Some setup speculation:
Zionite was extremely reluctant to open a spectator forum for this game, but said that he would be able to "eventually." Why would that be the case when other hosts who make such forums (Axelrod, RobRoy, etc.) open them up immediately? Well, I was equally leery to open up the spec forum to dead players when I hosted Guildpact Mafia because there was a Reviver in that game!
If there's a Reviver in this game, that player should target Peter.
Uh...I think the whole "DON'T TALK TO PEOPLE ONCE YOU'VE DIED" rule being beaten into us is a slightly more obvious clue.
I also don't think targeting peter is a good idea, because he'll come back...and...just die again. He won't have any time-frame in which to gather abilities before the scum just kill him again.
Why do you want Peter back?
Quote from AsianInvasion »
Upon review, TACKY's story and Nom_Anor's defense of it confuse me. Why would the scum block TACKY when his plan was to stop vezokpiraka, who is a threat to both town and scum, when it should be obvious that the town wouldn't lynch the claimed neutral over scum? I wouldn't be surprised if TACKY is simply scum who lied about being RB'd on D2 to gain town cred. This seems to be a common trend in games I've been in recently (Basic #17, Duel Monsters).
That's a lot of WIFOM. Especially since TACKY said his plan was mostly to catch scum, not to deal with Vezo. Stands to reason the scum would stop it.
Anyone with any knowledge of the series should have figured out by now which character is the roleblocker.
..... i voted him at the beginning of the day because i had a scummy gut read on him and a few people i believe to be solid town had voted him as well. Then i went back to make a case on him myself to get him effectively lynched and realized that there was no reason to make a case. The case was bad!
and FYI... I'M THE ONE DEFENDING HIM!!!!!
The bold part. Makes no sense. Why? Earlier you said that you thought the wagon might be scum driven, but that's a flip from your supposed reasoning when you jumped aboard.
So, now that you have "looked back" at the beginning of the day, which was not too long ago mind you, who do you think is scum driving that wagon and why? Your flip is really quick too, which makes me feel more like this is all a sham.
In other news, I'm not sure I buy the R0 case, but I'll wait for R0's response to expand more.
AsianInvasion's doubt in my "story" seems bad. Eco gets the idea, scumhunting, but Asian's doubt seems out of place.
If HC does end up being the lynch today, it will say a lot about OMT. Going to reread the end of D1.
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Tacky: You were 100% confident in your plan for N1, yet you were stymied by a simple RB? Are you telling me you never considered that?
As for the R0 case, no matter what anyone says there was no good possible town reason for him to hammer as he did at the end of D1. Doesn't matter how "excited" he was to catch scum. The rest of HC's analysis, though, seems to revolve around R0's lack of explanation for his voting - I don't wholeheartedly agree. It was very difficult to get stuck into the analysis on D1 just because the pace of the game was ridiculous. Leave for a few hours and there's 30 new posts. Difficult to provide tons of content in that kind of environment. Additionally, if I'm reading R0 correctly he basically just flat-out barned Tacky on HC, which given that Tacky has appeared fairly towny is just what an overwhelmed town (overwhelmed by the pace of the game, that is) would do.
The bold part. Makes no sense. Why? Earlier you said that you thought the wagon might be scum driven, but that's a flip from your supposed reasoning when you jumped aboard.
Damn Tacky I overlooked that. Yeah its a scum driving wagon but a few people he believe to be solid town had voted. Flail.
Your caught. Your either defending your buddy and distracting to another player or you know HC will flip town so you want to look good.
Tacky: You were 100% confident in your plan for N1, yet you were stymied by a simple RB? Are you telling me you never considered that?
Yeah, I considered it, but that's the scum digging their own grave. They roleblock me and not only do they have a chance at ending the whole game and losing, but they waste an RB on me. It leaves them open to investigations, possible Doc's protecting their kill etc.
So, yeah, I knew about an RB, but it's an incredible disadvantage to the scum to block me. I guess I didn't think they would be so naive.
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I didn't realize the wagon was ridiculous till I WENT BACK AND LOOKED. sigh, sorry for the many posts AE is frustrating me almost to the point of unreason.
I will contradict myself just once more though. The wagon being scum driven comment was probably a false one. There are scum on his wagon but the original main drivers are mostly town in my opinion.
You correct yourself without details. You still say there are scum on the wagon, so who and how? And who are the main drivers in your opinion? Using undefined terms leaves excuses for you later on, so define your terms sir.
Also, your massive frustration in four minutes time (first post timestampes at 3:48, last at 3:51) seems unfounded.
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Alright, I'm back from my various assessments and stresses to check in.
I'm not quite sure why we're not offering R_Omega's head to the various Gods. His scummy hammer is more than enough to get us seriously thinking about digging his grave.
This is by far his most scummiest post in game (barring the hammer):
There is no case.
I hammered joboman. I am not making any attempt to deny this or keep it quiet (not that I could if I wanted to). It is either scummy or not, and you will either find it a good enough reason to vote for me or not. I am not going to waste my time respond to this particular case again. I would rather look for scum :-/.
Town would respond to a case by defending themselves. R_O seems content to ignore it. Combined with his hammer, consider my vote on R_O.
Again, I doubt gaming the mod is a good idea, regardless of what has been said.
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
Town would respond to a case by defending themselves. R_O seems content to ignore it. Combined with his hammer, consider my vote on R_O.
I'm fine considering it, but why are you not actually voting him?
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
eh i get frustrated easily when i percieve people to be doing stupid things.
I feel like the main drivers of the waogn were probably AI and Ecophagy. Both of those two read very strong town from where i am standing.
But all of Tordeck, RO, And NA I have either neutral or scummy ready on currently.
OK, the question posed to you was "who were the drivers and who were the scummy followers of the HC wagon."
Your answer for the drivers makes no sense. Eco was the first vote, but that was the entirety of his vote. A good vote I would say, but not driving a damn thing. AI haden't even checked in yet, and when he did, was opposed to an HC lynch IIRC. So your other driver didn't even want in the car!
As for the scummy followers: Tordeck voted Vezok, so that doesn't count. R0 voted HC after you did, so IMO, you are just as bad as he. And who is NA? Who do you mean here?
And I'm kinda surprised that after my D1 casing and continued argument with HC that I'm not considered a driver of his lynch. Cause I'm not gonna lie, I really wanted him dead, and I think I still might.
You more though, Vote OneMoreTime.
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..... Tordeck was on yesterday for bad reasons and hasn't gotten back on today.
RO is highly scummy as i have already pointed out.
Eco was on first as you put in. The first vote counts as driving to me.
AI was on that wagon or i've gone crazy! Seriously!
I understand you want him dead but I see those two as driving it more.
Alright brother if your going to start this thing lets get it done as fast as possible so we can get back to hunting real scum. I would like you to look at my D1 behavior and try to explain where that comes from if I am coming from a scum mindset.
If you can manage that and still call me scummy we can go from there.
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One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
As for the R0 case, no matter what anyone says there was no good possible town reason for him to hammer as he did at the end of D1. Doesn't matter how "excited" he was to catch scum. The rest of HC's analysis, though, seems to revolve around R0's lack of explanation for his voting - I don't wholeheartedly agree. It was very difficult to get stuck into the analysis on D1 just because the pace of the game was ridiculous. Leave for a few hours and there's 30 new posts. Difficult to provide tons of content in that kind of environment. Additionally, if I'm reading R0 correctly he basically just flat-out barned Tacky on HC, which given that Tacky has appeared fairly towny is just what an overwhelmed town (overwhelmed by the pace of the game, that is) would do.
The hammer, the post Ace just quoted ("I'll just ignore this nice big bandwagon...", and the post where he said we should not be hunting Sylar, are extremely scummy. The rest of his posts only reinforce that.
I'm not quite sure why we're not offering R_Omega's head to the various Gods. His scummy hammer is more than enough to get us seriously thinking about digging his grave.
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
I noticed this a while ago but I thought it prudent not to mention it. I Wikipedia'd the episode and there are several things it could mean--or maybe nothing.
I don't have much of a read on OneMoreTime I admit, but I really don't see where this bandwagon is coming from. These last few posts are attacking him whenever he misspeaks a little bit. Just because a post isn't correct doesn't mean it's scummy. Can somebody who supports this wagon please find legitimate (behavior-, not semantic-based) evidence against him?
Alright brother if your going to start this thing lets get it done as fast as possible so we can get back to hunting real scum. I would like you to look at my D1 behavior and try to explain where that comes from if I am coming from a scum mindset.
If you can manage that and still call me scummy we can go from there.
It sounds like so many people calling you Obvtown went to your head. The only thing I'm going to look for is how Joboman referenced you. Did he replace in? I can't remember.
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Man this game is moving fast! Let me post my thoughts on the two major wagons that have begun since D2.
r_0mega - I don't really know what a scummy hammer is. Sure it was quick, but so was the whole gorram wagon. I see nothing scummy about hammering jobo, he was caught and cornered obvscum. I will have to /barn TheIceMan about it being rough to post new content in an atmosphere like we have here with so many people so into this game and posting so much. (Not that I'm complaining, I'm loving it!)
HC - The HC wagon was left over from D1 and for good reason. TACKY and others have brought up some good points against him, and I won't try to pass those off as my own - just say I agree with them. My point is regarding this whole slowing down at the end of the jobo wagon in order to create more discussion thing. HC specifically mentions his surprise that jobo is at L-1, implores everyone to slow down and wait til everyone has a chance to weigh in, but doesn't unvote. Why not? It seems odd at how vehemently opposed he was to the day ending "without furthur discussion," but is unwilling to take his own vote off the wagon? Why the inconsistency? Too worried about looking like a waffler to take his vote off his buddy?
Vote: Hunted Charlie
Edit In Post: It seems that while I have been typing this up, OMT has popped out as well. My feelings on this in a bit, vote on HC stands for now though.
I noticed what you said, But what do you want us to do? I don't understand. Are you implying Hiro is scummy?
I am not. But Hiro should (hopefully) understand what I mean.
OMT's response is...interesting. I think I see a similarity. For now, I won't say to what. Also unsure as to how to confirm the similarity without giving anything away.
I'm fine considering it, but why are you not actually voting him?
Until a vote count pops up again, I'm waiting to place my vote. No need for an accidental hammer or pushing him into a place where a hammer is possible from a scum.
Knowledge is power for the town too. Certainly the scum have picked up on it behind the scenes (it is public knowledge after all). No need to hide it and pretend it doesn't exist when scum are probably discussing it at night anyway. This differs from private knowledge such as doc protects and cop results of course, and I hope you see the difference.
r_0mega - I don't really know what a scummy hammer is. Sure it was quick, but so was the whole gorram wagon. I see nothing scummy about hammering jobo, he was caught and cornered obvscum.
Correct. But also, about two-thirds of the game had not even checked in since his wagon got rolling, and very little discussion had taken place. There is never anything positive about ending the day before everybody is satisfied and has had their say.
My point is regarding this whole slowing down at the end of the jobo wagon in order to create more discussion thing. HC specifically mentions his surprise that jobo is at L-1, implores everyone to slow down and wait til everyone has a chance to weigh in, but doesn't unvote. Why not? It seems odd at how vehemently opposed he was to the day ending "without furthur discussion," but is unwilling to take his own vote off the wagon? Why the inconsistency? Too worried about looking like a waffler to take his vote off his buddy?
Jobo was at L-1, as he should have been. Because he was scum and that was obvious. As long as nobody else voted for him (which I specifically requested), he would have remained at L-1 and the day would have continued. There was no real reason that I needed to unvote him, although obviously it would have proven helpful in hindsight to stop red_0mega.
I am not. But Hiro should (hopefully) understand what I mean.
OMT's response is...interesting. I think I see a similarity. For now, I won't say to what. Also unsure as to how to confirm the similarity without giving anything away.
Unless you understand where you're going with these veiled hints and see how it will help the town, I suggest you stop. There's usually no point in telling us that you see things and know things and had things happen to you, but you can't tell us what. We don't gain anything from it, but scum might figure out the hints and find useful information.
Something to take into account but I've been reading Tacky as town.
I also think he's town, but I'm just bringing up the possibility (call it fearmongering if you will) that he's lying. We wouldn't want a repeat of Basic #17.
I also don't think targeting peter is a good idea, because he'll come back...and...just die again. He won't have any time-frame in which to gather abilities before the scum just kill him again.
Peter can be protected by a doctor. Even if we don't have one, the scum will have to WIFOM themselves to decide whether it's worth it to risk killing him or go after an easier target.
I have flavor clues in my PM regarding Peter being the only one who can defeat Sylar. Obviously if we can figure out who Sylar is, we can lynch him, but I must have been given this hint for a reason, perhaps as a backup measure if Sylar kills Claire or something.
Also, I have another reason I'll share later. Remind me when Peter's alive again.
AsianInvasion's doubt in my "story" seems bad. Eco gets the idea, scumhunting, but Asian's doubt seems out of place.
I forgot that your plan had the ultimate goal of scumhunting, probably because I have no idea what your plan is. At any rate I'm not sure how forcing them to keep RBing you does us much good because we're at a standstill regarding vezokpiraka. If we don't lynch him, there's no way the scum would kill him. I guess we could let him live to the endgame and win, but at that point he becomes a liability and could side with the scum at LyoL. If we can vig him, we should.
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
Alright brother if your going to start this thing lets get it done as fast as possible so we can get back to hunting real scum. I would like you to look at my D1 behavior and try to explain where that comes from if I am coming from a scum mindset.
If you can manage that and still call me scummy we can go from there.
This seems very confident. I think OneMoreTime is a relatively new player, so I'm going to say that this is a strong town tell.
Unless you understand where you're going with these veiled hints and see how it will help the town, I suggest you stop. There's usually no point in telling us that you see things and know things and had things happen to you, but you can't tell us what. We don't gain anything from it, but scum might figure out the hints and find useful information.
I agree and find this to be a town tell as well.
Cyouni is breadcrumbing to Jews during Passover; stop feeding us things we can't eat.
Alright brother if your going to start this thing lets get it done as fast as possible so we can get back to hunting real scum. I would like you to look at my D1 behavior and try to explain where that comes from if I am coming from a scum mindset.
Honestly this post does not sound like noob scum at all to me.
I noticed this a while ago but I thought it prudent not to mention it. I Wikipedia'd the episode and there are several things it could mean--or maybe nothing.
Until a vote count pops up again, I'm waiting to place my vote. No need for an accidental hammer or pushing him into a place where a hammer is possible from a scum.
He's at a total of 4 or 5 votes right now. Why not just ask for a votecount in your post?
Knowledge is power for the town too. Certainly the scum have picked up on it behind the scenes (it is public knowledge after all). No need to hide it and pretend it doesn't exist when scum are probably discussing it at night anyway. This differs from private knowledge such as doc protects and cop results of course, and I hope you see the difference.
Even if the scum have picked up on it, who says they know what it means?
Edit In Post: It seems that while I have been typing this up, OMT has popped out as well. My feelings on this in a bit, vote on HC stands for now though.
I believe that the last section feels like something I might have said in Basic #10. Simply because as scum, I felt that there would be nothing that they could use to incriminate me. Unfortunately, explaining the best way to test that would defeat the purpose of testing it in that fashion.
Assuming that someone will be bad as scum simply because it's their first time is a horrible idea.
I believe that the last section feels like something I might have said in Basic #10. Simply because as scum, I felt that there would be nothing that they could use to incriminate me. Unfortunately, explaining the best way to test that would defeat the purpose of testing it in that fashion.
Assuming that someone will be bad as scum simply because it's their first time is a horrible idea.
Was basic #10 your first game, or your first game as scum?
He's at a total of 4 or 5 votes right now. Why not just ask for a votecount in your post?
Looking back, Ace is playing really cautiously with his vote. Seems scummy considering red_0mega isn't anywhere near being lynched. AE might be onto something regarding scum driving the wagon.
I believe that the last section feels like something I might have said in Basic #10. Simply because as scum, I felt that there would be nothing that they could use to incriminate me. Unfortunately, explaining the best way to test that would defeat the purpose of testing it in that fashion.
Assuming that someone will be bad as scum simply because it's their first time is a horrible idea.
It's not bad play I expect from scum so much as less confidence than we've seen from OneMoreTime. I'd be shocked to see first-time scum post so fearlessly and boldly.
"Evolution is an imperfect and often violent process. A battle between what exists and what is yet to be born. In the midst of these birth pains, morality loses its meaning, the question of good and evil reduced to one simple choice: survive or perish."
Players not voting: Ecophagy, StormBlind, TheIceMan, Ace, Cyouni, dracofaust, Syrenz, red_0mega
Please make me aware of any mistakes. Tell me specifically what is wrong. I'm looking at you red_0mega.
There's no going to my head about it. I do not feel that i was even acting scummy and I wish to get back to real scum hunting. Therefore I challenge you to show where what i did comes from a scummy mindset. Not so much a matter of overblown ego as one of confidence.
Also as far as I remember there weren't any replacements.
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One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Well, there's no reason it should be necessary. Because in any rational world with rational players and a rational town, they would know not to speedhammer after being warned or they would get lynched. So being at L-1 would be safe. Unfortunately, even though it shouldn't have been necessary, it apparently was. Because the world just ain't perfect. My mama once said "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get." I think that applies here. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and I now wish I had unvoted.
As I said, I didn't think it should be mentioned. Now that it has been, though, I don't think there's any harm in discussion. The scum can figure it out just as easily as we can, so it's not like we're giving anything away by mentioning it more.
Looking back, Ace is playing really cautiously with his vote. Seems scummy considering red_0mega isn't anywhere near being lynched.
It seems to me like a bit of normal overcautiousness after yesterday's speed-hammer. Note that Ace was also one of the people protesting that in twilight, which makes this kind of behavior more consistent and believable.
First post in the thread is now updated if you don't want to search for alive/dead lists and abilities.
Pictures added for flavor. They've been uploaded to my own photobucket account for hosting as I don't like the little bars at the bottom of posts with pictures uploaded to mtgsalvation. They're ugly. =]
Day 3 might have something special flavor-wise. I haven't decided yet.
Wow..... er that night certainly could have gone better....
In other news hunted charlie is the second scummiest after jobo's horrible performance yesterday. I am happy to vote hunted charlie.
Hey tacky i don't see a reason to kill vezo, he is still a claimed neutral and at least for now it is in his best interests to work with the rest of the town. A truly good neutral can be trusted to act in his own best interests.
Other than that, for today's agenda I would like to see tacky reveal his plan and until somone better comes up I'd love to see HC lynched.
Comes into D2 with a quick, easy vote of HC based (presumably) on reads from D1. Nothing too fishy here except maybe leaving some willingness to hop off the wagon with that last sentence.
This wagon is a bad idea. Lets Lynch RO instead sound good people?
OMT then comes back after HC has amassed a fair number of votes with a big write-up about his thoughts in which he comes to the conclusion that HC is not really scum, but r_0 is instead. I disagree, but that's not enough for me to call him scummy yet.
i dont think HC should claim..... Give everyone on his wagon currently one chance to check in. If he's still at l-2, then make him claim. Till then see if we managed to convince anyone to drop it. I just want a simple check in and a delay of claim until that happens. It only takes one changed mind to stop the horrible claim.
I am surprised here at how opposed he now is to the wagon he was happy to jump on at the start of the day.
you think I'm scum buddies with HC....... wow man.
If you want to call me scummy please provide a case against me in particular, don't just say hey look he agreed with this guy who looks scummy. and honestly i still don't see after looking back how HC is scummy, I would ask people to look back themselves and not jsut trust my opinion on this.
On that note HC didn't stall i stalled for him because his wagon was ridiculous and possibly scum driven. As eco pointed out it did disintegrate as soon as he left it. Or rather as soon as people (not just me) decided to ask people to check in before a vote.
I jumped on to RO after doing a major reread of the entire game before hand and found him to be the scummiest. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Syrenz. Honestly his own comment was so "This is a huge gut read" that i would never base a case on it anyway.
This is OMT defending his position. His arguements are not too solid, and leave a lot of room for wiggling, even if his stance is firm. He says looking back he can't see it - but doesn't show why. He says the wagon was possibly scum driven - but doesn't provide examples (more on this later).
..... i voted him at the beginning of the day because i had a scummy gut read on him and a few people i believe to be solid town had voted him as well. Then i went back to make a case on him myself to get him effectively lynched and realized that there was no reason to make a case. The case was bad!
and FYI... I'M THE ONE DEFENDING HIM!!!!!
This is where things get interesting. Now a wagon that was scum driven a little while ago, suddenly becomes littered with votes from people OMT thought were town? A little confusing, and this is what TACKY picked up on. The second part is stating again how he came to think r_0 is scum instead of HC when he went back. The last line is ironic however, because it's precisely the reason he's under the scope.
I didn't do anything in the night, the only reason I am now wanting to lynch RO is BECAUSE i was on HC's wagon and went back to make a case against him. I found a case on RO instead.
Again reitterating his point. It's not a bad one. I disagree, but he's stayed firm on that at least.
I didn't realize the wagon was ridiculous till I WENT BACK AND LOOKED. sigh, sorry for the many posts AE is frustrating me almost to the point of unreason.
I will contradict myself just once more though. The wagon being scum driven comment was probably a false one. There are scum on his wagon but the original main drivers are mostly town in my opinion.
Here he tries to wrap up some loose strings from his arguement.
There's no going to my head about it. I do not feel that i was even acting scummy and I wish to get back to real scum hunting. Therefore I challenge you to show where what i did comes from a scummy mindset. Not so much a matter of overblown ego as one of confidence.
The wagon was brought around because OMT looks like he's been caught trying to bus his scumbuddy HC, then quickly hop off and try to bus someone else instead. On the surface I agree with this - he was quick to hop on to HC's wagon and even left himself an out when doing so. His arguements against the HC are weak even though his stance is strong, a contradiction I cannot ignore. He didn't seem to think them through at first, didn't bother to check his facts at all, and looks all the scummier in his defense of them now because of it.
The problem I have with the wagon is this: it's all based on HC's alignment. If HC is scum, then it's easy to see this behavior making OMT scum. If HC is actually town, then there's no reason for a scum OMT to be defending him this hard. Now, I happen to think HC is scum, and so by extension I'm seeing OMT as scum in this situation as well. But, I'd be lying if I said I'd be okay lynching OMT in this situation. The case against him certainly has merit, but we should be looking at HC first. After all that, my Vote on HC Stands.
Well it'll stay wrong if you never tell me what's missing.
Hunted Charlie was listed as having 6 votes with only 5 names given. As I said it does not matter much anymore. The main reason I brought it up was because of talk about Hunted Charlie claiming at L-2 (which he was not actually ever at).
Ignoring the fact that there is a confirmed SK is not a good idea though. Right now I think that there's a good chance of finding him just through night actions but he still needs to be looked for.
I never said that I thought we should ignore him, just that he is not my highest priority right now.
Why aren't you really looking for Sylar? You realize that, as an ability thief serial killer, he's probably as large a threat as the mafia?
Wrong. No matter how many abilities he takes, he can still only use one per Night and he is still alone. The mafia have multiple actions and are able to coordinate them. Therefore as long as there is likely to be several of them left out there I would definitely rather concentrate on them.
This is very bad logic. You're saying that whatever Vezok says about you doesn't matter because he's neutral. That's completely false, he can still make valid arguments. And by the way, you should care how you look as town. Because if you get yourself lynched and you really are town, you've wasted a lynch and removed a town player (yourself).
I absolutely do not care what he thinks about me, this has less to do with his role than I implied. He has shown me NO ability to "make valid arguments". If I get lynched it will have been all of you who has removed a town player.
Seriously, at least half of you have never played with me before. Do yourselves a favor and take a look at the last 3 or 4 (or all of for that matter) game that I was in.
I still like r_0 as scum.
Reasons:
1. He denied that cutting a Day short is scummy.
2. He dismissed the wagon against him as nonexistent when there are clearly points against him, then tries deflect against his attackers by implying that people who are voting against him are not contributing to scumhunting.
3. He votes against Hunted Charlie...just to bandwagon? At this point the case against HC is not at all clear.
1) I never said whether it was scummy or not, that is not really for me to decide.
2) I did not dismiss the wagon, I dismissed the case. Which is really just ONE point that I have defended to the best of my ability.
3)The case against Hunted Charlie had been laid out by others. I do not need to reiterate that just to make a vote, particularly when I was continuing the vote from the previous Day.
I didn't do anything in the night, the only reason I am now wanting to lynch RO is BECAUSE i was on HC's wagon and went back to make a case against him. I found a case on RO instead.
You mean you found a wagon forming on me instead and decided to jump on it.
Not much content, but he does fish a little by (mostly jokingly) pointing out what could have been a hidden roleclaim by dracofaust. No reason to point out a pseudo-claim since the person obviously is trying to keep it low-key.
He obviously was not trying to keep it "low-key" or he would not have brought it up in the first place. It is in no way fishing, I certainly did not seem to want any more information.
Finally some real content! A few one-liners without any real content, minor attack on Cyouni. Then, barns TACKY super hard and, with no explanation besides "I think we should give it another day and focus on scum", votes for me.
More minor attacks on Cyouni.
Yes, I agreed with TACKY and voted. If people agree with this PBPA and vote for me would you call them scummy?
In no way did I "attack" anyone, I just wanted clarification.
Now attacking Cyouni for being "defensive" (not really based on Cyouni's posts). Then answers my post of counter-arguments with "I did read it though, and I find your counter-arguments thoroughly unconvincing." Still no content to support his vote.
The fact that your counter-arguments were weak (I am not the only one who said so) IS content to support my vote. As was TACKY's PBPA.
A little unnecessary aggression towards Vezok, and some more aggressive one-liners at jobo.
"Aggression" is not a scum tell.
In only two lines he condemns joboman and hammers him, also saying that he has "sealed his fate". Implying that we should just get this damn bandwagon over with and go to night. Yup, in one two-line post he approves the jobo bandwagon, forgets about the wagon on me, decides that jobo should die without any further discussion, and ignores my warnings not to.
That was not the first time I mentioned joboman's scumminess. I did not in any way forget the wagon on you (as evidenced by my Day 2 vote), just postponed it. To catch scum.
Again, why should I bother to listen to the second scummiest person in the game?
Claims there is nothing else to discuss. This is just false, there is always something to discuss especially when somebody is being speedlynched.
I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.
Jumps right back onto my wagon after other people have warmed it up for him, STILL having never given any justification the entire game, and calls out OneMoreTime at the same time.
Thought I forgot about it?
Defensive crap-logic. Why does his vote need to be analyzed so much? Because it was the one that ended the day.
It was the one that killed scum.
Tries to distract people from his speedlynch by pointing to me looking scummy and the fact that jobo was scum. Neither of which affects the fact that speed-lynching is still scummy. Then does something horribly scummy: says that "there is no case" on him and he is "not going to waste my time respond to this particular case". He's clearly trying to ignore the bandwagon and hope it will go away. And finally, after there's a swarm of unvotes on me, he unvotes me too AGAIN without giving any reasoning of why he is unvoting or even why he was on there in the first place.
How am I trying to "distract" people? By answering their comments? I defended myself on the hammer as best I can, I see no point in repeating myself. I gave a reason for my unvote.
Tries to defend his actions by deflecting our search to the biggest lurkers. And of course, the classic "I am not really looking for [Sylar]" line. SLIP?
Not sure what you are getting at...
Conclusions
1. red_0mega has clearly been lurking. While his number of posts is not unusually low, they are generally lacking in substantial content. However, he has checked in regularly, so is not just forgetting to drop by.
I am clearly NOT lurking. I am posting about as much as I ever have in any game. I am also solidly in the middle of the post count.
2. red_0mega is acting extremely aggressive (without much reasoning). He quickly jumps to propose attacks on people (Cyouni, joboman, Vezok, OneMoreTime, me, all with very little explanation) and tries to build these cases up relatively quickly with very little evidence.
I in no way "attacked" anyone, except for possibly joboman and yourself.
I have not tried to "build a case on anyone". I have used other people's cases. I realize that is not ideal, but is that not the entire point of a PBPA in the first place? To convince others that someone is scum? Why should it then be necessary for everyone to reiterate the same points? Following other's leads is not inherently scummy (but then again niether is hammering scum).
3. red_0mega defends himself against attacks almost solely by ignoring the attacks or deflecting attention at somebody else. He very rarely actually defends himself.
How am I supposed to defend against this:
"That hammer was scummy. You must be scum."
Seriously? I have said everything about it that I can. As I said, you will either find it scummy enough to vote or not. Not much I can do to change your mind at this point.
4. red_0mega has suggested that we not work to hunt Sylar, in fact "[he] is not really looking for [Sylar]." He suggested that the town focus mostly on mafia.
I most certainly did not. I said that I would not be focusing on hunting Sylar right now. In no way did I say that no one else should not, if that is what they think is best.
5. red_0mega has not supported his votes with any reasoning. His only votes are two votes on me and one unvote. All of these came after a crowd had already attacked me, and came without any support whatsoever besides that he liked TACKY's case and didn't believe me.
You forgot my hammer vote, you know, your entire case. Nice.
A decent PBPA and a poor response. What more would you like?
6. red_0mega speed-lynched joboman after being warned not to, with full knowledge of what he was doing. He claimed that nothing else needed to be said in the day, an anti-discussion viewpoint that is therefore anti-town.
Warned not to by someone I was convinced was scum.
RO is highly scummy as i have already pointed out.
Are you really claiming that I was one of the leaders of that wagon?
TL;DR: I doubt that I am going to be able to get through to these tunnel-visioned, one-point-wonders, so go ahead and put me into claim range and hopefully that will do it. N
ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
I don't really feel like sharing at the moment. Rest assured that if I think you need to know, you'll know.
Maybe; that rule is important in general simply because it's bad to talk about ongoing games, especially in a public forum.
Yeah, but I've never seen the role in bold and repeated just after the first death.
Quote from AI »
Peter can be protected by a doctor. Even if we don't have one, the scum will have to WIFOM themselves to decide whether it's worth it to risk killing him or go after an easier target.
I'm not convinced that a standard Doc is in the game. And I'd rather not waste a revive to just get some WIFOM with the scum (although it bringing back Cyan as opposed to a weaker analyst is a point in its favour.)
Quote from AI »
I have flavor clues in my PM regarding Peter being the only one who can defeat Sylar. Obviously if we can figure out who Sylar is, we can lynch him, but I must have been given this hint for a reason, perhaps as a backup measure if Sylar kills Claire or something.
Also, I have another reason I'll share later. Remind me when Peter's alive again.
While this is plausible, as NA said yesterday - if there is exactly one solution to a problem, we're not really playing mafia anymore. I therefore do not feel that we cannot overcome Sylar without Peter.
Quote from AI »
There are reasons for what I do. Besides, it's not like you didn't say essentially the same thing yourself.
Sure, but I'd rather not have it heavily implied that the role is scum. I doubt he'd claim his role now.
Aside: now that AlphaInsidious is dead, we can use AI without ambiguity. Joy.
On OMT: I got a very strong town read on him yesterday, and still don't really see what all the fuss is about today.
Wrong. No matter how many abilities he takes, he can still only use one per Night and he is still alone. The mafia have multiple actions and are able to coordinate them. Therefore as long as there is likely to be several of them left out there I would definitely rather concentrate on them.
Epic slip. How can you know what Sylar can do with his abilities?
Please lynch this guy.
Also you're entire not look for sylar is wrong. You see if we lynch Sylar there is one less kill. If we try to lynch the mafia then we need at least 3-5 days.
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6) Players may not use two abilities in the same period (meaning night and day), unless otherwise stated. The only type of ability exempt from this is a Passive ability.
I think a good place to look for Sylar would be in the bottom quarter of the post count, but then again I am not really looking for him.
While I can see where people are going, what is the scum motivation to say something like this? As Sylar is clearly the best-known character from the show (and talking about him in such a way is clear to provoke a reaction), making a suspect statement like this does nothing but draw attention to R0, clearly something neither Sylar nor mafia wants.
Quote from red_0mega »
I most certainly did not. I said that I would not be focusing on hunting Sylar right now. In no way did I say that no one else should not, if that is what they think is best.
Wait, what? You said you wouldn't be focusing on Sylar but told the town where they should be looking for him.
On the hammer:
It was the one that killed scum.
Warned not to by someone I was convinced was scum.
Classic strawman. Whether or not you thought HC was scummy is completely irrelevant. That jobo flipped scum is also completely irrelevant. The fact is you knew the lynch was developing very quickly, you know that more discussion always helps the town. Yet you still hammered. Why are you struggling to defend yourself from this and telling us there's nothing more to say? Because it's unequivocally scummy and there's nothing you can do to change that.
TL;DR: I doubt that I am going to be able to get through to these tunnel-visioned, one-point-wonders, so go ahead and put me into claim range and hopefully that will do it. N
ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
The last two sentences are self-contradictory and just look like you're trying to cover your ass. You want to claim, yet you don't want to claim? That you're repeatedly minimizing the case as you do here doesn't make me like you any better either.
Hammering early isn't usually good for the town, but I think an anti-town player is far less likely than a town player to hammer early (the anti-town is going to be cautious). It's of course WIFOM, but so is wanting to lynch him for making such a hammer.
I agree that he's more likely to by Sylar than scum--I see it almost impossible for him to be scum--but I don't think him being Sylar is all that likely. And more than that, going after a character who isn't likely to be scum is foolish--not because Sylar isn't a threat, but because we have significantly lower odds of hitting.
Finally, I went back and found a game Red_Omega was town in, and his posts during his lynch in Joss Weaton Mafia didn't seem to be considerably different than his posts here.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Hammering early isn't usually good for the town, but I think an anti-town player is far less likely than a town player to hammer early (the anti-town is going to be cautious). It's of course WIFOM, but so is wanting to lynch him for making such a hammer.
I can think of at least one example where an anti-town player did this. Take DV in Inter-dimensional Fleet Mafia. DV is maybe not the best example, but still...
I still think our best lead will be to analyze jobo's Day 1 play to find interactions with his scumbuddies. I'm pretty crap at analysis but yeah that post I quoted earlier still jumps out at me as a telling blow against HC.
@OneMoreTime wagon: I agree all of this ambiguity regarding my case is suspect. However it looks like a one-point wagon, nobody is pulling out any other evidence against him. Therefore I think we should let this rest, unless he does something else which makes a case against him more substantial.
Wrong. No matter how many abilities he takes, he can still only use one per Night and he is still alone. The mafia have multiple actions and are able to coordinate them. Therefore as long as there is likely to be several of them left out there I would definitely rather concentrate on them.
Where are you getting this? There is no reason to assume that he can only use one per night, that was what Peter could do but they don't necessarily have the same role. And by the way, you don't know how many actions the mafia have (ever heard of "vanilla mafia"?). So this is a terrible argument. If we kill Sylar today, there will be one less nightkill tonight. If we kill a mafia member today, there will be the same number of nightkills. So it makes the most sense to kill Sylar early.
Yes, I agreed with TACKY and voted. If people agree with this PBPA and vote for me would you call them scummy?
[...]
The fact that your counter-arguments were weak (I am not the only one who said so) IS content to support my vote. As was TACKY's PBPA.
Well, if you don't tell us WHY TACKY's PBPA was strong or WHY you didn't think my counter-arguments were valid, the discussion won't go anywhere. Respond to my points if you don't like them. The town thrives on discussion; a debate goes nowhere if most participants just say "I agree" or "I disagree".
Again, why should I bother to listen to the second scummiest person in the game?
Again, you are deflecting attention away from yourself to avoid dealing with suspicion. It doesn't matter what you think of me, my arguments can still be just as valid and it doesn't help the town to tune me out after you give me your initial judgment.
I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.
You forgot my hammer vote, you know, your entire case. Nice.
A decent PBPA and a poor response. What more would you like?
Yes, I forgot the hammer vote in that list. Does not change the argument at all. If you think the PBPA was decent and my response was poor, please go ahead and explain point-by-point why my logic is faulty.
Warned not to by someone I was convinced was scum.
So? Use logic. There is no reason that not hammering jobo right then could have helped the scum. All that would have happened is we would have had more time for discussion.
TL;DR: I doubt that I am going to be able to get through to these tunnel-visioned, one-point-wonders, so go ahead and put me into claim range and hopefully that will do it. N
ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
Again, you are trying to play the town's emotions. "I'm really really town guys, and I know you don't want me to claim..."
Epic slip. How can you know what Sylar can do with his abilities?
Please lynch this guy.
Also you're entire not look for sylar is wrong. You see if we lynch Sylar there is one less kill. If we try to lynch the mafia then we need at least 3-5 days.
It says players cannot use more than one ability per night unless he states otherwise. Sylar could easily be that exception. The point is we don't know, so how does red_0mega?
Looking back at Anita Blake mafia, I realized that Joboman is actually a busser (explanation below). That and his terrible "RO is the SK" logic made me take a proper look at HC.
One more thought: OneMoreTime's posts #64 and #65 smell scummy too. They're calling attention away from the discussion to other players. "Hey look, a distraction!"
Early mudflinging. Says OMT's post are a distraction from something. He's been asked what this distraction is repeatedly and I believe he has still not answered that. It's just an attack on OMT for no reason.
On joboman: I agree he's sorta just barning and staying quiet. Could just mean he's busy, but since we don't really have a ton of strong leads right now I guess he's the best we've got. Wagon I suppose?
Proof is impossible in a discussion-based game like this, and evidence is continually building from Day 1. Stronger cases can be made as the game goes on. Therefore, the decision of where to hunt is not based on finding a perfect case but on finding the best possible case at that time. Jobo was the best possible case at that time.
"Jobo was the best possible case at that time." yep it certainly was a great case at that time: "he's barning and staying quiet, maybe he's busy, wagon I suppose?"
His case on Joboman was very weak and honestly coupled with the fact that he did not actually vote until he was asked about why he didn't, this looks to me like a simple attempt to distance himself from a scumbuddy.
Indifferent? I suggested we start a bandwagon on him. I forgot to vote and quickly remedied my error.
Looking at the tone of the original post, it's a very wishy washy noncommital post. I cannot see the place that would have been meant for the vote he supposedly forgot. Look:
On joboman: I agree he's sorta just barning and staying quiet. Could just mean he's busy, but since we don't really have a ton of strong leads right now I guess he's the best we've got. Wagon I suppose? Unvote, Vote Joboman
It just does not feel right at all and he did not intend to have a vote in that post like he implied.
Anyway, I think the case against me is unquestionably weak but it is true that our other options are limited. It seems like me, Zevok, and joboman are the three possibilities at this point. If I have indeed misunderstood Zevok's claim, he could be a good potential lynch.
Considers Vezok a good potential lynch here now that it looks like he might be lynched.
Cyan and Wolf are scum-buddies? Well thats good. They back up each others cases and defend eachother. Cyan also attacks me when I attack wolf. Deflection. Cyan knows that my first real vote was on wolf, all the other were randddomms. If you think i'm jumpy now, look at asterix mafia where I vote like... 3 times in the first three posts? i dunno. and i was town thar.
The reason that I've been at L-1 twice is that this wagon is obviously scum-driven.
I doubt any more scum could even hammer me.
And my post above has absolutely nothing to do with defending seppel.
Cyan is just getting rediculous. According to Zaj's list I'm the only scum in this game...
Unvote, Vote: Cyan
I'd be willing to vote Zaj if need be.
There are a ton of posts like these ones there. Joboman has not yet been succesful in bussing a buddy to lynch, but he certainly has tried and is in fact a busser.
Unvote, Vote Hunted Charlie
___
@Ace: What are some games that you have played in?
As far as Joboman not being a busser, he actually is one. He's just not that succesful at it.
Take a look at Anita Blake mafia his whole back and forth with Cyan.
There are a ton of posts like these ones there. Joboman has not yet been succesful in bussing a buddy to lynch, but he certainly has tried and is in fact a busser.
Unvote, Vote Hunted Charlie
Wait. Cyan was mafia in that one? Oops. Got two games confused.
Anyways, after a quick reread, my point still stands. It took joboman two L-1's to vote for Cyan, who he'd been calling scum the whole game. He called Cyan scum on page 6 (15 ppp). He voted on page 24, and then proceeded to move his vote to Cantripmancer (town) a few pages later, on page 30. He also never actually pushed the wagon. He voted, defended it once, and then moved on to Cantrip.
It's not at all like the H_C scenario, which I believe reads more like joboman's style of opportunism. In this case, he voted early as soon as some pressure hit H_C and tried to push a speedlynch.
Early mudflinging. Says OMT's post are a distraction from something. He's been asked what this distraction is repeatedly and I believe he has still not answered that. It's just an attack on OMT for no reason.
I've already dealt with this earlier. It was near the beginning of the game and my argument was not intended to seem as powerful as it obviously came across.
"Jobo was the best possible case at that time." yep it certainly was a great case at that time: "he's barning and staying quiet, maybe he's busy, wagon I suppose?"
Yes, at the time the jobo wagon was the strongest based on his history of barning, lurking, and fence-sitting. And, if I recall correctly, I was right on that one.
Looking at the tone of the original post, it's a very wishy washy noncommital post. I cannot see the place that would have been meant for the vote he supposedly forgot. Look:
It just does not feel right at all and he did not intend to have a vote in that post like he implied.
Right, there's no place where it fit in nicely. That's probably why I forgot to put it in there. And by the way, I think people are incorrectly assuming the question mark after "wagon" makes it noncommittal. If you think about it the way I did it doesn't necessarily mean that. Consider if you call somebody up and say "Party tonight?". That's not a weak way of saying it, it's just a different way of phrasing.
Hunted Charlie is now pursuing the RO wagon with terrible logic to say that RO is Sylar and get a lynch that is not himself. Like seriously:
This is so terrible it hurts. Was there a reason you completely ignored Ecophagy's explanation a couple posts above?
I don't understand how three words indicating agreement with a post can be "so terrible it hurts", especially since I DID address Ecophagy's explanation. Explain?
nvm, you responded to that. With even worse of an argument.
Please tell me how what I said was in any way logically inaccurate. Calling anything I say a bad argument doesn't make it true. The mod said that one ability could be used each day, except if he says otherwise. And he could well have said otherwise. Therefore we still know nothing about Sylar's ability (besides that he is almost certainly a power-stealing serial killer). What is wrong with this argument?
Never should have gone against my D1 thoughts. That's what I get for harboring a WIFOM gnome from the cold with the empty space in my noggin. He pays good rent though...
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Never should have gone against my D1 thoughts. That's what I get for harboring a WIFOM gnome from the cold with the empty space in my noggin. He pays good rent though...
You're last response is terribad. And your prod on me was well expected. That's why.
If you condemn me as scum without any specifics on your reasoning, I cannot argue back. This is fine if the goal really is just to lynch me. I will lynch just as well whether or not I am talking. However, if the goal is to produce a debate that will increase the town's chance of accurately finding and lynching scum, this is not acceptable. Since you probably want to lynch scum and not just lynch me regardless of my alignment, some reasoning is probably best. Debate is good. Debate and discussion produce evidence.
hey DKD, a bus on somone is desribed as attacking them when other people are already on them, usually done to a scumbuddy. Seeing as I was the first one attacking RO would you care to explain how i was bussing him?
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One becomes nothing
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
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Uh...I think the whole "DON'T TALK TO PEOPLE ONCE YOU'VE DIED" rule being beaten into us is a slightly more obvious clue.
I also don't think targeting peter is a good idea, because he'll come back...and...just die again. He won't have any time-frame in which to gather abilities before the scum just kill him again.
Why do you want Peter back?
That's a lot of WIFOM. Especially since TACKY said his plan was mostly to catch scum, not to deal with Vezo. Stands to reason the scum would stop it.
Must you say things like this?
The bold part. Makes no sense. Why? Earlier you said that you thought the wagon might be scum driven, but that's a flip from your supposed reasoning when you jumped aboard.
So, now that you have "looked back" at the beginning of the day, which was not too long ago mind you, who do you think is scum driving that wagon and why? Your flip is really quick too, which makes me feel more like this is all a sham.
In other news, I'm not sure I buy the R0 case, but I'll wait for R0's response to expand more.
AsianInvasion's doubt in my "story" seems bad. Eco gets the idea, scumhunting, but Asian's doubt seems out of place.
If HC does end up being the lynch today, it will say a lot about OMT. Going to reread the end of D1.
As for the R0 case, no matter what anyone says there was no good possible town reason for him to hammer as he did at the end of D1. Doesn't matter how "excited" he was to catch scum. The rest of HC's analysis, though, seems to revolve around R0's lack of explanation for his voting - I don't wholeheartedly agree. It was very difficult to get stuck into the analysis on D1 just because the pace of the game was ridiculous. Leave for a few hours and there's 30 new posts. Difficult to provide tons of content in that kind of environment. Additionally, if I'm reading R0 correctly he basically just flat-out barned Tacky on HC, which given that Tacky has appeared fairly towny is just what an overwhelmed town (overwhelmed by the pace of the game, that is) would do.
Damn Tacky I overlooked that. Yeah its a scum driving wagon but a few people he believe to be solid town had voted. Flail.
Your caught. Your either defending your buddy and distracting to another player or you know HC will flip town so you want to look good.
Tackys town
HC not so much
OMT obvscum
Unvote HC
Vote OneMoreTime.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Yeah, I considered it, but that's the scum digging their own grave. They roleblock me and not only do they have a chance at ending the whole game and losing, but they waste an RB on me. It leaves them open to investigations, possible Doc's protecting their kill etc.
So, yeah, I knew about an RB, but it's an incredible disadvantage to the scum to block me. I guess I didn't think they would be so naive.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Found, but...
You correct yourself without details. You still say there are scum on the wagon, so who and how? And who are the main drivers in your opinion? Using undefined terms leaves excuses for you later on, so define your terms sir.
Also, your massive frustration in four minutes time (first post timestampes at 3:48, last at 3:51) seems unfounded.
I feel like the main drivers of the waogn were probably AI and Ecophagy. Both of those two read very strong town from where i am standing.
But all of Tordeck, RO, And NA I have either neutral or scummy ready on currently.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
I'm not quite sure why we're not offering R_Omega's head to the various Gods. His scummy hammer is more than enough to get us seriously thinking about digging his grave.
This is by far his most scummiest post in game (barring the hammer):
Town would respond to a case by defending themselves. R_O seems content to ignore it. Combined with his hammer, consider my vote on R_O.
Again, I doubt gaming the mod is a good idea, regardless of what has been said.
Also, something I wanted to say earlier but plum forgot: Ecophagy: Why is your number listed as .07? Obviously a reference to .07% (episode and concept). Surely this must have relevance is some way.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
I'm fine considering it, but why are you not actually voting him?
Is there a need to know this?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Eco's first aboard.
Tordeck doesn't even vote HC. I don't think he has! Get to that later.
Second on board, followed by me.
Fourth, and here I stop counting.
OK, the question posed to you was "who were the drivers and who were the scummy followers of the HC wagon."
Your answer for the drivers makes no sense. Eco was the first vote, but that was the entirety of his vote. A good vote I would say, but not driving a damn thing. AI haden't even checked in yet, and when he did, was opposed to an HC lynch IIRC. So your other driver didn't even want in the car!
As for the scummy followers: Tordeck voted Vezok, so that doesn't count. R0 voted HC after you did, so IMO, you are just as bad as he. And who is NA? Who do you mean here?
And I'm kinda surprised that after my D1 casing and continued argument with HC that I'm not considered a driver of his lynch. Cause I'm not gonna lie, I really wanted him dead, and I think I still might.
You more though, Vote OneMoreTime.
RO is highly scummy as i have already pointed out.
Eco was on first as you put in. The first vote counts as driving to me.
AI was on that wagon or i've gone crazy! Seriously!
I understand you want him dead but I see those two as driving it more.
Alright brother if your going to start this thing lets get it done as fast as possible so we can get back to hunting real scum. I would like you to look at my D1 behavior and try to explain where that comes from if I am coming from a scum mindset.
If you can manage that and still call me scummy we can go from there.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Yes.
I noticed this a while ago but I thought it prudent not to mention it. I Wikipedia'd the episode and there are several things it could mean--or maybe nothing.
I don't have much of a read on OneMoreTime I admit, but I really don't see where this bandwagon is coming from. These last few posts are attacking him whenever he misspeaks a little bit. Just because a post isn't correct doesn't mean it's scummy. Can somebody who supports this wagon please find legitimate (behavior-, not semantic-based) evidence against him?
It sounds like so many people calling you Obvtown went to your head. The only thing I'm going to look for is how Joboman referenced you. Did he replace in? I can't remember.
r_0mega - I don't really know what a scummy hammer is. Sure it was quick, but so was the whole gorram wagon. I see nothing scummy about hammering jobo, he was caught and cornered obvscum. I will have to /barn TheIceMan about it being rough to post new content in an atmosphere like we have here with so many people so into this game and posting so much. (Not that I'm complaining, I'm loving it!)
HC - The HC wagon was left over from D1 and for good reason. TACKY and others have brought up some good points against him, and I won't try to pass those off as my own - just say I agree with them. My point is regarding this whole slowing down at the end of the jobo wagon in order to create more discussion thing. HC specifically mentions his surprise that jobo is at L-1, implores everyone to slow down and wait til everyone has a chance to weigh in, but doesn't unvote. Why not? It seems odd at how vehemently opposed he was to the day ending "without furthur discussion," but is unwilling to take his own vote off the wagon? Why the inconsistency? Too worried about looking like a waffler to take his vote off his buddy?
Vote: Hunted Charlie
Edit In Post: It seems that while I have been typing this up, OMT has popped out as well. My feelings on this in a bit, vote on HC stands for now though.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
OMT's response is...interesting. I think I see a similarity. For now, I won't say to what. Also unsure as to how to confirm the similarity without giving anything away.
Until a vote count pops up again, I'm waiting to place my vote. No need for an accidental hammer or pushing him into a place where a hammer is possible from a scum.
Knowledge is power for the town too. Certainly the scum have picked up on it behind the scenes (it is public knowledge after all). No need to hide it and pretend it doesn't exist when scum are probably discussing it at night anyway. This differs from private knowledge such as doc protects and cop results of course, and I hope you see the difference.
Jobo was at L-1, as he should have been. Because he was scum and that was obvious. As long as nobody else voted for him (which I specifically requested), he would have remained at L-1 and the day would have continued. There was no real reason that I needed to unvote him, although obviously it would have proven helpful in hindsight to stop red_0mega.
Unless you understand where you're going with these veiled hints and see how it will help the town, I suggest you stop. There's usually no point in telling us that you see things and know things and had things happen to you, but you can't tell us what. We don't gain anything from it, but scum might figure out the hints and find useful information.
I also think he's town, but I'm just bringing up the possibility (call it fearmongering if you will) that he's lying. We wouldn't want a repeat of Basic #17.
I think he's guilty of expressing his thoughts poorly, as opposed to guilty of being scum.
Maybe; that rule is important in general simply because it's bad to talk about ongoing games, especially in a public forum.
Peter can be protected by a doctor. Even if we don't have one, the scum will have to WIFOM themselves to decide whether it's worth it to risk killing him or go after an easier target.
I have flavor clues in my PM regarding Peter being the only one who can defeat Sylar. Obviously if we can figure out who Sylar is, we can lynch him, but I must have been given this hint for a reason, perhaps as a backup measure if Sylar kills Claire or something.
Also, I have another reason I'll share later. Remind me when Peter's alive again.
Food for thought; I'm not suggesting that it's the most likely option. Also, I forgot that TACKY said that.
There are reasons for what I do. Besides, it's not like you didn't say essentially the same thing yourself.
I forgot that your plan had the ultimate goal of scumhunting, probably because I have no idea what your plan is. At any rate I'm not sure how forcing them to keep RBing you does us much good because we're at a standstill regarding vezokpiraka. If we don't lynch him, there's no way the scum would kill him. I guess we could let him live to the endgame and win, but at that point he becomes a liability and could side with the scum at LyoL. If we can vig him, we should.
I agree with Ace would agrees with me.
But I'm not a fan of the :fish:.
D1, yes. D2, no.
This seems very confident. I think OneMoreTime is a relatively new player, so I'm going to say that this is a strong town tell.
I agree and find this to be a town tell as well.
Cyouni is breadcrumbing to Jews during Passover; stop feeding us things we can't eat.
So, there's no reason, but it would've helped...
How does that make any sense at all?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Honestly this post does not sound like noob scum at all to me.
There's no need to talk about it further.
He's at a total of 4 or 5 votes right now. Why not just ask for a votecount in your post?
Even if the scum have picked up on it, who says they know what it means?
yep
feelings on OMT?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Still working on it, need to go back and look at some things. Short posts are easier here at work, I promise to lay 'em out tonight though.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Assuming that someone will be bad as scum simply because it's their first time is a horrible idea.
Was basic #10 your first game, or your first game as scum?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Looking back, Ace is playing really cautiously with his vote. Seems scummy considering red_0mega isn't anywhere near being lynched. AE might be onto something regarding scum driving the wagon.
It's not bad play I expect from scum so much as less confidence than we've seen from OneMoreTime. I'd be shocked to see first-time scum post so fearlessly and boldly.
Official Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 9
Hunted_Charlie - 4 - tordeck, Nom_Anor, Wrath_of_DoG, dropkickdude - (L-5)
red_0mega - 4 - OneMoreTime, Hunted_Charlie, AsianInvasion, vezokpiraka - (L-5)
OneMoreTime - 2 - Archmage_Eternal, TACKY - (L-7)
Players not voting: Ecophagy, StormBlind, TheIceMan, Ace, Cyouni, dracofaust, Syrenz, red_0mega
Please make me aware of any mistakes. Tell me specifically what is wrong. I'm looking at you red_0mega.
Also as far as I remember there weren't any replacements.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Well, there's no reason it should be necessary. Because in any rational world with rational players and a rational town, they would know not to speedhammer after being warned or they would get lynched. So being at L-1 would be safe. Unfortunately, even though it shouldn't have been necessary, it apparently was. Because the world just ain't perfect. My mama once said "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get." I think that applies here. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and I now wish I had unvoted.
As I said, I didn't think it should be mentioned. Now that it has been, though, I don't think there's any harm in discussion. The scum can figure it out just as easily as we can, so it's not like we're giving anything away by mentioning it more.
It seems to me like a bit of normal overcautiousness after yesterday's speed-hammer. Note that Ace was also one of the people protesting that in twilight, which makes this kind of behavior more consistent and believable.
If this helps anyone I was killed rather early but in my only completed game (tales of vesperia) I was town.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"
Pictures added for flavor. They've been uploaded to my own photobucket account for hosting as I don't like the little bars at the bottom of posts with pictures uploaded to mtgsalvation. They're ugly. =]
Day 3 might have something special flavor-wise. I haven't decided yet.
Continue on.
Comes into D2 with a quick, easy vote of HC based (presumably) on reads from D1. Nothing too fishy here except maybe leaving some willingness to hop off the wagon with that last sentence.
OMT then comes back after HC has amassed a fair number of votes with a big write-up about his thoughts in which he comes to the conclusion that HC is not really scum, but r_0 is instead. I disagree, but that's not enough for me to call him scummy yet.
I am surprised here at how opposed he now is to the wagon he was happy to jump on at the start of the day.
This is OMT defending his position. His arguements are not too solid, and leave a lot of room for wiggling, even if his stance is firm. He says looking back he can't see it - but doesn't show why. He says the wagon was possibly scum driven - but doesn't provide examples (more on this later).
This is where things get interesting. Now a wagon that was scum driven a little while ago, suddenly becomes littered with votes from people OMT thought were town? A little confusing, and this is what TACKY picked up on. The second part is stating again how he came to think r_0 is scum instead of HC when he went back. The last line is ironic however, because it's precisely the reason he's under the scope.
Again reitterating his point. It's not a bad one. I disagree, but he's stayed firm on that at least.
Here he tries to wrap up some loose strings from his arguement.
Righteous Anger
Again, feelings and open-ended arguements, zero solid facts.
The wagon was brought around because OMT looks like he's been caught trying to bus his scumbuddy HC, then quickly hop off and try to bus someone else instead. On the surface I agree with this - he was quick to hop on to HC's wagon and even left himself an out when doing so. His arguements against the HC are weak even though his stance is strong, a contradiction I cannot ignore. He didn't seem to think them through at first, didn't bother to check his facts at all, and looks all the scummier in his defense of them now because of it.
The problem I have with the wagon is this: it's all based on HC's alignment. If HC is scum, then it's easy to see this behavior making OMT scum. If HC is actually town, then there's no reason for a scum OMT to be defending him this hard. Now, I happen to think HC is scum, and so by extension I'm seeing OMT as scum in this situation as well. But, I'd be lying if I said I'd be okay lynching OMT in this situation. The case against him certainly has merit, but we should be looking at HC first. After all that, my Vote on HC Stands.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Hunted Charlie was listed as having 6 votes with only 5 names given. As I said it does not matter much anymore. The main reason I brought it up was because of talk about Hunted Charlie claiming at L-2 (which he was not actually ever at).
I never said that I thought we should ignore him, just that he is not my highest priority right now.
Wrong. No matter how many abilities he takes, he can still only use one per Night and he is still alone. The mafia have multiple actions and are able to coordinate them. Therefore as long as there is likely to be several of them left out there I would definitely rather concentrate on them.
I absolutely do not care what he thinks about me, this has less to do with his role than I implied. He has shown me NO ability to "make valid arguments". If I get lynched it will have been all of you who has removed a town player.
Seriously, at least half of you have never played with me before. Do yourselves a favor and take a look at the last 3 or 4 (or all of for that matter) game that I was in.
1) I never said whether it was scummy or not, that is not really for me to decide.
2) I did not dismiss the wagon, I dismissed the case. Which is really just ONE point that I have defended to the best of my ability.
3)The case against Hunted Charlie had been laid out by others. I do not need to reiterate that just to make a vote, particularly when I was continuing the vote from the previous Day.
You mean you found a wagon forming on me instead and decided to jump on it.
He obviously was not trying to keep it "low-key" or he would not have brought it up in the first place. It is in no way fishing, I certainly did not seem to want any more information.
Yes, I agreed with TACKY and voted. If people agree with this PBPA and vote for me would you call them scummy?
In no way did I "attack" anyone, I just wanted clarification.
The fact that your counter-arguments were weak (I am not the only one who said so) IS content to support my vote. As was TACKY's PBPA.
"Aggression" is not a scum tell.
That was not the first time I mentioned joboman's scumminess. I did not in any way forget the wagon on you (as evidenced by my Day 2 vote), just postponed it. To catch scum.
Again, why should I bother to listen to the second scummiest person in the game?
I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.
Thought I forgot about it?
It was the one that killed scum.
How am I trying to "distract" people? By answering their comments? I defended myself on the hammer as best I can, I see no point in repeating myself. I gave a reason for my unvote.
Not sure what you are getting at...
I am clearly NOT lurking. I am posting about as much as I ever have in any game. I am also solidly in the middle of the post count.
I in no way "attacked" anyone, except for possibly joboman and yourself.
I have not tried to "build a case on anyone". I have used other people's cases. I realize that is not ideal, but is that not the entire point of a PBPA in the first place? To convince others that someone is scum? Why should it then be necessary for everyone to reiterate the same points? Following other's leads is not inherently scummy (but then again niether is hammering scum).
How am I supposed to defend against this:
"That hammer was scummy. You must be scum."
Seriously? I have said everything about it that I can. As I said, you will either find it scummy enough to vote or not. Not much I can do to change your mind at this point.
I most certainly did not. I said that I would not be focusing on hunting Sylar right now. In no way did I say that no one else should not, if that is what they think is best.
You forgot my hammer vote, you know, your entire case. Nice.
A decent PBPA and a poor response. What more would you like?
Warned not to by someone I was convinced was scum.
How am I not defending myself? I simply refuse to respond to the same thing several times.
Are you really claiming that I was one of the leaders of that wagon?
TL;DR: I doubt that I am going to be able to get through to these tunnel-visioned, one-point-wonders, so go ahead and put me into claim range and hopefully that will do it. N
ot that I want to claim, but if it will get these people off of my back...
smoke_Killah
I don't really feel like sharing at the moment. Rest assured that if I think you need to know, you'll know.
Yeah, but I've never seen the role in bold and repeated just after the first death.
I'm not convinced that a standard Doc is in the game. And I'd rather not waste a revive to just get some WIFOM with the scum (although it bringing back Cyan as opposed to a weaker analyst is a point in its favour.)
While this is plausible, as NA said yesterday - if there is exactly one solution to a problem, we're not really playing mafia anymore. I therefore do not feel that we cannot overcome Sylar without Peter.
Sure, but I'd rather not have it heavily implied that the role is scum. I doubt he'd claim his role now.
Aside: now that AlphaInsidious is dead, we can use AI without ambiguity. Joy.
On OMT: I got a very strong town read on him yesterday, and still don't really see what all the fuss is about today.
Epic slip. How can you know what Sylar can do with his abilities?
Please lynch this guy.
Also you're entire not look for sylar is wrong. You see if we lynch Sylar there is one less kill. If we try to lynch the mafia then we need at least 3-5 days.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
The original quote was this:
While I can see where people are going, what is the scum motivation to say something like this? As Sylar is clearly the best-known character from the show (and talking about him in such a way is clear to provoke a reaction), making a suspect statement like this does nothing but draw attention to R0, clearly something neither Sylar nor mafia wants.
Wait, what? You said you wouldn't be focusing on Sylar but told the town where they should be looking for him.
On the hammer:
Classic strawman. Whether or not you thought HC was scummy is completely irrelevant. That jobo flipped scum is also completely irrelevant. The fact is you knew the lynch was developing very quickly, you know that more discussion always helps the town. Yet you still hammered. Why are you struggling to defend yourself from this and telling us there's nothing more to say? Because it's unequivocally scummy and there's nothing you can do to change that.
The last two sentences are self-contradictory and just look like you're trying to cover your ass. You want to claim, yet you don't want to claim? That you're repeatedly minimizing the case as you do here doesn't make me like you any better either.
Vote: red_0mega
Hammering early isn't usually good for the town, but I think an anti-town player is far less likely than a town player to hammer early (the anti-town is going to be cautious). It's of course WIFOM, but so is wanting to lynch him for making such a hammer.
I agree that he's more likely to by Sylar than scum--I see it almost impossible for him to be scum--but I don't think him being Sylar is all that likely. And more than that, going after a character who isn't likely to be scum is foolish--not because Sylar isn't a threat, but because we have significantly lower odds of hitting.
Finally, I went back and found a game Red_Omega was town in, and his posts during his lynch in Joss Weaton Mafia didn't seem to be considerably different than his posts here.
So yeah, still against his wagon.
I still think our best lead will be to analyze jobo's Day 1 play to find interactions with his scumbuddies. I'm pretty crap at analysis but yeah that post I quoted earlier still jumps out at me as a telling blow against HC.
Where are you getting this? There is no reason to assume that he can only use one per night, that was what Peter could do but they don't necessarily have the same role. And by the way, you don't know how many actions the mafia have (ever heard of "vanilla mafia"?). So this is a terrible argument. If we kill Sylar today, there will be one less nightkill tonight. If we kill a mafia member today, there will be the same number of nightkills. So it makes the most sense to kill Sylar early.
This is pretty much just a play on our emotions. If you get lynched, we will probably have eliminated Sylar.
Well, if you don't tell us WHY TACKY's PBPA was strong or WHY you didn't think my counter-arguments were valid, the discussion won't go anywhere. Respond to my points if you don't like them. The town thrives on discussion; a debate goes nowhere if most participants just say "I agree" or "I disagree".
Not necessarily, but scum do tend to be aggressive to try to get a quicker lynch. Because again, night-time is the scum's domain.
Again, you are deflecting attention away from yourself to avoid dealing with suspicion. It doesn't matter what you think of me, my arguments can still be just as valid and it doesn't help the town to tune me out after you give me your initial judgment.
I admitted that it was probably a bad idea. Nothing I can do about it now.
Yes, I forgot the hammer vote in that list. Does not change the argument at all. If you think the PBPA was decent and my response was poor, please go ahead and explain point-by-point why my logic is faulty.
So? Use logic. There is no reason that not hammering jobo right then could have helped the scum. All that would have happened is we would have had more time for discussion.
Again, you are trying to play the town's emotions. "I'm really really town guys, and I know you don't want me to claim..."
Perfect explanation, agreed.
It says players cannot use more than one ability per night unless he states otherwise. Sylar could easily be that exception. The point is we don't know, so how does red_0mega?
Early mudflinging. Says OMT's post are a distraction from something. He's been asked what this distraction is repeatedly and I believe he has still not answered that. It's just an attack on OMT for no reason.
"Jobo was the best possible case at that time." yep it certainly was a great case at that time: "he's barning and staying quiet, maybe he's busy, wagon I suppose?"
His case on Joboman was very weak and honestly coupled with the fact that he did not actually vote until he was asked about why he didn't, this looks to me like a simple attempt to distance himself from a scumbuddy.
Looking at the tone of the original post, it's a very wishy washy noncommital post. I cannot see the place that would have been meant for the vote he supposedly forgot. Look:
It just does not feel right at all and he did not intend to have a vote in that post like he implied.
Considers Vezok a good potential lynch here now that it looks like he might be lynched.
Jumps on the wagon alternate to his own. Like he's done on D1.
Hunted Charlie is now pursuing the RO wagon with terrible logic to say that RO is Sylar and get a lynch that is not himself. Like seriously:
This is so terrible it hurts. Was there a reason you completely ignored Ecophagy's explanation a couple posts above?
As far as Joboman not being a busser, he actually is one. He's just not that succesful at it.
Take a look at Anita Blake mafia his whole back and forth with Cyan.
There are a ton of posts like these ones there. Joboman has not yet been succesful in bussing a buddy to lynch, but he certainly has tried and is in fact a busser.
Unvote, Vote Hunted Charlie
___
@Ace: What are some games that you have played in?
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Anyways, after a quick reread, my point still stands. It took joboman two L-1's to vote for Cyan, who he'd been calling scum the whole game. He called Cyan scum on page 6 (15 ppp). He voted on page 24, and then proceeded to move his vote to Cantripmancer (town) a few pages later, on page 30. He also never actually pushed the wagon. He voted, defended it once, and then moved on to Cantrip.
It's not at all like the H_C scenario, which I believe reads more like joboman's style of opportunism. In this case, he voted early as soon as some pressure hit H_C and tried to push a speedlynch.
nvm, you responded to that. With even worse of an argument.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Yes, at the time the jobo wagon was the strongest based on his history of barning, lurking, and fence-sitting. And, if I recall correctly, I was right on that one.
Right, there's no place where it fit in nicely. That's probably why I forgot to put it in there. And by the way, I think people are incorrectly assuming the question mark after "wagon" makes it noncommittal. If you think about it the way I did it doesn't necessarily mean that. Consider if you call somebody up and say "Party tonight?". That's not a weak way of saying it, it's just a different way of phrasing.
I don't understand how three words indicating agreement with a post can be "so terrible it hurts", especially since I DID address Ecophagy's explanation. Explain?
Please tell me how what I said was in any way logically inaccurate. Calling anything I say a bad argument doesn't make it true. The mod said that one ability could be used each day, except if he says otherwise. And he could well have said otherwise. Therefore we still know nothing about Sylar's ability (besides that he is almost certainly a power-stealing serial killer). What is wrong with this argument?
ReVote Hunted Charlie
Never should have gone against my D1 thoughts. That's what I get for harboring a WIFOM gnome from the cold with the empty space in my noggin. He pays good rent though...
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
Thanks to Damnation Studios and Darth Monkey
"Just One More Chance"