AI, the game has just started brah. Chillax we're on page four... I think some people haven't even posted yet. At this point in the game, not having done scum hunting is a non-issue.
A mentality of nonchalance when it comes to scum hunting is not a town tell.
He's just too dangerous to keep around. If he's lying(which is quite possible), then we should clearly lynch him, but even if he's telling the truth, he's simply too much of a risk. We don't know how he's triggered or what happens when he blows up, but the signup thread implied him to be a very bad thing.
This reads as "I don't care to defend my actions because other people haven't even done as much as someone else!"
Not liking the man from jobo's posts so far in this game.
Your play so far has been pretty similar to your short town appearance in Duel Monsters ("sling as much mud as possible"), but the misrep in this post is not pro-town in the slightest.
yeah the thing I'm most worried about Vezok is if Sylar should take his ability. I think Issac Mendez may actually have a solution to the problem of the bomb (and I think Vezok was also being warned in "NOTE: Be careful with your role claims. You don't know what your name might mean to others. Roles may rely on finding certain people, so claim with caution.") but Sylar taking his ability before he's dealt with could turn out badly.
Agreed, removing the bomb from the equation seems like a better idea the more I think about it.
I think Sylar can try to kill a person in each night and will get their ability if he is succesful. He can only use one ability each night including his kill which would tone him down a bit. If he wants to use other abilities he can't use his kill. Passive abilities would still be in place though. And if he tries to kill Claire he will just take her ability without killing her. So basically I think he's a standard SK who gains passive abilities and has the option of switching out his kill for an ability at night, which is very powered but I don't think it's neccesarily that overpowered.
@Sylar: Let me know if any of this is wrong please
Seems like what I would have done had I written the roles. Still, to quote the joboman himself...
Why do you say this without putting down a vote of your own?
Good point, forgot that. Vote joboman
@Tacky: "Hm" as in, "OK, this gives me a lot of thought, and I am considering it very much, but there is nothing I feel should be said at this point".
@Everybody voting Vezok: Guys, stop! I'm fine with considering lynching him and thinking more about this, but don't vote him yet. If he is telling the truth that might cause unintended consequences. Use FOSes or something that won't cause game effects.
Agreed, removing the bomb from the equation seems like a better idea the more I think about it.
yeah...I'm still debating whether we want to waste our first lynch on a neutral especially if he could harm us in some way if we lynch him. On the other hand if we don't take care of him now, we're probably going to have to deal with him anyways in the form of Sylar some other time so I think lynching him today is the best option for us.
On:
dropkickdude: Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town. Much more unsure than in Basic #19. "Sucker for approval" line was not referenced in #19.
vezokpiraka: Unlikely to be lying. Probably a bad idea to lynch him. That would count as 'pressure', would it not?
OneMoreTime: Much less obvtown than he was in Basic #20. More ad hom attacks. Gets better as time goes by. But still...
joboman: He's still being really bad at this. Need to test certain scenarios to find read.
falkonn: WTF. Prob town, but still.
Sylar: I'm told that there has been precedent for an ability-absorbing SK. It was mentioned in Asphodel Meadows, but I don't know the game it was in.
Zionite also said that this game was very flavour-accurate.
@Tacky: "Hm" as in, "OK, this gives me a lot of thought, and I am considering it very much, but there is nothing I feel should be said at this point".
@Everybody voting Vezok: Guys, stop! I'm fine with considering lynching him and thinking more about this, but don't vote him yet. If he is telling the truth that might cause unintended consequences. Use FOSes or something that won't cause game effects.
Okay, now you've crossed the line into very scummy. This last post was really, really bad.
Fearmongering about Vezok? Unwilling to scumhunt? Defence of possible scumbuddy (Vezok could do something as hairbrained as this)
@Everybody voting Vezok: Guys, stop! I'm fine with considering lynching him and thinking more about this, but don't vote him yet. If he is telling the truth that might cause unintended consequences. Use FOSes or something that won't cause game effects
Highly unlikely that merely voting him does anything. Actually lynching him might cause something but I doubt votes do anything.
On the subject of lynching Vezok being bad for us, I believe targeting him will have negative consequences but I can easily see him adding in the "any pressure" including a lynch just to deter us from lynching him.
vezokpiraka is definitely a neutral and definitely not someone we want around.
Any speculation that lynching him would cause something bad to happen is fearmongering as vezok has only stated that targeting him causes his ability to trigger. It's probably something like "If you get targeted 20 times over the course of the game, you kill all other players and win."
I'd be highly surprised if lynching him does anything. At worst, he would kill the person who hammered, super-saint style. As such, I nominate Hunted Charlie to be the player to hammer vezokpiraka, just in case.
vezokpiraka is definitely a neutral and definitely not someone we want around.
Any speculation that lynching him would cause something bad to happen is fearmongering as vezok has only stated that targeting him causes his ability to trigger. It's probably something like "If you get targeted 20 times over the course of the game, you kill all other players and win."
I'd be highly surprised if lynching him does anything. At worst, he would kill the person who hammered, super-saint style. As such, I nominate Hunted Charlie to be the player to hammer vezokpiraka, just in case.
That doesn't make sense though AInv, as he said that he pretty much doesn't want to be targetted. No way he'd say that if he wants to be targetted. He would be better playing scummy and luring cop investigations. It really doesn't make sense the way you outline it.
I can see how H_C is scummy. He's quick to judge others when he does the same thing himself (voting early, etc).
yeah...I'm still debating whether we want to waste our first lynch on a neutral especially if he could harm us in some way if we lynch him. On the other hand if we don't take care of him now, we're probably going to have to deal with him anyways in the form of Sylar some other time so I think lynching him today is the best option for us.
The Bolded are great reasons not to lynch. The Bolded and Italicized is the only thing to worry about. This lynch on D1 would FOR SURE set us back by not being a scum lynch and will PROBABLY set us back from negative effects caused by it.
Now, this part games the mod quite a bit, but I doubt Zionite would create a situation where the SK (Assuming that Sylar is the SK here) can win the game by N1, or even make it incredibly difficult to overcome.
Finally, a quote: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." If Sylar has a goal to find an kill this all-important Bombman, I'm sure there is someone with a similar but opposite goal. This game probably has built in saftey measures.
All in all, I think lynching Vezok today is a bad idea. Maybe in the following days depending on night results, but a living breathing bomb seems better than bomb-go-off.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
dropkickdude: Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town. Much more unsure than in Basic #19. "Sucker for approval" line was not referenced in #19
I'm much more unsure of myself now because I was wrong just about every time in #19 (much to the annoyance of my ego). I didn't explicitly come out and say "sucker for approval" but I did pre-emptively try to disperse suspicion of me before there actually was any. I thought that my track record of being wrong would obviously lead to suspicion, but I was informed that it was typically scummy to try to nip it in the bud ahead of time, especially because being wrong isn't always scummy.
All I did was point out that someone had (perhaps unintentionally - perhaps not) let slip who they were in a game where roles are very important (due to presumed presence of Peter and Sylar). When it was pointed out that the town could not have gained anything by this, I realized my error and gave the reasons behind what I did. I made a mistake, I admit it. I was overzealous in my attempt to notice something out of the ordinary. My question to anyone who still thinks I'm scummy is what would I be gaining as scum by doing the same thing?
Highly unlikely that merely voting him does anything. Actually lynching him might cause something but I doubt votes do anything.
To me, pressure = votes. When we want to pressure somebody, we put votes on them. This is why I'm nervous about voting him. I very well might be wrong, and I'm not ruling out Vezok as a possibility, but I would still feel more comfortable with a smaller chance of the bomb going off Day 1.
The Bolded are great reasons not to lynch. The Bolded and Italicized is the only thing to worry about. This lynch on D1 would FOR SURE set us back by not being a scum lynch and will PROBABLY set us back from negative effects caused by it.
This pretty much summarizes my opinion on the matter. There is one way a Vezok lynch makes sense today: if he is lying, and is actually scum. This is a possibility that we need to consider first, however, because it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral.
To me, Ted doesn't seem like a scum character, and he's too likely to be in this game to comfortably falseclaim him (because of the chance of a counterclaim). Which is why I'm leaning towards Vezok telling the truth.
@People Voting/Paw of Suspicioning me: People voting me have for the most part just been saying things like "Hunted Charlie is probably scum" (AsianInvasion), "hm" (Syrenz), or "This last post was really, really bad." (joboman). So I'm just going to leave that until I have something substantial to respond to.
He's just too dangerous to keep around. If he's lying(which is quite possible), then we should clearly lynch him, but even if he's telling the truth, he's simply too much of a risk. We don't know how he's triggered or what happens when he blows up, but the signup thread implied him to be a very bad thing.
What are the positive outcomes of lynching Vezo? We get rid of something that is potentially very dangerous. Just from the flavor it seems like this would be almost as good as a scum lynch.
What are the negative outcomes of lynching Vezo? We get hurt in some way, or we make something really bad happen. I know that's fairly unclear, but I'd think if we started to put pressure on Vezo he would be quick to clarify in what respect we're going to get hurt, if any, by lynching him.
Quote from AlienInvasion »
vezokpiraka is definitely a neutral and definitely not someone we want around.
Any speculation that lynching him would cause something bad to happen is fearmongering as vezok has only stated that targeting him causes his ability to trigger. It's probably something like "If you get targeted 20 times over the course of the game, you kill all other players and win."
I'd be highly surprised if lynching him does anything. At worst, he would kill the person who hammered, super-saint style. As such, I nominate Hunted Charlie to be the player to hammer vezokpiraka, just in case.
I'm going to barn Ace and say that doesn't make sense. Vezo was not under a lot of pressure to claim, yet he did, so it seems pretty unlikely that he's lying. He says not to pressure him, but he actually wants people to target him? I don't buy it.
Quote from TACKY »
The Bolded are great reasons not to lynch. The Bolded and Italicized is the only thing to worry about. This lynch on D1 would FOR SURE set us back by not being a scum lynch and will PROBABLY set us back from negative effects caused by it.
It's hardly a waste considering how dangerous he sounds to keep around, especially due to any possible speculated interaction with Sylar.
Unless something bad happens for voting Vezo (I doubt this), I want more information about his role. That way we can make an informed decision about whether to get rid of him now, or whether it's OK to keep him around for a while. Anyone saying we should or shouldn't lynch him right at this moment is being far too speculative.
EBWOP: Vezo knows there are people who want to get rid of him. You'd think if something bad happened from voting him he'd have told us by now, in an attempt at self-preservation?
There is the possibility that he actually doesn't know. There has been precedent for mods keeping things from players.
Furthermore, Zionite has said that the game is incredibly flavour-accurate. Ted doesn't have the best control of his powers.
EBWOP: Vezo knows there are people who want to get rid of him. You'd think if something bad happened from voting him he'd have told us by now, in an attempt at self-preservation?
I'd hope so. But actually Vezok hasn't posted for a long while, so he might just not be monitoring the game. Either way, I think this is probably one of the few cases where more information revealed would help, not hurt us. I'm still against a Vezok lynch, but let's just get all of the doubt out of the way. I support a Vezok full-claim.
Is there a consensus that Vezok should do a complete claim now? If so, let's get that done.
"We all imagine ourselves the agents of our destiny, capable of determining our own fate. But have we truly any choice in when we rise or when we fall? Or does a force larger than ourselves bid us our direction? Is it evolution that takes us by the hand? Does science point our way? Or is it God who intervenes, keeping us safe?"
That doesn't make sense though AInv, as he said that he pretty much doesn't want to be targetted. No way he'd say that if he wants to be targetted. He would be better playing scummy and luring cop investigations. It really doesn't make sense the way you outline it.
I know I said earlier that Zionite probably told vezokpiraka exactly what happens if he's targeted, I'm now inclined to believe that vezok actually has no idea what happens, but merely that it will involve things getting blown up. If this is the case, that kind of secret doomsday trigger (or even something less dramatic, such "If you are targeted 10 or more times over the course of the game, kill each player who targeted you.") is perfectly possible given the breadcrumbing Zionite did in the PM.
EWP: 'nathed by Cyouni.
The Bolded are great reasons not to lynch. The Bolded and Italicized is the only thing to worry about. This lynch on D1 would FOR SURE set us back by not being a scum lynch and will PROBABLY set us back from negative effects caused by it.
Now, this part games the mod quite a bit, but I doubt Zionite would create a situation where the SK (Assuming that Sylar is the SK here) can win the game by N1, or even make it incredibly difficult to overcome.
Finally, a quote: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." If Sylar has a goal to find an kill this all-important Bombman, I'm sure there is someone with a similar but opposite goal. This game probably has built in saftey measures.
All in all, I think lynching Vezok today is a bad idea. Maybe in the following days depending on night results, but a living breathing bomb seems better than bomb-go-off.
Your concerns seem to stem from a genuine town mindset, but I think you fails to recognize an important factor. Assuming Sylar is on a mission to kill Ted (not unlikely), don't you think it's better to simply not let Sylar get to him than say, "Oh, well Zionite couldn't possibly design the game like this!" That kind of mod-gaming is highly unwise, as I'm positive he didn't expect Ted to come forward on D1, seeing as how claimed Survivors are almost always killed by the town.
Before you respond that a doc would be able to protect Ted, think for a minute about what that entails. Do we really want the doc (if we even have one) to waste a protection on a neutral who's being killed by another neutral? Shouldn't the doc be protecting town from mafia?
Everything about the "let vezok live" plan is riskier than simply lynching him now. The only downsides I foresee to lynching him are the potential for the player who hammers to die (which can be a boon if we force a scum to hammer) and the lack of information regarding the wagon because both town and scum will want him dead.
To me, pressure = votes. When we want to pressure somebody, we put votes on them. This is why I'm nervous about voting him. I very well might be wrong, and I'm not ruling out Vezok as a possibility, but I would still feel more comfortable with a smaller chance of the bomb going off Day 1.
Except vezok said nothing about votes triggering his ability. He only mentioned that him getting targeted was bad. You're connecting dots because they happen to be next to each other, even though they're not in order.
This pretty much summarizes my opinion on the matter. There is one way a Vezok lynch makes sense today: if he is lying, and is actually scum. This is a possibility that we need to consider first, however, because it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral.
To me, Ted doesn't seem like a scum character, and he's too likely to be in this game to comfortably falseclaim him (because of the chance of a counterclaim). Which is why I'm leaning towards Vezok telling the truth.
I know vezok is a relatively new player, but he'd have to be abysmal (read: worse than anyone who's ever played this game) to false-claim Ted as scum given that the mod has all but confirmed Ted's presence in this game via the sign-up thread. Given this obvious fact, your conclusion that as a neutral he's not worth lynching is faulty. You're more afraid of what would happen if he were lynched than what would happen if his ability were to trigger or if he were killed by Sylar. We know for a fact that something bad happens if he's targeted. We can safely surmise that something bad happens if Sylar kills him. We have no information as to what will happen if he is lynched. None. Everything so far has been speculation.
Also, what kind of statement is "it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral?" I'm pretty sure threats to the town should be removed before they can come to fruition.
@People Voting/Paw of Suspicioning me: People voting me have for the most part just been saying things like "Hunted Charlie is probably scum" (AsianInvasion), "hm" (Syrenz), or "This last post was really, really bad." (joboman). So I'm just going to leave that until I have something substantial to respond to.
Actually I outlined my problems with you already, specifically that you were fence-sitting and your attitude read as if you couldn't be bothered to scum hunt, coasting along being your preferred method of play.
Does he normally play like this or is this really scummy? I'm calling "really scummy". He seems super nervous.
This post, in reference to DKD's first "I want good attention" post, is pretty quick for 60 posts in. Yeah, DKD's post was enough to arouse a little suspicion, but Charlie jumps right in, not seeing the noobieness, and lables it really scummy. It's opportunist. I'll admit that I was surprised a little by DKD's comment, but Obvscum was far from my first though, especially that early on.
One more thought: OneMoreTime's posts #64 and #65 smell scummy too. They're calling attention away from the discussion to other players. "Hey look, a distraction!"
Once again, he does some pretty deep analysis for 65 posts into the game.
Charlie, would you mind telling us what OMT was distracting away from so early in the game? What were the pressing issues? Pretty sure that any discussion that early in the game is productive, and OMT was scumhunting, even if it was his awkward style of doing so. That on top of you pinning down two scum in two consecutive posts. Seems ambitious for 60 posts in.
Wow, this game just blew up (pun intended). Unless someone counterclaims, I'm inclined to believe everything vezokpiraka is saying.
I think the smart play with vezokpiraka for now is to leave him alone, but be very careful not to forget him. It's important to remember that the scum could set him off if it seemed like it might benefit them, or he might side with scum if it helps him.
Sidenote: I stopped watching Heroes midway through Season 3, but I thought Ted was the only guy who ever managed to really hurt Claire? Something about that makes me nervous.
So vezokpiraka is out of the hunt. I'm not sure I agree with everybody saying DKD and OneMoreTime are definitely noob town, but it does seem like that's just as likely as noob scum. So I agree that there's no point bandwagoning against them now. Unvote
Does some fearmongering a bit here, mostly with the Claire part, partly with the 'Vezok joins the scum' part. Does some fencesitting on DKD/OMT.
On Syrenz "fishing": Honestly it didn't seem like much of a scumtell to me. It seemed like he just wanted some clarification. It's understandable and I don't think its a strong tell, but I think we should agree at this point to STOP REVEALING/ASKING FOR UNNECESSARY INFORMATION, people. The mod even put in the rules to "claim with caution", but already we've got multiple claims. That just seems stupid.
On falkonn's claim: Sigh. Well now the scum are sure to be hard at work on figuring out how to target you. That was just stupid, see above paragraph.
On joboman: I agree he's sorta just barning and staying quiet. Could just mean he's busy, but since we don't really have a ton of strong leads right now I guess he's the best we've got. Wagon I suppose?
On AsianInvasion: Yup, I do think we should stay watchful on vezokpiraka. And yes, I am not utterly convinced, like everybody else is, that DKD or OneMoreTime are definite town. I don't see these positions as issues in any way. To say I'm "super sure this guy is the scum!!!!!!1111" would just be a lie at this point. There isn't enough evidence yet for a strong wagon on anybody.
On Syrenz's guess of Sylar's abilities: Hm.
Ok this post has some fun.
First, The Joboman case. Look at how indifferent he is with Joboman. He's staying silent, but that could be for a good reason. The "Wagon?" comment is terrible, mostly because he's advocating a train on a player based off of little reasoning, and he's not even willing to stand behind it all the way. He's also saying that this is what we should do since we have nothing better to do. Well, Charlie may not have anything better to do, but the town can ALWAYS scumhunt. We don't train a player for the hell of it. We train them because they have been proven (to the best of the town's ability) as scum. Like I'm doing to you now.
Second, His response to AsianInvasion brings contradictions. He's not convinced that DMD/OMT are town, but won't outright call them scummy here. Yet he did that in his second post of the game, specifically in the DMD attack, where he ended up calling him "really scummy". He then goes on right after that, in his 3rd post of the game, to say that OMT smells pretty scummy too. Contradiction of his earlier play.
Finally, there is a bit of fearmongering with the crazy bold statement and the comment on Falkonn. I agree that falkonn or anyone else claiming is bad, but this is freakout level IMO. Bad post in general and one to be considered.
@Tacky: "Hm" as in, "OK, this gives me a lot of thought, and I am considering it very much, but there is nothing I feel should be said at this point".
@Everybody voting Vezok: Guys, stop! I'm fine with considering lynching him and thinking more about this, but don't vote him yet. If he is telling the truth that might cause unintended consequences. Use FOSes or something that won't cause game effects.
Throws on the vote for Joboman. Remember how he was so indifferent about that in his last post? Yeah, he's voting here because he has nothing better to do.
And the "Hm" comment raises my eyebrow. If he has nothing to say about it, the Hm is unneeded. Yet it's there. It's like a thought placeholder for something much more important. It like subconscious thought on the internet. A freudian slip, if you will. He feels like he has to comment on it, probably because it's personally important to him. It reads as a fake feeling, a comment of appearances. You know what I mean?
@People Voting/Paw of Suspicioning me: People voting me have for the most part just been saying things like "Hunted Charlie is probably scum" (AsianInvasion), "hm" (Syrenz), or "This last post was really, really bad." (joboman). So I'm just going to leave that until I have something substantial to respond to.
Well, here's more substance for you. You have something to do now, don't you feel better?
Vote Hunted Charlie
@Mod: Votecount Plox?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
Even after all that...
EBWoP: I see who you're voting for Ace. You should probably reevaluate that vote or defend it.
I meant to say that "claimed Survivors who are revealed on D1 are almost always killed by the town." Obviously later on the town needs to focus on lynching mafia.
I made a couple grammatical errors that I won't bother fixing...I think I need a nap.
@AsianInvasion: I think the revealing of Ted puts the town at a specific strategic advantage. We can plan around him. We have the gift of foresight that we wouldn't have otherwise. I think we can use this to our advantage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
Also @AsianInvasion: Care to explain why TheIceMan is town? Just cause he votes Vezok? Cause like you said, both town and scum would want to kill Vezok, so isn't that more like a null tell?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
To me, pressure = votes. When we want to pressure somebody, we put votes on them. This is why I'm nervous about voting him. I very well might be wrong, and I'm not ruling out Vezok as a possibility, but I would still feel more comfortable with a smaller chance of the bomb going off Day 1.
This pretty much summarizes my opinion on the matter. There is one way a Vezok lynch makes sense today: if he is lying, and is actually scum. This is a possibility that we need to consider first, however, because it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral.
To me, Ted doesn't seem like a scum character, and he's too likely to be in this game to comfortably falseclaim him (because of the chance of a counterclaim). Which is why I'm leaning towards Vezok telling the truth.
@People Voting/Paw of Suspicioning me: People voting me have for the most part just been saying things like "Hunted Charlie is probably scum" (AsianInvasion), "hm" (Syrenz), or "This last post was really, really bad." (joboman). So I'm just going to leave that until I have something substantial to respond to.
The "hm" was me not being sure that I believe you.
@AsianInvasion: I think the revealing of Ted puts the town at a specific strategic advantage. We can plan around him. We have the gift of foresight that we wouldn't have otherwise. I think we can use this to our advantage.
I don't see how we can use Ted. The safest thing to do is to deal with him as soon as possible.
@AsianInvasion: I think the revealing of Ted puts the town at a specific strategic advantage. We can plan around him. We have the gift of foresight that we wouldn't have otherwise. I think we can use this to our advantage.
OK, I am getting strong town vibes from you.
My thoughts on vezokpiraka:
We don't want him getting targeted.
We don't want him getting de-brained.
We want him to die.
It's basically as simple as that. I plan to ignore any and all fearmongering and advocate the correct decision. vezok's full claim is unlikely to change the simple fact that he's a huge risk and needs to be eliminated, but he should still reveal any aspects of his role that aren't public information (though I get the feeling he's told us everything he knows).
Also @AsianInvasion: Care to explain why TheIceMan is town? Just cause he votes Vezok? Cause like you said, both town and scum would want to kill Vezok, so isn't that more like a null tell?
The vote alone was a null tell, but when you read his post it comes off strongly from a town perspective. Or at least that's the impression I got, I could be wrong. Reread and get back to me if you disagree.
Kill him tomorrow. Plan is still in development. I agree he's a risk, I agree he should die at some point. Just make that day D2. As of now, he's an asset.
Let's lynch scum today. Lynch Charlie. Obvscum is obvious.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks to SGT_Chubbz and Kracked Graphics for the Avvy and Banner!
Kill him tomorrow. Plan is still in development. I agree he's a risk, I agree he should die at some point. Just make that day D2. As of now, he's an asset.
Let's lynch scum today. Lynch Charlie. Obvscum is obvious.
You lost me. How does this address the danger that Sylar will try to kill him? Get back to me when this plan is fleshed out.
Kill him tomorrow. Plan is still in development. I agree he's a risk, I agree he should die at some point. Just make that day D2. As of now, he's an asset.
Let's lynch scum today. Lynch Charlie. Obvscum is obvious.
No; although I agree charlie is quite suspicious, it is better to get rid of Vez today instead of tomorrow. Overnight, he could blow up, have his powers copied by Sylar or Peter (or possibly someone else; I only watched the first season of heroes, and it was when it first came out), or perhaps have something we aren't expecting happen.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Except vezok said nothing about votes triggering his ability. He only mentioned that him getting targeted was bad. You're connecting dots because they happen to be next to each other, even though they're not in order.
Perhaps I've been mistaken, but I thought that his mention of targeting was just a guess? I thought he was just throwing that out there as a possibility. If that's confirmed to be his only way to explode obviously a vezok lynch would make much more sense (still secondary to a true scum lynch IMO, but a good backup plan).
This post, in reference to DKD's first "I want good attention" post, is pretty quick for 60 posts in. Yeah, DKD's post was enough to arouse a little suspicion, but Charlie jumps right in, not seeing the noobieness, and lables it really scummy. It's opportunist.
[...]
Charlie, would you mind telling us what OMT was distracting away from so early in the game? What were the pressing issues? Pretty sure that any discussion that early in the game is productive, and OMT was scumhunting, even if it was his awkward style of doing so.
In part one of this, you say I shouldn't be calling DKD scummy based on such an early post. In part two, you say that scumhunting is good and any discussion early on is productive. These two positions seem incompatible logically, as my first post was of the scumhunting, early discussion variety. Actually, my and OMT's posts were similar in that regard.
Does some fearmongering a bit here, mostly with the Claire part, partly with the 'Vezok joins the scum' part.
This term "fearmongering" is being thrown around a lot this game. I'm unsure how raising the possibility of a neutral turning on us is a bad thing, since it's absolutely a good thing to watch out for. And I'm not sure how raising suspicions of Vezok would help the scum, either.
Well, Charlie may not have anything better to do, but the town can ALWAYS scumhunt. We don't train a player for the hell of it. We train them because they have been proven (to the best of the town's ability) as scum. Like I'm doing to you now.
Proof is impossible in a discussion-based game like this, and evidence is continually building from Day 1. Stronger cases can be made as the game goes on. Therefore, the decision of where to hunt is not based on finding a perfect case but on finding the best possible case at that time. Jobo was the best possible case at that time.
Second, His response to AsianInvasion brings contradictions. He's not convinced that DMD/OMT are town, but won't outright call them scummy here. Yet he did that in his second post of the game, specifically in the DMD attack, where he ended up calling him "really scummy". He then goes on right after that, in his 3rd post of the game, to say that OMT smells pretty scummy too. Contradiction of his earlier play.
Right, that's because that was my third post of the game, during the early phase with little evidence. Permission to change my mind, sir?
Finally, there is a bit of fearmongering with the crazy bold statement and the comment on Falkonn. I agree that falkonn or anyone else claiming is bad, but this is freakout level IMO. Bad post in general and one to be considered.
Again this word. Yes, having two people claim in the first two real-life days of a game like this is bad. I am again unclear about why you think bolding or underlining it makes it "fearmongering".
Throws on the vote for Joboman. Remember how he was so indifferent about that in his last post? Yeah, he's voting here because he has nothing better to do.
Indifferent? I suggested we start a bandwagon on him. I forgot to vote and quickly remedied my error.
And the "Hm" comment raises my eyebrow. If he has nothing to say about it, the Hm is unneeded. Yet it's there. It's like a thought placeholder for something much more important. It like subconscious thought on the internet. A freudian slip, if you will. He feels like he has to comment on it, probably because it's personally important to him. It reads as a fake feeling, a comment of appearances. You know what I mean?
I had nothing to say on it, but want edit to be noted and inputted into the town consciousness as rather odd. Which it was. How exactly does the concept of a Freudian slip play into this?
Anyway, I think the case against me is unquestionably weak but it is true that our other options are limited. It seems like me, Zevok, and joboman are the three possibilities at this point. If I have indeed misunderstood Zevok's claim, he could be a good potential lynch. Joboman is giving off scum vibes but I've got to go through and see whether there's a true case or that's just me.
A lot happend while i was gone...
Vezoks playing the way he did in a basic game i played with him. If we assume that he's telling the truth about being Ted i think we need more information about his role and to do this we have to pressure him. I doubt just voting him will trigger his ability. vote vezok
@Tacky: We may be able to use Ted but now scum knows about him too so they can also use him. and as mentioned before Sylar might be able to use ted to his advantage overnight.
Dkd made a couple of mistakes early on but i believe that hes town.
Charlie(hunted) is looking very suspicious especially because he 'forgot' to vote after proposing a wagon. But I'd like to have more information about vezok's role first to see whether we can risk letting vezok live through the day.
Sorry I haven't been around guys. I went to sleep as soon as I got home from work last night. I don't have much time now, but I really wanted to check in. I hate doing this, but based on the nature of this game and this...
NOTE: Be careful with your role claims. You don't know what your name might mean to others. Roles may rely on finding certain people, so claim with caution.
I feel like the best thing for me to do is do a semi-claim.
That made you think that claiming would be a good idea?
On:
dropkickdude: Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town. Much more unsure than in Basic #19. "Sucker for approval" line was not referenced in #19.
vezokpiraka: Unlikely to be lying. Probably a bad idea to lynch him. That would count as 'pressure', would it not?
OneMoreTime: Much less obvtown than he was in Basic #20. More ad hom attacks. Gets better as time goes by. But still...
joboman: He's still being really bad at this. Need to test certain scenarios to find read.
falkonn: WTF. Prob town, but still.
SO, basically you are on the fence about all of them?
Kill him tomorrow. Plan is still in development. I agree he's a risk, I agree he should die at some point. Just make that day D2. As of now, he's an asset.
Let's lynch scum today. Lynch Charlie. Obvscum is obvious.
I could go for this. Even though we should obviously try to get rid of him, I did not want to make vezokpiraka the priority today, and if TACKY thinks he can come up with a plan to make him useful, I think we should give it another day and focus on scum.
On that note, Vote: Hunted Charlie
SO, basically you are on the fence about all of them?
Nice misrep. You did read the part where it says falkonn is town? You also read the part where I said DKD is town? And you did read the part where it says I believe vezok?
On:
dropkickdude: Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town. Much more unsure than in Basic #19. "Sucker for approval" line was not referenced in #19.
vezokpiraka: Unlikely to be lying. Probably a bad idea to lynch him. That would count as 'pressure', would it not?
OneMoreTime: Much less obvtown than he was in Basic #20. More ad hom attacks. Gets better as time goes by. But still...
joboman: He's still being really bad at this. Need to test certain scenarios to find read.
falkonn: WTF. Prob town, but still.
I could go for this. Even though we should obviously try to get rid of him, I did not want to make vezokpiraka the priority today, and if TACKY thinks he can come up with a plan to make him useful, I think we should give it another day and focus on scum.
On that note, Vote: Hunted Charlie
When I spend time to make a post refuting points made against me, it would be polite to read, consider, and respond to that before mindlessly bandwagoning.
When I spend time to make a post refuting points made against me, it would be polite to read, consider, and respond to that before mindlessly bandwagoning.
Actually you posted that while I was posting mine. I did read it though, and I find your counter-arguments thoroughly unconvincing.
I'm going to reread the case on Hunted Charlie, but in the meantime I stand by my earlier comments that Vezok should tell us everything he knows (do a full claim). We really need to know what we're dealing with here, specifically what he means when he says "gets stressed."
I am getting a strong suspicion that HC and joboman are scumbuddies. Not only are they both being independently scummy, but HC's "Jobo's being scummy", but only voting when it's pointed out that he hasn't is really bad. Jobo did something similar, but I can't actually recall it.
I am totally happy to see either of them die.
On Vezo/Ted: I don't think a lynch is the best idea. Gradual application of "pressure" in the form of votes could end up very messily, and while I don't see a mod creating a game that could end day 1 with an "everybody dies", I wouldn't be surprised to see, say, half the wagon blow up too.
Therefore, I have a proposal. The Haitian should target Vezo tonight, and - if possible - permanently remove Vezo's ability. Because this might not be possible, a vig should also target Ted.
It's plausible that the Haitian is mafia. Hopefully, you can see that the advantage of the world not blowing up is worth co-operating with the town, especially night 1.
Net result: Ted can't go boom because of the Haitian, then Ted goes Die from a vig. Problem solved.
The one issue is that Sylar + Ted = bad. In order to try and rectify this, we should have a watcher watch Ted - He'd see the Haitian, the vig and Sylar. This seems like a good deal to me. I should point out to Sylar that you targeting Ted is unwise, given that a watcher is a common role, and you being narrowed down at all basically means that you lose.
(also, Syrenz: A while ago, I put down some ideas for a Heroes mafia, and my Sylar worked exactly like you laid out, so it doesn't seem so far-fetched that Zionite had a similar idea)
In part one of this, you say I shouldn't be calling DKD scummy based on such an early post. In part two, you say that scumhunting is good and any discussion early on is productive. These two positions seem incompatible logically, as my first post was of the scumhunting, early discussion variety. Actually, my and OMT's posts were similar in that regard.
The problem is that the level of your response was not appropriate for how early it was in the game. No one cares that you had an opinion (in fact the discussion is good), just that you labeled a couple players obvious scum with very little evidence to go on.
This term "fearmongering" is being thrown around a lot this game. I'm unsure how raising the possibility of a neutral turning on us is a bad thing, since it's absolutely a good thing to watch out for. And I'm not sure how raising suspicions of Vezok would help the scum, either.
The problem with fearmongering is that, like baseless speculation, it masquerades as actual content. While I don't actually find what you had to say entirely worthless, speculating on a possible interaction between two characters, when we know nothing about one and very little about the other, doesn't seem like the best use of our time.
Quote from »
Again this word. Yes, having two people claim in the first two real-life days of a game like this is bad. I am again unclear about why you think bolding or underlining it makes it "fearmongering".
While I do agree with your annoyance at the two claims, and the amount of use we're giving to the buzzword "fearmongering," I don't agree with your blanket statement about no more information. For instance, please explain how it would be harmful for Vezo to right now tell us everything he knows?
I had nothing to say on it, but want edit to be noted and inputted into the town consciousness as rather odd. Which it was. How exactly does the concept of a Freudian slip play into this?
The only time I say "Hm" is when I find something interesting or notable. I think Freudian Slip might have been too strong, but the word you've used generally denotes some sort of opinion or feeling. I find it hard to believe that you wrote "Hm" just to make sure we took note.
I think the case has some merit, but I think our priority should be with Vezo right now.
I am getting a strong suspicion that HC and joboman are scumbuddies. Not only are they both being independently scummy, but HC's "Jobo's being scummy", but only voting when it's pointed out that he hasn't is really bad. Jobo did something similar, but I can't actually recall it.
I am totally happy to see either of them die.
On Vezo/Ted: I don't think a lynch is the best idea. Gradual application of "pressure" in the form of votes could end up very messily, and while I don't see a mod creating a game that could end day 1 with an "everybody dies", I wouldn't be surprised to see, say, half the wagon blow up too.
Therefore, I have a proposal. The Haitian should target Vezo tonight, and - if possible - permanently remove Vezo's ability. Because this might not be possible, a vig should also target Ted.
It's plausible that the Haitian is mafia. Hopefully, you can see that the advantage of the world not blowing up is worth co-operating with the town, especially night 1.
Net result: Ted can't go boom because of the Haitian, then Ted goes Die from a vig. Problem solved.
The one issue is that Sylar + Ted = bad. In order to try and rectify this, we should have a watcher watch Ted - He'd see the Haitian, the vig and Sylar. This seems like a good deal to me. I should point out to Sylar that you targeting Ted is unwise, given that a watcher is a common role, and you being narrowed down at all basically means that you lose.
(also, Syrenz: A while ago, I put down some ideas for a Heroes mafia, and my Sylar worked exactly like you laid out, so it doesn't seem so far-fetched that Zionite had a similar idea)
How on earth can you think to game the mod so much, Eco? That's ridiculously bad. "Don't assume powers based on flavour, but don't discount them" should be the rule of thumb. That doesn't grant you the ability to not only predict abilities, but neither to direct them. :/
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
A mentality of nonchalance when it comes to scum hunting is not a town tell.
100% correct.
Your play so far has been pretty similar to your short town appearance in Duel Monsters ("sling as much mud as possible"), but the misrep in this post is not pro-town in the slightest.
Agreed, removing the bomb from the equation seems like a better idea the more I think about it.
Seems like what I would have done had I written the roles. Still, to quote the joboman himself...
Maybe because he's scum?
@Hunted Charlie: What's with the Hm? Your last post gives me hints at why others seems to think you are scum.
As for Vezok, I think it's best not to lynch him. I think there is a way to make this work for the town.
@Tacky: "Hm" as in, "OK, this gives me a lot of thought, and I am considering it very much, but there is nothing I feel should be said at this point".
@Everybody voting Vezok: Guys, stop! I'm fine with considering lynching him and thinking more about this, but don't vote him yet. If he is telling the truth that might cause unintended consequences. Use FOSes or something that won't cause game effects.
yeah...I'm still debating whether we want to waste our first lynch on a neutral especially if he could harm us in some way if we lynch him. On the other hand if we don't take care of him now, we're probably going to have to deal with him anyways in the form of Sylar some other time so I think lynching him today is the best option for us.
Unvote, Vote Vezokpiraka
Don't want to end the day just yet though.
Maybe. I'll let him respond.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
On:
dropkickdude: Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town. Much more unsure than in Basic #19. "Sucker for approval" line was not referenced in #19.
vezokpiraka: Unlikely to be lying. Probably a bad idea to lynch him. That would count as 'pressure', would it not?
OneMoreTime: Much less obvtown than he was in Basic #20. More ad hom attacks. Gets better as time goes by. But still...
joboman: He's still being really bad at this. Need to test certain scenarios to find read.
falkonn: WTF. Prob town, but still.
Sylar: I'm told that there has been precedent for an ability-absorbing SK. It was mentioned in Asphodel Meadows, but I don't know the game it was in.
Zionite also said that this game was very flavour-accurate.
Okay, now you've crossed the line into very scummy. This last post was really, really bad.
Fearmongering about Vezok? Unwilling to scumhunt? Defence of possible scumbuddy (Vezok could do something as hairbrained as this)
I'm happy with Unvoteing and Voteing Vezok.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
hm.
Paw of Suspicion: Hunted Charlie
Highly unlikely that merely voting him does anything. Actually lynching him might cause something but I doubt votes do anything.
On the subject of lynching Vezok being bad for us, I believe targeting him will have negative consequences but I can easily see him adding in the "any pressure" including a lynch just to deter us from lynching him.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
vezokpiraka is definitely a neutral and definitely not someone we want around.
Any speculation that lynching him would cause something bad to happen is fearmongering as vezok has only stated that targeting him causes his ability to trigger. It's probably something like "If you get targeted 20 times over the course of the game, you kill all other players and win."
I'd be highly surprised if lynching him does anything. At worst, he would kill the person who hammered, super-saint style. As such, I nominate Hunted Charlie to be the player to hammer vezokpiraka, just in case.
/barn
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I can see how H_C is scummy. He's quick to judge others when he does the same thing himself (voting early, etc).
The Bolded are great reasons not to lynch. The Bolded and Italicized is the only thing to worry about. This lynch on D1 would FOR SURE set us back by not being a scum lynch and will PROBABLY set us back from negative effects caused by it.
Now, this part games the mod quite a bit, but I doubt Zionite would create a situation where the SK (Assuming that Sylar is the SK here) can win the game by N1, or even make it incredibly difficult to overcome.
Finally, a quote: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." If Sylar has a goal to find an kill this all-important Bombman, I'm sure there is someone with a similar but opposite goal. This game probably has built in saftey measures.
All in all, I think lynching Vezok today is a bad idea. Maybe in the following days depending on night results, but a living breathing bomb seems better than bomb-go-off.
It's supposed to refer to Sylar being the one bad thing.
I'm much more unsure of myself now because I was wrong just about every time in #19 (much to the annoyance of my ego). I didn't explicitly come out and say "sucker for approval" but I did pre-emptively try to disperse suspicion of me before there actually was any. I thought that my track record of being wrong would obviously lead to suspicion, but I was informed that it was typically scummy to try to nip it in the bud ahead of time, especially because being wrong isn't always scummy.
All I did was point out that someone had (perhaps unintentionally - perhaps not) let slip who they were in a game where roles are very important (due to presumed presence of Peter and Sylar). When it was pointed out that the town could not have gained anything by this, I realized my error and gave the reasons behind what I did. I made a mistake, I admit it. I was overzealous in my attempt to notice something out of the ordinary. My question to anyone who still thinks I'm scummy is what would I be gaining as scum by doing the same thing?
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
This pretty much summarizes my opinion on the matter. There is one way a Vezok lynch makes sense today: if he is lying, and is actually scum. This is a possibility that we need to consider first, however, because it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral.
To me, Ted doesn't seem like a scum character, and he's too likely to be in this game to comfortably falseclaim him (because of the chance of a counterclaim). Which is why I'm leaning towards Vezok telling the truth.
@People Voting/Paw of Suspicioning me: People voting me have for the most part just been saying things like "Hunted Charlie is probably scum" (AsianInvasion), "hm" (Syrenz), or "This last post was really, really bad." (joboman). So I'm just going to leave that until I have something substantial to respond to.
What are the positive outcomes of lynching Vezo? We get rid of something that is potentially very dangerous. Just from the flavor it seems like this would be almost as good as a scum lynch.
What are the negative outcomes of lynching Vezo? We get hurt in some way, or we make something really bad happen. I know that's fairly unclear, but I'd think if we started to put pressure on Vezo he would be quick to clarify in what respect we're going to get hurt, if any, by lynching him.
I'm going to barn Ace and say that doesn't make sense. Vezo was not under a lot of pressure to claim, yet he did, so it seems pretty unlikely that he's lying. He says not to pressure him, but he actually wants people to target him? I don't buy it.
It's hardly a waste considering how dangerous he sounds to keep around, especially due to any possible speculated interaction with Sylar.
Unless something bad happens for voting Vezo (I doubt this), I want more information about his role. That way we can make an informed decision about whether to get rid of him now, or whether it's OK to keep him around for a while. Anyone saying we should or shouldn't lynch him right at this moment is being far too speculative.
Vote: Vezokpiraka.
Furthermore, Zionite has said that the game is incredibly flavour-accurate. Ted doesn't have the best control of his powers.
He is also immune to his own radiation, and would not be killed by going nuclear.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
Is there a consensus that Vezok should do a complete claim now? If so, let's get that done.
Official Vote Count
Players needed to lynch: 12
AsianInvasion - 2 - Cyouni, Wrath_of_DoG - (L-10)
Hunted_Charlie - 1 - Ecophagy - (L-11)
joboman - 2 - OneMoreTime, Hunted_Charlie - (L-10)
OneMoreTime - 1 - Ace - (L-11)
StormBlind - 1 - AlphaInsidious - (L-11)
Syrenz - 1 - dropkickdude - (L-11)
vezokpiraka - 4 - AsianInvasion, Nom_Anor, Syrenz, joboman - (L-8)
Players not voting: Archmage_Eternal, Cyan, dracofaust, falkonn , red_0mega, StormBlind, TACKY, TheIceMan, tordeck, vezokpiraka
I know I said earlier that Zionite probably told vezokpiraka exactly what happens if he's targeted, I'm now inclined to believe that vezok actually has no idea what happens, but merely that it will involve things getting blown up. If this is the case, that kind of secret doomsday trigger (or even something less dramatic, such "If you are targeted 10 or more times over the course of the game, kill each player who targeted you.") is perfectly possible given the breadcrumbing Zionite did in the PM.
EWP: 'nathed by Cyouni.
That's it? Who are you voting for again?
Your concerns seem to stem from a genuine town mindset, but I think you fails to recognize an important factor. Assuming Sylar is on a mission to kill Ted (not unlikely), don't you think it's better to simply not let Sylar get to him than say, "Oh, well Zionite couldn't possibly design the game like this!" That kind of mod-gaming is highly unwise, as I'm positive he didn't expect Ted to come forward on D1, seeing as how claimed Survivors are almost always killed by the town.
Before you respond that a doc would be able to protect Ted, think for a minute about what that entails. Do we really want the doc (if we even have one) to waste a protection on a neutral who's being killed by another neutral? Shouldn't the doc be protecting town from mafia?
Everything about the "let vezok live" plan is riskier than simply lynching him now. The only downsides I foresee to lynching him are the potential for the player who hammers to die (which can be a boon if we force a scum to hammer) and the lack of information regarding the wagon because both town and scum will want him dead.
Seriously...does anyone still have any doubts as to whether this guy is town?
Except vezok said nothing about votes triggering his ability. He only mentioned that him getting targeted was bad. You're connecting dots because they happen to be next to each other, even though they're not in order.
I know vezok is a relatively new player, but he'd have to be abysmal (read: worse than anyone who's ever played this game) to false-claim Ted as scum given that the mod has all but confirmed Ted's presence in this game via the sign-up thread. Given this obvious fact, your conclusion that as a neutral he's not worth lynching is faulty. You're more afraid of what would happen if he were lynched than what would happen if his ability were to trigger or if he were killed by Sylar. We know for a fact that something bad happens if he's targeted. We can safely surmise that something bad happens if Sylar kills him. We have no information as to what will happen if he is lynched. None. Everything so far has been speculation.
Also, what kind of statement is "it would not be a worthwhile lynch to take him out as a probably-harmful neutral?" I'm pretty sure threats to the town should be removed before they can come to fruition.
Actually I outlined my problems with you already, specifically that you were fence-sitting and your attitude read as if you couldn't be bothered to scum hunt, coasting along being your preferred method of play.
Leaning town on you.
PBPA-MAN TO THE RESCUE!
This post, in reference to DKD's first "I want good attention" post, is pretty quick for 60 posts in. Yeah, DKD's post was enough to arouse a little suspicion, but Charlie jumps right in, not seeing the noobieness, and lables it really scummy. It's opportunist. I'll admit that I was surprised a little by DKD's comment, but Obvscum was far from my first though, especially that early on.
Once again, he does some pretty deep analysis for 65 posts into the game.
Charlie, would you mind telling us what OMT was distracting away from so early in the game? What were the pressing issues? Pretty sure that any discussion that early in the game is productive, and OMT was scumhunting, even if it was his awkward style of doing so. That on top of you pinning down two scum in two consecutive posts. Seems ambitious for 60 posts in.
So, what should he have been talking about?
Does some fearmongering a bit here, mostly with the Claire part, partly with the 'Vezok joins the scum' part. Does some fencesitting on DKD/OMT.
Ok this post has some fun.
First, The Joboman case. Look at how indifferent he is with Joboman. He's staying silent, but that could be for a good reason. The "Wagon?" comment is terrible, mostly because he's advocating a train on a player based off of little reasoning, and he's not even willing to stand behind it all the way. He's also saying that this is what we should do since we have nothing better to do. Well, Charlie may not have anything better to do, but the town can ALWAYS scumhunt. We don't train a player for the hell of it. We train them because they have been proven (to the best of the town's ability) as scum. Like I'm doing to you now.
Second, His response to AsianInvasion brings contradictions. He's not convinced that DMD/OMT are town, but won't outright call them scummy here. Yet he did that in his second post of the game, specifically in the DMD attack, where he ended up calling him "really scummy". He then goes on right after that, in his 3rd post of the game, to say that OMT smells pretty scummy too. Contradiction of his earlier play.
Finally, there is a bit of fearmongering with the crazy bold statement and the comment on Falkonn. I agree that falkonn or anyone else claiming is bad, but this is freakout level IMO. Bad post in general and one to be considered.
Throws on the vote for Joboman. Remember how he was so indifferent about that in his last post? Yeah, he's voting here because he has nothing better to do.
And the "Hm" comment raises my eyebrow. If he has nothing to say about it, the Hm is unneeded. Yet it's there. It's like a thought placeholder for something much more important. It like subconscious thought on the internet. A freudian slip, if you will. He feels like he has to comment on it, probably because it's personally important to him. It reads as a fake feeling, a comment of appearances. You know what I mean?
Well, here's more substance for you. You have something to do now, don't you feel better?
Vote Hunted Charlie
@Mod: Votecount Plox?
EBWoP: I see who you're voting for Ace. You should probably reevaluate that vote or defend it.
I meant to say that "claimed Survivors who are revealed on D1 are almost always killed by the town." Obviously later on the town needs to focus on lynching mafia.
I made a couple grammatical errors that I won't bother fixing...I think I need a nap.
@AsianInvasion: I think the revealing of Ted puts the town at a specific strategic advantage. We can plan around him. We have the gift of foresight that we wouldn't have otherwise. I think we can use this to our advantage.
I agree whole-heartedly.
Also, Unvote now that RVS is long since over.
Modern
WBR Mardu Midrange
UR Storm
Commander
WBR Queen Marchesa Stax
WUB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Pillowfort
RRR Krenko, Mob Boss Chaos
The "hm" was me not being sure that I believe you.
I like this case.
I don't see how we can use Ted. The safest thing to do is to deal with him as soon as possible.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
OK, I am getting strong town vibes from you.
My thoughts on vezokpiraka:
We don't want him getting targeted.
We don't want him getting de-brained.
We want him to die.
It's basically as simple as that. I plan to ignore any and all fearmongering and advocate the correct decision. vezok's full claim is unlikely to change the simple fact that he's a huge risk and needs to be eliminated, but he should still reveal any aspects of his role that aren't public information (though I get the feeling he's told us everything he knows).
What were you thinking?
The vote alone was a null tell, but when you read his post it comes off strongly from a town perspective. Or at least that's the impression I got, I could be wrong. Reread and get back to me if you disagree.
Mos' def'.
Kill him tomorrow. Plan is still in development. I agree he's a risk, I agree he should die at some point. Just make that day D2. As of now, he's an asset.
Let's lynch scum today. Lynch Charlie. Obvscum is obvious.
You lost me. How does this address the danger that Sylar will try to kill him? Get back to me when this plan is fleshed out.
Also, if Charlie is scum I'll eat my shoe.
No; although I agree charlie is quite suspicious, it is better to get rid of Vez today instead of tomorrow. Overnight, he could blow up, have his powers copied by Sylar or Peter (or possibly someone else; I only watched the first season of heroes, and it was when it first came out), or perhaps have something we aren't expecting happen.
EBWoP: Charlie the character, not Hunted Charlie the player. Charlie is a lovely southern belle. Hunted Charlie is scum.
In part one of this, you say I shouldn't be calling DKD scummy based on such an early post. In part two, you say that scumhunting is good and any discussion early on is productive. These two positions seem incompatible logically, as my first post was of the scumhunting, early discussion variety. Actually, my and OMT's posts were similar in that regard.
This term "fearmongering" is being thrown around a lot this game. I'm unsure how raising the possibility of a neutral turning on us is a bad thing, since it's absolutely a good thing to watch out for. And I'm not sure how raising suspicions of Vezok would help the scum, either.
Proof is impossible in a discussion-based game like this, and evidence is continually building from Day 1. Stronger cases can be made as the game goes on. Therefore, the decision of where to hunt is not based on finding a perfect case but on finding the best possible case at that time. Jobo was the best possible case at that time.
Right, that's because that was my third post of the game, during the early phase with little evidence. Permission to change my mind, sir?
Again this word. Yes, having two people claim in the first two real-life days of a game like this is bad. I am again unclear about why you think bolding or underlining it makes it "fearmongering".
Indifferent? I suggested we start a bandwagon on him. I forgot to vote and quickly remedied my error.
I had nothing to say on it, but want edit to be noted and inputted into the town consciousness as rather odd. Which it was. How exactly does the concept of a Freudian slip play into this?
Anyway, I think the case against me is unquestionably weak but it is true that our other options are limited. It seems like me, Zevok, and joboman are the three possibilities at this point. If I have indeed misunderstood Zevok's claim, he could be a good potential lynch. Joboman is giving off scum vibes but I've got to go through and see whether there's a true case or that's just me.
Haha, I was a bit confused by that post until I saw this.
Vezoks playing the way he did in a basic game i played with him. If we assume that he's telling the truth about being Ted i think we need more information about his role and to do this we have to pressure him. I doubt just voting him will trigger his ability.
vote vezok
@Tacky: We may be able to use Ted but now scum knows about him too so they can also use him. and as mentioned before Sylar might be able to use ted to his advantage overnight.
Dkd made a couple of mistakes early on but i believe that hes town.
Charlie(hunted) is looking very suspicious especially because he 'forgot' to vote after proposing a wagon. But I'd like to have more information about vezok's role first to see whether we can risk letting vezok live through the day.
That made you think that claiming would be a good idea?
huh??
SO, basically you are on the fence about all of them?
I agree for the most part, but why call him scummy then vote for vezokpiraka?
Good Work TACKY.
I could go for this. Even though we should obviously try to get rid of him, I did not want to make vezokpiraka the priority today, and if TACKY thinks he can come up with a plan to make him useful, I think we should give it another day and focus on scum.
On that note, Vote: Hunted Charlie
smoke_Killah
Vote: Hunted Charlie
smoke_Killah
Please tell: where does 'all' come from?
Yes, I read all of it and it says: "Prob town, but still"
No, you said: "Unsure. Not convinced he's noob town.
Fair enough, but that seems obvious to most of us.
You mention 5 people and fence-sit on 4 of them, so my bad, "almost all".
Where is the misrep?
smoke_Killah
There you go.
Where isn't it?
Why so defensive? I mean overly so, it is not like I even called you scummy. Way to go, because I am now.
Actually you posted that while I was posting mine. I did read it though, and I find your counter-arguments thoroughly unconvincing.
smoke_Killah
I am totally happy to see either of them die.
On Vezo/Ted: I don't think a lynch is the best idea. Gradual application of "pressure" in the form of votes could end up very messily, and while I don't see a mod creating a game that could end day 1 with an "everybody dies", I wouldn't be surprised to see, say, half the wagon blow up too.
Therefore, I have a proposal. The Haitian should target Vezo tonight, and - if possible - permanently remove Vezo's ability. Because this might not be possible, a vig should also target Ted.
It's plausible that the Haitian is mafia. Hopefully, you can see that the advantage of the world not blowing up is worth co-operating with the town, especially night 1.
Net result: Ted can't go boom because of the Haitian, then Ted goes Die from a vig. Problem solved.
The one issue is that Sylar + Ted = bad. In order to try and rectify this, we should have a watcher watch Ted - He'd see the Haitian, the vig and Sylar. This seems like a good deal to me. I should point out to Sylar that you targeting Ted is unwise, given that a watcher is a common role, and you being narrowed down at all basically means that you lose.
(also, Syrenz: A while ago, I put down some ideas for a Heroes mafia, and my Sylar worked exactly like you laid out, so it doesn't seem so far-fetched that Zionite had a similar idea)
The problem is that the level of your response was not appropriate for how early it was in the game. No one cares that you had an opinion (in fact the discussion is good), just that you labeled a couple players obvious scum with very little evidence to go on.
The problem with fearmongering is that, like baseless speculation, it masquerades as actual content. While I don't actually find what you had to say entirely worthless, speculating on a possible interaction between two characters, when we know nothing about one and very little about the other, doesn't seem like the best use of our time.
While I do agree with your annoyance at the two claims, and the amount of use we're giving to the buzzword "fearmongering," I don't agree with your blanket statement about no more information. For instance, please explain how it would be harmful for Vezo to right now tell us everything he knows?
The only time I say "Hm" is when I find something interesting or notable. I think Freudian Slip might have been too strong, but the word you've used generally denotes some sort of opinion or feeling. I find it hard to believe that you wrote "Hm" just to make sure we took note.
I think the case has some merit, but I think our priority should be with Vezo right now.
How on earth can you think to game the mod so much, Eco? That's ridiculously bad. "Don't assume powers based on flavour, but don't discount them" should be the rule of thumb. That doesn't grant you the ability to not only predict abilities, but neither to direct them. :/