In order of how convinced I am of the players being scum:
1. Dracofaust: He has been lurking all game, not posting his own ideas, and claimed a minor character as vanilla which he later upgraded to doctor, with a poor justification.
2. kpaca: He has not been helping the town advance more often than otherwise; holds others/himself to double standards; is careful to do the opposite of wagoning while undermining almost everyone, ensuring he can later point to these examples to serve whatever purpose he needs; creates doubt about himself so that he is prepared to refute those doubts, trying to prove how he is obv. town; to name a few.
3. Cantripmancer: He and kpaca have been playing off each other since the beginning of the game. If kpaca is not scum, I doubt that Cantripmancer is.
Interesting theory. Care to make a case out of it?
O.o
...
Why am I on your scum list?
Dude you voted yourself out of the blue like you're having some sort of psychosis spasm and then you want explanations from the rest of the town for their reactions? We would like to know what's up with you.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I mean it's like you shouted something crazy, ran out of the building after lighting yourself on fire, then calmly walked back in nicely dressed and freshly groomed wondering why everyone is confused and talking about you.
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A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I would love to hear you explain the self vote you ignored.
Anyway, tl;dr version of the case, more detail mayber later.
Kpaca and I have been intensely antagonistic since I've arrived. Between the one shot dragon vig claim and my interactions with kpaca, I find it really, really hard to justify that we are both mafia. It is an absurd thing to suggest.
To give also a list of three people based off of post count is a cop out of providing real opinions. It's also completely invalid.
And there's almost positively a doctor in this game, but that's sort of another tangent altogether.
Interesting theory. Care to make a case out of it?
Yeah, I did already. You seem to have way overreacted to me possibly killing you.
O.o
That's actually quite funny, "makes me period." I meant paranoid.
1. Dracofaust: He has been lurking all game, not posting his own ideas, and claimed a minor character as vanilla which he later upgraded to doctor, with a poor justification.
Put that way, why isn't everyone voting Draco?
Quote from Archae »
2. kpaca: He has not been helping the town advance more often than otherwise; holds others/himself to double standards; is careful to do the opposite of wagoning while undermining almost everyone, ensuring he can later point to these examples to serve whatever purpose he needs; creates doubt about himself so that he is prepared to refute those doubts, trying to prove how he is obv. town; to name a few.
Yeah, playing with kpaca is always, at minimum, an adventure.
Quote from Archae »
3. Cantripmancer: He and kpaca have been playing off each other since the beginning of the game. If kpaca is not scum, I doubt that Cantripmancer is.
So I'm scum because I've interacted with a player you suspect is scum? I hope that you don't conclude the inverse as true (if I am not scum, that kpaca likely is not as well). He may be town, but he quite likely may not be.
Dude you voted yourself out of the blue like you're having some sort of psychosis spasm and then you want explanations from the rest of the town for their reactions? We would like to know what's up with you.
Yeah, I did already. You seem to have way overreacted to me possibly killing you.
*Puts on Freud beard and horrible accent* "Vot is dis? You haff a sycological theory? I'm all eers." Pretend I'm someone else, like, maybe MandersHex (picking on her because she's relatively new and cause I know she won't mind). Convince me that a player who's been through 7 games of mafia (ok, officially it's 11, but several don't really count) would see you waving your unconfirmed dragon's breath around and think holy crap!!! I'd better lie down and die right here and now!!!
And if you can't, tell me why I'm voting for myself.
*Puts on Freud beard and horrible accent* "Vot is dis? You haff a sycological theory? I'm all eers." Pretend I'm someone else, like, maybe MandersHex (picking on her because she's relatively new and cause I know she won't mind). Convince me that a player who's been through 7 games of mafia (ok, officially it's 11, but several don't really count) would see you waving your unconfirmed dragon's breath around and think holy crap!!! I'd better lie down and die right here and now!!!
And if you can't, tell me why I'm voting for myself.
I have a funner question for you: what possible explanation could there be for pro town cantrip to do this?
Checking in again, just reread the past few pages. Here are thoughts.
-I, as with Cantripmancer, have been fairly burnt out, but don't expect the kind of display Cantrip gives. I dunno if he's actually making a Kpaca move or is really burnt out, but I can tell you that it's scummy. And if Dracofaust wasn't already the best choice, I would push for his lynch. Which I will be doing tomorrow.
-What? Deadline in 3 days? Yeah, kill Dracofaust plz. I agree with Zajnet's logic on this one, even though it may be a little flawed. The a real doc should not CC, we stand at an advantage as it is. It seems much more likely that he's scum falseclaiming to drag the Doc out, in which case nobody says anything and we slit his throat. I hate doc claims, especially the claimer has to go back and say "Oh yeah, I'm not what I said I was, I'm doc hurr hurr".
