Hey, I've been busy lately and have been struggling to keep up all the posts.
Two thoughts on more recent events.
about Guardman: I don't understand wats scummy about the post regarding town abilities. Isn't it safe to assume that the town has cop and doctor, which I take are the blatantly town abilities he's talking about.
about AI:
after reading toastboys pbpa, i wasn't completely confidant in AI being scum but this post reeks scum.
Sure, if a cop wants to investigate me then by all means, do so.
Other than that, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
So you want a cop to investigate you, and then out himself to either clear you or declare you scum? nice try. vote AsianInvasion.
Also, I need to go through quickly one more time. But I will be accepting requests from specific players i feel are town. I'll try to post a list later tonight.
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KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Some one bring the hammer.
As for what sb said. As long as he's connected to me I don't care. If he breaks the connection then I'll to connect with ZDS.
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Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy. Check out the Shop Thread
it's an OMGHCYAZAKE!. ("OMG, He's Claimed Yawgmoth And Zombies Are Killing Everyone!")
I thought this was cake. But it was a lie.
Quote from ~Tilde~ »
The fact that Sep already had his vote on Guardman at post 454 is a bit of a tell though.
This is concerning to me.
Quote from ~~~ »
Not sure what you'd want to hear from me. I have some (more or less) gut reads on people at this point, but I think I'll keep them to myself for now. No reason for me to go all Seppel right now.
Barn. Seppel posted that like it was a slam dunk, but the more he flip-flops, the more he feels like he's flailing. I can't see any reason for him to flail, so the constant change-up is a ping on the ol' scumdar.
toastboy snuck in a vote while i was writing my post and i don't think the towns done with the symbiote stuff
Thanks for fixing that. No need to rush with unfinished business.
EWP: @Vezok...you realize that since you've connected to SB today, if he breaks it, you won't be able to reconnect with someone else until tomorrow, right?
As of post 487, AsianInvasion has been lynched. (Yes, I know that that number says 11 but the posted lynch threshold was 12.) It is now twilight while I prepare a lynch scene.
Throughout the day there was one clear front-runner to be eliminated. Even so, there were many surprised when public opinion finally solidified against AsianInvasion. With a growl, the crowd shifted into a mob, advancing on the hapless programmer. Fists rained down on him, and with a muffled cry and a crunch his life was ended. Stepping back, the mob admired its handiwork, and the remaining Terrans looked expectantly at the Garamans.
They, in turn, were staring off into the middle distance at something not truly of this world. After a moment, they all relaxed in unison. AsianInvasion, they explained, had indeed been one of the conspirators, partly responsible for the death of Captain Masaryk and Elder Sammon. All was not yet well, but a step had been taken in the right direction. Bouyed, you headed off to sleep... and maybe, to dream of a brighter tomorrow.
AsianInvasion has been lynched. He was Alessandra de Medici, Terran Mafia Tracker.
It is now Night 1. Night actions are due in 72 hours, at noon Eastern on Monday, May 24th. If you have an optional night ability that you will not be using, please let me know this; that way I may be able to start the next day early.
Dawn (or whatever passes for it on a spaceship travelling fast than light) arrives with a scream. vezokpiraka's body has been discovered, shot between the eyes. Apparently not everyone is content to allow the discussions during the day to determine the outcome of this confrontation, and vezokpiraka (Arren, Garaman Townie Demagogue) has paid the price. Sighing, you return to the common area where the twenty of you who are left can continue your debates.
When you are all assembled, though, you find that you are actually one body over quota. As you begin your discussions, Wrath_of_DoG enters the room, apparently having been hidden on the ship somehow. What other surprises will the day bring?
It is now Day 2. Wrath_of_DoG has been added to the living player list. With 21 players living it is 11 votes to lynch. The deadline for Day 2 is set for 3 pm Eastern on Thursday, June 10th.
Any Connections established on Day 1 will still be active unless the players involved were told otherwise. Any outstanding (unanswered) Connection requests from Day 1 have now lapsed.
Here is my work, listed by player and now with links included, just for our beloved mod and because I don't want it to go unread like the one in Meadows did.
I did this overnight, so after AI was revealed as scum.
AZ 11: I like it when games leave the random stage early. Az is off the mark here with some observations about the nature of connections. It could just be odd phrasing here, but "least-powered" and "most-powered" seem to me to refer to number of abilities rather than their relative strength. I think #2 is the most important part of his post and poses an interesting question - are we better off keeping scummy players connected ("leashing" them, you might say) and risking possible consequences for their partner, or leaving them isolated and risking they might connect in secret? 42: I agree with this post entirely. Every town plan runs the risk of handing information to the scum that they can then use against us. But as far as information goes, we're already losing. Think about it in football terms. If you're down 1-0 in the 80th minute, you need to attack. Sure, you could give up a second goal in the process and relinquish any chance at getting anything out of the game - but if you do not attack, you will certainly lose. And that's where we are here. We're already at a disadvantage in the information stakes. Putting nothing forward so that won't lose anything only solidifies that disadvantage. 164: Nonsense. Seppel is really easy to read. His strength is definitely in his town game and not in trying to pretend like he's playing his town game, and I didn't much care for the slur on ZDS that "if you feel otherwise, you're scum." 306: Didn't really care for this attack on Axelrod here. 443: Why me or dC? I thought the idea for burning off requests was to burn them on townie players. Neither myself nor dC has posted enough to solidify our town status.
AXELROD 17: This reminds me of DYH in Fleet Mafia. He had a good reason for it there - I might not have gone about it exactly as DYH did, but it was a good reason - and I wonder if something similar is at work here. To speculate idly, he might be a role with decent base powers but who weakens/loses them if he connects, possibly with some other tradeoff? 50: Now this really reminds me of DYH. 202: This reminds me of lurking scum. I didn't care for how he pops up to talk about Seppel here but doesn't give a solid opinion on him. If you think the people voting for Seppel are wrong, then by definition you must think he's town - but you stop short of saying it. 258: Nothing to say about anything else, but he wants to ask a fairly irrelevant question about the nature of bolmedias/vezok's connection. 301: This is a lot better from Axel but I'm not 100% convinced yet. 328: I agree that maybe ZDS let Tilde off the hook a little too easily, but I don't think this all adds up to "Tilde is scum." Axel has a fair point against Tilde and is pursuing it in a genuine manner. But vehement townies are known to slip up when they post and make scummy-looking mistakes such as that one (ask me, I know - anyone remember Inheritance Mafia? That huge attack on me that dC made? Most of it was genuine because I really had made a lot of mistakes and contradictions in my posts, but I was no less town because of it.) 344: We were, and are, locked in a death struggle.
