Birth Decade Soft-Claim
Go ahead and discuss AI extensively. We could do both today.
Nah, I see no good reason to do that if we're lynching Seppel.
Also of not is that I am becoming more and more offput by Dagger. I can't imagine with the entire mafia clan in collaboration with him he is still against this Seppel lynch in such a way. I cannot see a player of Dagger's caliber (he's definitely top tier of players in this game) needing bateleur to explain all these things to him. (bat's been doing a good job of being town even with his pr),
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
EBWOP: Also information about his role is only being leaked out the more he is questioned. First he had the item and could pass it, then the item had to be passed at night, which was totally written in his role pm, right on his card!, oh wait the item has it's own separate card.
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
Also of note
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
EBWOP: Also information about his role is only being leaked out the more he is questioned. First he had the item and could pass it, then the item had to be passed at night, which was totally written in his role pm, right on his card!, oh wait the item has it's own separate card.
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
Also of note
And the end of this post got eaten by firefox.
Also of note is that he posted his answer to EP, then two hours later was like "oh man I should say it's two separate cards". Why did this take him two hours? Why didn't he clarify it in the first place?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Considering the only thing Seppel can most likely lie about is his alignment/role, and not the book which can be transferred around, yes, it gave me pause. As I said to Bat, why would he lie about the book?
Simple. Let's take a look at what happened after he claimed. Many people looked at the book and said, "oh, hey, that's something that has little use for scum, so he's got to be town". See where this is going? The simplest reason for him lying about the book is for him to be declared town. That's pretty much the reason for any scum falseclaim.
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression he had at no point agreed to pass it to a player of our choosing. He has been consistently resisting this. To say nothing of the fact that shifting the whole business to night undermines much of the power of the plan, because it forces us to not lynch him if we wish to apply this test."
Also, the whole night business issue is because you choose not to believe the book can only be passed at night. You claimed it's because you choose not to trust Seppel. But then you claimed because you don't trust that the book can only be passed at night, Seppel is suspicious for trying to fake-claim the properties of the book. It's sort of like building a castle in the air with the nothing but the castle in the air itself as a foundation.
What I meant by that is that Seppel keeps changing the book. Like first "It's on the card." and then "Oh wait, it's a different card."
That combined with other changes about the book that were not originally clarified make me think that he is lying.
So you believe the book is the same card or different card? If it's the same card, then Seppel cannot pass it to another player? If it's another card, then it would be abundantly clear such is the case when it is passed to another player?
Nah, I see no good reason to do that if we're lynching Seppel.
Then by all means, try your hardest to convince the town to lynch Seppel instead.
I could probably be persuaded to his lynch, after we receive confirmation that his 4000-year old flavor is so far out of the flavor of the setup as compared with the rest.
But you were adamant that you won't participate in any sort of a mass soft claim, so I guess the persuasion could be done the old-fashioned way, via arguments and rationales and motivations.
Also of not is that I am becoming more and more offput by Dagger. I can't imagine with the entire mafia clan in collaboration with him he is still against this Seppel lynch in such a way. I cannot see a player of Dagger's caliber (he's definitely top tier of players in this game) needing bateleur to explain all these things to him. (bat's been doing a good job of being town even with his pr),
I'll break this down for you. Being a mafia clan, we have among our members some of the most stubborn outspoken mafia players there are. And one in particular kept insisting that Bat was using craplogic and his case on Seppel was full of holes, and that I should raise awareness about Bat and not let the town be blinded by his reputation and experience.
To that effect, I've tried to pry and pick apart and run through each rationale and reasoning of Bat bit by tiny bit, trying to determine whether such really is the case with him. Among all the players currently going after Seppel, Bat is the only one that is persistently after Seppel for his flavor alone. Because if Bat was so certain with regards to Seppel based on such a reasoning, was it genuine, a bussing or was he trying to force a mislynch? That is what I'm trying to determine. And that has nothing to do with whether Seppel is today's lynch or not.
EBWOP: Also information about his role is only being leaked out the more he is questioned. First he had the item and could pass it, then the item had to be passed at night, which was totally written in his role pm, right on his card!, oh wait the item has it's own separate card.
@Seppel: Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning?
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
@Seppel: Why did it take you two hours to figure out you needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped your mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
~~~~~
Simple. Let's take a look at what happened after he claimed. Many people looked at the book and said, "oh, hey, that's something that has little use for scum, so he's got to be town". See where this is going? The simplest reason for him lying about the book is for him to be declared town. That's pretty much the reason for any scum falseclaim.
But the Book can be transferred and thus if he lied about it, he would have been found out the moment it happened? You're suggesting Seppel is trying to buy himself a single night?
Conversely, by the same reasoning, if the book is as he said it is, you would believe Seppel is town?
But then you claimed because you don't trust that the book can only be passed at night, Seppel is suspicious for trying to fake-claim the properties of the book.
<shakes head>
"Not so. What is suspicious is that he said he could pass it at night ONLY AFTER we insisted he pass it during the day."
Quote from Dagger »
"The issue though is that the possibility of such an item doesn't immediately condemn Seppel."
In this respect I agree.
Quote from Dagger »
So you believe the book is the same card or different card?
"The_Muffin_Man is just being silly. Seppel never said it was his role card."
Quote from Dagger »
"for his flavor alone
<facepalms>
"It's NOT about flavour. It's statistics. You can replace the flavour element with anything you like. That his card has a pink border. That it has exactly three letter Qs on it. That every post he makes is at precisely 12 minutes past the hour. What matters is that both he and his item are the ODD ONES OUT."
