paper>
Seppel emphasised in this way: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Seppel originally wrote: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Which I read as: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
"The original, unbolded version does not carry the implication that the tapping itself happens at night, merely that the tapping causes one night to be wasted."
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<Limited Clan>
Reminds me of the game Eternal Darkness; at least the inclsion of the sanity
aspect. Hopefully I won't go insane and start seeing things. 0_o
Up to post 520 and have skimmed 640-now to see if I can share some insight or soft claim or whatever.
I do see the soft claim at 506 and a list among the most recent posts.
birth year for me is 189X.
*list of everyone with comments up to post 520*
possible town
burboy - 'new' and 'excited'? seems quite antsy to play and be involved in discussion
nacho - play been caterogized as "annoying", aggressive," buts generates discussion
Dagger - makes lists, don't know where his opinion lies though
Batelur - can only speak in actions and questions. :D, no cases. but many opinions, not till his back and forth with Burboy did we see what opinions he had, suggestion at 518 proposed an idea to move forward
Kpaca - active talker, controlling (at beginning it could be seen that way), assertive none the less though
Seppel - i believe his claim. his offer to allow an ability earlier in the thread was odd to me tho
the 'been observing and making calls, posts haven't stood out alot to me' section (leaning town)
E_P - has done pbpa and voted,
Calvin - saw some pbpa earlier, but no vote?
SGT_Chubbz - didn't see a 'crazy' amount of posts, doesn't stand out to me though, no vote?
The_Muffin_Man - in discussion in beginning/mid thread, haven't seen much of him since late tho
lurkers/not posting alot/i have no clue (neutral, leaning scum)
Some One - null, lurked/not active started to post more recently, no vote?
desCoures - null, same as Some1
Fenris - people are suspicious of em, at least in beginning
Aplhainsidious - haven't seen your posts in a while, least from...300 till 520...
TeknoLink - no clue
seratonin - " "
Cyouni - " "
Monkey - no vote yet? no opinion?
possible scum (at first glance)
Talore - poss scum 328, explodes at 405,
promatim - early small scum suspect early on, hasn't stood out to me greatly though
AsianInvasion - has a role? (post 370), want to hammer to get the book?
I have called some people out for not voting. It would seem hypocritical of me to not vote myself. I would ask for some more time though, so that i may finish catching up with the thread though. I would think that, at least on the first day, one would have an opinion on who they think is the best lynch for the day. Tomorrow (i would think barring time constraints) i hope to catch up and place my vote by the nights end (US EST).
It's interesting you would say you think you know what I mean (about DC) AsianInvasion, considering I have listed exactly zero reasons for why I am growing cold toward DC. Like, I havn't even done my usual not explain but hint bit. As far as I remember that's the first time i've mentioned DC (which ftr can't exactly be a point against shim).
His last post gave me a bad vibe; the vote seems extremely opportunistic.
I have called some people out for not voting. It would seem hypocritical of me to not vote myself. I would ask for some more time though, so that i may finish catching up with the thread though. I would think that, at least on the first day, one would have an opinion on who they think is the best lynch for the day. Tomorrow (i would think barring time constraints) i hope to catch up and place my vote by the nights end (US EST).
Not voting is a null tell. I know for a fact that Calvin is very careful with his vote.
I have you as n00b town for now.
187x or 185x? I sense an inconsistency here.
~~~~~
Also of note is that in the same post in which he claims 187x, he also backtracks from a previous statement that his character wasn't alive in the 1900s. This is another point of concern.
However, I'm not entirely certain what purpose this seeming confusion as to his characters lifespan would actually serve.
I must have typed wrong the first time, it's definitely 185X according to the wiki.
Also, Seppel claimed a separate item card that had rules on it. I wouldn't beleive it to be listed in his role. I'm not sure where the backpedal would be there.
*sigh*
Either you are backpedaling badly, or you're making something else entirely ridiculously obvious. Which is it?
Your posts have had little content so far. This isn't like you.
*sigh*
Fine. Let's make this completely clear, since this roundabout poking obviously isn't working one way or the other.
I don't see that, in any way, as 'proof' of TMM's 'towniness'. There are several possible reasons, in my view, why one might consider TMM town off that debacle:
1. That he said 'townie'. This, however, means absolutely nothing when you consider that the pre-game lists a dead 'Vanilla Townie', from which anyone could derive a Townie claim.
2. His seeming confusion over the subject. This is, to me, at best a null tell -- this 'confusion' has any number of explanations behind it, from the way I initially read it (originally intending to fish for counterclaims following a power role falseclaim, before settling for just a 'townie' claim), to real confusion settled via teammate, assuming scum daytalk.
Besides this, his posts have failed to inspire any form of confidence, with OMGUS against kpaca, waffling and finally barning re: Seppel, pointless sidetracking (re: I-Ching), and basically lacking any form of real content. The 'indignant' attack on kpaca didn't jive, for me, with his later 'admission' of his own bad play in this game -- the former suggests a self-defensive mindset that believes his playstyle to be at least partially justified, while the latter simply does not seem consistent with that.
I understand your reservations about lynching 'n00b town', but in my experience there's very little separating 'n00b town' from 'n00b scum'. I refuse to give people latitude because of relative experience with mafia, one way or the other.
As for you and Seppel, you certainly answered better than Seppel, at least, when questioned re: TMM. I'm just not certain yet how genuine those answers ring.
Born later 1890's. Unvote Vote Seppel
With the sun setting, I again find myself needing to post more and tired of the guessing games. I'm returning to my gut instinct and recasting my stone with kpaca.
His last post gave me a bad vibe; the vote seems extremely opportunistic.
Welcome.
Not voting is a null tell. I know for a fact that Calvin is very careful with his vote.
I have you as n00b town for now.
Query, then, AsianInvasion. What do you think of TeknoLink? With reasons, please.
Promatim re-read was inconclusive, more because of lack of content to analyze than because of any real balance in the town/scum scales. Aquajolt seems strangely self-conscious in his summary post. Re-reading TeknoLink.
Also, the way Emo_Pinata's been equivocating on Seppel's item and role issue makes me doubt they are both mafia.
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
Query, then, AsianInvasion. What do you think of TeknoLink? With reasons, please.
