@Talore - I didn't notice the irony in that remark. Nice find.
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What you were doing was using an unusual situation to try and convince people that we should still lynch them, while you know that normal procedure is directly opposite of that? That's how you're being flip/floppy.
Unusual? You know that?
That is not flip flopn' by the way. You have it wrong.
I don't trust them. Towns usally leave neutrals alone and that could be costly.
I'm the Doc goo. Anyone who targets me is Doc protected for the Night.
This is not a "triggered" ability. There is no "Threshold" number of people that need to target me to get this protection. You target me, you are protected.
And the reason I decided to bring this up is because I had a tiny epiphany, which was that because this ability works in reverse, the usual reasons for staying "hidden" as a Doc just don't apply. Like, if I could go around secretly protecting people, then there's a benefit to me doing so. But if the only way people get the protection is for them to decide to target me, then how is that going to work? Who's just going to randomly do that? And, even if they did it, they wouldn't know that they were protected and probably wouldn't do it again. So I just decided, screw it. Now people can actually make an informed choice.
It's entirely possible that the scum in this game have a way (or multiple ways) to mess with this, but I still like having it out there, because now they have to worry about it. They have to worry about the possibility of anyone they try to kill being protected. So, maybe they just decide to kill me, but even that is going to make them nervous now. Because scum don't really like going after a target that's too obvious. Who knows what else might be out there to stop them/catch them?
You may not believe me, or you may think I'm dumb for saying this, or you may evn think this is just some crazy gambit on my part, and you are free to do so. But what's done is done.
That said, I'm not necessarily for a total "Mass" claim. It really depends on your ability and how it works. There may be benefit to others coming out. Like, I've also got the generic targeting ability which I can still use to target someone else. Someone with a "Watcher" type ability would be awesome, but there might be more that would be suitable.
If anyone wants to volunteer for me to target them tonight I'm taking names. You don't have to say what it will do.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm the Doc goo. Anyone who targets me is Doc protected for the Night.
This is not a "triggered" ability. There is no "Threshold" number of people that need to target me to get this protection. You target me, you are protected.
And the reason I decided to bring this up is because I had a tiny epiphany, which was that because this ability works in reverse, the usual reasons for staying "hidden" as a Doc just don't apply. Like, if I could go around secretly protecting people, then there's a benefit to me doing so. But if the only way people get the protection is for them to decide to target me, then how is that going to work? Who's just going to randomly do that? And, even if they did it, they wouldn't know that they were protected and probably wouldn't do it again. So I just decided, screw it. Now people can actually make an informed choice.
It's entirely possible that the scum in this game have a way (or multiple ways) to mess with this, but I still like having it out there, because now they have to worry about it. They have to worry about the possibility of anyone they try to kill being protected. So, maybe they just decide to kill me, but even that is going to make them nervous now. Because scum don't really like going after a target that's too obvious. Who knows what else might be out there to stop them/catch them?
You may not believe me, or you may think I'm dumb for saying this, or you may evn think this is just some crazy gambit on my part, and you are free to do so. But what's done is done.
That said, I'm not necessarily for a total "Mass" claim. It really depends on your ability and how it works. There may be benefit to others coming out. Like, I've also got the generic targeting ability which I can still use to target someone else. Someone with a "Watcher" type ability would be awesome, but there might be more that would be suitable.
If anyone wants to volunteer for me to target them tonight I'm taking names. You don't have to say what it will do.
Umm... why do you want volunteers for you to target, as per that last paragraph?
There are two main themes in Goo Mafia:
1. Color is mutable and can mechanically affect the game-state.
2. Every role has the basic ability to target another player and there are roles which are triggered from being targeted.
So, yes.
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Archmage Eternal and/or joboman are scum. Hard to say which is for sure at this point, but I think the recent AE vs. joboman has joboman looking worse.
Now, I'm not all that experienced with gleaning information from the wording of win conditions, but does anyone else read that as implying or suggesting that there are no neutrals that can't win along with the town (in other words, no SK or cult)?
I agree, that does make it sound as though there are no anti-town neutrals. Good find.
I'm the Doc goo. Anyone who targets me is Doc protected for the Night.
You bread-crumbed this so I believe you. The claim would be hard to disprove (barring a Cop investigation, and you could be a Godfather) because anyone who got NK'd wouldn't be alive to confirm that he did not target you, but this still seems like a stupid thing to do as scum because we would definitely lynch you after a couple Nights of you not dying and other people dying when they should have been targeting you.
I've been doing some thinking about the setup.
A list detailing each player's Night targets is a bad idea.
A mass-claim is a bad idea.
But what if everyone who has an ability that benefits from being targeted or confers benefits to players who target him claims that he has such an ability? No need to elaborate; simply stating that one has it is enough. At Night players can use their abilities as they choose given this information.
The main benefit of this plan is that we can better coordinate targeting so that our power roles get powered up to the fullest extent possible without revealing their exact abilities.
I can see a few problems with it, though.
1. This would reveal some of our power roles.
2. Scum could lie about their abilities.
3. Scum could deliberately target townies who don't benefit from being targeted during Night (with roleblocks or what have you) and avoid or kill those who do.
The first issue is mitigated by the fact that the power roles don't have to specify what kind of powers they have and by the fact that Axelrod already gave the scum their #1 target for the Night.
The second risk is minor because in this kind of claim scum actually have an incentive to tell the truth so that their powers are turned on by town targeting. Players then have to decide which amongst the claimed players is most town and should be targeted while leaving the scummy players alone.
The third point against doesn't worry me much because I think the benefits outweigh the negatives due to our numerical advantage.
Guys, lets look at the three basic power roles Cop, Doc, and Roleblocker. Lets say that each of them works in the way Axelrod described. If we mass-claimed and the Cop and Doc were outed instead of being roleblocked, the Cop would be able to target the Doc while the scummiest players were all forced to target teh cop. isn't this a good plan?
I can verify axelrod claim tonight. I am a watcher/tracker and some other thing.
If only one goo targets me I go into tracker mode.
If only two goo target me I go into watcher mode.
I will target axelrod tonight. If I die axel is scum.
If I survive I can tell you all who targeted axel.
So I need only 2 goo to target me this night. Also my plan is scum proof.
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I can verify axelrod claim tonight. I am a watcher/tracker and some other thing.
If only one goo targets me I go into tracker mode.
If only two goo target me I go into watcher mode.
I will target axelrod tonight. If I die axel is scum.
If I survive I can tell you all who targeted axel.
So I need only 2 goo to target me this night. Also my plan is scum proof.
YAY MORE UNILATERAL CLAIMS!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Now that we've outed two of the very biggest power-roles can we PLEASE go with a mass-claim? Hell, I'd be willing to claim unilaterally at this point since my ability doesn't seem very powerful.
Even after Axel and vezok have claimed, I remain against a massclaim. As I have argued before, laying all our cards on the table only makes it obvious to the scum which targets to pinpoint and which to ignore. I realize that we are already at an information disadvantage, but massclaiming would only exacerbate that disadvantage, since we wouldn't necessarily be able to identify the scum by their claims, but they would know who was being truthful and they would act accordingly.
Let's look at the most recent situation, that of Axelrod claiming to be goo doctor. Assume he is town and that we are massclaiming. Everyone's role will be revealed, and the scum will be sure whether they had the freedom to kill Axelrod immediately or if they had to jump through additional hoops to get at him.
Now, same situation, except we don't massclaim. Scum know they must kill Axelrod. But they don't know if there is a hidden watcher who will immediately bust them if they do, etc etc.
Uncertainty is a scum weapon, but it is a town weapon also.
Checking in for a moment to say: Ugh, horrible timing, Axel.
Would rather not say why (just in case), but you should have waited on this until at least day two. Doing this right now just heavily impedes something else that we want to be doing.
Are you going to explain this at some later point? Did you have some sort of plan? Feel free to not answer either of those questions if you feel it would be bad for the town.
Quote from Vez »
I can verify axelrod claim tonight. I am a watcher/tracker and some other thing.
If only one goo targets me I go into tracker mode.
If only two goo target me I go into watcher mode.
I will volunteer to target Vez tonight.
On the mass claim. I agree with zinda, even with doc/obs claimed I think the scum would get more out of knowing the set up then the town would. This might change if we get more power roles outed. For now I think it's a bad idea.
The only potentially terrible downside that I see is if the scum had some role ability like "target a player, whoever else targets that player the same night dies."
That would be back-breaking, but also seems unlikely enough that I wasn't going to worry about it. I don't know what else you think we should be doing, Ced, that my claim screws up, but, sorry?
Vez: that sounds good, if I'm understanding correctly - do you become a "Watcher" as long as two or more target you, or does it have to be two exactly? Because if it's the latter, then it's easy for the scum to disrupt. If it's just "more than two" then I can target you myself to help turn the ability on.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I want the people targeting me be confirmed guys. The best thing I see is kpaca and SB target me tonight. This way scum can't make the -one target. And if they target me to foil our plans it's useless.
@axel: I don't want to answer that question right now.
So who does the plan go?
I prefer that falkonn won't target me tonight.
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See, if it has to be "exactly two" then this is something that has to be coordinated. There's just no other way except hoping to luck and chance.
And if it's coordinated, then the scum can step in to mess with it, I realize this.
At that point, for me, the question becomes "are there a lot of other players out there with roles/abilities that need to be coordinated in order to work?" Because if there are, then it becomes more of a numbers game. And the scum can't disrupt everything - at least not while the town still has significantly more people.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
ok. It's only 2. More than 2 makes something else happen.
I really want to be targeted by the 2 neutrals because that way I am sure scum won't say "I will target vez" and don't do it.
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YAY MORE UNILATERAL CLAIMS!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Now that we've outed two of the very biggest power-roles can we PLEASE go with a mass-claim? Hell, I'd be willing to claim unilaterally at this point since my ability doesn't seem very powerful.
This does bug me, as I don't see why someone with an ability that "doesn't seem very powerful" would be pushing so hard for a Mass claim right off the bat. Just hoping good things would happen? At the very least I'd have thought you had some kind of plan, usually related to one's ability, to go with it.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I was not saying that AE was the cult leader, but a cultist.
I am going to push a massclaim now. I believe that my ability is not hurt significantly by being out-ed and actually becomes much better when the town can cordinate.
Who is for/against this?
Yay: 1
Joboman
Nay: 0
Like, I thought this made some sense, but your other post seems to contradict it. Is this a good ability or not, Jobo?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I like the idea of having Axel and one of the neutrals targeting Vez.
SB/kpaca, any of you willing to go along with that?
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It seems like random is in fact done. I like random, it's fun. Unvote
The issue that I see with keeping a targeting list is that it gives the scum quite a bit more information to work with. Firstly, it has the potential to out power roles if people ask to be targeted. They know more about the game set up since we only have our own role pm's, so they would probably be able to piece together a better idea of what the targeting does during the first day or two. That, plus it seems like it would be very easy to say you would target someone and then not target that person. If there are multiple people that are supposed to target someone, we won't know who didn't target that person. It would allow the scum to manipulate the targeting to their benefit basically.
Speculation about what scum could do. It seemed to me like you tried to think this but you spoke it loudly.
I like how active Ced is being. I don't have a clue as to whether or not he's town yet, but if he stays this active we'll have a pretty good answer to that question I think.
I've already stated my opinion on SB, so I won't rehash that here.
Talore seems town to me.
Waiting on Kpaca and Zinda to get back to hear what they have to say.
Think that's about it for now.
Another useless post. Gives some town reads. Just so it doesn’t attract attention.
Dancing Mad and someone else asked me why I said I felt like Talore was town in post 101.
He had made like 4 posts or something like that at that point. They struck me as having good town reasoning in them. I could go back and pbpa his posts up to then, but honestly at that point the game was barely out of random and it seems kind of silly to do that. I'll do it if people want me to though.
I still think it would be fine to see what happens with kpaca/sb if we let them live a night, but as I said earlier if one is going to be vigged I would prefer Kpaca. They are easy vig targets later. For now I hope if we have a vig that they look for someone scummy instead.
Things are a lot less busy then they were for a couple of days. I'll try to post more. I actually have a tendency to post a lot when I have the time.
I don’t like this post.You care about your image and try to respond to a question in a bad way.
You may be buddying talore.
I'm going to /barn AsianI in saying that I don't like the way people racked up votes on loran like that. It seemed extremely opportunistic to hop on like that after TACKY's analysis. I'm interested in seeing how Loran responds to the sudden pressure on him though.
If someone else hasn't already said it, TACKY is probably town imo.
Another barn post. You really want to blend in with the town. Another town read.
Yeah, I agree it can be used as a scum tactic. I just don't think it's being used by scum in this case. This corroborates with TACKY's play in 18 where he acted the same as town. That plus his posts since seem good to me too.
Loran: You keep going back to your plan despite everyone in the world saying it's a bad idea. If we put everything out there, the scum will control who gets targeted more/less essentially. That, plus trying to figure out who lied about their target would be next to impossible. We would have to trust everyone to report back how many times they were targeted, and some people don't have incentive to tell us the truth (thus also giving the scum the ability to mess with our daychat). It doesn't take into account people that die in the night not being able to tell us their target/if they were targeted. It doesn't take into account any special abilities any of the goo in the game have. Your plan is terrible for the town, yet you still seem to think it's a good idea.
Vote: Loran
Sudden change. Just so you go with the town. Still say TACKY is town.
So I see it's kinda been agreed upon that i should be vigged. That's pretty lame guys, that I'm going to lose the game for helping you out. It's obvious now from a design stand point that Stormblind is lying, otherwise I'd be to powerful. He also lied about him being good and me being evil, and pretty much tried to slant you guys into making him and unneccesary evil. I then basically came out knowing that it would screw me. And this is what my honesty gets me.
If nothing else you could at least let me tie him.
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Or maybe the scum could do me a favor and kill him since it will just reset the game at town vs. scum. I know thats a lot to ask for you guys to give up your advantage, but it would be cool of you.
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I don't think we can rely on the neutrals to target Vez.
I don't either. Worth asking, though.
Actually, thinking about it, I'm not worried about a scum agreeing to target Vez, and then not following through. That'd actually be good for us. It's much worse if they have another scum target him, leading to three targets on Vez.
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Case on falkonn. Sorry for the wall of text. It’s my first.
Quote from me »
That's interesting. I didn't even know you could make a post from an ipod. I probably couldn't from my 5 year old one, but still pretty nifty.
Random post. Just to distract attention.
Umm...random post was during the random phase as you can see from my next post (at which point the random phase had ended).
Quote from me »
It seems like random is in fact done. I like random, it's fun.
Unvote
The issue that I see with keeping a targeting list is that it gives the scum quite a bit more information to work with. Firstly, it has the potential to out power roles if people ask to be targeted. They know more about the game set up since we only have our own role pm's, so they would probably be able to piece together a better idea of what the targeting does during the first day or two. That, plus it seems like it would be very easy to say you would target someone and then not target that person. If there are multiple people that are supposed to target someone, we won't know who didn't target that person. It would allow the scum to manipulate the targeting to their benefit basically.
Quote from Vez »
Speculation about what scum could do. It seemed to me like you tried to think this but you spoke it loudly.
Yep, stream of consciousness is kind of my thing. Although it tends to get me into trouble. I'm not exactly sure that this is a point against me. Either that or I misunderstand your point.
Quote from me »
This seems really random.
I like how active Ced is being. I don't have a clue as to whether or not he's town yet, but if he stays this active we'll have a pretty good answer to that question I think.
I've already stated my opinion on SB, so I won't rehash that here.
Talore seems town to me.
Waiting on Kpaca and Zinda to get back to hear what they have to say.
Think that's about it for now.
Quote from Vez »
Another useless post. Gives some town reads. Just so it doesn’t attract attention.
Calling that post useless is pretty rough. There wasn't much going on at the time. I wanted to check in since I had some time. I would argue that me putting myself out there saying that Talore seems town is definitely not useless. I took some heat for that actually.
Quote from me »
/barn Talore
I was going to say the same thing. I went to go and check his post to make sure I was remembering it right first though.
Quote from Vez »
You seem to try to start a wagon on someone. You’re barning talore to blend with the town.
Actually, I was barning him because I agreed with him. And I was definitely not the only one that thought it was weird that zinda claimed that was a random vote.
Quote from me »
Dancing Mad and someone else asked me why I said I felt like Talore was town in post 101.
He had made like 4 posts or something like that at that point. They struck me as having good town reasoning in them. I could go back and pbpa his posts up to then, but honestly at that point the game was barely out of random and it seems kind of silly to do that. I'll do it if people want me to though.
I still think it would be fine to see what happens with kpaca/sb if we let them live a night, but as I said earlier if one is going to be vigged I would prefer Kpaca. They are easy vig targets later. For now I hope if we have a vig that they look for someone scummy instead.
Things are a lot less busy then they were for a couple of days. I'll try to post more. I actually have a tendency to post a lot when I have the time.
Quote from Vez »
I don’t like this post.You care about your image and try to respond to a question in a bad way.
You may be buddying talore.
Are you saying that I care about my image because I wanted to answer some questions that people had asked of me? I'm under the impression that its refusing to answer questions that is scummy, not the other way around.
Could you explain exactly what you mean by trying to respond to a question in a bad way. I'm personally not seeing what your trying to say here.
Quote from me »
I'm going to /barn AsianI in saying that I don't like the way people racked up votes on loran like that. It seemed extremely opportunistic to hop on like that after TACKY's analysis. I'm interested in seeing how Loran responds to the sudden pressure on him though.
If someone else hasn't already said it, TACKY is probably town imo.
Quote from Vez »
Another barn post. You really want to blend in with the town. Another town read.
You seem to be under the impression that barning means that I want to blend into the town. I feel like it has the opposite effect actually. It calls attention to the fact that I'm agreeing with someone, which could be used against me later. As far as the town reads, I call them when I see them. I also admit it if I feel like I was wrong. Personally I'd rather give the town more information rather then less.
Quote from me »
Yeah, I agree it can be used as a scum tactic. I just don't think it's being used by scum in this case. This corroborates with TACKY's play in 18 where he acted the same as town. That plus his posts since seem good to me too.
Loran: You keep going back to your plan despite everyone in the world saying it's a bad idea. If we put everything out there, the scum will control who gets targeted more/less essentially. That, plus trying to figure out who lied about their target would be next to impossible. We would have to trust everyone to report back how many times they were targeted, and some people don't have incentive to tell us the truth (thus also giving the scum the ability to mess with our daychat). It doesn't take into account people that die in the night not being able to tell us their target/if they were targeted. It doesn't take into account any special abilities any of the goo in the game have. Your plan is terrible for the town, yet you still seem to think it's a good idea.
Vote: Loran
Quote from Vez »
Sudden change. Just so you go with the town. Still say TACKY is town.
I don't see what you mean by sudden change here. This was my first real vote of the game if I remember correctly. I still thought TACKY was town at this point. I explained why when I unvoted, which you left out of your PBPA so I guess that post was fine too.
Quote from me »
Your will is my command.
...my life for Aiur?
Quote from Vez »
Some more blending with the town.
A guy can't make a joke? You said you didn't want me to targeting you since I was on your scum list. I can respect that, so I told you I wouldn't.
Quote from me »
EBWODP: Mind telling me why I'm scummy? Maybe I can tell you why I said things the way I did.
Quote from Vez »
This post is scummy as hell. You want me to make a case against you so you can refute it. You care about your image.
I strongly disagree that people should be able to claim someone is scummy without backing it up. People ask that question all the time as town or scum so at worst this is a null tell..
TL;DR Falkonn has done 0 scum hunting. He never had an idea of his. He just blends with the town.
@falkon: Please get an avatar.
I have been trying to post more, but things have been really busy recently. It's not like I've been actively lurking, when I do post I try to put content in. Just because I haven't had time to do a PBPA doesn't mean that I haven't done anything at all.
As far as the avatar thing goes, I always just looked for myself by looking for the guy w/ no avatar. But if it would make things easier for everyone I'll find one later tonight while I'm at work if it's slow.
For his opportunistic vote on Loran and quick unvote after he's called on it. And his wanting to lynch neutrals over scum doesn't make me feel good about him either.
I don't feel defeated in the slightest. Just that I mistook what Loran suggested. The fact that lynching me for not trusting the neutrals is lame and my lynch should help the town identify some scum.
Saying that you don't feel defeated doesn't mean much when you immediately follow it up with a defeatist statement.
The AE bashing is interesting, so I decided to look back on some older posts. Lookie what I found.
You flip/flop a lot on the neutrals issue. Before you say that we should lynch and vig.
then you say
so simple fact that towns don't lynch neutrals, but you really wanted to do that. Combined with your fit of anger, I'd say you really don't like the position you've put yourself in.
Unvote; Vote Archmage Eternal
Nice catch. I will try to reread later to see if I want to join this wagon.
Now, I'm not all that experienced with gleaning information from the wording of win conditions, but does anyone else read that as implying or suggesting that there are no neutrals that can't win along with the town (in other words, no SK or cult)?
I don't believe either SKs or cults are neutrals. They are non-mafia scum. Neutrals are roles that could win with either the town or the mafia.
That said... there is a strong implication that the mafia are the only scum in the game.
I think my ability is okay at best, but becomes better when powered up. I really haven't played with this kind of ability before so I'm not that sure of myself.
The one you voted for was "deflection" (in which you displayed an unawareness of what deflection is). That's all I see.
You keep doing this, boiling my vote down to one issue, and that's wrong. I didn't vote on deflection. I didn't vote on the bad ideas. The bad ideas pushed me to the edge and the deflection and attacking of his attacker pushed me over. It's a combined effort.
I'm confused at what you mean here, because the exact opposite from what you said happened.
I disagree. Every opportunity I had to make a response to him I did. Like I've said, my vote didn't come until he tried to turn things around on me. I wasn't just voting as soon as a vote piles on, I voted for good reason.
The majority of your case seems to be arguing with loran about his plan. Only later on did other things come in.
As loran did say, 282 makes it pretty obvious that the deflection point was just an extra thing at the end.
Again, not so. The deflection was the kicker to my vote.
Deflection is when somebody, rather than defend themselves, instead opts to attack a third player, often with a similar point that was made against them. Loran did not do this.
OMGUS is when somebody, on being voted, attacks/votes the voter back, entirely because they are being voted. Loran did not do this - he presented a reason.
I wouldn't say that these terms are set in stone like this, but I see what you're saying.
Still, what he did seems like a weird mutation of both of these into one. And Loran didn't actually present a solid reason, not at first. He just came out, said that the FoSes and no vote was scummy and moved along. I'm still not sure why doing either of those are scummy, especially when I have sound reasoning.
Going to call backpedal on that. You never made anything resembling that argument, just noted that he was "still supporting bad plans".
I know I never made that argument before, I'm making it now. I'm giving you my internal thought process here. I did get my analysis. I just hadn't posted it because I was trying to figure out if it was a scum or a town thing to do, defend to the end. I decided it was scummy, mostly because it came down to him blindly ignoring the glaring disadvantages. Every time I brought a disadvantage up, he answered it by providing a positave, one that was sometimes flawed.
No, I said that sometimes it's worth directing as many actions as possible. Sometimes it won't be. I said nothing about any more disclosure happening - I'm discussing loran's original plan.
Ok, sometimes it works, sometimes not, sure, but how do we determine that? Just saying that doesn't change anything and makes me more sure that we shouldn't do it. You need to provide more analysis on this topic.
That wasn't even remotely fence-sitting. My post makes my feelings about you pretty clear.
Is this supposed to be an accusation?
I'm just suspicious as to why you would attack me this way and then not vote. I know your stance on me, it's pretty clear, but no vote, no FoS, nothing. It raised my eyebrow first.
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Anyone other than Cyan who only locks onto one player at a time until they're lynched? Hows that for spiteful?
Yeah lets put all our cards on the table for the scum to pick through. No degree of pro-town what so ever there, which ever way you spin it.
Speaking of pro-town, you haven't actually been that helpful to the town at all. Your just snaking your way through the thread waiting for wagons to pop up. And defending Jobo here, Starting to see a connection. FOS
I missed this earlier, but, was looking back at AE's posts and saw it.
And honestly..I have to wonder how no one else commented on it.
In the first paragraph, AE not only ad homs me, but makes it woefully apparent that he is doing so to be malicious. This is not town behavior.
In the second paragraph, AE ignores my statement that it was jobo's explanation as to why he wanted to mass claim that made sense, even though the idea itself was awful.
And then in the third paragraph, first he completely OMGUS attacks me. Then he says that I'm just 'looking for wagons to pop up'. This really can't be considered even remotely true, because A)the only person I've expressed real suspicion towards thus far was AE and B)I was the first(and most vocal) to do so. And of course he tries to make something of the fact that I defended joboman. And yet, all of this terribly behavior on my part is only worth an FoS..and not even a highlighted one.
This is a great, great example of what happens to a scum when they get backed into the corner. More votes on AEscum, please.
I missed this earlier, but, was looking back at AE's posts and saw it.
And honestly..I have to wonder how no one else commented on it.
In the first paragraph, AE not only ad homs me, but makes it woefully apparent that he is doing so to be malicious. This is not town behavior.
In the second paragraph, AE ignores my statement that it was jobo's explanation as to why he wanted to mass claim that made sense, even though the idea itself was awful.
And then in the third paragraph, first he completely OMGUS attacks me. Then he says that I'm just 'looking for wagons to pop up'. This really can't be considered even remotely true, because A)the only person I've expressed real suspicion towards thus far was AE and B)I was the first(and most vocal) to do so. And of course he tries to make something of the fact that I defended joboman. And yet, all of this terribly behavior on my part is only worth an FoS..and not even a highlighted one.
This is a great, great example of what happens to a scum when they get backed into the corner. More votes on AEscum, please.
yep, that was the point of my "Really not liking AE's posts at all" comment.
I'm not completely feeling the wagon on AE. The willingness to lynch the neutrals is poor...but scummy?
His vote on me is worse....but well...i think Tacky is probably more scummy at the moment. If AE is scum...he'll keep making these plays.
Re: Axelrod's coming out, i don't mind him coming out as such except that it ruins our "vig the neutrals plan" as they can simply keep targetted him to be doc protected. Of course doing that neutralizes the two of them i guess...eh.
Oh right, Tacky. Unvote, Vote Tacky. Your changing justification for voting me is really scummy. Tacky, answer me this: Is proposing what you think is a bad plan a scummy action?
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
What exactly is that service? Plus was it wise to reveal yourself to your competitor? If it doesen't affect our townieness why would it affect our power? But you didn't say anything about the town win con changing did you?
Questions SB. I don't understand why he asks "If it doesen't affect our townieness why would it affect our power?", but I don't see anything scummy in it.
Thats the thing. It will be a waiting game but its better to have a pool of players for him to choose from that are volunteers. At least we have some grounds to play from. I don't elect to kill him off as like the claiming of miller you have to take the wait and see approach.
I quoted RR to show Loran there was an easy solution.
I believe it would be better for the town to direct him of sorts than to have him target on his own. Later down the line we'd have an idea if something hurtful to the town occurs.
Zinds just sour because I've had the last laugh and the one before that too. BUT the way he said it comes across as hoping he could subtly start a wagon but fall back on "its random". Definitely not worth a vote but someone to watch because Zind is VERY manipulative. FOS
Volunteers, the town can group them and direct SB and now Kpaca to target from that group. Whenever one comes up dead we'll have some info.
Yes it sounded like that.
This
How can they further your mission when earlier you stated they will not be informed?
Who brought up SB targeting players that have a better chance at getting lynched? i.e. scummy players. Ced was it you? I don't know if that is a wise idea with the possibility of powering them up or whatever weird thing might happen. Why not have them tell us who they targeted?
I'm lumping these posts together to avoid repeating myself.
More neutral discussion. Nothing wrong with that as it was the main topic of interest for most or all players at the time.
He does have some valid points on the neutrals, but that doesn't really reveal whether or not he has a town or scum mindset. Discussions about neutral are often, at least to me, barren of strong tells in either direction, and at this point in the game I had a null-read on AE.
Excellent place to start. Good job. vote Loran fos Asian
And here we start going downhill. Complete barn of TACKY's analysis, and piggybacks on Axelrod's vote for Loran, providing absolutely no reasoning whatsoever. No explanation of what points he agrees with, no additional points against Loran that TACKY/Axel might've missed, no nothing.
So what good comes from outing ourselves and showing the mafia what we have in store?
Lets hear what he has to say. But the "why" would out the town.
So sorry for us wanting your input in dealing with the scum.
On the neutrals. In Cyans Sword of Truth I was part of a 3 man neutral team that screwed the town and won the game. Don't think this is a scum gambit but could be a way for them to win the game. Simple solution would be a lynch and vig. Clearly not risking taking out a townie so no harm to us.
...and it goes downhill fast. Suggests lynching one of the neutrals, which is a horrible idea. Nice fearmongering on bringing up what happened with a 3-man neutral group in a different game. Unless he too wants to come up with some wild theory regarding SB and kpaca this has no similarities to this game in any way.
My vote is still on Loran but yes its an option. No harm to the town. Are you implying with that question that it would be a bad idea? Claimed neutral does not mean pro town and could very well be anti town.
Answers my question as to if he was really suggesting lynching a neutral. Yes, he was.
Why not? It keeps us away from a miss lynch and can gives us some info regarding the other neutral.
Free NK? Mafia is going to kill regardless. If less townies have to claim today to keep them in the dark the better. Backed up each other? There has been some questions brought up regarding that hasn't there? Namely one evil one not. The point from SB that the player changed doesn't know but will carry on after his death. Sorry but I'm not going to blindly take them at thier word. No, not a scum gambit but a neutral gambit.
No. I expressed suspicion on him about wanting to vig SB right off the bat. Glossed over the rest as I was going back and fourth with Ced. Tacky brought it back up and I looked into it.
Keeps on defending a neutral-lynch after Cyan and myself had disregarded the notion as silly.
I like how he claims he expressed suspicion towards Loran about wanting to vig SB. As far as I can see, that is a blatant lie. The only thing he said about Loran prior to his TackyBarn was that Loran was "hasty", and came across as SB's counterpart, which could obviously be disregarded at this point. I don't see the real suspicion?
we have an unknown mechanic, which the town is refusing to coordinate in any way or even disclose
Do you mean this?
Every role has the basic ability to target another player and there are roles which are triggered from being targeted.
If so I thought you were talking about other abilities.
Well if they're anti town. But if we vig one and then the other the next night I don't see that being to harmful to the town. Unless what SB said about carrying on in his place.
unvote loran
Ach, I really, really dislike this unvote, how he explains it, and just everything about it. First he gives something that seems like a reason why he voted for Loran, except that the quote is from after he put down his vote. Then, instead of letting Loran answer the question, he comes up with his own answer on Loran's behalf, figures he "might be misguided" and unvotes. To me, this reads as scum who tried to jump on a starting bandwagon, but when questioned knows that he had no actual reason to be on it, and as such meekly tries to unvote, hoping to cause no suspicion. You might be misguided, indeed.
It's also telling that AE was advocating lynching one of SB/Kpaca, without really specifying which one..all while having his vote on Loran.
As RafK would say 'Fish. Rotten. Denmark'.
No its not. Since I earlier said to vig kpaca that would leave SB. But that would be left for discussion, which is why my vote stayed on Loran.
But his suggestion of vigging kpaca came before any talk of lynching the other. To me, this implies that he wants kpaca dead rather than SB, but in this post he seems to say that he would prefer to lynch SB, as he suggested kpaca for vigging. Seems to be a disconnect there.
Simple fact that towns don't lynch neutrals as they win with whoever is left. So maybe he knew the town wouldn't lynch SB.
I'm just going on when I was a neutral with an alternate win con.
Lets game the mod and theorize for a moment. What if SB can only target townies and Kpaca non townies? SB pointing out the evil part.
OK fine. Let them be, leave them at the vigs discretion.
!!!
"Simple fact that towns don't lynch neutrals"? He had just been advocating lynching them in his last four posts! And from his disgruntled "Ok fine. Let them be", I wager that he still would have prefered to lynch one of them.
AE: IF it's a fact that towns don't lynch neutrals AND someone suggests lynching a neutral WHAT would you think of them?
I don't feel defeated in the slightest. Just that I mistook what Loran suggested. The fact that lynching me for not trusting the neutrals is lame and my lynch should help the town identify some scum.
And thus he goes on to deny any earlier signs of defeatism, only to follow up with... more defeatism? Why, yes, I would like some cake.
Also "lynching me for not trusting the neutrals is lame". Huh?
Anyone other than Cyan who only locks onto one player at a time until they're lynched? Hows that for spiteful?
Yeah lets put all our cards on the table for the scum to pick through. No degree of pro-town what so ever there, which ever way you spin it.
Speaking of pro-town, you haven't actually been that helpful to the town at all. Your just snaking your way through the thread waiting for wagons to pop up. And defending Jobo here, Starting to see a connection. FOS
Followed nicely by ad hominem, and possibly attempted deflection.
See what I said above? That means its not the first time he's been negative toward me. So take your not pro-town and stick it. Full claim day one is not pro town, sorry.
It's still a personal attack, because you are attacking the person and not the argument.
I didn't flip flop. Where do you get that? That 1st quote talks about them being non pro town. The 2nd talks about killing them off. What are you talking about?
Yeah, in the game I was in they had the chance to lynch me but they didn't because I was just a neutral. They lost and my 3 man neutral team won.
At the very least you flip floped on Loran. And again with the fearmongering of "once upon I was in this there neutral group which was nothing at all like in this game and it was awesome and we won and we should lynch neutrals"?
And I've got nothing on the last two posts. I suppose I could mention that saying he's "content" with vigging seems to imply that he still would prefer us to waste a lynch on one of them.
So, in short:
-Wants to lynch the neutrals (and pretty badly it seems)
-Bad vote on Loran
-HORRIBLE unvote on Loran
-Fearmongering
-Defeatism and generally poor response to any pressure
Oh, and did you notice something in those posts? That's correct, he has done a big, fat zero attempt at scumhunting this entire game. Just barning, and going on and on and on about the neutrals, even long after other people left the topic.
(Actually, that's not quite true. After he came under some pressure he's started attacking Jobo.)
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If you vote AE now, I'll vote TACKY later. And Duke will win some more games in football.
Sincerely,
Cyanzilla
Only if you add the bolded portions, Cyan.
Also Cyan, no offense, but responding you with
Anyone other than Cyan who only locks onto one player at a time until they're lynched? Hows that for spiteful?
just reads as frustrated player rather than any indication of alignment. You DO tend to lock onto a player and ride him hard until he's lynched as a matter of strategy. And AE isn't exactly a good player who would likely handle that situation gracefully.
Anyhow...I still want to hear more from Tacky here. So I'm not changing my vote.
@Zchinque: Defeatism comes from annoyed, frustrated townies too you know. And Fearmongering is a bogus scum tell...(I fail to see the difference between his bringing up of his neutral group and me bringing up the mafia mason gambit). Just saying.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I don't feel good about joboman, but I read genuine frustration from Archmage Eternal here. Either joboman's town who's got scum AE cornered or joboman's scum who's getting on town AE's nerves.
@Talore - I didn't notice the irony in that remark. Nice find.
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Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Unusual? You know that?
That is not flip flopn' by the way. You have it wrong.
I don't trust them. Towns usally leave neutrals alone and that could be costly.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm the Doc goo. Anyone who targets me is Doc protected for the Night.
This is not a "triggered" ability. There is no "Threshold" number of people that need to target me to get this protection. You target me, you are protected.
And the reason I decided to bring this up is because I had a tiny epiphany, which was that because this ability works in reverse, the usual reasons for staying "hidden" as a Doc just don't apply. Like, if I could go around secretly protecting people, then there's a benefit to me doing so. But if the only way people get the protection is for them to decide to target me, then how is that going to work? Who's just going to randomly do that? And, even if they did it, they wouldn't know that they were protected and probably wouldn't do it again. So I just decided, screw it. Now people can actually make an informed choice.
It's entirely possible that the scum in this game have a way (or multiple ways) to mess with this, but I still like having it out there, because now they have to worry about it. They have to worry about the possibility of anyone they try to kill being protected. So, maybe they just decide to kill me, but even that is going to make them nervous now. Because scum don't really like going after a target that's too obvious. Who knows what else might be out there to stop them/catch them?
You may not believe me, or you may think I'm dumb for saying this, or you may evn think this is just some crazy gambit on my part, and you are free to do so. But what's done is done.
That said, I'm not necessarily for a total "Mass" claim. It really depends on your ability and how it works. There may be benefit to others coming out. Like, I've also got the generic targeting ability which I can still use to target someone else. Someone with a "Watcher" type ability would be awesome, but there might be more that would be suitable.
If anyone wants to volunteer for me to target them tonight I'm taking names. You don't have to say what it will do.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Umm... why do you want volunteers for you to target, as per that last paragraph?
Digesting this...
From the sign-up thread (noooooo! I'm referencing publicly available information! NOOOOOO!!!!!!)
So, yes.
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Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Show us.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I'm content with a vign' by the way.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I agree, that does make it sound as though there are no anti-town neutrals. Good find.
You bread-crumbed this so I believe you. The claim would be hard to disprove (barring a Cop investigation, and you could be a Godfather) because anyone who got NK'd wouldn't be alive to confirm that he did not target you, but this still seems like a stupid thing to do as scum because we would definitely lynch you after a couple Nights of you not dying and other people dying when they should have been targeting you.
I've been doing some thinking about the setup.
A list detailing each player's Night targets is a bad idea.
A mass-claim is a bad idea.
But what if everyone who has an ability that benefits from being targeted or confers benefits to players who target him claims that he has such an ability? No need to elaborate; simply stating that one has it is enough. At Night players can use their abilities as they choose given this information.
The main benefit of this plan is that we can better coordinate targeting so that our power roles get powered up to the fullest extent possible without revealing their exact abilities.
I can see a few problems with it, though.
1. This would reveal some of our power roles.
2. Scum could lie about their abilities.
3. Scum could deliberately target townies who don't benefit from being targeted during Night (with roleblocks or what have you) and avoid or kill those who do.
The first issue is mitigated by the fact that the power roles don't have to specify what kind of powers they have and by the fact that Axelrod already gave the scum their #1 target for the Night.
The second risk is minor because in this kind of claim scum actually have an incentive to tell the truth so that their powers are turned on by town targeting. Players then have to decide which amongst the claimed players is most town and should be targeted while leaving the scummy players alone.
The third point against doesn't worry me much because I think the benefits outweigh the negatives due to our numerical advantage.
Thoughts?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
If only one goo targets me I go into tracker mode.
If only two goo target me I go into watcher mode.
I will target axelrod tonight. If I die axel is scum.
If I survive I can tell you all who targeted axel.
So I need only 2 goo to target me this night. Also my plan is scum proof.
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YAY MORE UNILATERAL CLAIMS!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Now that we've outed two of the very biggest power-roles can we PLEASE go with a mass-claim? Hell, I'd be willing to claim unilaterally at this point since my ability doesn't seem very powerful.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
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Let's look at the most recent situation, that of Axelrod claiming to be goo doctor. Assume he is town and that we are massclaiming. Everyone's role will be revealed, and the scum will be sure whether they had the freedom to kill Axelrod immediately or if they had to jump through additional hoops to get at him.
Now, same situation, except we don't massclaim. Scum know they must kill Axelrod. But they don't know if there is a hidden watcher who will immediately bust them if they do, etc etc.
Uncertainty is a scum weapon, but it is a town weapon also.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Are you going to explain this at some later point? Did you have some sort of plan? Feel free to not answer either of those questions if you feel it would be bad for the town.
I will volunteer to target Vez tonight.
On the mass claim. I agree with zinda, even with doc/obs claimed I think the scum would get more out of knowing the set up then the town would. This might change if we get more power roles outed. For now I think it's a bad idea.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
I am against a mass claim.
My claim now is very good because if axel tells the truth then I am protected and make axel claim real.
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That would be back-breaking, but also seems unlikely enough that I wasn't going to worry about it. I don't know what else you think we should be doing, Ced, that my claim screws up, but, sorry?
Vez: that sounds good, if I'm understanding correctly - do you become a "Watcher" as long as two or more target you, or does it have to be two exactly? Because if it's the latter, then it's easy for the scum to disrupt. If it's just "more than two" then I can target you myself to help turn the ability on.
@axel: I don't want to answer that question right now.
So who does the plan go?
I prefer that falkonn won't target me tonight.
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And if it's coordinated, then the scum can step in to mess with it, I realize this.
At that point, for me, the question becomes "are there a lot of other players out there with roles/abilities that need to be coordinated in order to work?" Because if there are, then it becomes more of a numbers game. And the scum can't disrupt everything - at least not while the town still has significantly more people.
I really want to be targeted by the 2 neutrals because that way I am sure scum won't say "I will target vez" and don't do it.
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...my life for Aiur?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
This does bug me, as I don't see why someone with an ability that "doesn't seem very powerful" would be pushing so hard for a Mass claim right off the bat. Just hoping good things would happen? At the very least I'd have thought you had some kind of plan, usually related to one's ability, to go with it.
Like, I thought this made some sense, but your other post seems to contradict it. Is this a good ability or not, Jobo?
SB/kpaca, any of you willing to go along with that?
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
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Metal Gear Solid 3
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Kingdom Hearts
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Mass Effect
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Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Random post. Just to distract attention.
Speculation about what scum could do. It seemed to me like you tried to think this but you spoke it loudly.
Another useless post. Gives some town reads. Just so it doesn’t attract attention.
You seem to try to start a wagon on someone. You’re barning talore to blend with the town.
I don’t like this post.You care about your image and try to respond to a question in a bad way.
You may be buddying talore.
Another barn post. You really want to blend in with the town. Another town read.
This post is good. I don’t have anything to object to it.
Sudden change. Just so you go with the town. Still say TACKY is town.
Some more blending with the town.
This post is scummy as hell. You want me to make a case against you so you can refute it. You care about your image.
TL;DR Falkonn has done 0 scum hunting. He never had an idea of his. He just blends with the town.
@falkon: Please get an avatar.
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If nothing else you could at least let me tie him.
I don't think we can rely on the neutrals to target Vez.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
I don't either. Worth asking, though.
Actually, thinking about it, I'm not worried about a scum agreeing to target Vez, and then not following through. That'd actually be good for us. It's much worse if they have another scum target him, leading to three targets on Vez.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Umm...random post was during the random phase as you can see from my next post (at which point the random phase had ended).
Yep, stream of consciousness is kind of my thing. Although it tends to get me into trouble. I'm not exactly sure that this is a point against me. Either that or I misunderstand your point.
Calling that post useless is pretty rough. There wasn't much going on at the time. I wanted to check in since I had some time. I would argue that me putting myself out there saying that Talore seems town is definitely not useless. I took some heat for that actually.
Actually, I was barning him because I agreed with him. And I was definitely not the only one that thought it was weird that zinda claimed that was a random vote.
Are you saying that I care about my image because I wanted to answer some questions that people had asked of me? I'm under the impression that its refusing to answer questions that is scummy, not the other way around.
Could you explain exactly what you mean by trying to respond to a question in a bad way. I'm personally not seeing what your trying to say here.
You seem to be under the impression that barning means that I want to blend into the town. I feel like it has the opposite effect actually. It calls attention to the fact that I'm agreeing with someone, which could be used against me later. As far as the town reads, I call them when I see them. I also admit it if I feel like I was wrong. Personally I'd rather give the town more information rather then less.
I don't see what you mean by sudden change here. This was my first real vote of the game if I remember correctly. I still thought TACKY was town at this point. I explained why when I unvoted, which you left out of your PBPA so I guess that post was fine too.
A guy can't make a joke? You said you didn't want me to targeting you since I was on your scum list. I can respect that, so I told you I wouldn't.
I strongly disagree that people should be able to claim someone is scummy without backing it up. People ask that question all the time as town or scum so at worst this is a null tell..
I have been trying to post more, but things have been really busy recently. It's not like I've been actively lurking, when I do post I try to put content in. Just because I haven't had time to do a PBPA doesn't mean that I haven't done anything at all.
As far as the avatar thing goes, I always just looked for myself by looking for the guy w/ no avatar. But if it would make things easier for everyone I'll find one later tonight while I'm at work if it's slow.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Do we have a confirmed scum to lynch?
Saying that you don't feel defeated doesn't mean much when you immediately follow it up with a defeatist statement.
Nice catch. I will try to reread later to see if I want to join this wagon.
I don't believe either SKs or cults are neutrals. They are non-mafia scum. Neutrals are roles that could win with either the town or the mafia.
That said... there is a strong implication that the mafia are the only scum in the game.
Hmm. Not entirely sure that you should have come forward today, but thanks.
On the mass claim: disagree. Will likely cause more problems than it will solve.
In addition to AE, I will try to reread falkonn later as well.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
It works both ways. Any scum tell can also be WIFOM.
The point is that WIFOM is a saftey precaution we take so as to "not get fooled again" or whatever you like.
You keep doing this, boiling my vote down to one issue, and that's wrong. I didn't vote on deflection. I didn't vote on the bad ideas. The bad ideas pushed me to the edge and the deflection and attacking of his attacker pushed me over. It's a combined effort.
I disagree. Every opportunity I had to make a response to him I did. Like I've said, my vote didn't come until he tried to turn things around on me. I wasn't just voting as soon as a vote piles on, I voted for good reason.
Again, not so. The deflection was the kicker to my vote.
I wouldn't say that these terms are set in stone like this, but I see what you're saying.
Still, what he did seems like a weird mutation of both of these into one. And Loran didn't actually present a solid reason, not at first. He just came out, said that the FoSes and no vote was scummy and moved along. I'm still not sure why doing either of those are scummy, especially when I have sound reasoning.
I know I never made that argument before, I'm making it now. I'm giving you my internal thought process here. I did get my analysis. I just hadn't posted it because I was trying to figure out if it was a scum or a town thing to do, defend to the end. I decided it was scummy, mostly because it came down to him blindly ignoring the glaring disadvantages. Every time I brought a disadvantage up, he answered it by providing a positave, one that was sometimes flawed.
Also, how is this a backpedal?
Consider my opinion that the risk is greater than the reward.
Ok, sometimes it works, sometimes not, sure, but how do we determine that? Just saying that doesn't change anything and makes me more sure that we shouldn't do it. You need to provide more analysis on this topic.
I'm just suspicious as to why you would attack me this way and then not vote. I know your stance on me, it's pretty clear, but no vote, no FoS, nothing. It raised my eyebrow first.
I missed this earlier, but, was looking back at AE's posts and saw it.
And honestly..I have to wonder how no one else commented on it.
In the first paragraph, AE not only ad homs me, but makes it woefully apparent that he is doing so to be malicious. This is not town behavior.
In the second paragraph, AE ignores my statement that it was jobo's explanation as to why he wanted to mass claim that made sense, even though the idea itself was awful.
And then in the third paragraph, first he completely OMGUS attacks me. Then he says that I'm just 'looking for wagons to pop up'. This really can't be considered even remotely true, because A)the only person I've expressed real suspicion towards thus far was AE and B)I was the first(and most vocal) to do so. And of course he tries to make something of the fact that I defended joboman. And yet, all of this terribly behavior on my part is only worth an FoS..and not even a highlighted one.
This is a great, great example of what happens to a scum when they get backed into the corner. More votes on AEscum, please.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
yep, that was the point of my "Really not liking AE's posts at all" comment.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Noted.
Goocount
Archmage Eternal (6) - Cyan, Zchinque, AsianInvasion, Syrenz, Talore, joboman
loran16 (2) - Axelrod, TACKY
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
Dancing Mad (1) - StormBlind
StormBlind (1) - kpaca
Flew (1) - ced395
joboman (1) - Archmage Eternal
Falkonn (1) - vezokpiraka
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
His vote on me is worse....but well...i think Tacky is probably more scummy at the moment. If AE is scum...he'll keep making these plays.
Re: Axelrod's coming out, i don't mind him coming out as such except that it ruins our "vig the neutrals plan" as they can simply keep targetted him to be doc protected. Of course doing that neutralizes the two of them i guess...eh.
Oh right, Tacky. Unvote, Vote Tacky. Your changing justification for voting me is really scummy. Tacky, answer me this: Is proposing what you think is a bad plan a scummy action?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
If you vote AE now, I'll vote TACKY later. And Duke will win some more games.
Sincerely,
Cyanzilla
Random vote.
Just because.
Questions SB. I don't understand why he asks "If it doesen't affect our townieness why would it affect our power?", but I don't see anything scummy in it.
I'm lumping these posts together to avoid repeating myself.
More neutral discussion. Nothing wrong with that as it was the main topic of interest for most or all players at the time.
He does have some valid points on the neutrals, but that doesn't really reveal whether or not he has a town or scum mindset. Discussions about neutral are often, at least to me, barren of strong tells in either direction, and at this point in the game I had a null-read on AE.
And here we start going downhill. Complete barn of TACKY's analysis, and piggybacks on Axelrod's vote for Loran, providing absolutely no reasoning whatsoever. No explanation of what points he agrees with, no additional points against Loran that TACKY/Axel might've missed, no nothing.
...and it goes downhill fast. Suggests lynching one of the neutrals, which is a horrible idea. Nice fearmongering on bringing up what happened with a 3-man neutral group in a different game. Unless he too wants to come up with some wild theory regarding SB and kpaca this has no similarities to this game in any way.
Answers my question as to if he was really suggesting lynching a neutral. Yes, he was.
Keeps on defending a neutral-lynch after Cyan and myself had disregarded the notion as silly.
I like how he claims he expressed suspicion towards Loran about wanting to vig SB. As far as I can see, that is a blatant lie. The only thing he said about Loran prior to his TackyBarn was that Loran was "hasty", and came across as SB's counterpart, which could obviously be disregarded at this point. I don't see the real suspicion?
Ach, I really, really dislike this unvote, how he explains it, and just everything about it. First he gives something that seems like a reason why he voted for Loran, except that the quote is from after he put down his vote. Then, instead of letting Loran answer the question, he comes up with his own answer on Loran's behalf, figures he "might be misguided" and unvotes. To me, this reads as scum who tried to jump on a starting bandwagon, but when questioned knows that he had no actual reason to be on it, and as such meekly tries to unvote, hoping to cause no suspicion. You might be misguided, indeed.
But his suggestion of vigging kpaca came before any talk of lynching the other. To me, this implies that he wants kpaca dead rather than SB, but in this post he seems to say that he would prefer to lynch SB, as he suggested kpaca for vigging. Seems to be a disconnect there.
!!!
"Simple fact that towns don't lynch neutrals"? He had just been advocating lynching them in his last four posts! And from his disgruntled "Ok fine. Let them be", I wager that he still would have prefered to lynch one of them.
AE: IF it's a fact that towns don't lynch neutrals AND someone suggests lynching a neutral WHAT would you think of them?
Not much to say about this post. Except defeatism.
And thus he goes on to deny any earlier signs of defeatism, only to follow up with... more defeatism? Why, yes, I would like some cake.
Also "lynching me for not trusting the neutrals is lame". Huh?
This post I actually have no objections to.
Nice appeal to emotion.
Followed nicely by ad hominem, and possibly attempted deflection.
It's still a personal attack, because you are attacking the person and not the argument.
I've nothing to say of this post.
At the very least you flip floped on Loran. And again with the fearmongering of "once upon I was in this there neutral group which was nothing at all like in this game and it was awesome and we won and we should lynch neutrals"?
But whoever said anything of leaving the neutrals? We just, you know, want to vig them.
And I've got nothing on the last two posts. I suppose I could mention that saying he's "content" with vigging seems to imply that he still would prefer us to waste a lynch on one of them.
So, in short:
-Wants to lynch the neutrals (and pretty badly it seems)
-Bad vote on Loran
-HORRIBLE unvote on Loran
-Fearmongering
-Defeatism and generally poor response to any pressure
Oh, and did you notice something in those posts? That's correct, he has done a big, fat zero attempt at scumhunting this entire game. Just barning, and going on and on and on about the neutrals, even long after other people left the topic.
(Actually, that's not quite true. After he came under some pressure he's started attacking Jobo.)
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Only if you add the bolded portions, Cyan.
Also Cyan, no offense, but responding you with
just reads as frustrated player rather than any indication of alignment. You DO tend to lock onto a player and ride him hard until he's lynched as a matter of strategy. And AE isn't exactly a good player who would likely handle that situation gracefully.
Anyhow...I still want to hear more from Tacky here. So I'm not changing my vote.
@Zchinque: Defeatism comes from annoyed, frustrated townies too you know. And Fearmongering is a bogus scum tell...(I fail to see the difference between his bringing up of his neutral group and me bringing up the mafia mason gambit). Just saying.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity