We didnt have daytalk, and when i did my recap, i changed my mind on that (see day 2).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Those posts suggest that he is both a vig, and that something happened to him which may have prevented him from shooting Spot successfully.
916 looks like "Hey, I'm the vig, and I'm shooting spot tonight." 1003 and 1025 look like "Hey, I don't believe spot was roleblocked because I tried to kill him and it failed, thus I think he's lying about that."
Waiting on Andelijah and CC to claim everything regarding their interactions.
I don't think Roja is scum, I believe his claim and I think it fits with his play. TMT I'm iffy on, he's a wildcard for me at the moment.
Loran has struck me as townie all game.
Andelijah has played more pro-town as of late, but I still can't get over his interaction/stance in regards to me. CC has slid through this game essentially unnoticed, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him as scum, and I think him giving spot an item to save spot's life would not be out of the question at all as for why Roja didn't successfully decapitate our dearly beloved spot o' prey.
That's the only possibilities. Given the kills, claimed roles and claimed actions, I can see no other possibilities existing. I find the four above scenarios less likely than the idea of you being scum, therefore my vote stands.
I wasn't RBed by Tilde. There is nothing in my PM that says I was attacked. I started in a daze and "killed" SP. With everything claimed I do not know how my shot was stopped. (Or preveneted or however you want to look at it.)
I thought Andelijah and CC were masons, which is why they dropped on my scum list. As it stands, Andelijah receiving an item from CC doesn't really clear him at all.
Masons and Neighbors in the same game? What is the difference between the two roles?
I want to read through Roja's posts and see if his claim fits. Considering he is a vig, and Spot claimed to be a vig, Roja should have been 100% convinced Spot was scum. If his play doesn't support this, then I'd be all for lynching him.
Spot was found day 1 shooting a prevented player. His claim of Vig I thought was bull.
@Everyone: Has anyone played with Ged hosting before? If so, does he allow the submission of multiple abilities each night? For example, does he allow a single player to both roleblock and kill in a night?
roja, do you conisder 1-shot vig an important role?
I think so. Being able to kill anyone in the game of mafia I feel is very important. I wouldn't want to be responcable solely on the town losing because I shot and killed someone that would have helped us go for a win. Just because Me myself didn't beleive them / didn't agree with them. It's the same as taking 10 people's decision to lynch in the hands of one person. I find it very important.
Some One asks "@ Roja - how many, and which, games have you played in? In other words, what is your level of noobishness?" I find that an odd question, but haven't decided how to interpret it yet. It just doesn't sit right with me.
Scum looking to find out if im a noob. Why doesn't that sit right?
Andelijah has played more pro-town as of late, but I still can't get over his interaction/stance in regards to me. CC has slid through this game essentially unnoticed, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him as scum, and I think him giving spot an item to save spot's life would not be out of the question at all as for why Roja didn't successfully decapitate our dearly beloved spot o' prey.
So you don't see Andel and CC as masons? Besides the "item" transfer why else would you see this. Also See above to andel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
This was supposed to be in where he was wrong about my voting. FOS Andelijah.
I'll need to read Andel, however the thing that is sticking out was how he conviced us that Infinis could be the Sk. Granted then it made sence, but after his comments about me im thinking more about it now.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
Masons and Neighbors in the same game? What is the difference between the two roles?
Very little. The only real difference is that masons are typically both pro-town and there is generally mod confirmation on that, whereas neighbors are just 2 players that can communicate with no info on the other's alignment.
So you don't see Andel and CC as masons? Besides the "item" transfer why else would you see this. Also See above to andel.
It would a little ridiculous for me to see them as masons considering they didn't claim to be masons, eh?
Also, I'm remembering CC's lists from early in the game where he puts Andelijah as a "Serial Killer." Not really a standard mason play.
The reason I had thought they might be masons is because they basically kept beating around about how they thought the other was town, etc, making it blatantly obvious it was based on role.
I gave DYH a one shot investigation in the form of a lie detector. I would still prefer to keep ande's item under wraps.
I've been busy, but I'd still like time to read up and make a case on someone. Just give me a couple of days.
CC, two questions:
1. Why Andelijah?
2. Why wouldn't you give out the lie detector first?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Cropcircles gave you, a player whom he had no information on, a SECOND life on the first day.
Then when you hadnt had one of your lives used yet, decided to give his inspection ability to A DIFFERENT PLAYER?
Never mind the fact that Giving out the double life before an inspect makes little sense in the first place.
I Call SHENANIGANS.
FOS Andelijah&Cropcircles.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Note that if Roja is telling the truth, there's probably a mafia doctor and a mafia roleblocker left, which would be a good reason why the former protected the latter on night 1.
I wasn't RBed by Tilde. There is nothing in my PM that says I was attacked. I started in a daze and "killed" SP. With everything claimed I do not know how my shot was stopped. (Or preveneted or however you want to look at it.)
The only possible answer for this I could see is you targeted Cubus, who has the only bit of unclaimed information left that could possibly cause your ability to fail.
I think so. Being able to kill anyone in the game of mafia I feel is very important. I wouldn't want to be responcable solely on the town losing because I shot and killed someone that would have helped us go for a win. Just because Me myself didn't beleive them / didn't agree with them. It's the same as taking 10 people's decision to lynch in the hands of one person. I find it very important.
You just explained why it is important for you to hit scum, not why your role itself is important.
Scum looking to find out if im a noob. Why doesn't that sit right?
Why would a scum care if you're noob or not? Easy pressure should be easy pressure. He seems to be giving you an out to several questions aimed your way, not trying to determine whether to pressure you or not.
I was on a this voting spree. By request of Goat and DYH.
That's my point. I don't understand why you felt compelled to obey their wishes.
You don't like it, and cannot say why?
Too many questions, not enough purpose.
Umm I went on to read about DYH next. What is wrong with me trying to see both sides of the story.
You voted Cyan during the two high points of his wagon, and held your vote off while the pressure was off of him. My point is you pressured him to look good, not because you thought he was scum (if you thought he was scum, you would have kept your vote on).
Well if your info about me is wrong then I would have to say that your logic is wrong.
My information is perfectly correct.
My point was you made a post proving Cyan was scum, yet you didn't vote him. Hell, you even gave him a cheesy out, saying
Quote from Roja »
However what bothers me is why would he post exactly like he did in Prehistoric.. It would seem too simple (simple like "you got me" ><) . And that alone is what is making me second guess myself.
Let's paraphrase:
"The only thing holding me back is he's acting exactly like he does as scum."
Good logic.
Quote from loran »
HOLD ON HOLD ON HOLD ON.
Cropcircles gave you, a player whom he had no information on, a SECOND life on the first day.
Then when you hadnt had one of your lives used yet, decided to give his inspection ability to A DIFFERENT PLAYER?
Never mind the fact that Giving out the double life before an inspect makes little sense in the first place.
I Call SHENANIGANS.
FOS Andelijah&Cropcircles.
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA OMG OMG OMG WAIT!
Lynch me if you must. I won't die. You will be proven completely wrong and waste a lynch.
I will add, though, that his decision to give me a second life probably stemmed from the fact that I was clearly not mafia after voting for and pushing towards Cyan the entire day.
Lynch me if you must. I won't die. You will be proven completely wrong and waste a lynch.
Or you're a double life mafia....this is not something that is difficult to believe these days...and its something that can easily be claimed as the result of an invention.
I will add, though, that his decision to give me a second life probably stemmed from the fact that I was clearly not mafia after voting for and pushing towards Cyan the entire day.
Oh see, fine, I have no problem with him giving you a gift. But if i had those two abilities to give, my thought process is as followed:
Either 1:
"I'm going to give double life first, then inspect to that same person i think is very likely town if they haven't been attacked yet."
or
2. "Give out inspect in case i die early so as to give the town an edge."
Not: Give out double life night 1 to player 1 i think is town, DO NOTHING on night 2 and then give out cop inspect on night 3 to another player i think is town.
Seriously, explain to me the logic there.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Or you're a double life mafia....this is not something that is difficult to believe these days...and its something that can easily be claimed as the result of an invention.
With three mafia already dead, the mafia have effectively 3 more players? Yea... no.
Oh see, fine, I have no problem with him giving you a gift. But if i had those two abilities to give, my thought process is as followed:
Either 1:
"I'm going to give double life first, then inspect to that same person i think is very likely town if they haven't been attacked yet."
or
2. "Give out inspect in case i die early so as to give the town an edge."
Not: Give out double life night 1 to player 1 i think is town, DO NOTHING on night 2 and then give out cop inspect on night 3 to another player i think is town.
Seriously, explain to me the logic there.
I prefer to just go with the logic of
"I'm town. CropCircles gave me a second life. CropCircles is town."
