MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I've taken to calling that "The Cyan pre-emptive OMGUS technique" where he sees a player that is beginning to be suspicious of him, without yet being confident enough to vote, and votes them first, then later on when they accuse him of OMGUS and vote him, he uses that as an excuse to vote for them, claiming that THEY omgus-voted HIM.
Super hypocritical, and the same **** he tried to pull on me in Amistarian.
I was only 1-shot, and I'm sorry I used it so recklessly, yet I'm happy that Cyan is gone, and I figure that hey, it'll probably save us some mislynches.
Sorry again.
(not *really* sorry)
Wtf. Cyan's one of the better analysts in this game, douchebag or not. This is petty and personally I feel like you should be lynched, though no one else does. Stupid, petty **** like this deserves to have consequences.
Personally I think keeperofzion is newb. Ignoring currently.
SK's play doesn't seem bad to me, maybe because I somewhat sympathize with wanting WoD to hang. His backing off later is the only real thing I have issue with.
I see where SK is coming from complaining about WoD. It is counter intuitive to waste such an ability on someone who had little chance on being scum (or the same chance as any of you, all other things being equal). As I posted previously the same situation came up in Tales of the Fantastic. In that thread, Cyan's action wasn't even blinked at. I wondered why then and I wondered why now.
To me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but WoD I think was making sure he got off his ability. If he dies night 1 and then we as town lose that abilitiy. Yes it was reckless, yes it was less than best, but he did it and as Kpaca said Lynching him for bad play is not good.
Don't like this post. Paragraph one seems fake, especially the part at the end. Second paragraph is very ick. Trying to sound townie by supporting the "WoD is town, don't lynch for bad play" while having an "original reason" to pad it (and the reason is pretty bad and tries to explain someone elses actions).
I have no idea what people's (I think I counted around 5, so I'll address it) beef with my one post is. I felt weird reading Chris's posts. Not sure how that falls under craplogic, but w.e floats your boat. I said what I felt and kept my vote there since I didn't have much of a place to put it. I defended a bandwagonning accusation because why would I not defend myself when someone calls me scummy and there's a simple answer why it's not scummy. I reread him, still feel weird about his posts, but I find other people more scummy than that feeling now:
I find it highly suspicious how Bilbroxain voted me for defending a bandwagonning accusation and kept mentioning me even though really, there's no case on me (Seppel and others would argue otherwise, but w.e) and all he has is hot air, later adding a quip about keeperofzion (oppurtunistic) and now SK (with a comment I personally don't agree with).
I don't find SK that bad. His original posts i can agree with; the backing off later seemed worse, but I don't find it lynchworthy.
WoD town. Kill does seem petty. Wish he didn't claim 1-shot though to keep scum on their toes.
I would have had the same reaction as SK about the whole "if he's not scum, we're lynching you." so that's not a good tell.
The other thing that bugs me is infinis' post about WoD using the ability to get it off before he's potentially killed, but it seems like a scummy post in my mind right now. Just way off.
Anyway, i just read through quickly adn will reread better on Tuesday when i get home earlier.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
KeyofDestiny, Animated God of Barning of The Æesir.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Frankly, WOD is town. I personally wouldn't mind seeing some probation for this or something.
What, you mean like when Cyan daykilled Loran in like the 4th post of one game?
Or when he accused me of blatantly cheating at the end of Amistarian, with no evidence whatsoever?
Despite all that, he got Mafia Player of the Year.
Vote Wrath_of_DoG for Mafia Player of the Year 2009, people!!!1!
On a more serious note, the main reason I daykilled Cyan was because of his old pattern of pre-emptive OMGUS.
He's done this before as both town and mafia, and it almost always generates negativity and distraction. Just once, I actually had the power to cut it off before it happened.
As a general rule, as Town or Mafia, Cyan tends to lead the town to at least two, sometimes more than two mislynches, before the rest of the Town realize that he just arbitrarily picks targets and yells at them for the rest of the game.
Okay, I reread the SK business. I still don't agree with the wagon, but I understand the reasons behind it.
MMoD's recent post bothers me. WoD is town and it seems MMoD trying to subtly hint at lynching him for the pettiness of the daykill. I'm against lynching someone with strong townie vibes, regardless how bad they play.
Furthermore, MMoD goes on to poke at Infinis' post. I can agree with MMoD's analysis of the second paragraph, but 'calling fake' on the first one doesn't make sense to me. What bothers you about the first paragraph, exactly?
Finally, MMoD uses the Chris bandwagon to segue into voting for Bil. The vote looks like a preemptive OMGUS and I get a bad vibe from it.