"I'm not against cross-questioning, because in at least one case you've helped me clarify my own understanding. But please stop rewording my argument. If you absolutely 100% don't get it then at least say so rather than pretending I'm arguing what I'm not."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
"The important factor is not where my vote comes, but the fact that Seppel became the first player to be drawn into claim range."
<pulls out a notepad and writes a list>
1) Seppel reaches claim range.
2) Seppel claims a 4000 year old character.
3) I suggest Seppel passes his item to verify his item claim.
4) Seppel claims he cannot pass items during the day.
"Point 2 does not apply, I am guessing, to most of the Town."
Well the thing is that while my role seems to fit into the timeline of everyone elses roles, it's actually a scummy character (given that usually towns are the "good guys" and mafia the "bad guys" and my character is definitely a "bad guy").
I imagine the rest of the town does not have scummy seeming characters so that would also make me different. But I know that I am still town.
And so I have to wonder if rianlnn didn't purposely throw in more than one oddity to prevent modgaming.
"You must tighten up your formal logic here."
"I can see how it would be role related if his role is indeed a Town role exactly as stated."
"But the coincidence is exactly this! That he oh-so-conveniently happens not to be able to cooperate with my proposed plan (and recall that it took him two posts to mention this - he simply refused in his first post). If he is scum, no coincidence is required."
I guess I'm ready to post a list of who I think is what, with minor explanations.
Scum:
Chubbz - Lurking. He gets very defensive when accused an makes up excuses, like "I lurk when I'm town" that nobody can really prove. Pretty scummy behavior overall. He doesn't really say much and tries to keep his name out of being tossed around.
Promatim - It's pretty obvious, actually. Again, he lurks. A lot. When he posts he says a lot but doesn't really say anything. He reacts poorly to suspicion and never combats arguments, he just ignores them as not to dig a hole, or he just doesn't know how to defend himself.
seratonin - Posts very little, the few posts are kind of a tip off. Not really sure, I'm just leaning this way.
AsianInvasion - Hesitancy to explore insanity, which is perfectly understandable. However, repeatedly changing sides of arguments is NOT.
TeknoLink - L-5? Lawl. Obvious. Accusing me? You basically jumped on the mini bandwagon for me started by kpaca and Burboy. Hasty to get someone else lynched, eh?
Emo Pinata - You confidently voted for me. However, then, you asked what mafia I'd played in. You set it up so that you could change your vote without garnering *much* suspicion. This way you could bandwagon Seppel and get away without anyone considering you.
desCoures - Not *really* sure, however I am fairly confident that you are, in fact, scum.
Krackshott - Few posts, giving me that vibe. Town:
kpaca - Acts like it.
burboy - See above.
Seppel - Claim has me confident that the outburst was just anger at kpaca's baseless prying.
Nacho Wizard - Town.
Talore - Not positive, but I'm leaning town here. Your list of excuses seems valid.
Fenris - Not a lot of posts to go on, but you seem like you're town.
Dagger - Obvious.
Calvin - Obvious. Not Sure:
Bateleur - The PR is driving me crazy. I think it's done intentionally to prevent people guessing his alignment, however it's entirely possible that he's just neutral.
If you're not on here, I'm probably leaning town and just forgot you.
Heh. Lots of people on the scumlist and most based on gut. More proof that TMM is town.
A) I have no problem with a birthdate soft claim.
B) I can see how that would be iffy.
Warning, massive wall of text/analyzation of Seppel's excerpt/flavor
According to the internet, Fu Xi was two things that I consider of importance: He was considered a hero by his people. He had many great accomplishments and helped better early Chinese society and civilization. He introduced tools and such to make living easier for his people, as well as teaching them skills.
This is the part I find interesting; He was told to have been told of these tri-grams from a supernatural being. Specifically on the back of a turtle/dragon-horse. This may suggest that his character that his character in fact has a very low sanity.
After analyzing the poem, I do believe that he, is in fact town. Let me pick it apart and give my interpretation.
Okay, so to me, this states that he is both above the chaos and below the chaos, in some area I would assume is neutral ground. Assume a Heaven-Earth-Hell type deal, where each of those is K'an and Chen respectively.
This could go either way. The mentioning of appointing helpers could point to Seppel being a scum leader who has cronies, or a pro-town person with others working with him. It mentions that a difficult start brings rewards, and that nothing should be undertaken. Maybe this hints at it being a bad idea to screw with sanity?
More straightforward, not sure what it has to do in relation to this game. Difficult beginning, maybe the "Superior Man" is meant to be Fu Xi in this specific case. The confusion is either sanity or the hecticness of day one.
This is where it gets weird.
The beginning is full of people hindering success and hesitation on all accounts. Again with the perseverance and helpers. The first line, however, utterly confuses me and I have no idea what to make of it.
I just don't even know.
He who tries to hunt scum without experience gets lost and caught up...?
Don't know.
To me, it seems the different lines are different fortunes that a man has, and that this is some kind of key to what certain lines are. This appears more to me that it is just advice for people playing the game that happens to be relevant to his role. Nothing important here.
The other poem stuff kind of makes me think town.
Further analyzing and googling of the hexagrams brings me to this:
This is about Kan, the Abysmal.
More:
THIS IS THE REALLY INTERESTING PART IF YOU IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE IN MY POST, AT LEAST READ THIS.
On Chen, The Arousing.
Okay. So from all of this research on the flavor, I believe that Seppel is town. However, I am confident that he knows something we all don't, and I would like to know.
Oh man, I hate to break it to you but that was a massive waste of your time.
I got that impression. If I was mistaken, no harm done.
I don't see how but OK.
It's still semantics now that my intent has been clarified. I never meant to imply that Cyouni questioning me is not pro-town. What he's doing now, however, looks scummy to me.
Fair enough.
You tell me. (Actually, don't bother. I already know)
The problem is that the obvious conclusion that follows from the juxtapositioning is too obvious and not a mistake that you would make as town. You're not that dumb.
Along with the other over-the-top obvious hints, I'm becoming very confused at what you're playing at, whether town or scum.
I'm sorry but no. Everyone needs to vote Seppel and we will forcifully take the book from him. It's obvious he is just making things up to get people to leave him alone at this point. He is scum, his game is over.
So you believe that Seppel has that item and still want to lynch him?
I can see where Bat is coming from (assuming that the item does not in fact exist) but if you believe that he has the item that makes him very likely to be town.
EBWOP: Also information about his role is only being leaked out the more he is questioned. First he had the item and could pass it, then the item had to be passed at night, which was totally written in his role pm, right on his card!, oh wait the item has it's own separate card.
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
I could probably be persuaded to his lynch, after we receive confirmation that his 4000-year old flavor is so far out of the flavor of the setup as compared with the rest.
See my comment above to Bat.
I'll break this down for you. Being a mafia clan, we have among our members some of the most stubborn outspoken mafia players there are. And one in particular kept insisting that Bat was using craplogic and his case on Seppel was full of holes, and that I should raise awareness about Bat and not let the town be blinded by his reputation and experience.
So you believe the book is the same card or different card? If it's the same card, then Seppel cannot pass it to another player? If it's another card, then it would be abundantly clear such is the case when it is passed to another player?
I'm not sure what to believe, but Seppel can't seem to make up his mind on what it does/is.
@Calvin: Yeah, it was, but it was actually both interesting and a fun use of time ^^
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
Because my wife was yelling at me to go to bed as I clicked reply so all I could type was "Yes."
Then I sneaked out of bed two hours later because I wasn't sleepy at all and made sure to clarify.
You may now add "my wife" to the series of coincidences.
@Seppel: Why did it take you two hours to figure out you needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped your mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
See above.
Tired after 4th of July, will do some reading on Monday.
STILL waiting on Promatim and KrackShott.
@Rian: Barring the holiday, has enough time gone by for them to get prodded?
"Unfortunately confirmed only for me, not for everyone. The reason has to do with a surprising feature of the setup which will be apparent only to the Town. Or possibly to a subset of the Town.
Fenris was the first to publish this information (unintentionally?) which clears him because a scum would not have been able to do so."
Quote from Calvin »
And so I have to wonder if rianlnn didn't purposely throw in more than one oddity to prevent modgaming.
"Is rianalnn the designer? I thought it was Ged's game for some reason. But you're right - this is good design and highly plausible."
"However, it's not that we checked everyone's ages and decided to lynch the old guy, which would be questionable. It's that by majority selection a suspect was made to claim and that suspect turned out to be an old guy."
Quote from Calvin »
Could you walk me through the posts involved here? Because I think you're wrong about this.
<nods>
"My proposal was made in #518. Note use of the word 'immediately'. Seppel's refuses the plan in #536, saying that he will pass it to someone he trusts and who he suspects 'will have some use for it tonight'. This implies they will have the opportunity to use it tonight."
"But then around quarter of an hour later he replies again (next post, #537). This time, he claims he can only pass it as a night action. It is the first mention he has made of this."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Discussing public information is pro-town. Testing an unknown mechanic, with unknown results (but which are implied to be negative), on a random person, with no other information? Not.
If kpaca were a dayvig and shot someone for the hell of it I would not be pleased. However, he does not have unilateral control over the sanity mechanic so far as we know, and as a result his suggestion to make a volunteer lose his sanity was nothing but discussion. All of your arguments presuppose guilt on my behalf and work backwards to prove this conclusion. You fail to see what I'm thinking and how my perspective differs from yours.
Twisting your meanings? "Conveniently" wording my arguments? You must mean your ad hom attack which used some pretty clear language, which you then attempted to dodge responsibility for.
Quotes would help, unless you're referring to the part where I said that you hadn't done anything pro-town, because that isn't even ad hom.
Simple.
You cannot explain what changed between burboy's original case of you (when you decided it would be "too much of a trial" and would look "too concerned with your appearance") and when you responded to it (after he said he didn't see how it would be too much of a trial, and kpaca agreed) without making something up. The first time, it was that "people were starting to make a big deal out of it". Two people, each with a single post that states "I don't see how it would be such a trial to answer". The second time, it was that "burboy was complaining two or three times that you were ignoring him". A simple check states that he only asked once.
Yeah, OK? Let the jury make up their mind about whether the following sequence of posts makes me more likely to be scum.
He's posting no information while trying to dress it up as actual information. The line that especially stands out is where he says I want to vote for that guy because that's an OMGUS but it's really a no tell. It's a completely neutral position that gives him plenty of leeway and does absolutely nothing else.
I totally agree with you but the problem is I think AI would just make those sort of no information posts as town, so he'd probably have to make some more before i'd vote for him.
Having never played with AI or most people at this site for that matter I'm inclined to play as though he were anyone else and see where that takes me.