All that leaves is proving the initial premise, which I did handily day 1. Despite the Numegil wagon, I repeatedly requested to move back to a Cyan wagon. Busing (!) Cyan (!!) on day 1 (!!!) is not the play to make as mafia. You are basically assuming I went into the day with the expressed purpose of getting rid of one of my better scumbuddies, in experience, role, and influence.
With three mafia already dead, the mafia have effectively 3 more players? Yea... no.
I prefer to just go with the logic of
"I'm town. CropCircles gave me a second life. CropCircles is town."
All that leaves is proving the initial premise, which I did handily day 1. Despite the Numegil wagon, I repeatedly requested to move back to a Cyan wagon. Busing (!) Cyan (!!) on day 1 (!!!) is not the play to make as mafia. You are basically assuming I went into the day with the expressed purpose of getting rid of one of my better scumbuddies, in experience, role, and influence.
I'm not assuming anything. Nor am i assuming lynching Cyan makes you town.
I want CC to answer this, but you should at least appreciate the lack of logic in his claimed actions. If you were CC and thought you (Andelijah) was town and you could gift these two abilities.
This makes less sense than Chewbacca living on Endor.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So CropCircles gives Andelijah a second life, and Andelijah cannot think of a reason why a kill on Spotofprey could possibly fail? Roja claims he shot an image of spot, and blew off his head, but Spot didn't die. Roja made posts the day after her shot on Spot that make it seem very likely that he is what he claims.
I'm thinking Andelijah + CC. I think that "2nd life" was a gift to spot of prey. Makes sense, no?
The only possible answer for this I could see is you targeted Cubus, who has the only bit of unclaimed information left that could possibly cause your ability to fail.
See to me this looks like more fishing to get info on Cubus. I shot Spot. Spot didn't play dead.
You just explained why it is important for you to hit scum, not why your role itself is important.
And I did hit scum. The role itself is the power.. You give a loaded gun to the wrong person and "accidents" happen. Are you saying I am wrong for thinking this way about being a vig/1shot vig?
Why would a scum care if you're noob or not? Easy pressure should be easy pressure. He seems to be giving you an out to several questions aimed your way, not trying to determine whether to pressure you or not.
I cannot explain the actions of Some One.. However to me it just looks like how he plays.
That's my point. I don't understand why you felt compelled to obey their wishes.
Why would I want to be so difficult with others? It was harmless and I thought that they thought I had a PR or Voting restriction. Why not disprove that thought at once?
Too many questions, not enough purpose.
I like to ask questions. It helps me think.
You voted Cyan during the two high points of his wagon, and held your vote off while the pressure was off of him. My point is you pressured him to look good, not because you thought he was scum (if you thought he was scum, you would have kept your vote on).
And what is wrong with seeing both sides of the coin on day 1? This is Day 1 we are talking about. Im still trying to get the vibe of everyone. At the time I wanted to make sure I had info on DYH as well should anything scummy come his way later (like if he was wrong). I found no such stuff on his posting habbits and thus voting Cyan again..
My information is perfectly correct.
You saying I didn't vote Cyan again is wrong. I did. It's just not where you would like it to be.
My point was you made a post proving Cyan was scum, yet you didn't vote him. Hell, you even gave him a cheesy out, saying
Let's paraphrase:
"The only thing holding me back is he's acting exactly like he does as scum."
Good logic.
So im wrong for thinking that someone who I consider a good player not to make the same dumb mistake he did when he was scum the first time? I went out and formed my own opinion of Cyan and DYH. And when I had the data from both parties I moved forward.. with a vote on Cyan...
I will add, though, that his decision to give me a second life probably stemmed from the fact that I was clearly not mafia after voting for and pushing towards Cyan the entire day.
This is for CC more then you, but why Andel and not DYH?
So CropCircles gives Andelijah a second life, and Andelijah cannot think of a reason why a kill on Spotofprey could possibly fail? Roja claims he shot an image of spot, and blew off his head, but Spot didn't die. Roja made posts the day after her shot on Spot that make it seem very likely that he is what he claims.
I'm thinking Andelijah + CC. I think that "2nd life" was a gift to spot of prey. Makes sense, no?
Makes sence to me. VOTE Andelijah
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
So CropCircles gives Andelijah a second life, and Andelijah cannot think of a reason why a kill on Spotofprey could possibly fail? Roja claims he shot an image of spot, and blew off his head, but Spot didn't die. Roja made posts the day after her shot on Spot that make it seem very likely that he is what he claims.
I'm thinking Andelijah + CC. I think that "2nd life" was a gift to spot of prey. Makes sense, no?
Quote from sequence of posts »
Originally Posted by CC, Start of Day 2 Dear andelijah,
You're welcome.
Love, CC
Quote:
Originally Posted by ande, in response <3 CC. It goes well with the pants, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ande, start of Day 4 Cubus, Dagger, goatrevolt, and CropCircles are all pretty clear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loran, in response Funny, we didn't think that cropcircles was clear. I don't think so either. Not necessarily saying he's on my list, but what puts him up there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC, in response Eh, it's not gonna take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is role based, given our signals at the start of day 2.
See here's what I'm struggling with. I think Roja is town. His response makes sense to me. However, this pattern of responses here means that if Ande and CC ARE faking this whole thing, it's been a gambit since DAY 2. Which is also hard to believe.
Which means in my thoughts i'm running out of clear suspects...which is why we need things cleared up:
FIRST----CC, Why did you give the cop investigation only on night 3 and do nothing on night 2. In addition, why give out the double life first? Explain your thought process here.
SECOND----Cubus, explain your role. Enough with the hiding, its not helping matters and you havent shown any evidence of helping us in recent days, despite not being roleblocked.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So CropCircles gives Andelijah a second life, and Andelijah cannot think of a reason why a kill on Spotofprey could possibly fail? Roja claims he shot an image of spot, and blew off his head, but Spot didn't die. Roja made posts the day after her shot on Spot that make it seem very likely that he is what he claims.
I'm thinking Andelijah + CC. I think that "2nd life" was a gift to spot of prey. Makes sense, no?
You're wrong on two fronts.
1) I have a second life. This is indisputable. Lynching me will prove it, if you must. Therefore it cannot have been given to spotofprey.
2) The flavor of my second life is a shirt. A piece of clothing gives me the ability to evade a kill once. That has nothing to do with being in a daze.
See to me this looks like more fishing to get info on Cubus. I shot Spot. Spot didn't play dead.
You "shot" spotofprey. Nothing could of happened to you that night. spotofprey isn't dead.
And I did hit scum. The role itself is the power.. You give a loaded gun to the wrong person and "accidents" happen. Are you saying I am wrong for thinking this way about being a vig/1shot vig?
You still haven't answered the question of "why is a 1-shot vig important?"
I like to ask questions. It helps me think.
I like questions too. However they have to have a purpose, something which I don't see in that post.
And what is wrong with seeing both sides of the coin on day 1? This is Day 1 we are talking about. Im still trying to get the vibe of everyone. At the time I wanted to make sure I had info on DYH as well should anything scummy come his way later (like if he was wrong). I found no such stuff on his posting habbits and thus voting Cyan again..
You saying I didn't vote Cyan again is wrong. I did. It's just not where you would like it to be.
You voted him in 281, and were the 7th voter (out of 10). You unvoted immediately after the votecount in 296 - right before the soft claim.
You posted your analysis on 448, when there were one on Cyan (myself).
I made my post in 481 requesting pressure back on Cyan after the modkill of Numegil. The wagon reassembles to 8 or 9 votes/FoSes, whereupon you vote him in 601, unvote in 602, and vote yet again in 605.
So, you voted him when he was approaching claim range, didn't vote him despite a pretty slam dunk case when he was at only one vote, and voted again once he got back towards a lynch.
You "shot" spotofprey. Nothing could of happened to you that night. spotofprey isn't dead.
Imagine my suprise.
You still haven't answered the question of "why is a 1-shot vig important?"
I answered you already, putting the ability to kill a player in this game I find very important.
You voted him in 281, and were the 7th voter (out of 10). You unvoted immediately after the votecount in 296 - right before the soft claim.
Yes at 296 my reasons for voting Cyan were based that I thought he came out and said 'lynch me'.
This reasoning wasen't right and I went to investigate further.
You posted your analysis on 448, when there were one on Cyan (myself).
So you are saying I should follow the crowd and not formulate my own opinion?
I made my post in 481 requesting pressure back on Cyan after the modkill of Numegil. The wagon reassembles to 8 or 9 votes/FoSes, whereupon you vote him in 601, unvote in 602, and vote yet again in 605.
Post 448 was on Feb 18th. Post 601-605 was Feb 23rd. Minus the weekend as Im usually not here. It took me 2 days to compile up my info on DYH and COMPLETE my thought on the matter...
So, you voted him when he was approaching claim range, didn't vote him despite a pretty slam dunk case when he was at only one vote, and voted again once he got back towards a lynch.