@Everybody on SK: Have you guys not learned? This is classic SK. Attack the wrong guy, dont admit you are wrong, and next he will have some claim that is true yet unbelievable. He is town no matter how many times he falls into the "defeatest" scum tell. Not everybody plays mafia the same way, and what he is doing is what he thinks is right, even if it doesnt follow conventional wisdom. And before you bash it completely, lets look at a another person who diddnt follow conventional wisdom: Chamber. Anybody remember him even? I mean he was completely hated yet he was a great scum hunter. I am not saying WoD is scum in any shape or form for I believe he isnt. All I am saying is that SK may yet come up with something. Especially those who all piled onto that wagon.
@WoD and vigging: Are you guys really trying to convince people that a ton of vigging is killing those who annoy you and look scummy? Sure WoD had a reason to kill him, but its not like he did it in the first post or anything. Probation? Thats crazy. Besides, you cant expect every single vig kill to hit a mafia.
@Ande: Hi, thanks for the compliments.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
@Keeper- is there some reason you feel that the town should have no say in a dayvig's targets? Why is asking a killing role to give his targets time to claim, and possibly prove their innocence scummy?
Because your reason for proposing such came from an accusation of WoD being anti-town even though he seems to be town, and you would want to control his daykills as how scum would do.
Quote from ChrisXIV »
1) Why are you so certain suddenly?
2) So, are saying it's OK to daykill a person for reasons that are not related to the ongoing game?
I didn't say that i was certain. I said that i think he already claimed a one-shot. I also didn't say that it was ok, but I said that i can see the reason why he shot Cyan. Not once did I say that i was full-blast certain and that it was positively ok.
Absolutely pathetic play, WoD. Try to justify it however you want, but it's blatantly obvious you shot Cyan because he was Cyan. Perhaps you just shouldn't play in games he's in as it's obvious you can't get past that. Like how Cyan plays or not, he's a lightning rod for reactions which is fantastic.
I see Zindabad did not have anything else to say once I blew apart his "I didn't want to get prodded and replaced" explanation; I'm perfectly content to keep my vote there.
@ZDS: Skander's replies were more than enough to get him off my radar. I said as much when I voted Zindabad, whom you seem to think my vote on is "nonsense" and you're totally wrong. There's a good chance he's scum; I'm feeling it.
I expect Shadow Knight will be claiming soon and it's deserved. His stances here remind me more of how he attacked me and Axelrod D1 of SoIF (where he was scum) than his recent townie exploits.
Wow, I have been gone for 3 days and I had to catch up on 8 pages.
First off, I thought that Dragyn_Mage and SK were the same person, or at least that's what I read. If they are, then why is it that they both appear on the votecount?
Secondly, I think that WOD's daykill was petty. But I agree with everyone else that a daykill would be too powerful to scum so I he is 99% town in my book. Even a 1-shot DK is too much for scum.
Thirdly, I really don't like the way that SK is handling the daykill. I also don't want WoD to claim. I know he said that he was a 1-shot but even that info is too much info for scum. And I agree that voting a very probably confirmed townie, even if they act anti-town is in fact anti-town. Unvote, Vote: Shadow Knight.
Okay, I reread the SK business. I still don't agree with the wagon, but I understand the reasons behind it.
MMoD's recent post bothers me. WoD is town and it seems MMoD trying to subtly hint at lynching him for the pettiness of the daykill. I'm against lynching someone with strong townie vibes, regardless how bad they play.
I'm not subtly hinting. I want to lynch him, its just that no one else does.
Furthermore, MMoD goes on to poke at Infinis' post. I can agree with MMoD's analysis of the second paragraph, but 'calling fake' on the first one doesn't make sense to me. What bothers you about the first paragraph, exactly?
Finally, MMoD uses the Chris bandwagon to segue into voting for Bil. The vote looks like a preemptive OMGUS and I get a bad vibe from it.
Preemptive OMGUS? Wtf does that even mean. If you want to call it OMGUS call it OMGUS. I didn't like his vote on me and I didn't like the rest of him either.
What sounded fake was the "I wonder then and I wonder now". Gut feeling hence I said "seems".
I'm happy we didn't have to suffer through a prolonged random stage, but the Chris wagon was much ado about nothing, and I remain suspicious of PM for starting it.
Sorry for my low level of activity, I always take a while to get warmed up in games this size, especially with 5-6 people I haven't played with before. That, and I've been trying to force through the signups for my basic, which was unusually draining.
Not trusting you. Since when does a Zindabad not vote for a suspect?
Tell me then, Zindabad, why you posted what you did about your lack of content above? I'd argue that's a much bigger image tell than what MMoD referenced. He's making a valid defense against being called a bandwagonner when he believed he was placing a legitimate vote amongst a couple silly ones. You were simply saying "I'm not lurking, honest!".
Kpaca, do you not know how to read? Seriously. Actually read what I've said.
"For notation purposes in case the trend continues."
That means I'm giving them time to get back into the swing of things, and if they continue to act scummy, then I will start to look at them with a more condemning eye.
I don't like this "I'm sitting back in judgment and waving a forgiving hand" while not poking at folks thing, Bilbro. Have a frown. You're making excuses for people and not pursuing.
But don't you think it will be more helpful if he would've given his argument first instead of daykilling Cyan right there and then? I believe it would've been better for the town. I mean look, because of his impulsive decision, he killed a townie.
FoS: KeeperOfZion. No. This is a normal game. WoD is confirmed town.
Toughguys exists in normals. (I think that's the name of the role, anyway. I've even run across it in minis, where it is certainly too powerful in my opinion). WoD isn't cleared on role. He's likely town based on behavior, though.
Town: Shadow Knight. Facepalmingly town.
How so?
Re: Niv wagon(?): I haven't played with him before, but he seems the type to be crafty as scum, possibly the type to flaunt his exploits in the postgame. I do not see any of that in this game. Just reasonable pressure on Cyan.
Niv seems town.
Pale Mage has dropped off the face of the planet after I proclaimed him "So very town."
Won't be the last time, either. Besides, if I'm screaming the entire time it's bad for everybody. I'm better in spurts.
I doubt he has anything to lose because as I said, he is likely a one shot. Do I know this for certain? no, but the town always wants information, so its a gamble worth taking in my opinion
If you're going to lurk, you could at least read the thread while you do so.
Actually, I think its QUITE relevant, as that was the reason I voted him, which spawned the votes on me. Rant about that later this post. Ok, I'll add you to the list of suspects. Feel better?
@Keeper- is there some reason you feel that the town should have no say in a dayvig's targets? Why is asking a killing role to give his targets time to claim, and possibly prove their innocence scummy?
@jerrubbal- so you agree that unilaterally killing cyan for non-alignment reasons is bad for the town, yet you call me scummy for it??
@ZDS- would you have used a one-shot dayvig ability on day one on a player who you didn't really think was scummy, just annoying you? Does that not seem like a waste of the town's resources?
@Everyone voting me/pushing my wagon- Is it ok to pursue personal vendettas before win conditions? WoD admits that he didn't have a scum read on Cyan before firing, he was merely shooting because he doesn't like Cyan's playstyle. This is only the second game I've played with Seppel, yet I've seem multiple players whine about his playstyle. Does he generally get vigged night 1? My point is that I play this game to win. That means my win condition come first. If I do something (playstyle wise) that annoys you, PM me or post something in mafia discussion after the game and we'll discuss it. If I get vigged, it had better be becasue the vig thought I was behaving as a scum would, not because he doesn't like my avatar or the way I play. The fact that it was a dayvig that fired annoyed me even more because in that situation, the target could have been given a chance to claim and wasn't. At any rate, what's done is done. He's claimed it was only a one shot ability which is the same thing as saying he won't do it again (this game at least), and that's good enough for me.
FOS: ShadowKnight
Punishing people for wasting the town's resources is dumb, possibly scummy. You were advocating a lynch (the town's most valuable resource) for a unilateral misvig, a wasted resource. The important thing to your win condition (if you're town) is the elimination of scum, not bad town.
I could upgrade this, but I want to see a votecount where you're only listed under one name.
Excellent. I'd PM'd a mod here and asked if he could inform you about my suspension and consider it akin to V/LA as it was only a week.
Quick Summary:
The Chris wagon was a load of rubbish.
The Skander suspicions have some merit.
Pale Mage being dismissed as town is puzzling. Not that I think one way or the other about him. I've never played with him, so I can't say whether he's playing town according to his meta. He's all but disappeared now.
WoD daykilling Cyan for petty reasons is sad. Yes, it was an anti-town play. No, I don't think he's scum.
The wagon on SK is building momentum, but I disagree with it. I don't find Shadow Knight scummy just because he disagrees with the daykill.
Welcome to the game.
PPE: Ok, so SK is one-shot vig. Puzzling. My read on WoD is town, so I'm not inclined to ask SK to take a shot at him. If SK is town, then the implications of this are pretty clear as far as setup goes.
SK is under enough suspicion that he doesn't have a choice but to be on a leash. We have a second lynch.
Not trusting you. Since when does a Zindabad not vote for a suspect?
I was voting you. I still suspect you. Shad and MMoD are worse. I also don't buy his claim and wouldn't be surprised to find that he is the actual SK.
I also don't need you, ZDS, to defend me. DYH has got nothing and I know it - it's incredibly disingenuous, for reasons I will be discussing later, for him to have tried that "and you were scum in all of those games" routine on me. If he wants to waste his vote, by all means, let him continue.
I was voting you. I still suspect you. Shad and MMoD are worse. I also don't buy his claim and wouldn't be surprised to find that he is the actual SK.
Pretty sure you were voting for Cyan at that point. You had voted me, but you moved off when you voted the entire Chris wagon and Cyan in the same post. Feel free to correct me if I'm in error.
SK is a possibility here, and would explain his reactions far better than another one-shot vig. Nevertheless...second lynch.
At least tell me you can understand my annoyance and frustration with WoD. His power is inherently stronger than mine and he wasted it. Yes it pissed me off. Yes my initial reaction was to call for his lynch for it. After cooling off a bit, I was happy to make sure he wouldn't unilaterally decide anyone else needed to die. If none of you can grasp that, then this whole discussion is pointless.
On another note, calling me a serial killer is preposterous. I have exactly 1 kill.
At least tell me you can understand my annoyance and frustration with WoD. His power is inherently stronger than mine and he wasted it. Yes it pissed me off. Yes my initial reaction was to call for his lynch for it. After cooling off a bit, I was happy to make sure he wouldn't unilaterally decide anyone else needed to die. If none of you can grasp that, then this whole discussion is pointless.
The part I'm trying to grasp is where you think WoD might be town in your intial reactions.
On another note, calling me a serial killer is preposterous. I have exactly 1 kill.
@PM- It was more that I couldn't believe a scum with that ability would out himself day 1 with no pressure. Huge point towards towniness. I've never seen a serial killer who could refuse to shoot.
Pretty sure you were voting for Cyan at that point. You had voted me, but you moved off when you voted the entire Chris wagon and Cyan in the same post. Feel free to correct me if I'm in error.
SK is a possibility here, and would explain his reactions far better than another one-shot vig. Nevertheless...second lynch.
I have not voted Cyan in this game, and I never did any of that "vote-all-wagon" kind of thing. You have me mistaken with someone else, I think.
@Shad: I have seen many such SKs. See AE's role in Manga Mafia, Kraj's in Dictionary, etc.
I still think you may be scum but the claim changes things, at least for me, at least for now. You get the WoD umbrella.
So, you don't want to vote the power role, but at the same time want to be able to have an excuse to jump back on the wagon? Spluh? Here, have a vote. unvote: Vote Yodavader
I also don't need you, ZDS, to defend me. DYH has got nothing and I know it - it's incredibly disingenuous, for reasons I will be discussing later, for him to have tried that "and you were scum in all of those games" routine on me. If he wants to waste his vote, by all means, let him continue.
Oh dear sweet mother of Robert Plant don't start this jive again. You can't just counter arguments with "derf I'm not responding, you've got nothing, lol derf". And why are you discussing his disingenuousness later? Whats the hold up? Seriously, saying "if you vote me your just wasting your vote" is the crappiest response ever. Here, have a fos Fos: zindabad
At least tell me you can understand my annoyance and frustration with WoD. His power is inherently stronger than mine and he wasted it. Yes it pissed me off. Yes my initial reaction was to call for his lynch for it. After cooling off a bit, I was happy to make sure he wouldn't unilaterally decide anyone else needed to die. If none of you can grasp that, then this whole discussion is pointless.
On another note, calling me a serial killer is preposterous. I have exactly 1 kill.
So..........you voted out of jealousy?
@Pale Mage: I found the aformentioned Skander post to be very town because he very calmly and concisely repsoned to points in a logical manner while asking questions about parts of the argument he didn't understand. I find this to very much be how town Skander would play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
So, you don't want to vote the power role, but at the same time want to be able to have an excuse to jump back on the wagon? Spluh? Here, have a vote. unvote: Vote Yodavader
Unless it's a scum role, I don't like voting for PR's. More often than not, they help the town. And yes, I have been in games where people get fed up with the game and outed their scum roles and their scummates. Not too much fun after that.
But the FoS is there to say that until it is proven, he is still on my scumdar list. WoD proved it to me, so I really have no reason to think he is scum. SK is still in the air as to whether it is a real or fake claim.
Oh dear sweet mother of Robert Plant don't start this jive again. You can't just counter arguments with "derf I'm not responding, you've got nothing, lol derf". And why are you discussing his disingenuousness later? Whats the hold up? Seriously, saying "if you vote me your just wasting your vote" is the crappiest response ever. Here, have a fos Fos: zindabad
The hold up is an active game, of course.
There's nothing DYH said that I need to respond to. What I posted was legitimate and has been done a hundred times by a hundred players, both scum and town. For him to extrapolate scum alignment out of "here's a post to remind you I'm still in the game, I don't want to get prodded" is pie-in-the-sky stuff and I simply don't have to bother with that kind of twilight zone speculation.
There's nothing DYH said that I need to respond to. What I posted was legitimate and has been done a hundred times by a hundred players, both scum and town. For him to extrapolate scum alignment out of "here's a post to remind you I'm still in the game, I don't want to get prodded" is pie-in-the-sky stuff and I simply don't have to bother with that kind of twilight zone speculation.
I would say there actually is stuff you need to respond to. unvote: Vote zindabad.
Do you have to bother with it now?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Official Moderator of The [Gutter]
Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Shadow's claim makes perfect sense for his behavior.
Pale Mage and Kpaca (wow) bring up good points against them on this page. Not so sure about the Zindabad ones (need to see him post more).
I'd like to see Yodavader and Keeperofzion die (and what luck, we have a vig!).
Keeperofzion for fencesitting on an issue that needed no fencesitting ("Is WoD a good guy for being able to daykill, or is he not because of dk'ing a townie?")
Yodavader for unvoting yet FoSing WoD. Kpaca puts it best as an excuse to be able to jump back on the wagon, when, if Yodavader was smart, would know the wagon would never come to fruition. He's hoping they don't have to waste a kill on a 99% confirmed townie.
It's like they were trying to keep the WoD issue nagging in the back of people's minds, but failed. Horribly.
Unvote: Vote Yodavader since I can only choose one of them.
Um. I didn't FoS WoD. I FoSed Shadow Knight. I am 99% sure that WoD is town, so why would I FoS him? Shadow is yet to be confirmed, that's why the FoS is there.
I would say there actually is stuff you need to respond to. unvote: Vote zindabad.
Do you have to bother with it now?
I know beyond any shadow of doubt that DYH's attack on me was insincere, and what's more, that he knew it was insincere when he made it. That's all I need to disregard it.
The real scum is Shad. His reasoning for backing off the WoD wagon is preposterous: "I was frustrated, so I responded by wanting to lynch a 99% confirmed townie, but now I that I cooled down I'm ok with him living since he can't vig anyone else." His immediate response was to name WoD as scum for killing a townie - as though every other vig in history didn't take down some townies - and then after that reflected badly on him, he tried to slink out of the spotlight, but not before fishing WoD just to make sure he didn't have to worry about being next on the menu.
I can't imagine how a mafia would claim one-shot vig and get away with it, so I think it's much more likely that he's the SK, will kill someone the town demands dead tonight, then try to make it to the endgame where he can win it all with the kill the remaining townies wouldn't think he has.
I can't imagine how a mafia would claim one-shot vig and get away with it, so I think it's much more likely that he's the SK, will kill someone the town demands dead tonight, then try to make it to the endgame where he can win it all with the kill the remaining townies wouldn't think he has.
Let's not fall for this.
What do you propose, sir? And why SK over Toughguy?
Sure, if there were no other reasons for it, I'd agree.
Am I the only one who heard an slightly evil cackle in the background when I read this?
@CPE - I asked because randomly defending a third party is sketch. Usually you let people answer the accusations which are directed against them themselves, it's more profitable for people who are looking for certain reactions. ZDS's defense of you seemed off since (frankly) you haven't posted anything amounting to relevant content this game. Ande's attack made sense to me, ZDS's defense didn't. ZDS's response cleared it up. Even if I don't agree w/ him, his logic is consistent.
@ ZDS - when you phrase a hypothetical question like that, there is always an implied answer, like it or not. It did not appear to be a personally directed question.
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
Preemptive OMGUS? Wtf does that even mean. If you want to call it OMGUS call it OMGUS. I didn't like his vote on me and I didn't like the rest of him either.
What sounded fake was the "I wonder then and I wonder now". Gut feeling hence I said "seems".
He was referring to a past game. The same situation came up in this one. It got him wondering both times.
At least, that's what the statement looked like to me. I don't know how your gut works, but mine is telling me its not fake.
As I said though, I think you've got a point about the second paragraph in that post.
Back to the WoD and SK debacle, there's a good chance one of them is scum.
I'd like to hear the flavor of SK's role.
I'd like WoD to post some content. If you're 1-shot like you say you are, why not put your pettiness aside and help us scumhunt?
Your implied answer is that you can't? Postmodern trashlogic.
Also, why defend CPE?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
Personally I think keeperofzion is newb. Ignoring currently.
SK's play doesn't seem bad to me, maybe because I somewhat sympathize with wanting WoD to hang. His backing off later is the only real thing I have issue with.
Don't like this post. Paragraph one seems fake, especially the part at the end. Second paragraph is very ick. Trying to sound townie by supporting the "WoD is town, don't lynch for bad play" while having an "original reason" to pad it (and the reason is pretty bad and tries to explain someone elses actions).
I have no idea what people's (I think I counted around 5, so I'll address it) beef with my one post is. I felt weird reading Chris's posts. Not sure how that falls under craplogic, but w.e floats your boat. I said what I felt and kept my vote there since I didn't have much of a place to put it. I defended a bandwagonning accusation because why would I not defend myself when someone calls me scummy and there's a simple answer why it's not scummy. I reread him, still feel weird about his posts, but I find other people more scummy than that feeling now:
I find it highly suspicious how Bilbroxain voted me for defending a bandwagonning accusation and kept mentioning me even though really, there's no case on me (Seppel and others would argue otherwise, but w.e) and all he has is hot air, later adding a quip about keeperofzion (oppurtunistic) and now SK (with a comment I personally don't agree with).
I don't find SK that bad. His original posts i can agree with; the backing off later seemed worse, but I don't find it lynchworthy.
unvote, vote bilbroxain
He IS town.
My thoughts:
WoD town. Kill does seem petty. Wish he didn't claim 1-shot though to keep scum on their toes.
I would have had the same reaction as SK about the whole "if he's not scum, we're lynching you." so that's not a good tell.
The other thing that bugs me is infinis' post about WoD using the ability to get it off before he's potentially killed, but it seems like a scummy post in my mind right now. Just way off.
Anyway, i just read through quickly adn will reread better on Tuesday when i get home earlier.
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
Or when he accused me of blatantly cheating at the end of Amistarian, with no evidence whatsoever?
Despite all that, he got Mafia Player of the Year.
He's done this before as both town and mafia, and it almost always generates negativity and distraction. Just once, I actually had the power to cut it off before it happened.
As a general rule, as Town or Mafia, Cyan tends to lead the town to at least two, sometimes more than two mislynches, before the rest of the Town realize that he just arbitrarily picks targets and yells at them for the rest of the game.
Yeah, I guess you could say it's a bit personal.
MMoD's recent post bothers me. WoD is town and it seems MMoD trying to subtly hint at lynching him for the pettiness of the daykill. I'm against lynching someone with strong townie vibes, regardless how bad they play.
Furthermore, MMoD goes on to poke at Infinis' post. I can agree with MMoD's analysis of the second paragraph, but 'calling fake' on the first one doesn't make sense to me. What bothers you about the first paragraph, exactly?
Finally, MMoD uses the Chris bandwagon to segue into voting for Bil. The vote looks like a preemptive OMGUS and I get a bad vibe from it.
Best Celeb Gossip Ever: http://www.twitter-tracker.com/
Currently building: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=170776
Now a great discussion thread!
Amazing new card: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=184683
Why not? do you have proof I am scum?
@Everybody on SK: Have you guys not learned? This is classic SK. Attack the wrong guy, dont admit you are wrong, and next he will have some claim that is true yet unbelievable. He is town no matter how many times he falls into the "defeatest" scum tell. Not everybody plays mafia the same way, and what he is doing is what he thinks is right, even if it doesnt follow conventional wisdom. And before you bash it completely, lets look at a another person who diddnt follow conventional wisdom: Chamber. Anybody remember him even? I mean he was completely hated yet he was a great scum hunter. I am not saying WoD is scum in any shape or form for I believe he isnt. All I am saying is that SK may yet come up with something. Especially those who all piled onto that wagon.
@WoD and vigging: Are you guys really trying to convince people that a ton of vigging is killing those who annoy you and look scummy? Sure WoD had a reason to kill him, but its not like he did it in the first post or anything. Probation? Thats crazy. Besides, you cant expect every single vig kill to hit a mafia.
@Ande: Hi, thanks for the compliments.
13 to lynch
Skander - 1 yodavader
ZDS - 1 keyofdestiny
cpe - 1 andelijah
mmod - 1 Zeppel
zindabad - 1 Disrupt your Hymn
Niv - 1 Nom_Anor
Disrupt Your Hymn - 1 ZDS
keeperofzion - 1 ChrisXIV
dragyn_mage - 7 cpe, Alx2, kpaca, Niv, keeperofzion, Bilbroxian, zindabad
Bilbroxian - 1 mmod
Not Voting:MTG Junkie, Skander, Pale Mage, WoD, dragyn_mage, Infinis, jerubbaal
Requests will be honored
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Because your reason for proposing such came from an accusation of WoD being anti-town even though he seems to be town, and you would want to control his daykills as how scum would do.
I didn't say that i was certain. I said that i think he already claimed a one-shot. I also didn't say that it was ok, but I said that i can see the reason why he shot Cyan. Not once did I say that i was full-blast certain and that it was positively ok.
I think there is a mistake. I believe I voted for SK, not dragyn_mage. but just in case. unvote, vote Shadow Knight.
I see Zindabad did not have anything else to say once I blew apart his "I didn't want to get prodded and replaced" explanation; I'm perfectly content to keep my vote there.
@ZDS: Skander's replies were more than enough to get him off my radar. I said as much when I voted Zindabad, whom you seem to think my vote on is "nonsense" and you're totally wrong. There's a good chance he's scum; I'm feeling it.
I expect Shadow Knight will be claiming soon and it's deserved. His stances here remind me more of how he attacked me and Axelrod D1 of SoIF (where he was scum) than his recent townie exploits.
FoS: Shadow Knight
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
First off, I thought that Dragyn_Mage and SK were the same person, or at least that's what I read. If they are, then why is it that they both appear on the votecount?
Secondly, I think that WOD's daykill was petty. But I agree with everyone else that a daykill would be too powerful to scum so I he is 99% town in my book. Even a 1-shot DK is too much for scum.
Thirdly, I really don't like the way that SK is handling the daykill. I also don't want WoD to claim. I know he said that he was a 1-shot but even that info is too much info for scum. And I agree that voting a very probably confirmed townie, even if they act anti-town is in fact anti-town. Unvote, Vote: Shadow Knight.
Preemptive OMGUS? Wtf does that even mean. If you want to call it OMGUS call it OMGUS. I didn't like his vote on me and I didn't like the rest of him either.
What sounded fake was the "I wonder then and I wonder now". Gut feeling hence I said "seems".
I still think you may be scum but the claim changes things, at least for me, at least for now. You get the WoD umbrella.
Not trusting you. Since when does a Zindabad not vote for a suspect?
Although this was ages ago (in terms of events), I still want to know why the post strikes you as townie.
Thumbs up.
I don't like this "I'm sitting back in judgment and waving a forgiving hand" while not poking at folks thing, Bilbro. Have a frown. You're making excuses for people and not pursuing.
Boo. Hiss.
If you don't think he's scum it's a waste of a lynch, though. The damage is already done. Why make it worse?
Vote: KeeperofZion
Very scummy post.
Also scummy.
Toughguys exists in normals. (I think that's the name of the role, anyway. I've even run across it in minis, where it is certainly too powerful in my opinion). WoD isn't cleared on role. He's likely town based on behavior, though.
How so?
Niv seems town.
Won't be the last time, either. Besides, if I'm screaming the entire time it's bad for everybody. I'm better in spurts.
If you're going to lurk, you could at least read the thread while you do so.
FOS: CPE
FOS: ShadowKnight
Punishing people for wasting the town's resources is dumb, possibly scummy. You were advocating a lynch (the town's most valuable resource) for a unilateral misvig, a wasted resource. The important thing to your win condition (if you're town) is the elimination of scum, not bad town.
I could upgrade this, but I want to see a votecount where you're only listed under one name.
Welcome to the game.
PPE: Ok, so SK is one-shot vig. Puzzling. My read on WoD is town, so I'm not inclined to ask SK to take a shot at him. If SK is town, then the implications of this are pretty clear as far as setup goes.
SK is under enough suspicion that he doesn't have a choice but to be on a leash. We have a second lynch.
I was voting you. I still suspect you. Shad and MMoD are worse. I also don't buy his claim and wouldn't be surprised to find that he is the actual SK.
I also don't need you, ZDS, to defend me. DYH has got nothing and I know it - it's incredibly disingenuous, for reasons I will be discussing later, for him to have tried that "and you were scum in all of those games" routine on me. If he wants to waste his vote, by all means, let him continue.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Pretty sure you were voting for Cyan at that point. You had voted me, but you moved off when you voted the entire Chris wagon and Cyan in the same post. Feel free to correct me if I'm in error.
SK is a possibility here, and would explain his reactions far better than another one-shot vig. Nevertheless...second lynch.
On another note, calling me a serial killer is preposterous. I have exactly 1 kill.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Many thanks to Sgt. Chubbz of Damnation studios.
The part I'm trying to grasp is where you think WoD might be town in your intial reactions.
When did this become difficult to fake?
I have not voted Cyan in this game, and I never did any of that "vote-all-wagon" kind of thing. You have me mistaken with someone else, I think.
@Shad: I have seen many such SKs. See AE's role in Manga Mafia, Kraj's in Dictionary, etc.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
So, you don't want to vote the power role, but at the same time want to be able to have an excuse to jump back on the wagon? Spluh? Here, have a vote. unvote: Vote Yodavader
Oh dear sweet mother of Robert Plant don't start this jive again. You can't just counter arguments with "derf I'm not responding, you've got nothing, lol derf". And why are you discussing his disingenuousness later? Whats the hold up? Seriously, saying "if you vote me your just wasting your vote" is the crappiest response ever. Here, have a fos Fos: zindabad
So..........you voted out of jealousy?
@Pale Mage: I found the aformentioned Skander post to be very town because he very calmly and concisely repsoned to points in a logical manner while asking questions about parts of the argument he didn't understand. I find this to very much be how town Skander would play.
Unless it's a scum role, I don't like voting for PR's. More often than not, they help the town. And yes, I have been in games where people get fed up with the game and outed their scum roles and their scummates. Not too much fun after that.
But the FoS is there to say that until it is proven, he is still on my scumdar list. WoD proved it to me, so I really have no reason to think he is scum. SK is still in the air as to whether it is a real or fake claim.
The hold up is an active game, of course.
There's nothing DYH said that I need to respond to. What I posted was legitimate and has been done a hundred times by a hundred players, both scum and town. For him to extrapolate scum alignment out of "here's a post to remind you I'm still in the game, I don't want to get prodded" is pie-in-the-sky stuff and I simply don't have to bother with that kind of twilight zone speculation.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Jealousy no. Frustration, annoyance, etc yes.
I would say there actually is stuff you need to respond to. unvote: Vote zindabad.
Do you have to bother with it now?
Pale Mage and Kpaca (wow) bring up good points against them on this page. Not so sure about the Zindabad ones (need to see him post more).
I'd like to see Yodavader and Keeperofzion die (and what luck, we have a vig!).
Keeperofzion for fencesitting on an issue that needed no fencesitting ("Is WoD a good guy for being able to daykill, or is he not because of dk'ing a townie?")
Yodavader for unvoting yet FoSing WoD. Kpaca puts it best as an excuse to be able to jump back on the wagon, when, if Yodavader was smart, would know the wagon would never come to fruition. He's hoping they don't have to waste a kill on a 99% confirmed townie.
It's like they were trying to keep the WoD issue nagging in the back of people's minds, but failed. Horribly.
Unvote: Vote Yodavader since I can only choose one of them.
I know beyond any shadow of doubt that DYH's attack on me was insincere, and what's more, that he knew it was insincere when he made it. That's all I need to disregard it.
The real scum is Shad. His reasoning for backing off the WoD wagon is preposterous: "I was frustrated, so I responded by wanting to lynch a 99% confirmed townie, but now I that I cooled down I'm ok with him living since he can't vig anyone else." His immediate response was to name WoD as scum for killing a townie - as though every other vig in history didn't take down some townies - and then after that reflected badly on him, he tried to slink out of the spotlight, but not before fishing WoD just to make sure he didn't have to worry about being next on the menu.
I can't imagine how a mafia would claim one-shot vig and get away with it, so I think it's much more likely that he's the SK, will kill someone the town demands dead tonight, then try to make it to the endgame where he can win it all with the kill the remaining townies wouldn't think he has.
Let's not fall for this.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Apparently I have you confused with WoD. I retract my point.
What do you propose, sir? And why SK over Toughguy?
Am I the only one who heard an slightly evil cackle in the background when I read this?
@CPE - I asked because randomly defending a third party is sketch. Usually you let people answer the accusations which are directed against them themselves, it's more profitable for people who are looking for certain reactions. ZDS's defense of you seemed off since (frankly) you haven't posted anything amounting to relevant content this game. Ande's attack made sense to me, ZDS's defense didn't. ZDS's response cleared it up. Even if I don't agree w/ him, his logic is consistent.
@ ZDS - when you phrase a hypothetical question like that, there is always an implied answer, like it or not. It did not appear to be a personally directed question.
@mod - is the last votecount correct?
MTGS stats (won/played)
As scum - 3/5
As town - 5/7
As neutral - none
(I really have been scum a lot)
I'm now writing for Eye of the Vortex, come check out MTG articles and other geek culture
I also moderate the MTG forum, so register (it's free) and voice your thoughts.
I've been more suspicious of Niv most of the game, but Niv's recent posts, while I have not been liking them, are less suspicious to me than Alx.
Not only did he start of the game tripping my scumdar, he hasn't posted since page 5. Scummy+Lurking= Unhappyfacesmiley
I think Seppel and CPE are both town, and we should listen to them.
@ZDS: Yes you are right, SK is no chamber. That said he may yet come up with something.
Why lynch an almost confirmed townie AT ALL? I don't like the pettiness involved, but (1-shot or not) WoD can still help us out think the scum.
Okay, I think its OMGUS.
He was referring to a past game. The same situation came up in this one. It got him wondering both times.
At least, that's what the statement looked like to me. I don't know how your gut works, but mine is telling me its not fake.
As I said though, I think you've got a point about the second paragraph in that post.
Back to the WoD and SK debacle, there's a good chance one of them is scum.
I'd like to hear the flavor of SK's role.
I'd like WoD to post some content. If you're 1-shot like you say you are, why not put your pettiness aside and help us scumhunt?
Best Celeb Gossip Ever: http://www.twitter-tracker.com/
Currently building: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=170776
Now a great discussion thread!
Amazing new card: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=184683
sigh....
This seems like a bad play this early, but I counterclaim.
I'm the Piper.
I'll post more detail (if necessary) tonight as this is interesting, but I'd rather keep my ability private.
Vote: Shadowknight
Mafia Stats:
2/3 Loss(#28 Town Disgaea,)
1/3 Wins(#29 Chess replacement, #1 Town GCF)
unvote: Vote Shadow Knight.