Well then be prepared to possibly get stuck pummeling AI's arguments by yourself while no wagon forms around you. I mean, I've no doubt you can do that, but I'd hate for you to be wasting your time when it could be used elsewhere.
You are actively telling me not to pursue someone I think is scum because nothing will come of it and it's a waste of time and surely I have better things to do.
This must be a mafia first for me, no one has ever told not to go after scum because it's a waste of my time.
I'm telling you that to assume AI is scum off of those two posts is dumb and that you are likely going to waste your time because knowing AI his responses probably won't sway you.
I used to shoot down bad cases against me as a n00b but nowadays I just ignore them because most of the time everyone else also sees that they're bad. (Meta helps in this regard.)
Your case is bad because you assume me making posts that don't display a strong conviction by attacking or defending other players is a scum tell. Hardly.
Also you seem to have a problem with the way I stated that I'm leaning town on kpaca. Players who have not read the "I lurk as scum" statement made by kpaca in its three or four instances, with context, and have not witnessed kpaca's scum play are unlikely to understand why I hold significance to it.
Responding to you based simply on the first two posts you made voting me would only serve to make me look like I'm overly concerned with my appearance. Now that you've called me out on it, I may as well say, "Hello. This is why your case is bad. Good day, sir."
You're not providing actual reasoning - you're making stuff up and hoping I'll go away. That is definitely not town. Especially coming from you.
It would be nice if you went away, but that's more to do with your lack of a case than me having made what you think are scummy plays. Also, I like how you think you're some kind of AsianInvasion meta expert. Get back to me once you find what you think you're looking for.
The problem here is that you thought that one person's arguments were unsubstantiated, and responding to them would make you look "too concerned with your appearance", while the same arguments, with one other person agreeing with them, becomes important enough that you need to respond to it immediately.
Considering that the first of those players was someone who'd never played a MTGS game before and had no meta experience and little name recognition, I wasn't worried that he got a bad vibe from me because his case wasn't great. When the second of those players, someone who'd played with me on several occasions and is well-respected in the community wants me to respond, then I do so. Is that so hard to grasp?
Oh, and the fact that you can't explain what changed between the first time and the second to make the case so important.
Didn't I already say that kpaca echoing the sentiment that I should explain myself was enough in addition to his drawn-out conversation with burboy on the topic? If not, consider it said.
Oh, other than the fact that you stated that I said that you were misrepping me, when it's plain to see that I didn't. (By the way, now you're misrepping me.)
Oh, nice ad hom, by the way.
Every time you try to use an argument based on semantics to argue that I'm scum, it only serves to make you look more desperate.
Also, it's not ad hom. You were reaching...like something with Reach.
The problem is that the obvious conclusion that follows from the juxtapositioning is too obvious and not a mistake that you would make as town. You're not that dumb.
Along with the other over-the-top obvious hints, I'm becoming very confused at what you're playing at, whether town or scum.
If I were dropping hints I'd appreciate if you wouldn't call them out. I'll let the scum WIFOM themselves into deciding whether I'm worth dealing with.
"My proposal was made in #518. Note use of the word 'immediately'. Seppel's refuses the plan in #536, saying that he will pass it to someone he trusts and who he suspects 'will have some use for it tonight'. This implies they will have the opportunity to use it tonight."
"But then around quarter of an hour later he replies again (next post, #537). This time, he claims he can only pass it as a night action. It is the first mention he has made of this."
OBJECTION!
My sentence in #536: "I will (likely) be passing it to someone I trust and suspect will have some use for it tonight."
That sentence sucks but what I was trying to say is that:
* I'll be passing it tonight.
* It will likely go to someone I trust and I suspect will have some use for it.
It was mainly a hint to AsianInvasion. But it's clear now that I have to throw bricks at his head to get him to take hints.
Oh hey, and I even back this up in the same post: "any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
#537 was me scrolling up after seeing E_P's post that appeared while I was trying to post (MTGS was slow), so I clarified.
Oh hey, and I even back this up in the same post: "any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
<shakes head>
"That sentence (prior to your bolding) could equally well mean that tapping to pass it on would cause them to waste a night, which is true whether or not the tap itself needs to happen at night."
Quote from Seppel »
"#537 was me scrolling up after seeing E_P's post that appeared while I was trying to post (MTGS was slow), so I clarified"
"Maybe it was prompted by Emo Pinata's post - Salvation was indeed slow - but it wasn't a clarification since his trick still works even if it has to be done at night."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Also, first person to call dibs gets to be targeted with a secret ability tonight. If you don't call dibs in your next post, you are ineligible for calling dibs.
The above is post #199, where Seppel has already hinted at a secret ability that he will target another person tonight. This is way way before #518 as you offered.
"My proposal was made in #518. Note use of the word 'immediately'. Seppel's refuses the plan in #536, saying that he will pass it to someone he trusts and who he suspects 'will have some use for it tonight'. This implies they will have the opportunity to use it tonight."
"But then around quarter of an hour later he replies again (next post, #537). This time, he claims he can only pass it as a night action. It is the first mention he has made of this."
I will (likely) be passing it to someone I trust and suspect will have some use for it tonight.
Logically speaking, "tonight" at the end of the sentence should be referred to the beginning of the sentence, i.e. "I will be passing it tonight to someone I trust etc.".
I don't buy the alternative interpretation which you offered, where Seppel said one thing and then immediately after said the opposite.
I remember when I did this as noob town, revealing part of my role one step at a time. I got lynched for it. However, Seppel is not noob, and certainly not stupid. Taking that into account I'm going to Vote: Seppel.
@Everyone: TL used the exact same argument against Vezok in Basic #21:
You lied about your ability. I got lynched for that in Clan Mafia, for good reason. I think you're scum, trying to do a last ditch effort to not get lynched.
vezokpiraka, The Players, Vanilla Townie (lynched Day 1). TeknoLink, Eight Miles High, Mafia Goon (lynched Day 2).
1. If he did it as town, he knew perfectly well it was a terrible scum tell.
2. The argument "experienced players that don't play like textbook town must be scum" is horrible.
3. As a scum, TL used the exact same argument.
The above is post #199, where Seppel has already hinted at a secret ability that he will target another person tonight. This is way way before #518 as you offered.
<nods>
"Certainly true, but that surely doesn't count as pre-declaring his alleged item passing restriction?"
"We already know with a very high degree of confidence that Seppel has an item of some kind because he knew items were cards."
"So all this tells us is that the item he really has is usable (note usable, not passable) only at night. This is not surprising."
"(Technically it's also possible that he's referring to some other ability he has, but that seems less likely.)"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I'm for the soft claim. And now to play a little catch up, but from what i'm seeing Seppel is still not painting himself in a stronger light. All this talk about passing the book and over appearance of unwillingness just seems to be to strong for my taste. That and that book still worries me. I just feel that such a thing must come with a cost. Its limited use is also odd at least to me as it should be a great town item but wouldn't you want to put more notes in it before the end of day especially if a lynch occured and you were its target. You would never get the books effect. I'd like to have that books effect put up word for word.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Originally commissioned through High~Light Studios
1) It's clear I'm not going to get through to Bateleur, and he's shown that he doesn't have a good use for the Book, so I'm going to move on and get to a read later.
2) @Some One: What question?
3) No time to post right now, will be qaround later.
And you'd think I didn't learn from my last encounter with the lynching pole? Honestly now. But I'm just pissed that last clan mafia game that got me lynched and people like Seppel can do it because 'they're seppel' and because I used that argument as scum.
Also, everyone disliked Vezok there. :| I still don't like him.
I don't think I would do a very good job at telling this guy's town and scum games apart because I tend to have a hard time separating n00b town from n00b scum. I'll probably just go with the majority if this wagon develops.
"From me? No. I have no outstanding requests of anyone. Unless you count wanting all our lurkers to post more."
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
That post was just bad, and the attempted helping of pure WIFOM was worse. This is worth pursuing.
@Seppel and Calvin
Just how strong is that reasoning re:The Muffin Man again when you consider that there is a 'Vanilla Townie' dead in the pregame?
More tomorrow. Also, my character was born in the 1880s.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
barring the rest of the softclaims, what exactly does everyone think if seppel's the only one to have an odd time range? (so far none have been before 1850?)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig with tips From PurpleD [CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian Not Making sigs atm
Birthdate Claim: 1910s.
Sorry I've been kind of out of it lately, it's just moving fast. I'll catch up.
Plus, this thread seems more coherent without my dumb posts. More intelligent ones coming up soon!
EBWOP: Also information about his role is only being leaked out the more he is questioned. First he had the item and could pass it, then the item had to be passed at night, which was totally written in his role pm, right on his card!, oh wait the item has it's own separate card.
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
Also of note
Problem is that the segmented-claim-thing is what he always does in every game he's in. I don't see it as a knock against him. I want to see how the claim pans out so we can see if he buried himself with a false claim since I don't see a discrepancy that great in the flavor of the setup.
Since it wasn't clear in my past post my character was born in 187X as well, and died in the 19XX era. I just wikied my character before claiming he wasn't alive in the 1900s.
And you'd think I didn't learn from my last encounter with the lynching pole? Honestly now. But I'm just pissed that last clan mafia game that got me lynched and people like Seppel can do it because 'they're seppel' and because I used that argument as scum.
Also, everyone disliked Vezok there. :| I still don't like him.
barring the rest of the softclaims, what exactly does everyone think if seppel's the only one to have an odd time range? (so far none have been before 1850?)
"Further question for you, Emo_Pinata: Does your character resemble a large, green hippo with a squid nailed to his face? Just asking."
FoS: Emo_Pinata
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I must have typed wrong the first time, it's definitely 185X according to the wiki.
Also, Seppel claimed a separate item card that had rules on it. I wouldn't beleive it to be listed in his role. I'm not sure where the backpedal would be there.
barring the rest of the softclaims, what exactly does everyone think if seppel's the only one to have an odd time range? (so far none have been before 1850?)
"Unfortunately confirmed only for me, not for everyone. The reason has to do with a surprising feature of the setup which will be apparent only to the Town. Or possibly to a subset of the Town.
Fenris was the first to publish this information (unintentionally?) which clears him because a scum would not have been able to do so."
OK. I'm sure you will elaborate at a a later date.
"Is rianalnn the designer? I thought it was Ged's game for some reason. But you're right - this is good design and highly plausible."
"However, it's not that we checked everyone's ages and decided to lynch the old guy, which would be questionable. It's that by majority selection a suspect was made to claim and that suspect turned out to be an old guy."
I think Ged and some others helped out.
I see what you're saying. Still not sure how much weight I would lend it.
<nods>
"My proposal was made in #518. Note use of the word 'immediately'. Seppel's refuses the plan in #536, saying that he will pass it to someone he trusts and who he suspects 'will have some use for it tonight'. This implies they will have the opportunity to use it tonight."