AI 97: After a strange sideswipe at ZDS - he tried to say ZDS's statement that "most Garamans are town" (which is patently true) might be the result of inside information - he makes an even more ridiculous one here by saying it implied Terrans would be mostly scum. I could do the math, but AI was scum anyway and the reason I bring this up is to shed light on the nature of the interaction between ZDS and AI, which speaks well on the former's behalf. 223: And the fact that AI tries to deflect onto Tilde, who has just made a fairly ridiculous attack on Seppel, is a point in Tilde's favor. 405: I think the Chris attacks in this post are a last go at deflecting onto a weak target. He attempted Tilde earlier - which went marginally well - but he will fail with Chris this time. Really, I get no scum vibes at all from Chris. 468: This may be Zin's Fourth Rule of Mafia: people who offer to "prove" their abilities are likely to be scum, because townies should have nothing to prove. ESPECIALLY AI, AFTER HE ALREADY DID THE EXACT SAME THING IN LOTR II.
E_P 102: I agree with his logic here. Now that we know AI was scum, that's an even greater probability that the player who shunned two Terrans of unknown alignment who were requesting to be connected to in favor of a scum is, himself, scum. So that's another point against StormBlind. 177: This link between tordeck and KoD makes sense to me. But it's pretty rare to me that a noob scum defends a scumbuddy - the default behavior in that situation there would be to bus. So I don't see that as implicating the two of them together. tordeck being scum and KoD being town, I could see.
C'MANCER 28: Hearkening back to the Fleet Mafia comparison I drew earlier - I really am such an anecdotal learner - this reminds me of how the town, generally speaking, dealt with DYH there. So I can see this post stemming from a townie logical progression. 78: Really strong townie vibes here (like every game I've ever played with Cantripmancer. Has he ever been scum?) 185: I don't agree with the characterization of ZDS v. Az as a "crusade" and certainly not by ZDS. I'd say that Az has been steadily baiting him and he is rising to the bait, almost the reverse of the ZDS/AI interaction in Duel Monsters.
CHRIS 265: ZDS criticizes this post as "put[ting] them in tight spots" but I don't agree. The discrepancy that Chris notes is not some sort of slam dunk against vezok, but that's no reason why it shouldn't be pursued. Flip back to Axelrod's peripheral inquiry into vezok's connections - why doesn't this fall into the same category?
CYOUNI 47: Not necessarily true. It is overly simplistic to assume that connecting to a scum will have bad results. That'd be a little suspicious - if we are disclosing connections, as I hope we will be, and connecting to a scum has a noticeably bad effect, we'd be able to identify the scum relatively easily by comparing the symptoms of people who connect to them.
DESCOURES 426: Cyouni, Guardman, KoD and Chris are all easy targets. Now, this is an attribute of dC's that I've seen in his posts before. See SoT, where he attacked town Johm and TeknoLink and The Asphodel Meadows (TAM is just such a dumb acronym for that game...can we just call it Meadows?) where he went after an obvtown PoD while ignoring an equally obvscum AI (this is in his blog posts, btw, so some leniency can be given him on account of being dead.) What I'm saying here is that normally I would look askance on someone who singles out easy targets like the four players listed above, but I recognize this as part of dC's town meta.
GUARDMAN 64: I really think this post is worse than his "backpedal" post. There are three levels of justification and this post is firmly in the "over-justification" category, the province of scum and noob townies. Guardman hardly qualifies as noob, so I tend to see this behavior as scummy. (The other two categories are "no justification" and "reasonable justification.") 139: I almost want to go back over Guardman's relations with Seppel in past games. This is pretty obvtown Seppel behavior to me. (p.s. This was the post that was driving me crazy that I made reference to in 404.) 418: Leaning town on AI? Not in this lifetime. 453: Equally bad post. Why try to portray one of the Mod's rules as a "lie"? Extremely stilted phrasing and considering vezok and Seppel are the two players he identifies as scum here, I think either Guardman is completely barking (pun definitely intended) up the wrong tree or he's uup to something. Seppel is totally right - it's evident that he is referring to his own ability as a "blatant" one and that really does nothing for me.
KOD 135: I know he's getting here a little late to the party, but this is a bit of a fearmongering post by KoD.
MMOD 54: The first mention of burning connection requests is brought up here by MMoD - that speaks really well on his behalf. 236: Large gulfs between posts...check. I'm really liking MMoD as town based on past experiences. (me in SoT: "Should've known MMoD was scum...he only posts when he's scum.")
NIV 51: I don't really see how Guardman's reaction to Axel is that bad. It certainly is part of the subset of "believable townie reactions to someone who doesn't want to play ball." Ask me, I know.
SEPPEL 148: I'm not sure that his posts up to this point have been from a "let's power up because it might help the town" attitude either, so this criticism of KoD is a little bit hypocritical. 190: He's on the same page as ZDS as far as KoD's ridiculous fearmongering goes, though. I like the direction this is taking.
STORMBLIND 76: This is a mix of a good attitude (let's not get ensnared in quibbling over the setup) and a bad one (I'm not participating in any rules you set up.) 82: But there's something of a contradiction here. For someone who seems to be pledging himself to behavioral analysis, he seems unduly worried about the "3:1 ratio" of townie connections needed to balance out the potential scum connective power. Why should we worry? We're just going to catch them by their behavior...right?
TILDE 33: Tilde's logic is correct here. Look back to Amistarian, where not only did the mafia (naturally) coordinate better, but they made much better use of the burnout mechanic. I think it's a fair assumption that we will need to make the best of connections or we will pay the price. 37: But an odd post here. If Az comes up with a plan, why not discuss it? What meaning does the word "publicly" hold in this sentence? 214: This is the dark side of Seppel - his game engenders these feelings in other players. But I actually think Tilde acting unreasonably is a point in his favor. When I played with Tilde in Manga, he was incredibly well put-together, non-impulsive, controlled and classy. And he was scum. Seeing the polar opposite in this post should tell you something. 375: But then there was this. I realize Tilde distrusts Seppel, but as I already talked about, Seppel's response to RR's announcement was a pro-town one, and this was a sarcastic and dismissive take on it. 467: Outright wrong information. AI had the Standard Cop ability (ok, it was actually a variation thereof in which the variation was insignificant enough not to matter) in Meadows and was scum. Just wanted to point that out.
TOASTBOY 156: I like this post by TB. It has an honest and open feel that I admit I don't often get from TB's posts. 451: Really late PBPA. That actually scares me more than a barn. AI was pretty much already cooked by the time TB began to attack him here.
ZDS 71: This post shows a different side of ZDS to the one I am used to. I know ZDS as either scum, someone trying to control the town, or both. I'm inclined to provisionally place him in the town category, based on an interplay we had in Duel Monsters Mafia. 168: I don't see what being smug has to do with being scum, unless it's smugness of the dC/Shad sort after Inheritance was over, viz. the smugness of scum-victory. 172: He hits KoD on what I commented on earlier re: Key and AI's fearmongering over connecting to scum.
ZEBI 287: Lol, where'd he pop up from with this post? Zebi is another extreme lurker, at least so far, and that's not typical of his game as either scum or town. Worth a look.
Named players, feel free to respond at your leisure.
In the meantime, I find a vote: Guardman to be the best course of action.
Re: Toastboy and Key. You two apparently put the 3 votes needed to hammer AI yesterday, and did it before any late-day discussion regarding Connections could be made. AI was pretty well caught already, so a speedbus to prevent townie powerups or discussion seems like a very familiar strategy.