I voted when I finished my look on DYH and when I was back here to post my results.
Quote from Loran16 »
See here's what I'm struggling with. I think Roja is town. His response makes sense to me. However, this pattern of responses here means that if Ande and CC ARE faking this whole thing, it's been a gambit since DAY 2. Which is also hard to believe.
Loran are you saying that you find it hard to beleive that scum would start a gambit day 2? Why is that hard to believe?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
andelijah: Did you get the shirt during night 1 or after it. Were you nightkill-immune on night 1?
Time stamps indicate I got the shirt about ten minutes before day started. Flavor suggests I woke up to receive the shirt, which seems to imply I would have died had I gotten shot that night.
So what about being a Vig/1shot not an important role? (Since I see you had no more comments about what I thought I wanna know what you think.)
You did nothing but follow the crowd.
You voted with 6 others on the wagon.
You made a case and didn't vote when 1 other was on the wagon.
You voted with 7-8 others on the wagon.
See a pattern? You only voted Cyan when he was being pressured.
First off you should know by now that I don't vote unless I am sure I am voting for scum. That is how I have played this game from the start.. (The game of mafia) I wasen't 100% sure about the case on Cyan. After I did MY homework I agree with what others were saying. So my timing was wrong?
What in your read of DYH could have made your case against Cyan any less relevant?
Well it was all about Metagaming another player.. not knowing how Cyan or DYH "usually" play I needed to find out for myself. And I did.
The case was standalone. Yet you didn't vote because it looked like Cyan might make it through the day.
The case was standalone.. meaning what? You are putting reasons why I didn't do something when it goes against how I play.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
So what about being a Vig/1shot not an important role? (Since I see you had no more comments about what I thought I wanna know what you think.)
It's a 1-shot kill that didn't even do anything?
Even if it did, it's not useful for much other than speeding up a counterclaim or information process. Normal vigs are decent due to their ability to fire at whoever the player finds suspicious. 1-shot vigs do not have that luxury.
First off you should know by now that I don't vote unless I am sure I am voting for scum. That is how I have played this game from the start.. (The game of mafia) I wasen't 100% sure about the case on Cyan. After I did MY homework I agree with what others were saying. So my timing was wrong?
If you don't vote unless you are sure... why do you unvote the first time?
The case was standalone.. meaning what? You are putting reasons why I didn't do something when it goes against how I play.
You made a case on Cyan. Then, without any new information about him, you decided to vote him later. If your reasoning for the vote was your case, like it seems to be, then why not vote with the case? If you had new information on the case when making your vote, why not reveal it?
Instead, you made a case, waited, and then voted. In the meantime, nothing new happened with Cyan.
I don't know what to think at this point. The situation with Roja's failed shot still bothers the hell out of me, but I find myself increasingly uneasy about the whole CC/andelijah thing. I would really like for CC to give an explanation for his Night 1 action.
I keep thinking I must be missing something though. With all the claimed actions (both done by and done to), I keep thinking we should be able to narrow things down better. All I manage to keep coming up with is that Roja's situation doesn't add up, and I still have a hard time imagining that a 19 player game would have an SK and a 5-man mafia with an ascetic, a role-blocker, and a doc. Something here simply is not adding up.
Even if it did, it's not useful for much other than speeding up a counterclaim or information process. Normal vigs are decent due to their ability to fire at whoever the player finds suspicious. 1-shot vigs do not have that luxury.
So in general you feel that Vigs are important and 1shots are not?
If you don't vote unless you are sure... why do you unvote the first time?
I read into something that wasen't there.
You made a case on Cyan. Then, without any new information about him, you decided to vote him later. If your reasoning for the vote was your case, like it seems to be, then why not vote with the case? If you had new information on the case when making your vote, why not reveal it?
The new information you are referring to is me myself finding out about the main attacker on Cyan, DYH. Which I did post. And thus voted for Cyan afterwards. (Even again after checking Prehistoric again.)
Instead, you made a case, waited, and then voted. In the meantime, nothing new happened with Cyan.
I started a case, provided more info on the case and then voted when I had all of the facts on the case. (Between those two that is.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
2. Why wouldn't you give out the lie detector first?
Ande was the player I was reading strongest as pro-town at the end of day 1. This is largely due to how obvscum he was in VR.
I wanted a more solid target for the LD, and I feel it's an item that is better suited for later in the game. Investigations early game are very likely to end up on players who will end up dead by the end game anyway, and the endgame is where investigations are most usefull, as even if they don't directly out a scum, the PoE use is usually even better. The Bullet Proof vest is more likely to block a kill earlier in the game, thus more useful early game.
Quote from loran »
HOLD ON HOLD ON HOLD ON.
Cropcircles gave you, a player whom he had no information on, a SECOND life on the first day.
Then when you hadnt had one of your lives used yet, decided to give his inspection ability to A DIFFERENT PLAYER?
Never mind the fact that Giving out the double life before an inspect makes little sense in the first place.
I Call SHENANIGANS.
FOS Andelijah&Cropcircles.
My understanding of the item was that it didn't protect against lynches, just killing abilities. Ande seems to have interpreted it differently(or is just plain lying), so I've PM'd the mod, as the wording in my Role PM is ambiguous. Ged is fast - the Vest doesn't protect against lynches. At any rate, there is nothing wrong with the way I played it.
Quote from loran »
Oh see, fine, I have no problem with him giving you a gift. But if i had those two abilities to give, my thought process is as followed:
Either 1:
"I'm going to give double life first, then inspect to that same person i think is very likely town if they haven't been attacked yet."
or
2. "Give out inspect in case i die early so as to give the town an edge."
Not: Give out double life night 1 to player 1 i think is town, DO NOTHING on night 2 and then give out cop inspect on night 3 to another player i think is town.
Seriously, explain to me the logic there.
Oh, okay. So you're going to teach me mafia theory now, huh?
Way to completely take the situation out of context, BTW. At the end of Day 2, there was that whole mess with Spot/Goat/DYH, remember? The LD is best if used later in the game, espeicially if I could snag the double investigation available: clear me in addition to getting the alignment of whoever is investigated. But on Day 2, the only cleared players were players who had claimed abilities - bit of a waste to give investigative roles an investigation, no? And with all those claimed investigators, I figured it was a pretty small chance that I was gonna get shot, so I held onto it to go for the big swing.
I refuse to accept that the mafia couldn't have had a way to block the kill on spot. The thought process makes sense, but if he's scum, then we wouldn't have had any killing roles in the town, which seems just as unlikely to me as the mafia being able to use abilities in the same night that they make a kill. One for and one against as far as set-up speculation goes, and meanwhile, I've been reading him as pro-town since Day 1.
If we consider Cubus, goat, and Roja as clear, then that leaves myself, ande, loran, and TMT, with three lynches available to us. We can clear me by lynching ande, so if we lynch ande, loran, and TMT, I believe we will win. The only way I see this failing is if we lynch ande and he comes up scum, then my confirmation goes down the hole. If you guys lynch me at that point, then you'll have to choose between TMT and loran, and wrong choice means game over. But even in that scenario, I think TMT is overwhelmingly more likey to be scum, and I'm confident you guys see that too.
I propose the following.
10 CLS
20 Lynch andelijah
30 If andelijah = Town then Lynch TMT + loran
40 Else Lynch CC + TMT
My understanding of the item was that it didn't protect against lynches, just killing abilities. Ande seems to have interpreted it differently(or is just plain lying), so I've PM'd the mod, as the wording in my Role PM is ambiguous. Ged is fast - the Vest doesn't protect against lynches. At any rate, there is nothing wrong with the way I played it.
The way it is phrased is that it gives me an extra life. It does say it stops one kill against me, but considering the first piece of information I assumed that would extend to lynches as well.
If we consider Cubus, goat, and Roja as clear,
10 CLS
20 Lynch andelijah
30 If andelijah = Town then Lynch TMT + loran
40 Else Lynch CC + TMT
The way it is phrased is that it gives me an extra life. It does say it stops one kill against me, but considering the first piece of information I assumed that would extend to lynches as well.
I'm not sure I like Roja living.
Do you have anything other then the assumption that the Mafia couldn't have blocked a kill on spot?
Do you really suspect we don't have any town killing roles?
Do you have anything other then the assumption that the Mafia couldn't have blocked a kill on spot?
Did you read my case?
loran voted Some One and spotofprey day 2, and The Mad Tapper voted Cyan, JqlGirl, and Some One day 1. I would lynch The Mad Tapper over loran due to his last post.
I suppose it could have been an elaborate busing strategy, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to make that conclusion yet.
Of course, if I'm lynched, its not like we have much margin for error on the situation, but from my perspective Roja > TMT > loran = 95% win.
Do you really suspect we don't have any town killing roles?
I wouldn't have expected it from the beginning of the game, but a 1-shot vig is not much to support the entire town with, and the scum having the ability to counter a kill would have been designed nearly specifically for the SK, and that doesn't seem right either.
I'm sorry. Seders and now my wisdom teeth acting up has hurt me and prevented me from being too active.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The problem I have with CC's plan is that it hinges on us having "three lynches available". But that's only true if there's only one scum left. If there are two scum left, we only have two lynches available (2 mis-lynches + 2 night-kills = end game of 2 scum + 1 town). And unless we're willing to believe GR is scum, there have to be two scum left to account for everything that has happened. GR gambitting as scum is the only way there can be only one scum left, as far as I can see.
The problem I have with CC's plan is that it hinges on us having "three lynches available". But that's only true if there's only one scum left. If there are two scum left, we only have two lynches available (2 mis-lynches + 2 night-kills = end game of 2 scum + 1 town). And unless we're willing to believe GR is scum, there have to be two scum left to account for everything that has happened. GR gambitting as scum is the only way there can be only one scum left, as far as I can see.
No.
It hinges on me, Cubus, Goat, and Roja being town. If two of the three remaining players are scum, and we lynch two of the three remaining players...my math may be a bit fuzzy, but I'm having a hard time seeing where you think we'll get two mislynches there.
It hinges on me, Cubus, Goat, and Roja being town. If two of the three remaining players are scum, and we lynch two of the three remaining players...my math may be a bit fuzzy, but I'm having a hard time seeing where you think we'll get two mislynches there.
It has to do with my disputing your assertion that Roja is clear. Or you, for that matter. I know I'm town, and your plan involves lynching me if andelijah flips town. In a two scum scenario, I know 100% that equals a loss for the town. Lynching andelijah and seeing him flip scum would be nice, but I'm not signing off on a plan that hinges entirely on that happening.
I'm still up for an andelijah lynch. I can definitely see him being scum, and worst-case we get confirmation on CC. I think it's the best course of action for today, and what we do tomorrow and thereafter we'll decide later.
Knowing that the bolded is true, what is your plan for tomorrow?
There are 2 options. I'm town, and I'm scum. Surely you can come up with a plan of action for two scenarios.
Note: Due to wisdom Teeth, classes, and airflights, I'll probably not be able to post too coherently until Tuesday Night.
Ow.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
RE Roja: I was hoping for a better description, but, *shrug*
It actually makes sense that Tilde blocked Roja, for a couple of reasons.
First off all, when Infinis was blocked, he said nothing about being hit on the head. Just "lights out."
Quote from Infinis »
I heard a knock at my door and then lights out. Woke up feeling like hell. Thats why I assumed protect since something happened and I survived it.
When spot claimed, it was a bit different.
Quote from spot »
Basically attacked by someone, bludgeoned in the head, woke up in my bed and it was morning. So I think it was a roleblock rather than something from my role.
When asked if this lined up, Infinis said...
Quote from Infinis »
No. Something happened. It doesn't state attack or anything, just that I answered a knock at my door and then nothing. I woke up on the floor feeling the effects of whatever happened, no hints as to what had happened except it was unpleasant.
This actually lines up more with Roja's claim. Specifically that he was in a "daze" without any sign of attack.
Quote from Roja »
I looked over my PM from that night and was remided that I was in a "daze" when I attacked him. I couldn't explain what happened, and asked, with no one answering me, if anyone did anything to me. After seeing Inifinis comming up "backup" RBler it makes sence that he could have hit me thus me still shooting a fake target. That is that is my theory unless someone else here can make images.
So, why the attack of a precieved "image?" It actually makes sense, once you consider the fact that Roja is claiming a one shot ability. He's got one use, if he gets blocked and never leaves his home, there's no flavor reason for why his one use is used up. Whereas from a mechanics standpoint, usually when a limited use ability is blocked, it still uses up a shot. Ged probably just wrote the flavor such that Roja still used his ability to explain why he doen't have a shot left.
Infinis' roleblock made no mention of an actual attack, and then Tilde comes out and says he's The Shoveler, and then spot claims flavor of being hit on the head. Infinis even refuted that that was what the RB looked like! Based on that alone, it doesn't look like spot was telling the truth. He was just making up what he thought The Shovler's RoleBlock would look like.
And really, there was no reason for him to be telling the truth. A lot of people wanted Tilde to block spot, but at the end of the Day, Tilde said that he wanted to see who Some One's alignment was before deciding, implying that he hadn't decided to follow the town's wishes. Meanwhile, the scum had no reason to believe that Spot was going to last the night. They had to assume that there was a real Vig out there, which would mean that spot was going to show up dead in the morning. When he didn't, he no doubt had to come up with something on the fly, since he had claimed to be a vig who was going to target Goat, and Goat was still alive.
What was he going to claim, other then a roleblock?
So. Haven't done a PBPA in forever, but here goes. In my complete reread, out of Roja, ande, loran, and TMT, I found that TMT stuck out the most to me. This may be too out of context for you to get the jist of where I'm coming from, but I how it'll help see my point of view.
After discovering the shocking changes to Wayne Manor and ~Tilde~'s bizarre schematics, TMT quickly springs into action. With a few heroics, he will be able to use this device to thwart both the mediciny JqlGirl and the mysteriously feathery andelijah.
As the confusing discussion continues, TMT slips out of the room quietly. He peeks cautiously into the kitchen. Opening the cabinet, he is shocked to find a bottle of Dayquil and a calculator. Could Alfred be in on it too? But wait, someone's coming! TMT quickly hides under the sink and watches carefully. It's andelijah! What's he doing here? TMT watches him as he writes a small note and leaves. Checking the note, he is stunned by what he finds: a message stating for anyone finding the messasge to vote TMT! Pulling out his trusty pencil, he erases the message and quickly writes one of his own.
I will not be beaten so easily, my fowl nemesis! Hahahaha!
Yes, there is some incredible craziness afoot. But we will find the villains behind it, and save the day once again!
I am thrilled by the danger of our present situation. TMT lives for such adventure!
The only thing worth noting about the random voting stage is that he started the RPing early, which implies that he was planning on claiming Stupendous Man from very early on. Slight point in his favor, but if the scum have False Claims, it's obviously null.
The fearless TMT finds himself a little wary of SO after that last post. SO points out that the sub-claim would not likely limit our adversaries enough to be worthwhile, yet then goes on to vote DYH based on him ignoring that sub-claims would help them know their limits. It seems suspicious that he says the odds of scum picking an already-taken name are slim by default, yet faults DYH based on the idea that sub-claims could make a meaningful difference in the scum picking safe false-claims.
unvote, vote Some One
Take that, evil-doer!
Attacks Someone for a convoluted attack on DYH. Attack is sound, target is sound. It's the first real vote, though, and he never mentions it again, which looks like distancing.
TMT quickly runs AH's post through his trusty super-deciperer-thingy. He waits anxiously for the answer... OH NO! Smoke is coming out! It looks like this one won't be so easy to crack.
Though TMT is usually opposed to early mass-claims of any scope, this one does not strike him as possessing any real potential danger to the town. If the scum have been given "disguises" in the form of safe-claims, then the soft-claim is no gain but no loss either. If they don't, the town has forced them to narrow their range of claims. There isn't really any danger of outing power roles with this, either. After careful consideration, TMT will support the soft-claim plan.
The soft claim was proposed post 129. TMT posted twice without mentioning it, then only states his opinion here at post 247 where he pretty much echos what everyone else had already decided.
TMT watches the ongoing debates with interest. Cyan's initial reaction to DYH's accusation seemed rather tame for him. His next few posts became more like the typically aggressive Cyan, only to return to a very submissive tone. TMT cross-references the data with his files, and finds that Cyan's behavior does indeed differ from what he has exhibited as town.
unvote, vote Cyan
This vote is a solid point in TMT's favor. 6th on the wagon, which is kind of risky territory for distancing, but I'm not ruling out bussing. The one negative here is that his reason is just a summary of what everyone else has said.
After TMT finishes his work, he sets off to join the rest of the town. No sooner than he closes the secret passage, he hears footsteps coming down the hall. It's Roja! And he appears to be looking for our intrepid hero. Thinking fast, he ducks behind a decorative bush and waits for Roja to pass. He pulls out his trusty pencil and notepad and jots a small note next to Roja's name:
A simple misunderstanding, my strange-faced associate. I thought, clearly in a state of delirium, that you were implying my file comment was about my role. My files on Cyan include Fiasco Corp and Doomsday, though I've had occasion to glance over other files on this site. And I find that I agree with DYH that Cyan's town play tends to not include any submissive comments, which is something he has displayed in this game. From what I recall of Cyan's town play, he is abrasive and aggressive even when he's not directly attacking players, which has not thus far seemed to be the case.