"But then around quarter of an hour later he replies again (next post, #537). This time, he claims he can only pass it as a night action. It is the first mention he has made of this."
Seppel and Dagger already beat me to the punch on this, both in regards to this post and earlier Seppel posts which tell us of night actions.
At this point you're argument that Seppel waited to clarify that he could not pass at day hinges on your own particular way of reading his post, which I don't really understand.
If I were dropping hints I'd appreciate if you wouldn't call them out. I'll let the scum WIFOM themselves into deciding whether I'm worth dealing with.
"That sentence (prior to your bolding) could equally well mean that tapping to pass it on would cause them to waste a night, which is true whether or not the tap itself needs to happen at night."
Can you clarify this please? Don't really understand your way of reading it.
@Everyone: TL used the exact same argument against Vezok in Basic #21:
And the respective alignments:
1. If he did it as town, he knew perfectly well it was a terrible scum tell.
2. The argument "experienced players that don't play like textbook town must be scum" is horrible.
3. As a scum, TL used the exact same argument.
~~~~~
Should I put Nay for you for the soft claim? Since you seem to avoid touching the issue with a 20-foot pole?
1 and 2 don't concern me much since I think town Tekno would probably do it anyway but 3 is more suspicious, especially given that it seems to be a carbon copy of the one here.
I don't think I would do a very good job at telling this guy's town and scum games apart because I tend to have a hard time separating n00b town from n00b scum. I'll probably just go with the majority if this wagon develops.
I agree. Although, I personally lean to not lynching them if there's nothing truly condemning. I probably give them a bi too much leeway but I'm very paranoid of lynching newb town.
barring the rest of the softclaims, what exactly does everyone think if seppel's the only one to have an odd time range? (so far none have been before 1850?)
I personally don't think it means that much. At the end of the day, this is a flavor concern. Yes, there has been a case on him as well but to me it comes down to if the case is enough to lynch him without bringing this flavor into it. And to me it isn't.
I'm going to put AI vs. Cyouni into the "yet another tl;dr battle that I can't be bothered with" category.
So this just happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMrPjl-927Q
Can we get back to the Seppel lynch now?
His response of "oh the book is an item that's what I meant" is ridiculous. I mean cmon he can't get his story straight.
Nah, I see no good reason to do that if we're lynching Seppel.
Also of not is that I am becoming more and more offput by Dagger. I can't imagine with the entire mafia clan in collaboration with him he is still against this Seppel lynch in such a way. I cannot see a player of Dagger's caliber (he's definitely top tier of players in this game) needing bateleur to explain all these things to him. (bat's been doing a good job of being town even with his pr),
Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning? Plus, he answered your question, and then like two hours decided "oh wait I should clarify". Why did it take him two hours to figure out he needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped his mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
Also of note
And the end of this post got eaten by firefox.
Also of note is that he posted his answer to EP, then two hours later was like "oh man I should say it's two separate cards". Why did this take him two hours? Why didn't he clarify it in the first place?
Oh, and I'm pretty sure the answer is no. I'm pretty sure he's scum.
Simple. Let's take a look at what happened after he claimed. Many people looked at the book and said, "oh, hey, that's something that has little use for scum, so he's got to be town". See where this is going? The simplest reason for him lying about the book is for him to be declared town. That's pretty much the reason for any scum falseclaim.
Yay (10) - AsianInvasion, Dagger, seratonin, The_Muffin_Man, bateleur, Emo_pinata, Cyouni, SGT_Chubbz, Seppel, TeknoLink
Nay (1) - kpaca
He did. Here:
Also, the whole night business issue is because you choose not to believe the book can only be passed at night. You claimed it's because you choose not to trust Seppel. But then you claimed because you don't trust that the book can only be passed at night, Seppel is suspicious for trying to fake-claim the properties of the book. It's sort of like building a castle in the air with the nothing but the castle in the air itself as a foundation.
I can think plenty of items. The issue though is that the possibility of such an item doesn't immediately condemn Seppel.
So you believe the book is the same card or different card? If it's the same card, then Seppel cannot pass it to another player? If it's another card, then it would be abundantly clear such is the case when it is passed to another player?
Then by all means, try your hardest to convince the town to lynch Seppel instead.
I could probably be persuaded to his lynch, after we receive confirmation that his 4000-year old flavor is so far out of the flavor of the setup as compared with the rest.
But you were adamant that you won't participate in any sort of a mass soft claim, so I guess the persuasion could be done the old-fashioned way, via arguments and rationales and motivations.
I'll break this down for you. Being a mafia clan, we have among our members some of the most stubborn outspoken mafia players there are. And one in particular kept insisting that Bat was using craplogic and his case on Seppel was full of holes, and that I should raise awareness about Bat and not let the town be blinded by his reputation and experience.
To that effect, I've tried to pry and pick apart and run through each rationale and reasoning of Bat bit by tiny bit, trying to determine whether such really is the case with him. Among all the players currently going after Seppel, Bat is the only one that is persistently after Seppel for his flavor alone. Because if Bat was so certain with regards to Seppel based on such a reasoning, was it genuine, a bussing or was he trying to force a mislynch? That is what I'm trying to determine. And that has nothing to do with whether Seppel is today's lynch or not.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
@Seppel: Why couldn't it all be clarified in the beginning?
@Seppel: Why did it take you two hours to figure out you needed to clarify this? Why would it have slipped your mind that it's two separate cards in the first place?