Re: Toastboy and Key. You two apparently put the 3 votes needed to hammer AI yesterday, and did it before any late-day discussion regarding Connections could be made. AI was pretty well caught already, so a speedbus to prevent townie powerups or discussion seems like a very familiar strategy.
Vote KeyofDestiny
Actually, I was assuming that the reason for the lynch was a secret double-voter, and vezo. seems the person most likely to have had that ability. He claimed in the thread he had a "day" ability once he was powered up, and he's been revealed as Town "Demagogue" which suggests persuasive powers.
I don't know if this is the case or not (though if it's wrong someone knows). Question how this affects your analysis if it's correct?
Since I'm alive I suppose I'll be taking a look back at the AI wagon sometime this day.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Vezo being a secret double voter (one whose 2nd vote isn't made public on the vote counts) is a plausible explanation. The hidden vote might have come from ***. ("I like camping out on the outer hull!"... Yeah, some explanation might be nice there Wrath) I don't know if these might be true.
I do know that Key hadn't really participated in voting until the very end, and when he did, he tried to immediately unvote, like he knew AI would get lynched at that point and didn't want to be publicly caught as a double voter.
Well, it's possible that Key dropped that vote knowing it would result in a lynch (because of his own ability or some other ability he was aware of), but it just seems clunky for him to hammer and then "unvote" like that in some sort of effort to look like he wasn't trying to rush the lynch. It's both too sneaky and too blatant.
I don't know, maybe a re-read will inform.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
^I don't agree with everything but this is a good post nevertheless.
Someone (I can't remember who, I'm sorry, please don't hurt me) was wondering yesterday why Chris didn't suggest I read Basic #2 when he gave me a list of games to read for meta comparison. So I read that game during the night, to find out his play there was the exact same as it is here. There's no difference at all.
Vote: ChrisXIV
Can you describe the points of similarity? Did you compare to the other games he's played as town? What else is your case on him based on?
@Zind- You and DC are generic experienced players to me at this point - I don't have negative reads on either of you. Unlike Yawgmoth. Vote Axelrod.
Quote from Tilde »
Re: Toastboy and Key. You two apparently put the 3 votes needed to hammer AI yesterday, and did it before any late-day discussion regarding Connections could be made. AI was pretty well caught already, so a speedbus to prevent townie powerups or discussion seems like a very familiar strategy.
Vote KeyofDestiny
*shakes head* For all we know, the vote was a secret vote placed by a mystery player, by WoD, or by our dead demagogue. We don't even know if the ability was scum-controlled. Townies piling on extra votes but stopping short of the publicly visible threshold is hardly scummy behavior.
2) vezok is dead.:-/ Seems like the scum are afraid of a powered townie...
3) @WoD: Garaman or terran?
Obligatory "victory" dance followed by groundless speculation followed by easy content (discussing the elephant in the room...not to imply WoD is an elephant). This feels forced.
AXELROD
... 344: We were, and are, locked in a death struggle.
Serious?
Quote from zinda »
C'MANCER 78: Really strong townie vibes here (like every game I've ever played with Cantripmancer. Has he ever been scum?)
Yup, check my Cantrip Heaven (in sig): Balloon Debate Mafia was my evil debut and only scumgame. But in almost all my games, including that one, I am repeatedly identified as strongly townie...until I stick my foot in my mouth and blow my ear off with a shotgun, after which I have to work like crazy to regain that "obvTown" identification.
Quote from zinda »
185: I don't agree with the characterization of ZDS v. Az as a "crusade" and certainly not by ZDS. I'd say that Az has been steadily baiting him and he is rising to the bait, almost the reverse of the ZDS/AI interaction in Duel Monsters.
Fair enough. I just felt that ZDS's points against Az were unfounded and stemmed from miscommunication...much like his points against me were.
Quote from zinda »
TOASTBOY 451: Really late PBPA. That actually scares me more than a barn. AI was pretty much already cooked by the time TB began to attack him here.
I was bothered by this, what I saw as a "win more" strategy, but I dismissed it based on how his other posts read. I still see him as town.
I appreciate zinda's legwork here, although I realize it could just as easily be an ambitious scum move to preempt the day with directed suspicions, etc. But it feels town-motivated and I agree with most of what he posted.
However, I have to ask: Zinda, why exclude Gigas1 and tordeck from the list?
Quote from zinda »
In the meantime, I find a vote: Guardman to be the best course of action.
Re: Toastboy and Key. You two apparently put the 3 votes needed to hammer AI yesterday, and did it before any late-day discussion regarding Connections could be made. AI was pretty well caught already, so a speedbus to prevent townie powerups or discussion seems like a very familiar strategy.
Why assume that it was one of them? RobRoy made it pretty clear that there were "eleven" votes on AI at the end, which means that the "extra" vote likely was secretive (that is, wouldn't reflect in the votecount).
Actually, I was assuming that the reason for the lynch was a secret double-voter, and vezo. seems the person most likely to have had that ability. He claimed in the thread he had a "day" ability once he was powered up, and he's been revealed as Town "Demagogue" which suggests persuasive powers.
I accept the speculation as possible, but frown at it being labeled as probable. Why does this sound like an attempt to dismiss the extra vote phenomenon as "behind us" so that it can be used again later?
Quote from Axelrod »
Since I'm alive I suppose I'll be taking a look back at the AI wagon sometime this day.
Why make the bolded qualification? Did you expect otherwise?
Vezo being a secret double voter (one whose 2nd vote isn't made public on the vote counts) is a plausible explanation. The hidden vote might have come from ***. ("I like camping out on the outer hull!"... Yeah, some explanation might be nice there Wrath) I don't know if these might be true.
I find this explanation to be more likely, but would like WoD to weigh in. (And can we maybe search the ship to make sure we don't have other stowaways? /flavorWishfulThinking)
I accept the speculation as possible, but frown at it being labeled as probable.
Well, that's my working theory. Which, by definition means I think it's the most "probable." But I'm not certain this is what occurred. What I mainly thought was that ~Tilde's~ leap to say that Toastboy and/or Key were likely responsible was premature and not based on much.
Why make the bolded qualification? Did you expect otherwise?
(shrug)
I meant that I decided last Night I wasn't going to spend time analyzing the AI wagon until I knew that I was going to be alive to post the results. I've done that before (worked up big analysis posts and then turned up dead) and it's annoying. I didn't have reason to think I was a more likely target than any number of other people.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
My abilities have slightly changed again overnight, but still cannot make a connection myself yet. At this point I wonder if dC should break the connection and let someone else connect with me.
Actually, I was assuming that the reason for the lynch was a secret double-voter, and vezo. seems the person most likely to have had that ability. He claimed in the thread he had a "day" ability once he was powered up, and he's been revealed as Town "Demagogue" which suggests persuasive powers.
I doubt its vez, because of this post close to Key's hammer.
Hey guys. I'm working on an analysis post right now. Let me just lay down a couple of placeholder points.