I am a little wary of the cootie-ridden JqlGirl, but even as town she does tend to come off as suspicious from what I remember of her in the last game I played with her. Aside from her nefarious Dayquil plot, I don't see anything warranting pressure at this time.
The fishing part is Null, but the last bit there about Jql is pretty bad. "I'm a little wary" isn't usually followed by "I don't see anything warranting pressure."
Your two sentences explained why you thought it would not help, oh apocalyptic one. But even if flavor and alignment are asynchronous, that is not the only purpose a sub-claim would server. What reason do you have to believe that the town has made an error? Or are you merely feigning indignation to disguise your attempt to thwart our efforts in saving Danger City?
TMT chews on his eraser as he reads over his notes on JqlGirl. She's too cautious. Trying very hard to explain away her vote on the newest wagon. Trying to preemptively excuse jumping off it. Not to mention her unnatural fixations with late Ming Dynasty pottery and over-the-counter cough syrup. He hesitates for a moment. He's been wrong about her before. But there's too much at stake here, too much to give her a pass. He takes a deep breath and jumps off the nearby stairs. For freedom! For justice!"
unvote, vote JqlGirl
Turn around, apparantly deciding that it isn't just Jql being Jql. In and of itself, pretty null.
TMT sighs in frustration. It's begun. Names revealed. Suspicions cast. Boundless speculations. Why do they do this? Rorscach has exposed himself, and now the chaos begins. "He could be a serial killer!" "Maybe he's a paranoid cop!" Is it too late to stop things from spiraling into utter madness? The answer could only be in one place. TMT dashes out of the room in search of a cookie jar!
Aside: Real life caught up with me this week. Things are stable now. Will participate better.
TMT finishes off a cookie before returning to his mission. He pulls out his trusty pencil and begins to make notes:
- Cyan - Continues to post in an unusually non-aggressive fashion, ironically only displaying aggression when responding to accusations of non-aggression.
- JqlGirl - Continues to exhibit signs of follow-the-leader mentality.
- ~Tilde~ - Continues to attack based on soft-claim speculation. Attack made on Roja includes unsubstantiated supposition of comic-based roles only, does not unvote even when confronted with evidence disproving supposition.
TMT puts the notebook away, hoping that most of those big words mean what he thinks they do. Dictionaries are boring anyway. Now he needs a plan. Any one of them could be plotting his demise. ALL of them could be, for that matter. Where to begin? Cyan's behavior is by far the more aberrant of the three. Occasionally he has behaved normally, giving our hero pause. But such moments quickly pass, and he is left pondering this stranger that seems to merely call himself Cyan. Our hero prepares, this time from the top of a nearby end-table. Once again he leaps, striking with unerring aim!
unvote, vote Cyan
The "list" here is a bit off. It's the town's number one lynch canidate, followed by two of the players up for The "Lynched Most As Town in 2009" Award. Ultimately, he does re-join the CyanScum Wagon, though, and with andelijah and AH as the only other voters. So much less wagoning here.
A shout from the other side of the room startles our intrepid hero. loran16 is pointing menacingly, accusingly. TMT opens his mouth to object, only to find that loran16 has suddenly brushed off the previous post, turning his attention elsewhere. Our hero scratches his head, wondering what prompted the sudden outburst. Perhaps time will tell.
The plot thickens a little farther to the left, where pressure mounts on RobRoy to answer the questions that have been leveled at him. He remains stoic, however, indicating that he will elucidate further once the mysterious figure known as Dagger has returned. Who is this Dagger character, and what secret does he hold that has RobRoy so concerned? Our hero is left to wonder, and to wish he had grabbed one more cookie before he left the kitchen.
This was in response to loran voting TMT, then saying "Reason coming shortly," then getting into a fight with SomeOne. Null.
The tension builds. Our fearless hero locks eyes with loran16. Time seems to stand still. With blinding speed, loran16 strikes! TMT braces himself for the initial assault and prepares his counterattack.
My accusation is untrue, you say? Hardly! Cyan's post on Dagger was an attack, yes, but hardly as abrasive as one would expect from Cyan. The other three posts are small and mostly insignificant, and not what you'd call aggressive. "RR's post looks bad, but I don't think it's scummy." To say my accusation is "untrue" is disingenuous at best.
My other two targets are "cruddy easy ones"? This kind of attack is weak, and reeks of sinister motives. If a player does something obviously suspicious or scummy, there is nothing wrong at all with pointing it out. You criticize the Cyan wagon for being based on meta and not scummy behavior (conveniently ignoring the lurking, which indeed is scummy), yet when I point out scummy behavior in other players you cry "Oh look, he's attacking easy targets!" Your attack here is a double standard, a pitiful attempt to tarnish my good name.
And hiding behind a PR? Hah! No one tells TMT how to post! And I do not hide from danger; I face it with the courage of a true hero! So what if I am prone to self-narration? What good hero's story is unnarrated?
I stand behind my vote on Cyan. His normally abrasive tone has only showed up when confronted. His attacks on players other than his attackers have been tame by comparison. His posting level is much lower than I would expect from him, and his current absense smells of avoidance. He hopes the pressure will let up while the players are distracted by other matters.
loran attacks TMT for picking on weak targets, which is true. (The one thing loran has wrong is Cyan's alignment, but given how transparant Cyan was on Day 1, bussing is far from unlikely.) TMT's response RE Cyan is sound, but either he's town actually reading Cyan as scum, or he was bussing and he knew he was "right." Which makes that part of the defense null. His defense to his suspicions of Jql and Tilde is pretty "meh." He's not completely wrong, but he seems more interested in slandering loran then defending his suspiciouns.
EBWOTP: "consider", not "conside". TMT refuses to waste time with tyrannical spellcheckers!
I'd like to know what he was "considering" when Cyan claimed. Null rolename + Null Ability = no reason to not continue to lynch. The fact that he seemed to "reconsider" looks like he was hoping others would back down first.
TMT hears a voice behind him. He cautiously turns around to stand face to face with the mysterious Dagger. But there is no time for introductions. The man is ready to get down to business.
The villain has made his claim, and now we must decide his fate. He says his name alone should clear him. "This is a game about superheroes, after all! Of course Elastigirl is town!" But as he himself pointed out, it's a game of superheroes, not supervillains! The scum themselves may very well be heroes, or perhaps more accurately former heroes. And what of the previous suggestion that the scum have disguises? The name alone proves nothing. But what of the role? Untargetability could go either way as a role, but in conjunction with his behavior I must conclude that it is scummy. As an untargetable townie, I would expect Cyan to be more aggressive, not less. He mentions that he tends to draw night-actions, and that failed night-actions make people suspicious. But Cyan has always struck me as much too bold to worry about such things. It strikes me as more likely that his fear of suspicion stems from his alignment rather than a genuine concern for the town. Ultimately, I conclude that my vote shall stand.
Finished with addressing Dagger's question, our hero turns to JqlGirl. Reaching into his belt, he pulls out a FoSium hand-grenade.
I have but one vote, but the actions of the devious JqlGirl cannot go unanswered. Her waffling on Cyan, "explained" by her claim that it is just her nature to flip between opposing opinions, is a travesty. She fears to look like she's barning, but also fears how it will look if she avoids a wagon of a scummy player. So in her desperation she tries to ride the fence, issuing a "major FoS" but then saying that the wagon just isn't solid enough for her vote.
In a blur of motion, TMT's hand swings forward. The FoSium grenade flies with unnatural precision toward its target.
FoS JqlGirl
My research indicates that he was indeed unlynchable, but only for the first three days of the game. Furthermore, in FF7 he would specifically show up as town when investigated, rather than the investigation failing. The difference between his role here and his role in FF7 fits perfectly with the differing behavior.
After dagger asks, he once again restates what everyone else has said, and concludes that his vote on Cyan will stand. Which it was pretty obvious at this point that Cyan was swinging anyway.
The FOS on Jql here is sound, her response to Cyan's claim was TERRIBLE.
TMT scans Infinis's post with his trusty townometer. The needle buries itself in the "This post is terrible" range. Quickly, he grabs another FoSium grenade.
There's not enough "'Cyan is town evidence' to warrant sparing him", but he hasn't earned your vote? If you were town, you would be more concerned with evidence that he's scum than you would evidence that he's town. A true hero would never just let someone swing because they haven't proven themselves to be town. Then again, if you were his scumbuddy I would expect less wishy-washy and more bus. My heroic instincts tell me something is terribly wrong with your fence-riding here. I read two possible things from this post:
1) Cyan is town, you are scum or neutral, you don't want to fight the mislynch, but you want to be able to say "look, I refused to vote the townie!".
2) Cyan is scum, you are neutral, you don't want to risk bandwagoning on a townie, but you also don't want to risk having avoided a wagon on a scum.
I think 2) is more likely, since I still believe Cyan to be scum, but either way I think you're a good place to start tomorrow. Take this!
FoS Infinis
This is off. Infinis' post was complete newb fence sitting, and for TMT to somehow conclude that that means he's neutral because scum would do more bussing...this smells of inside info. More on that in a sec.
Refreshed from his sleep, TMT joins the morning assembly. A bowl of excessively sugary cereal would be nice, but there's no time for that. There's only time for justice! With super-human strength, TMT bounds to the top of a nearby bookshelf. He stands boldly with his hands on his hips, and prepares to levy his accusations at the next evildoer on the list.
The fiend known as Infinis must go!
He has contributed nothing aside from trying to promote setup speculation (dwelling on Ged's "falseclaims are hard enough" comment) and doing setup speculation himself (theories about rolename themes, hints that he's cooking up a second theory). About the only opinions he's given are a single response to the soft-claim question and a few (imo terrible) responses about Cyan's wagon. He's made a couple of half-hearted jabs at Tilde and Jql, but hasn't done any real scum hunting at all. The only comment he's made toward that end was suggesting that most of the scum were on Cyan's wagon since no one had hammered him.
Infinis has avoided participating aside from some weak speculation, weak jabs at a couple of players, and major waffling regarding Cyan's wagon. His behavior is not heroic, and he must be dealt with. The villain must pay!
TMT fixes Infinis with an intense stare. Gadgets were sufficient for the first day, but now it's time to show these people his real power! Suddenly, a pair of bright red voterrion beams shoot from his eyes, striking the scoundrel square in the chest.
vote Infinis
Most of this is sound, but the mention of Infinis' "theories" is terrible, as those were some of his most genuine posts. The fact that TMT somehow decided they were scummy looks like more of a smear campaign then anything else.
This assertion seems reasonable, though it completely ignores the possibility of him being neutral (which I indeed suggested yesterday toward the end). His behavior does not feel like "useless town" to me. It doesn't feel town at all. I am quite confident that he is not on our side.
No, I'm attacking a player based on his villainous actions. The suggestion that he is neutral stems largely from his interactions with Cyan's wagon.
Even if it were true that we were all sidekicks, what would that accomplish? What gain would it be for the town to know this? It's useless speculation, and serves only to give the appearance of participation. And trying to appear to be participating while actually not is anti-town behavior.
The first post is in regard to loran's assertion that the "theories" are a common newb town tell. The fact that TMT accusses Infinis of being neutral is telling, imo, because he looks like a scum who think's he's caught another scum. In other words, he's mafia, so he knows Infinis isn't Mafia, but he is actually reading him as scum, which leads him to believe he's got the SK. The idea that Infinis looks Neutral because of his interactions with Cyan is strange and unexplained.
Infinis challenges our hero, lashing back with a challenge to prove the accusations. But TMT is not intimidated so easily, and quickly strikes back with a counter-attack!
Perhaps waffling is not the right term, though posting "I don't think meta is a good reason to lynch" followed by "not enough town evidence to spare him" to "still not enough evidence for me to vote him" could reasonably be called waffling. Call it fence-sitting if you prefer, it still looks terrible.
Again with the useless and wrong theories. Cubus's claimed character is sourced in a graphic novel (though a film has been made, yes). And my character is sourced in none of those things. Aside from plain-sight lurking, what exactly are you trying to accomplish with these useless theories?
Arguing with Infinis, semantics and more "theories." Pretty null.
The nefarious Infinis still holds my vote. His "scum list" looks much more like an "OMGUS list", as nearly every person on it has either attacked him or done something that he perceives as an attack. Furthermore, his lashing back at andelijah positively reeks of OMGUS. andlijah's points regarding the problems posed by excessive setup speculation are spot on, and Infinis's reaction is to immediately suggest that andelijah is scumbuddies with someone (or more) on his scum list.
The apocalicious Abandon Hope is also looking worse the more he posts. In almost every game I've played in or read where a roleblock was announced, the questions "what was the flavor?" and "did anyone else get blocked?" quickly follow, often (most often, in fact) posed by townies. I greatly dislike the spin he uses to make Dagger's question look bad: suggesting the outing of power roles if a mass-roleblock had occurred. A mass-roleblock is not a common happening, and to spin a commonly asked question as scummy based on the possibility of a fringe scenario like that reeks of villainous motives.
TMT reaches into his belt and pulls out one of his favorite toys. He looks at the FoSium grenade, hesitates for a moment, then puts it back. He said "no gadgets" today. Maybe tomorrow. Today a Mega FoS Justice Punch is in order. He leaps from his perch on top of the bookshelf and dives straight at hope abandoning fiend.
FoS Abandon Hope
Continues attack on Infinis for OMGUS. Pretty common for newbs, but Infinis was looking pretty bad. *shrug* Foses AH for his approach to revealing RB info. Can't argue there.
TMT ponders SO's claim, and quickly follows the lead to this "scifipedia". A quick scan of the place reveals much more than SO let on.
SO mentions that his character has no super powers, but conveniently fails to mention the sentence prior to it that mentions that his gas mask not only hides his identity, but protects him from his own weapon:
"He employs his 'gas gun', which emits gas to put people to sleep, or place them into a hypnotic trance in which they reveal their secrets."
Furthermore, Dagger's correct. A miller should always claim on Day 1. No exceptions.
TMT lunges at the cornered villain and brutally votes him with his incredible strength!
unvote, vote Some One
EWP: Yet another villain cornered, this time by GR? The plot thickens!
This is in response to the Cubus/Goatrevolt reveal. Null.
That doesn't sound anything at all like a protect. It sounds very much like a role block. The fact that you only revealed it as an attempt to stem the mounting pressure on you and the fact that you tried to pass it off as a doc protect certainly does not make me feel any better about you.
TMT's vote has moved, but he still has plenty of Mega FoS Justice Punches to go around.
FoS Infinis
SO's the play today. SoP is probably a good start tomorrow. But I still think Infinis needs to be dealt with as well.
EWP: I see Tilde has claimed. Gonna go back and look over some things. Right after my cookie break.
Concludes that spot and SO need to die, still doesn't like Infinis, all null.
DYH posted that after seeking clarification from Infinis, who said the PM indicated he was either protected or roleblocked. Suggesting a jailer effect is hardly unusual. Not sold on Tilde's scum list at all.
Actually, after reading back over what DYH and GR posted regarding SoP and Dagger, I think SoP is the play today. SO can wait till tomorrow.
unvote
Shoots down Tilde's scumlist. Null.
The next part, where he says spot is the play, is interesting because it seems out of nowhere and without reason. More on that in a sec.
TMT jumps suddenly. He looks out the window at the setting sun. Bedtime is approaching! Confound it all!
I completely forgot that Ged mentioned in the rules about setting arbitrary deadlines for each day. His last vote count post mentions the "Falling Sun". We need to decide between SO and SoP soon, and if anyone has important things to say today they need to do it.
Maybe he did just title it like that because he's expecting a lynch soon. But when I saw the title it reminded me of the rule and I went back to check it. I thought it was something worth bringing up.
And yes, SO would get the lynch at this point. But my point was in case of the deadline we should make sure the one we want lynched has the majority of the votes. I'm not trying to rush a lynch, I just want to make sure the one we want lynched has the majority while we finish the day.
Got a little antsy about a potential deadline. Null.
It was not a matter of thinking SO is town, but rather that SoP was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so to speak. DYH indicated that Dagger was the only one slated to die, and GR indicated that SoP was the only person to target Dagger besides DYH. SO was investigated scum but claims miller. There's a very little chance of either being town IMO, but I felt SO's slim chance of actually being town was slightly more likely than SoP's slim chance. That said, the argument that SO's role is likely more important that SoP's certainly has merit, and I am perfectly willing to concede the point. I have no objection to lynching SO first.
On a completely unrelated note, I'm finding my RP (not to be confused with PR) harder to maintain as the game progresses. It was fun, but it's simply easier and faster to post in a normal fashion. I may still throw Mega FoS Justice Punches from time to time, though.
Says he thinks spot should be lynched first, as he's more likely scum. I don't think this makes sense, but I don't see the scum agenda in trying to get one Goon lynch before the other. Null, I guess.
Really confused by andelijah here. There's no reason to go with a "let SoP have a chance to prove himself, then lynch him if GR turns up dead town" plan. We should do the opposite and go with a "vig SoP, then lynch GR if (in the extremely unlikely event) SoP turns up dead town" plan.
Tilde roleblocking SoP along with the vig shooting him seems like the percentage play IMO. Someone other than SoP will do the nightkill, obviously. But they're going to be using whatever other ability they have, so we're still shorting the scum an ability. Furthermore, GR is still about as safe as he'll be either way since the scum have to consider that GR is an obvious target for protection roles. Further furthermore, it insures that Tilde doesn't mistakenly do something like block a townie power role tonight.