-This thread is long. Really long. And the mass posting as of late has given me a headache. I love you PKachu, but I think you are slowly killing me by drilling from the center of my brain outward.
As for other suspects, Kpaca is rising on my scumlist again, mostly on gut. Also not liking LRD, but I'm beginning to believe that I just think that because there was a huge propaganda campaign against him.
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I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here.
If you are, what was wrong in my assessment?
If you're not being sarcastic, why aren't you voting for Dracofaust?
So I'm scum because I've interacted with a player you suspect is scum? I hope that you don't conclude the inverse as true (if I am not scum, that kpaca likely is not as well). He may be town, but he quite likely may not be.
I did not make the reverse implication, so I do not necessarily believe it. Also, it is more than the fact that you have been interacting with kpaca - most of us have interacted with everyone. It is that you two are playing off each other, while being careful to make it look like you two are attacking/being suspicious of each other.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here.
If you are, what was wrong in my assessment?
If you're not being sarcastic, why aren't you voting for Dracofaust?
I was being both sarcastic and completely serious.
I think kpaca should state why he's voting for me.
I think the rest of the players in this game should post.
I was being both sarcastic and completely serious.
I think kpaca should state why he's voting for me.
I think the rest of the players in this game should post.
I think this post is really scummy.
I think you should know better about Kpaca by now.
I think you should not ask for lurkers to play as a distraction tactic.
I think Unvote, Vote cantripmancer
I think it would be incredibly enlightening for Kpaca to help me out with that doc logic he was talking about. Seriously, I thought my logic was pretty spot on there. What's an experienced players thought process on the situation?
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Well there you go cantrip, your flippant move has now got you to L-1, so I guess claim now. If not, deadline is at 6 tomorrow so I guess someone be ready to hammer if necessary.
If you are scum, thanks I guess. If you are town, shame on you.
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Hey kpaca, mind informing me when you get a chance?
My bad.
It was a terrible vote because you rationalized to much in your post how you were avoiding voting him because he was the doc (smart!), BUT then you jump on the wagon despite your logic telling you otherwise (seems iffy you'd do that). Why I suppose your uncertainty is certainly fitting in your first game, I had you pegged as someone who would convince themselves of something logically and stick to it, hence me being weary of your vote. I'm not considering making you a suspect, but if nothing else it's good i noted that to myself should I change my mind on you later.
And sometimes a lynch is better than a no lynch (most times), so though I think of Seppel as town I'd rather lynch him than a number of players if you backed me into a corner.
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It was a terrible vote because you rationalized to much in your post how you were avoiding voting him because he was the doc (smart!), BUT then you jump on the wagon despite your logic telling you otherwise (seems iffy you'd do that). Why I suppose your uncertainty is certainly fitting in your first game, I had you pegged as someone who would convince themselves of something logically and stick to it, hence me being weary of your vote. I'm not considering making you a suspect, but if nothing else it's good i noted that to myself should I change my mind on you later.
And sometimes a lynch is better than a no lynch (most times), so though I think of Seppel as town I'd rather lynch him than a number of players if you backed me into a corner.
No worries. You are mostly right in your assessment of me - I value logic, even when it goes against my gut. Case in point: OneMoreTime. I thought his playing was very suspect, but his uncountered claim logically made him pro-town. I unvoted Dracofaust quickly and without due logic (I just completely failed to consider that Dracofaust would false-claim doctor to draw out a power role), which is why I made the correction after feeling pretty dumb for missing such an obvious tactic.
Which brings me to Synrez:
I'm back and would like to know what the whole vote myself and then not answer why freakout thing was about. Sooooooooo Cantripomancer?
Also I think it's a really bad idea to lynch or vig draco. because if someone CAN CC it and they don't that would be very stupid as a town for a scum is a very generous trade even if it is the doctor.
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After what seems like an eternity (or more accurately- two months) spent bickering in the swamp, the inhabitants are restless.
"Let's kill Dracofaust!" someone shouts. Another voice calls for the death of Seppel. The inhabitants are sure that someone must die, but it seems that no one can determine who it must be.
Fed up with all this arguing and the noise it's causing, Cantripmancer rises from bed determined to bring an end to this nonsense. Putting a noose around his neck he shouts "LOOK HOW PRETTY I LOOK IN THIS NOOSE GUYS!" and subsequently falls back asleep.
