Right now, I am in favour of an Alpha lynch. I will decide on spot later, but if it comes to that, I think either WoD or FMJ are optimal targets for shooting.
How are you in favor of an Alpha lynch while asking him to shoot specific people at the same time? Why are you even assuming he's capable of shooting people if you also think he is scum?
@Ged: Silo9 should also be Cheeseburger Consortium
I re-read Spot, and while I find Ced's case compelling - particularly the disappearing and not pressuring MoW more, I'm not sure. The way he's posting doesn't strike me as that scummy, although the last post really caught my eye.Plus, I'm really not sure we should let up on Alpha. I want to hear Spot's responses before I make a decision.
Right now, I am in favour of an Alpha lynch. I will decide on spot later, but if it comes to that, I think either WoD or FMJ are optimal targets for shooting.
This post is GOLDEN.
So first you are hedging your bets, setting up for a quick switch onto Spot if you can't get alpha lynched.
Then you say you're in favour of an alpha lynch, then you say that he should shoot? As Ande said, that is very very suspicious. While I'd love to support you, since you want to see Alpha lynched, that post betrays the fact that you already know Alpha is town.
I'm happy with a Toastboy lynch. He was my next best candidate anyway, since I've been hating his strange relationship with Roja.
I think I'd be happier with an alpha lynch, so I'm going to keep my vote on him, but I'm happy to move to a Toastboy lynch, since it seems unlikely at this point alpha's going to get lynched.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
[5] Each day will have a deadline arbitrarily selected be me. If the game reaches the deadline, I'll pretend everyone not voting doesn't exist and check again for a majority. If there is, that person gets lynched. If there isn't, there's no lynch for the day.
Keep this in mind. If deadline is reached, and we don't have a clear majority, we no lynch. Other than maybe Draknodred ;), I'm sure we can all agree that no lynching is failure.
I think an awesome plan would be to lynch spotofprey, who is almost certainly scum. Afterward, Alpha can shoot WoD, who looks quite a bit like a scum buddy. He's done typical scum buddy things like, agree with the case on RW but not vote him, followed by suspiciously declaring spot town with no underlying rationale. Perhaps a more recent example would be the time he tried to get a wagon on Toastboy rolling while also completely ignoring spot.
Upon completion of the above objective, we would then seek to examine players like Andelijah. He replaced Tolor, the player who didn't really take a solid stance on spot and instead pushed a MoW case when the spot wagon was at it's highest point. Or perhaps a better suspect would be Slio9, who repeatedly asserted that the case on spot was good, but was just so hesitant to actually place a vote on him, opting instead to jump right onto the MoW wagon that sprung up.
Anyone else game for lynching some scum? Spot into WoD into Slio9 for the triple play?
Actually, this is perfect. If we lynch Toast and he comes up scum, that should pretty much clear Alpha Werewolf, who Toastboy has been pursuing.
Alpha can then fire tonight to prove his ability, if he has it. If not, we can lynch him tomorrow.
Which can be roughly translated into:
"Let's lynch Toastboy. He'll end up being town. Tonight we will roleblock/no-kill to frame Alpha, and then we can follow the Toastboy mislynch with an Alpha mislynch"
If by tommorow there isn't an extension (deadline's in two days) I'll switch my vote over to spot. However, what WoD did made him a much better scum candidate in my eyes than he ever was. Nom's agreement is very suspicious too.
I don't really see what he found wrong with Toast's post.
I think an awesome plan would be to lynch spotofprey, who is almost certainly scum. Afterward, Alpha can shoot WoD, who looks quite a bit like a scum buddy. He's done typical scum buddy things like, agree with the case on RW but not vote him, followed by suspiciously declaring spot town with no underlying rationale. Perhaps a more recent example would be the time he tried to get a wagon on Toastboy rolling while also completely ignoring spot.
The issue I have with this is the bolded part, because a little later you said this regarding WoDs comment on Toastboy
Quote from Goatrevolt »
Which can be roughly translated into:
"Let's lynch Toastboy. He'll end up being town. Tonight we will roleblock/no-kill to frame Alpha, and then we can follow the Toastboy mislynch with an Alpha mislynch"
You go from saying that A_W will shoot WoD with no problem to him being screwed over by the mafia. How the mafia only messes with the kill if there was a lynch on Toastboy?
Quote from Roja »
So you have no read on WoD because he hasen't talked much? And while FMJ has talked more, it only has caused him to look like scum in your eyes. Am I getting this correct?
I think you're skewing what I said, he wasn't scummy because he talked more, I just actually had something to go off of on him while at the time I didn't feel the same way with WoD.
Quote from Roja »
So weak argument or are you just ready for the day to end?
My argument or his? His is weak, mine is just stating an opinion on why he would go with something like that.
I would not be opposed to a Spot lynch, but have yet to make a definite decision - waiting for his response. If we do decide to lynch Spot, then obviously I want to test Alpha, who I am still confident about as scum.
It's quite clear I still think Alpha is scum, I didn't get a big read either way on spot so I want to hear his rsponse, but would not be opposed to his lynch at this moment. If we go with that, obviously i want to test Alpha to see how he tries to squirm out of his claim.
Your post betrays the fact you know Alpha is town - you think I'm scum, but you'd 'love to support me'? I agree with Goat.
This just sounds like you're getting desperate because the game is stalling, so you jump on me. HoS:WoD
"It's quite clear I still think Alpha is scum"
"Your post betrays you know Alpha is town"
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
The issue I have with this is the bolded part, because a little later you said this regarding WoDs comment on Toastboy
You go from saying that A_W will shoot WoD with no problem to him being screwed over by the mafia. How the mafia only messes with the kill if there was a lynch on Toastboy?
Wha? How does the first section at all suggest that Alpha shoots WoD no problem? Saying Alpha should use his shot on WoD is not the same as saying Alpha's shot on WoD will succeed.
The 2nd section was simply me pointing out WoD's motivation as scum.
Wha? How does the first section at all suggest that Alpha shoots WoD no problem? Saying Alpha should use his shot on WoD is not the same as saying Alpha's shot on WoD will succeed.
The 2nd section was simply me pointing out WoD's motivation as scum.
Fair enough, just trying to get a more clear wording.
What better mad mischief than to swap around everyone's hats? I see that you have no answer. And I am not at all surprised, for indeed there is no finer mischief than a swapping around of hats.
The reason I went after toast is because he accused Alpha of being scum while still saying he wants alpha to shoot tonight - which is blatant slip indicating knowledge that a townie just would not have. And, if toastboy turns up scum, I'd say it's a pretty solid fact in Alpha's favour. I suppose I am feeling a bit better about alpha because of that.
Alternatively, if alpha can shoot someone tonight,(probably me, since I seem to be drawing a lot of suspicion for some reason :-/) that will no doubt confirm him. I'm not happy about being killed, but I suppose better me than someone at random who may not be vanilla.
Needless to say, Roger was very scummy, being very critical of Drakno in an attack that came after what was basically a quick hunt for angles. When SOP replaced in, he was immediately under pressure, and posted a fair bit, including a beginning of him applying pressure to MoW, which eventually ended in a vote. However, after that vote, SoP basically all but left pressuring MoW. His only other mention of MoW was here, in post 267, where he said this:
in a passing mention, which is hugely understated if he was a townie who had been legimately suspicious on MoW. From basically that point, the spotlight moves off SoP, and he responds by lurking. In the second half of May, there’s 12 days between actual content provided by him. I also agree that the read switch on Alpha is very telling, and smells of him taking the read that’s convenient to either look better after lynching Alpha, or get Alpha lynched when it isn’t happening.
Vote spotofprey
First, you need to learn the definition between lurking and inactivity. I was genuinely busy - its not like I was constantly reading the thread and refused to post.
I backed off on MoW because no one shared my suspicions. This gives me 2 outcomes - either I'm wrong and no one else sees him as scummy, or everyone is too focused on their own pet targets that they don't care. I'm not as arrogant as some players seem to be - I could always be wrong on my reads. I don't think they are wrong, but I also don't think they are 100% mortal locks. I'm not the type of player to throw a temper tantrum and refuse to come out of the sandbox because the other players won't play with me.
I have a similar conundrum with Alpha. I saw many town reads from him in the early game, but haven't seen any recently (pretty much since he's been under real pressure). I'm not saying that my read is 100% accurate - it may not be. We gain nothing by me stubbornly keeping my vote on MoW as the game grinds to a Day 1 no lynch. I'm only being attacked because some people can't remember who they actually find scummy so they jump at shadows.
I think an awesome plan would be to lynch spotofprey, who is almost certainly scum. Afterward, Alpha can shoot WoD, who looks quite a bit like a scum buddy. He's done typical scum buddy things like, agree with the case on RW but not vote him, followed by suspiciously declaring spot town with no underlying rationale. Perhaps a more recent example would be the time he tried to get a wagon on Toastboy rolling while also completely ignoring spot.
Upon completion of the above objective, we would then seek to examine players like Andelijah. He replaced Tolor, the player who didn't really take a solid stance on spot and instead pushed a MoW case when the spot wagon was at it's highest point. Or perhaps a better suspect would be Slio9, who repeatedly asserted that the case on spot was good, but was just so hesitant to actually place a vote on him, opting instead to jump right onto the MoW wagon that sprung up.
Anyone else game for lynching some scum? Spot into WoD into Slio9 for the triple play?
"Let's lynch Toastboy. He'll end up being town. Tonight we will roleblock/no-kill to frame Alpha, and then we can follow the Toastboy mislynch with an Alpha mislynch"
Usually posts this hypocritical are separated by more time and posts.
For goatrevolt's initial outrage, andelijah stole most of my thunder. The only thing I would add would be what I wrote above to ced.
I have a similar conundrum with Alpha. I saw many town reads from him in the early game, but haven't seen any recently (pretty much since he's been under real pressure). I'm not saying that my read is 100% accurate - it may not be. We gain nothing by me stubbornly keeping my vote on MoW as the game grinds to a Day 1 no lynch. I'm only being attacked because some people can't remember who they actually find scummy so they jump at shadows.
Funny. What do you classify as "early in the game?" Because your post where you said he was showing an "organic townie thought process" was pretty late in the day. In fact, it was after the wagon was already going and after he had already claimed. Since then, Alpha hasn't really done much either way, except create a case you agreed with on WoD.
Maybe my math is pretty poor, but this equation doesn't seem to make much sense to me: "Town read + created case you agree with = neutral."
Usually posts this hypocritical are separated by more time and posts.
There's a difference. WoD's post is along the lines of "if he's town, then let's next go for another player." That's a nice way to set up two consecutive mislynches. My post is "if he's scum, here's his buddy" which is not setting up consecutive mislynches (not to mention the fact that one is a vig shot, not a lynch, anyway).
I'm not seeing the case on Spot. If you want to lynch him because he's RW, I can understand that and might be willing to do it, but I haven't found his actions so far to be suspicious.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
So first you are hedging your bets, setting up for a quick switch onto Spot if you can't get alpha lynched.
Then you say you're in favour of an alpha lynch, then you say that he should shoot? As Ande said, that is very very suspicious. While I'd love to support you, since you want to see Alpha lynched, that post betrays the fact that you already know Alpha is town.
Alpha can wait.
Unvote, Vote Toastboy.
I only would like to mention that Toast has been "in the middle" before. This is just yet ANOTHER post where he just wants to be right.
The reason I went after toast is because he accused Alpha of being scum while still saying he wants alpha to shoot tonight - which is blatant slip indicating knowledge that a townie just would not have. And, if toastboy turns up scum, I'd say it's a pretty solid fact in Alpha's favour. I suppose I am feeling a bit better about alpha because of that.
Alternatively, if alpha can shoot someone tonight,(probably me, since I seem to be drawing a lot of suspicion for some reason :-/) that will no doubt confirm him. I'm not happy about being killed, but I suppose better me than someone at random who may not be vanilla.
Why NOW would you comment on something I thought was already known about Toast? And any reason for the smiley? I don't associate them with you.
Feels outta place
I only would like to mention that Toast has been "in the middle" before. This is just yet ANOTHER post where he just wants to be right.
I thought it was odd that NOW he comments on how flip floppy Toastboy is.
[snip]
Why NOW would you comment on something I thought was already known about Toast? And any reason for the smiley? I don't associate them with you.
Feels outta place
I like how you now turn and attack the person critical of Toastboy. Trying to protect your scumbuddy, mayhaps?
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
You forgot to note ande's wagoning, and ced is also voting for spot.
Quote from Nom »
I'm not seeing the case on Spot. If you want to lynch him because he's RW, I can understand that and might be willing to do it, but I haven't found his actions so far to be suspicious.
Are you serious? Nothing about spot voting Alpha while saying he agrees with his PBPA, or justifying the vote by saying "might as well get on with the game" pings your scumdar?
What better mad mischief than to swap around everyone's hats? I see that you have no answer. And I am not at all surprised, for indeed there is no finer mischief than a swapping around of hats.
Are you serious? Nothing about spot voting Alpha while saying he agrees with his PBPA, or justifying the vote by saying "might as well get on with the game" pings your scumdar?
I'd be happy with a toast or alpha lynch, but the alpha one is the only one that seems possible to happen today. I'm content just to point out his scummy behavior and wait for tomorrow.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
First, here are some notes about certain players I took during read.
Alpha Werewolf: Early on I took notes noting how he quickly came under pressure, then tried to have things slip back toward randomness, more than likely to remove pressure from himself and get the town to "move on" so to speak. To be honest I stopped keeping any sort of notations for everything he did that was scummy, as it was too much work due to the severely large number of scummy things he did. I do think the way in which he gave up, then promptly declared vig was silly in its scumminess. To me defeatism like that is most often a scum move.
Tolor/ande: Seemed townie to me early on, and andelijah has done nothing to sway me from thinking that.
Dragoon26/ced: Early on I noticed how Dragoon used players replacing as an excuse not to comment on anything going on. I found this awkward and a good way for Dragoon to lurk. In another Dragoon game I've seen he was much more upfront and out in the open as a townie. Ced hasn't done much of not for me, but he does seem a bit unfocused in his anlysis. He doesn't seem intent on finding scum so much as pointing out eveyones scum tells and trying to paint them in a lynchable light.
FereMiyJeenyus: I really don't have a very good read on FMJ. There are times he seems to be in the right directions, but there are other times in which FMJ appears to be doing things from a scum mindset. One thing that set me off early was when FMJ said he wasn't voting to reach lynches, but voting for pressure. To me there is no reason to vote for someone you don't want to see lynched, as really voting just to get peoples roles/info/etc is like an elaborately hidden fishing move.
Draknodred: I could go on for days about how scummy Drak has been. I'm not sure whether or not I'm ready for him to get a noob pass either. I think we can give him one at least for today, but not for too long, as his play as a "newb town" has been uninspiring at best.
GoatRevolt: From what I've read of GoatRevolt, this game fits with his town meta, and overall most posts I see from him fit a townie perspective. If I were to post a town/scum list, GoatRevolt would be near the top of the town portion.
MasterofWarcraft/Nom Anor: I think not enough people are looking at Nom, and I think we should. I think due to Master's early scumminess, Nom should be atleast scrutinized a little more than he/she is/was. Early on Master comes to post during the moments right after the random phase has ended, and informs us that he doesn't want to be labeled a lurker, but then says vote stands.............on a random vote. To me this was a good way for Master to avoid the lurker label, while throwing out what is likely a lazy newb scum attempt to look productive. Then his next couple of posts seem to fall along the lines of "Oh, I was going to say such and such, but Steve already said it /barn". Then upon reread, uses the replacements as an excuse not to say anything, and then calls out lurkers. In my experience, newb scum often try to set up the lurker mislynch as a good way to nab someone day 1. Then he later says he doesn't want to say anything for fear it will make him look suspicious. Basic mafia player psychology says that as a newb town, one would be goal oriented, and excited to be looking/finding scum. A newb scum will be the one worried about looking suspicious, for fear they will be unable to defend themselves, especially in a game such as this with more experienced players. Scum need to be worried about dying, since they only have 3 members in a game such as this, as opposed to the towns 9 members.
Phoenix/Roja: I don't have much read on Phoenix due to lurking. I know early on I thought Phoenix looked to be very productive and saying things that were condusive of a townie mindset. I did note one time in which Phoenix said that he was unvoting, because he didn't think voting for someone was productive. This was odd to me since there is no reason nor anything productive relating to reasonless unvoting. Overall since replacing in, I don't see anything that Roja has done that screams scum to me. I know Nom thinks Roja is scum (quite tunnel-visoned I might add), but I don't see it personally.
RW/SpotofPrey: Though I find the early points on RW to be slightly scummy, I didn't see anything he was doing as needing to cause things to escalate as quickly as they were. Frankly the most damning thing about RW was the way he replaced out when pressure came about. And to be honest, the accusations against Spot being that he is too nice and doesn't express opinions strong enough are pretty much wrong imo. If you read Spot you will see that he tries to be nice and thoughtful, and isn't going to vote until he feels it is absolutely necessary and warranted.
The Minister/ Toastboy: The minister gave me zero to go on. And from what I've seen of Toastboy, he is playing pretty much a carbon copy of his town play. He is emotional, slightly irrational at times, but expresses his views and isn't afraid to go after who he thinks is scum, and then prononce them as "obvscum...etc, while using such things as HOS, TOS, SuperdupercadillacOS, and the like".
WrathofDog: Easily the second most scummy player in this game. He lurks and posts almost zero content all the time. In a part of the game long past the random phase, WoD leaves a senseless vote on Phoenix for quite some time, and has proceeded to do almost zero in the way of scumhunting or opinion-forming, instead choosing to lurk and barn random people/wagons.
Here are a few posts that caught my eye in the last phase of my reread.
Alpha Werewolf hasn't actually done much to set off my scumdar. I think the comments regarding him as Spot of Watersmelon's partner are reaching quite hard.
After re-reading RW and considering the pro-town way that Spot has been playing, I'm willing to drop my pseudo-vote on him. I'll be keeping an eye on him despite this, as the replace-out was ridiculously scummy no matter what the mod says.
Dragoon and Minister haven't posted enough for me to have anything resembling an opinion of either of them.
I really like Tolor's first post, and hope he continues to contribute in this manner.
Silo9 seems also to be making a real effort to contribute, I especially like his last post.
I dislike Master of Warcraft's play so far, he seems to be trying to use WIFOM, to make himself seem more genuine, by openly questioning his courses of action. That being said, there isn't really anything really voteworthy, I think it could just be a newer player flailing around a bit. At least he hasn't requested replacement...
His horrific slandering of my nationality aside, I'd like to see Phoenix33 post more. What he has posted is uninspiring to say the best, leaning scum on him. Vote can stay for now...
Goatrevolt seems to be thinking outside the box more than any other player, and so far appears to be solidly pro-town.
Draknodred absolutely screams enthusiastic town. He's been actively posting, and scumhunting as best he can. I cannot foresee any scenario where he can be scum, right now.
FearMyGenius has been rather quiet lately. Could go either way.
Wrath_of_DoG is undoubtedly the most townie player in the game.
Basically WoD's suspicions are of two lurkers, and the most active wagon at the time. After so much lurk this isn't the sort of thing that should be considered productive from a townie.
I'm terribly sorry that I've been quiet. I've been reading the thread, but I've had no time to post. I've been nose deep in my personal life lately, and it will continue through Sunday or Monday I'd venture to guess (As a side note, I'm so glad to be nearly out of high school. High School Drama is so incredibly pointless.) Anyway, I've got a few things to say, but I don't have time for a huge post. Mostly just changes to my scumlist.
phoenix33 - Not a single post since my last one. I don't like it one bit.
spotofprey - I'm still not thrilled with him, but the more he posts, the more I'm not really sure that he's scum. He's asking all the right questions. But I still have a bad feeling about him. He's staying high on my scumlist.
Dragoon26 ced395 - glad to see he replaced out, despite the fact that it's yet another replacement. I really like Ced's one post though. He's not off my list, simply because of lingering suspicions, but he's moved all the way to the bottom.
Alpha Werewolf - He's the one that I've become the most suspicious of. I his posts are almost entirely "Well, the statistics/mafia theory says..." (see 209 ,214, 217, 226, 228, I think I've made my point.) Plus, I'm not entirely comfortable with 219. "(I have no way of knowing)" That sounds more like trying to convince us otherwise than it does reminding us of how Mafia works. And he seems to be avoiding the question in 224. Though he does eventually answer them.
Tolor - He doesn't have any new posts either, so I'm still suspicious. But there are people who look a whole lot more scummy at this point.
Toastboy - Loving him. Certainly town.
So, my new scumlist, from most to least scummy, is:
Alpha Werewolf
phoenix33
spotofprey
Tolor
ced395
These are the sorts of things that should make people look at Nom more. At this time the only scum list MoW can come up with is the most active wagon, and everyone who has lurked/replaced. What I think should be drawn from this is the quite obvious conjecture that MoW was not nor was he ever scum-hunting, hoping instead to float along and in his newb scum mind, pick out easy lynch targets in lurkers.
First: I agree that if you are left living today, that using your ability would be ok.
Second: I don't agree with your reasoning.. You "probably" would kill WoD when all you have on him now is a FoS. No vote. Are you saying that WoD is most likely to be scum thus you are choosing him?
Third: IF you are a One shot Vig, after you shoot you really arn't that much of a threat to the mafia. Why do you think they would kill you overnight?
Ok Back this statement up with linked posts. Even if you do die a townie, your info you post would be TRUTH to be looking back on.
So take the WIFOM out. Currently you appear to be looking at WoD and Silo as scum, why? What posts about what they said make you think this way?
If the scum know you are going to shoot tonight, why would they kill you? (When they can try to lynch you during the day instead). I think you have brought up a good topic to discuss.
So what are everyone's feelings about having Alpha shoot someone tonight?
I personally think Alpha should neither tell us if he is shooting, or who he will shoot. I feel as if this is the sort of information that is best not put out in the open for the scum to work with. I am a bit disheartened that you tried what may be a subtle fish here, and am also disheartened that someone posted who/what they though Alpha should do in response (ced iirc).
I not sure if I completely like this, since I still think you're scummy, but you do have a solid point here.
Vote: Alpha_Warewolf
I think that's lynch -1, so if anyone has anything important to say, do it before he gets hammered.
This is terrible. If you wanted Alpha to say something before getting hammered, then why vote? I think what Nom is doing here is trying to set up the hammerer for a second mislynch tomorrow. If Nom turns up scum, I believe that we can find the other two scum already voting for Alpha at the time this post was made.
I'm not seeing the case on Spot. If you want to lynch him because he's RW, I can understand that and might be willing to do it, but I haven't found his actions so far to be suspicious.
So basically, if you read this, you can tell that Nom is both condemning the case on Spot, but also lending support to a Spot wagon. I don't see town mentality in that at all. I think Nom is trying to both usher people toward spot, while being able to safely watch from a distance and say "I told you guys not to do that" when Spot is mislynched.
I totally agree with what you said about Nom, cheese (and if you look back on my posts, I have been suspecting him for a while, placing him second in my list).
Also:
Quote from Cheese, on Toast »
The Minister/ Toastboy: The minister gave me zero to go on. And from what I've seen of Toastboy, he is playing pretty much a carbon copy of his town play. He is emotional, slightly irrational at times, but expresses his views and isn't afraid to go after who he thinks is scum, and then prononce them as "obvscum...etc, while using such things as HOS, TOS, SuperdupercadillacOS, and the like".
I like how you now turn and attack the person critical of Toastboy. Trying to protect your scumbuddy, mayhaps?
You DO see my point against WoD where he "Magicly" starts seeing things I have been talking about for a while now yea? Toastboy has constantly been on the fence and NOW once someone other then Alpha has been focused on he sees something..
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Mr. Consortium. What games of mine have you read to establish your meta on me?
I have read your town performances in Doomsday, Amistarian, and Basic 1. I think your play here has been quite similar. Would you say the meta argument is wrong?
I would like for you to explain in full detail why you are in support of the Alpha wagon. I would like this explanation to include things such as why you think Alpha is a better lynch that Spot, the other top target at the moment. I would also like your thoughts on the other players, especially those under pressure (Nom, Roja, Toastboy). To me it would appear you aren't even trying to find the scum, so much as trying to get a lynch.
MasterofWarcraft/Nom Anor: I think not enough people are looking at Nom, and I think we should. I think due to Master's early scumminess, Nom should be atleast scrutinized a little more than he/she is/was. Early on Master comes to post during the moments right after the random phase has ended, and informs us that he doesn't want to be labeled a lurker, but then says vote stands.............on a random vote. To me this was a good way for Master to avoid the lurker label, while throwing out what is likely a lazy newb scum attempt to look productive.
This is understandable. From his posts, he was clearly deathly afraid of lurkers, so being afraid of being labeled one is understandable. Add a lack of knowing how to post content, and you arrive at what seems like nonsense.
Then his next couple of posts seem to fall along the lines of "Oh, I was
going to say such and such, but Steve already said it /barn". Then upon reread, uses the replacements as an excuse not to say anything, and then calls out lurkers. In my experience, newb scum often try to set up the lurker mislynch as a good way to nab someone day 1. Then he later says he doesn't want to say anything for fear it will make him look suspicious.
Basic mafia player psychology says that as a newb town, one would be goal oriented, and excited to be looking/finding scum.
A newb scum will be the one worried about looking suspicious, for fear they will be unable to defend themselves, especially in a game such as this with more experienced players. Scum need to be worried about dying, since they only have 3 members in a game such as this, as opposed to the towns 9 members.
I don't know what kind of newb town you were, but when I was new, I was scared to death of being lynched. Newb town is almost never "goal oriented" they have their hands full not getting chopped to pieces. And they more than likely will fail at it.
I not sure if I completely like this, since I still think you're scummy, but you do have a solid point here.
Vote: Alpha_Warewolf
I think that's lynch -1, so if anyone has anything important to say, do it before he gets hammered.
This is terrible. If you wanted Alpha to say something before getting hammered, then why vote? I think what Nom is doing here is trying to set up the hammerer for a second mislynch tomorrow. If Nom turns up scum, I believe that we can find the other two scum already voting for Alpha at the time this post was made.
I clearly said "anyone." There are many important things someone might want to say before the day ends, and giving everyone fair warning since, I don't know, this is a newb game, might be a good idea.
Set up the hammerer for a second mislynch? On the contrary, I was just trying to get Alpha lynched.
I'm not seeing the case on Spot. If you want to lynch him because he's RW, I can understand that and might be willing to do it, but I haven't found his actions so far to be suspicious.
So basically, if you read this, you can tell that Nom is both condemning the case on Spot, but also lending support to a Spot wagon. I don't see town mentality in that at all. I think Nom is trying to both usher people toward spot, while being able to safely watch from a distance and say "I told you guys not to do that" when Spot is mislynched.
I was telling them their arguments on spot were not convincing to me. The only thing I find scummy about spot is his performance as RW, which is, honestly, probably enough. And I like how I'm trying to usher people to spot away from my OTHER mislynch on Alpha. I'm epic at getting people mislynched.
Oh, and
@Goat:
Although I'm still not sure what I think about you, I've decided that you actually weren't trying to bus Alpha. Even though it really felt like it to me, I realized you'd have to be a complete jerk to try and bus your newb scummbuddy in a basic game. That would be like the king of jerkiness, so I don't think that's what you were trying to do.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I have read your town performances in Doomsday, Amistarian, and Basic 1. I think your play here has been quite similar. Would you say the meta argument is wrong?
No, your meta is correct. I was just curious how someone with 4 posts seems to know me so well.
Bussing your buddies doesn't make someone a jerk. If Alpha and Goat were scum, it's perfectly alright (and probably hugely beneficial for them) for Goat to bus Alpha if he's going down anyway.
On the contrary, for an experienced player to bus a newish player in a basic game is just being a complete $#$^$. If the game is for the sake of the new players, bussing them is just plain messed up.
I don't know if nom is town or scum. But I'd like to point out this type of behavior is his standard modus operandi.
Court Mafia: Day 1, hatch plan to KILL EVERYONE ELSE IN A SINGLE NIGHT, when the plan only allows him to hit 11 random players, ATTEMPTS TO FIRE ANYHOW (Roleblocked).
In other words....Nom is an impulsive player who doesn't think about planning long-term or listening to others. I wouldn't be surprised if he was town. At all.
I would like for you to explain in full detail why you are in support of the Alpha wagon. I would like this explanation to include things such as why you think Alpha is a better lynch that Spot, the other top target at the moment. I would also like your thoughts on the other players, especially those under pressure (Nom, Roja, Toastboy). To me it would appear you aren't even trying to find the scum, so much as trying to get a lynch.
Have you actually read the thread?
I was definitely in support of the alpha wagon though after the post I called Toastboy out on I don't like it so much. This should have been obvious if you'd read the thread.
I'll re-read spot today and come back to you on that one. I've been getting Town reads from him ever since he replaced RW, but if there's that much suspicion on him, especially from Goat, whose play has been solidly town this game, it deserves a second look. My gut is notoriously crap, from previous experience.
Nom Anor is a player I always read as scum, so until there is something concrete to condemn him I'll have to say I'm neutral on him.
I have nothing against Roja, other than the fact that he replaced the mildly scummy Phoenix.
Read the thread if you want my opinion on Toastboy. You won't have to read back far.
@FMJ - Nice try. Ande voted for Spot before Ced caused the wagon, and Ced made a good analysis. You were just tacking on your vote to the wagon.
Spot was on my top-three scumlist in post 471, eleven posts before goat first voted him. This isn't an unprecedented leap of suspicion on my part; it's just me voting for another person I think is scum. I didn't mean to imply that Ande or ced were wagoning; I just wanted to call attention to the fact that you're clearly not reading me objectively. You've decided that I'm scum, so when I do something, it's a scumtell. When Ande did the same thing (voting spot without adding anything to the case), you ignore it.
Quote from Nom »
Quote from Me! »
Are you serious? Nothing about spot voting Alpha while saying he agrees with his PBPA, or justifying the vote by saying "might as well get on with the game" pings your scumdar?
Not really, no.
...
You must be some kind of psychic porn star, because you're blowing my mind. Spot's vote rational is so completely fake, how do you not see it?
What better mad mischief than to swap around everyone's hats? I see that you have no answer. And I am not at all surprised, for indeed there is no finer mischief than a swapping around of hats.
I'd be happy with a toast or alpha lynch, but the alpha one is the only one that seems possible to happen today. I'm content just to point out his scummy behavior and wait for tomorrow.
How do you interpret this quote in that light then?
Right now, I am in favour of an Alpha lynch. I will decide on spot later, but if it comes to that, I think either WoD or FMJ are optimal targets for shooting.
I have read your town performances in Doomsday, Amistarian, and Basic 1.
Out of curiosity, how long have you been lurking before signing up to play? Or did you read all of these games in response to replacing into this game?
...take out the slanted language, and you end up with what I percieve to be my town playstyle.
How do you perceive your scum playstyle?
In other news, spotofprey is at lynch -3 and I would very much like for him to claim whenever he gets back. This should have happened way earlier in the day as well, before Roger Watersmelon got replaced. Several players are getting side tracked right now and spotofprey appears to be trying to lurk to the deadline.
Spot is scum. He sees that Alpha is being wagoned and will likely end up being lynched. He makes up a statement about how Alpha is showing an organic townie thought process. At this point, Spot's motivation is so he looks good when Alpha gets lynched and isn't scum. The Alpha wagon stalls. Spot comes in and votes him citing a neutral read on Alpha. At this point, Spot's motivation is to ensure that Alpha is lynched. Most likely, he simply forgot that he had declared Alpha as a townie earlier.
You see, as scum, you don't actually believe your suspicions. So you have to be constantly mindful of what you have prevoiusly said or what stances you have previously taken on players. Spot got careless, and either forgot, or willfully ignored that he had previously taken the stance that Alpha was town. He proved the pure insincerity of his suspicions on Alpha when he voted him and said he was neutral on him, after he had previously declared that Alpha was displaying a townie thought process.
If spot was a townie, there would be a reason for him to change his mind on Alpha. There would have had to be something that Alpha did between the post where Spot said he was displaying an organic townie thought process and the post where he listed him as a neutral and voted him. What took place during that period to change spot's mind? Alpha created a case on WoD. Aha! But spot agreed with that case.
There was nothing to change his mind. Town players don't change their mind for no reason. Scum players can change their mind based on their own goals. For example, spot could easily have changed his mind because his motivation changed from wanting to look good when Alpha was lynched to wanting to ensure that Alpha actually was lynched.
He should claim. He should be lynched before deadline.
[off topic]Also, Nom, hypothetically I would bus a scumbuddy in a basic game. I play to win. I feel like the game becomes less meaningful and less fun if people aren't playing to win and are imposing additional fabricated rules of "behavior" on themselves. As a new scum player, I would feel cheated out of a game if we lost because my experienced partner played poorly on purpose for my sake. What's the fun of the game if people are playing worse on purpose?[/off topic]
But anyway, let's stick to deciding our lynch. Has anyone spotted someone scummy enough for us to prey on?
Nom, bussing your scumbuddy is a powerful scum tool. Why would you not do it, especially if your scumbuddy is going down anyway?
goat's behavioural analysis here looks spot-on (pun unintended). I'll be glad with either a spot lynch (I have no real new information on this - goat said it all) or a WoD lynch, which I've explained already. For now though, I think the case on spot is even more solid than the case on WoD (ironically, most of it is mine :P)
Unvote Vote Spot
Additionally, Nom, thank you for strengthening my scum read on you even more.
SoP's dismissive attitude towards the case on him, and his continued failure to answer Goat's original point should be pretty telling.
I'm being dismissive because its a pile of garbage. Opportunistic Goat is jumping on whatever fancies himself at the moment and uses his "clout" to push around the newer players in the game. Look at how preachy his posts are. I have responded to his main point, you and him are just choosing to reject it.
Rejecting rational explanations for behavior - not very constructive behavior, is it?
Spot is scum. He sees that Alpha is being wagoned and will likely end up being lynched. He makes up a statement about how Alpha is showing an organic townie thought process. At this point, Spot's motivation is so he looks good when Alpha gets lynched and isn't scum. The Alpha wagon stalls. Spot comes in and votes him citing a neutral read on Alpha. At this point, Spot's motivation is to ensure that Alpha is lynched. Most likely, he simply forgot that he had declared Alpha as a townie earlier.
My comment about Alpha's thought process happened soon after I replaced in. Quit trying to make it seem that I had a "reversal" of opinion within a couple of hours.
You are correct, my motivation was to see Alpha lynched. The deadline was approaching, with a couple of fresh replacements in the middle of a reread and some other players firmly entrenched in whatever random case they had constructed. Day 1 no lynch after a Day 1 of this length is just terrible. Could I have said this when I voted? Yes, but in my experience, using established mafia tactics and paradigms in a newb game usually results in the players not used to that paradigm leads to that players being strung up. Hell, look at pretty much everything I did in the first couple of days after replacing in. A couple of people kept calling my normally accepted Mafia practices scummy behavior, where in a normal game they would be fine.
Could I have waited to cast my vote on Alpha? Probably. But with my own sporadic posting (usually due to lack of time) and the really weird replacement pattern of the game, I didn't want to leave it to chance.
I also know you wouldn't admit this, but there quite a few reaches in your post. Why are you weaving such tales? Why not leave it to the facts instead of sugar coating everything so that the other players are not manipulated?
You see, as scum, you don't actually believe your suspicions. So you have to be constantly mindful of what you have prevoiusly said or what stances you have previously taken on players. Spot got careless, and either forgot, or willfully ignored that he had previously taken the stance that Alpha was town. He proved the pure insincerity of his suspicions on Alpha when he voted him and said he was neutral on him, after he had previously declared that Alpha was displaying a townie thought process.
More reaching.
If spot was a townie, there would be a reason for him to change his mind on Alpha. There would have had to be something that Alpha did between the post where Spot said he was displaying an organic townie thought process and the post where he listed him as a neutral and voted him. What took place during that period to change spot's mind? Alpha created a case on WoD. Aha! But spot agreed with that case.
There was nothing to change his mind. Town players don't change their mind for no reason. Scum players can change their mind based on their own goals. For example, spot could easily have changed his mind because his motivation changed from wanting to look good when Alpha was lynched to wanting to ensure that Alpha actually was lynched.
He should claim. He should be lynched before deadline.
The entire sequence where Alpha basically gave up and resigned himself to being lynched didn't sit well with me. Stuff like that is really powerful with less experienced players because it seems genuine when it usually isn't. Only bad players or bored players give up as town - Alpha doesn't strike me as either. This alone wasn't enough to vote him. The possibility of a no lynch drove me to vote him.
Apparently SoP can't post when it's near the deadline and he's under pressure.
Mod, could we have a prod on SoP please? It's been 3 days since his last post and we're kinda waiting for him.
I'm really not trying to be flip about it or anything, but I haven't posted much for the past 4 weeks. This is nothing new. But since you asked so nicely, I'll claim here so you don't have to wait another 3 days. I am an Irish Goat, and besides being very tasty to trolls and humans, I have no abilities.
I'm being dismissive because its a pile of garbage. Opportunistic Goat is jumping on whatever fancies himself at the moment and uses his "clout" to push around the newer players in the game. Look at how preachy his posts are. I have responded to his main point, you and him are just choosing to reject it.
Rejecting rational explanations for behavior - not very constructive behavior, is it?
Ah, yes, I am throwing around my clout to push around the new players. Let's examine your wagon. There is Ced, who is not new. There's Andelijah, who has been playing mafia longer than I have. I'm not sure how experienced FMJ is, but he played in a newb game with me like a year ago when I was still fairly new, so he's been around long enough.
I guess I'm throwing around my clout to get Alpha on board. Shucks.
My comment about Alpha's thought process happened soon after I replaced in. Quit trying to make it seem that I had a "reversal" of opinion within a couple of hours.
Maybe you want to go back and check on that. You replaced in the 10th. Your "thought process" post on Alpha happened the 29th. In fact, let's look exactly at the series of events. I think it will tell us some clues.
Post 343: Alpha claims 1-shot Vig. Post 384: Your analysis of his claim is that he is reflecting an organic, townie thought process. Post 473: Your next post is simply you saying that you will get caught up. Post 482: And here is where you say he's a neutral read and vote him.
You only posted once between your drastic change in opinion, and that post was simply a "I'm going to catch up" post. So your claim that I'm ignoring facts and your change in behavior happened over this extended period of time is strictly false. Your change in behavior happened with only 1 post of yours in between, and both occurred after Alpha claimed.
I also know you wouldn't admit this, but there quite a few reaches in your post. Why are you weaving such tales? Why not leave it to the facts instead of sugar coating everything so that the other players are not manipulated?
I'm not reaching. I am weaving tales though. I'm weaving a tale of how I believe you to be scum and what I believe your scum motivation behind your actions to be. I'm not manipulating anyone. I've provided the facts (your change in opinion on Alpha) and provided my interpretation of those facts (you are scum).
You've made some strong accusations here. You've accused me of rejecting rational explanations for behavior as well as manipulating players into voting you. Is there a reason you haven't followed through at all? If you believe I'm rejecting rational explanations and manipulating people, then wouldn't it follow that you believe me to be scum?
The entire sequence where Alpha basically gave up and resigned himself to being lynched didn't sit well with me. Stuff like that is really powerful with less experienced players because it seems genuine when it usually isn't. Only bad players or bored players give up as town - Alpha doesn't strike me as either. This alone wasn't enough to vote him. The possibility of a no lynch drove me to vote him.
This isn't the first time you've discussed that. Let's look at the other time you do so.
A_W seems town to me. His reversal from "lynch me for information" to now "don't lynch me, the information wouldn't do anything anyway" seems very organic and reflects a thoughtful townie (yet newb) mindset.
I am an Irish Goat, and besides being very tasty to trolls and humans, I have no abilities.
I do not have any nationality associated with my Goat, and I'm surprised spot claims to be one of Irish descent. It looks quite a bit like a fake claim.
This should be easy to clear up, though. Everyone should note only whether or not their role PM gives them a nationality. Don't claim anything about your role or lack of role or anything else. Just note yes or no whether you have a fancy nationality to your goatedness.
Vote: spotofprey
Salvation Mafia Clan
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last updated 03/23/11
My blog.
Alpha Werewolf - 5 (Wrath_of_DoG, FereMiyJeenyus, Toastboy, Nom_Anor, spotofprey)
spotofprey - 1 (goatrevolt, andelijah, ced395)
andelijah - 1 (Slio9)
Wrath_of_Dog - 1 (Alpha Werewolf)
@Ged: Silo9 should also be Cheeseburger Consortium
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So first you are hedging your bets, setting up for a quick switch onto Spot if you can't get alpha lynched.
Then you say you're in favour of an alpha lynch, then you say that he should shoot? As Ande said, that is very very suspicious. While I'd love to support you, since you want to see Alpha lynched, that post betrays the fact that you already know Alpha is town.
Alpha can wait.
Unvote, Vote Toastboy.
I think I'd be happier with an alpha lynch, so I'm going to keep my vote on him, but I'm happy to move to a Toastboy lynch, since it seems unlikely at this point alpha's going to get lynched.
Alpha can then fire tonight to prove his ability, if he has it. If not, we can lynch him tomorrow.
I also second the call for deadline extension.
Keep this in mind. If deadline is reached, and we don't have a clear majority, we no lynch. Other than maybe Draknodred ;), I'm sure we can all agree that no lynching is failure.
I think an awesome plan would be to lynch spotofprey, who is almost certainly scum. Afterward, Alpha can shoot WoD, who looks quite a bit like a scum buddy. He's done typical scum buddy things like, agree with the case on RW but not vote him, followed by suspiciously declaring spot town with no underlying rationale. Perhaps a more recent example would be the time he tried to get a wagon on Toastboy rolling while also completely ignoring spot.
Upon completion of the above objective, we would then seek to examine players like Andelijah. He replaced Tolor, the player who didn't really take a solid stance on spot and instead pushed a MoW case when the spot wagon was at it's highest point. Or perhaps a better suspect would be Slio9, who repeatedly asserted that the case on spot was good, but was just so hesitant to actually place a vote on him, opting instead to jump right onto the MoW wagon that sprung up.
Anyone else game for lynching some scum? Spot into WoD into Slio9 for the triple play?
Which can be roughly translated into:
"Let's lynch Toastboy. He'll end up being town. Tonight we will roleblock/no-kill to frame Alpha, and then we can follow the Toastboy mislynch with an Alpha mislynch"
If by tommorow there isn't an extension (deadline's in two days) I'll switch my vote over to spot. However, what WoD did made him a much better scum candidate in my eyes than he ever was. Nom's agreement is very suspicious too.
I don't really see what he found wrong with Toast's post.
My blog.
My blog.
The issue I have with this is the bolded part, because a little later you said this regarding WoDs comment on Toastboy
You go from saying that A_W will shoot WoD with no problem to him being screwed over by the mafia. How the mafia only messes with the kill if there was a lynch on Toastboy?
I think you're skewing what I said, he wasn't scummy because he talked more, I just actually had something to go off of on him while at the time I didn't feel the same way with WoD.
My argument or his? His is weak, mine is just stating an opinion on why he would go with something like that.
"It's quite clear I still think Alpha is scum"
"Your post betrays you know Alpha is town"
Those posts really fit well together.
Wha? How does the first section at all suggest that Alpha shoots WoD no problem? Saying Alpha should use his shot on WoD is not the same as saying Alpha's shot on WoD will succeed.
The 2nd section was simply me pointing out WoD's motivation as scum.
Fair enough, just trying to get a more clear wording.
Votecount 10
Alpha Werewolf - 4 (FereMiyJeenyus, Toastboy, Nom_Anor, spotofprey)
spotofprey - 3 (goatrevolt, andelijah, ced395)
Toastboy - 1 (Wrath_of_DoG)
Wrath_of_Dog - 1 (Alpha Werewolf)
Deadline extended to Thursday, June 18th.
Unvote
Vote: spotofprey, putting him at L-3
Other than that, I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said, so I'll just barn the following:
Alpha's alignment is apparently Schrodinger-ian: simultaneously scum and not scum. I'm feeling better about him, myself.
Alternatively, if alpha can shoot someone tonight,(probably me, since I seem to be drawing a lot of suspicion for some reason :-/) that will no doubt confirm him. I'm not happy about being killed, but I suppose better me than someone at random who may not be vanilla.
First, you need to learn the definition between lurking and inactivity. I was genuinely busy - its not like I was constantly reading the thread and refused to post.
I backed off on MoW because no one shared my suspicions. This gives me 2 outcomes - either I'm wrong and no one else sees him as scummy, or everyone is too focused on their own pet targets that they don't care. I'm not as arrogant as some players seem to be - I could always be wrong on my reads. I don't think they are wrong, but I also don't think they are 100% mortal locks. I'm not the type of player to throw a temper tantrum and refuse to come out of the sandbox because the other players won't play with me.
I have a similar conundrum with Alpha. I saw many town reads from him in the early game, but haven't seen any recently (pretty much since he's been under real pressure). I'm not saying that my read is 100% accurate - it may not be. We gain nothing by me stubbornly keeping my vote on MoW as the game grinds to a Day 1 no lynch. I'm only being attacked because some people can't remember who they actually find scummy so they jump at shadows.
Usually posts this hypocritical are separated by more time and posts.
For goatrevolt's initial outrage, andelijah stole most of my thunder. The only thing I would add would be what I wrote above to ced.
Funny. What do you classify as "early in the game?" Because your post where you said he was showing an "organic townie thought process" was pretty late in the day. In fact, it was after the wagon was already going and after he had already claimed. Since then, Alpha hasn't really done much either way, except create a case you agreed with on WoD.
Maybe my math is pretty poor, but this equation doesn't seem to make much sense to me: "Town read + created case you agree with = neutral."
There's a difference. WoD's post is along the lines of "if he's town, then let's next go for another player." That's a nice way to set up two consecutive mislynches. My post is "if he's scum, here's his buddy" which is not setting up consecutive mislynches (not to mention the fact that one is a vig shot, not a lynch, anyway).
However im back and have done a minor skim of things. I'll read in detail when I get a moment too and post my thoughts..
One thing that caught my eye was WoD's comment about Drak.. being Obv town or something.. More when I get time.
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I only would like to mention that Toast has been "in the middle" before. This is just yet ANOTHER post where he just wants to be right.
I thought it was odd that NOW he comments on how flip floppy Toastboy is.
I actually think this makes some sence. Of corse im going to have to see how Silo reacted too the other two, but i'm ok with this.
Well if you did lie about your ability we will lynch you...
Why NOW would you comment on something I thought was already known about Toast? And any reason for the smiley? I don't associate them with you.
Feels outta place
Why do you like this? Please explain it to me better.
Question to Spot: Do you think Alpha is still scum? And what about WoD/Toastboy?
Also, in regards to the if-I-lied-you'll-lynch-me: But if I'm town and he's (or will be) sure of it, why would my lying matter?
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I like how you now turn and attack the person critical of Toastboy. Trying to protect your scumbuddy, mayhaps?
You forgot to note ande's wagoning, and ced is also voting for spot.
Are you serious? Nothing about spot voting Alpha while saying he agrees with his PBPA, or justifying the vote by saying "might as well get on with the game" pings your scumdar?
Surely there are more wagons than spotofprey's. Why didn't you bring up everyone who's voted but not been first on the wagon?
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Not really, no.
I'd be happy with a toast or alpha lynch, but the alpha one is the only one that seems possible to happen today. I'm content just to point out his scummy behavior and wait for tomorrow.
Alpha Werewolf: Early on I took notes noting how he quickly came under pressure, then tried to have things slip back toward randomness, more than likely to remove pressure from himself and get the town to "move on" so to speak. To be honest I stopped keeping any sort of notations for everything he did that was scummy, as it was too much work due to the severely large number of scummy things he did. I do think the way in which he gave up, then promptly declared vig was silly in its scumminess. To me defeatism like that is most often a scum move.
Tolor/ande: Seemed townie to me early on, and andelijah has done nothing to sway me from thinking that.
Dragoon26/ced: Early on I noticed how Dragoon used players replacing as an excuse not to comment on anything going on. I found this awkward and a good way for Dragoon to lurk. In another Dragoon game I've seen he was much more upfront and out in the open as a townie. Ced hasn't done much of not for me, but he does seem a bit unfocused in his anlysis. He doesn't seem intent on finding scum so much as pointing out eveyones scum tells and trying to paint them in a lynchable light.
FereMiyJeenyus: I really don't have a very good read on FMJ. There are times he seems to be in the right directions, but there are other times in which FMJ appears to be doing things from a scum mindset. One thing that set me off early was when FMJ said he wasn't voting to reach lynches, but voting for pressure. To me there is no reason to vote for someone you don't want to see lynched, as really voting just to get peoples roles/info/etc is like an elaborately hidden fishing move.
Draknodred: I could go on for days about how scummy Drak has been. I'm not sure whether or not I'm ready for him to get a noob pass either. I think we can give him one at least for today, but not for too long, as his play as a "newb town" has been uninspiring at best.
GoatRevolt: From what I've read of GoatRevolt, this game fits with his town meta, and overall most posts I see from him fit a townie perspective. If I were to post a town/scum list, GoatRevolt would be near the top of the town portion.
MasterofWarcraft/Nom Anor: I think not enough people are looking at Nom, and I think we should. I think due to Master's early scumminess, Nom should be atleast scrutinized a little more than he/she is/was. Early on Master comes to post during the moments right after the random phase has ended, and informs us that he doesn't want to be labeled a lurker, but then says vote stands.............on a random vote. To me this was a good way for Master to avoid the lurker label, while throwing out what is likely a lazy newb scum attempt to look productive. Then his next couple of posts seem to fall along the lines of "Oh, I was going to say such and such, but Steve already said it /barn". Then upon reread, uses the replacements as an excuse not to say anything, and then calls out lurkers. In my experience, newb scum often try to set up the lurker mislynch as a good way to nab someone day 1. Then he later says he doesn't want to say anything for fear it will make him look suspicious. Basic mafia player psychology says that as a newb town, one would be goal oriented, and excited to be looking/finding scum. A newb scum will be the one worried about looking suspicious, for fear they will be unable to defend themselves, especially in a game such as this with more experienced players. Scum need to be worried about dying, since they only have 3 members in a game such as this, as opposed to the towns 9 members.
Phoenix/Roja: I don't have much read on Phoenix due to lurking. I know early on I thought Phoenix looked to be very productive and saying things that were condusive of a townie mindset. I did note one time in which Phoenix said that he was unvoting, because he didn't think voting for someone was productive. This was odd to me since there is no reason nor anything productive relating to reasonless unvoting. Overall since replacing in, I don't see anything that Roja has done that screams scum to me. I know Nom thinks Roja is scum (quite tunnel-visoned I might add), but I don't see it personally.
RW/SpotofPrey: Though I find the early points on RW to be slightly scummy, I didn't see anything he was doing as needing to cause things to escalate as quickly as they were. Frankly the most damning thing about RW was the way he replaced out when pressure came about. And to be honest, the accusations against Spot being that he is too nice and doesn't express opinions strong enough are pretty much wrong imo. If you read Spot you will see that he tries to be nice and thoughtful, and isn't going to vote until he feels it is absolutely necessary and warranted.
The Minister/ Toastboy: The minister gave me zero to go on. And from what I've seen of Toastboy, he is playing pretty much a carbon copy of his town play. He is emotional, slightly irrational at times, but expresses his views and isn't afraid to go after who he thinks is scum, and then prononce them as "obvscum...etc, while using such things as HOS, TOS, SuperdupercadillacOS, and the like".
WrathofDog: Easily the second most scummy player in this game. He lurks and posts almost zero content all the time. In a part of the game long past the random phase, WoD leaves a senseless vote on Phoenix for quite some time, and has proceeded to do almost zero in the way of scumhunting or opinion-forming, instead choosing to lurk and barn random people/wagons.
Here are a few posts that caught my eye in the last phase of my reread.
Basically WoD's suspicions are of two lurkers, and the most active wagon at the time. After so much lurk this isn't the sort of thing that should be considered productive from a townie.
These are the sorts of things that should make people look at Nom more. At this time the only scum list MoW can come up with is the most active wagon, and everyone who has lurked/replaced. What I think should be drawn from this is the quite obvious conjecture that MoW was not nor was he ever scum-hunting, hoping instead to float along and in his newb scum mind, pick out easy lynch targets in lurkers.
I personally think Alpha should neither tell us if he is shooting, or who he will shoot. I feel as if this is the sort of information that is best not put out in the open for the scum to work with. I am a bit disheartened that you tried what may be a subtle fish here, and am also disheartened that someone posted who/what they though Alpha should do in response (ced iirc).
This is terrible. If you wanted Alpha to say something before getting hammered, then why vote? I think what Nom is doing here is trying to set up the hammerer for a second mislynch tomorrow. If Nom turns up scum, I believe that we can find the other two scum already voting for Alpha at the time this post was made.
I think more content or explanations from you would be awesome really. I'm 100% more keen on you doing that.
So basically, if you read this, you can tell that Nom is both condemning the case on Spot, but also lending support to a Spot wagon. I don't see town mentality in that at all. I think Nom is trying to both usher people toward spot, while being able to safely watch from a distance and say "I told you guys not to do that" when Spot is mislynched.
Vote: Nom Anor
Also:
My blog.
You DO see my point against WoD where he "Magicly" starts seeing things I have been talking about for a while now yea? Toastboy has constantly been on the fence and NOW once someone other then Alpha has been focused on he sees something..
I have read your town performances in Doomsday, Amistarian, and Basic 1. I think your play here has been quite similar. Would you say the meta argument is wrong?
I would like for you to explain in full detail why you are in support of the Alpha wagon. I would like this explanation to include things such as why you think Alpha is a better lynch that Spot, the other top target at the moment. I would also like your thoughts on the other players, especially those under pressure (Nom, Roja, Toastboy). To me it would appear you aren't even trying to find the scum, so much as trying to get a lynch.
This is understandable. From his posts, he was clearly deathly afraid of lurkers, so being afraid of being labeled one is understandable. Add a lack of knowing how to post content, and you arrive at what seems like nonsense.
I don't know what kind of newb town you were, but when I was new, I was scared to death of being lynched. Newb town is almost never "goal oriented" they have their hands full not getting chopped to pieces. And they more than likely will fail at it.
I clearly said "anyone." There are many important things someone might want to say before the day ends, and giving everyone fair warning since, I don't know, this is a newb game, might be a good idea.
Set up the hammerer for a second mislynch? On the contrary, I was just trying to get Alpha lynched.
I was telling them their arguments on spot were not convincing to me. The only thing I find scummy about spot is his performance as RW, which is, honestly, probably enough. And I like how I'm trying to usher people to spot away from my OTHER mislynch on Alpha. I'm epic at getting people mislynched.
Oh, and
@Goat:
Although I'm still not sure what I think about you, I've decided that you actually weren't trying to bus Alpha. Even though it really felt like it to me, I realized you'd have to be a complete jerk to try and bus your newb scummbuddy in a basic game. That would be like the king of jerkiness, so I don't think that's what you were trying to do.
No, your meta is correct. I was just curious how someone with 4 posts seems to know me so well.
On the contrary, for an experienced player to bus a newish player in a basic game is just being a complete $#$^$. If the game is for the sake of the new players, bussing them is just plain messed up.
I was definitely in support of the alpha wagon though after the post I called Toastboy out on I don't like it so much. This should have been obvious if you'd read the thread.
I'll re-read spot today and come back to you on that one. I've been getting Town reads from him ever since he replaced RW, but if there's that much suspicion on him, especially from Goat, whose play has been solidly town this game, it deserves a second look. My gut is notoriously crap, from previous experience.
Nom Anor is a player I always read as scum, so until there is something concrete to condemn him I'll have to say I'm neutral on him.
I have nothing against Roja, other than the fact that he replaced the mildly scummy Phoenix.
Read the thread if you want my opinion on Toastboy. You won't have to read back far.
...
You must be some kind of psychic porn star, because you're blowing my mind. Spot's vote rational is so completely fake, how do you not see it?
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Out of curiosity, how long have you been lurking before signing up to play? Or did you read all of these games in response to replacing into this game?
How do you perceive your scum playstyle?
In other news, spotofprey is at lynch -3 and I would very much like for him to claim whenever he gets back. This should have happened way earlier in the day as well, before Roger Watersmelon got replaced. Several players are getting side tracked right now and spotofprey appears to be trying to lurk to the deadline.
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last updated 03/23/11
You see, as scum, you don't actually believe your suspicions. So you have to be constantly mindful of what you have prevoiusly said or what stances you have previously taken on players. Spot got careless, and either forgot, or willfully ignored that he had previously taken the stance that Alpha was town. He proved the pure insincerity of his suspicions on Alpha when he voted him and said he was neutral on him, after he had previously declared that Alpha was displaying a townie thought process.
If spot was a townie, there would be a reason for him to change his mind on Alpha. There would have had to be something that Alpha did between the post where Spot said he was displaying an organic townie thought process and the post where he listed him as a neutral and voted him. What took place during that period to change spot's mind? Alpha created a case on WoD. Aha! But spot agreed with that case.
There was nothing to change his mind. Town players don't change their mind for no reason. Scum players can change their mind based on their own goals. For example, spot could easily have changed his mind because his motivation changed from wanting to look good when Alpha was lynched to wanting to ensure that Alpha actually was lynched.
He should claim. He should be lynched before deadline.
But anyway, let's stick to deciding our lynch. Has anyone spotted someone scummy enough for us to prey on?
goat's behavioural analysis here looks spot-on (pun unintended). I'll be glad with either a spot lynch (I have no real new information on this - goat said it all) or a WoD lynch, which I've explained already. For now though, I think the case on spot is even more solid than the case on WoD (ironically, most of it is mine :P)
Unvote
Vote Spot
Additionally, Nom, thank you for strengthening my scum read on you even more.
My blog.
My blog.
I'm being dismissive because its a pile of garbage. Opportunistic Goat is jumping on whatever fancies himself at the moment and uses his "clout" to push around the newer players in the game. Look at how preachy his posts are. I have responded to his main point, you and him are just choosing to reject it.
Rejecting rational explanations for behavior - not very constructive behavior, is it?
My comment about Alpha's thought process happened soon after I replaced in. Quit trying to make it seem that I had a "reversal" of opinion within a couple of hours.
You are correct, my motivation was to see Alpha lynched. The deadline was approaching, with a couple of fresh replacements in the middle of a reread and some other players firmly entrenched in whatever random case they had constructed. Day 1 no lynch after a Day 1 of this length is just terrible. Could I have said this when I voted? Yes, but in my experience, using established mafia tactics and paradigms in a newb game usually results in the players not used to that paradigm leads to that players being strung up. Hell, look at pretty much everything I did in the first couple of days after replacing in. A couple of people kept calling my normally accepted Mafia practices scummy behavior, where in a normal game they would be fine.
Could I have waited to cast my vote on Alpha? Probably. But with my own sporadic posting (usually due to lack of time) and the really weird replacement pattern of the game, I didn't want to leave it to chance.
I also know you wouldn't admit this, but there quite a few reaches in your post. Why are you weaving such tales? Why not leave it to the facts instead of sugar coating everything so that the other players are not manipulated?
More reaching.
The entire sequence where Alpha basically gave up and resigned himself to being lynched didn't sit well with me. Stuff like that is really powerful with less experienced players because it seems genuine when it usually isn't. Only bad players or bored players give up as town - Alpha doesn't strike me as either. This alone wasn't enough to vote him. The possibility of a no lynch drove me to vote him.
I really hope that last part is sarcasm. If it isn't - LOL
I'm really not trying to be flip about it or anything, but I haven't posted much for the past 4 weeks. This is nothing new. But since you asked so nicely, I'll claim here so you don't have to wait another 3 days. I am an Irish Goat, and besides being very tasty to trolls and humans, I have no abilities.
Ah, yes, I am throwing around my clout to push around the new players. Let's examine your wagon. There is Ced, who is not new. There's Andelijah, who has been playing mafia longer than I have. I'm not sure how experienced FMJ is, but he played in a newb game with me like a year ago when I was still fairly new, so he's been around long enough.
I guess I'm throwing around my clout to get Alpha on board. Shucks.
Maybe you want to go back and check on that. You replaced in the 10th. Your "thought process" post on Alpha happened the 29th. In fact, let's look exactly at the series of events. I think it will tell us some clues.
Post 343: Alpha claims 1-shot Vig.
Post 384: Your analysis of his claim is that he is reflecting an organic, townie thought process.
Post 473: Your next post is simply you saying that you will get caught up.
Post 482: And here is where you say he's a neutral read and vote him.
You only posted once between your drastic change in opinion, and that post was simply a "I'm going to catch up" post. So your claim that I'm ignoring facts and your change in behavior happened over this extended period of time is strictly false. Your change in behavior happened with only 1 post of yours in between, and both occurred after Alpha claimed.
I'm not reaching. I am weaving tales though. I'm weaving a tale of how I believe you to be scum and what I believe your scum motivation behind your actions to be. I'm not manipulating anyone. I've provided the facts (your change in opinion on Alpha) and provided my interpretation of those facts (you are scum).
You've made some strong accusations here. You've accused me of rejecting rational explanations for behavior as well as manipulating players into voting you. Is there a reason you haven't followed through at all? If you believe I'm rejecting rational explanations and manipulating people, then wouldn't it follow that you believe me to be scum?
This isn't the first time you've discussed that. Let's look at the other time you do so.
Seems contradictory, right?
I do not have any nationality associated with my Goat, and I'm surprised spot claims to be one of Irish descent. It looks quite a bit like a fake claim.
This should be easy to clear up, though. Everyone should note only whether or not their role PM gives them a nationality. Don't claim anything about your role or lack of role or anything else. Just note yes or no whether you have a fancy nationality to your goatedness.