This was where ande said we shouldn't declare that Tilde will be blocking spot. I'm in the middle on this debate, I can see both sides. Only thing to note about TMT is that he once again is pretty much stating what others have said.
Continual wishy-washy posts, lots of fence-sitting and waffling. Multiple times she has changed opinions based on nothing but popular opinion. Her posts today have been terrible too. I particularly loved the "don't we have anything constructive to say" bit. I'm gonna have to buy a new hypocrisy meter, cuz mine exploded when she said that. A notable oddity was SO's attacks on her at the end of Day 1 and beginning of Day 2. I had a hard time at first deciding if it was distancing or wagonning on SO's part, but I'm leaning distancing at this point.
Infinis
Reading back over the last few days, my opinion of him remains unchanged. I think the point about him being role-blocked Night 1 and there being no kills (when we've seen two kills each of the following nights) is worth considering. Note I suggested Day 1 that his approach to the Cyan wagon struck me as possibly indicative of neutral alignment. I think his posts overall feel like he's trying to look like he's contributing without actually contributing. And his suspicions have pretty much exclusively been directed at people who attack/criticize him. He's already started it again today with his jab at AH.
Abandon Hope
His posts have all been short and snipy, and haven't contributed much. The only notable exceptions were his posts at Dagger, which were terrible IMO.
andelijah
On the whole I was getting a town read from him until the whole SoP/GR bit. His stance there was pretty odd IMO, and it makes me suspicious of him. Of those on my list, he's the lowest.
Summary:
JqlGirl: Never commits to a stance, follows the crowd. Verdict: Probably Mafia
Infinis: Feigns contribution with useless speculation, wields OMGUS like a cudgel, overly concerned with his image, very reluctant to commit to a stance on Cyan's wagon. Verdict: Probably Mafia or SK, Definitely Non-Town
Abandon Hope: Shorty snipy posting, very poor attacks on Dagger. Verdict: Possibly Mafia
andelijah: Supported giving SoP a chance to shoot GR. Townie read up until then. Verdict: Uncertain, leaning Possibly Mafia
I think there's a reasonable chance he's the SK, and so of those on my list I prefer to lynch him first.
Attacks Infinis, Jql, AH, and a slight nod at ande. He's still sticking with weak targets, and the note on ande looks either like distancing or testing the water, the way it is so obviously toned down from the other ones.
By day he is 7 year old billionaire playboy Calvin, but by night he is...
STUPENDOUS MAN!!!
And for those asking about the action scenes, I'm sorry that I've put them on hold. It was getting difficult to make detailed posts and continue RP'ing. Also, props to CC for guessing so close. Spaceman Spiff gets much more comics than Stupendous Man, and I let it influence me. Plus Calvin invents a bunch of gadgets for himself all the time. But hey, in the overactive imagination of a 7 year old boy like Calvin, he's likely to see himself as a sort of omni-hero, like a cross between Superman and Batman.
GR is correct Fallout Boy is the sidekick of Radioactive Man, not Captain Atom. And why again is he cleared based on PM shenanigans? You think a scum couldn't pick a quote for his false-claim? Or find a youtube clip?
It doesn't have to be Infinis, but I'm of the opinion that it's most likely Infinis. I feel neutral alignment best explains his behavior this game. He was roleblocked Night 1, during which there were no kills instead of two (one of which is already accounted for). The inaccuracy of the flavor of his claim (he mixed up who he was a sidekick of, and was off by a long shot) gives me the feeling he made it up rather than read it from his PM. All in all I think the odds are very good that he's the SK, and by extension the best lynch today.
Scum can make careless mistakes too. In DDay Mafia I erroneously claimed to have targeted Pale Mage with my roleblock because I was working off memory rather than going back and checking which targets I had submitted to Stormblind. I'll concede that what you're saying is possible, but I'd say it's a null tell at best, rather than a townie tell.
States that Infinis claiming to be the sidekick of "Captain Atom" was a scum slip, loran argues, he concedes the point. Overall, null.
That might be a fair assessment if he hadn't specified that the reason he didn't put it in was that youtube was blocked from work.
That was the first place somebody specifically accused him of being the SK, I believe. But I have no problem owning up to being the first to suggest he was neutral in this post here on Day 1.
@Ged: I sympathize with you. I'm sure you're frustrated with the current discussion, but unfortunately this is like one of those "the jury will disregard that statement" situations. Infinis shouldn't have posted what he did, but now that he has we can't un-read it.
My top picks are still JqlGirl and AH. There's something that's increasingly bugging me though that I need to think about. I'll post more on that after I review tonight.
This is what I was being bugged by at the start of the day. I didn't want to say anything until both Cubus and GR had both checked in. But yeah, the fact that Cubus has not been blocked or killed seems unusual. The possibility of a Godfather role is becoming more and more likely.
I don't like the way he suggests a GF, but I was equally puzzled by Cubus being alive at this point.
That's a reasonable point, though it does risk venturing into the realm of "gaming the mod". Anyway, I'm DTF :link:. Shall we put an end to our brain-stealing associate?
Agrees that GF is unlikely based on the mafia having an Acsetic.
We've downed 3 scum and we've got the SK on the chopping block.
Given we're still seeing a role-block + mafia kill, there's two mafia left unless GR is a lying scum.
GR has claimed tracker, tracked SoP Night 1, has attempted to track andelijah each night since but has been role-blocked.
Cubus is an investigative role of some kind, got a scum result on SO Night 1, has not revealed any investigation info since then, has also not apparently suffered any role-blocks or death since then.
We will be lynching JqlGirl today. If there are two scum left, we're going to be at LyLo tomorrow barring a protect or something.
Question: Is this a reasonable point to do a mass-claim?
I believe Roja has to be one of the remaining scum. Roja claims to have tried to kill SoP, but was told he only killed an "image" of him. The problem here is that there's nothing to account for that.
Tilde's role-block from that night was almost certainly on SoP. SoP would have had no reason to lie about it, because if he did he could simply have been counter-claimed by the person who really got role-blocked. Not to mention the whole "I thought I attacked him but was in a daze" bit doesn't fit with Infinis' description of Tilde's role-block. GR claimed to have been role-blocked that night as well. So the town and scum role-blocks are accounted for. If an ability caused Roja to kill an "image", it would have had to have been an ability of one of the two remaining scum. But neither of them could have done it Night 2 because there was a scum role-block and a scum kill despite SoP being blocked. The conclusion I draw here is that there's no way a scum could have prevented Roja from killing SoP, and there are no townie abilities that could account for what happened. I therefore must conclude that Roja is scum.
vote Roja
I'm still having a hard time with the idea that Roja couldn have been blocked, because it does make sense, but I don't believe we can work off the assumptions here. In other words, I still think Roja is town, but I can see where TMT is coming from.
What I'm saying is that, given the actions and roles that have been claimed, there's simply no room for whatever would have kept you from killing SoP, barring a few unlikely scenarios. To clarify, the only way you could have shot at SoP but failed is if:
A) Tilde blocked you Night 2.
B) GR is lying scum and either he or his remaining teammate blocked you Night 2.
C) The scum have a redirect, and redirected Tilde's block to you.
D) The scum had a preemptive ability used on SoP Night 1 that protected him or role-blocked you on Night 2.
Point A seems horribly unlikely to me. If you go back and read Day 2, particularly Tilde's posts Day 2, it makes absolutely no sense for Tilde to have targeted you.
Point B also makes no sense. Scum role-blocking you over Cubus is ridiculous unless Cubus is also scum. But both GR and Cubus being scum and selling out two teammates on Day 2 to attempt to secure the end-game seems like a terribly risky gambit, considering how easily it could go south due to a cop counter-claim or a cross-kill from the SK.
Point C suffers from the same problems as B. There's simply no way they would have chosen you over Cubus.
Point D is ridiculous as well, as it means the scum either had both an ascetic and a protect, or they had an ascetic and an extra role-block.
That's the only possibilities. Given the kills, claimed roles and claimed actions, I can see no other possibilities existing. I find the four above scenarios less likely than the idea of you being scum, therefore my vote stands.
I don't know what to think at this point. The situation with Roja's failed shot still bothers the hell out of me, but I find myself increasingly uneasy about the whole CC/andelijah thing. I would really like for CC to give an explanation for his Night 1 action.
I keep thinking I must be missing something though. With all the claimed actions (both done by and done to), I keep thinking we should be able to narrow things down better. All I manage to keep coming up with is that Roja's situation doesn't add up, and I still have a hard time imagining that a 19 player game would have an SK and a 5-man mafia with an ascetic, a role-blocker, and a doc. Something here simply is not adding up.
The way he starts feeling "uneasy" about ande and I looks once again like he's testing the waters, while also repeating what others have said. We can't all three be scum.