-If you guys didn't lynch AI, I would have come into this game with a rant. Very much obvscum, though I must admit I was a bit hesitant when he claimed tracker, but yeah scum do often claim hard-to-prove roles like doc or tracker or watcher. Despite that, his wagon definitely deserves analysis.
-Are we were claiming our race openly? I don't remember seeing a soft claim being done. Am I just being fished?
-I was not in the game in any way, shape, or form until Day 2. So no sneaky votes came from my direction.
-I am totally in favour of scummy players burning their connection requests. It seems like a solid way to break the setup.
Here is my work, listed by player and now with links included, just for our beloved mod and because I don't want it to go unread like the one in Meadows did.
CYOUNI 47: Not necessarily true. It is overly simplistic to assume that connecting to a scum will have bad results. That'd be a little suspicious - if we are disclosing connections, as I hope we will be, and connecting to a scum has a noticeably bad effect, we'd be able to identify the scum relatively easily by comparing the symptoms of people who connect to them.
That sounds correct. So as long as connections are being disclosed, I have no objections.
I don't think I see Guardman as scummy, but the posts of his that people have identified as scummy, for the most part, flabbergast me and make me feel like I'm--yet again--missing something obvious.
That's after Zinda's first two points (this is post #185).
You also said this:
Barn. Seppel posted that like it was a slam dunk, but the more he flip-flops, the more he feels like he's flailing. I can't see any reason for him to flail, so the constant change-up is a ping on the ol' scumdar.
That's not supporting Seppel's (and subsequently Zinda's) analysis of the point.
So, pray tell, what exactly of Zinda's do you agree with?
Re: Toastboy and Key. You two apparently put the 3 votes needed to hammer AI yesterday, and did it before any late-day discussion regarding Connections could be made. AI was pretty well caught already, so a speedbus to prevent townie powerups or discussion seems like a very familiar strategy.
Vote KeyofDestiny
For the record, there was a role in Asphodel Meadows that did something similar - reduce the lynch threshold by 1 for the person he was voting. So this point is not necessarily correct.
-Are we were claiming our race openly? I don't remember seeing a soft claim being done. Am I just being fished?
Welcome to the game
In the second post Robroy gave us a list of the Terrans and said everyone else is a Garaman. But since you came in late somehow as not part of the starting characters I guess it would be up to if you wanted to state which race you are
Also Welcome Cyan.
Doing a re-read will be back with more content soon.
Here is my work, listed by player and now with links included, just for our beloved mod and because I don't want it to go unread like the one in Meadows did.
GUARDMAN 64: I really think this post is worse than his "backpedal" post. There are three levels of justification and this post is firmly in the "over-justification" category, the province of scum and noob townies. Guardman hardly qualifies as noob, so I tend to see this behavior as scummy. (The other two categories are "no justification" and "reasonable justification.") 139: I almost want to go back over Guardman's relations with Seppel in past games. This is pretty obvtown Seppel behavior to me. (p.s. This was the post that was driving me crazy that I made reference to in 404.) 418: Leaning town on AI? Not in this lifetime. 453: Equally bad post. Why try to portray one of the Mod's rules as a "lie"? Extremely stilted phrasing and considering vezok and Seppel are the two players he identifies as scum here, I think either Guardman is completely barking (pun definitely intended) up the wrong tree or he's uup to something. Seppel is totally right - it's evident that he is referring to his own ability as a "blatant" one and that really does nothing for me.
-I am totally in favour of scummy players burning their connection requests. It seems like a solid way to break the setup.
Because we went into N1 without burning requests, there is now the possibility that scum could be covertly connected to each other (simply sending a request does not kill a previous connection). This is bad, because we now have two suboptimal options in burning:
1) Burn the requests as normal.
2) Force the host to connect to and instantly disconnect from everyone.
Option 1 runs the risk of scum staying connected to each other. Option 2 runs the risk of powering up scum that just need an instant connection to get powered up and stay powered up (reference: E_P's ability).
1. Vezok was a day communicator. He could send me PM's, and have me respond to a degree. (It could be relevant, so i wont go into details right now).
2. Yes, I did want to be connected. Sue me.
*shrug* I thought i had a method to determine of AI was scum or town cause i wasnt sure. My gut sure hasnt been accurate lately. (AI / Joboman in anita)
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
Quick rundown for everyone else: I was scum in Basic #2. AI was town. He put me third on his scum-list and I overrreacted. My attack was crap, I was overextending, but I got him lynched in the end(with the help of a few others). So no, the play is different actually - because in Basic #2 I knew that AI was my enemy. If you say that we are scum-buddies here in Symbiote, you should look at my interactions with ced and Cantrip.
So you don't think it's strange that of all the players here the one who gets killed is vezok, who incidentally is one of the few powered ones?
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
The only thing Vezok said what that his host gets harmed. Maybe he takes the vote from the host and you guys had to kill him to get him back. I don't know. At NO POINT did Vezok say that he gains power from being a Symbiote.
Ad Newb #30: Look where my careless behavior got me. It got me NKed because I was pushed to L-2 and had to claim. Do you really think that I would continue like that?
Iirc I almost never post my reads unless asked for it...
Look, I'm sorry if my sarcasm offends you, but I'm sick and tired of getting attacked when I'm doing my best to lynch scum. And even if I do it doesn't help me in any way whatsoever, on the contrary.
Vote Guardman
Why did you just vote Guardman there? Hoping to gain townie points?
Well after the last exchange and previous posts I am going to. unvote. My feelings on seppel havnt changed but chris is glaring scum at this point and with out any support on my feelings from the rest of ya on it I think I will go with the wagon this time and I am going to vote chris.
blargh. Meant to do my big analysis post at work, but they were doing something with like a big new network firewall frontend or some BS, so internet has been down all day.
If I give an explination without back up I would be no batter than chris and his random list of coloured names. Be patient and I'll back up my statement when I'm not posting from a key board that I have to type on with my thumbs. As kewl as it is the droid dosent make for good pbpa
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Abilities? As in PLURAL? ABILITIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS???
Even if you were trying to make a point, it was stupid to "out" yourself as one of those abilities that are "blatantly town."
But with that aside, how would you know more than just your own? You wouldn't. What you said is an absolute unprovable lie unless you're power masons or something. The way you worded it isn't a way where you can just say "oh I was just talking about myself."
In other words, you are lying scum.
Wait a minute. I hope you've got something against Guardman better than this, because this is complete BS.
There's no way Guardman's flat-out lying here. He's not trying to pull a fast one, he clearly has something in mind that HE thinks is a blatantly town ability. Either he's mistaken what a "blatantly town" ability is, he has a blatantly town ability and just ran his mouth off, or he's trying to run some kind of an awful, improbable gambit. Which do you think is more likely?
Quote from Seppel »
First of all, don't answer for him.
Second of all, YES HE DAMN WELL DOES KNOW MORE THEN THE AVERAGE JOE:
And how is it that you're squaring this, with the above? He knows more than the average joe about having blatantly town abilities, but you still think he's scum??
Quote from seppel »
"I know AI is my scumbuddy, but I don't want to be responsible for not being on his wagon."
