Here is the only place that comes even close to saying it. I remember reading somewhere that SK's had knives...
Oh, and don't like this post. FOS.
You're basing your game read of a player who claims to be able to identify which aliens kill with their mental powers on the (un-)likelihood of a mass murderer opting to use a weapon other than a blade? Not helpful.
I won't speculate on this information since i don't know.
... are you seriously asking why I wouldn't come forward claiming I'm essentially an SK cop?
*Seriously?*
And claiming i *KNOW* There's an SK loose in the town is rarely a good thing either and would likely end in my death.
Before now, we had a doc, and you're not precisely a power role; it'd be taking one for the team, and/or potentially allowing a blocked kill. Searching for the SK one person at a time is like going through a needle in a haystack.
In addition to that, you have what you believe is the ability to partially/fully "clear" two players.
It seems like something the town might want to know about before you yourself were coming under pressure.
You're basing your game read of a player who claims to be able to identify which aliens kill with their mental powers on the (un-)likelihood of a mass murderer opting to use a weapon other than a blade? Not helpful.
I think I wanna vote you now, your post just comes across as a decent amount of mudslinging using... nonexistant experience to justify it?
Right.
Unvote, Vote Joboman
There must have been a misunderstanding, I only asked a question saying if Guardman's ability worked a certain way. I never said anything like "Guardman's ability works a different way than he sed it did becuz of flimsy bad sources, die scum!"
Before now, we had a doc, and you're not precisely a power role; it'd be taking one for the team, and/or potentially allowing a blocked kill. Searching for the SK one person at a time is like going through a needle in a haystack.
In addition to that, you have what you believe is the ability to partially/fully "clear" two players.
It seems like something the town might want to know about before you yourself were coming under pressure.
Then we will be forced to disagree on this issue, because I believe the exact opposite. My plan had been to survive to a certain point, lying low, and then come out with a slew of investigative results, usually against either hard to read players. (Tell em tilde and axelrod arent that).
How you would have played it doesn't matter in this instance, cause i played it the way I felt it should be played, which is to say, similar to a cop. And the information stating that I should have informed there was an SK... seems quite stupid. After X amount of time, it would have been obvious there's an SK, and in games this size, it should be basically assumed there's an SK.
So the only part of your argument is that... i should have been the lightning rod to draw the SK's kill? Because... there's a town doc, who would protect "Not percisely a power role"?
Your logic here seems incredibly lacking.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
There must have been a misunderstanding, I only asked a question saying if Guardman's ability worked a certain way. I never said anything like "Guardman's ability works a different way than he sed it did becuz of flimsy bad sources, die scum!"
Holy MISREP batman.
You know DAMN well we werent talking about that, we were discussing the SK situation, which Guardman had no interaction with at all.
Unless you were meaning me? Only way this statement makes any sense.
And also: your whole statement doesnt make much of any sense. You were actively sowing suspicion that im lying because "in the past" sk's were un gunsmithable...
And yet i cant think of any examples of that.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
You know DAMN well we werent talking about that, we were discussing the SK situation, which Guardman had no interaction with at all.
Unless you were meaning me? Only way this statement makes any sense.
And also: your whole statement doesnt make much of any sense. You were actively sowing suspicion that im lying because "in the past" sk's were un gunsmithable...
And yet i cant think of any examples of that.
Said Guardman but meant you, sorry bout that.
And I was clearly asking if your ability worked differently than I had seen it work in the past.
And in your last post you stated how the best way you could function was to lay low until you've found the SK. Why did you go against this plan and come out now? Basically all you've indentified is that Tilde and Axelrod aren't the SK while they still can be mafia.
Using flavor as a reason why tilde is town is a pretty bad idea.
And in your last post you stated how the best way you could function was to lay low until you've found the SK. Why did you go against this plan and come out now? Basically all you've indentified is that Tilde and Axelrod aren't the SK while they still can be mafia.
I was a major suspicion target and there were more then a few people expressing that we should line up the next vig target. I figured... might as well out myself now, give some information, rather then when im run up. Not as good as azraels vaunted plan to have me out myself day 1, but still better then waiting til im almost at lynch/vig. Im still 99% sure tilde is town regardless.
Using flavor as a reason why tilde is town is a pretty bad idea.
In games this flavorful, and im sure someone will back me up, flavor has been used successfully more then once. *Shrug* I made *MY* conclusion from it, and gave you the information to make your own, but im pretty sure hes town.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I have trouble believing in a Role whose sole purpose is to identify the SK when that role also has no way of killing/curing the SK.
But wait, that's not your "sole" purpose, is it? You are a "Gunsmith" role, so you can identify any Garaman who can kill with their Garaman mind powers, yes?
Are you saying that the SK is the only one who is killing with his Garaman mind powers in this game? Otherwise, exactly how are you supposed to identify him? Unless he's the only one who triggers you?
I also dislike that you phrased your results as "Innocent" when you are no kind of alignment Cop.
*Eh* To save the time, i have information for the thread and a role claim, just cuz.
There *IS* an sk, and he *IS* a garaman. How do i know this? My role pm states so, and that its basically my job to hunt him. I am a garaman gunsmith.
Night 1 - I targeted Tilde. (innocent, and my mod PM has lead me to believe that he doesnt not possess *ANY* kills, let along garaman pm's.) Look at my actions regarding tilde yesterday.
Night 2 - I targeted Axelrod, and got an innocent statement, but the wording was radically different from the first one. Same format, same... everything else, but the wording is radically different from that of the PM i got from tilde. Alot less positive a role pm.
Kinda untrusting of axelrod right now, very trusting of tilde. But neither is the SK.
I also dislike that you are suggesting that your ability might really be some kind of regular Cop ability, because maybe the Mod. is writing the PMs differently for "Town" and "Non-SK scum." Except you aren't really claiming that, just suggesting it to toss some dirt around.
You haven't said if this ability is any different when you are connected to someone and/or is you have some other ability. Is this a deliberate omission on your part?
So, not much I care for about this whole post. I'm going to try and check if this matches up with anything SB has done this game so far.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Night 2 - I targeted Axelrod, and got an innocent statement, but the wording was radically different from the first one. Same format, same... everything else, but the wording is radically different from that of the PM i got from tilde. Alot less positive a role pm.
Kinda untrusting of axelrod right now, very trusting of tilde. But neither is the SK.
As stated, i will only get results if their GARAMAN powers can kill someone. I.e. do they have PERSONAL powers (Non-faction) that can kill.
But for tilde, i was told that there's no space in his mind for killing. Whereas for Axelrod, I was told that i cant get anymore then that his garaman powers cant kill.
If you got an innocent result from Axel, why are you suspicious of him?
Im really not liking Joboman.
Almost everything he has done... is not a good play. Telling everyone Key's scum, dont lynch key, and basically ensuring that the scum has survived 2(!!) Extra nights, which is 2 more power activations, and potentially, him being the mafia NK'er and making our tracking / Watching less damning.
And his response to every single inquiry? "You're scum, stop fishing scum!"
Excuse me if I dont like it. And as much as i dont like Tilde, I stand by my call that he is not scum at all.
Axel, what is your current connection situation?
Why go after joboman over Axel here? You said your result left you suspicious.
Also, why did you not target joboman if you felt this way?
I have previous with gunsmith claims and "looking for" claims - kpaca also claimed to be a gunsmith who couldn't identify the mafia kill in Cubus's Normal, where he was scum, and there's an unofficial mafia axiom that states that when someone claims they have knowledge of <insert variable here> and are looking for them, they are usually that variable himself or herself. See LOTR I, where someone claimed to be looking for Gollum when he was in fact Gollum, and LOTR II, where I claimed to be looking for Frodo when I myself was Frodo.
The counterexample is, of course, Meadows, where CM claimed to be a SK lyncher and actually was. But the situation was different - C_M's play and abilities clearly indicated he was telling the truth.
I have trouble believing in a Role whose sole purpose is to identify the SK when that role also has no way of killing/curing the SK.
But wait, that's not your "sole" purpose, is it? You are a "Gunsmith" role, so you can identify any Garaman who can kill with their Garaman mind powers, yes?
Correct.
Are you saying that the SK is the only one who is killing with his Garaman mind powers in this game? Otherwise, exactly how are you supposed to identify him? Unless he's the only one who triggers you?
I never said that did I? I merely said the SK was a garaman that i could identify.
I also dislike that you phrased your results as "Innocent" when you are no kind of alignment Cop.
*shrug* merely a turn of phrase. Innocent as in, not SK.
I also dislike that you are suggesting that your ability might really be some kind of regular Cop ability, because maybe the Mod. is writing the PMs differently for "Town" and "Non-SK scum." Except you aren't really claiming that, just suggesting it to toss some dirt around.
Except i never did to a large degree did i? Merely stated that i was suspicious of axelrod because of the huge difference in flavor to my role pms.
You haven't said if this ability is any different when you are connected to someone and/or is you have some other ability. Is this a deliberate omission on your part?
Honestly? Yes it is. I was hoping to keep it quiet in the hopes that I wouldn't draw the mafia. But fully charged I turn into a regular Gunsmith. Want proof I was merely trying to lay low? Early day shoot off of a connection request. Allowing tilde to connect to me rather then visa versa (at the time this occured, I was actually considered fairly townie). And the fact i've essentially been lurking most of the game trying to avoid drawing attention while supporting people i believe to be non-mafia.
So, not much I care for about this whole post. I'm going to try and check if this matches up with anything SB has done this game so far.
Go ahead, it actually does. I've been conscious about how i play this role and have attempted to leave tidbits (Like me going from distrusting tilde day 1, to trusting him enough to connect to him day 2)
SB targets a player, and gets a result saying if that player has an ability that kills.
SB is looking for the SK that he knows is in the game, and knows it's not a Terran (at least he knows they have to have a Garaman power).
SB knows Tilde and Axel lack the ability to kill.
@SB: What is your powered ability?
Full Gunsmith. Can check Humans, Garaman, and will pick up on faction kills.
I have issues with a few things SB said regarding his role:If you got an innocent result from Axel, why are you suspicious of him?
Why go after joboman over Axel here? You said your result left you suspicious.
Suspicion =/= wanting to lynch. It just put him in range of me keeping a closer eye on him. Why joboman? Have you seen the way he's been playing? Have you seen me attacking him and key basically all day and part of yesterday? I believe joboman to be scum, but have thusfar been unable to prove it since he's getting a free ride due to his "DONY LYNCH KEY!" thing. I dont really understand it.
Also, why did you not target joboman if you felt this way?
Because axelrod is a damn good person to be sure he's not anti-town? And even if I am giong through a haystack, being able to be CERTAIN that axelrod isnt the SK is a damn piece of good information.
I have previous with gunsmith claims and "looking for" claims - kpaca also claimed to be a gunsmith who couldn't identify the mafia kill in Cubus's Normal, where he was scum, and there's an unofficial mafia axiom that states that when someone claims they have knowledge of <insert variable here> and are looking for them, they are usually that variable himself or herself. See LOTR I, where someone claimed to be looking for Gollum when he was in fact Gollum, and LOTR II, where I claimed to be looking for Frodo when I myself was Frodo.
The counterexample is, of course, Meadows, where CM claimed to be a SK lyncher and actually was. But the situation was different - C_M's play and abilities clearly indicated he was telling the truth.
Not sold. I may vote SB soon.
Cept, I have the ability to search for ANY kills, not just sk assuming im powered. So while i was unpowered, i was searching for teh SK and trying to remain low key. Now that im out, i'd prefer to go full gunsmith, even tho i suspect ill die tonight.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
While your ability role name may be gunsmith, you can detect kills not done by a gun, correct? Like I assume most Pokemans wouldn't use guns when they could just kill people with mind beams.
Because axelrod is a damn good person to be sure he's not anti-town? And even if I am giong through a haystack, being able to be CERTAIN that axelrod isnt the SK is a damn piece of good information.
I'm looking for some group input here: is this normal for investigation targets?
I don't like the idea of targeting experienced players just to knwo when there are candidates for scum in mind...
Yes it is. I was hoping to keep it quiet in the hopes that I wouldn't draw the mafia. But fully charged I turn into a regular Gunsmith. Want proof I was merely trying to lay low? Early day shoot off of a connection request. Allowing tilde to connect to me rather then visa versa (at the time this occured, I was actually considered fairly townie). And the fact i've essentially been lurking most of the game trying to avoid drawing attention while supporting people i believe to be non-mafia.
Have you not been connected any Night this game?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Its also likely to raise irrational fear in some crazy poster (Niv, Tilde, Seppel) who decide to blow az up, and therefore give the mafia a fighting chance
Hey, you WERE in your "jackass" playstyle at the time ;). Honestly, playstyles like yours and cyans always drove me nuts. Cyan just had this overwhleming degree of arrogance that tended to disarm me a little bit. Yours didnt.
Here's my thought: I dont care overly about this. I refuse to spend ANOTHER specialty just sitting around trying to game the ☺☺☺☺ing setup. I didnt like it in hats (For reasons OTHER then the fact i was mafia), I didnt support it in tales, i dont support it in almost any game i am in.
I do NOT believe in focusing so much on game mechanics that the game basically dies while we try to manipulate our way through it. That's what you want, go play a normal or something. You can get the same results there. I don't play mafia simply to win (that's great but completely secondary) i play it to have fun. TO enjoy the setups, to enjoy the mechanics, and to watch the game unfurl.
So enjoy whatever setup decisions you make: Im not participating in any random "rules" you decide upon.
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I also agree that guardmans post wasnt great, but he isn't scum. I dont see it.
Disclaimer about not adhering to any rules we setup. And a pretty emphatic indication that Guardman's not scum (true).
The hat's plan in hats mafia was VERY Questionable in nature, yet nearly singlehandedly won the town the game by eliminating nearly all the mafia by day 2. All that remained was the actual lynching / vigging of them. Yet, I had a single role that was quite townie in its superpower, and im certain a better player could have rode that role to the end game.
So, this "very townie" decision, nearly gave the mafia a free win (Heck, i only had to get through 1 more night to win). So excuse me if i find these rules that "seem like they can only be townie in nature" a little suspect. Scum have equally as much input, alot more information, and, likely, mechanics designed to get around this. (If robroys a good mod, which i have no reason to believe he isnt)
Explanation for not adhering to established rules (which I felt was sincere).
Actually? My opinion is the following: The scum *DO* have methods to get around the measures we'd be likely to implement, or plain have roles that dont require linking up to be useful, ect. Mafia, in general, ARE alot more powerful then the town. And that this plan to not allow VAST amounts of the town to not connect .... REEKS of scum to me. I will bet you large amounts of money that EVERYONE being unpowered is better for the scum then the town; likely by a large margin. And they dont need as many connectiors.
For every 3 townies that get to connect, 1 mafia needs to connect (Using the numbers from a standard mini of 3/9). Think about those numbers. That means that for us to balance out 2 connected mafia, 6 townie have to connect.
*SCREW* your plans. Im not going to be obedient.
This is an interesting post. The only post between this one and the one before it is ZDS arguing with me. You quoted yourself and seemed to be arguing with someone further about how you're not going to follow town-established rules. Why did you do this?
Ill be flat out. I tried to connect. I chose AI cause i figure he's a much lower target for wagoning, tends to lie moderately low, and, as someone i know out of game decently well, it's funny.
...
Funny how i turned out wrong on ALL these assumptions.
As to WHY i chose to connect: I decided i would connect immediately upon the game starting, and i attempted connection before my first post even i believe. I answered why AI. *shrug*
Im playing with the setup loose and fast i will admit. Its more fun that way.
Gave questionable reasons for connecting to AI (as has been mentioned before, AI doesn't tend to lie low), but the reasoning was believable.
I REALLY Dont know why i do, but this post to me comes off incredibly... non-townie.
(His) Emphasis on "I'm crazy without reason, but I'm going to attack Gigas." I don't know if the fact that he unvoted when he didn't actually have a vote on anyone is relevant or not. I tend to know when I'm voting someone.
Okay, So, i've done a BIT of reading and come to the following conclusions:
I can definitely see why people are voting for AI. He has a distinctively scummy feel this game. Ive noticed the following: -Attempts at fishing / Fishing: When vezok stated he was curious whether AI had connected or not, because he had an outstanding request on me. This lead to a series of questioning that i personally feel had a distinct fishing impression to me. -Attacks on basically every player i've seen. I've distinctly noticed that ai has basically did SOME form of major or minor attack on most of the people who have discussed him / voted him.
Now, for my request: I have an outstanding request with AI. I REQUEST THAT AI NOT ACCEPT IT. Do not Accept the request, do not Deny the request. Sit on it until after your claim has come and gone. I am not going to withdraw my connection request yet, as AI might still turn out to be town, or have a very pro-town role, or a role that greatly benefits the town, or even a role that can be directed BY The town and benefit us that way. If i feel that AI's claim is not good enough, i will regretfully with draw my request for a connection.
Why am i stating this aloud? Because I have accepted Vezok's connection request, especially as i get a feeling i know what his power IS. If im correct, connecting is good.
So here's the gist: If AI accepts or deny's my request before his claim / without town go ahead, he's scum, he dies. I have connected to Vezok (Incase anything happens to me in the next 12 hours ;))
I am still on the fence about AI's scumminess. Logic tells me he's scum, my gut tell's me he's town.
Only way to figure this ouit and get out of this pony show: unvote, vote AsianInvasion
This post has already been discussed in detail. SB wanting to connect with AI and his continued defense of AI is bad. This could easily be damage control if he's a scumbuddy caught in bed with AI.
Leave AI alive for today. Either I, or his tracking abilities, will hopefully help the town atleast a little. At worst, i draw a mafia NK (not a terrible thing, as anita proved, im not a strong player >.<), at best, i survive, and do what little i can for the town.
Suffice to say, it should be worth it to do this.
The only real reason i suggest this is that there seems to be a decent amount of apathy towards the AI wagon, as he doesnt really seem to be gaining steam since the claim, and if anything, has lost some. The town's fracturing off right now, guardman, Chris, ect.
If this isnt accepted, i'll maintain my currect connection to Vezok, if it IS accepted, ill connect to AI at the end of the day.
Thoughts?
More defense of AI.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Tilde occurred.
1. Vezok was a day communicator. He could send me PM's, and have me respond to a degree. (It could be relevant, so i wont go into details right now).
2. Yes, I did want to be connected. Sue me.
*shrug* I thought i had a method to determine of AI was scum or town cause i wasnt sure. My gut sure hasnt been accurate lately. (AI / Joboman in anita)
1. SB, is Vezok's communication relevant now?
2. Blip.
*shrug*: And which method would that be? Your ability, which can only target Garamen? EWP: Never mind. Explained if your powered ability is full gunsmith, and you would have been connected to AI, so you could have investigated him.
I'll respond with a "Duh, No.", and follow that up with a huge order of fish and chips.
Holy hell is that a huge fish! Its like, <-------------------------------------------------------------------------> big! (If only monitors were big enough to make that more then a small fish :()
I dont trust you now.
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For the rest of the game, as exemplified by the events last night, its fair to assume that the mafia will be taking pot shots into powered up townies, likely eliminating those who are offering the most powerful townie feelings. Vezok last night had a great deal of the player base (that i saw) feeling positive towards him. This is definitely a relevant point, and i believe it means we should organize to have as many townies powered at night as possible, yes it will give the mafia a larger group to choose from, but it ensures a greater degree of our powered get through and utilize their powered up abilities.
Second, its too early to call this a trend, but i believe that asianinvasion was NOT lying about his role, and it existed as he claimed it. This means a few potential things. 1. Terrans, due to their lack of POTENTIAL power, have a higher ACTUAL power level. They simply exist on a single plane of existance in regards to their powers, and as such, have a higher GRADE of it then the garamans do. While I would be worried about this, I dont think its too concerning a trend as the mafia wouldn't be likely to fire too many of the terrans to death. I suspect that, at most, we have 1 terran mafia remaining due to statistics.
Second: the reason why AI's role seems SO powerful, ontop of being a terran, he also happens to be a mafia. Terrans would, by design, be stronger in general then garamans unpowered, but likely either on par when garamans are powered, or a little weaker to powered garamans. Mafia also are likely to have the same relevancies. Due to their lower numbers ect, mafia tend to be more powerful in design, meaning that their power levels should be atleast 1 level higher then the average townie. (Using axelrods standard reviewing rubrik). This means that we DO have to start forging and using the connections we do possess. So im suggesting a systematic pairing system.
We break the player base into race, followed by the general townie feeling on a player. Players like Chris, or Key, players who a decent portion of the town express suspicion of would obviously not connect, whereas those most of the town have a pro-town feeling about would likely get terran powered.
This gives the mafia the wides group to shoot into, but also, i believe, would grant us the biggest advantage numerically. Statistically, and realistically, the game cannot be developed with the assumption the entire town will be powered. I suspect its likely balanced around 50-70%. So if we manage to get 90-95% of the town powered, i believe we will have a decent enough advantage, especially if we institute the player pruning i suggested above.
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I know i spoke out about this, and i would hold no bad feelings towards those who choose to not pariticipate, but right now, we have a pretty decent amount of the town unpowered, to the degree i can only think of about 2 powered pairs right now. Cyan & Seppel (LOL), and Azrael ZDS (I think thats the pairing?)
And i sincerely believe that, atleast power wise if not play wise, we have the distinct disadvantage.
Terran's ZeDorkSlipeur: Major Narinder Singh, XO/Weapons Officer. 2nd in command; ship's weaponry; security. Cantripmancer: Eiji Hoshino, Pilot. Plotting and helm for the ship; piloting of the shuttles; EVAs. KeyofDestiny: Hamish McClellan, Engineer. Maintenance of all ship's systems, together with those systems' specialists; power systems; propulsion. Emo_Pinata: Elia Malawsky, Life Sciences. Life support; hydroponics. ChrisXIV: Ka-Ping Wu, Medical. Crew health, physical and psychological.
This is where i feel we should start. I would, if everyone's okay with it, nominate myself to connect to ~Tilde~.
This feels like good game theory. It could also read like a manual to the mafia on who they should kill. The connection request to Tilde makes sense if SB feels he's been confirmed. But it also makes sense if SB is breadcrumbing a false ability.
I see. Thanks EP. I don't horribly care either way I'll be totally honest. Im just seeking to connect to ~tilde~.
No preference who gets powered, as long as it's him or Tilde. Again, this is innocuous if SB is town telling the truth. Without knowing SB's alignment, I find it somewhat suspicious.
I dont have a HUGE issue with discussing the setup. If you think about it, my best strength is likely from setup analysis and what SHOULD Exist if this is a balanced game.
My issue was everyone trying to GAME the setup and not enjoying the mechanics of it. Basically trying to restrict everyone who wasnt Confirmed town from connecting. Or setting up some huge anal retentive program.
Not sure if you noticed, yes i put forward a plan, but its simple, and its straightforward.
Suspects don't connect, non suspects DO.
As for WHO connects to who...
Im inclined to shift around every connection that is in the game that CAN switch around. But have basically no idea what to do past that.
Correct. I trust tilde more then any other player in the game at current. (scary I know) I, somehow, have seemingly gained the ability to read tilde, and by hell is he townie to me.
And honestly, I have seen... Axelrod and maybe one other person express suspicion of me thusfar. Not enough by far to keep me from connecting. But enough that i don't feel comfortable trying to direct the town's connection situation. I presented a plan, and suggested a path for me. One of me and tilde being connected to each other. Since i dont think many OTHER people would want to host tilde, I wanted to. Figured it's the best option available to me right now.
Scummy scummy.
The part that bothers me here is that SB indicates that he knows Tilde is town by SB's read of Tilde. I don't get the sense that it's a breadcrumbed investigation.
Definitely scum there. Honestly, we got 9 days til deadline, which isnt insignificant considering the towns fractured and seemingly surrounding a few select players. (Guardman, Seppel, Chris, TownieTilde) But not enough attention is on Key, who im pretty sure is scum (Or, atleast damn scummy) I have seen almost 0 posts from him that seem to come from a town mind set, and as such, he should die.
Im also not feeling Axelrod. There's something to his play that's just feeling off to me. Ill get back to you on it. (this is not a case, merely a statement of suspicion, so please axelrod, dont bludgeon me to death with your words ;))
I don't feel ZDS is terribly SCUMMY, but i do agree he's seemingly very aggressive and... well... ANGRY this game is the best way to put it i guess.
Yes, I AM playing strangely, thank you for noting.
Votes for who to lynch today:
KeyofDestiny & Guardman. He might be useful, but at the same time, i dont trust him, and keeping scum around is rarely ever a good plan.
The big game theory post that he made earlier mentioned Key and Chris as generally untrusted players who should not be allowed to connect. As far as I can tell, that's his only mention of suspicion against Key until here. But Key is "scum (Or, at least damn scummy)". SB has seen "almost 0 posts from [Key] that seem to come from a town mind set". These clarifications sound pretty cautious.
Actually, this is a decent point against. The mafia seem very paranoid and cautious about connecting to townies. Example so far, AI. He was incredibly cautious and meek about connecting to me, refusing to do so without a great deal of townie go ahead.
Hm... Consider my vote re-affirmed. Thanks Axel.
There has (and had at this point) been plenty of caution about connecting, period. I thought this was a mediocre point when SB originally posted it, but I didn't feel that it was a bad one.
I do believe ALL of the issues the town has had with this situation just explained perfectly.
At first I thought it was a point in SB's favor that he continues defending Tilde after this, knowing full well that Tilde is going to be heavily scrutinized come D3, but then I realized that SB really isn't defending Tilde here. He's noncommittal. I don't know if it's important, but his next post occurs something like 90 posts into D3. I'd feel better about SB had he said something about still believing Tilde here, but he waits until the firestorm of D3 dies down before chiming in again.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Axel occurred.
Im really not liking Joboman. Almost everything he has done... is not a good play. Telling everyone Key's scum, dont lynch key, and basically ensuring that the scum has survived 2(!!) Extra nights, which is 2 more power activations, and potentially, him being the mafia NK'er and making our tracking / Watching less damning.
And his response to every single inquiry? "You're scum, stop fishing scum!"
Excuse me if I dont like it. And as much as i dont like Tilde, I stand by my call that he is not scum at all. Axel, what is your current connection situation?
However, the fact that he is still defending Tilde is a point in his favor. Tilde is still overwhelmingly the most popular lynch target, and SB could have taken this opportunity to distance himself. That he didn't feels good to me.
Right. I didn't disconnect for the same reason I didn't vote you today. You're annoyingly town; and the fact you seem likely to get off in *ANOTHER* game where you did something retarded.
You're town, cause you're not playing well. And you play decently as mafia, *AND* you lurk more.
But this bothers me. He's town "cause [he's] not playing well." Not because of an investigation, not an open-ended "just cause." SB gives the reason for Tilde to be town as his play this game.
Im against it. I still do not support it and believe it to be the wrong move.
Vote KeyofDestiny
Still dont like him.
Back to Key, still without any analysis or significant reasoning.
All in all, I don't feel like I can trust SB. He had ample opportunity to breadcrumb his ability and didn't as far as I can tell. He had ample opportunity to indicate Tilde was town based on info (or at least, not based on Tilde's play) and didn't. He defended AI, who flipped scum. He's attacked Gigas for no reason he could provide, and Gigas (Cyan) was town. He's attacking Key for what I feel are weak reasons.
That leaves me to ponder whether he's the better lynch or Tilde. I hoped that my reread would provide me with a way to prove one of them town or scum if we lynched the other, but I don't think that's the case. If we lynch Tilde and he comes up scum, it's not guaranteed that SB is scum because his "innocent" result was just that Tilde couldn't kill with his mind. If we lynch Tilde and he comes up town, SB could be scum defending a townie to appear town himself. If we lynch SB and he comes up scum, he could be smearing town-Tilde, and if we lynch SB and he comes up town, we don't know that Tilde's town because SB's "innocent" result was that Tilde couldn't kill with his mind.
When in doubt, I guess I go back to my previous position:
I'm looking for some group input here: is this normal for investigation targets?
Axel is definitely a player who I would like to have on my side, and someone I would be wary of as scum. The player choice is understandable to me...
Quote from E_P »
I don't like the idea of targeting experienced players just to knwo when there are candidates for scum in mind...
But this is a really good point. Based on how it sounds like the ability works, even in his unpowered state, it would be better to go after scum candidates than experienced players unless SB's not town. (That's not to say he couldn't be neutral, gunning for the SK, but if his win condition is the town win condition, Axel does seem like an odd choice just because he's experienced.)
The dilemma for me here is that, with SB vouching for ~Tilde~ like this, it seems like I either have to accept it, in which case Tilde is not such a good lynch choice anymore, or I disbelieve it, in which case Stormblind is the better lynch choice.
I don't like the claim. At all. It's convoluted and doesn't make sense to me. I don't think SB's actions have lined up well with his purported ability/results. Yes, he's defended Tilde strongly, but that doesn't fit with a "SK searching" ability. Because even if you know Tilde isn't SK, he could easily still be scum.
SB is trying to fudge this by saying that his result on Tilde is "special" - to the point that, not only does he know that Tilde is not the SK, but he believes Tilde can't be any kind of scum at all - and this explains his strong stance, but I'm not buying it. This sounds like BS to me.
Vote: Stormblind
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
The dilemma for me here is that, with SB vouching for ~Tilde~ like this, it seems like I either have to accept it, in which case Tilde is not such a good lynch choice anymore, or I disbelieve it, in which case Stormblind is the better lynch choice.
I don't like the claim. At all. It's convoluted and doesn't make sense to me. I don't think SB's actions have lined up well with his purported ability/results. Yes, he's defended Tilde strongly, but that doesn't fit with a "SK searching" ability. Because even if you know Tilde isn't SK, he could easily still be scum.
SB is trying to fudge this by saying that his result on Tilde is "special" - to the point that, not only does he know that Tilde is not the SK, but he believes Tilde can't be any kind of scum at all - and this explains his strong stance, but I'm not buying it. This sounds like BS to me.
Vote: Stormblind
I understand where you're coming from here, but if you disbelieve SB, why is he the better lynch choice? If he's scum, he's obviously lying about his ability, so why is he better than Tilde?
I understand where you're coming from here, but if you disbelieve SB, why is he the better lynch choice? If he's scum, he's obviously lying about his ability, so why is he better than Tilde?
If SB is lying, he's scum.
Tilde might or might not be scum at that point (just like now). But it makes much more sense to hit the suspected liar who is claiming info about the other suspected liar first - just because if he's not lying and flips town, it gives us presumably accurate info. about Tilde then.
As was pointed out, if we lynch Tilde first it tells us nothing about SB whatever Tilde turns up as (unless it's actually SK).
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I won't speculate on this information since i don't know.
An "I don't know" answer. Surely you must have made a few thoughts about it, although you might think they're unlikely enough to not be worth mentioning.
But that indicates you didn't think about the possibilities of why there's a missing SK kill from night 1. If your role PM said there was an SK in this game, you should have expected 2 kills night 1.
So.. I'm thinking you're not a SK-seeking gunsmith, but a mafia ROLECOP, who rolecops players who connect to you. That would explain why Vezo was killed night 1. If his ability as a "Townie Demagogue" could manipulate the lynch, it'd be important for the mafia to get rid of him quickly.
ZDS is still scum, Cantrip's still scum, and you.... well...
Oh God, do I not want to be voting for the same person as Tilde ever again.
Help me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Tilde might or might not be scum at that point (just like now). But it makes much more sense to hit the suspected liar who is claiming info about the other suspected liar first - just because if he's not lying and flips town, it gives us presumably accurate info. about Tilde then.
As was pointed out, if we lynch Tilde first it tells us nothing about SB whatever Tilde turns up as (unless it's actually SK).
But lynching SB first doesn't give us anything reliable on Tilde, either (except, if SB flips town, we know that Tilde isn't a Garaman who "kills with his mind").
But that indicates you didn't think about the possibilities of why there's a missing SK kill from night 1. If your role PM said there was an SK in this game, you should have expected 2 kills night 1.
So.. I'm thinking you're not a SK-seeking gunsmith, but a mafia ROLECOP, who rolecops players who connect to you. That would explain why Vezo was killed night 1. If his ability as a "Townie Demagogue" could manipulate the lynch, it'd be important for the mafia to get rid of him quickly.
Oooo, slam dunk! It might be a bus, but the Vezo connection-death identification sells me. I'm ready to vote StormBlind, but I don't know where he's at with votes, and we don't need another rushed end of day. Can I get a:
Mod: Votecount, please!
Quote from Tilde »
ZDS is still scum, Cantrip's still scum, and you.... well...
You still haven't addressed the conflicting information you smeared me with at the start of the day. If you're going to continue to attack me, I am again going to request that you resolve that conflict.
Here are all of SB's contributions up to the point that he claimed Garaman Gunsmith.
Hm. First random post mentions Tilde
Random.
Mentions Tilde again.
Maybe because the LAST time i played in a specialty with tilde was hats mafia, and if you don't know what happened there, ill smack you myself
Disclaimer about not adhering to any rules we setup. And a pretty emphatic indication that Guardman's not scum (true). Do you understand the meaning of the word emphatic? It means to state with emphasis, and... well... i didn't really do that did I? I merely stated that I didn't see the case that was brewing on him at that point and time. Words have meanings, please be more concise.
[quote]Explanation for not adhering to established rules (which I felt was sincere).
This is an interesting post. The only post between this one and the one before it is ZDS arguing with me. You quoted yourself and seemed to be arguing with someone further about how you're not going to follow town-established rules. Why did you do this?
Actually, it wasn't quite an argument with anyone. It was merely a continuation of my previous thought about the (then) current state of the game, and my thoughts on the system people seemed to be leaning towards
Gave questionable reasons for connecting to AI (as has been mentioned before, AI doesn't tend to lie low), but the reasoning was believable.
I haven't actually PLAYED with AI before this game to my memory, so I didn't really know his personality beyond that of AIM, and on AIM he is a pretty passive person. So I made my judgement off that. And i had an express interest in quietly getting powered.
(His) Emphasis on "I'm crazy without reason, but I'm going to attack Gigas."
Again, if you're trying to try to bring attention to something, ATLEAST use real logic and not your fake invented reasons. DId I attack gigas? No, I voted for him cause i found him suspicious. Did i state there wasnt a reason? No, i stated that i wasnt sure WHY i found his post so suspicious, but that i did find it very suspicious and voted him for it.
I don't know if the fact that he unvoted when he didn't actually have a vote on anyone is relevant or not. I tend to know when I'm voting someone.
Its a matter of protocol for me most of the time. It takes a second to do, and has no real effect cept to bother the mod.
Blip.
Explain what you mean by "blip"
This post has already been discussed in detail. SB wanting to connect with AI and his continued defense of AI is bad. This could easily be damage control if he's a scumbuddy caught in bed with AI.
... So me wanting to be able to actively find MORE then just an SK is negative? And I *DID* agree that he has had some suspicious behaviour. Honestly, you're "analysis" is so bloody biased I dont even want to bother continuing, but if you're trying to misrep me this badly off statements people can LOOK AT AND READ, i guess i should make sure the truths out there.
More defense of AI.
Actually, it isnt. As has been revealed by now, If i had been fully powered, i could have guaranteed that AI was scum (Since my gut was telling me he wasnt) and would have allowed us to look at more suspects. In retrospect, yes, a bad play, but hindsight is 20/20 isnt it? I wonder how this massively biased piece of "Analysis" will go over when i turn up town? I sincerely hope someone "analyzes" you this way after.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Tilde occurred.
1. SB, is Vezok's communication relevant now?
Nope. He did explain fully how his role worked, but I didnt see any reason to out it there and then when it might come up later. When connected to a person, he could send them night messages, as well as day messages. The other person could not respond via PM, but he gave me a code phrase to use in the event that i wished to disconnect from him. Lame in bold for no, lame in italic for yes. That was all he said at night since... well... one sided conversations are boring.
This feels like good game theory. It could also read like a manual to the mafia on who they should kill. The connection request to Tilde makes sense if SB feels he's been confirmed. But it also makes sense if SB is breadcrumbing a false ability.
Uhm, again, considering there's multiple mafia's, and a fractured uncommunicative town, I felt that getting such information out in the open, and exposing it for the town to do what they wish with it would be better then me sitting on it and never putting it to use. Remember? Lying low? Yeah.
No preference who gets powered, as long as it's him or Tilde. Again, this is innocuous if SB is town telling the truth. Without knowing SB's alignment, I find it somewhat suspicious.
Actually, its me purposely trying to lay low / not wanting to draw attention to myself. Again, at that point and time, i wasn't a suspect until i started stating that I supported tilde. Tilde singlehandedly has made me the suspect I am now. Just via me supporting him. Hah.
The part that bothers me here is that SB indicates that he knows Tilde is town by SB's read of Tilde. I don't get the sense that it's a breadcrumbed investigation.
WTF did you expect me to do? "Oh i know that tilde is town because i investigated him last night"
"I know that tilde is town"
"Oh how stormblind"
"I used a power on him"
*Later that night, "NK stormblind"*
Its called trying to lay information without directly outing yourself. Ask a good player if they would come out as cop to protect a townie, and they'll likely say no. Especially when i POSITIVELY know, (ONLY) that tilde is not an SK. I didnt, and still dont annoyingly, feel that tilde's play is his mafia play. Its way too sloppy.
The big game theory post that he made earlier mentioned Key and Chris as generally untrusted players who should not be allowed to connect. As far as I can tell, that's his only mention of suspicion against Key until here. But Key is "scum (Or, at least damn scummy)". SB has seen "almost 0 posts from [Key] that seem to come from a town mind set". These clarifications sound pretty cautious.
I do absoluetly love how you glossed over the fact that i specifically said i found axelrod suspicious, that i PURPOSELY state that im playing unusually... Thanks. And yes, I am not a cyan, i am not an azrael. I dont deal in absolutes unless i have 100% guaranteed information that the person i am dealing with is scum. I said ive seen ALMOST 0, because I couldnt be bothered to go through his game play and analyze his posts. Thats not my style. I hate PBPA's because i feel they utterly detract away from mafia, and the fun of the game, not to mention alot of players simply GLOSS OVER PBPA's and read the synopsis at the bottom. You have an issue with that? Too frakking bad.
There has (and had at this point) been plenty of caution about connecting, period. I thought this was a mediocre point when SB originally posted it, but I didn't feel that it was a bad one.
Im noticing alot of caution in this statement, "I Thought this was a mediocre point, but I DIDNT..." So what is this? Hindsight reworking? Now that its later in the game, you find it suspicious?
Too bad Tilde was lying, huh?
Too bad I had no way to know that, huh?
At first I thought it was a point in SB's favor that he continues defending Tilde after this, knowing full well that Tilde is going to be heavily scrutinized come D3, but then I realized that SB really isn't defending Tilde here.
Right, I didnt defend him, yet at the same time, I didnt disconnect from him either did I?
He's noncommittal. I don't know if it's important, but his next post occurs something like 90 posts into D3. I'd feel better about SB had he said something about still believing Tilde here, but he waits until the firestorm of D3 dies down before chiming in again.
Uhm, Or maybe its cause I was busy? Check across the board (Canada, Highlander, goo, Heroes) I have been ALOT less active the past few weeks, something im only now starting to remedy. I appreciate your sentiment, but sorry, I have to disappoint. Hell, i got a PROD ON ☺☺☺☺ING HIGHLANDER (my own game) because i wasnt posting at the time.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Axel occurred.
[quote]But this bothers me. He's town "cause [he's] not playing well." Not because of an investigation, not an open-ended "just cause." SB gives the reason for Tilde to be town as his play this game. Again, refer to my earlier comment. Im not going to out myself to save someone like tilde, tho it seems i have ended up having to out myself to save myself because tilde was so retarded and my defence a little to fervent or something.
Back to Key, still without any analysis or significant reasoning.
Uhm, WTF do you expect? I dont agree with the Tilde wagon, i dont have enough information on Axelrod to do anything about it, and I have seen nothing this game to support that key isnt scum.
But that indicates you didn't think about the possibilities of why there's a missing SK kill from night 1. If your role PM said there was an SK in this game, you should have expected 2 kills night 1.
Well, this affirms it, you and atleast some of this town are seemingly retarded.
So BECAUSE there's a missing kill ONE NIGHT, you expect me to be highly suspicious and know WHY There isnt one. Again, are you dumb? As of night 1, there were 22 living players. And now lets look at whats turned up from JUST THE DEAD ROLES: Dead cop, Dead Tracker, and myself as a gunsmith, do you TRULY expect me to believe there's only a single protective role? Just because TB was a protective role doesnt mean he was the only one. If this is the "genious logic" that people seem to find so wonderful, then you deserve to lose the game.
So.. I'm thinking you're not a SK-seeking gunsmith, but a mafia ROLECOP, who rolecops players who connect to you.
... Alright, So, if this is the truth, then why would i waste my first connection on AI, and why would I have risked so much of my "Towniehood" on connecting to AI for night 1? So.. i could elaborately sucker Vezok into connecting to me so i could role cop him? Please, if you're going to put forward this "Logic" then explain in what possible stretch of the imagination the ENTIRETY of day one would work? Or the fact that I didnt ask ANYONE To connect to me, and took 2-3 days to accept vezok's connection request.
That would explain why Vezo was killed night 1. If his ability as a "Townie Demagogue" could manipulate the lynch, it'd be important for the mafia to get rid of him quickly.
Wow. So i have 2 people who are convinced to vote for me off this post? A total piece of crap logic, supposition about a role you have ZERO information about (oh, right, and totally OBV i was playing into this by claiming FIRST POST that vezok was a day communicator. My bad), and this leads to "brilliant logic".
I'd laugh were it not so pathetic.
Oh, right, someone keep an eye on Cantripmancer and Axel. Axel's logic thusfar has been ABSOLUTELY horrible, (hence me not trusting since day 2 or today) and the fact he's been basically "DIE STORMBLIND DIE!" ever since i insinuated that i dont trust him... right, over defensive much axel?
And cantrip's little... ANALYSIS is so bloody biased and contains multiple fraudulent statements on me, I'd be amazed no ones mentioned it except most players skip PBPA's, and others are seemingly dumb.
I never want to play with tilde again, but he's likely town.
And ☺☺☺☺ING SERIOUSLY, Look at jobomans post. You're saying he's not scum?
I answered alot of information so far and this took a *WHILE*, so im kind of all dumb'd out, and will only be responding to well thought out, non-idiotic questions.
thank you.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
So BECAUSE there's a missing kill ONE NIGHT, you expect me to be highly suspicious and know WHY There isnt one. Again, are you dumb? As of night 1, there were 22 living players. And now lets look at whats turned up from JUST THE DEAD ROLES: Dead cop, Dead Tracker, and myself as a gunsmith, do you TRULY expect me to believe there's only a single protective role? Just because TB was a protective role doesnt mean he was the only one. If this is the "genious logic" that people seem to find so wonderful, then you deserve to lose the game.
Right, as an addition, remember to include that AI outted my request to him. A totally brilliant thing to do right?
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
I see your point about your powered ability vis-a-vis what I said earlier. But I have some questions.
You tell us in 1281 that you know there is an SK and it is your job to hunt him, and you tell us your ability is to gunsmith players and find out if they kill with their mind, which presumably this SK you know exists and must hunt does. OK.
Issues with that:
1. If you need to find the SK, why does your claimed powered ability give you a full gunsmith? All you need is your regular ability for that, right? Why'd you tell us it's your job to find the SK?
2. Your claimed powered ability is extremely beneficial to the town. Why didn't you get powered every day? Instead of giving wishy-washy attempts to close-read the role PM flavor, you could be telling us whether or not Axelrod is scum for sure.
3. You expressed open suspicion of KeyofDestiny several times. Why wouldn't you use your ability on him, if you believed him to be scum?
Your behavior is inconsistent with your claim. Tilde's speculation about you being a mafia rolecop is wide of the mark, but you have not acted in a manner that indicates you are pro-town. You tell us you "have seen nothing this game to support that Key isn't scum" but you failed to use your own investigative ability on him. One of my rules of mafia is that speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available. The tools of certainty were available to you. You inexplicably failed to use them. This is probably because you are making it up as you go along. unvote; vote StormBlind.
What about his attack on Seppel, seeking a claim from a player he didn't necessarily feel was scum?
What about the way he set up his claim to lynch ZDS, first?
What about his knowing that Toast probably prevented a kill N1?
What makes you think Tilde's craziness wouldn't emerge as scum, as easily as town?
1. His interactions with Seppel are one of the things that make me believe he's Town.
2. Tilde thinks way too deeply into stuff and comes up with some retarded conclusions, it's true. He's ridiculously good at wifoming himself into some really silly things. He's never been good at forming his thoughts into coherent arguments.
3. There was only one kill N1, which in the Tilde state of mind, must surely be an indication of a kill prevention! I'm actually inclined to believe him, since there were THREE kills N2 - so unless the Mafia have an "extra kill" ability, it could be argued that a successful protect is likely to have occurred. I actually agree that it's likely a doc protect happened N1.
4. I think that surely Tilde's scumbuddies would have reined him in by now if he were scum.
An "I don't know" answer. Surely you must have made a few thoughts about it, although you might think they're unlikely enough to not be worth mentioning.
But that indicates you didn't think about the possibilities of why there's a missing SK kill from night 1. If your role PM said there was an SK in this game, you should have expected 2 kills night 1.
So.. I'm thinking you're not a SK-seeking gunsmith, but a mafia ROLECOP, who rolecops players who connect to you. That would explain why Vezo was killed night 1. If his ability as a "Townie Demagogue" could manipulate the lynch, it'd be important for the mafia to get rid of him quickly.
ZDS is still scum, Cantrip's still scum, and you.... well...
Unvote, Vote StormBlind
And this post illustrates my points about Tilde perfectly.
He's paranoid, he WIFOMs himself into stupid conclusions, and makes very bad decisions. Obviously this conclusion about StormBlind makes no sense, and would fit Seppel a whole lot better.
And I still think Tilde is town, and I still think Key is scum.
Issues with that:
1. If you need to find the SK, why does your claimed powered ability give you a full gunsmith? All you need is your regular ability for that, right? Why'd you tell us it's your job to find the SK?
Cause thats my flavor. That I'm on this ship using my specialized power to hunt him down. Its not my JOB job, nor does it affect my win condition beyond the basic.
2. Your claimed powered ability is extremely beneficial to the town. Why didn't you get powered every day? Instead of giving wishy-washy attempts to close-read the role PM flavor, you could be telling us whether or not Axelrod is scum for sure.
Why didnt i? Well, night 1 vezok died who was powered, night 2 cyan died (pretty sure he was powered), as did Guardman (obv why), and i dont remember anything about desCoures. So its pretty obvious the mafia are shooting into powered roles, and night 1 / 2 i was fairly townie. (less night 2). So I was playing cautiously, and that likely *WAS* a mistake ill admit.
3. You expressed open suspicion of KeyofDestiny several times. Why wouldn't you use your ability on him, if you believed him to be scum?
Because the town is obviously pushing for non-interference between joboman and KoD. And i honestly consider Axel a much higher priority. He's an amazing player who can basically destroy the town by him self if he so chose; and i didnt have good feelings for axel and considered him more a concern then kod. Kod's barely posting and not a threat to anyone except him self.
Your behavior is inconsistent with your claim. Tilde's speculation about you being a mafia rolecop is wide of the mark, but you have not acted in a manner that indicates you are pro-town. You tell us you "have seen nothing this game to support that Key isn't scum" but you failed to use your own investigative ability on him. One of my rules of mafia is that speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available. The tools of certainty were available to you. You inexplicably failed to use them. This is probably because you are making it up as you go along. unvote; vote StormBlind.
Believe what you wish. I answered why i chose as i did.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
... Alright, So, if this is the truth, then why would i waste my first connection on AI, and why would I have risked so much of my "Towniehood" on connecting to AI for night 1? So.. i could elaborately sucker Vezok into connecting to me so i could role cop him? Please, if you're going to put forward this "Logic" then explain in what possible stretch of the imagination the ENTIRETY of day one would work? Or the fact that I didnt ask ANYONE To connect to me, and took 2-3 days to accept vezok's connection request.
Well firstly, IN THEORY assuming you're scum, you could've just tried to connect to AI to get powered up thinking town wouldn't want these connection requests in the open. You cuold've slowrolled vezok to try and see if you could weedle your way out of accepting and accepting instead a fellow scum's request.
Also I want to say that AI revealing you wanting to connect to him (I think that's how it went) could've been a multitude of things; if you're town, he could've been trying to seem towner by revealing and slowrolling it, or if you guys are mafia, he might've read the situation and known a no-reveal connection was too suspicious.
Why didnt i? Well, night 1 vezok died who was powered, night 2 cyan died (pretty sure he was powered), as did Guardman (obv why), and i dont remember anything about desCoures. So its pretty obvious the mafia are shooting into powered roles, and night 1 / 2 i was fairly townie. (less night 2). So I was playing cautiously, and that likely *WAS* a mistake ill admit.
This doesn't really work except for vezok. So you did say you wanted to be powered up, but then was laying low because you're afraid of being shot.
Well yesterday you accepted ~'s request. Only vezok was dead. Also you didn't disconnect from ~ which I find completely incomprehensible.
Some other things that popped up in these past couple posts that I might go back and post if I bothered finding them but these were the main things I took problems with.
In conclusion I don't mind lynching SB either as he's my second choice.
Sorry that everything is unbolded and in wonky fonts. I can't get the formatting to fix, so it's all unbolded and some of SB's posts show in black instead of purple.
Maybe because the LAST time i played in a specialty with tilde was hats mafia, and if you don't know what happened there, ill smack you myself
I admit; I haven't read the full thing.
Quote from SB »
Do you understand the meaning of the word emphatic? It means to state with emphasis, and... well... i didn't really do that did I? I merely stated that I didn't see the case that was brewing on him at that point and time. Words have meanings, please be more concise.
"He isn't scum" doesn't leave a lot of room. I've had this argument before, however, with kpaca, who likes to toss out "so-and-so's scum" or "that player's town" statements as though they're fact without having any basis. It bothers me when players do that, but apparently plenty of players do. I will cease assuming that they mean it. I do, however, withdraw the word "emphatic," with my apologies.
Quote from SB »
Actually, it wasn't quite an argument with anyone. It was merely a continuation of my previous thought about the (then) current state of the game, and my thoughts on the system people seemed to be leaning towards
Ok.
Quote from SB »
I haven't actually PLAYED with AI before this game to my memory, so I didn't really know his personality beyond that of AIM, and on AIM he is a pretty passive person. So I made my judgement off that. And i had an express interest in quietly getting powered.
Ill be flat out. I tried to connect. I chose AI cause i figure he's a much lower target for wagoning, tends to lie moderately low, and, as someone i know out of game decently well, it's funny.
The bolded part doesn't sound like it's talking about AIM; it sounds like you're describing his play in-game, but ok.
Quote from SB »
Again, if you're trying to try to bring attention to something, ATLEAST use real logic and not your fake invented reasons. DId I attack gigas? No, I voted for him cause i found him suspicious. Did i state there wasnt a reason? No, i stated that i wasnt sure WHY i found his post so suspicious, but that i did find it very suspicious and voted him for it. Its a matter of protocol for me most of the time. It takes a second to do, and has no real effect cept to bother the mod.
When I vote a player, it's rarely *just* for pressure, and I usually note those exceptions. If I'm voting a player, it's usually because I want that player lynched. If something seems off, I'll mention it. If something seems really off, I'll FOS. I view a vote as an attack.
Quote from SB »
Explain what you mean by "blip"
Sorry, I used "blip" when it didn't seem like there was anything to say about the post. I was trying to be exhaustive and identify every post you'd made, but I didn't have a comment on some of them.
Quote from SB »
... So me wanting to be able to actively find MORE then just an SK is negative? And I *DID* agree that he has had some suspicious behaviour. Honestly, you're "analysis" is so bloody biased I dont even want to bother continuing, but if you're trying to misrep me this badly off statements people can LOOK AT AND READ, i guess i should make sure the truths out there.
This actually made me blink. The anger sounds sincere, but I'm not trying to misrep; this is honest analysis, and the best I'm able to provide. I don't understand how you got from my comment on your post to me saying that "[you] wanting to be able to actively find more than just an SK is negative."
Quote from SB »
Actually, it isnt. As has been revealed by now, If i had been fully powered, i could have guaranteed that AI was scum (Since my gut was telling me he wasnt) and would have allowed us to look at more suspects. In retrospect, yes, a bad play, but hindsight is 20/20 isnt it? I wonder how this massively biased piece of "Analysis" will go over when i turn up town? I sincerely hope someone "analyzes" you this way after.
Since your gut was telling you AI wasn't scum, would you really have investigated him? You're protesting an awful lot here.
Quote from SB »
Uhm, again, considering there's multiple mafia's, and a fractured uncommunicative town, I felt that getting such information out in the open, and exposing it for the town to do what they wish with it would be better then me sitting on it and never putting it to use. Remember? Lying low? Yeah.
Like I said, it sounds like good game theory. It does not, however, jive with my definition of "lying low".
Quote from SB »
Actually, its me purposely trying to lay low / not wanting to draw attention to myself. Again, at that point and time, i wasn't a suspect until i started stating that I supported tilde. Tilde singlehandedly has made me the suspect I am now. Just via me supporting him. Hah.
Quote from SB »
WTF did you expect me to do? "Oh i know that tilde is town because i investigated him last night" "I know that tilde is town" "Oh how stormblind" "I used a power on him" *Later that night, "NK stormblind"*
I felt you were a suspect from the time you were identified as the player who attempted to connect to a scum. It's true that you didn't get back into the spotlight until that time, but even then you were overshadowed by Tilde's antics.
Quote from SB »
Its called trying to lay information without directly outing yourself. Ask a good player if they would come out as cop to protect a townie, and they'll likely say no. Especially when i POSITIVELY know, (ONLY) that tilde is not an SK. I didnt, and still dont annoyingly, feel that tilde's play is his mafia play. Its way too sloppy.
There are ways to breadcrumb without outting yourself; I didn't see you making the attempt.
And you also POSITIVELY know that Axel is not a SK, but that didn't stop you from smearing him, did it?
Quote from SB »
I do absoluetly love how you glossed over the fact that i specifically said i found axelrod suspicious, that i PURPOSELY state that im playing unusually... Thanks. And yes, I am not a cyan, i am not an azrael. I dont deal in absolutes unless i have 100% guaranteed information that the person i am dealing with is scum. I said ive seen ALMOST 0, because I couldnt be bothered to go through his game play and analyze his posts. Thats not my style. I hate PBPA's because i feel they utterly detract away from mafia, and the fun of the game, not to mention alot of players simply GLOSS OVER PBPA's and read the synopsis at the bottom. You have an issue with that? Too frakking bad.
What did you want me to say about your "suspicion" of Axel? It didn't seem scummy or townie to me; I'm not subscribing to conspiracy theory where every line you post is scummy. And as for your statement on playing unusually...so? What's your point? And you couldn't be bothered to go through Key's game play? So we're just supposed to go "Oh, if SB says he's scummy, it must be true"?
Um, so what 100% guaranteed info do you have on Key?
Quote from SB »
Im noticing alot of caution in this statement, "I Thought this was a mediocre point, but I DIDNT..." So what is this? Hindsight reworking? Now that its later in the game, you find it suspicious?
Ironic that this was a post that I felt was in your favor. I didn't find it suspicious at all; I was simply commenting on the post.
Quote from SB »
Too bad I had no way to know that, huh?
Fair 'nuff.
Quote from SB »
Right, I didnt defend him, yet at the same time, I didnt disconnect from him either did I? Uhm, Or maybe its cause I was busy? Check across the board (Canada, Highlander, goo, Heroes) I have been ALOT less active the past few weeks, something im only now starting to remedy. I appreciate your sentiment, but sorry, I have to disappoint. Hell, i got a PROD ON ☺☺☺☺ING HIGHLANDER (my own game) because i wasnt posting at the time.
You're pretty psychotic with an answer that should be pretty straightforward. If you were busy, say so. That didn't foreclude you from breadcrumbing your trust in Tilde (despite his play) in a post that you had time to find and post an ASCII facepalm in.
Quote from SB »
Again, refer to my earlier comment. Im not going to out myself to save someone like tilde, tho it seems i have ended up having to out myself to save myself because tilde was so retarded and my defence a little to fervent or something.
Again, you didn't have to out yourself to breadcrumb.
Quote from SB »
Uhm, WTF do you expect? I dont agree with the Tilde wagon, i dont have enough information on Axelrod to do anything about it, and I have seen nothing this game to support that key isnt scum.
Yet you've taken no steps toward providing reasons that support that Key is scum. Just screaming "Key is scum, Key is scum" at the top of your lungs isn't a case.
Quote from SB »
Well, this affirms it, you and atleast some of this town are seemingly retarded.
So BECAUSE there's a missing kill ONE NIGHT, you expect me to be highly suspicious and know WHY There isnt one. Again, are you dumb? As of night 1, there were 22 living players. And now lets look at whats turned up from JUST THE DEAD ROLES: Dead cop, Dead Tracker, and myself as a gunsmith, do you TRULY expect me to believe there's only a single protective role? Just because TB was a protective role doesnt mean he was the only one. If this is the "genious logic" that people seem to find so wonderful, then you deserve to lose the game.
... Alright, So, if this is the truth, then why would i waste my first connection on AI, and why would I have risked so much of my "Towniehood" on connecting to AI for night 1? So.. i could elaborately sucker Vezok into connecting to me so i could role cop him? Please, if you're going to put forward this "Logic" then explain in what possible stretch of the imagination the ENTIRETY of day one would work? Or the fact that I didnt ask ANYONE To connect to me, and took 2-3 days to accept vezok's connection request. Wow. So i have 2 people who are convinced to vote for me off this post? A total piece of crap logic, supposition about a role you have ZERO information about (oh, right, and totally OBV i was playing into this by claiming FIRST POST that vezok was a day communicator. My bad), and this leads to "brilliant logic".
I'd laugh were it not so pathetic.
There's a lot of anger in these posts. Do you normally get this worked up over a game? I spent a lot of my early games getting concerned when my posts created this kind of response, as I didn't want to offend anyone, but you're a (somewhat) experienced player, right? Aren't you used to being smeared and attacked and bludgeoned by bad logic? Is this really the first time that you've felt like someone was wrongfully accusing you?
Quote from SB »
Oh, right, someone keep an eye on Cantripmancer and Axel. Axel's logic thusfar has been ABSOLUTELY horrible, (hence me not trusting since day 2 or today) and the fact he's been basically "DIE STORMBLIND DIE!" ever since i insinuated that i dont trust him... right, over defensive much axel?
Can I take from this that you don't feel like Axel's playing his normal, expert game that you would expect (which was the reason you gave for investigating him last night)?
Quote from SB »
And cantrip's little... ANALYSIS is so bloody biased and contains multiple fraudulent statements on me, I'd be amazed no ones mentioned it except most players skip PBPA's, and others are seemingly dumb.
You just managed to insult the entire playerbase. You're not shooting for redemption by ingratiation, are you?
Quote from SB »
I never want to play with tilde again, but he's likely town.
How about me, SB? You want to play with me again? Seriously, think about this: If I'm town, I'm sincere in my efforts against you and playing the best I can. Your personal attacks aren't helping me be a better player and will only make you look foolish. If I'm scum, I'm doing exactly what I should be doing: making you look emotional and scummy.
Quote from SB »
And ☺☺☺☺ING SERIOUSLY, Look at jobomans post. You're saying he's not scum?
Actually, I'm leaning toward "When Seppel teleported, he gained control of Joboman's account."
Quote from SB »
I answered alot of information so far and this took a *WHILE*, so im kind of all dumb'd out, and will only be responding to well thought out, non-idiotic questions.
And yet, I don't feel like you answered much at all. But thanks for indicating that you're going to lurk for awhile.
Right, as an addition, remember to include that AI outted my request to him. A totally brilliant thing to do right?
Um, if you guys couldn't talk pregame, then yeah, he could be playing it safe by wanting to appear like he's not hiding the connection to his scumbuddy.
Because the town is obviously pushing for non-interference between joboman and KoD. And i honestly consider Axel a much higher priority. He's an amazing player who can basically destroy the town by him self if he so chose; and i didnt have good feelings for axel and considered him more a concern then kod. Kod's barely posting and not a threat to anyone except him self.
So you ignored your suspicions because another player whom you find suspicious asked us not to lynch Key, and interpreted that as "don't investigate him, either"? That doesn't seem like a good play choice, nor does it seem like one that you would make (despite your protests that you're not Cyan, I do get a level of self-assuredness from you that comes through quite often as arrogance).
I read the gunsmith cop stuff quickly. I must be too tired to comprehend though since i have no idea wats going on, so i'm doing a reread when i wake up. However, joboman is getting really annoying with the pokeman crap.
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KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
The wagon on StormBlind is absolutely terrible. He has made non-optimal choices and followed a wrong logic. So what? Is it a crime to make mistakes? If you pay attention, all his claims are consistent and his irritation looks very genuine.
Did you miss the part where his claim makes no sense?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
The wagon on StormBlind is absolutely terrible. He has made non-optimal choices and followed a wrong logic. So what? Is it a crime to make mistakes?
If you pay attention, all his claims are consistent and his irritation looks very genuine.
---
Zindabad is getting increasingly scummier with each new post.
No, see, I already watched the town lose two games based on "so what, our power role made non-optimal choices." It doesn't make sense not to target Key. When something doesn't make sense, it usually isn't true.
Furthermore, SB found joboman to be scummy anyway. So I don't really accept the joboman-KoD relationship as explanation for why he decided to lay off his top suspect with an ability that would guarantee him a result.
What SB is saying is making sense, but it doesn't match up with what he did. He tells us Axelrod is an amazing player who could destroy the town, so he wanted to investigate him instead of KoD. That makes sense. But it still doesn't track that he would fail to get powered on the assumption that the scum killed powered players (by the way, interesting assumption that both Cyan and Guardman were scum kills from a player who knows that there's an SK in this game!) so that he could have only a non-conclusive result on this so-feared player.
I think there's a disconnect between SB's stated intentions and the ones we saw from his play. I wouldn't be surprised if he is in fact a SK cop, but one playing for the Mafia, and he made up the gunsmith powered role after the fact but didn't adequately think out the consequences it would have for his previous targets.
Logically speaking we have two choices, either he's saying the truth or he's lying. There are arguments for both options. However behaviourally speaking, all signs point toward him being sincere. Why do you ignore these signs?
That's funny, I thought I just made two posts telling you why the signs point toward him not being sincere.
Maybe you could elucidate these behavioral signs, because so far all you've told me is that SB's defense of Tilde makes him town, and I don't see how it does.
He said his purpose is to hunt for the SK. He said his ability will tell him if he targets the SK. Except, then he said what his ability actually did was tell him if his target could kill with their mind (please note these are two different things). I asked him "does this mean that the SK is the only person killing with his mind?" He said "I didn't say that." I asked him "Is the Mod. specifically going to tell you "yes, this is the SK!" or just "Yes, this is someone who can kill with their mind." SB did not answer that question.
Furthermore, a role whose sole purpose is to identify the SK makes no sense. It's like "hey, here you go, free info there is a SK in this game. He kills with his mind (unlike everyone else???) If you target him, I'll tell you! I've heard of Psychiatrist roles that are looking for the SK on order to "Cure" them, and if they target the SK the SK converts back to Town. This is not that claim. I've never seen a role that just searched for a SK and did nothing else.
But then, he says, if he is "powered up" he becomes a "Full Gunsmith" and, what? Now he can tell if anyone has any kind of killing ability at all? Not just "with their mind, but with weapons? Does this mean he loses the ability to identify the SK now? Gunsmith is not "Cop." When you have a Gunsmith in a game you always have Town roles that show up with the ability to kill - otherwise Gunsmith is just a Cop. Does it make sense that a role whose apparent purpose is only to "find" the SK loses that specific ability and gets a non-specific one when powered up?
Logically speaking we have two choices, either he's saying the truth or he's lying. There are arguments for both options. However behaviourally speaking, all signs point toward him being sincere. Why do you ignore these signs?
How you say this boggles the mind. N1 he supposedly determined that Tilde is not the SK. BIG FAT DEAL. He does not breadcrumb or hint at this supposed result in any way. He does defend Tilde and comments about wanting to connect with Tilde. But he apparently does not care if he is the one powering up Tilde or if Tilde is powering up him. Which seems odd given his role. His explanation is something like "well, I was trying to play it low key so as not to be a target." Right.
Next Night he supposedly targets me and determines that I am not the SK. He does not hint or breadcrumb this in any way (again.) He continues to defend Tilde well beyond what you would or should expect from someone whose knowledge is only that said player is not the SK. He expresses suspicion of me, who he ought to have the same info for, except he claims, the info is not identical. The PMs he received from the Mod. are different (though the ability was the same) and for Tilde it was implied that Tilde has no killing ability at all (like a Full Gunsmith result) whereas for me all he got was "Not SK". This doesn't make sense except in as much as he has to say something to justify the different ways he has reacted towards us.
You think this is behaviorally consistent with his claim? What are "all signs" that point toward his sincereity?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Attention players. There has been an error in the recent votecounts. On all votecounts starting with the one posted in 1175, the votes on KeyofDestiny should have read:
KeyofDestiny(2) - Wrath_of_DoG
I apologize for this mistake, and will attempt to avoid further mistakes in this game.
First, can you point out where SB said he is no longer able to detect the SK if he is fully powered?
He said "full gunsmith" I do believe. Gunsmith does not detect alignments. Maybe his super special ability will not only detect the ability to kill, but also isolate the SK and specifically identify that one role for him, but I do not recall him saying that. It seems a rather inelegant ability the way it is being described.
Third, do you think he is making up the story about his result PM heavily implying Tilde is town (not just "not-SK")? Keep in mind that this is the reason why he claimed.
(1) Yes, I think he's making up that stuff he claimed about his PM. Duh. Plus, would you or would you not agree that such a result (if it were true) would not fit his claimed ability?
(2) I don't think that's why he claimed. I think he claimed because he was starting to get suspicion on him.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
He said his purpose is to hunt for the SK. He said his ability will tell him if he targets the SK. Except, then he said what his ability actually did was tell him if his target could kill with their mind (please note these are two different things). I asked him "does this mean that the SK is the only person killing with his mind?" He said "I didn't say that." I asked him "Is the Mod. specifically going to tell you "yes, this is the SK!" or just "Yes, this is someone who can kill with their mind." SB did not answer that question.
Okay, since i already typed this up and lost it short forms: I can tell if they kill using GARAMAN Powers. Whatever incarnations that takes. Mental manipulation leading to suicide, TK, whatever. Garaman powers obviously take many forms dont they. And no, i wont be told "THIS IS THE SK!" but i will be told they can kill using garaman powers and the town can deal with it from there.
Furthermore, a role whose sole purpose is to identify the SK makes no sense. It's like "hey, here you go, free info there is a SK in this game. He kills with his mind (unlike everyone else???) If you target him, I'll tell you! I've heard of Psychiatrist roles that are looking for the SK on order to "Cure" them, and if they target the SK the SK converts back to Town. This is not that claim. I've never seen a role that just searched for a SK and did nothing else.
Its not my sole purpose. I do become a full gunsmith later. And there's obviously a vig somewhere. And my FLAVOR is that a serial killer from Garaman has escaped into the ship, and im here hunting him. I said that it was my FLAVOR, not that it was my sole purpose, nor that it even affected my win con. RTFT.
But then, he says, if he is "powered up" he becomes a "Full Gunsmith" and, what? Now he can tell if anyone has any kind of killing ability at all? Not just "with their mind, but with weapons? Does this mean he loses the ability to identify the SK now? Gunsmith is not "Cop." When you have a Gunsmith in a game you always have Town roles that show up with the ability to kill - otherwise Gunsmith is just a Cop. Does it make sense that a role whose apparent purpose is only to "find" the SK loses that specific ability and gets a non-specific one when powered up?
Answered this above. And my powers flavor is that i go into their mind to see if they're able to kill using their GARAMAN Powers. Effectively, if their specific mental gifts can be used to kill. My flavor states that im here hunting the SK. A leads to B. And my full power is to identify ALL killers, not just the garaman SK killer.
How you say this boggles the mind. N1 he supposedly determined that Tilde is not the SK. BIG FAT DEAL. He does not breadcrumb or hint at this supposed result in any way. He does defend Tilde and comments about wanting to connect with Tilde. But he apparently does not care if he is the one powering up Tilde or if Tilde is powering up him. Which seems odd given his role. His explanation is something like "well, I was trying to play it low key so as not to be a target." Right.
Dont believe me then. Dont really care.
Next Night he supposedly targets me and determines that I am not the SK. He does not hint or breadcrumb this in any way (again.) He continues to defend Tilde well beyond what you would or should expect from someone whose knowledge is only that said player is not the SK. He expresses suspicion of me, who he ought to have the same info for, except he claims, the info is not identical. The PMs he received from the Mod. are different (though the ability was the same) and for Tilde it was implied that Tilde has no killing ability at all (like a Full Gunsmith result) whereas for me all he got was "Not SK". This doesn't make sense except in as much as he has to say something to justify the different ways he has reacted towards us.
It also comes from having played with tilde in ALOT of games, in points, AND in hats, where we saw retardo Tilde (Hey, using a stupid gambit to get a player lynched, sound familiar?!) and points we saw Scum tilde. Who was oddly quiet, lurky, and calculating (until the end where he power lynched people using speedy goodness).
They are EXTENSIVELY different play styles, and one (hats) fits his playstyle here perfectly.
ive never seen SK tilde, So if he isnt SK, Then i trust him a GREAT deal for him being town atleast. Just not his play. Im mostly ignoring him now.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
This kind of leads me back to what I asked you first. Is the SK the only one who is killing with his mind? Are you told the SK is killing with his mind?
If he's not, then how exactly does your ability detect the SK? It would just detect someone who presumably could be the SK. Yes?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
He appears to me to be fudging the ability to detect the SK and the ability to detect if someone can kill with their mind. He want to conflate the two, while at the same time apparently allowing for the possibility that other people besides the SK can kill with their mind. This is what I'm getting out of this.
Me neither. He should still get a guilty on the SK, shouldn't he? As well as a guilty on mafiosi, on the vig, etc. Is the concept of a weaker gunsmith that becomes a full gunsmith so hard to grasp?
Are you not grasping the distinction between learning "whether someone is the SK" and "whether someone can kill with their mind?"
And given that his role's alleged purpose is to track the SK, it seems strange that when/if he becomes a "full" Gunsmith, his ability would become less effective for that particular purpose. Even though it becomes more effective at identifying "killers" in general.
So you think he's making it up even though it fits perfectly with his pre and post-claim behaviour? (then again apparently you'd rather rely on your own weird groundless inventions than listen to anyone, so whatever)
Whatever indeed. If you think this claim fits "perfectly" with his behavior I'd just have to call you delusional and leave it at that.
As I said before, I think he's reading too much into his result. But you're making it seem as if he was explicitly told Tilde was town, which is clearly not true.
Stormblind is the one who is making that assumption. He is trying to make it sould like he was told Tilde was Town (or just "harmless" or something). This is the entire basis for his claimed behavior towards Tilde which you think fits "perfectly." Except, he's NOT actually told Tilde is Town, because he is NOT a Cop role. Which means his behavior is dumb.
So, you think his claimed behavior fits perfectly with his claimed over-reading of his own results?
Right. We had a clear majority of players willing to lynch Tilde, and the one or two cowboys taking shots at SB were raising scepticism more than suspicion. He then decided to save himself from no danger whatsoever by claiming the main lynch suspect (also known as ~Not-Him~) is innocent, even though he could have just shut up, let things happen naturally, and let ~Not-Him~ be lynched.
No danger whatsoever? You know, that's a bit of an overstatement, isn't it? And regardless of whether he was likely to be lynched today, he's got to claim something later if he's scum, yes? And some scum actually plan out false-claims in advance as opposed to doing it on the fly. Imagine that. It is not hard at all for me to imagine him planning to claim some kind of investigation result on Tilde - and if that's the case, he's got to say something now.
Does that make even a tiny bit of sense to you? (actually I don't even want you to answer that. It will probably make me mad.)
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
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You're basing your game read of a player who claims to be able to identify which aliens kill with their mental powers on the (un-)likelihood of a mass murderer opting to use a weapon other than a blade? Not helpful.
Before now, we had a doc, and you're not precisely a power role; it'd be taking one for the team, and/or potentially allowing a blocked kill. Searching for the SK one person at a time is like going through a needle in a haystack.
In addition to that, you have what you believe is the ability to partially/fully "clear" two players.
It seems like something the town might want to know about before you yourself were coming under pressure.
There must have been a misunderstanding, I only asked a question saying if Guardman's ability worked a certain way. I never said anything like "Guardman's ability works a different way than he sed it did becuz of flimsy bad sources, die scum!"
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Then we will be forced to disagree on this issue, because I believe the exact opposite. My plan had been to survive to a certain point, lying low, and then come out with a slew of investigative results, usually against either hard to read players. (Tell em tilde and axelrod arent that).
How you would have played it doesn't matter in this instance, cause i played it the way I felt it should be played, which is to say, similar to a cop. And the information stating that I should have informed there was an SK... seems quite stupid. After X amount of time, it would have been obvious there's an SK, and in games this size, it should be basically assumed there's an SK.
So the only part of your argument is that... i should have been the lightning rod to draw the SK's kill? Because... there's a town doc, who would protect "Not percisely a power role"?
Your logic here seems incredibly lacking.
Holy MISREP batman.
You know DAMN well we werent talking about that, we were discussing the SK situation, which Guardman had no interaction with at all.
Unless you were meaning me? Only way this statement makes any sense.
And also: your whole statement doesnt make much of any sense. You were actively sowing suspicion that im lying because "in the past" sk's were un gunsmithable...
And yet i cant think of any examples of that.
Said Guardman but meant you, sorry bout that.
And I was clearly asking if your ability worked differently than I had seen it work in the past.
And in your last post you stated how the best way you could function was to lay low until you've found the SK. Why did you go against this plan and come out now? Basically all you've indentified is that Tilde and Axelrod aren't the SK while they still can be mafia.
Using flavor as a reason why tilde is town is a pretty bad idea.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
In games this flavorful, and im sure someone will back me up, flavor has been used successfully more then once. *Shrug* I made *MY* conclusion from it, and gave you the information to make your own, but im pretty sure hes town. I was a major suspicion target and there were more then a few people expressing that we should line up the next vig target. I figured... might as well out myself now, give some information, rather then when im run up. Not as good as azraels vaunted plan to have me out myself day 1, but still better then waiting til im almost at lynch/vig. Im still 99% sure tilde is town regardless.
But wait, that's not your "sole" purpose, is it? You are a "Gunsmith" role, so you can identify any Garaman who can kill with their Garaman mind powers, yes?
Are you saying that the SK is the only one who is killing with his Garaman mind powers in this game? Otherwise, exactly how are you supposed to identify him? Unless he's the only one who triggers you?
I also dislike that you phrased your results as "Innocent" when you are no kind of alignment Cop.
I also dislike that you are suggesting that your ability might really be some kind of regular Cop ability, because maybe the Mod. is writing the PMs differently for "Town" and "Non-SK scum." Except you aren't really claiming that, just suggesting it to toss some dirt around.
You haven't said if this ability is any different when you are connected to someone and/or is you have some other ability. Is this a deliberate omission on your part?
So, not much I care for about this whole post. I'm going to try and check if this matches up with anything SB has done this game so far.
-----
I have issues with a few things SB said regarding his role: If you got an innocent result from Axel, why are you suspicious of him?
Why go after joboman over Axel here? You said your result left you suspicious.
Also, why did you not target joboman if you felt this way?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
The counterexample is, of course, Meadows, where CM claimed to be a SK lyncher and actually was. But the situation was different - C_M's play and abilities clearly indicated he was telling the truth.
Not sold. I may vote SB soon.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I never said that did I? I merely said the SK was a garaman that i could identify.
*shrug* merely a turn of phrase. Innocent as in, not SK.
Except i never did to a large degree did i? Merely stated that i was suspicious of axelrod because of the huge difference in flavor to my role pms.
Honestly? Yes it is. I was hoping to keep it quiet in the hopes that I wouldn't draw the mafia. But fully charged I turn into a regular Gunsmith. Want proof I was merely trying to lay low? Early day shoot off of a connection request. Allowing tilde to connect to me rather then visa versa (at the time this occured, I was actually considered fairly townie). And the fact i've essentially been lurking most of the game trying to avoid drawing attention while supporting people i believe to be non-mafia.
Go ahead, it actually does. I've been conscious about how i play this role and have attempted to leave tidbits (Like me going from distrusting tilde day 1, to trusting him enough to connect to him day 2)
Full Gunsmith. Can check Humans, Garaman, and will pick up on faction kills.
Suspicion =/= wanting to lynch. It just put him in range of me keeping a closer eye on him. Why joboman? Have you seen the way he's been playing? Have you seen me attacking him and key basically all day and part of yesterday? I believe joboman to be scum, but have thusfar been unable to prove it since he's getting a free ride due to his "DONY LYNCH KEY!" thing. I dont really understand it.
Because axelrod is a damn good person to be sure he's not anti-town? And even if I am giong through a haystack, being able to be CERTAIN that axelrod isnt the SK is a damn piece of good information.
Cept, I have the ability to search for ANY kills, not just sk assuming im powered. So while i was unpowered, i was searching for teh SK and trying to remain low key. Now that im out, i'd prefer to go full gunsmith, even tho i suspect ill die tonight. Correct.
I will now call Garamans Pokemans.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I don't like the idea of targeting experienced players just to knwo when there are candidates for scum in mind...
That would be obnoxious.
So what? The Mod is going to tell you "Yes! THIS IS THE SK! Or is he going to tell you "This is someone who can kill with their mind."
To a large degree? What else are people supposed to take away from what you wrote. That's about as large a degree as you can get.
Why, yes, honestly.
Have you not been connected any Night this game?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Hm. First random post mentions Tilde.
Random.
Mentions Tilde again.
This was directed at Zinda. No read.
Disclaimer about not adhering to any rules we setup. And a pretty emphatic indication that Guardman's not scum (true).
Explanation for not adhering to established rules (which I felt was sincere).
This is an interesting post. The only post between this one and the one before it is ZDS arguing with me. You quoted yourself and seemed to be arguing with someone further about how you're not going to follow town-established rules. Why did you do this?
Gave questionable reasons for connecting to AI (as has been mentioned before, AI doesn't tend to lie low), but the reasoning was believable.
Corrects ZDS when ZDS misattributes SB's sentiments to Zebi.
(His) Emphasis on "I'm crazy without reason, but I'm going to attack Gigas." I don't know if the fact that he unvoted when he didn't actually have a vote on anyone is relevant or not. I tend to know when I'm voting someone.
Blip.
This post has already been discussed in detail. SB wanting to connect with AI and his continued defense of AI is bad. This could easily be damage control if he's a scumbuddy caught in bed with AI.
More defense of AI.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Tilde occurred.
1. SB, is Vezok's communication relevant now?
2. Blip.
*shrug*: And which method would that be? Your ability, which can only target Garamen?EWP: Never mind. Explained if your powered ability is full gunsmith, and you would have been connected to AI, so you could have investigated him.This feels like good game theory. It could also read like a manual to the mafia on who they should kill. The connection request to Tilde makes sense if SB feels he's been confirmed. But it also makes sense if SB is breadcrumbing a false ability.
Misread of the rules.
Misread of the rules.
No preference who gets powered, as long as it's him or Tilde. Again, this is innocuous if SB is town telling the truth. Without knowing SB's alignment, I find it somewhat suspicious.
I didn't see anything wrong with this post.
The part that bothers me here is that SB indicates that he knows Tilde is town by SB's read of Tilde. I don't get the sense that it's a breadcrumbed investigation.
Blip.
The big game theory post that he made earlier mentioned Key and Chris as generally untrusted players who should not be allowed to connect. As far as I can tell, that's his only mention of suspicion against Key until here. But Key is "scum (Or, at least damn scummy)". SB has seen "almost 0 posts from [Key] that seem to come from a town mind set". These clarifications sound pretty cautious.
There has (and had at this point) been plenty of caution about connecting, period. I thought this was a mediocre point when SB originally posted it, but I didn't feel that it was a bad one.
Felt like a good question.
Too bad Tilde was lying, huh?
At first I thought it was a point in SB's favor that he continues defending Tilde after this, knowing full well that Tilde is going to be heavily scrutinized come D3, but then I realized that SB really isn't defending Tilde here. He's noncommittal. I don't know if it's important, but his next post occurs something like 90 posts into D3. I'd feel better about SB had he said something about still believing Tilde here, but he waits until the firestorm of D3 dies down before chiming in again.
Here's where N1 and the asserted investigation of Axel occurred.
However, the fact that he is still defending Tilde is a point in his favor. Tilde is still overwhelmingly the most popular lynch target, and SB could have taken this opportunity to distance himself. That he didn't feels good to me.
But this bothers me. He's town "cause [he's] not playing well." Not because of an investigation, not an open-ended "just cause." SB gives the reason for Tilde to be town as his play this game.
Back to Key, still without any analysis or significant reasoning.
All in all, I don't feel like I can trust SB. He had ample opportunity to breadcrumb his ability and didn't as far as I can tell. He had ample opportunity to indicate Tilde was town based on info (or at least, not based on Tilde's play) and didn't. He defended AI, who flipped scum. He's attacked Gigas for no reason he could provide, and Gigas (Cyan) was town. He's attacking Key for what I feel are weak reasons.
That leaves me to ponder whether he's the better lynch or Tilde. I hoped that my reread would provide me with a way to prove one of them town or scum if we lynched the other, but I don't think that's the case. If we lynch Tilde and he comes up scum, it's not guaranteed that SB is scum because his "innocent" result was just that Tilde couldn't kill with his mind. If we lynch Tilde and he comes up town, SB could be scum defending a townie to appear town himself. If we lynch SB and he comes up scum, he could be smearing town-Tilde, and if we lynch SB and he comes up town, we don't know that Tilde's town because SB's "innocent" result was that Tilde couldn't kill with his mind.
When in doubt, I guess I go back to my previous position:
Vote: ~Tilde~
ZOMGoodness, you doubted it??!
Axel is definitely a player who I would like to have on my side, and someone I would be wary of as scum. The player choice is understandable to me...
But this is a really good point. Based on how it sounds like the ability works, even in his unpowered state, it would be better to go after scum candidates than experienced players unless SB's not town. (That's not to say he couldn't be neutral, gunning for the SK, but if his win condition is the town win condition, Axel does seem like an odd choice just because he's experienced.)
I think he should be a Pinata-n. A Terra-pinata? A T-emo-rran?
I don't like the claim. At all. It's convoluted and doesn't make sense to me. I don't think SB's actions have lined up well with his purported ability/results. Yes, he's defended Tilde strongly, but that doesn't fit with a "SK searching" ability. Because even if you know Tilde isn't SK, he could easily still be scum.
SB is trying to fudge this by saying that his result on Tilde is "special" - to the point that, not only does he know that Tilde is not the SK, but he believes Tilde can't be any kind of scum at all - and this explains his strong stance, but I'm not buying it. This sounds like BS to me.
Vote: Stormblind
I understand where you're coming from here, but if you disbelieve SB, why is he the better lynch choice? If he's scum, he's obviously lying about his ability, so why is he better than Tilde?
If SB is lying, he's scum.
Tilde might or might not be scum at that point (just like now). But it makes much more sense to hit the suspected liar who is claiming info about the other suspected liar first - just because if he's not lying and flips town, it gives us presumably accurate info. about Tilde then.
As was pointed out, if we lynch Tilde first it tells us nothing about SB whatever Tilde turns up as (unless it's actually SK).
An "I don't know" answer. Surely you must have made a few thoughts about it, although you might think they're unlikely enough to not be worth mentioning.
But that indicates you didn't think about the possibilities of why there's a missing SK kill from night 1. If your role PM said there was an SK in this game, you should have expected 2 kills night 1.
So.. I'm thinking you're not a SK-seeking gunsmith, but a mafia ROLECOP, who rolecops players who connect to you. That would explain why Vezo was killed night 1. If his ability as a "Townie Demagogue" could manipulate the lynch, it'd be important for the mafia to get rid of him quickly.
ZDS is still scum, Cantrip's still scum, and you.... well...
Unvote, Vote StormBlind
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Help me.
But lynching SB first doesn't give us anything reliable on Tilde, either (except, if SB flips town, we know that Tilde isn't a Garaman who "kills with his mind").
Oooo, slam dunk! It might be a bus, but the Vezo connection-death identification sells me. I'm ready to vote StormBlind, but I don't know where he's at with votes, and we don't need another rushed end of day. Can I get a:
Mod: Votecount, please!
You still haven't addressed the conflicting information you smeared me with at the start of the day. If you're going to continue to attack me, I am again going to request that you resolve that conflict.
That is either some genius logic from Tilde or some inside information.
Maybe he's an evil pokeman.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Maybe because the LAST time i played in a specialty with tilde was hats mafia, and if you don't know what happened there, ill smack you myself
Actually, it wasn't quite an argument with anyone. It was merely a continuation of my previous thought about the (then) current state of the game, and my thoughts on the system people seemed to be leaning towards
I haven't actually PLAYED with AI before this game to my memory, so I didn't really know his personality beyond that of AIM, and on AIM he is a pretty passive person. So I made my judgement off that. And i had an express interest in quietly getting powered.
Again, if you're trying to try to bring attention to something, ATLEAST use real logic and not your fake invented reasons. DId I attack gigas? No, I voted for him cause i found him suspicious. Did i state there wasnt a reason? No, i stated that i wasnt sure WHY i found his post so suspicious, but that i did find it very suspicious and voted him for it. Its a matter of protocol for me most of the time. It takes a second to do, and has no real effect cept to bother the mod.
Explain what you mean by "blip"
... So me wanting to be able to actively find MORE then just an SK is negative? And I *DID* agree that he has had some suspicious behaviour. Honestly, you're "analysis" is so bloody biased I dont even want to bother continuing, but if you're trying to misrep me this badly off statements people can LOOK AT AND READ, i guess i should make sure the truths out there.
Actually, it isnt. As has been revealed by now, If i had been fully powered, i could have guaranteed that AI was scum (Since my gut was telling me he wasnt) and would have allowed us to look at more suspects. In retrospect, yes, a bad play, but hindsight is 20/20 isnt it? I wonder how this massively biased piece of "Analysis" will go over when i turn up town? I sincerely hope someone "analyzes" you this way after.
Nope. He did explain fully how his role worked, but I didnt see any reason to out it there and then when it might come up later. When connected to a person, he could send them night messages, as well as day messages. The other person could not respond via PM, but he gave me a code phrase to use in the event that i wished to disconnect from him. Lame in bold for no, lame in italic for yes. That was all he said at night since... well... one sided conversations are boring.
Uhm, again, considering there's multiple mafia's, and a fractured uncommunicative town, I felt that getting such information out in the open, and exposing it for the town to do what they wish with it would be better then me sitting on it and never putting it to use. Remember? Lying low? Yeah.
Actually, its me purposely trying to lay low / not wanting to draw attention to myself. Again, at that point and time, i wasn't a suspect until i started stating that I supported tilde. Tilde singlehandedly has made me the suspect I am now. Just via me supporting him. Hah.
WTF did you expect me to do? "Oh i know that tilde is town because i investigated him last night"
"I know that tilde is town"
"Oh how stormblind"
"I used a power on him"
*Later that night, "NK stormblind"*
Its called trying to lay information without directly outing yourself. Ask a good player if they would come out as cop to protect a townie, and they'll likely say no. Especially when i POSITIVELY know, (ONLY) that tilde is not an SK. I didnt, and still dont annoyingly, feel that tilde's play is his mafia play. Its way too sloppy.
I do absoluetly love how you glossed over the fact that i specifically said i found axelrod suspicious, that i PURPOSELY state that im playing unusually... Thanks. And yes, I am not a cyan, i am not an azrael. I dont deal in absolutes unless i have 100% guaranteed information that the person i am dealing with is scum. I said ive seen ALMOST 0, because I couldnt be bothered to go through his game play and analyze his posts. Thats not my style. I hate PBPA's because i feel they utterly detract away from mafia, and the fun of the game, not to mention alot of players simply GLOSS OVER PBPA's and read the synopsis at the bottom. You have an issue with that? Too frakking bad.
Im noticing alot of caution in this statement, "I Thought this was a mediocre point, but I DIDNT..." So what is this? Hindsight reworking? Now that its later in the game, you find it suspicious?
Too bad I had no way to know that, huh?
Right, I didnt defend him, yet at the same time, I didnt disconnect from him either did I? Uhm, Or maybe its cause I was busy? Check across the board (Canada, Highlander, goo, Heroes) I have been ALOT less active the past few weeks, something im only now starting to remedy. I appreciate your sentiment, but sorry, I have to disappoint. Hell, i got a PROD ON ☺☺☺☺ING HIGHLANDER (my own game) because i wasnt posting at the time.
[quote]But this bothers me. He's town "cause [he's] not playing well." Not because of an investigation, not an open-ended "just cause." SB gives the reason for Tilde to be town as his play this game. Again, refer to my earlier comment. Im not going to out myself to save someone like tilde, tho it seems i have ended up having to out myself to save myself because tilde was so retarded and my defence a little to fervent or something.
Uhm, WTF do you expect? I dont agree with the Tilde wagon, i dont have enough information on Axelrod to do anything about it, and I have seen nothing this game to support that key isnt scum.
Well, this affirms it, you and atleast some of this town are seemingly retarded.
So BECAUSE there's a missing kill ONE NIGHT, you expect me to be highly suspicious and know WHY There isnt one. Again, are you dumb? As of night 1, there were 22 living players. And now lets look at whats turned up from JUST THE DEAD ROLES: Dead cop, Dead Tracker, and myself as a gunsmith, do you TRULY expect me to believe there's only a single protective role? Just because TB was a protective role doesnt mean he was the only one. If this is the "genious logic" that people seem to find so wonderful, then you deserve to lose the game.
... Alright, So, if this is the truth, then why would i waste my first connection on AI, and why would I have risked so much of my "Towniehood" on connecting to AI for night 1? So.. i could elaborately sucker Vezok into connecting to me so i could role cop him? Please, if you're going to put forward this "Logic" then explain in what possible stretch of the imagination the ENTIRETY of day one would work? Or the fact that I didnt ask ANYONE To connect to me, and took 2-3 days to accept vezok's connection request. Wow. So i have 2 people who are convinced to vote for me off this post? A total piece of crap logic, supposition about a role you have ZERO information about (oh, right, and totally OBV i was playing into this by claiming FIRST POST that vezok was a day communicator. My bad), and this leads to "brilliant logic".
I'd laugh were it not so pathetic.
Oh, right, someone keep an eye on Cantripmancer and Axel. Axel's logic thusfar has been ABSOLUTELY horrible, (hence me not trusting since day 2 or today) and the fact he's been basically "DIE STORMBLIND DIE!" ever since i insinuated that i dont trust him... right, over defensive much axel?
And cantrip's little... ANALYSIS is so bloody biased and contains multiple fraudulent statements on me, I'd be amazed no ones mentioned it except most players skip PBPA's, and others are seemingly dumb.
I never want to play with tilde again, but he's likely town.
And ☺☺☺☺ING SERIOUSLY, Look at jobomans post. You're saying he's not scum?
I answered alot of information so far and this took a *WHILE*, so im kind of all dumb'd out, and will only be responding to well thought out, non-idiotic questions.
thank you.
Official votecount, as of 1324:
~Tilde~(4) - ZDS, tordeck, Azrael, Cantripmancer
StormBlind(4) - kpaca, Axelrod, ~Tilde~, joboman
KeyofDestiny(1) - Wrath_of_DoG
joboman(1) - StormBlind
Not voting:
Cyouni
E_P
KeyofDestiny
mmod
Zebi
zindabad
With 16 players alive, it is 9 votes to lynch. Please let me know if you believe I have made an error.
The deadline for the day is at 10 am Eastern on Wednesday, June 23rd.
You tell us in 1281 that you know there is an SK and it is your job to hunt him, and you tell us your ability is to gunsmith players and find out if they kill with their mind, which presumably this SK you know exists and must hunt does. OK.
Issues with that:
1. If you need to find the SK, why does your claimed powered ability give you a full gunsmith? All you need is your regular ability for that, right? Why'd you tell us it's your job to find the SK?
2. Your claimed powered ability is extremely beneficial to the town. Why didn't you get powered every day? Instead of giving wishy-washy attempts to close-read the role PM flavor, you could be telling us whether or not Axelrod is scum for sure.
3. You expressed open suspicion of KeyofDestiny several times. Why wouldn't you use your ability on him, if you believed him to be scum?
Your behavior is inconsistent with your claim. Tilde's speculation about you being a mafia rolecop is wide of the mark, but you have not acted in a manner that indicates you are pro-town. You tell us you "have seen nothing this game to support that Key isn't scum" but you failed to use your own investigative ability on him. One of my rules of mafia is that speculation is foolish when the tools of certainty are available. The tools of certainty were available to you. You inexplicably failed to use them. This is probably because you are making it up as you go along. unvote; vote StormBlind.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
My apologies - that was actually a vote from Cantripmancer that was mismarked. The votecount has been edited to be correct.
2. Tilde thinks way too deeply into stuff and comes up with some retarded conclusions, it's true. He's ridiculously good at wifoming himself into some really silly things. He's never been good at forming his thoughts into coherent arguments.
3. There was only one kill N1, which in the Tilde state of mind, must surely be an indication of a kill prevention! I'm actually inclined to believe him, since there were THREE kills N2 - so unless the Mafia have an "extra kill" ability, it could be argued that a successful protect is likely to have occurred. I actually agree that it's likely a doc protect happened N1.
4. I think that surely Tilde's scumbuddies would have reined him in by now if he were scum. And this post illustrates my points about Tilde perfectly.
He's paranoid, he WIFOMs himself into stupid conclusions, and makes very bad decisions. Obviously this conclusion about StormBlind makes no sense, and would fit Seppel a whole lot better.
And I still think Tilde is town, and I still think Key is scum.
Unvote, Vote Key Vote Key.
Why didnt i? Well, night 1 vezok died who was powered, night 2 cyan died (pretty sure he was powered), as did Guardman (obv why), and i dont remember anything about desCoures. So its pretty obvious the mafia are shooting into powered roles, and night 1 / 2 i was fairly townie. (less night 2). So I was playing cautiously, and that likely *WAS* a mistake ill admit.
Because the town is obviously pushing for non-interference between joboman and KoD. And i honestly consider Axel a much higher priority. He's an amazing player who can basically destroy the town by him self if he so chose; and i didnt have good feelings for axel and considered him more a concern then kod. Kod's barely posting and not a threat to anyone except him self.
Believe what you wish. I answered why i chose as i did. Cause thats my flavor. That I'm on this ship using my specialized power to hunt him down. Its not my JOB job, nor does it affect my win condition beyond the basic.
I am very happy with a Growlith lynch.
I think that Tilde is probbably a Sheldon pokemans.
I think that we should lynch either Sheldon or Growlith. They're both mean pokemans.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
So I take problems with a few things SB has said:
Well firstly, IN THEORY assuming you're scum, you could've just tried to connect to AI to get powered up thinking town wouldn't want these connection requests in the open. You cuold've slowrolled vezok to try and see if you could weedle your way out of accepting and accepting instead a fellow scum's request.
Also I want to say that AI revealing you wanting to connect to him (I think that's how it went) could've been a multitude of things; if you're town, he could've been trying to seem towner by revealing and slowrolling it, or if you guys are mafia, he might've read the situation and known a no-reveal connection was too suspicious.
This doesn't really work except for vezok. So you did say you wanted to be powered up, but then was laying low because you're afraid of being shot.
Well yesterday you accepted ~'s request. Only vezok was dead. Also you didn't disconnect from ~ which I find completely incomprehensible.
Some other things that popped up in these past couple posts that I might go back and post if I bothered finding them but these were the main things I took problems with.
In conclusion I don't mind lynching SB either as he's my second choice.
/replace
I admit; I haven't read the full thing.
"He isn't scum" doesn't leave a lot of room. I've had this argument before, however, with kpaca, who likes to toss out "so-and-so's scum" or "that player's town" statements as though they're fact without having any basis. It bothers me when players do that, but apparently plenty of players do. I will cease assuming that they mean it. I do, however, withdraw the word "emphatic," with my apologies.
Ok.
The bolded part doesn't sound like it's talking about AIM; it sounds like you're describing his play in-game, but ok.
When I vote a player, it's rarely *just* for pressure, and I usually note those exceptions. If I'm voting a player, it's usually because I want that player lynched. If something seems off, I'll mention it. If something seems really off, I'll FOS. I view a vote as an attack.
Sorry, I used "blip" when it didn't seem like there was anything to say about the post. I was trying to be exhaustive and identify every post you'd made, but I didn't have a comment on some of them.
This actually made me blink. The anger sounds sincere, but I'm not trying to misrep; this is honest analysis, and the best I'm able to provide. I don't understand how you got from my comment on your post to me saying that "[you] wanting to be able to actively find more than just an SK is negative."
Since your gut was telling you AI wasn't scum, would you really have investigated him? You're protesting an awful lot here.
Like I said, it sounds like good game theory. It does not, however, jive with my definition of "lying low".
I felt you were a suspect from the time you were identified as the player who attempted to connect to a scum. It's true that you didn't get back into the spotlight until that time, but even then you were overshadowed by Tilde's antics.
There are ways to breadcrumb without outting yourself; I didn't see you making the attempt.
And you also POSITIVELY know that Axel is not a SK, but that didn't stop you from smearing him, did it?
What did you want me to say about your "suspicion" of Axel? It didn't seem scummy or townie to me; I'm not subscribing to conspiracy theory where every line you post is scummy. And as for your statement on playing unusually...so? What's your point? And you couldn't be bothered to go through Key's game play? So we're just supposed to go "Oh, if SB says he's scummy, it must be true"?
Oh, and on the topic of absolutes:
Um, so what 100% guaranteed info do you have on Key?
Ironic that this was a post that I felt was in your favor. I didn't find it suspicious at all; I was simply commenting on the post.
Fair 'nuff.
You're pretty psychotic with an answer that should be pretty straightforward. If you were busy, say so. That didn't foreclude you from breadcrumbing your trust in Tilde (despite his play) in a post that you had time to find and post an ASCII facepalm in.
Again, you didn't have to out yourself to breadcrumb.
Yet you've taken no steps toward providing reasons that support that Key is scum. Just screaming "Key is scum, Key is scum" at the top of your lungs isn't a case.
There's a lot of anger in these posts. Do you normally get this worked up over a game? I spent a lot of my early games getting concerned when my posts created this kind of response, as I didn't want to offend anyone, but you're a (somewhat) experienced player, right? Aren't you used to being smeared and attacked and bludgeoned by bad logic? Is this really the first time that you've felt like someone was wrongfully accusing you?
Can I take from this that you don't feel like Axel's playing his normal, expert game that you would expect (which was the reason you gave for investigating him last night)?
You just managed to insult the entire playerbase. You're not shooting for redemption by ingratiation, are you?
How about me, SB? You want to play with me again? Seriously, think about this: If I'm town, I'm sincere in my efforts against you and playing the best I can. Your personal attacks aren't helping me be a better player and will only make you look foolish. If I'm scum, I'm doing exactly what I should be doing: making you look emotional and scummy.
Actually, I'm leaning toward "When Seppel teleported, he gained control of Joboman's account."
And yet, I don't feel like you answered much at all. But thanks for indicating that you're going to lurk for awhile.
Um, if you guys couldn't talk pregame, then yeah, he could be playing it safe by wanting to appear like he's not hiding the connection to his scumbuddy.
So you ignored your suspicions because another player whom you find suspicious asked us not to lynch Key, and interpreted that as "don't investigate him, either"? That doesn't seem like a good play choice, nor does it seem like one that you would make (despite your protests that you're not Cyan, I do get a level of self-assuredness from you that comes through quite often as arrogance).
You are not helping.
Double Vote?
I read the gunsmith cop stuff quickly. I must be too tired to comprehend though since i have no idea wats going on, so i'm doing a reread when i wake up. However, joboman is getting really annoying with the pokeman crap.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Did you miss the part where his claim makes no sense?
No, see, I already watched the town lose two games based on "so what, our power role made non-optimal choices." It doesn't make sense not to target Key. When something doesn't make sense, it usually isn't true.
Furthermore, SB found joboman to be scummy anyway. So I don't really accept the joboman-KoD relationship as explanation for why he decided to lay off his top suspect with an ability that would guarantee him a result.
What SB is saying is making sense, but it doesn't match up with what he did. He tells us Axelrod is an amazing player who could destroy the town, so he wanted to investigate him instead of KoD. That makes sense. But it still doesn't track that he would fail to get powered on the assumption that the scum killed powered players (by the way, interesting assumption that both Cyan and Guardman were scum kills from a player who knows that there's an SK in this game!) so that he could have only a non-conclusive result on this so-feared player.
I think there's a disconnect between SB's stated intentions and the ones we saw from his play. I wouldn't be surprised if he is in fact a SK cop, but one playing for the Mafia, and he made up the gunsmith powered role after the fact but didn't adequately think out the consequences it would have for his previous targets.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
That's funny, I thought I just made two posts telling you why the signs point toward him not being sincere.
Maybe you could elucidate these behavioral signs, because so far all you've told me is that SB's defense of Tilde makes him town, and I don't see how it does.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
He claimed "SK Gunsmith."
He said his purpose is to hunt for the SK. He said his ability will tell him if he targets the SK. Except, then he said what his ability actually did was tell him if his target could kill with their mind (please note these are two different things). I asked him "does this mean that the SK is the only person killing with his mind?" He said "I didn't say that." I asked him "Is the Mod. specifically going to tell you "yes, this is the SK!" or just "Yes, this is someone who can kill with their mind." SB did not answer that question.
Furthermore, a role whose sole purpose is to identify the SK makes no sense. It's like "hey, here you go, free info there is a SK in this game. He kills with his mind (unlike everyone else???) If you target him, I'll tell you! I've heard of Psychiatrist roles that are looking for the SK on order to "Cure" them, and if they target the SK the SK converts back to Town. This is not that claim. I've never seen a role that just searched for a SK and did nothing else.
But then, he says, if he is "powered up" he becomes a "Full Gunsmith" and, what? Now he can tell if anyone has any kind of killing ability at all? Not just "with their mind, but with weapons? Does this mean he loses the ability to identify the SK now? Gunsmith is not "Cop." When you have a Gunsmith in a game you always have Town roles that show up with the ability to kill - otherwise Gunsmith is just a Cop. Does it make sense that a role whose apparent purpose is only to "find" the SK loses that specific ability and gets a non-specific one when powered up?
How you say this boggles the mind. N1 he supposedly determined that Tilde is not the SK. BIG FAT DEAL. He does not breadcrumb or hint at this supposed result in any way. He does defend Tilde and comments about wanting to connect with Tilde. But he apparently does not care if he is the one powering up Tilde or if Tilde is powering up him. Which seems odd given his role. His explanation is something like "well, I was trying to play it low key so as not to be a target." Right.
Next Night he supposedly targets me and determines that I am not the SK. He does not hint or breadcrumb this in any way (again.) He continues to defend Tilde well beyond what you would or should expect from someone whose knowledge is only that said player is not the SK. He expresses suspicion of me, who he ought to have the same info for, except he claims, the info is not identical. The PMs he received from the Mod. are different (though the ability was the same) and for Tilde it was implied that Tilde has no killing ability at all (like a Full Gunsmith result) whereas for me all he got was "Not SK". This doesn't make sense except in as much as he has to say something to justify the different ways he has reacted towards us.
You think this is behaviorally consistent with his claim? What are "all signs" that point toward his sincereity?
KeyofDestiny(2) - Wrath_of_DoG
I apologize for this mistake, and will attempt to avoid further mistakes in this game.
Official votecount, as of 1345:
StormBlind(5) - kpaca, Axelrod, ~Tilde~, joboman, zindabad
~Tilde~(4) - ZDS, tordeck, Azrael, Cantripmancer
KeyofDestiny(2) - Wrath_of_DoG
joboman(1) - StormBlind
Not voting:
Cyouni
E_P
KeyofDestiny
mmod
Zebi
With 16 players alive, it is 9 votes to lynch. Please let me know if you believe I have made an error.
The deadline for the day is at 10 am Eastern on Wednesday, June 23rd.
He said "full gunsmith" I do believe. Gunsmith does not detect alignments. Maybe his super special ability will not only detect the ability to kill, but also isolate the SK and specifically identify that one role for him, but I do not recall him saying that. It seems a rather inelegant ability the way it is being described.
I don't know what you are even talking about here.
(1) Yes, I think he's making up that stuff he claimed about his PM. Duh. Plus, would you or would you not agree that such a result (if it were true) would not fit his claimed ability?
(2) I don't think that's why he claimed. I think he claimed because he was starting to get suspicion on him.
Its not my sole purpose. I do become a full gunsmith later. And there's obviously a vig somewhere. And my FLAVOR is that a serial killer from Garaman has escaped into the ship, and im here hunting him. I said that it was my FLAVOR, not that it was my sole purpose, nor that it even affected my win con. RTFT.
Answered this above. And my powers flavor is that i go into their mind to see if they're able to kill using their GARAMAN Powers. Effectively, if their specific mental gifts can be used to kill. My flavor states that im here hunting the SK. A leads to B. And my full power is to identify ALL killers, not just the garaman SK killer.
Dont believe me then. Dont really care.
It also comes from having played with tilde in ALOT of games, in points, AND in hats, where we saw retardo Tilde (Hey, using a stupid gambit to get a player lynched, sound familiar?!) and points we saw Scum tilde. Who was oddly quiet, lurky, and calculating (until the end where he power lynched people using speedy goodness).
They are EXTENSIVELY different play styles, and one (hats) fits his playstyle here perfectly.
ive never seen SK tilde, So if he isnt SK, Then i trust him a GREAT deal for him being town atleast. Just not his play. Im mostly ignoring him now.
Okay, since i already typed this up and lost it short forms: I can tell if they kill using GARAMAN Powers. Whatever incarnations that takes. Mental manipulation leading to suicide, TK, whatever. Garaman powers obviously take many forms dont they. And no, i wont be told "THIS IS THE SK!" but i will be told they can kill using garaman powers and the town can deal with it from there.
If he's not, then how exactly does your ability detect the SK? It would just detect someone who presumably could be the SK. Yes?
He appears to me to be fudging the ability to detect the SK and the ability to detect if someone can kill with their mind. He want to conflate the two, while at the same time apparently allowing for the possibility that other people besides the SK can kill with their mind. This is what I'm getting out of this.
Are you not grasping the distinction between learning "whether someone is the SK" and "whether someone can kill with their mind?"
And given that his role's alleged purpose is to track the SK, it seems strange that when/if he becomes a "full" Gunsmith, his ability would become less effective for that particular purpose. Even though it becomes more effective at identifying "killers" in general.
Whatever indeed. If you think this claim fits "perfectly" with his behavior I'd just have to call you delusional and leave it at that.
Stormblind is the one who is making that assumption. He is trying to make it sould like he was told Tilde was Town (or just "harmless" or something). This is the entire basis for his claimed behavior towards Tilde which you think fits "perfectly." Except, he's NOT actually told Tilde is Town, because he is NOT a Cop role. Which means his behavior is dumb.
So, you think his claimed behavior fits perfectly with his claimed over-reading of his own results?
No danger whatsoever? You know, that's a bit of an overstatement, isn't it? And regardless of whether he was likely to be lynched today, he's got to claim something later if he's scum, yes? And some scum actually plan out false-claims in advance as opposed to doing it on the fly. Imagine that. It is not hard at all for me to imagine him planning to claim some kind of investigation result on Tilde - and if that's the case, he's got to say something now.
Does that make even a tiny bit of sense to you? (actually I don't even want you to answer that. It will probably make me mad.)
I don't think you even understand the question.