*shrug* I'd be highly surprised if the Haitian and some kind of vig were not in the game, and that the former didn't have some kind of ability suppression. It's an elegant solution to an awkward problem.
I don't have time to respond to HC about the case (later, I promise!), but I will say this about the Vezok situation: I have a plan and have had a plan. However, talking about the plan kills the plan. So, when I say just to let the man live to day 2, that's really all I can say. It fully fleshed out and will net us some killers I believe, but whether it works or not, you can kill him tomorrow. No argument about it.
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I know nothing about my ability except is supernatural and passive.
From the flavor I assume pressure means everyone. One telepathic guy talked to me.
My wincon says survive to the end so that's why is impossible. From what I get from the PM the game should end with me dead.
Who is Syalr and who is Peter?
Do I have any chance of being targeted by the cult?
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I know nothing about my ability except is supernatural and passive.
From the flavor I assume pressure means everyone. One telepathic guy talked to me.
My wincon says survive to the end so that's why is impossible. From what I get from the PM the game should end with me dead.
Who is Syalr and who is Peter?
Do I have any chance of being targeted by the cult?
I would highly recommend that you go read a wiki article about Heroes. Both Peter and Sylar have the capacity to gain other people's abilities, Sylar through killing them, Peter through contact.
You can understand that we don't want anyone else (least of all Sylar the serial killer) to have the capacity to go ka-boom.
Cult? Where are you getting the idea that there is a cult in the game?
Sorry I missed the fun of random stage, but I'm here now and after the last few posts I got to vote vezo. Plain and simple bad playing and outing himself as scum quick and early.
I feel that lynching vezo now is the best option. Once thats taken care of we can figure out who else needs to go.
Are you even listening?
I know nothing about my ability. I prefer to help the town win.
Voting me just cause you think it's the best course of action is not good. I go KABOOM from everything. It's enough to apply pressure. It doesn't even has to be real pressure maybe just some votes will do.
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Clearly Vez has no intentions of trying to be helpful.
Eco, you're saying that lynching him is likely to set him off, but this is mafia. Lynching people is the "safe" way to get rid of them. And more than that, if we can't get rid of "the bomb" without having a specific player's ability, then we're not playing mafia anymore.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Clearly Vez has no intentions of trying to be helpful.
Eco, you're saying that lynching him is likely to set him off, but this is mafia. Lynching people is the "safe" way to get rid of them. And more than that, if we can't get rid of "the bomb" without having a specific player's ability, then we're not playing mafia anymore.
I'm saying that we can utilize abilities to minimize the damage the exploding man will cause. I fear that lynching him will make a big ole mess, where a vig shot might do less damage.
Therefore, I have a proposal. The Haitian should target Vezo tonight, and - if possible - permanently remove Vezo's ability. Because this might not be possible, a vig should also target Ted.
It's plausible that the Haitian is mafia. Hopefully, you can see that the advantage of the world not blowing up is worth co-operating with the town, especially night 1.
Net result: Ted can't go boom because of the Haitian, then Ted goes Die from a vig. Problem solved.
The one issue is that Sylar + Ted = bad. In order to try and rectify this, we should have a watcher watch Ted - He'd see the Haitian, the vig and Sylar. This seems like a good deal to me. I should point out to Sylar that you targeting Ted is unwise, given that a watcher is a common role, and you being narrowed down at all basically means that you lose.
This must be a joke. You are assuming that there is a Haitian, who will support this plan AND has the ability to suppress Ted's explosion. You're also assuming that we have a vig AND a watcher AND they're both capable and willing of following your orders tonight. No, this is not a reasonable plan.
I'm going to reread the case on Hunted Charlie, but in the meantime I stand by my earlier comments that Vezok should tell us everything he knows (do a full claim). We really need to know what we're dealing with here, specifically what he means when he says "gets stressed."
This is pretty much what I think is the smart play for the town. Consider the case against me until satisfied, while making Vezok give us more information (I also think it would be good to consider joboman, but I haven't had the time to make a real case against him yet).
The problem is that the level of your response was not appropriate for how early it was in the game. No one cares that you had an opinion (in fact the discussion is good), just that you labeled a couple players obvious scum with very little evidence to go on.
I labeled a post really scummy. Because it was really scummy. I didn't label the player anything, because at that point in the game nobody is obvious scum based off of a few posts.
The problem with fearmongering is that, like baseless speculation, it masquerades as actual content. While I don't actually find what you had to say entirely worthless, speculating on a possible interaction between two characters, when we know nothing about one and very little about the other, doesn't seem like the best use of our time.
I agree that mod-gaming is not a great use of time. Besides that one line in my second(?) post of the game, when I didn't have much to base things on, I have carefully avoided it. But please realize that mod-gaming and flavor speculation have been a staple of this game and I'm far from the only person who has done it--perhaps half the players are guilty of this. Consider Syrenz's paragraph-long guess of Sylar's ability--nobody seems to think that was scummy. I'm not trying to distract from my case and certainly don't want to start a Syrenz bandwagon, I'm just pointing out that behavior found in half of the players cannot be a scumtell.
While I do agree with your annoyance at the two claims, and the amount of use we're giving to the buzzword "fearmongering," I don't agree with your blanket statement about no more information. For instance, please explain how it would be harmful for Vezo to right now tell us everything he knows?
I completely agree, that's why I said "UNNECESSARY INFORMATION". I have never requested that no more information be shared at all. And I also agree that Vezok should be telling everything he knows. Please see post #172, where I flat-out said that "I support a Vezok full-claim."
The only time I say "Hm" is when I find something interesting or notable. I think Freudian Slip might have been too strong, but the word you've used generally denotes some sort of opinion or feeling. I find it hard to believe that you wrote "Hm" just to make sure we took note.
I thought that was interesting in that it was either a massive attempt at mod-gaming or inside knowledge. However I didn't think it was necessarily a scum tell, and had no comment on it. Thus, "Hm".
Are you even listening?
I know nothing about my ability. I prefer to help the town win.
Voting me just cause you think it's the best course of action is not good. I go KABOOM from everything. It's enough to apply pressure. It doesn't even has to be real pressure maybe just some votes will do.
Vezok, your posts aren't making sense. And "I don't know I don't care" isn't a good answer to an actual question. It definitely seemed like you know of the existence of some kind of cult, but now you know nothing? Please tell us everything you know about your role. Now. No "I know nothing" because you definitely seem to know something. Give us a precise paraphrase of what the mod told you. This is your only chance to win, because if you don't give us any information we will assume the worst and kill you today or tonight.
I'm saying that we can utilize abilities to minimize the damage the exploding man will cause. I fear that lynching him will make a big ole mess, where a vig shot might do less damage.
But having re-read (sorry guys, I missed that the first time), the only thing he did think might trigger it is night abilities. Now he says possibly lynch votes as well, but of course he might well be lying to get out of the lynch at this point. It seems like a vig shot would have a good chance of making him blow up, unless somebody roleblocked him that night (and the roleblock could affect this kind of ability). But the problem with this is you're assuming in this scenario that we have a cooperative vig and roleblocker. This is not necessarily true, therefore we can't just go with this plan.
Are you listening?
The mod never told me what my ability does only that it's passive and supernatural.
I am trying to win this game but it seems easier to help the town win because it's easier for them and they are the majority.
Once again I have no idea what my ability does.
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Are you listening?
The mod never told me what my ability does only that it's passive and supernatural.
I am trying to win this game but it seems easier to help the town win because it's easier for them and they are the majority.
Once again I have no idea what my ability does.
Passive and supernatural? So you don't actually know that it will cause you to hurt people or that it is caused by pressure? Was that all speculation or part of your role? The problem is that we've heard plenty from you, and it's unclear what the mod actually told you.
I had a big flavor scene. I deduced some things from it.
I have only the name of my ability and what I deduced from the flavor.
I was in an interogation room and the moment some cops stept I started radiating and of them tried to calm me down with his mind talk ability.
I think my ability doesn't hurt me but from what I heard of my character and some flavor it seems that if I'm pressured a little more I can go BOOM.
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I had a big flavor scene. I deduced some things from it.
I have only the name of my ability and what I deduced from the flavor.
I was in an interogation room and the moment some cops stept I started radiating and of them tried to calm me down with his mind talk ability.
I think my ability doesn't hurt me but from what I heard of my character and some flavor it seems that if I'm pressured a little more I can go BOOM.
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I am getting a strong suspicion that HC and joboman are scumbuddies. Not only are they both being independently scummy, but HC's "Jobo's being scummy", but only voting when it's pointed out that he hasn't is really bad. Jobo did something similar, but I can't actually recall it.
I am totally happy to see either of them die.
On Vezo/Ted: I don't think a lynch is the best idea. Gradual application of "pressure" in the form of votes could end up very messily, and while I don't see a mod creating a game that could end day 1 with an "everybody dies", I wouldn't be surprised to see, say, half the wagon blow up too.
Therefore, I have a proposal. The Haitian should target Vezo tonight, and - if possible - permanently remove Vezo's ability. Because this might not be possible, a vig should also target Ted.
It's plausible that the Haitian is mafia. Hopefully, you can see that the advantage of the world not blowing up is worth co-operating with the town, especially night 1.
Net result: Ted can't go boom because of the Haitian, then Ted goes Die from a vig. Problem solved.
The one issue is that Sylar + Ted = bad. In order to try and rectify this, we should have a watcher watch Ted - He'd see the Haitian, the vig and Sylar. This seems like a good deal to me. I should point out to Sylar that you targeting Ted is unwise, given that a watcher is a common role, and you being narrowed down at all basically means that you lose.
(also, Syrenz: A while ago, I put down some ideas for a Heroes mafia, and my Sylar worked exactly like you laid out, so it doesn't seem so far-fetched that Zionite had a similar idea)
There are multiple problems with this as outlined by others. Directing power roles is especially unwise when lynching vezokpiraka and letting our power fight off scum seems much better.
Clearly Vez has no intentions of trying to be helpful.
Eco, you're saying that lynching him is likely to set him off, but this is mafia. Lynching people is the "safe" way to get rid of them. And more than that, if we can't get rid of "the bomb" without having a specific player's ability, then we're not playing mafia anymore.
I'm inclined to believe Vezo. I've played with him before and he does have a bit of an annoying, uncooperative style - but his frustration here seems very genuine to me. It seems perfectly possible that the mod was unclear to Vezo about what exactly triggers his ability and what the consequences are. If Vezo knows things, he has lots of motivation to tell us (so we don't lynch him) and very little motivation I can imagine to hold back. Additionally, this analysis seems to jibe with Vezo claiming at such an unexpected (early) moment - he was genuinely afraid of exploding, and, wanted to protect himself (and perhaps the town, out of some noble intention), so he claimed. I'm convinced enough to Unvote.
@Hunted Charlie: In terms of mod-gaming I think everyone needs to settle down a bit. You included. Let's stop speculating about what possible roles and interactions there could be and focus on what actually matters, which is scum hunting by actually looking at what people are saying.
I'm willing to go along with Tacky for the moment - interested in seeing his replies to Hunted Charlie.
Well I never played as a neutral before so I don't know what to expect.
I am trying to play as town cause I'm not scum so I don't have any way of knowing who is going to win so I'm siding with the majority.
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I would be very, very surprised if there is no Haitian in the game. I would be further surprised if he didn't suppress abilities. I would also be surprised if there is no-one who has a kill on the town'e side.
Therefore, I don't think my plan is that much of a leap. I hope that these two players are capable of recognizing the dangers of a human bomb, and can co-operate to remove it with minimal damage.
The watcher is speculative (plausible, based on the number of players who can see the future and so forth, but still speculative). I mostly mentioned it because it should scare Sylar off targeting Vezo tonight, because Sylar being outed means he loses.
Directing power roles is, in general, a bad idea because the scum can screw with it. I feel, however, that the scum should not screw with it because Vezo dying without exploding benefits everyone.
I just feel that a plan to deal with Vezo that doesn't use our lynch today and reduces the risk of Vezo exploding is preferable to one that doesn't.
I suppose we could just ignore Vezo, but I don't want Sylar to get his abilitiy (although how it would actually help him, I don't know), and having vezo alive worries me.
Well if you leave me alone I can act as town for as long as no-one touches me.
I think it's better for the town to kill Sylar, who's a SK from what I heard, Then killing me.
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Well if you leave me alone I can act as town for as long as no-one touches me.
I think it's better for the town to kill Sylar, who's a SK from what I heard, Then killing me.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I don't have time to respond to HC about the case (later, I promise!), but I will say this about the Vezok situation: I have a plan and have had a plan. However, talking about the plan kills the plan. So, when I say just to let the man live to day 2, that's really all I can say. It fully fleshed out and will net us some killers I believe, but whether it works or not, you can kill him tomorrow. No argument about it.
Has everybody missed this? TACKY is seeming very townie right now so I'm inclined to believe him.
*shrug* I'd be highly surprised if the Haitian and some kind of vig were not in the game, and that the former didn't have some kind of ability suppression. It's an elegant solution to an awkward problem.
I don't have time to respond to HC about the case (later, I promise!), but I will say this about the Vezok situation: I have a plan and have had a plan. However, talking about the plan kills the plan. So, when I say just to let the man live to day 2, that's really all I can say. It fully fleshed out and will net us some killers I believe, but whether it works or not, you can kill him tomorrow. No argument about it.
I'm inclined to trust my fellow evil genius.
Quote from Hunted Charlie »
I thought that was interesting in that it was either a massive attempt at mod-gaming
The mod pretty much gave us the go ahead to modgame.
Well if you leave me alone I can act as town for as long as no-one touches me.
I think it's better for the town to kill Sylar, who's a SK from what I heard, Then killing me.
I had a big flavor scene. I deduced some things from it.
I have only the name of my ability and what I deduced from the flavor.
I was in an interogation room and the moment some cops stept I started radiating and of them tried to calm me down with his mind talk ability.
I think my ability doesn't hurt me but from what I heard of my character and some flavor it seems that if I'm pressured a little more I can go BOOM.
Thank you. So pretty much we know nothing about what can set you off, but at least we know that we know nothing.
@Hunted Charlie: In terms of mod-gaming I think everyone needs to settle down a bit. You included. Let's stop speculating about what possible roles and interactions there could be and focus on what actually matters, which is scum hunting by actually looking at what people are saying.
Where have I been mod-gaming? My last post was largely focused on telling Ecophagy NOT to mod-game. I am discussing vezokpiraka's situation but that's hardly mod-gaming, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly he got as a role.
I would be very, very surprised if there is no Haitian in the game. I would be further surprised if he didn't suppress abilities. I would also be surprised if there is no-one who has a kill on the town'e side.
And if you're surprised, then the whole plan backfires. Or maybe we have one but they have a special limitation stopping this plan, or they're busy with another important action that night, or they've been roleblocked themselves, or any of the other unknown possibilities. The point is: anything could happen; this requires way too many assumptions, therefore it is a bad plan.
Directing power roles is, in general, a bad idea because the scum can screw with it. I feel, however, that the scum should not screw with it because Vezo dying without exploding benefits everyone.
Maybe? Or maybe the scum want Vezo to explode (if Vezo will explode, which hasn't even been confirmed). Since we don't know what it does, we don't even know whether the scum want it or not. Why would you assume that scum would benefit from Vezok staying alive?
I just feel that a plan to deal with Vezo that doesn't use our lynch today and reduces the risk of Vezo exploding is preferable to one that doesn't.
OK, but apparently Vezok doesn't even know what will cause him to explode. Maybe a vig will, maybe a lynch will, who knows. We can't really factor that into our plan because we don't have any real information about that.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Holy crap, not on for a day and a half I've missed everything. Yeah I'm in this game. Need to catch up, might not get it all done tonight but have a good portion of the week end to.
Ok. Well, as long as we agree on not lynching Vezo today, that's fine. If the necessary parts of my plan feel the need to co-operate they can. TACKY functions as a backup plan (or whatever). On further reflection, it doesn't actually seem that great for Sylar to kill Vezo, so that issue is reduced.
I don't mind my plan not being followed, I just don't want Vezo lynched. HC on the other hand...
You should not have mentioned that your ability has this caveat. I think I know what it is.
I really don't think you do. And either way, keep it to yourself eh?
Quote from Syrenz »
Others like who? The only other person coming to mind is Sylar.
My character also helped out Elle in the first season if I remember correctly.
Peter won't be able to target you if you're untargetable so this gains nothing really.
Peter might be able to bypass my protections based on his ability to absorb my ability if he's close by? I don't know.
I understand you guys disagreeing with me claiming. But here's how I saw it. I'm essentially a really hard to kill vanilla. Meanwhile...If Peter isn't fully powered in this game and I can level him up. Well, that would be huge to say the least. Plus on top of that it would make peter hard to kill, which is a good thing assuming that peter is town which is a pretty safe bet. Somebody has to balance out Sylar, in the series it's Peter. If peter is powered up, the town will have a better shot at winning then if I didn't claim imo. If Peter is already powered up (he can control his abilities), then disregard this.
On the Vezok thing. I'm going to game the mod again and say that he is incredibly dangerous. If he's written the same as the series then a little bit of pressure and he fries who ever is near him, a lot of pressure and he goes completely nuclear. If he ever goes off, it's possible that he kills everyone and the game ends in a draw. As such, I think Ecophagy's plan is a really really good idea. Otherwise there's no reason for sylar not to target him tonight. I agree with him that the haitian is pretty much going to be in the game. It is highly likely that a watcher will be able to target Vez, and a vig is even more likely then a watcher in this game. I think Ecophagy's plan is our safest bet to have a safely defused bomb personally. Plus it would give us a very short list of people to look in the unlikely chance that Sylar targeted him anyways.
"When evolution selects its agents, it does so at a cost. It makes demands in exchange for singularity, and you may be asked to do something against your very nature. Suddenly, the change in your life that should have been wonderful comes as a betrayal. It may seem cruel, but the goal is nothing short of self-preservation, survival."
Also, use "vote Zionite, unvote Zionite" or "vote Zionite, Vote Xyre". Don't use just 'unvote'. I'll take unvotes automatically if you move your vote to another player.
I don't mind my plan not being followed, I just don't want Vezo lynched
Why? Again, Vezok does not know anything about what sets his ability off. So as far as we know, a vig shot is just as likely as a lynch to set him off.
firstly: I don't want to use Day 1 lynch on a claimed neutral. It just seems inefficient. The secondary reason is that Vezo says pressure sets him off, and I personally think that 12 votes is more pressure than a man with a gun.
Sure, a vig could set him off, but I mostly don't want to lynch the claimed survivor day 1.
You have me listed as both voting for Syrenz and not voting. Unvote Syrenz to prevent any furthur confusion.
Just to make my own thougts known about the whole vez situation: I've held off saying anything because I wanted the full story before coming to any conclusion. Also, because I tend to have a bias against vez due to previous play in other games. I think he's dangerous. Not just the fact that he's Ted, or that he's a new player, or that he doesn't know exactly what will set him off, or that he doesn't know what will happen if/when he does go off, or that others could potentially absorb/steal his power and exponentially increase the damage, but he lies. He's lied in both games I've been in with him, once as scum and the other as town. But, he hasn't displayed his characteristic jumpy play here yet (aside from outing himself right off), and claims to want to help the town win, and I too dislike the idea of lynching a neutral on day 1 - especially if they're going to play like a townie. I guess the only conclusion I can come to at the moment is that we have a precarious situation on our hands. Things with vez could literally and figuratively blow up in our collective faces. Ted's presence in the game will get more and more volatile as the game progresses and powers that could potentially deal with him are eliminated. In a vaccuum I'd say we should lynch him now and move on - taking whatever backlash came our way - but apparently TACKY has a "fully fleshed-out" plan that could potentially out some scum, and I'm inclined to let him play it out because I certainly don't have one.
tl;dr - Ted/vez is dangerous and will continue to be more so as the game progresses, but I don't have any plan for how to deal with it. TACKY says he does, and seems town to me, so I'm behind him.
You have me listed as both voting for Syrenz and not voting. Unvote Syrenz to prevent any furthur confusion.
Just to make my own thougts known about the whole vez situation: I've held off saying anything because I wanted the full story before coming to any conclusion. Also, because I tend to have a bias against vez due to previous play in other games. I think he's dangerous. Not just the fact that he's Ted, or that he's a new player, or that he doesn't know exactly what will set him off, or that he doesn't know what will happen if/when he does go off, or that others could potentially absorb/steal his power and exponentially increase the damage, but he lies. He's lied in both games I've been in with him, once as scum and the other as town. But, he hasn't displayed his characteristic jumpy play here yet (aside from outing himself right off), and claims to want to help the town win, and I too dislike the idea of lynching a neutral on day 1 - especially if they're going to play like a townie. I guess the only conclusion I can come to at the moment is that we have a precarious situation on our hands. Things with vez could literally and figuratively blow up in our collective faces. Ted's presence in the game will get more and more volatile as the game progresses and powers that could potentially deal with him are eliminated. In a vaccuum I'd say we should lynch him now and move on - taking whatever backlash came our way - but apparently TACKY has a "fully fleshed-out" plan that could potentially out some scum, and I'm inclined to let him play it out because I certainly don't have one.
tl;dr - Ted/vez is dangerous and will continue to be more so as the game progresses, but I don't have any plan for how to deal with it. TACKY says he does, and seems town to me, so I'm behind him.
I know I do, but what do you think I could have seen that was different?
You can't accuse someone of having a scummy post, fail to give reasons, then ask that same person to give reasons to why his own post is scummy based on your views.
You can't accuse someone of having a scummy post, fail to give reasons, then ask that same person to give reasons to why his own post is scummy based on your views.
unvote, Vote joboman
I wasn't asking him for it, I wanted to know what he thought. I do have reasons and I'm going to sit on them for now.
I know nothing about my ability except is supernatural and passive.
From the flavor I assume pressure means everyone. One telepathic guy talked to me.
My wincon says survive to the end so that's why is impossible. From what I get from the PM the game should end with me dead.
Who is Syalr and who is Peter?
Do I have any chance of being targeted by the cult?
Also, and I hate to do this, but I think role direction is pretty important here: DKD claimed Claire, right? Yeah, he needs protection. Sylar being indestructible = bad news bears.
Off to respond to HC, and post a Town/Scum list. Need to do that before the day ends.
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Also, and I hate to do this, but I think role direction is pretty important here: DKD claimed Claire, right? Yeah, he needs protection. Sylar being indestructible = bad news bears.
Off to respond to HC, and post a Town/Scum list. Need to do that before the day ends.
To my knowledge only two people have claimed, and I'm certainly not one of them. Vez claimed Ted Sprague, and falkonn claimed Invisible Man. Where did you think I claimed?
In part one of this, you say I shouldn't be calling DKD scummy based on such an early post. In part two, you say that scumhunting is good and any discussion early on is productive. These two positions seem incompatible logically, as my first post was of the scumhunting, early discussion variety. Actually, my and OMT's posts were similar in that regard.
No, wrong. OMT was actively doing analysis. He was providing analysis on Vezok's playstyle and DKD. You came out an said "seems really scummy" and moved along. Had you provided analysis for your thoughts, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. But your post reeked of opportunism. Others had expressed concern, so you jump in with a smilie and a line about how he's really scummy.
In short, OMT=Early discussion HC=Opportunist Bandwagoning.
They are not empirically denied.
Also, you avoid my question here: What was OMT distracting from so early on? Seems like an excuse to throw around suspicion to me.
This term "fearmongering" is being thrown around a lot this game. I'm unsure how raising the possibility of a neutral turning on us is a bad thing, since it's absolutely a good thing to watch out for. And I'm not sure how raising suspicions of Vezok would help the scum, either.
You are totally right, it is a good thing to watch out for, but you're overreacting about it. Let your concern be known, sure, but overalarming the town causes panic, thus helps the scum. Town gets panicky, mislynches and the scum are worry free for a while.
You created a 'nervous' situation with the Ted/Claire thing, which could get people riled up, and the whole 'Vezok is totally siding with the scum' bit is an attempt to get his lynch and direct the town. Equating Vezok to scum is terribad.
I repeat: Vezok, a claimed neutral, is not equal to scum AT ALL. The fact that you excuse him off as such is more points against you.
Proof is impossible in a discussion-based game like this, and evidence is continually building from Day 1. Stronger cases can be made as the game goes on. Therefore, the decision of where to hunt is not based on finding a perfect case but on finding the best possible case at that time. Jobo was the best possible case at that time.
Was Jobo the best case? You seems unsure, unsure enough to ask 'do we bandwagon' in hopes of getting others onboard. In fact, your 'case' on Jobo was mentioning that he was fairly inactive, and you even excused that away by saying that he could just be AFK for a while. It was NOT the best case. Why didn't you go back to OMT or DKD or one of your earlier leads?
And read my points next time please. I said proof (to the best of the town's ability). That's straight from the post, I'm not implying that you need hard proof to case a guy.
Right, that's because that was my third post of the game, during the early phase with little evidence. Permission to change my mind, sir?
Snarky response noted. Also counts as an emotional response, duly noted.
Also, this is yet another contridiction. You claimed earlier in your response to me that you were Providing to the discussion and such. Now you are claiming that it was baseless posting with little evidence so early on. Does anyone else see this (I really wanna know!)
To the point, what I argued was that you told AsianInvasion that it would be silly to outright say "THIS GUY IS TOTALLY SCUM!" so early on. I'm saying that you did that very thing early on. You did it to DKD/OMT. That's the contradiction. It has nothing to do with changing your mind, that's fine. The problem is when you call something scummy without realizing that you are guilty of it.
That's hypocritical. That's contradiction. That's why you're scum, by your logic and mine.
Again this word. Yes, having two people claim in the first two real-life days of a game like this is bad. I am again unclear about why you think bolding or underlining it makes it "fearmongering".
Raises alarm. Also in that same post I reference, you call things/people stupid, specifically Falkonn. You assume the scum are plotting his demise. It's more about attitude and appearance. Getting attention is nice, I used it earlier to highlight some important parts of my Vezok theory.
However, using bold and italicized words to convey a mass warning and then being a negative nancy about how the scum are plotting our demise is fearmongering. Saying people are stupid and having a generally bad disposition about the state of the game help the fearmongering. Negativity is never the answer.
Indifferent? I suggested we start a bandwagon on him. I forgot to vote and quickly remedied my error.
Dude, first, Syrenz called you on it, not sticking to your guns. But, I can see you maybe forgetting the vote, I'll give you that one.
Still doesn't change the fact that the vote was terribad. Using the words "Wagon I suppose?" to convince people to join your cause based on lurking seems scummy. Really scummy.
I had nothing to say on it, but want edit to be noted and inputted into the town consciousness as rather odd. Which it was. How exactly does the concept of a Freudian slip play into this?[QUOTE=Hunted Charlie;/comments/10680975]
Because if you had nothing to say, why say anything at all. It's as if you feel like you HAD to say something, even if it was nothing. If you wanted it to be know as rather odd, you could have said "That's rather odd!"
Instead you said Hm, which is cryptic. Really though, it says "I feel like I should say something here when I have nothing to say at all!". Generally, the people who don't have a lot to say are the scum.
I think you said Hm there because you are trying to look town when you are clearly not. You advocated a lynch based on "nothing else going on" and now this. On top of picking two quick early targets in the early game, I've gone over that a few times now. If you aren't scumhunting, you are scum as they say. And you sir are NOT scumhunting.
[QUOTE=Hunted Charlie;/comments/10680975]Anyway, I think the case against me is unquestionably weak but it is true that our other options are limited. It seems like me, Zevok, and joboman are the three possibilities at this point. If I have indeed misunderstood Zevok's claim, he could be a good potential lynch. Joboman is giving off scum vibes but I've got to go through and see whether there's a true case or that's just me.[QUOTE=Hunted Charlie;/comments/10680975]
IIRC, this is the same dismissive attitude given to the suspicion that Syrenz and others had on him. Except this time he's dismissing a whole case as Unquestionably (strong word there) weak. Most of his responses were "I don't see how" kind of responses. Of course he doesn't see how, he might just choose not to see it.
I like the flip-flop onto Vezok as soon as pressure hits him too. Remember he was totally on my side earlier about not wanting to lynch Vezok? He just gives himself an excuse to consider him a lynch now.
And If you have good reason to believe Jobo scum, please go case him. He's fairly neutral in my book, but I'm willing to listen. Don't just talk about it though, let's see some action. Otherwise I'm convinced it's all just for show.
Vote Stands
As far as scumlists go, I've gotten some nasty vibes from AsianInvasion. The other AI is in this game too right? I can't tell, he's not here POST MOAR PLZ! Joboman lurking has me concerned, but I really don't wanna lynch Jobo again only to see him as town AGAIN. I'm getting tired of that, it's gonna take some convincing on my part. Ace's involvement is scarce as well, a little worried.
Syrenz reads town, as do Ecophagy and Cyan, although he's so experienced it could be a ruse
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To my knowledge only two people have claimed, and I'm certainly not one of them. Vez claimed Ted Sprague, and falkonn claimed Invisible Man. Where did you think I claimed?
Oh thank god, for some reason at work today I had myself convinced that you had claimed Claire. I was totally stressing all day that another power role was outed and Sylar was gonna tear this game in two.
I've never seen the TV show, but if it's half as fun as this game, I need to watch it all ASAP.
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Oh thank god, for some reason at work today I had myself convinced that you had claimed Claire. I was totally stressing all day that another power role was outed and Sylar was gonna tear this game in two.
I've never seen the TV show, but if it's half as fun as this game, I need to watch it all ASAP.
Just watch the first season. The writers strike raped it, and it went downhill from there.
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From the flavor I assume pressure means everyone. One telepathic guy talked to me.
My wincon says survive to the end so that's why is impossible. From what I get from the PM the game should end with me dead.
Who is Syalr and who is Peter?
Do I have any chance of being targeted by the cult?
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I would highly recommend that you go read a wiki article about Heroes. Both Peter and Sylar have the capacity to gain other people's abilities, Sylar through killing them, Peter through contact.
You can understand that we don't want anyone else (least of all Sylar the serial killer) to have the capacity to go ka-boom.
Cult? Where are you getting the idea that there is a cult in the game?
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I get what you're saying, but do you actually think there is a cult in the game?
I just want to find a way to win this game because it's clearly to me that I'm not going to win by being a survivor.
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I feel that lynching vezo now is the best option. Once thats taken care of we can figure out who else needs to go.
The Family
I know nothing about my ability. I prefer to help the town win.
Voting me just cause you think it's the best course of action is not good. I go KABOOM from everything. It's enough to apply pressure. It doesn't even has to be real pressure maybe just some votes will do.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Eco, you're saying that lynching him is likely to set him off, but this is mafia. Lynching people is the "safe" way to get rid of them. And more than that, if we can't get rid of "the bomb" without having a specific player's ability, then we're not playing mafia anymore.
His name is probably Matt. And please stop blurting out information. If you find out who is, DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
I'm saying that we can utilize abilities to minimize the damage the exploding man will cause. I fear that lynching him will make a big ole mess, where a vig shot might do less damage.
This is pretty much what I think is the smart play for the town. Consider the case against me until satisfied, while making Vezok give us more information (I also think it would be good to consider joboman, but I haven't had the time to make a real case against him yet).
I labeled a post really scummy. Because it was really scummy. I didn't label the player anything, because at that point in the game nobody is obvious scum based off of a few posts.
I agree that mod-gaming is not a great use of time. Besides that one line in my second(?) post of the game, when I didn't have much to base things on, I have carefully avoided it. But please realize that mod-gaming and flavor speculation have been a staple of this game and I'm far from the only person who has done it--perhaps half the players are guilty of this. Consider Syrenz's paragraph-long guess of Sylar's ability--nobody seems to think that was scummy. I'm not trying to distract from my case and certainly don't want to start a Syrenz bandwagon, I'm just pointing out that behavior found in half of the players cannot be a scumtell.
I completely agree, that's why I said "UNNECESSARY INFORMATION". I have never requested that no more information be shared at all. And I also agree that Vezok should be telling everything he knows. Please see post #172, where I flat-out said that "I support a Vezok full-claim."
I thought that was interesting in that it was either a massive attempt at mod-gaming or inside knowledge. However I didn't think it was necessarily a scum tell, and had no comment on it. Thus, "Hm".
Vezok, your posts aren't making sense. And "I don't know I don't care" isn't a good answer to an actual question. It definitely seemed like you know of the existence of some kind of cult, but now you know nothing? Please tell us everything you know about your role. Now. No "I know nothing" because you definitely seem to know something. Give us a precise paraphrase of what the mod told you. This is your only chance to win, because if you don't give us any information we will assume the worst and kill you today or tonight.
But having re-read (sorry guys, I missed that the first time), the only thing he did think might trigger it is night abilities. Now he says possibly lynch votes as well, but of course he might well be lying to get out of the lynch at this point. It seems like a vig shot would have a good chance of making him blow up, unless somebody roleblocked him that night (and the roleblock could affect this kind of ability). But the problem with this is you're assuming in this scenario that we have a cooperative vig and roleblocker. This is not necessarily true, therefore we can't just go with this plan.
The mod never told me what my ability does only that it's passive and supernatural.
I am trying to win this game but it seems easier to help the town win because it's easier for them and they are the majority.
Once again I have no idea what my ability does.
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I have only the name of my ability and what I deduced from the flavor.
I was in an interogation room and the moment some cops stept I started radiating and of them tried to calm me down with his mind talk ability.
I think my ability doesn't hurt me but from what I heard of my character and some flavor it seems that if I'm pressured a little more I can go BOOM.
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I have only the name of my ability and what I deduced from the flavor.
I was in an interogation room and the moment some cops stept I started radiating and of them tried to calm me down with his mind talk ability.
I think my ability doesn't hurt me but from what I heard of my character and some flavor it seems that if I'm pressured a little more I can go BOOM.
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I agree with Ecophagy who agrees with me.
There are multiple problems with this as outlined by others. Directing power roles is especially unwise when lynching vezokpiraka and letting our power fight off scum seems much better.
I also like you as town.
/barn
@Hunted Charlie: In terms of mod-gaming I think everyone needs to settle down a bit. You included. Let's stop speculating about what possible roles and interactions there could be and focus on what actually matters, which is scum hunting by actually looking at what people are saying.
I'm willing to go along with Tacky for the moment - interested in seeing his replies to Hunted Charlie.
I am trying to play as town cause I'm not scum so I don't have any way of knowing who is going to win so I'm siding with the majority.
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Therefore, I don't think my plan is that much of a leap. I hope that these two players are capable of recognizing the dangers of a human bomb, and can co-operate to remove it with minimal damage.
The watcher is speculative (plausible, based on the number of players who can see the future and so forth, but still speculative). I mostly mentioned it because it should scare Sylar off targeting Vezo tonight, because Sylar being outed means he loses.
Directing power roles is, in general, a bad idea because the scum can screw with it. I feel, however, that the scum should not screw with it because Vezo dying without exploding benefits everyone.
I just feel that a plan to deal with Vezo that doesn't use our lynch today and reduces the risk of Vezo exploding is preferable to one that doesn't.
I suppose we could just ignore Vezo, but I don't want Sylar to get his abilitiy (although how it would actually help him, I don't know), and having vezo alive worries me.
I think it's better for the town to kill Sylar, who's a SK from what I heard, Then killing me.
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Facepalm.
Has everybody missed this? TACKY is seeming very townie right now so I'm inclined to believe him.
Without further ado, Unvote, Vote: Hunted Charlie
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
yeah I don't support this plan.
I'm inclined to trust my fellow evil genius.
The mod pretty much gave us the go ahead to modgame.
yep
unvote
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Where have I been mod-gaming? My last post was largely focused on telling Ecophagy NOT to mod-game. I am discussing vezokpiraka's situation but that's hardly mod-gaming, I'm just trying to figure out what exactly he got as a role.
And if you're surprised, then the whole plan backfires. Or maybe we have one but they have a special limitation stopping this plan, or they're busy with another important action that night, or they've been roleblocked themselves, or any of the other unknown possibilities. The point is: anything could happen; this requires way too many assumptions, therefore it is a bad plan.
Maybe? Or maybe the scum want Vezo to explode (if Vezo will explode, which hasn't even been confirmed). Since we don't know what it does, we don't even know whether the scum want it or not. Why would you assume that scum would benefit from Vezok staying alive?
OK, but apparently Vezok doesn't even know what will cause him to explode. Maybe a vig will, maybe a lynch will, who knows. We can't really factor that into our plan because we don't have any real information about that.
O RLY?
Does not mean it's a good idea.
Fine. I still think it's better to get rid of him today, though.
Vote: Hunted Charlie
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I don't mind my plan not being followed, I just don't want Vezo lynched. HC on the other hand...
I really don't think you do. And either way, keep it to yourself eh?
My character also helped out Elle in the first season if I remember correctly.
Peter might be able to bypass my protections based on his ability to absorb my ability if he's close by? I don't know.
I understand you guys disagreeing with me claiming. But here's how I saw it. I'm essentially a really hard to kill vanilla. Meanwhile...If Peter isn't fully powered in this game and I can level him up. Well, that would be huge to say the least. Plus on top of that it would make peter hard to kill, which is a good thing assuming that peter is town which is a pretty safe bet. Somebody has to balance out Sylar, in the series it's Peter. If peter is powered up, the town will have a better shot at winning then if I didn't claim imo. If Peter is already powered up (he can control his abilities), then disregard this.
On the Vezok thing. I'm going to game the mod again and say that he is incredibly dangerous. If he's written the same as the series then a little bit of pressure and he fries who ever is near him, a lot of pressure and he goes completely nuclear. If he ever goes off, it's possible that he kills everyone and the game ends in a draw. As such, I think Ecophagy's plan is a really really good idea. Otherwise there's no reason for sylar not to target him tonight. I agree with him that the haitian is pretty much going to be in the game. It is highly likely that a watcher will be able to target Vez, and a vig is even more likely then a watcher in this game. I think Ecophagy's plan is our safest bet to have a safely defused bomb personally. Plus it would give us a very short list of people to look in the unlikely chance that Sylar targeted him anyways.
Sorry about the tl;dr.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Official Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 12
AsianInvasion - 2 - Cyouni, Wrath_of_DoG - (L-10)
Hunted_Charlie - 5 - Ecophagy, TACKY, red_0mega, joboman, Nom_Anor - (L-7)
joboman - 2 - OneMoreTime, Hunted_Charlie - (L-10)
OneMoreTime - 1 - Ace - (L-11)
StormBlind - 1 - AlphaInsidious - (L-11)
vezokpiraka - 2 - AsianInvasion, tordeck - (L-10)
Players not voting: Archmage_Eternal, Cyan, dracofaust, dropkickdude, falkonn , StormBlind, Syrenz, TheIceMan, vezokpiraka
Make me aware of any mistakes.
Also, use "vote Zionite, unvote Zionite" or "vote Zionite, Vote Xyre". Don't use just 'unvote'. I'll take unvotes automatically if you move your vote to another player.
Sure, a vig could set him off, but I mostly don't want to lynch the claimed survivor day 1.
Nothing becomes all
Here you stand before me
So here shall you fall
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"Just One More Chance"
You have me listed as both voting for Syrenz and not voting. Unvote Syrenz to prevent any furthur confusion.
Just to make my own thougts known about the whole vez situation: I've held off saying anything because I wanted the full story before coming to any conclusion. Also, because I tend to have a bias against vez due to previous play in other games. I think he's dangerous. Not just the fact that he's Ted, or that he's a new player, or that he doesn't know exactly what will set him off, or that he doesn't know what will happen if/when he does go off, or that others could potentially absorb/steal his power and exponentially increase the damage, but he lies. He's lied in both games I've been in with him, once as scum and the other as town. But, he hasn't displayed his characteristic jumpy play here yet (aside from outing himself right off), and claims to want to help the town win, and I too dislike the idea of lynching a neutral on day 1 - especially if they're going to play like a townie. I guess the only conclusion I can come to at the moment is that we have a precarious situation on our hands. Things with vez could literally and figuratively blow up in our collective faces. Ted's presence in the game will get more and more volatile as the game progresses and powers that could potentially deal with him are eliminated. In a vaccuum I'd say we should lynch him now and move on - taking whatever backlash came our way - but apparently TACKY has a "fully fleshed-out" plan that could potentially out some scum, and I'm inclined to let him play it out because I certainly don't have one.
tl;dr - Ted/vez is dangerous and will continue to be more so as the game progresses, but I don't have any plan for how to deal with it. TACKY says he does, and seems town to me, so I'm behind him.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Something about this post is very, very off.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I know you have a history of not liking my posts, but what specifically is off?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
I know I do, but what do you think I could have seen that was different?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
This is the first time I've ever advocated against lynching vez on Day 1?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
You can't accuse someone of having a scummy post, fail to give reasons, then ask that same person to give reasons to why his own post is scummy based on your views.
unvote, Vote joboman
I wasn't asking him for it, I wanted to know what he thought. I do have reasons and I'm going to sit on them for now.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Will you please read the damn wiki so that we do not have to keep giving you basic information? Obviously you have the time...
What the hell?
Are you trying to make him look scummy or yourself look scummy?
smoke_Killah
I'm game.
Vote Hunted Charlie
Potential problem: What if TACKY dies tonight?
Very plausible situation. I'm not worried.
Also, and I hate to do this, but I think role direction is pretty important here: DKD claimed Claire, right? Yeah, he needs protection. Sylar being indestructible = bad news bears.
Off to respond to HC, and post a Town/Scum list. Need to do that before the day ends.
To my knowledge only two people have claimed, and I'm certainly not one of them. Vez claimed Ted Sprague, and falkonn claimed Invisible Man. Where did you think I claimed?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
No, wrong. OMT was actively doing analysis. He was providing analysis on Vezok's playstyle and DKD. You came out an said "seems really scummy" and moved along. Had you provided analysis for your thoughts, I wouldn't have thought anything of it. But your post reeked of opportunism. Others had expressed concern, so you jump in with a smilie and a line about how he's really scummy.
In short, OMT=Early discussion HC=Opportunist Bandwagoning.
They are not empirically denied.
Also, you avoid my question here: What was OMT distracting from so early on? Seems like an excuse to throw around suspicion to me.
You are totally right, it is a good thing to watch out for, but you're overreacting about it. Let your concern be known, sure, but overalarming the town causes panic, thus helps the scum. Town gets panicky, mislynches and the scum are worry free for a while.
You created a 'nervous' situation with the Ted/Claire thing, which could get people riled up, and the whole 'Vezok is totally siding with the scum' bit is an attempt to get his lynch and direct the town. Equating Vezok to scum is terribad.
I repeat: Vezok, a claimed neutral, is not equal to scum AT ALL. The fact that you excuse him off as such is more points against you.
Was Jobo the best case? You seems unsure, unsure enough to ask 'do we bandwagon' in hopes of getting others onboard. In fact, your 'case' on Jobo was mentioning that he was fairly inactive, and you even excused that away by saying that he could just be AFK for a while. It was NOT the best case. Why didn't you go back to OMT or DKD or one of your earlier leads?
And read my points next time please. I said proof (to the best of the town's ability). That's straight from the post, I'm not implying that you need hard proof to case a guy.
Snarky response noted. Also counts as an emotional response, duly noted.
Also, this is yet another contridiction. You claimed earlier in your response to me that you were Providing to the discussion and such. Now you are claiming that it was baseless posting with little evidence so early on. Does anyone else see this (I really wanna know!)
To the point, what I argued was that you told AsianInvasion that it would be silly to outright say "THIS GUY IS TOTALLY SCUM!" so early on. I'm saying that you did that very thing early on. You did it to DKD/OMT. That's the contradiction. It has nothing to do with changing your mind, that's fine. The problem is when you call something scummy without realizing that you are guilty of it.
That's hypocritical. That's contradiction. That's why you're scum, by your logic and mine.
Raises alarm. Also in that same post I reference, you call things/people stupid, specifically Falkonn. You assume the scum are plotting his demise. It's more about attitude and appearance. Getting attention is nice, I used it earlier to highlight some important parts of my Vezok theory.
However, using bold and italicized words to convey a mass warning and then being a negative nancy about how the scum are plotting our demise is fearmongering. Saying people are stupid and having a generally bad disposition about the state of the game help the fearmongering. Negativity is never the answer.
Dude, first, Syrenz called you on it, not sticking to your guns. But, I can see you maybe forgetting the vote, I'll give you that one.
Still doesn't change the fact that the vote was terribad. Using the words "Wagon I suppose?" to convince people to join your cause based on lurking seems scummy. Really scummy.
Oh thank god, for some reason at work today I had myself convinced that you had claimed Claire. I was totally stressing all day that another power role was outed and Sylar was gonna tear this game in two.
I've never seen the TV show, but if it's half as fun as this game, I need to watch it all ASAP.