I recommend leaving Teknolink alone for now. If he is scum he will hang himself before long. Based on other games I've played with him (CCM III, Basic #12, Indiana Jones) what he's doing here is within the normal range for his town meta, if a little on the aggressive side.
@Aquajolt - Any particular reason that you believe Seppel's claim?
Based off my limited mafia game experience (2nd game fyi), I usually tend to give people the the benefit of the doubt and see what results flourish from that.
Granted yes, Seppel responded interestingly in the face of 'attacks' and a flurry of questions, but that also happened to me and another in my ongoing game (Basic 23), so I guess I am also slightly sympathizing with him as well.
None the less though, his reactions will be noted and re-read again to see if I can deduce things by looking at it from a different angle. I placed him in 'possible town' because well, for now and at first glance, I believe him to be town. I have my suspicions as everyone else does (or at least should). and if I find suspicions towards someone I will bring it up with them.
The morning is slow, errands stink, and I'm only up to post 560. *sigh* ugh...
I don't have a scum list right now. I have a few people I have people I thought were scum that I can no longer say so with much conviction, but I don't have the next direction I want to go yet.
I had issues with TMM's choice of words, but it was simply his use of mafia terms from another site. I agreed with your case on Seppel until I found a conflicting meta argument; I think this claim is quickly becoming a point against him. I think dagger will continue to look extremely town because he's posting by committee, and I think it will be difficult to find anything against him in entire game. I don't see the krackshot case. I don't know that Promatim apathy says anything about him other than he's not being useful.
And my absence has been due to travel and such that I didn't think would come up. That and I am not quite sure what to say to contribute. But I'm liking Seppels general arguments less and less. So much in fact that.
Unvote. Vote Seppel
Given the range of dates of birth this is sounding more and more like yours is way the hell out there.
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Originally commissioned through High~Light Studios
Sorry for the inactivity. This is always a crazy week for me with my birthday on the 2nd and 4th of July being a family vacation.
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
"I have no strong views on that. Once we're all working with the same clues it's better that we each make up our own mind. Personally, I want to lynch him."
Fair enough.
<gets out a piece of paper>
Seppel emphasised in this way: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Seppel originally wrote: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Which I read as: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
"The original, unbolded version does not carry the implication that the tapping itself happens at night, merely that the tapping causes one night to be wasted."
That's an awkward way of reading it. Besides, I'm not sure what would cause the night to be wasted if not for the actual item tapping at night.
Besides, I'm not sure what would cause the night to be wasted if not for the actual item tapping at night.
<looks shocked>
"But... it's right there in the same sentence! Wait, have you actually never played Magic the Gathering? It's no wonder you're reading the sentence differently if you have no idea how tapping works."
"To be clear: The expectation is that carrying out a tap action during the day would leave you unable to tap at night, because it's a once-per-turn-cycle thing."
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<Limited Clan>
You know, that's an odd question to ask since it makes it really obvious you aren't reading the thread.
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
<considers banging his head on a wall>
<bangs Promatim's head on a wall instead>
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<Limited Clan>
I wanted to know his reasoning because faults in reasoning are generally considered to be a scumtell. He had not posted any reason to be voting, so I was curious as to what caused him to vote. Him posting his reason also might have pointed out something that I had missed. Is that enough of a reason for you?
Yup, that's the sort of answer I was looking for. For Cyouni's sake, I'll say that if you had just quoted some meta gibberish or said "not giving reasons are bad derf derf", then I'd probably be voting you now.
Quote from Cyouni »
In your response to me, who was quoting your post which was responding to Talore, you stated something to the effect of "of course I'll respond abrasively when I'm being misrepped". I was also solely referring to your post that was responding to Talore. So why would you say that if there was no misrep in that post?
(That may be a bit confusing. Ask for clarification if necessary.)
Uh, I'll respond abrasively to other stuff, too? I'm not really sure what you are talking about anymore. If you want me to explain a specific thing, it'd probably help if you quoted it.
Quote from Seratonin »
The book is a powerful device for both town and mafia. For the town, it allows information to be covertly passed along. For the mafia, by passing it on it is capable of sowing dissent among the ranks. Seppel does need to relinquish the tome, but if the options are lynching him or waiting, I'm not sure which course of action I'm willing to take.
There are misgivings, plot holes, descrepencies in Seppel's story, and some less than desirable behavior from him, but I'm giong to review the past pages to see if kpaca has the right idea.
This post is ridiculously wishy-washy.
Quote from AI »
Very good analysis, still find it somewhat strange how differently you're posting here than you did in Angel Mafia.
The people in this game aren't all mouth-breathing mongols.
Quote from TMM »
Okay. Seppel doesn't appear to actually know what the book is.
I'm convinced now that he is, in fact, todays lynch.
We need to decide who hammers. I'm fine with anybody but Asian Invasion hammering.
unvote
vote: Seppel.
No. Nononono. Explain to me how Seppel is lying about his item. I mean, do you think he made all of it up? Why would he lie about being able to send it now? If he was lying all along and can't send it tonight, he would still get lynched tomorrow. He definitely has the book. He hinted at giving it to somebody LONG before he claimed.
Quote from Kpaca »
Also of note is that he posted his answer to EP, then two hours later was like "oh man I should say it's two separate cards". Why did this take him two hours? Why didn't he clarify it in the first place?
What scum motivation is there for him to lie about this?
Quote from Bats »
"Not so. What is suspicious is that he said he could pass it at night ONLY AFTER we insisted he pass it during the day."
Nope. If he was town and saw that he could only pass it at night, why would he think he needed to say he could only pass it at night? If I'd gotten that role as he's claimed it, I probably would never have realized it contradicted the rules.
Quote from Bats »
In this respect I agree.
DUDES: Bats broke his supposed PR right here. He is faking it, 100%. I'm not sure if it's scummy, but it's pretty damn annoying.
Quote from Calvin »
Well the thing is that while my role seems to fit into the timeline of everyone elses roles, it's actually a scummy character (given that usually towns are the "good guys" and mafia the "bad guys" and my character is definitely a "bad guy").
I imagine the rest of the town does not have scummy seeming characters so that would also make me different. But I know that I am still town.
And so I have to wonder if rianlnn didn't purposely throw in more than one oddity to prevent modgaming.
THIS. People should quit gaming the mod about his role being a 4000 year old dude. Ritalin is a better mod than to make the scum roles so obvious.
Also, I'm reading Calvin strongly as town right now.
Quote from Bats »
"However, it's not that we checked everyone's ages and decided to lynch the old guy, which would be questionable. It's that by majority selection a suspect was made to claim and that suspect turned out to be an old guy."
This is terrible logic. 'The one thing by itself wouldn't be scummy. However, given that I already think he is scummy, suddenly this thing is incredibly scummy.'
Quote from TeknoLink »
I remember when I did this as noob town, revealing part of my role one step at a time. I got lynched for it. However, Seppel is not noob, and certainly not stupid. Taking that into account I'm going to Vote: Seppel.
Let me make sure I understand you. When you were newb town, you were being stupid and claimed your role bit by bit and got falsely lynched for it. And you agree that it was scummy and want to lynch Seppel because he's better than you and so it should actually apply to him when it didn't to you?
Uh, I think this is the first time I've ever seen somebody claim they thought a lynch on them was justified when they were town. This is a really weird post.
Quote from AI »
Considering that the first of those players was someone who'd never played a MTGS game before and had no meta experience and little name recognition, I wasn't worried that he got a bad vibe from me because his case wasn't great. When the second of those players, someone who'd played with me on several occasions and is well-respected in the community wants me to respond, then I do so. Is that so hard to grasp?
You seem to be saying here that you didn't care about showing how bad the case was because the person making the case wasn't likely to be listened to. Am I wrong? Are you really blatantly admitting that you didn't care about defending yourself against somebody because you weren't worried about them getting you lynched?
@Bats: Ok, one more time on the timing discrepancy with Seppel's item. Do you think he faked getting in trouble for posting in the thread during the day? Do you think he orchestrated that whole modkill thing in order to divert kpaca's case? Even though kpaca was pretty much the only person voting him at the time. Because if you don't believe he was making that up, then it makes no sense that he could pass the book during the day but only write in it at night.
Quote from Dagger »
1. If he did it as town, he knew perfectly well it was a terrible scum tell.
2. The argument "experienced players that don't play like textbook town must be scum" is horrible.
3. As a scum, TL used the exact same argument.
Yeah, that seemed pretty goofy. Does anybody have an example of doing this as town? If not, this is pretty damning.
Quote from TeknoLink »
And you'd think I didn't learn from my last encounter with the lynching pole? Honestly now. But I'm just pissed that last clan mafia game that got me lynched and people like Seppel can do it because 'they're seppel' and because I used that argument as scum.
Also of note is that in the same post in which he claims 187x, he also backtracks from a previous statement that his character wasn't alive in the 1900s. This is another point of concern.
However, I'm not entirely certain what purpose this seeming confusion as to his characters lifespan would actually serve.
Can you quote or link the post where he says he wasn't alive in the 1900s? I can think of a reason for him to be lying and scum. He's a really old character and wants to continue with a Seppel mislynch. In the course of doing this, he forgot the stuff he'd already said about his role because he's making it all up. I've done that as scum - forgetting that I already posted something and then posting it again/slightly differently.
I really want to see this post of his where he said not alive in 1900s, because if that was before people got on Seppel for the 4000 year old thing, that is REALLY scummy.
Quote from Promatim »
Yes, I will do my best.
Starting...?
Quote from Promatim »
Has anyone gotten anything from the soft claim on decades?
...Anything like what? Are you even bothering to read the thread?
Quote from Promatim »
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
Explain the bolded. Why could Seppel be Jack the Ripper? What does that have to do with anything itt? Do you think he is a SK? That's interesting.
Also, Seppel claimed a separate item card that had rules on it. I wouldn't beleive it to be listed in his role. I'm not sure where the backpedal would be there.
With the sun setting, I again find myself needing to post more and tired of the guessing games. I'm returning to my gut instinct and recasting my stone with kpaca.
Going with the flow is a scummy reason for voting someone.
possible town
burboy - 'new' and 'excited'? seems quite antsy to play and be involved in discussion
nacho - play been caterogized as "annoying", aggressive," buts generates discussion
Dagger - makes lists, don't know where his opinion lies though
Batelur - can only speak in actions and questions. :D, no cases. but many opinions, not till his back and forth with Burboy did we see what opinions he had, suggestion at 518 proposed an idea to move forward
Kpaca - active talker, controlling (at beginning it could be seen that way), assertive none the less though
Seppel - i believe his claim. his offer to allow an ability earlier in the thread was odd to me tho
the 'been observing and making calls, posts haven't stood out alot to me' section (leaning town)
E_P - has done pbpa and voted,
Calvin - saw some pbpa earlier, but no vote?
SGT_Chubbz - didn't see a 'crazy' amount of posts, doesn't stand out to me though, no vote?
The_Muffin_Man - in discussion in beginning/mid thread, haven't seen much of him since late tho
lurkers/not posting alot/i have no clue (neutral, leaning scum)
Some One - null, lurked/not active started to post more recently, no vote?
desCoures - null, same as Some1
Fenris - people are suspicious of em, at least in beginning
Aplhainsidious - haven't seen your posts in a while, least from...300 till 520...
TeknoLink - no clue
seratonin - " "
Cyouni - " "
Monkey - no vote yet? no opinion?
possible scum (at first glance)
Talore - poss scum 328, explodes at 405,
promatim - early small scum suspect early on, hasn't stood out to me greatly though
AsianInvasion - has a role? (post 370), want to hammer to get the book?
A majority of your read seems to be a summary of a player's actions. How did you categorize them as you did here?
I don't have a scum list right now. I have a few people I have people I thought were scum that I can no longer say so with much conviction, but I don't have the next direction I want to go yet.
Curious. In my case, I have too many scums and am trying to weed out those that only look scummy from actual scums. I don't suppose you're seeing town everywhere because you know for a fact that there are town everywhere?
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
Do you think [Seppel] faked getting in trouble for posting in the thread during the day? Do you think he orchestrated that whole modkill thing in order to divert kpaca's case?
"I don't have a useful view on either question. Because unlike very nearly every Mafia player I've ever played with I don't fancy myself as a mind reader (or a psychologist of near magical skills)."
"If I had to guess my guess would be that his drama was not faked, but that his reactions to kpaca were indeed due to frustration due to being under pressure as scum."
Quote from nacho wizard »
Because if you don't believe he was making that up, then it makes no sense that he could pass the book during the day but only write in it at night.
"You are still talking as if Seppel's item in some way resembles the one he described. If your intention is to ask me about my perspective, remember that I believe no such thing."
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<Limited Clan>
"I don't have a useful view on either question. Because unlike very nearly every Mafia player I've ever played with I don't fancy myself as a mind reader (or a psychologist of near magical skills)."
Uh, what? This isn't about mind reading, I'm asking what you think is likely to have happened. That is not so much mind reading as simple logic? I'm not asking what happened, I'm asking what you THINK happened.
"If I had to guess my guess would be that his drama was not faked, but that his reactions to kpaca were indeed due to frustration due to being under pressure as scum."
"You are still talking as if Seppel's item in some way resembles the one he described. If your intention is to ask me about my perspective, remember that I believe no such thing."
No, that's not what I asked. Do you think he lied about getting in trouble for posting in his book during the day and got warned with a modkill? If you think he is lying about what the book does, you MUST think that is a lie. This is really basic logic. Or, do you think he almost got modkilled for something else?
Because you can't use circumstantial evidence to make your case and then ignore the same kind of evidence that hurts your case.
You think he's lying about his item. You think his flavor doesn't make sense. Ok, great. But that means you have to justify why you think the things he's very unlikely to be lying about are false.
If Seppel is lying about his item and what it does, you should have an opinion on how all the things he's said about it are lies. You don't get to just hand wave "he's lying" without explaining how and why he would be lying as scum. ☺☺☺☺, he could be lying about his role and item and still be town.
All I'm asking is for you to make a case for him as SCUM that takes into account ALL of the things he's done in the game so far.
FYI, I strongly considered lying about when my character was born just because the flavor case seems so dumb to me. This is more directed to Ritalin/spectators than you guys.
I'm not asking what happened, I'm asking what you THINK happened.
"It's the same thing. How could any player besides Seppel possibly know? You're asking me to guess. I'm saying that's not productive."
Quote from nacho wizard »
"Do you think he lied about getting in trouble for posting in his book during the day and got warned with a modkill?"
<facepalms>
"In order to post in his book, wouldn't he have to have a book you can post in? I don't know exactly what he got in trouble for, but I'm betting that's not it."
"It's not even all that plausible. If he can't pass the book during the day they does it really even matter if he posts in it? Really? Enough to be worth a modkill?!"
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<Limited Clan>
"It's the same thing. How could any player besides Seppel possibly know? You're asking me to guess. I'm saying that's not productive."
Actually, it's very productive for people that aren't you. See, I don't feel like you are being entirely genuine in your desire to lynch Seppel. Posting your thought process and explaining your case better helps with that.
<facepalms>
"In order to post in his book, wouldn't he have to have a book you can post in? I don't know exactly what he got in trouble for, but I'm betting that's not it."
"It's not even all that plausible. If he can't pass the book during the day they does it really even matter if he posts in it? Really? Enough to be worth a modkill?!"
There was more in that post to respond to, dude.
Ok! So, you think he didn't actually get in trouble for writing in it during the day, right? Let's ignore for a second that your last bit here is irrelevant, because clearly it didn't warrant a modkill, because he is still alive QED.
Now, we are getting somewhere. You clearly think Seppel is lying scum. My interpretation of the modkill thing makes me think he is really likely to be telling the truth, and I'm in the process of showing you why.
If Seppel was lying about getting in trouble for the book, you HAVE to believe one of the two things that logically follow from that:
1) He got in trouble for something else, possibly role related. Explain to me what you think this something else could be.
2) He made up the whole thing about getting in trouble. Explain to me how you think it makes sense for Seppel to come up with such a cleverly bizarre gambit. Meaning, why do you think it's more likely that he would make up such a thing?
Speculation here is great! I will even speculate for you if you really, really need the help. Because if you aren't thinking about this, then all you are doing itt is going "RAWR FLAVOR MAKE NO SENSE HE LIE VOTE VOTE VOTE" without thinking anything through.
Because correct me if I'm wrong, but your case on him seems to be
-Flavor makes little sense
-he reacted poorly to kpaca
-too many coincidences in his claim
-he has claimed more (in a convenient way) as pressed
The first is gaming the mod, quit it. The second is arbitrary and you need to explain why you think the way he reacted was scum Seppel and couldn't be town Seppel. The third and fourth are what we are addressing right now. You can't just go "blargh coincidences" without looking at the coincidences that seem townie.
For you to think Seppel is scum, you are postulating that he made up all of the details about this very flavorful and neatly designed item. You have to think he faked almost getting modkilled or he got almost modkilled for something different and decided to tell us for some reason. You have to think that he has continuously and aggressively fake-hunted scum even when near his own lynch.
I think all of these things are strong town tells in his favor and outweigh him getting pissed at kpaca and string claiming. Convince me that the case on him is not super terrible. You want me to help you lynch scum, right? Help me, help you.
So... I didn't buy it was on his role PM, and he said it had a separate card for it. Guess what, if someone wanted to lynch correctly he would point out that his item doesn't have its own card. That were belief falls into place - he claimed said something that seemed dubious, but then claimed something that could and would be contradicted if he lied about. There's no possible way to view that as backpedaling since it was a change in stance in light of new, concrete information; not shifting a stance based on nothing.
Continuing to press this makes no sense, and it didn't make much sense to begin with.
Curious. In my case, I have too many scums and am trying to weed out those that only look scummy from actual scums. I don't suppose you're seeing town everywhere because you know for a fact that there are town everywhere?
I never said I see too many town everywhere. You have made this fact up, and the fact that you have such a colored opinion on my posts regardless of content is disturbing. You have taken a post explaining who I had my eye on and why I am not pressing for their lynch and filtered it to defending everyone in the game.
HAVE to believe one of the two things that logically follow from that
<nods>
"Yes, one of those two must apply. I agree."
"Since you seem to see value in getting me to make guesses, I guess number 1). But no, I don't know what got him in trouble. It doesn't have to be something that was visible from the thread."
Quote from nacho wizard »
"Speculation here is great!"
Quote from nacho wizard »
"The first is gaming the mod"
"I disagree with you on the most fundamental level possible concerning how best to play Mafia."
Quote from nacho wizard »
"You want me to help you lynch scum, right?"
"Not in the sense you mean, no."
"A good Town works using the wisdom of crowds effect. I present observations, then vote. You read what I have written and agree or not. Then I am done."
"I have made my observations very, very clear. There is really no need to retread this material again."
"If you don't agree, I have no problem with that. You must vote as you see fit."
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<Limited Clan>
So... I didn't buy it was on his role PM, and he said it had a separate card for it. Guess what, if someone wanted to lynch correctly he would point out that his item doesn't have its own card. That were belief falls into place - he claimed said something that seemed dubious, but then claimed something that could and would be contradicted if he lied about. There's no possible way to view that as backpedaling since it was a change in stance in light of new, concrete information; not shifting a stance based on nothing.
Continuing to press this makes no sense, and it didn't make much sense to begin with.
Continue to press this?
I stated an opinion. You asked me to clarify. I clarified. And now you claimed it was because I was continuing to press this?
I never said I see too many town everywhere. You have made this fact up, and the fact that you have such a colored opinion on my posts regardless of content is disturbing. You have taken a post explaining who I had my eye on and why I am not pressing for their lynch and filtered it to defending everyone in the game.
And I never said you were defending everyone in the game.
You are in my scum list and when you claimed that you have no idea where to pursue next because the few people you deemed as scums didn't seem like scums anymore, I proposed the possibility that you lack direction because you know they are town.
It was a jab.
A jab to see how you responded and you exploded because of it?
"Since you seem to see value in getting me to make guesses, I guess number 1). But no, I don't know what got him in trouble. It doesn't have to be something that was visible from the thread."
Wow.
"I disagree with you on the most fundamental level possible concerning how best to play Mafia."
Just to be clear, you think that Ritalin included only one 4000 year old dude in the game and made him scum without giving him any fake claims. To me, this is the same as you saying "the mod is terrible, lynch this guy now".
"Not in the sense you mean, no."
"A good Town works using the wisdom of crowds effect. I present observations, then vote. You read what I have written and agree or not. Then I am done."
"I have made my observations very, very clear. There is really no need to retread this material again."
"If you don't agree, I have no problem with that. You must vote as you see fit."
This thinking is so completely foreign to me, I have no idea what to make of it.
Like, you think a dude is scum and will say so, but you don't CARE if he gets lynched? I mean, you could be the best analyst ever, but if you don't try to convince people you are right, what is the point?
Because all I'm seeing right now is a lazy dude who doesn't want to back up his case that I'm tearing apart.
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
I am going to give you one post to respond to questions asked of you and to show a decent level of commitment and participation to this game or I am going to see you dead.
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Fine. Let's make this completely clear, since this roundabout poking obviously isn't working one way or the other.
I don't see that, in any way, as 'proof' of TMM's 'towniness'. There are several possible reasons, in my view, why one might consider TMM town off that debacle:
1. That he said 'townie'. This, however, means absolutely nothing when you consider that the pre-game lists a dead 'Vanilla Townie', from which anyone could derive a Townie claim.
OK. This is not my reasoning.
2. His seeming confusion over the subject. This is, to me, at best a null tell -- this 'confusion' has any number of explanations behind it, from the way I initially read it (originally intending to fish for counterclaims following a power role falseclaim, before settling for just a 'townie' claim), to real confusion settled via teammate, assuming scum daytalk.
Besides this, his posts have failed to inspire any form of confidence, with OMGUS against kpaca, waffling and finally barning re: Seppel, pointless sidetracking (re: I-Ching), and basically lacking any form of real content. The 'indignant' attack on kpaca didn't jive, for me, with his later 'admission' of his own bad play in this game -- the former suggests a self-defensive mindset that believes his playstyle to be at least partially justified, while the latter simply does not seem consistent with that.
I understand your reservations about lynching 'n00b town', but in my experience there's very little separating 'n00b town' from 'n00b scum'. I refuse to give people latitude because of relative experience with mafia, one way or the other.
As for you and Seppel, you certainly answered better than Seppel, at least, when questioned re: TMM. I'm just not certain yet how genuine those answers ring.
Yes, the confusion is what I'm going off of.
I hadn't considered your alternate options. My initial impression is that they are not as applicable but I'll need to go back and analyze his reactions again to see if I'm wrong.
As for newb town vs. newb scum I find it harder to actually parse newb bungling vs. scum mindset. They will both make a lot of generic scumtells and have confusing motives.
Do you take mt a into account? This is sort of the same thing - taking into account an individuals circumstances and not just assuming that each player is the same.
"But... it's right there in the same sentence! Wait, have you actually never played Magic the Gathering? It's no wonder you're reading the sentence differently if you have no idea how tapping works."
"To be clear: The expectation is that carrying out a tap action during the day would leave you unable to tap at night, because it's a once-per-turn-cycle thing."
Oh wow. That was dumb. Makes more sense now, thanks.
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
Even if Seppel is scum , he's probably not lying about the role.
I'm not sure where the Jack the Ripper is coming from. Very arbitrary.
This is terrible logic. 'The one thing by itself wouldn't be scummy. However, given that I already think he is scummy, suddenly this thing is incredibly scummy.'
Oh wow, you managed to say what I was trying to say so succinctly.
All right now I'm gone. I'll read the billion pages that appear during my absence when I come back.
I am going to give you one post to respond to questions asked of you and to show a decent level of commitment and participation to this game or I am going to see you dead.
This. (unless Promatim actually starts playing more (pot kettle black i know xp)
Speculation: unless the last 2 soft Claims are Way out there (as far as compared to the others), I'm re-thinking about seppel's pseudo immortal role
@Nacho/Burboy(who i haven't seen post lately? burboy i mean): Birthdate Soft Claims please? we're waiting on you two
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Unvote
Vote Seppel
With the sun setting, I again find myself needing to post more and tired of the guessing games. I'm returning to my gut instinct and recasting my stone with kpaca.
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Man what a good answer.
You should play mafia more.
<shrugs>
<gets out a piece of paper>
Seppel emphasised in this way: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Seppel originally wrote: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
Which I read as: "Any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
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<Limited Clan>
Will we be seeing a more extensive post from you soon...?
Quotes in blog.
if there is anything pressing that needs to be addressed now, lemme know. be back later tonight.
Executive Infiltrator of [House Dimir].
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aspect. Hopefully I won't go insane and start seeing things. 0_o
Up to post 520 and have skimmed 640-now to see if I can share some insight or soft claim or whatever.
I do see the soft claim at 506 and a list among the most recent posts.
birth year for me is 189X.
*list of everyone with comments up to post 520*
possible town
burboy - 'new' and 'excited'? seems quite antsy to play and be involved in discussion
nacho - play been caterogized as "annoying", aggressive," buts generates discussion
Dagger - makes lists, don't know where his opinion lies though
Batelur - can only speak in actions and questions. :D, no cases. but many opinions, not till his back and forth with Burboy did we see what opinions he had, suggestion at 518 proposed an idea to move forward
Kpaca - active talker, controlling (at beginning it could be seen that way), assertive none the less though
Seppel - i believe his claim. his offer to allow an ability earlier in the thread was odd to me tho
the 'been observing and making calls, posts haven't stood out alot to me' section (leaning town)
E_P - has done pbpa and voted,
Calvin - saw some pbpa earlier, but no vote?
SGT_Chubbz - didn't see a 'crazy' amount of posts, doesn't stand out to me though, no vote?
The_Muffin_Man - in discussion in beginning/mid thread, haven't seen much of him since late tho
lurkers/not posting alot/i have no clue (neutral, leaning scum)
Some One - null, lurked/not active started to post more recently, no vote?
desCoures - null, same as Some1
Fenris - people are suspicious of em, at least in beginning
Aplhainsidious - haven't seen your posts in a while, least from...300 till 520...
TeknoLink - no clue
seratonin - " "
Cyouni - " "
Monkey - no vote yet? no opinion?
possible scum (at first glance)
Talore - poss scum 328, explodes at 405,
promatim - early small scum suspect early on, hasn't stood out to me greatly though
AsianInvasion - has a role? (post 370), want to hammer to get the book?
I have called some people out for not voting. It would seem hypocritical of me to not vote myself. I would ask for some more time though, so that i may finish catching up with the thread though. I would think that, at least on the first day, one would have an opinion on who they think is the best lynch for the day. Tomorrow (i would think barring time constraints) i hope to catch up and place my vote by the nights end (US EST).
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His last post gave me a bad vibe; the vote seems extremely opportunistic.
Welcome.
Not voting is a null tell. I know for a fact that Calvin is very careful with his vote.
I have you as n00b town for now.
Also of note is that in the same post in which he claims 187x, he also backtracks from a previous statement that his character wasn't alive in the 1900s. This is another point of concern.
However, I'm not entirely certain what purpose this seeming confusion as to his characters lifespan would actually serve.
@Emo_Pinata
*sigh*
Either you are backpedaling badly, or you're making something else entirely ridiculously obvious. Which is it?
@Calvin
*sigh*
Fine. Let's make this completely clear, since this roundabout poking obviously isn't working one way or the other.
I don't see that, in any way, as 'proof' of TMM's 'towniness'. There are several possible reasons, in my view, why one might consider TMM town off that debacle:
1. That he said 'townie'. This, however, means absolutely nothing when you consider that the pre-game lists a dead 'Vanilla Townie', from which anyone could derive a Townie claim.
2. His seeming confusion over the subject. This is, to me, at best a null tell -- this 'confusion' has any number of explanations behind it, from the way I initially read it (originally intending to fish for counterclaims following a power role falseclaim, before settling for just a 'townie' claim), to real confusion settled via teammate, assuming scum daytalk.
Besides this, his posts have failed to inspire any form of confidence, with OMGUS against kpaca, waffling and finally barning re: Seppel, pointless sidetracking (re: I-Ching), and basically lacking any form of real content. The 'indignant' attack on kpaca didn't jive, for me, with his later 'admission' of his own bad play in this game -- the former suggests a self-defensive mindset that believes his playstyle to be at least partially justified, while the latter simply does not seem consistent with that.
I understand your reservations about lynching 'n00b town', but in my experience there's very little separating 'n00b town' from 'n00b scum'. I refuse to give people latitude because of relative experience with mafia, one way or the other.
As for you and Seppel, you certainly answered better than Seppel, at least, when questioned re: TMM. I'm just not certain yet how genuine those answers ring.
@seratonin
....wow?
HoS: seratonin
@AsianInvasion
Query, then, AsianInvasion. What do you think of TeknoLink? With reasons, please.
Promatim re-read was inconclusive, more because of lack of content to analyze than because of any real balance in the town/scum scales. Aquajolt seems strangely self-conscious in his summary post. Re-reading TeknoLink.
Also, the way Emo_Pinata's been equivocating on Seppel's item and role issue makes me doubt they are both mafia.
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Born in 190x
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I recommend leaving Teknolink alone for now. If he is scum he will hang himself before long. Based on other games I've played with him (CCM III, Basic #12, Indiana Jones) what he's doing here is within the normal range for his town meta, if a little on the aggressive side.
Yes, I will do my best.
I did have the 5th off, and it was lovely. Went down to my favorite LGS and drafted, walked around Baltimore in 95 degree weather.
But now I am ready to catch up.
Questions:
Has anyone gotten anything from the soft claim on decades?
@Aquajolt - Any particular reason that you believe Seppel's claim?
Quotes in blog.
Based off my limited mafia game experience (2nd game fyi), I usually tend to give people the the benefit of the doubt and see what results flourish from that.
Granted yes, Seppel responded interestingly in the face of 'attacks' and a flurry of questions, but that also happened to me and another in my ongoing game (Basic 23), so I guess I am also slightly sympathizing with him as well.
None the less though, his reactions will be noted and re-read again to see if I can deduce things by looking at it from a different angle. I placed him in 'possible town' because well, for now and at first glance, I believe him to be town. I have my suspicions as everyone else does (or at least should). and if I find suspicions towards someone I will bring it up with them.
The morning is slow, errands stink, and I'm only up to post 560. *sigh* ugh...
Hello to you too!
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You know, that's an odd question to ask since it makes it really obvious you aren't reading the thread.
191x (1) - TMM
190x (2) - Calvin, Monkey
189x (6) - Chubbz, Cyouni, Asian, Seratonin, SO, Aquajolt
188x (3) - Bat, dC, Promatim
187x (1) - Dagger
185x (2) - TL, EP
Non-Canon? (1) - Talore
2800 BC (1) - Seppel
Tight-lipped (1) - kpaca
Left to claim: nacho wizard, burboy, Fenris, and AlphaInsidious
I had issues with TMM's choice of words, but it was simply his use of mafia terms from another site. I agreed with your case on Seppel until I found a conflicting meta argument; I think this claim is quickly becoming a point against him. I think dagger will continue to look extremely town because he's posting by committee, and I think it will be difficult to find anything against him in entire game. I don't see the krackshot case. I don't know that Promatim apathy says anything about him other than he's not being useful.
And my absence has been due to travel and such that I didn't think would come up. That and I am not quite sure what to say to contribute. But I'm liking Seppels general arguments less and less. So much in fact that.
Unvote. Vote Seppel
Given the range of dates of birth this is sounding more and more like yours is way the hell out there.
Sorry for the inactivity. This is always a crazy week for me with my birthday on the 2nd and 4th of July being a family vacation.
Offtopic: Happy birthday!
Quotes in blog.
Fair enough.
That's an awkward way of reading it. Besides, I'm not sure what would cause the night to be wasted if not for the actual item tapping at night.
What PBPA?
And as Asian said, I am cautious with my vote.
?
Heh, I love when you do this.
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I will be gone for two weeks, starting tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
<looks shocked>
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<Limited Clan>
You never know, people could have different or more in depth interpretations other than just "Seppel is a million years old."
Personally, I think Seppel is lying. I am no history buff, but what if he is Jack the Ripper? An unidentified serial killer wouldn't have a birth date, so he'd have to make something up.
Why he'd choose 2800 BC is beyond me. Wikipedia says a chinese emperor was born then, but that seems super off-flavor.
My guess, Seppel is trying to distract us with a red herring date, instead of making up something easy like 18'something.
<considers banging his head on a wall>
<bangs Promatim's head on a wall instead>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
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<Limited Clan>
Yup, that's the sort of answer I was looking for. For Cyouni's sake, I'll say that if you had just quoted some meta gibberish or said "not giving reasons are bad derf derf", then I'd probably be voting you now.
Uh, I'll respond abrasively to other stuff, too? I'm not really sure what you are talking about anymore. If you want me to explain a specific thing, it'd probably help if you quoted it.
This post is ridiculously wishy-washy.
The people in this game aren't all mouth-breathing mongols.
No. Nononono. Explain to me how Seppel is lying about his item. I mean, do you think he made all of it up? Why would he lie about being able to send it now? If he was lying all along and can't send it tonight, he would still get lynched tomorrow. He definitely has the book. He hinted at giving it to somebody LONG before he claimed.
What scum motivation is there for him to lie about this?
Nope. If he was town and saw that he could only pass it at night, why would he think he needed to say he could only pass it at night? If I'd gotten that role as he's claimed it, I probably would never have realized it contradicted the rules.
DUDES: Bats broke his supposed PR right here. He is faking it, 100%. I'm not sure if it's scummy, but it's pretty damn annoying.
THIS. People should quit gaming the mod about his role being a 4000 year old dude. Ritalin is a better mod than to make the scum roles so obvious.
Also, I'm reading Calvin strongly as town right now.
This is terrible logic. 'The one thing by itself wouldn't be scummy. However, given that I already think he is scummy, suddenly this thing is incredibly scummy.'
Let me make sure I understand you. When you were newb town, you were being stupid and claimed your role bit by bit and got falsely lynched for it. And you agree that it was scummy and want to lynch Seppel because he's better than you and so it should actually apply to him when it didn't to you?
Uh, I think this is the first time I've ever seen somebody claim they thought a lynch on them was justified when they were town. This is a really weird post.
You seem to be saying here that you didn't care about showing how bad the case was because the person making the case wasn't likely to be listened to. Am I wrong? Are you really blatantly admitting that you didn't care about defending yourself against somebody because you weren't worried about them getting you lynched?
@Bats: Ok, one more time on the timing discrepancy with Seppel's item. Do you think he faked getting in trouble for posting in the thread during the day? Do you think he orchestrated that whole modkill thing in order to divert kpaca's case? Even though kpaca was pretty much the only person voting him at the time. Because if you don't believe he was making that up, then it makes no sense that he could pass the book during the day but only write in it at night.
Yeah, that seemed pretty goofy. Does anybody have an example of doing this as town? If not, this is pretty damning.
What? Rephrase this?
Man, why did I stop voting you? Vote: Promatim
Make with the content or make with the dying.
Continued...
Can you quote or link the post where he says he wasn't alive in the 1900s? I can think of a reason for him to be lying and scum. He's a really old character and wants to continue with a Seppel mislynch. In the course of doing this, he forgot the stuff he'd already said about his role because he's making it all up. I've done that as scum - forgetting that I already posted something and then posting it again/slightly differently.
I really want to see this post of his where he said not alive in 1900s, because if that was before people got on Seppel for the 4000 year old thing, that is REALLY scummy.
Starting...?
...Anything like what? Are you even bothering to read the thread?
Explain the bolded. Why could Seppel be Jack the Ripper? What does that have to do with anything itt? Do you think he is a SK? That's interesting.
I was born in 1905.
I see.
The disbelief followed by belief.
Going with the flow is a scummy reason for voting someone.
A majority of your read seems to be a summary of a player's actions. How did you categorize them as you did here?
Curious. In my case, I have too many scums and am trying to weed out those that only look scummy from actual scums. I don't suppose you're seeing town everywhere because you know for a fact that there are town everywhere?
Happy Birthday!~, though it's a week too late.
Doesn't mean you get into the town list though.
/motion for a vigshot
Well, either ^ or EP would be delightful.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Good observation on the SK issue. And we all know there's only one type of scums that hunt for the SK.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Uh, what? This isn't about mind reading, I'm asking what you think is likely to have happened. That is not so much mind reading as simple logic? I'm not asking what happened, I'm asking what you THINK happened.
No, that's not what I asked. Do you think he lied about getting in trouble for posting in his book during the day and got warned with a modkill? If you think he is lying about what the book does, you MUST think that is a lie. This is really basic logic. Or, do you think he almost got modkilled for something else?
Because you can't use circumstantial evidence to make your case and then ignore the same kind of evidence that hurts your case.
You think he's lying about his item. You think his flavor doesn't make sense. Ok, great. But that means you have to justify why you think the things he's very unlikely to be lying about are false.
If Seppel is lying about his item and what it does, you should have an opinion on how all the things he's said about it are lies. You don't get to just hand wave "he's lying" without explaining how and why he would be lying as scum. ☺☺☺☺, he could be lying about his role and item and still be town.
All I'm asking is for you to make a case for him as SCUM that takes into account ALL of the things he's done in the game so far.
@Dagger: What is wrong with you? Let him respond.
My bad then. I thought you were pointing it out.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
<facepalms>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Actually, it's very productive for people that aren't you. See, I don't feel like you are being entirely genuine in your desire to lynch Seppel. Posting your thought process and explaining your case better helps with that.
There was more in that post to respond to, dude.
Ok! So, you think he didn't actually get in trouble for writing in it during the day, right? Let's ignore for a second that your last bit here is irrelevant, because clearly it didn't warrant a modkill, because he is still alive QED.
Now, we are getting somewhere. You clearly think Seppel is lying scum. My interpretation of the modkill thing makes me think he is really likely to be telling the truth, and I'm in the process of showing you why.
If Seppel was lying about getting in trouble for the book, you HAVE to believe one of the two things that logically follow from that:
1) He got in trouble for something else, possibly role related. Explain to me what you think this something else could be.
2) He made up the whole thing about getting in trouble. Explain to me how you think it makes sense for Seppel to come up with such a cleverly bizarre gambit. Meaning, why do you think it's more likely that he would make up such a thing?
Speculation here is great! I will even speculate for you if you really, really need the help. Because if you aren't thinking about this, then all you are doing itt is going "RAWR FLAVOR MAKE NO SENSE HE LIE VOTE VOTE VOTE" without thinking anything through.
Because correct me if I'm wrong, but your case on him seems to be
-Flavor makes little sense
-he reacted poorly to kpaca
-too many coincidences in his claim
-he has claimed more (in a convenient way) as pressed
The first is gaming the mod, quit it. The second is arbitrary and you need to explain why you think the way he reacted was scum Seppel and couldn't be town Seppel. The third and fourth are what we are addressing right now. You can't just go "blargh coincidences" without looking at the coincidences that seem townie.
For you to think Seppel is scum, you are postulating that he made up all of the details about this very flavorful and neatly designed item. You have to think he faked almost getting modkilled or he got almost modkilled for something different and decided to tell us for some reason. You have to think that he has continuously and aggressively fake-hunted scum even when near his own lynch.
I think all of these things are strong town tells in his favor and outweigh him getting pissed at kpaca and string claiming. Convince me that the case on him is not super terrible. You want me to help you lynch scum, right? Help me, help you.
@kpaca: feel free to respond to any of this, too.
Continuing to press this makes no sense, and it didn't make much sense to begin with.
I never said I see too many town everywhere. You have made this fact up, and the fact that you have such a colored opinion on my posts regardless of content is disturbing. You have taken a post explaining who I had my eye on and why I am not pressing for their lynch and filtered it to defending everyone in the game.
Glad to see the mountains out of molehills persists past myself.
<nods>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Continue to press this?
I stated an opinion. You asked me to clarify. I clarified. And now you claimed it was because I was continuing to press this?
And I never said you were defending everyone in the game.
You are in my scum list and when you claimed that you have no idea where to pursue next because the few people you deemed as scums didn't seem like scums anymore, I proposed the possibility that you lack direction because you know they are town.
It was a jab.
A jab to see how you responded and you exploded because of it?
It's a valid tell because it's true.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Wow.
Just to be clear, you think that Ritalin included only one 4000 year old dude in the game and made him scum without giving him any fake claims. To me, this is the same as you saying "the mod is terrible, lynch this guy now".
This thinking is so completely foreign to me, I have no idea what to make of it.
Like, you think a dude is scum and will say so, but you don't CARE if he gets lynched? I mean, you could be the best analyst ever, but if you don't try to convince people you are right, what is the point?
Because all I'm seeing right now is a lazy dude who doesn't want to back up his case that I'm tearing apart.
Why are you selectively avoiding topics of discussion?
I am going to give you one post to respond to questions asked of you and to show a decent level of commitment and participation to this game or I am going to see you dead.
OK. This is not my reasoning.
Yes, the confusion is what I'm going off of.
I hadn't considered your alternate options. My initial impression is that they are not as applicable but I'll need to go back and analyze his reactions again to see if I'm wrong.
As for newb town vs. newb scum I find it harder to actually parse newb bungling vs. scum mindset. They will both make a lot of generic scumtells and have confusing motives.
Do you take mt a into account? This is sort of the same thing - taking into account an individuals circumstances and not just assuming that each player is the same.
Oh wow. That was dumb. Makes more sense now, thanks.
Even if Seppel is scum , he's probably not lying about the role.
I'm not sure where the Jack the Ripper is coming from. Very arbitrary.
Oh wow, you managed to say what I was trying to say so succinctly.
All right now I'm gone. I'll read the billion pages that appear during my absence when I come back.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
191x (1) - TMM
190x (2) - Calvin, MonkeyPlayingMTG, AlphaInsidious
189x (6) - Chubbz, Cyouni, Asian, Seratonin, SO, Aquajolt
188x (3) - Bat, dC, Promatim
187x (1) - Dagger
186x (1) - Fenris
185x (2) - TL, EP
Non-Canon? (1) - Talore
2800 BC (1) - Seppel
Tight-lipped (1) - kpaca
Left to claim: nacho wizard, burboy
This. (unless Promatim actually starts playing more (pot kettle black i know xp)
Speculation: unless the last 2 soft Claims are Way out there (as far as compared to the others), I'm re-thinking about seppel's pseudo immortal role
@Nacho/Burboy(who i haven't seen post lately? burboy i mean): Birthdate Soft Claims please? we're waiting on you two
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm