Huh. So joboman wouldn't have known if H_C were scum. Huh.
Well, that invalidates that whole argument.
I've been liking H_C's responses more than yesterday. Makes sense. I don't want to see him vigged.
Vez feels like the neutral he claimed.
tordeck's opportunism bothers me. So does his extremely heavy gaming the mod to support his vote. Especially since he said absolutely nothing about H_C previous to his vote.
And yes, i'm lurking a bit, but I shamelessly attribute that to it being exam time. That doesn't mean that I'm not keeping up with the game however. I still believe in the R_O lynch.
Zionite confirmed that HC takes 10 votes to lynch so HC's not lying about his ability. Choosing town over scum would explain his first day 2 statement "and i screwed up as well" seeing how 3 towns got killed at night. I think that HC's telling the truth. unvote
Yes we can investigate him to make sure he really is town but i feel like that would be a waste of an investigate. I think it'll be better if we just investigate someone else (like RO for instance).
I believe that nathan was our doctor so if we do have a reviver would we be better off reviving nathan or peter?
I will be out of town for the next week. I will have only a limited amount of internet usage, but I will still be checking up on here and posting. Just wanted to make everyone aware.
And that's clear by looking at the abilities post. Which also makes it abundantly clear that he's not the doctor.
So, pray tell, why did you say he was? And why did you suggest him in the first place?
That seems wrong. "If Peter dies, you die as well." It doesn't say if Peter is dead you die as well. It involves Peter dying, which if he's already dead, he cannot die again to make Nathan die.
Regardless Nathan doesn't seem like the best resurrection choice to me.
EWP: and I asked Zionite about it (figured he'd tell us because of the revealed abilities thing) and Nathan will indeed not instantly die if he is resurrected.
In middle of rereading some things, will post what I find later.
His claim is solid and ability mod confirmed, but I can't help thinking he wouldn't actually have a choice over which personality to choose, mostly because the character didn't have much of a choice. Still, flavor speculation will never trump mod-confirmed abilities and such.
Willing to hear more from Syrenz about his findings. Also willing to hear any arguments about Ace. Not really willing, but wanting.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
I believe that nathan was our doctor so if we do have a reviver would we be better off reviving nathan or peter?
Uhm... Doesnt matter because whoever gets revived would die immediately? Seriously, we're operating off a full disclosure game setup, and as such, anyone who gets revived, if they were WORTH REVIVING, would just die again. Peter would get nom'd by sylar, as would Nathan.
*IF* by some retarded stretch of game design we have a reviver, they should keep it in their pants atleast until sylar dies.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Ace and SB have both been as far as a i can tell mostly plain sight lurking.
I really don't like you. Its not so much that i sense a lack of honesty, as it is i sense a lack of SINCERITY in this post. You don't give off the vibe of someone who cares, nor of a townie.
I think you're very well scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
After a re-read, I've gone back and looked at the people Cyan was very suspicious of.
Since any sane Mafioso would leave Cyan alive to lock his jaws into any of x number of townies, unless they think he's locked his jaws onto one of them, it basically incriminates Ace and R_0. More inclined to be suspicious of the latter, given his blatant hammering. I think we should have let Joboman rant a while longer, he may have given us more gems on his scumbuddies.
But all that is nothing compared to what this post of Jobo's says about Hunted Charlie.
Joboman was on the fence about whether or not to bus his buddy.
Vote Hunted_Charlie.
The comments regarding Hunted Charlie are obsolete, but the discussion of Cyan's suspicions of Ace and red_0mega is worth pursuing.
Twilight posts immediately preceding the lynch scene:
Wow, a lynch that fast? That's ridiculous - I didn't even the get a chance to catch up. :/
This post feels extremely forced/unnecessary.
I don't see how it is in any way, shape or form.
Really? What does the town gain by you repeating something completely obvious that had already been stated twice, and excusing your lack of content in the process?
What alternative is there?
It sure looks like Ace wanted Cyan dead to end what certainly would have been an awkward conversation.
well i could easily call omgus here but often enough I talk bad about people attacking me for reasons not anything like that they are attacking me, so i won't.
However I would like you to define where sincerity and honesty diverge based on a game of mafia.
I would also like you to tell me, in plain English preferably, whether you believe my comment about your plain sight lurking to be correct.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
The comments regarding Hunted Charlie are obsolete, but the discussion of Cyan's suspicions of Ace and red_0mega is worth pursuing.
Twilight posts immediately preceding the lynch scene:
It sure looks like Ace wanted Cyan dead to end what certainly would have been an awkward conversation.
Unvote
Vote Ace
That conversation didn't really seem to be going anywhere. Cyan was commenting on a one-line post by Ace that he didn't like. I still am more suspicious of red_0mega until I see a more significant case against Ace than "he's lurking and Cyan was a little suspicious of him"
@Reviver: If we do have one, the obvious choice should be Peter (Cyan). He's a power role for us (although he does have a large possibility of being NK'd quickly). And since Sylar probably already has an ability much like Peter's, he won't gain any significant power by stealing Peter's ability.
I don't really see the case on Ace. He plays in the same manner pretty much all the time, and I felt Cyan was killed more for his uncharacteristic lurking, rather than that exchange.
In a way, I'd actually much prefer Sylar not to get his hands on Peter's ability. At least with each kill we know what Sylar has gained.
I am now back, and am commencing a re-read of the game, with thoughts to come over the next few days.
@Reviver: If we do have one, the obvious choice should be Peter (Cyan). He's a power role for us (although he does have a large possibility of being NK'd quickly). And since Sylar probably already has an ability much like Peter's, he won't gain any significant power by stealing Peter's ability.
Well, I hate agreeing with you, but you're right about that. Plus town-confirmed Cyan is always a good thing.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I don't really see the case on Ace. He plays in the same manner pretty much all the time, and I felt Cyan was killed more for his uncharacteristic lurking, rather than that exchange.
I read through some of Ace's past games and indeed his playstyle and lurkingness has been pretty much the same through his games regardless of aligment. I'm still not a fan of his fishing but it's not enough for me to vote him.
Reread tordeck. Not much to go on to due his lack of posts. The few he has though have me reading him as scum. His vote in post #71 was absolutely terrible, jumping on a case on Vezo that did not exist. His post in #208 does not display a town mentality at all, he wants Vezo to be lynched before any scumhunting is done. His vote on HC was also quite bad considering he had never expressed any suspicion on HC. He was absent for the entire duration of the Jobo wagon and has lurked and not provided any real content.
In a way, I'd actually much prefer Sylar not to get his hands on Peter's ability. At least with each kill we know what Sylar has gained.
I don't feel we have to worry about Sylar killing Peter. Since he's the SK his primary objective is to kill everyone not steal abilities. I don't see why he would ever use a non-kill ability over a kill.
It's true. Ace does tend to barely be in the game even as town, Duel Monsters being the most recent example. Still, I'm wondering what TACKY thinks about Ace given his last post.
Where was it confirmed he was the SK? Could not his con be to gain x amount of powers or to kill claire?
Do you really expect the game to end as soon as Sylar kills Claire? Sylar is even described as a serial killer on Heroeswiki; what makes you think that he'd have any other win condition?
And sorry bucko but no matter how much you don't like my playstyle I am town through and through. Lynching me will just set us farther in the hole.
"I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN" won't work here, Seppel.
Also, that last sentence of yours is fearmongering. As town, players are supposed to prove their alignment with their actions, not scare people into lynching others.
The case against you isn't the best but it's the best we've got.
Unvote
Vote tordeck
In a way, I'd actually much prefer Sylar not to get his hands on Peter's ability. At least with each kill we know what Sylar has gained.
Wouldn't we know that Sylar has gained nothing if he kills Peter before Peter gets any abilities? I'm assuming that Cyan would die before having a chance to get anybody else's abilities so we wouldn't have to worry about potential second-hand ability stealing.
And I am just stating a hard cold fact. The last thing we need now is another dead townie.
I can't tell whether this is scummy or just illogical. Obviously we can't trust you saying "I am town". The mafia say that just as well as you do. We're looking for reasoning and evidence to make us believe you.
I need a re-read on Tordeck to see what I think of this bandwagon. Also, just so y'all know, I'm visiting colleges Monday-Friday for this week and the next. I've got internet access at nights so I'll still be here, but I probably won't have time for in-depth analysis like PBPAs etc.
Sorry I missed the fun of random stage, but I'm here now and after the last few posts I got to vote vezo. Plain and simple bad playing and outing himself as scum quick and early.
No explanation as to why the playing is bad - just a straight barn of OMT. OMT's post was pretty jumpy too, but at least he stated that he was basing his accusation on meta. You just barn, and worse, you barn and make it appear like it's your own thoughts. If you're going to say someone has outed themselves as scum, you should start by explaining why.
I think instead of outing himself as scum he may have just claimed the bomb, and if I read it right the more times he is tarrgeted at nite the closer he comes to blowing up. Making tthe safest way to get rid of him. To be right now with a lynch. Vote stands
A townie would ask for more information here, rather than push for a lynch immediately. If you believed what Vezo was saying, why didn't you unvote right there and then, given that he said bad things would happen if you voted for him? You also use the "latest developments" to try and distract from your initial vote, which you still hadn't properly explained.
I misread the tell. I thoughtnervous noob scum but it turned out it was painicing noob rogue about blow up
This post is incredibly vague. You don't point out what "the tell" you're talking about is, and how you misread it. This sounds a lot like you don't want to actually explain what you were thinking.
I feel that lynching vezo now is the best option. Once thats taken care of we can figure out who else needs to go.
So you thought that lynching Vezo immediately would be better than looking into the HC case, and potentially lynching scum?
I was sorta /barning as I agreed to the fact I thought it was a scum tell being given off.
and I took a shot in the dark based off ted's flavour from the show, and my limited knowledge of mafia wrokings. did i get lucky and hit the nail on the head, yes. did i knwo anything from the inside, no.
Finally, after being pressed repeatedly, you admit that you were "sorta" barning OMT. "Sorta" barning? Where were you not barning? Did you have any original thoughts, or were you simply barning? You're still being incredibly vague and failing to explain any of your thoughts.
We remove the imminent threat Vote Vez
This is now D2, and you've contributed precious little besides repeatedly pushing for us to lynch the claimed neutral who purportedly wants to help the town. Not that it's a completely unreasonable position to take, but a townie would consider all courses of action rather than this one-track voting and justifying your vote.
Vez, you are right. Jess was the one with the strengh. unvote vote hc
Wait, what? So you're familiar enough with the show to make this statement with conviction, yet you're totally wrong? If you were town and even 90% certain, you would go make sure given that it's important enough.
Then there's the vote. You've been maintaining all game long that we should deal with Vezo to the virtual exclusion of everything else, yet you switch your vote here? I thought lynching the "imminent threat" (bomb) was the most important thing to do today?
@ai you made my point for me ty. It wasn't until the end of season that nikki figured out how to use her power and to game the mod a little, I can't see zion useing. Fluff from only the end to give a power so if he was in fact nikki he would not be able to use his power until later in the game or not at all.
Now you're going to push for a lynch almost solely based on mod-gaming? This is the second time you've tried to come up with a ridiculous reason to disbelieve HC's claim. You never said a word about the HC case until the claim, but now that you think you can put him away you're trying absolutely anything you can think of.
It happened at the end of the season, I'm not saying he oonly used ther first half i m saying that he more than likly wouldn't use something from the last 5% of the season to build a character/power.
So you defend yourself by just repeating what you said in the first place?
Tordeck: It's A.
HC: Where did the mod say it couldn't be B?
Tordeck: It's A.
See the problem? You still haven't addressed the point.
I did come right out and say I was though. And yeah, give me some time to reread the case on RO and I'll see what I can contribute. Other than that I nothing really caught my eye other than getting rid of "The Bomb" and HC's bad claim.
No, you never said you were mod-gaming. You used mod-gaming as legitimate justification for lynching someone. And "HC's bad claim"? Why is the claim bad? Are you still using the ridiculous mod-gaming as a reason?
EBWODP - A lot of the time I am posting from my phone so my posts will not usually be very long ones.
Nice of you to qualify your promised analysis by saying it's not going to be very good. That has the nice side-effect of still not having to provide any real content.
Where was it confirmed he was the SK? Could not his con be to gain x amount of powers or to kill claire?
And sorry bucko but no matter how much you don't like my playstyle I am town through and through. Lynching me will just set us farther in the hole.
I don't like this post at all. First of all, you're being a total hypocrite for attacking someone else's (admittedly far less severe) mod-gaming. How can you say that we can't make the assumption that Sylar is a SK yet it's OK to assume that HC can't make a choice N1 because Nikki only learns to use her power late in the season?
Then there's the second paragraph. It's incredibly defensive and jumpy: you're afraid of a lynch yet you won't even make an effort to discuss Syrenz's accusations?
Id rather keep my min open then jump to conclusions about unconfirmed power roles.
And I am just stating a hard cold fact. The last thing we need now is another dead townie.
See my comments on the previous post. This is almost a verbatim repetition of that one. This is the second time you've answered an accusation not by defending yourself but by repeating what you said in the first place.
In conclusion:
Tordeck has been lurking. He provided very little prior to HC's claim except an insistence that we lynch Vezo. He then switched his vote with little explanation and tried to use some ridiculous reasons to get HC lynched. Finally, he has not given satisfactory answers to any of the questions asked of him thus far. He has either been incredibly vague or simply repeated his convictions in response.
ww erm.... i was gonna go off and do another reread but dude, ice man beat me to it, case on tordeck seems plenty convincing. vote tordeck, though i would put in that lurking is not the best reason to vote him the rest certainly are. If we are voting people for lurking stormblind, ace, etc.
But the complete nd utter failure to provide usefull content or analasys seems like a perfectly good reason to want him dead. One i, in fact have to agree with.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
And that's clear by looking at the abilities post. Which also makes it abundantly clear that he's not the doctor.
So, pray tell, why did you say he was? And why did you suggest him in the first place?
The ability post says that if peter dies, not if peter is dead. I thought he was doctor because he is able to rescue a person at night, and i suggested him because doctors are useful to have around, if town claims a powerrole that scum would want to kill, doctor can easily protect.
@OMT: The lurking itself is not a problem. It's the incredibly opportunistic lurking, where he becomes active whenever he thinks that we can lynch someone (Vezo, HC).
out of curiosity was he active at all before the end of the jobo lynch? cause if he wasn't then the pattern of wanting other players lynched but then holding off when the one lynched is going to be scum is a pretty big tell.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
@TheIceMan: Thanks for getting that together. It's a tough case to look at because tordeck has so few posts--but the ones that he has made are undoubtedly scummy. He has done nothing but barn the whole game, and the fact that he appears opportunistically seems to imply that it's not just general lurking. Actually, his play pattern reminds me a lot of red_0mega--but with less content.
out of curiosity was he active at all before the end of the jobo lynch? cause if he wasn't then the pattern of wanting other players lynched but then holding off when the one lynched is going to be scum is a pretty big tell.
Just checked, he made one post in that era, in the middle of the jobo bandwagon. It didn't mention joboman at all. I agree, that's super suspicious.
Although I do like the case on Tordeck and I support more investigation into him, I still feel the red_0mega case is stronger for the reasons I've outlined earlier. He follows the same play patterns but with more preposterous content to analyze and therefore more evidence against him. So for now my vote stands on red_0mega to encourage more people to look at his wagon. If it becomes clear that there is no chance of the red_0mega wagon going anywhere today, I'll switch it to Tordeck to increase the pressure.
ww erm.... i was gonna go off and do another reread but dude, ice man beat me to it, case on tordeck seems plenty convincing. vote tordeck, though i would put in that lurking is not the best reason to vote him the rest certainly are. If we are voting people for lurking stormblind, ace, etc.
But the complete nd utter failure to provide usefull content or analasys seems like a perfectly good reason to want him dead. One i, in fact have to agree with.
I severely hate this post and this vote. Unvote, Vote OneMoreTime.
Wouldn't we know that Sylar has gained nothing if he kills Peter before Peter gets any abilities? I'm assuming that Cyan would die before having a chance to get anybody else's abilities so we wouldn't have to worry about potential second-hand ability stealing.
I meant more that if sylar takes peter's ability, he can use it to gain other abilities without killing, meaning we don't know what he has gained.
------------------
I have completed my re-read:
1) OMT is incredibly town. For everyone on his wagon, I invite you to go look at: #117, wherein he votes joboman well before the wagon took off. coupled with 254 & 256, I see no way that OMT can be mafia. Newb scum don't bus like that. His attempt at analysis in 396 is also indicative of townie scumhunting.
2) DKD is still obvious town. Cyouni is likely town too, because of the joboman crusade.
I think syrenz, iceman & TACKY are all town too.
3) players who I have no or neutral read on consist of:
AI - who is jumping around on wagons, but is also being very concrete in his reads. Given his track record of being a pretty bad scum, I'm tending toward him being town.
Ace - Lurking Ace is being Ace
HC - I keep going back and forth. I think his claim is true, and it certainly is believable that he used his "choice" last night, but there keep being little things that make me uncomfortable.
R_0 - I don't have a read at all, but I don't think he's scummy enough to warrant a lynch
SB - minimal participation and nothing to actually get a read off of.
Dracofaust - I'd need to actually read his posts back to get a read. Seems to be a lot of barning, but nothing overtly worrying. Very Newby.
tordeck - Short posts provide very little to look at. I don't see exactly what everyone else is getting at with him. I will look back in more detail at some point.
3) Scummy players are:
Nom_Anor: has had a general desire to lynch vezo instead of acutally look for scum, was late onto the joboman wagon AND onto the HC wagon.
AE: A gut read.
Wrath of Dog: post #413 was terrible, by putting suspicion on multiple parties (2 of which with WIFOM logic), and using a joboman post out of context to justify a vote on HC. He also keeps voting for OMT.
I am opertunisticly lurking? Yeah a little. But I read every post that is made, and instead of beating a dead horse when I agree with someone I act. Does that make me look scummy? Maybe. But I figure the only way to beat thre meta to to always play the same regardless of alignment. Will it get me lynched a few times? More than likely. But it will end up helping me in games down the road. So I play my way no matter what.
ww erm.... i was gonna go off and do another reread but dude, ice man beat me to it, case on tordeck seems plenty convincing. vote tordeck, though i would put in that lurking is not the best reason to vote him the rest certainly are. If we are voting people for lurking stormblind, ace, etc.
But the complete nd utter failure to provide usefull content or analasys seems like a perfectly good reason to want him dead. One i, in fact have to agree with.
I severely hate this post and this vote. Unvote, Vote OneMoreTime.
I severely hate this post and this vote. Unvote, Vote: Wrath_of_Dog. (see what I did there?)
Hey wod if you want to get a wagon going on me would you please explain what in that post you do not like and what about it makes me scummy? I'll do my best to show you you're wrong :D.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
this [QUOTE=tordeck;/comments/10681373]I am opertunisticly lurking? Yeah a little. But I read every post that is made, and instead of beating a dead horse when I agree with someone I act. Does that make me look scummy? Maybe. But I figure the only way to beat thre meta to to always play the same regardless of alignment. Will it get me lynched a few times? More than likely. But it will end up helping me in games down the road. So I play my way no matter what.[/QUOThTE]
This type of mindset is not Pro-Town by any stretch of the imagination. I like my vote on WoD right now, but this pings my scumdar hard.
Its about being consistant, no matter how iyou think I'm playing. Because over the long term noone will be able to get aread one way or the other and this will help me over accross every game I play. If I look like scum wiether I'm town,cult,neutral,or scum. Your right it isn't a pro town mindset for this particular game but it is a pro me mindset for the over all long haul.
With the mindset you are currently describing you will never be of use to any side during any game of mafia, please develop a new mindset posthaste. If you are town then preferably before you are lynched, if you are scum it can wait till the next time i have to play with you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Its about being consistant, no matter how iyou think I'm playing. Because over the long term noone will be able to get aread one way or the other and this will help me over accross every game I play. If I look like scum wiether I'm town,cult,neutral,or scum. Your right it isn't a pro town mindset for this particular game but it is a pro me mindset for the over all long haul.
@ mod vote count please
Unvote
Vote: Tordeck
On the contrary, that's a pro-scum mindset. Maybe not in this game, but in general, if you're town, then you WANT other players to be able to read you.
Sorry guys, but I find it worth a mislynch to discourage this kind of play.
No idea if he's town or not, but I'm keeping my vote on him until he agrees to change his mindest.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I am opertunisticly lurking? Yeah a little. But I read every post that is made, and instead of beating a dead horse when I agree with someone I act. Does that make me look scummy? Maybe. But I figure the only way to beat thre meta to to always play the same regardless of alignment. Will it get me lynched a few times? More than likely. But it will end up helping me in games down the road. So I play my way no matter what.
So your response to everything I've just pointed out is agreeing with me that you're acting scummy and saying that you're OK with that just so it will help you in later games? That's ridiculous.
Let's compare mafia to poker for a minute. I am establishing a poker face here and in the rest of my current games, because no I don't want people to ever be able to read me for those times when I am not town. If I play like I'm on tiltb all the time one will never know if I really am and it becomes a null tell. Yes a few pots will be lost in the begining but over time the money will be made as noone can read you.
Let's compare mafia to poker for a minute. I am establishing a poker face here and in the rest of my current games, because no I don't want people to ever be able to read me for those times when I am not town. If I play like I'm on tiltb all the time one will never know if I really am and it becomes a null tell. Yes a few pots will be lost in the begining but over time the money will be made as noone can read you.
Except that poker doesn't have town and scum. If you were actually town you'd be interested in helping the town win the game. As it is all you're interested in is helping yourself out when you're scum in the future (and probably right now too, since it's a handy excuse). Please, can we just lynch this guy?
Let's compare mafia to poker for a minute. I am establishing a poker face here and in the rest of my current games, because no I don't want people to ever be able to read me for those times when I am not town. If I play like I'm on tiltb all the time one will never know if I really am and it becomes a null tell. Yes a few pots will be lost in the begining but over time the money will be made as noone can read you.
Yes. And we don't want that to happen. So it is in our best interest to lynch you until you change your behavior. By doing so, we make it unprofitable for you to continue with this.
You're free to continue doing this--you're just going to get lynched a lot more than you would otherwise, town or scum.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I am opertunisticly lurking? Yeah a little. But I read every post that is made, and instead of beating a dead horse when I agree with someone I act. Does that make me look scummy? Maybe. But I figure the only way to beat thre meta to to always play the same regardless of alignment. Will it get me lynched a few times? More than likely. But it will end up helping me in games down the road. So I play my way no matter what.
Its about being consistant, no matter how iyou think I'm playing. Because over the long term noone will be able to get aread one way or the other and this will help me over accross every game I play. If I look like scum wiether I'm town,cult,neutral,or scum. Your right it isn't a pro town mindset for this particular game but it is a pro me mindset for the over all long haul.
Let's compare mafia to poker for a minute. I am establishing a poker face here and in the rest of my current games, because no I don't want people to ever be able to read me for those times when I am not town. If I play like I'm on tiltb all the time one will never know if I really am and it becomes a null tell. Yes a few pots will be lost in the begining but over time the money will be made as noone can read you.
I tried that. It was stupid.
It establishes a line of "when in doubt, lynch".
Did I say it was stupid?
On the contrary, that's a pro-scum mindset. Maybe not in this game, but in general, if you're town, then you WANT other players to be able to read you.
Sorry guys, but I find it worth a mislynch to discourage this kind of play.
No idea if he's town or not, but I'm keeping my vote on him until he agrees to change his mindest.
This is extremely bad reasoning. Lynching town on purpose is virtually never correct. I am going to reread your posts when I get a chance.
Let's compare mafia to poker for a minute. I am establishing a poker face here and in the rest of my current games, because no I don't want people to ever be able to read me for those times when I am not town. If I play like I'm on tiltb all the time one will never know if I really am and it becomes a null tell. Yes a few pots will be lost in the begining but over time the money will be made as noone can read you.
Actually, if you play consistently scummy in all of your games you'll just get lynched regardless of alignment. What you want to do is play consistently townish in all of your games, but you're a long ways from figuring out how to do that.
I'm debating whether tordeck would make this kind of self-aware post regarding his own strategy as scum. I wouldn't expect him to be that cunning, but Cyouni's point (I'm not even sure if it was in this game) regarding not underestimating n00b scum rings true. I wouldn't mind this guy eating a vig shot, though; certainly better than wasting a lynch.
Ecophagy's scum list is pretty good. Nom_Anor and Wrath_of_DoG are next on my list of people to look into. Archmage Eternal I've been reading as town, though.
Well, that invalidates that whole argument.
I've been liking H_C's responses more than yesterday. Makes sense. I don't want to see him vigged.
Vez feels like the neutral he claimed.
tordeck's opportunism bothers me. So does his extremely heavy gaming the mod to support his vote. Especially since he said absolutely nothing about H_C previous to his vote.
Didn't Loran say that in L5R? And wasn't he scum?
It's a classic quote. Don't read into it.
And yes, i'm lurking a bit, but I shamelessly attribute that to it being exam time. That doesn't mean that I'm not keeping up with the game however. I still believe in the R_O lynch.
unvote
Yes we can investigate him to make sure he really is town but i feel like that would be a waste of an investigate. I think it'll be better if we just investigate someone else (like RO for instance).
I believe that nathan was our doctor so if we do have a reviver would we be better off reviving nathan or peter?
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
So, pray tell, why did you say he was? And why did you suggest him in the first place?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
That seems wrong. "If Peter dies, you die as well." It doesn't say if Peter is dead you die as well. It involves Peter dying, which if he's already dead, he cannot die again to make Nathan die.Regardless Nathan doesn't seem like the best resurrection choice to me.
EWP: and I asked Zionite about it (figured he'd tell us because of the revealed abilities thing) and Nathan will indeed not instantly die if he is resurrected.
In middle of rereading some things, will post what I find later.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
His claim is solid and ability mod confirmed, but I can't help thinking he wouldn't actually have a choice over which personality to choose, mostly because the character didn't have much of a choice. Still, flavor speculation will never trump mod-confirmed abilities and such.
Willing to hear more from Syrenz about his findings. Also willing to hear any arguments about Ace. Not really willing, but wanting.
Uhm... Doesnt matter because whoever gets revived would die immediately? Seriously, we're operating off a full disclosure game setup, and as such, anyone who gets revived, if they were WORTH REVIVING, would just die again. Peter would get nom'd by sylar, as would Nathan.
*IF* by some retarded stretch of game design we have a reviver, they should keep it in their pants atleast until sylar dies.
I really don't like you. Its not so much that i sense a lack of honesty, as it is i sense a lack of SINCERITY in this post. You don't give off the vibe of someone who cares, nor of a townie.
I think you're very well scum.
The comments regarding Hunted Charlie are obsolete, but the discussion of Cyan's suspicions of Ace and red_0mega is worth pursuing.
Twilight posts immediately preceding the lynch scene:
It sure looks like Ace wanted Cyan dead to end what certainly would have been an awkward conversation.
Unvote
Vote Ace
However I would like you to define where sincerity and honesty diverge based on a game of mafia.
I would also like you to tell me, in plain English preferably, whether you believe my comment about your plain sight lurking to be correct.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
@Reviver: If we do have one, the obvious choice should be Peter (Cyan). He's a power role for us (although he does have a large possibility of being NK'd quickly). And since Sylar probably already has an ability much like Peter's, he won't gain any significant power by stealing Peter's ability.
In a way, I'd actually much prefer Sylar not to get his hands on Peter's ability. At least with each kill we know what Sylar has gained.
I am now back, and am commencing a re-read of the game, with thoughts to come over the next few days.
Or the scum killed Cyan with the intent to make Ace and r_0 look bad. Too much WIFOM for me.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Well, I hate agreeing with you, but you're right about that. Plus town-confirmed Cyan is always a good thing.
yeah that's WIFOM which I don't want to get into.
I read through some of Ace's past games and indeed his playstyle and lurkingness has been pretty much the same through his games regardless of aligment. I'm still not a fan of his fishing but it's not enough for me to vote him.
Reread tordeck. Not much to go on to due his lack of posts. The few he has though have me reading him as scum. His vote in post #71 was absolutely terrible, jumping on a case on Vezo that did not exist. His post in #208 does not display a town mentality at all, he wants Vezo to be lynched before any scumhunting is done. His vote on HC was also quite bad considering he had never expressed any suspicion on HC. He was absent for the entire duration of the Jobo wagon and has lurked and not provided any real content.
Unvote, Vote Tordeck
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I don't feel we have to worry about Sylar killing Peter. Since he's the SK his primary objective is to kill everyone not steal abilities. I don't see why he would ever use a non-kill ability over a kill.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
And sorry bucko but no matter how much you don't like my playstyle I am town through and through. Lynching me will just set us farther in the hole.
The Family
Do you really expect the game to end as soon as Sylar kills Claire? Sylar is even described as a serial killer on Heroeswiki; what makes you think that he'd have any other win condition?
"I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN I'M TOWN" won't work here, Seppel.
Also, that last sentence of yours is fearmongering. As town, players are supposed to prove their alignment with their actions, not scare people into lynching others.
The case against you isn't the best but it's the best we've got.
Unvote
Vote tordeck
And I am just stating a hard cold fact. The last thing we need now is another dead townie.
The Family
I can't tell whether this is scummy or just illogical. Obviously we can't trust you saying "I am town". The mafia say that just as well as you do. We're looking for reasoning and evidence to make us believe you.
I need a re-read on Tordeck to see what I think of this bandwagon. Also, just so y'all know, I'm visiting colleges Monday-Friday for this week and the next. I've got internet access at nights so I'll still be here, but I probably won't have time for in-depth analysis like PBPAs etc.
No explanation as to why the playing is bad - just a straight barn of OMT. OMT's post was pretty jumpy too, but at least he stated that he was basing his accusation on meta. You just barn, and worse, you barn and make it appear like it's your own thoughts. If you're going to say someone has outed themselves as scum, you should start by explaining why.
A townie would ask for more information here, rather than push for a lynch immediately. If you believed what Vezo was saying, why didn't you unvote right there and then, given that he said bad things would happen if you voted for him? You also use the "latest developments" to try and distract from your initial vote, which you still hadn't properly explained.
This post is incredibly vague. You don't point out what "the tell" you're talking about is, and how you misread it. This sounds a lot like you don't want to actually explain what you were thinking.
So you thought that lynching Vezo immediately would be better than looking into the HC case, and potentially lynching scum?
Finally, after being pressed repeatedly, you admit that you were "sorta" barning OMT. "Sorta" barning? Where were you not barning? Did you have any original thoughts, or were you simply barning? You're still being incredibly vague and failing to explain any of your thoughts.
This is now D2, and you've contributed precious little besides repeatedly pushing for us to lynch the claimed neutral who purportedly wants to help the town. Not that it's a completely unreasonable position to take, but a townie would consider all courses of action rather than this one-track voting and justifying your vote.
Wait, what? So you're familiar enough with the show to make this statement with conviction, yet you're totally wrong? If you were town and even 90% certain, you would go make sure given that it's important enough.
Then there's the vote. You've been maintaining all game long that we should deal with Vezo to the virtual exclusion of everything else, yet you switch your vote here? I thought lynching the "imminent threat" (bomb) was the most important thing to do today?
Now you're going to push for a lynch almost solely based on mod-gaming? This is the second time you've tried to come up with a ridiculous reason to disbelieve HC's claim. You never said a word about the HC case until the claim, but now that you think you can put him away you're trying absolutely anything you can think of.
So you defend yourself by just repeating what you said in the first place?
Tordeck: It's A.
HC: Where did the mod say it couldn't be B?
Tordeck: It's A.
See the problem? You still haven't addressed the point.
No, you never said you were mod-gaming. You used mod-gaming as legitimate justification for lynching someone. And "HC's bad claim"? Why is the claim bad? Are you still using the ridiculous mod-gaming as a reason?
Nice of you to qualify your promised analysis by saying it's not going to be very good. That has the nice side-effect of still not having to provide any real content.
I don't like this post at all. First of all, you're being a total hypocrite for attacking someone else's (admittedly far less severe) mod-gaming. How can you say that we can't make the assumption that Sylar is a SK yet it's OK to assume that HC can't make a choice N1 because Nikki only learns to use her power late in the season?
Then there's the second paragraph. It's incredibly defensive and jumpy: you're afraid of a lynch yet you won't even make an effort to discuss Syrenz's accusations?
See my comments on the previous post. This is almost a verbatim repetition of that one. This is the second time you've answered an accusation not by defending yourself but by repeating what you said in the first place.
In conclusion:
Tordeck has been lurking. He provided very little prior to HC's claim except an insistence that we lynch Vezo. He then switched his vote with little explanation and tried to use some ridiculous reasons to get HC lynched. Finally, he has not given satisfactory answers to any of the questions asked of him thus far. He has either been incredibly vague or simply repeated his convictions in response.
Vote: Tordeck.
But the complete nd utter failure to provide usefull content or analasys seems like a perfectly good reason to want him dead. One i, in fact have to agree with.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
The ability post says that if peter dies, not if peter is dead. I thought he was doctor because he is able to rescue a person at night, and i suggested him because doctors are useful to have around, if town claims a powerrole that scum would want to kill, doctor can easily protect.
Really bad response for me. I want to see what tordeck says in regard to ica mans post.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Just checked, he made one post in that era, in the middle of the jobo bandwagon. It didn't mention joboman at all. I agree, that's super suspicious.
Although I do like the case on Tordeck and I support more investigation into him, I still feel the red_0mega case is stronger for the reasons I've outlined earlier. He follows the same play patterns but with more preposterous content to analyze and therefore more evidence against him. So for now my vote stands on red_0mega to encourage more people to look at his wagon. If it becomes clear that there is no chance of the red_0mega wagon going anywhere today, I'll switch it to Tordeck to increase the pressure.
I meant more that if sylar takes peter's ability, he can use it to gain other abilities without killing, meaning we don't know what he has gained.
------------------
I have completed my re-read:
1) OMT is incredibly town. For everyone on his wagon, I invite you to go look at:
#117, wherein he votes joboman well before the wagon took off. coupled with 254 & 256, I see no way that OMT can be mafia. Newb scum don't bus like that. His attempt at analysis in 396 is also indicative of townie scumhunting.
2) DKD is still obvious town. Cyouni is likely town too, because of the joboman crusade.
I think syrenz, iceman & TACKY are all town too.
3) players who I have no or neutral read on consist of:
AI - who is jumping around on wagons, but is also being very concrete in his reads. Given his track record of being a pretty bad scum, I'm tending toward him being town.
Ace - Lurking Ace is being Ace
HC - I keep going back and forth. I think his claim is true, and it certainly is believable that he used his "choice" last night, but there keep being little things that make me uncomfortable.
R_0 - I don't have a read at all, but I don't think he's scummy enough to warrant a lynch
SB - minimal participation and nothing to actually get a read off of.
Dracofaust - I'd need to actually read his posts back to get a read. Seems to be a lot of barning, but nothing overtly worrying. Very Newby.
tordeck - Short posts provide very little to look at. I don't see exactly what everyone else is getting at with him. I will look back in more detail at some point.
3) Scummy players are:
Nom_Anor: has had a general desire to lynch vezo instead of acutally look for scum, was late onto the joboman wagon AND onto the HC wagon.
AE: A gut read.
Wrath of Dog: post #413 was terrible, by putting suspicion on multiple parties (2 of which with WIFOM logic), and using a joboman post out of context to justify a vote on HC. He also keeps voting for OMT.
Vote Wrath of Dog
The Family
A) bad and unhelpfull to the town and
B) getting you lynched in almost every game
Will not help you when you are town or scum. can we lynch this guy?
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
I severely hate this post and this vote. Unvote, Vote: Wrath_of_Dog. (see what I did there?)
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
This type of mindset is not Pro-Town by any stretch of the imagination. I like my vote on WoD right now, but this pings my scumdar hard.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
@ mod vote count please
The Family
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Players needed to lynch: 9
Hunted_Charlie - 3 - tordeck, Nom_Anor, vezokpiraka - (L-7)
red_0mega - 3 - Hunted_Charlie, Ace - (L-6)
OneMoreTime - 2 - Archmage_Eternal, Wrath_of_DoG - (L-7)
tordeck - 4 - OneMoreTime, Syrenz, AsianInvasion, TheIceMan - (L-5)
Wrath_of_DoG - 2 - Ecophagy, dropkickdude - (L-7)
Players not voting: StormBlind, Cyouni, red_0mega, dracofaust, TACKY
Please make me aware of mistakes.
Unvote
Vote: Tordeck
On the contrary, that's a pro-scum mindset. Maybe not in this game, but in general, if you're town, then you WANT other players to be able to read you.
Sorry guys, but I find it worth a mislynch to discourage this kind of play.
No idea if he's town or not, but I'm keeping my vote on him until he agrees to change his mindest.
So your response to everything I've just pointed out is agreeing with me that you're acting scummy and saying that you're OK with that just so it will help you in later games? That's ridiculous.
Vote Stands.
The Family
Except that poker doesn't have town and scum. If you were actually town you'd be interested in helping the town win the game. As it is all you're interested in is helping yourself out when you're scum in the future (and probably right now too, since it's a handy excuse). Please, can we just lynch this guy?
Yes. And we don't want that to happen. So it is in our best interest to lynch you until you change your behavior. By doing so, we make it unprofitable for you to continue with this.
You're free to continue doing this--you're just going to get lynched a lot more than you would otherwise, town or scum.
I tried that. It was stupid.
It establishes a line of "when in doubt, lynch".
Did I say it was stupid?
You mind saying exactly what you hate?
---
By the way, exams on right now. Won't be able to do serious analysis for a while.
This is extremely bad reasoning. Lynching town on purpose is virtually never correct. I am going to reread your posts when I get a chance.
Actually, if you play consistently scummy in all of your games you'll just get lynched regardless of alignment. What you want to do is play consistently townish in all of your games, but you're a long ways from figuring out how to do that.
I'm debating whether tordeck would make this kind of self-aware post regarding his own strategy as scum. I wouldn't expect him to be that cunning, but Cyouni's point (I'm not even sure if it was in this game) regarding not underestimating n00b scum rings true. I wouldn't mind this guy eating a vig shot, though; certainly better than wasting a lynch.
Ecophagy's scum list is pretty good. Nom_Anor and Wrath_of_DoG are next on my list of people to look into. Archmage Eternal I've been reading as town, though.