Pursue some obvtown people. Great idea, scum.
That's right, sow the seeds.
I'm now more convinced that Guardman is scum than AI.
Unvote, vote Guardman.
This crap is better and I'd include it in a case on Guardman if I were inclined to make one, but it's still within the spectrum of behavior I'd expect from him and the "blatantly town" slip is a pretty strong indicator that he has an ability he thinks is blatantly town. He could very well be wrong, and it's possible that a scum could think that they were handed a blatantly town ability by the mod, but it seem a hell of a lot more likely to come from a townie.
1)
Seppel: Makes good observations most of the time. Standard Seppel town playstyle, with less crazyness than usual, which is good.
zindabad: Low on the post count, but good posts that scream town to me.
Toastboy: Inquisitive as always, never backs down from things he is convinced of.
StormBlind: Solid town play.
Guardman: Leaning town on obvious scum(AI). That's my reason for the vote.
KeyofDestiny: Low posts, low(almost zero because of his "error") content, doesn't read the thread.
2) I don't think you making fun of me is appropriate if you hold my sarcasm against me.
So some of your reads are questionable.
Town-
Seppel: He's playing like he normally does as town, except different.
StormBlind: Because I say so.
Scum-
Guardman: Thought AI wasn't scum.
I'm going to need a more elaborate explanation for those players.
That comes off sounding a bit harsher than I meant it in my head, but still. What's going on with this attack? There's a lot of poor logic in there, some contradictory views of what is going on in his head (does he have special knowledge, or is it all just BS?), and it looks like you're warping and selectively citing the facts to press towards a predetermined conclusion of guilt. It looks like a smear job, not a case.
Guardman: "Thought AI wasn't scum" convinced me. The interaction with Seppel is also scummy. [/quote]
Before we got speedlynched into Night, I was about to write up a post saying how I didn't think we should lynch AI; I've never seen a Mafia Tracker, and it seems like a pretty confirmable role. I guess I'm scum in your eyes, too.
That being said, I wouldn't support a Guardman wagon. Thinking someone is town when they're not is not the strongest scumtell, as per that's the goal of the game for the scum. If nobody was confused as to alignments, the Mafia would be dead already. I like the pressure on Chris, and support that.
[quote]287: Lol, where'd he pop up from with this post? Zebi is another extreme lurker, at least so far, and that's not typical of his game as either scum or town. Worth a look.
I can honestly say I'm not 100% sure why I've been lurking more than normal. I know that I notice it, as I sure everyone else does. The most plausible explanation in my head is that since early day 1, it has become a TL;DR war. I don't do very well in comprehending TL;DR, and I don't write TL;DRs very well. This could be what's subconsciously making me want to post less. But I don't know.
Quote from Seppel »
Because we went into N1 without burning requests, there is now the possibility that scum could be covertly connected to each other (simply sending a request does not kill a previous connection). This is bad, because we now have two suboptimal options in burning:
1) Burn the requests as normal.
2) Force the host to connect to and instantly disconnect from everyone.
I think at this point, the scum who want to connect are probably connected. Between misguided townie connections, and Mafia connecting with each other, they're probably mostly powered up, which could lead to an ugly tomorrow night either way. There's no sense in burning our requests now, IMO.
Seppel: Plays like he normally does as town, except better.
StormBlind: Pretty much, yeah. I didn't see scummy behavior, and he didn't hide.
Guardman: "Thought AI wasn't scum" convinced me. The interaction with Seppel is also scummy.
Now, the question is: Why did you ask this of me? Your reasons for the vote against me have nothing to do with it.
So Seppel is playing differently than his normal town meta, and that means he's town?
Now Seppel is scummy?
I think your question towards my actions is pointless. I voted for you because you were acting like scum, and now as I delve deeper it's not looking any better.
Lolwut? What are you talking about? I already answered.
...
You voted for me, because you didn't like my first post on Day 2. No further explanation.
First: you are saying Seppel is town because he is acting the way he normally does, except that is also acting better than he normally does. The rule of thumb in meta analysis should be that you provide a clear similarity between the two play style examples without clouding the comparison with things like "but he's acting differently here". The entire argument falls apart when you start going "he's play like he normally does, except...", and is doubly so when you're proving someone was town.
Second: What further explanation is warranted? It's a post you made that was meant to come across as genuine, but comes across exactly as Cantrip called it.
1) He's not acting as crazy as before. Which, as I said before, is good. In no way does that change the fact, that he's still playing his town self. Slight changes don't make meta worthless.
2) But you did not say that.
1) I would point out that it entirely changes the fact that he's playing his town self, as I jut said. You noticed a distinct shift in play style and brushed it off as not mattering. I would also point out that you have clung to it and now defend it by minimizing the amount of change. It was a distinct enough difference for you to call it a difference in your own meta analysis. If you truly felt that it meant nothing you would simply omit it from your analysis, not highlight it.
2) Your point being?
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Two thoughts on more recent events.
about Guardman: I don't understand wats scummy about the post regarding town abilities. Isn't it safe to assume that the town has cop and doctor, which I take are the blatantly town abilities he's talking about.
about AI:
after reading toastboys pbpa, i wasn't completely confidant in AI being scum but this post reeks scum.
So you want a cop to investigate you, and then out himself to either clear you or declare you scum? nice try. vote AsianInvasion.
Also, I need to go through quickly one more time. But I will be accepting requests from specific players i feel are town. I'll try to post a list later tonight.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
toastboy snuck in a vote while i was writing my post and i don't think the towns done with the symbiote stuff
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
As for what sb said. As long as he's connected to me I don't care. If he breaks the connection then I'll to connect with ZDS.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I'm fine with Az, dC, or Seppel burning requests.
I thought this was cake. But it was a lie.
This is concerning to me.
I'd like to hear them.
Barn. Seppel posted that like it was a slam dunk, but the more he flip-flops, the more he feels like he's flailing. I can't see any reason for him to flail, so the constant change-up is a ping on the ol' scumdar.
Thanks for fixing that. No need to rush with unfinished business.
EWP: @Vezok...you realize that since you've connected to SB today, if he breaks it, you won't be able to reconnect with someone else until tomorrow, right?
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
AsianInvasion(11) - Niv, mmod, Cantripmancer, ChrisXIV, ZDS, ~Tilde~, Axelrod, vezokpiraka, StormBlind, Toastboy, KeyofDestiny
~Tilde~(1) - AsianInvasion
Seppel(1) - tordeck
tordeck(1) - E_P
desCoures(1) - zindabad
zindabad(1) - desCoures
Zebi(1) - Azrael
vezokpiraka(1) - Guardman
Guardman(1) - Seppel
Not voting:
Cyouni
Gigas1
Zebi
As of post 487, AsianInvasion has been lynched. (Yes, I know that that number says 11 but the posted lynch threshold was 12.) It is now twilight while I prepare a lynch scene.
They, in turn, were staring off into the middle distance at something not truly of this world. After a moment, they all relaxed in unison. AsianInvasion, they explained, had indeed been one of the conspirators, partly responsible for the death of Captain Masaryk and Elder Sammon. All was not yet well, but a step had been taken in the right direction. Bouyed, you headed off to sleep... and maybe, to dream of a brighter tomorrow.
AsianInvasion has been lynched. He was Alessandra de Medici, Terran Mafia Tracker.
It is now Night 1. Night actions are due in 72 hours, at noon Eastern on Monday, May 24th. If you have an optional night ability that you will not be using, please let me know this; that way I may be able to start the next day early.
When you are all assembled, though, you find that you are actually one body over quota. As you begin your discussions, Wrath_of_DoG enters the room, apparently having been hidden on the ship somehow. What other surprises will the day bring?
It is now Day 2. Wrath_of_DoG has been added to the living player list. With 21 players living it is 11 votes to lynch. The deadline for Day 2 is set for 3 pm Eastern on Thursday, June 10th.
Any Connections established on Day 1 will still be active unless the players involved were told otherwise. Any outstanding (unanswered) Connection requests from Day 1 have now lapsed.
You may begin posting.
I did this overnight, so after AI was revealed as scum.
AZ
11: I like it when games leave the random stage early. Az is off the mark here with some observations about the nature of connections. It could just be odd phrasing here, but "least-powered" and "most-powered" seem to me to refer to number of abilities rather than their relative strength. I think #2 is the most important part of his post and poses an interesting question - are we better off keeping scummy players connected ("leashing" them, you might say) and risking possible consequences for their partner, or leaving them isolated and risking they might connect in secret?
42: I agree with this post entirely. Every town plan runs the risk of handing information to the scum that they can then use against us. But as far as information goes, we're already losing. Think about it in football terms. If you're down 1-0 in the 80th minute, you need to attack. Sure, you could give up a second goal in the process and relinquish any chance at getting anything out of the game - but if you do not attack, you will certainly lose. And that's where we are here. We're already at a disadvantage in the information stakes. Putting nothing forward so that won't lose anything only solidifies that disadvantage.
164: Nonsense. Seppel is really easy to read. His strength is definitely in his town game and not in trying to pretend like he's playing his town game, and I didn't much care for the slur on ZDS that "if you feel otherwise, you're scum."
306: Didn't really care for this attack on Axelrod here.
443: Why me or dC? I thought the idea for burning off requests was to burn them on townie players. Neither myself nor dC has posted enough to solidify our town status.
AXELROD
17: This reminds me of DYH in Fleet Mafia. He had a good reason for it there - I might not have gone about it exactly as DYH did, but it was a good reason - and I wonder if something similar is at work here. To speculate idly, he might be a role with decent base powers but who weakens/loses them if he connects, possibly with some other tradeoff?
50: Now this really reminds me of DYH.
202: This reminds me of lurking scum. I didn't care for how he pops up to talk about Seppel here but doesn't give a solid opinion on him. If you think the people voting for Seppel are wrong, then by definition you must think he's town - but you stop short of saying it.
258: Nothing to say about anything else, but he wants to ask a fairly irrelevant question about the nature of bolmedias/vezok's connection.
301: This is a lot better from Axel but I'm not 100% convinced yet.
328: I agree that maybe ZDS let Tilde off the hook a little too easily, but I don't think this all adds up to "Tilde is scum." Axel has a fair point against Tilde and is pursuing it in a genuine manner. But vehement townies are known to slip up when they post and make scummy-looking mistakes such as that one (ask me, I know - anyone remember Inheritance Mafia? That huge attack on me that dC made? Most of it was genuine because I really had made a lot of mistakes and contradictions in my posts, but I was no less town because of it.)
344: We were, and are, locked in a death struggle.
AI
97: After a strange sideswipe at ZDS - he tried to say ZDS's statement that "most Garamans are town" (which is patently true) might be the result of inside information - he makes an even more ridiculous one here by saying it implied Terrans would be mostly scum. I could do the math, but AI was scum anyway and the reason I bring this up is to shed light on the nature of the interaction between ZDS and AI, which speaks well on the former's behalf.
223: And the fact that AI tries to deflect onto Tilde, who has just made a fairly ridiculous attack on Seppel, is a point in Tilde's favor.
405: I think the Chris attacks in this post are a last go at deflecting onto a weak target. He attempted Tilde earlier - which went marginally well - but he will fail with Chris this time. Really, I get no scum vibes at all from Chris.
468: This may be Zin's Fourth Rule of Mafia: people who offer to "prove" their abilities are likely to be scum, because townies should have nothing to prove. ESPECIALLY AI, AFTER HE ALREADY DID THE EXACT SAME THING IN LOTR II.
E_P
102: I agree with his logic here. Now that we know AI was scum, that's an even greater probability that the player who shunned two Terrans of unknown alignment who were requesting to be connected to in favor of a scum is, himself, scum. So that's another point against StormBlind.
177: This link between tordeck and KoD makes sense to me. But it's pretty rare to me that a noob scum defends a scumbuddy - the default behavior in that situation there would be to bus. So I don't see that as implicating the two of them together. tordeck being scum and KoD being town, I could see.
C'MANCER
28: Hearkening back to the Fleet Mafia comparison I drew earlier - I really am such an anecdotal learner - this reminds me of how the town, generally speaking, dealt with DYH there. So I can see this post stemming from a townie logical progression.
78: Really strong townie vibes here (like every game I've ever played with Cantripmancer. Has he ever been scum?)
185: I don't agree with the characterization of ZDS v. Az as a "crusade" and certainly not by ZDS. I'd say that Az has been steadily baiting him and he is rising to the bait, almost the reverse of the ZDS/AI interaction in Duel Monsters.
CHRIS
265: ZDS criticizes this post as "put[ting] them in tight spots" but I don't agree. The discrepancy that Chris notes is not some sort of slam dunk against vezok, but that's no reason why it shouldn't be pursued. Flip back to Axelrod's peripheral inquiry into vezok's connections - why doesn't this fall into the same category?
CYOUNI
47: Not necessarily true. It is overly simplistic to assume that connecting to a scum will have bad results. That'd be a little suspicious - if we are disclosing connections, as I hope we will be, and connecting to a scum has a noticeably bad effect, we'd be able to identify the scum relatively easily by comparing the symptoms of people who connect to them.
DESCOURES
426: Cyouni, Guardman, KoD and Chris are all easy targets. Now, this is an attribute of dC's that I've seen in his posts before. See SoT, where he attacked town Johm and TeknoLink and The Asphodel Meadows (TAM is just such a dumb acronym for that game...can we just call it Meadows?) where he went after an obvtown PoD while ignoring an equally obvscum AI (this is in his blog posts, btw, so some leniency can be given him on account of being dead.) What I'm saying here is that normally I would look askance on someone who singles out easy targets like the four players listed above, but I recognize this as part of dC's town meta.
GUARDMAN
64: I really think this post is worse than his "backpedal" post. There are three levels of justification and this post is firmly in the "over-justification" category, the province of scum and noob townies. Guardman hardly qualifies as noob, so I tend to see this behavior as scummy. (The other two categories are "no justification" and "reasonable justification.")
139: I almost want to go back over Guardman's relations with Seppel in past games. This is pretty obvtown Seppel behavior to me. (p.s. This was the post that was driving me crazy that I made reference to in 404.)
418: Leaning town on AI? Not in this lifetime.
453: Equally bad post. Why try to portray one of the Mod's rules as a "lie"? Extremely stilted phrasing and considering vezok and Seppel are the two players he identifies as scum here, I think either Guardman is completely barking (pun definitely intended) up the wrong tree or he's uup to something. Seppel is totally right - it's evident that he is referring to his own ability as a "blatant" one and that really does nothing for me.
KOD
135: I know he's getting here a little late to the party, but this is a bit of a fearmongering post by KoD.
MMOD
54: The first mention of burning connection requests is brought up here by MMoD - that speaks really well on his behalf.
236: Large gulfs between posts...check. I'm really liking MMoD as town based on past experiences. (me in SoT: "Should've known MMoD was scum...he only posts when he's scum.")
NIV
51: I don't really see how Guardman's reaction to Axel is that bad. It certainly is part of the subset of "believable townie reactions to someone who doesn't want to play ball." Ask me, I know.
SEPPEL
148: I'm not sure that his posts up to this point have been from a "let's power up because it might help the town" attitude either, so this criticism of KoD is a little bit hypocritical.
190: He's on the same page as ZDS as far as KoD's ridiculous fearmongering goes, though. I like the direction this is taking.
STORMBLIND
76: This is a mix of a good attitude (let's not get ensnared in quibbling over the setup) and a bad one (I'm not participating in any rules you set up.)
82: But there's something of a contradiction here. For someone who seems to be pledging himself to behavioral analysis, he seems unduly worried about the "3:1 ratio" of townie connections needed to balance out the potential scum connective power. Why should we worry? We're just going to catch them by their behavior...right?
TILDE
33: Tilde's logic is correct here. Look back to Amistarian, where not only did the mafia (naturally) coordinate better, but they made much better use of the burnout mechanic. I think it's a fair assumption that we will need to make the best of connections or we will pay the price.
37: But an odd post here. If Az comes up with a plan, why not discuss it? What meaning does the word "publicly" hold in this sentence?
214: This is the dark side of Seppel - his game engenders these feelings in other players. But I actually think Tilde acting unreasonably is a point in his favor. When I played with Tilde in Manga, he was incredibly well put-together, non-impulsive, controlled and classy. And he was scum. Seeing the polar opposite in this post should tell you something.
375: But then there was this. I realize Tilde distrusts Seppel, but as I already talked about, Seppel's response to RR's announcement was a pro-town one, and this was a sarcastic and dismissive take on it.
467: Outright wrong information. AI had the Standard Cop ability (ok, it was actually a variation thereof in which the variation was insignificant enough not to matter) in Meadows and was scum. Just wanted to point that out.
TOASTBOY
156: I like this post by TB. It has an honest and open feel that I admit I don't often get from TB's posts.
451: Really late PBPA. That actually scares me more than a barn. AI was pretty much already cooked by the time TB began to attack him here.
ZDS
71: This post shows a different side of ZDS to the one I am used to. I know ZDS as either scum, someone trying to control the town, or both. I'm inclined to provisionally place him in the town category, based on an interplay we had in Duel Monsters Mafia.
168: I don't see what being smug has to do with being scum, unless it's smugness of the dC/Shad sort after Inheritance was over, viz. the smugness of scum-victory.
172: He hits KoD on what I commented on earlier re: Key and AI's fearmongering over connecting to scum.
ZEBI
287: Lol, where'd he pop up from with this post? Zebi is another extreme lurker, at least so far, and that's not typical of his game as either scum or town. Worth a look.
Named players, feel free to respond at your leisure.
In the meantime, I find a vote: Guardman to be the best course of action.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Vote KeyofDestiny
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
Actually, I was assuming that the reason for the lynch was a secret double-voter, and vezo. seems the person most likely to have had that ability. He claimed in the thread he had a "day" ability once he was powered up, and he's been revealed as Town "Demagogue" which suggests persuasive powers.
I don't know if this is the case or not (though if it's wrong someone knows). Question how this affects your analysis if it's correct?
Since I'm alive I suppose I'll be taking a look back at the AI wagon sometime this day.
I do know that Key hadn't really participated in voting until the very end, and when he did, he tried to immediately unvote, like he knew AI would get lynched at that point and didn't want to be publicly caught as a double voter.
Note to self: Your mafia theories are usually wrong, so don't act on them.
I don't know, maybe a re-read will inform.
Can you describe the points of similarity? Did you compare to the other games he's played as town? What else is your case on him based on?
@Zind- You and DC are generic experienced players to me at this point - I don't have negative reads on either of you. Unlike Yawgmoth. Vote Axelrod.
*shakes head* For all we know, the vote was a secret vote placed by a mystery player, by WoD, or by our dead demagogue. We don't even know if the ability was scum-controlled. Townies piling on extra votes but stopping short of the publicly visible threshold is hardly scummy behavior.
This is not good reasoning.
Obligatory "victory" dance followed by groundless speculation followed by easy content (discussing the elephant in the room...not to imply WoD is an elephant). This feels forced.
Serious?
Yup, check my Cantrip Heaven (in sig): Balloon Debate Mafia was my evil debut and only scumgame. But in almost all my games, including that one, I am repeatedly identified as strongly townie...until I stick my foot in my mouth and blow my ear off with a shotgun, after which I have to work like crazy to regain that "obvTown" identification.
Fair enough. I just felt that ZDS's points against Az were unfounded and stemmed from miscommunication...much like his points against me were.
I was bothered by this, what I saw as a "win more" strategy, but I dismissed it based on how his other posts read. I still see him as town.
I appreciate zinda's legwork here, although I realize it could just as easily be an ambitious scum move to preempt the day with directed suspicions, etc. But it feels town-motivated and I agree with most of what he posted.
However, I have to ask: Zinda, why exclude Gigas1 and tordeck from the list?
I think this is appropriate. Vote: Guardman
Why assume that it was one of them? RobRoy made it pretty clear that there were "eleven" votes on AI at the end, which means that the "extra" vote likely was secretive (that is, wouldn't reflect in the votecount).
EWP:
I accept the speculation as possible, but frown at it being labeled as probable. Why does this sound like an attempt to dismiss the extra vote phenomenon as "behind us" so that it can be used again later?
Why make the bolded qualification? Did you expect otherwise?
I find this explanation to be more likely, but would like WoD to weigh in. (And can we maybe search the ship to make sure we don't have other stowaways? /flavorWishfulThinking)
Well, that's my working theory. Which, by definition means I think it's the most "probable." But I'm not certain this is what occurred. What I mainly thought was that ~Tilde's~ leap to say that Toastboy and/or Key were likely responsible was premature and not based on much.
I don't know why. Because that would be dumb.
(shrug)
I meant that I decided last Night I wasn't going to spend time analyzing the AI wagon until I knew that I was going to be alive to post the results. I've done that before (worked up big analysis posts and then turned up dead) and it's annoying. I didn't have reason to think I was a more likely target than any number of other people.
I don't see a real case on Guardman at this point either.
I bet WoD is the 17th garaman. Maybe? Haven't read the first post in a while.
More thoughts when I get to work.
Not a fan of this post - well, more like I don't like 1 or 2. vote Chris
I doubt its vez, because of this post close to Key's hammer.
-If you guys didn't lynch AI, I would have come into this game with a rant. Very much obvscum, though I must admit I was a bit hesitant when he claimed tracker, but yeah scum do often claim hard-to-prove roles like doc or tracker or watcher. Despite that, his wagon definitely deserves analysis.
-Are we were claiming our race openly? I don't remember seeing a soft claim being done. Am I just being fished?
-I was not in the game in any way, shape, or form until Day 2. So no sneaky votes came from my direction.
-I am totally in favour of scummy players burning their connection requests. It seems like a solid way to break the setup.
That sounds correct. So as long as connections are being disclosed, I have no objections.
Tentative town read on Zind.
Really. Really?
Voting Guardman is fine. But...you said:
That's after Zinda's first two points (this is post #185).
You also said this:
That's not supporting Seppel's (and subsequently Zinda's) analysis of the point.
So, pray tell, what exactly of Zinda's do you agree with?
For the record, there was a role in Asphodel Meadows that did something similar - reduce the lynch threshold by 1 for the person he was voting. So this point is not necessarily correct.
Welcome to the game
In the second post Robroy gave us a list of the Terrans and said everyone else is a Garaman. But since you came in late somehow as not part of the starting characters I guess it would be up to if you wanted to state which race you are
Also Welcome Cyan.
Doing a re-read will be back with more content soon.
The Family
This post is awesome.
Yes we can.
/barn
Actually, I want to /barn this entire post.
ESPECIALLY BARN THIS
vote Guardman
AI turning up scum means Guardman is like a 100% chance of being scum, if it wasn't obvious already.
Hi Cyan! When will you be done with me?
Chris is definitely looking like scum. I will have to see if AI+Guardman+Chris makes sense.
Because we went into N1 without burning requests, there is now the possibility that scum could be covertly connected to each other (simply sending a request does not kill a previous connection). This is bad, because we now have two suboptimal options in burning:
1) Burn the requests as normal.
2) Force the host to connect to and instantly disconnect from everyone.
Option 1 runs the risk of scum staying connected to each other. Option 2 runs the risk of powering up scum that just need an instant connection to get powered up and stay powered up (reference: E_P's ability).
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
1. Vezok was a day communicator. He could send me PM's, and have me respond to a degree. (It could be relevant, so i wont go into details right now).
2. Yes, I did want to be connected. Sue me.
*shrug* I thought i had a method to determine of AI was scum or town cause i wasnt sure. My gut sure hasnt been accurate lately. (AI / Joboman in anita)
No problems here. This is null.
YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.
The only thing Vezok said what that his host gets harmed. Maybe he takes the vote from the host and you guys had to kill him to get him back. I don't know. At NO POINT did Vezok say that he gains power from being a Symbiote.
Why did you just vote Guardman there? Hoping to gain townie points?
The Family
The Family
Hopefully I have better luck tomorrow.
TOWN
Zindabad
Toastboy
Seppel
E_P
SCUM
KeyofDestiny
Chris
Guardman
NULL
ZeDorkSlipeur
Tordeck
StormBlind
Azrael
Axelrod
NEEDS TO POST MORE
Zebi
Wrath
Niv
MMOD
desCoures
Cyouni
Cyan
Cantripmancer
The Family
That's probably the least of the scummy things he's done.
Guardman(4) - zindabad, Cantripmancer, Seppel, ChrisXIV
ChrisXIV(3) - ZDS, E_P, tordeck
KeyofDestiny(2) - ~Tilde~, Toastboy
Axelrod(1) - Azrael
Not voting:
Axelrod
Cyan
Cyouni
desCoures
Guardman
KeyofDestiny
mmod
Niv
StormBlind
Wrath_of_DoG
Zebi
With 21 players alive, it is 11 votes to lynch. Please let me know if you believe I have made an error.
The deadline for the day is at 3 pm Eastern on Thursday, June 10th.
I'm not, actually.
Wait, what? What am I missing here? *read read read*
Wait a minute. I hope you've got something against Guardman better than this, because this is complete BS.
There's no way Guardman's flat-out lying here. He's not trying to pull a fast one, he clearly has something in mind that HE thinks is a blatantly town ability. Either he's mistaken what a "blatantly town" ability is, he has a blatantly town ability and just ran his mouth off, or he's trying to run some kind of an awful, improbable gambit. Which do you think is more likely?
And how is it that you're squaring this, with the above? He knows more than the average joe about having blatantly town abilities, but you still think he's scum??
This crap is better and I'd include it in a case on Guardman if I were inclined to make one, but it's still within the spectrum of behavior I'd expect from him and the "blatantly town" slip is a pretty strong indicator that he has an ability he thinks is blatantly town. He could very well be wrong, and it's possible that a scum could think that they were handed a blatantly town ability by the mod, but it seem a hell of a lot more likely to come from a townie.
Tell me why I shouldn't vote you for this crap.
So some of your reads are questionable.
Town-
Seppel: He's playing like he normally does as town, except different.
StormBlind: Because I say so.
Scum-
Guardman: Thought AI wasn't scum.
I'm going to need a more elaborate explanation for those players.
That comes off sounding a bit harsher than I meant it in my head, but still. What's going on with this attack? There's a lot of poor logic in there, some contradictory views of what is going on in his head (does he have special knowledge, or is it all just BS?), and it looks like you're warping and selectively citing the facts to press towards a predetermined conclusion of guilt. It looks like a smear job, not a case.
I can honestly say I'm not 100% sure why I've been lurking more than normal. I know that I notice it, as I sure everyone else does. The most plausible explanation in my head is that since early day 1, it has become a TL;DR war. I don't do very well in comprehending TL;DR, and I don't write TL;DRs very well. This could be what's subconsciously making me want to post less. But I don't know.
I think at this point, the scum who want to connect are probably connected. Between misguided townie connections, and Mafia connecting with each other, they're probably mostly powered up, which could lead to an ugly tomorrow night either way. There's no sense in burning our requests now, IMO.
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Apologies. Post 542 has been edited to show a correct votecount.
The Family
Now Seppel is scummy?
I think your question towards my actions is pointless. I voted for you because you were acting like scum, and now as I delve deeper it's not looking any better.
First: you are saying Seppel is town because he is acting the way he normally does, except that is also acting better than he normally does. The rule of thumb in meta analysis should be that you provide a clear similarity between the two play style examples without clouding the comparison with things like "but he's acting differently here". The entire argument falls apart when you start going "he's play like he normally does, except...", and is doubly so when you're proving someone was town.
Second: What further explanation is warranted? It's a post you made that was meant to come across as genuine, but comes across exactly as Cantrip called it.
2) Your point being?