Looking up from their arguments, the rest of the inhabitants look at Cantripmancer with interest. "I wonder why he's doing that," someone says. "He must be an evil person!" another replies. Eagerly the inhabitants rush towards Cantripmancer and string him up, for only an evil person would ever put a noose around his own neck, right?
After the deed is done, the inhabitants look closer and examine the body, only to discover that Cantripmancer was Sleeping Beauty, Vanilla Town.
Too tired to deal with this mess now, everyone heads back home to get some sleep of their own, determined that this mess will be resolved tomorrow.
It is now Night 1. No more posting. Night 1 will end in around 72 hours. Please send any actions that you wish to use tonight to me before then. Updated player list can be found on the first page.
After a disheartening day, the night seems to have gone a little better.
The swamp inhabitants look around themselves and notice that two of them are missing.
Heading to kpaca's house, the bloody corpse of Cyclops, Vanilla Town is found. Saddened, the swamp inhabitants move onwards to the house of Zajnet. Discovering the remains of Snow White, Mafia Goon, everyone's mood instantly improves.
Question to the town: Why do you think I vigged Zajnet?
Also today the real doctor should counterclaim if Draco is not the doctor, that puts us way ahead. Otherwise we confirm Draco as doctor and don't waste a lynch.
I can answer that if you want PK. I'm definitely pleased with the Zaj vig, nice work. As far as Kpaca goes...I really respect him as a player, but the way he was playing things I kept swinging back and forth on him. I suspect he might have been doing that to make himself less likely to be the nightkill now that I know he's town.
The new info should definitely help us paint a clearer picture today. I need to do more rereading now. wheee.
P.S. I was pretty upset when I got back from origins to see the night phase going and Cantrip dead. Cantrip definitely self destructed though.
Because he said re-read -skimmed over cantrip and is comfortable with a cantrip lynch whn cantrip was only scummy at the end? Like it seemed like he was just saying oh yeah he's scummy I read that too! No real justification. Am I close?
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Because he said re-read -skimmed over cantrip and is comfortable with a cantrip lynch whn cantrip was only scummy at the end? Like it seemed like he was just saying oh yeah he's scummy I read that too! No real justification. Am I close?
Errr.
Not really.
I guess I'm asking for your opinion about what you found about the hammer to be questionable, if anything.
He jumped on wagons without providing good reasons. He didn't do a good job of answering Seppel's question about why his vote was bad, in fact I think he might have ignored that request completely. He hammered someone who we know to be town. And let us not forget that he replaced for Gigas1 who was assumed to have been at least slightly scummy.
Plus since he turned up scum I went back and reread him. It makes it unlikely seppel is scum imo. Seppel wouldn't have pressured him that hard if he was his scum buddy I don't think. It also makes it highly likely that TACKY is scum given that the two of them didn't really interact and Zaj doesn't really mention him at all. Zaj also lists TACKY as leaning town in his replace post.
I think that about covers my thoughts on the Zaj matter for now.
Question to the town: Why do you think I vigged Zajnet?
Also today the real doctor should counterclaim if Draco is not the doctor, that puts us way ahead. Otherwise we confirm Draco as doctor and don't waste a lynch.
I'm gonna say his jumpy voting style, no previous beef with Cantrip until the hammer and hammering to avoid a NL. Oh and lurking. That's a guess though, Zajnet was low on my suspect list.
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"goddamn it I knew that might happen noooooes vote: me QQ"
seriously what why does pro town do that
That's so blatant it makes me period.
Why was my vote terrible?
Also, why would you want to lynch someone whom you do not believe to be scum?
Dracofaust:
Imagine you have no idea what your role is. Does the muffin man with ogre-earwig muffins and town-protecting dough make sense flavor-wise?
ProphetKing:
My scum list is consists of Dracofaust, kpaca, and Cantripmancer.
If you have questions, let me know.
I would like to hear the case.
Interesting theory. Care to make a case out of it?
O.o
...
Why am I on your scum list?
1. Dracofaust: He has been lurking all game, not posting his own ideas, and claimed a minor character as vanilla which he later upgraded to doctor, with a poor justification.
2. kpaca: He has not been helping the town advance more often than otherwise; holds others/himself to double standards; is careful to do the opposite of wagoning while undermining almost everyone, ensuring he can later point to these examples to serve whatever purpose he needs; creates doubt about himself so that he is prepared to refute those doubts, trying to prove how he is obv. town; to name a few.
3. Cantripmancer: He and kpaca have been playing off each other since the beginning of the game. If kpaca is not scum, I doubt that Cantripmancer is.
Dude you voted yourself out of the blue like you're having some sort of psychosis spasm and then you want explanations from the rest of the town for their reactions? We would like to know what's up with you.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Explain now cantripmancer.
Anyway, tl;dr version of the case, more detail mayber later.
Kpaca and I have been intensely antagonistic since I've arrived. Between the one shot dragon vig claim and my interactions with kpaca, I find it really, really hard to justify that we are both mafia. It is an absurd thing to suggest.
To give also a list of three people based off of post count is a cop out of providing real opinions. It's also completely invalid.
And there's almost positively a doctor in this game, but that's sort of another tangent altogether.
Yeah, I did already. You seem to have way overreacted to me possibly killing you.
That's actually quite funny, "makes me period." I meant paranoid.
Put that way, why isn't everyone voting Draco?
Yeah, playing with kpaca is always, at minimum, an adventure.
So I'm scum because I've interacted with a player you suspect is scum? I hope that you don't conclude the inverse as true (if I am not scum, that kpaca likely is not as well). He may be town, but he quite likely may not be.
I voted myself?
------------
...
*Puts on Freud beard and horrible accent* "Vot is dis? You haff a sycological theory? I'm all eers." Pretend I'm someone else, like, maybe MandersHex (picking on her because she's relatively new and cause I know she won't mind). Convince me that a player who's been through 7 games of mafia (ok, officially it's 11, but several don't really count) would see you waving your unconfirmed dragon's breath around and think holy crap!!! I'd better lie down and die right here and now!!!
And if you can't, tell me why I'm voting for myself.
Please stop.
-I, as with Cantripmancer, have been fairly burnt out, but don't expect the kind of display Cantrip gives. I dunno if he's actually making a Kpaca move or is really burnt out, but I can tell you that it's scummy. And if Dracofaust wasn't already the best choice, I would push for his lynch. Which I will be doing tomorrow.
-What? Deadline in 3 days? Yeah, kill Dracofaust plz. I agree with Zajnet's logic on this one, even though it may be a little flawed. The a real doc should not CC, we stand at an advantage as it is. It seems much more likely that he's scum falseclaiming to drag the Doc out, in which case nobody says anything and we slit his throat. I hate doc claims, especially the claimer has to go back and say "Oh yeah, I'm not what I said I was, I'm doc hurr hurr".
-This thread is long. Really long. And the mass posting as of late has given me a headache. I love you PKachu, but I think you are slowly killing me by drilling from the center of my brain outward.
As for other suspects, Kpaca is rising on my scumlist again, mostly on gut. Also not liking LRD, but I'm beginning to believe that I just think that because there was a huge propaganda campaign against him.
unvote: Vote Cantripmancer.
I suggest everyone do the same. We have 3 days until a deadline and this sort of business is ridiculous.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here.
If you are, what was wrong in my assessment?
If you're not being sarcastic, why aren't you voting for Dracofaust?
I did not make the reverse implication, so I do not necessarily believe it. Also, it is more than the fact that you have been interacting with kpaca - most of us have interacted with everyone. It is that you two are playing off each other, while being careful to make it look like you two are attacking/being suspicious of each other.
kpaca:
I was being both sarcastic and completely serious.
I think kpaca should state why he's voting for me.
I think the rest of the players in this game should post.
unvote, vote:Cantripmancer
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
I think this post is really scummy.
I think you should know better about Kpaca by now.
I think you should not ask for lurkers to play as a distraction tactic.
I think Unvote, Vote cantripmancer
I think it would be incredibly enlightening for Kpaca to help me out with that doc logic he was talking about. Seriously, I thought my logic was pretty spot on there. What's an experienced players thought process on the situation?
Cantripmancer (6) - Cantripmancer, ProphetKing, kpaca, indomitablebug, lrd, TACKY
Dracofaust (2) -Zajnet, Archae
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Corrections are welcome.
Reminder: Deadline is Monday, 6:00 pm est. If a lynch has not been reached by then, the day will end with a no-lynch.
(*Apparently the record is actually 1117)
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
If you are scum, thanks I guess. If you are town, shame on you.
My bad.
It was a terrible vote because you rationalized to much in your post how you were avoiding voting him because he was the doc (smart!), BUT then you jump on the wagon despite your logic telling you otherwise (seems iffy you'd do that). Why I suppose your uncertainty is certainly fitting in your first game, I had you pegged as someone who would convince themselves of something logically and stick to it, hence me being weary of your vote. I'm not considering making you a suspect, but if nothing else it's good i noted that to myself should I change my mind on you later.
And sometimes a lynch is better than a no lynch (most times), so though I think of Seppel as town I'd rather lynch him than a number of players if you backed me into a corner.
No worries. You are mostly right in your assessment of me - I value logic, even when it goes against my gut. Case in point: OneMoreTime. I thought his playing was very suspect, but his uncountered claim logically made him pro-town. I unvoted Dracofaust quickly and without due logic (I just completely failed to consider that Dracofaust would false-claim doctor to draw out a power role), which is why I made the correction after feeling pretty dumb for missing such an obvious tactic.
Which brings me to Synrez:
I should down as voting Dracofaust.
Dracofaust:
If you do come back on before the deadline, please respond:
Seppel:
When you're back, want to inform me why you brought attention to something you claimed to not want to bring attention to?
It is 23 hours 49 minutes from lrd's post or something different?
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Also I think it's a really bad idea to lynch or vig draco. because if someone CAN CC it and they don't that would be very stupid as a town for a scum is a very generous trade even if it is the doctor.
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Thanks. Fixed.
That's correct.
Deadline is 20 hours from this post. If a lynch has not yet been reached by that time, the day will end with a no-lynch.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Vote: Cantrip
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Vote: Cantripmancer
EDH:
:symb::symb: Marrow-Gnawer :symb::symb: - :symw::symu: Grand Arbiter Augustin IV :symw::symu: - :symb::symb: Toshiro Umezawa :symb::symb: - :symg::symg: Sachi, Daughter of Seshiro :symg::symg:
MafiaScum Wiki Page
Twilight.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
A card game about Presidents. Stabbing each other. With knives.
Cantripmancer (7) - Cantripmancer, ProphetKing, kpaca, indomitablebug, TACKY, BlueGhost4, Zajnet
Dracofaust (1) -Archae
With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
_____________
After what seems like an eternity (or more accurately- two months) spent bickering in the swamp, the inhabitants are restless.
"Let's kill Dracofaust!" someone shouts. Another voice calls for the death of Seppel. The inhabitants are sure that someone must die, but it seems that no one can determine who it must be.
Fed up with all this arguing and the noise it's causing, Cantripmancer rises from bed determined to bring an end to this nonsense. Putting a noose around his neck he shouts "LOOK HOW PRETTY I LOOK IN THIS NOOSE GUYS!" and subsequently falls back asleep.
Looking up from their arguments, the rest of the inhabitants look at Cantripmancer with interest. "I wonder why he's doing that," someone says. "He must be an evil person!" another replies. Eagerly the inhabitants rush towards Cantripmancer and string him up, for only an evil person would ever put a noose around his own neck, right?
After the deed is done, the inhabitants look closer and examine the body, only to discover that Cantripmancer was Sleeping Beauty, Vanilla Town.
Too tired to deal with this mess now, everyone heads back home to get some sleep of their own, determined that this mess will be resolved tomorrow.
It is now Night 1. No more posting. Night 1 will end in around 72 hours. Please send any actions that you wish to use tonight to me before then. Updated player list can be found on the first page.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
God help you if he's town.
The swamp inhabitants look around themselves and notice that two of them are missing.
Heading to kpaca's house, the bloody corpse of Cyclops, Vanilla Town is found. Saddened, the swamp inhabitants move onwards to the house of Zajnet. Discovering the remains of Snow White, Mafia Goon, everyone's mood instantly improves.
It is now Day 2.
With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
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Also today the real doctor should counterclaim if Draco is not the doctor, that puts us way ahead. Otherwise we confirm Draco as doctor and don't waste a lynch.
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The new info should definitely help us paint a clearer picture today. I need to do more rereading now. wheee.
P.S. I was pretty upset when I got back from origins to see the night phase going and Cantrip dead. Cantrip definitely self destructed though.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
@Blue Ghost: Specifically, what is bad about hammering there?
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Not really.
I guess I'm asking for your opinion about what you found about the hammer to be questionable, if anything.
Plus since he turned up scum I went back and reread him. It makes it unlikely seppel is scum imo. Seppel wouldn't have pressured him that hard if he was his scum buddy I don't think. It also makes it highly likely that TACKY is scum given that the two of them didn't really interact and Zaj doesn't really mention him at all. Zaj also lists TACKY as leaning town in his replace post.
I think that about covers my thoughts on the Zaj matter for now.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
I'm gonna say his jumpy voting style, no previous beef with Cantrip until the hammer and hammering to avoid a NL. Oh and lurking. That's a guess though, Zajnet was low on my suspect list.
We can lynch Lrd or Tacky next. It's up to you guys.
Vote Lrd. Tacky implodes easier.
Haha...wait. I implode? I wasn't aware that I implode. Have you been reading games of mine? Where do I implode?
Oh btw, I'd like to hear why I'm a good lynch today. From everybody. Now. Please. Thanks.