~~~~~
Roger that.
But the Book can be transferred and thus if he lied about it, he would have been found out the moment it happened? You're suggesting Seppel is trying to buy himself a single night?
Conversely, by the same reasoning, if the book is as he said it is, you would believe Seppel is town?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
<shakes head>
In this respect I agree.
<facepalms>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I didn't actually post my comment on this in my last post so here we go again.
Why do you have him as confirmed town? I know that you said that over here:
But I don't see the reasoning.
Well the thing is that while my role seems to fit into the timeline of everyone elses roles, it's actually a scummy character (given that usually towns are the "good guys" and mafia the "bad guys" and my character is definitely a "bad guy").
I imagine the rest of the town does not have scummy seeming characters so that would also make me different. But I know that I am still town.
And so I have to wonder if rianlnn didn't purposely throw in more than one oddity to prevent modgaming.
OK.
Heh. Lots of people on the scumlist and most based on gut. More proof that TMM is town.
Oh man, I hate to break it to you but that was a massive waste of your time.
Your mom wants excitement.
I don't see how but OK.
Fair enough.
The problem is that the obvious conclusion that follows from the juxtapositioning is too obvious and not a mistake that you would make as town. You're not that dumb.
Along with the other over-the-top obvious hints, I'm becoming very confused at what you're playing at, whether town or scum.
So you believe that Seppel has that item and still want to lynch him?
I can see where Bat is coming from (assuming that the item does not in fact exist) but if you believe that he has the item that makes him very likely to be town.
Didn't see this TMM post before but 100% agreed.
I remember the good ole days of "I'M TOWN!!!"
Yay.
I'd like to hear the answer to this.
See my comment above to Bat.
*waves to ZDS*
COuld you walk me through the posts involved here? Because I think you're wrong about this.
Glanced over EP's posts. Nothing really stands out either way except for his jump on TMM/jump off TMM which still bugs me.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win
I'm not sure what to believe, but Seppel can't seem to make up his mind on what it does/is.
@Calvin: Yeah, it was, but it was actually both interesting and a fun use of time ^^
I lold
Quotes in blog.
Because my wife was yelling at me to go to bed as I clicked reply so all I could type was "Yes."
Then I sneaked out of bed two hours later because I wasn't sleepy at all and made sure to clarify.
You may now add "my wife" to the series of coincidences.
I thought it was.
See above.
Tired after 4th of July, will do some reading on Monday.
STILL waiting on Promatim and KrackShott.
@Rian: Barring the holiday, has enough time gone by for them to get prodded?
<nods>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
If kpaca were a dayvig and shot someone for the hell of it I would not be pleased. However, he does not have unilateral control over the sanity mechanic so far as we know, and as a result his suggestion to make a volunteer lose his sanity was nothing but discussion. All of your arguments presuppose guilt on my behalf and work backwards to prove this conclusion. You fail to see what I'm thinking and how my perspective differs from yours.
Quotes would help, unless you're referring to the part where I said that you hadn't done anything pro-town, because that isn't even ad hom.
Yeah, OK? Let the jury make up their mind about whether the following sequence of posts makes me more likely to be scum.
It would be nice if you went away, but that's more to do with your lack of a case than me having made what you think are scummy plays. Also, I like how you think you're some kind of AsianInvasion meta expert. Get back to me once you find what you think you're looking for.
Considering that the first of those players was someone who'd never played a MTGS game before and had no meta experience and little name recognition, I wasn't worried that he got a bad vibe from me because his case wasn't great. When the second of those players, someone who'd played with me on several occasions and is well-respected in the community wants me to respond, then I do so. Is that so hard to grasp?
Didn't I already say that kpaca echoing the sentiment that I should explain myself was enough in addition to his drawn-out conversation with burboy on the topic? If not, consider it said.
Every time you try to use an argument based on semantics to argue that I'm scum, it only serves to make you look more desperate.
Also, it's not ad hom. You were reaching...like something with Reach.
Presupposition of guilt noted. You can't find it if you're not looking (or faking it).
If I were dropping hints I'd appreciate if you wouldn't call them out. I'll let the scum WIFOM themselves into deciding whether I'm worth dealing with.
OBJECTION!
My sentence in #536: "I will (likely) be passing it to someone I trust and suspect will have some use for it tonight."
That sentence sucks but what I was trying to say is that:
* I'll be passing it tonight.
* It will likely go to someone I trust and I suspect will have some use for it.
It was mainly a hint to AsianInvasion. But it's clear now that I have to throw bricks at his head to get him to take hints.
Oh hey, and I even back this up in the same post: "any power role that requires tapping to activate a skill will have to waste one night tapping to pass it."
#537 was me scrolling up after seeing E_P's post that appeared while I was trying to post (MTGS was slow), so I clarified.
<shakes head>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
* ZDS waves to Calvin .
Birth Decade Soft-Claim
Yay (11) - AsianInvasion, Dagger, seratonin, The_Muffin_Man, bateleur, Emo_pinata, Cyouni, SGT_Chubbz, Seppel, TeknoLink, Calvin
Nay (1) - kpaca
~~~~~
@Bat:
The above is post #199, where Seppel has already hinted at a secret ability that he will target another person tonight. This is way way before #518 as you offered.
Let's refer to #536:
Logically speaking, "tonight" at the end of the sentence should be referred to the beginning of the sentence, i.e. "I will be passing it tonight to someone I trust etc.".
I don't buy the alternative interpretation which you offered, where Seppel said one thing and then immediately after said the opposite.
~~~~~
@Everyone: TL used the exact same argument against Vezok in Basic #21:
And the respective alignments:
1. If he did it as town, he knew perfectly well it was a terrible scum tell.
2. The argument "experienced players that don't play like textbook town must be scum" is horrible.
3. As a scum, TL used the exact same argument.
~~~~~
Should I put Nay for you for the soft claim? Since you seem to avoid touching the issue with a 20-foot pole?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
<nods>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
@TeknoLink: If you know what you know about it, then why use it? Surely it isn't that you're just pissed.
Not Nay, yay!
@Kpaca - Yeah, I'd like him to answer the original question, and I want to know why he didn't.
2) @Some One: What question?
3) No time to post right now, will be qaround later.
I don't think I would do a very good job at telling this guy's town and scum games apart because I tend to have a hard time separating n00b town from n00b scum. I'll probably just go with the majority if this wagon develops.
On what issue?
The request for a coherent claim.
<shrugs>
<nods>
<looks puzzled>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
desCoures & Promatim have been prodded.
Vote Count 1.5
Seppel – 6 (kpaca, bateleur, Promatim, Talore, The_Muffin_Man, TeknoLink)
KrackShott – 3 (burboy, AsianInvasion, Seppel)
Promatim – 2 (Dagger, seratonin)
Talore – 2 (nacho wizard, Emo_Pinata)
The_Muffin_Man – 1 (desCoures)
AsianInvasion – 1 (Cyouni)
nacho wizard – 1 (Fenris)
TeknoLink – 1 (AlphaInsidious)
Not voting – Some One, Calvin, KrackShott, Monkey_Playing_MTG, SGT_Chubbz
With 22 alive, it is 12 to lynch.
Vote: TeknoLink
That post was just bad, and the attempted helping of pure WIFOM was worse. This is worth pursuing.
@Seppel and Calvin
Just how strong is that reasoning re:The Muffin Man again when you consider that there is a 'Vanilla Townie' dead in the pregame?
More tomorrow. Also, my character was born in the 1880s.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
A canon character? pardon the question, but what?
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
Sig with tips From PurpleD
[CMB]~Praetor of Madness and Phyrexian Librarian
Not Making sigs atm
Sorry I've been kind of out of it lately, it's just moving fast. I'll catch up.
Plus, this thread seems more coherent without my dumb posts. More intelligent ones coming up soon!
Quotes in blog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)
I don't believe my role is an actual character in the lovecraft mythos.
Problem is that the segmented-claim-thing is what he always does in every game he's in. I don't see it as a knock against him. I want to see how the claim pans out so we can see if he buried himself with a false claim since I don't see a discrepancy that great in the flavor of the setup.
What time period is your character from? It should have something in Wikipedia.
It isn't canon. I believe it was made by Rianalnn. A wikipedia search returns nothing.
191x (1) - Muffin
189x (1) - Chubbz
188x (2) - Bat, dC
187x (1) - Dagger
185x (1) - TL
Non-Canon? (1) - Talore
2800 BC (1) - Seppel
Tight-lipped (1) - kpaca
~~~~~
Some backpedaling on EP's part with regards to the validity of Seppel's claim.
#601:
#614:
Also, this:
187x or 185x? I sense an inconsistency here.
~~~~~
Hmm. Then my points still stand.
We'll see how it goes first.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
<raises eyebrows>
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
LMAO.
Don't crack me up.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Also, Seppel claimed a separate item card that had rules on it. I wouldn't beleive it to be listed in his role. I'm not sure where the backpedal would be there.
I think I see why you say that about desCoures.
Jumping the gun a little...?
Curious.
Birth Decade Soft Claim:
191x (1) - Muffin
189x (3) - Chubbz, Cyouni, Asian
188x (2) - Bat, dC
187x (1) - Dagger
185x (2) - TL, EP
Non-Canon? (1) - Talore
2800 BC (1) - Seppel
Tight-lipped (1) - kpaca
OK.
OK. I'm sure you will elaborate at a a later date.
I think Ged and some others helped out.
I see what you're saying. Still not sure how much weight I would lend it.
Seppel and Dagger already beat me to the punch on this, both in regards to this post and earlier Seppel posts which tell us of night actions.
At this point you're argument that Seppel waited to clarify that he could not pass at day hinges on your own particular way of reading his post, which I don't really understand.
OK.
Can you clarify this please? Don't really understand your way of reading it.
Heh.
1 and 2 don't concern me much since I think town Tekno would probably do it anyway but 3 is more suspicious, especially given that it seems to be a carbon copy of the one here.
Careful with PM quoting.
I agree. Although, I personally lean to not lynching them if there's nothing truly condemning. I probably give them a bi too much leeway but I'm very paranoid of lynching newb town.
I'm not sure how that affects anything.
Your posts have had little content so far. This isn't like you.
I personally don't think it means that much. At the end of the day, this is a flavor concern. Yes, there has been a case on him as well but to me it comes down to if the case is enough to lynch him without bringing this flavor into it. And to me it isn't.
I'm going to put AI vs. Cyouni into the "yet another tl;dr battle that I can't be bothered with" category.
I was born in 190x.
Basic #10-Town-Win
Sword of Truth-Town-Loss
LOTR II - Town-Loss
Indiana Jones - Town-Win
Manipulator - Town-Win
The Asphodel Meadows - Town-Win
Highlander - Neutral Survivor - Win