The problem I have with CC's plan is that it hinges on us having "three lynches available". But that's only true if there's only one scum left. If there are two scum left, we only have two lynches available (2 mis-lynches + 2 night-kills = end game of 2 scum + 1 town). And unless we're willing to believe GR is scum, there have to be two scum left to account for everything that has happened. GR gambitting as scum is the only way there can be only one scum left, as far as I can see.
It has to do with my disputing your assertion that Roja is clear. Or you, for that matter. I know I'm town, and your plan involves lynching me if andelijah flips town. In a two scum scenario, I know 100% that equals a loss for the town. Lynching andelijah and seeing him flip scum would be nice, but I'm not signing off on a plan that hinges entirely on that happening.
His response to my idea of lynching ande/TMT/loran. The obvious way to respond, he doesn't want to be lynched.
So, points against TMT.
1. Usually attacks low hanging fruit. There was a bit that looks like distancing with Some One at the start of the game, and he joined the wagon against Cyan, but other then that it's been Jql and Infinis, with a side of Tilde and AH.
2. Tends to repeat what other's have said. Looks a lot like plain sight lurking. A lot of the time, a topic comes up, TMT goes "Hmm..." or something to that effect, everyone else gives their opinion, and then TMT restates what everyone else said as if it were his own thoughts. See above MassClaim Barning, RE Cyan's Claim, RE andelijah, and to lesser extent, CCCYYYAAAANNN WWWAAAGGGOONNN.
3. Strange assertion that Infinis would be Neutral on Day 1. This smells too much like a scum trying to hunt the other scum to get brownie points.
And question if Andel is truthful how will this make CC confirmed? Basicly it would confirm that CC could protect right?
It confirms that CropCircles has the ability to send a shirt that granted me an "extra life" (quotes because apparently it doesn't). However, it still grants me one shot night kill immunity, which, in a game that at best has a 1-shot vig and SK, is unlikely to be a scum ability.
RE Roja: I was hoping for a better description, but, *shrug*
It actually makes sense that Tilde blocked Roja, for a couple of reasons.
I disagree, as Roja makes it seem like his shot was successful. Based on the description, there is no way I could see that being a roleblock (a protect of some sort... maybe, unlikely though).
Another question: On day 1, loran decided that Cyan was town and that The Mad Tapper was scum. How does this fit into your theory that they are buddies? Surely if loran was willing to bus one partner, he'd jump on the other just as easily, no?
It confirms that CropCircles has the ability to send a shirt that granted me an "extra life" (quotes because apparently it doesn't). However, it still grants me one shot night kill immunity, which, in a game that at best has a 1-shot vig and SK, is unlikely to be a scum ability.
Im sorry when I said confirmed the first time I was more thinking Confirmed Town. You are right the extra life would prove that CC gave it to you.
@ CC I didn't receieve a long message on what happened overnight. I have danced around what I could post without it seeming exact.
Also CC why did you give this "extra life" to Andel and not DYH night 1?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
I'm conflicted here on the ande-roja situation, to a point.
I'm not sure i trust ande. On the other hand, i think i can't see him and CC planning a gambit like this starting on day 2. Neither player needs to gambit to win as scum, and the scum were never really threatened, as far as i can tell, by any of the claim shenanigans we did.
So for now, i'd like to leave them both alone. I also think Roja is probably town. I have a hard time seeing a danger mafia game without at least a vig of some type.
As for Mad Tapper, well, i actually still like that angle. I really haven't paid great attentiont hte last few days, but i thought he was definitely scum on day 1, and cc's recap only helps me believe i'm right.
Vote TheMadTapper
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
We have a deadline WITH people who need some prodding.
Can I get a MODPROD on Goatrevolt (Last post 04/07/09) And one on TMT (Last post 04/12/09).
I understand that real life gets in the way however with the impending deadline I would like to see and here what EVERYONE thinks before the stopwatch hits zero.
I would like to hear CC answer the question on why to protect Andel and not DYH (Or anyone else I guess) overnight 1.
I would also like to hear what TMT has to answer for the case brought up to him from CC.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thanks goes out to DarkNightCavalier and XenoNinja
We didnt have daytalk, and when i did my recap, i changed my mind on that (see day 2).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
CC, have you claimed what you gave Andelijah/DYH?
Is there a reason this is still hidden information?
I think Roja is town. I think his vig claim fits.
916
998
1003
1025
Those posts suggest that he is both a vig, and that something happened to him which may have prevented him from shooting Spot successfully.
916 looks like "Hey, I'm the vig, and I'm shooting spot tonight." 1003 and 1025 look like "Hey, I don't believe spot was roleblocked because I tried to kill him and it failed, thus I think he's lying about that."
Waiting on Andelijah and CC to claim everything regarding their interactions.
I don't think Roja is scum, I believe his claim and I think it fits with his play. TMT I'm iffy on, he's a wildcard for me at the moment.
Loran has struck me as townie all game.
Andelijah has played more pro-town as of late, but I still can't get over his interaction/stance in regards to me. CC has slid through this game essentially unnoticed, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him as scum, and I think him giving spot an item to save spot's life would not be out of the question at all as for why Roja didn't successfully decapitate our dearly beloved spot o' prey.
I wasn't RBed by Tilde. There is nothing in my PM that says I was attacked. I started in a daze and "killed" SP. With everything claimed I do not know how my shot was stopped. (Or preveneted or however you want to look at it.)
Masons and Neighbors in the same game? What is the difference between the two roles?
Spot was found day 1 shooting a prevented player. His claim of Vig I thought was bull.
Elegant? Why use that word?
This is my first game where Ged is teh host.
I think so. Being able to kill anyone in the game of mafia I feel is very important. I wouldn't want to be responcable solely on the town losing because I shot and killed someone that would have helped us go for a win. Just because Me myself didn't beleive them / didn't agree with them. It's the same as taking 10 people's decision to lynch in the hands of one person. I find it very important.
Check above.
Scum looking to find out if im a noob. Why doesn't that sit right?
I was on a this voting spree. By request of Goat and DYH.
You don't like it, and cannot say why?
Umm I went on to read about DYH next. What is wrong with me trying to see both sides of the story.
And you are wrong I voted here and here.
And even on Geds final vote list.
Well if your info about me is wrong then I would have to say that your logic is wrong.
So you don't see Andel and CC as masons? Besides the "item" transfer why else would you see this. Also See above to andel.
This was supposed to be in where he was wrong about my voting.
FOS Andelijah.
I'll need to read Andel, however the thing that is sticking out was how he conviced us that Infinis could be the Sk. Granted then it made sence, but after his comments about me im thinking more about it now.
Very little. The only real difference is that masons are typically both pro-town and there is generally mod confirmation on that, whereas neighbors are just 2 players that can communicate with no info on the other's alignment.
It would a little ridiculous for me to see them as masons considering they didn't claim to be masons, eh?
Also, I'm remembering CC's lists from early in the game where he puts Andelijah as a "Serial Killer." Not really a standard mason play.
The reason I had thought they might be masons is because they basically kept beating around about how they thought the other was town, etc, making it blatantly obvious it was based on role.
Still waiting on them to claim their info.
I've been busy, but I'd still like time to read up and make a case on someone. Just give me a couple of days.
[The Family]
CC, two questions:
1. Why Andelijah?
2. Why wouldn't you give out the lie detector first?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Considering there are 7 players left, and probably 2 scum, not revealing the ability and getting shot gives us, at best, an extra no-lynch.
CropCircles gave me a second life on night 1. Lynching me twice will probably lose the game.
I'll respond to other stuff in a bit.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
HOLD ON HOLD ON HOLD ON.
Cropcircles gave you, a player whom he had no information on, a SECOND life on the first day.
Then when you hadnt had one of your lives used yet, decided to give his inspection ability to A DIFFERENT PLAYER?
Never mind the fact that Giving out the double life before an inspect makes little sense in the first place.
I Call SHENANIGANS.
FOS Andelijah&Cropcircles.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
The only possible answer for this I could see is you targeted Cubus, who has the only bit of unclaimed information left that could possibly cause your ability to fail.
You just explained why it is important for you to hit scum, not why your role itself is important.
Why would a scum care if you're noob or not? Easy pressure should be easy pressure. He seems to be giving you an out to several questions aimed your way, not trying to determine whether to pressure you or not.
That's my point. I don't understand why you felt compelled to obey their wishes.
Too many questions, not enough purpose.
You voted Cyan during the two high points of his wagon, and held your vote off while the pressure was off of him. My point is you pressured him to look good, not because you thought he was scum (if you thought he was scum, you would have kept your vote on).
My information is perfectly correct.
My point was you made a post proving Cyan was scum, yet you didn't vote him. Hell, you even gave him a cheesy out, saying
Let's paraphrase:
"The only thing holding me back is he's acting exactly like he does as scum."
Good logic.
WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA OMG OMG OMG WAIT!
Lynch me if you must. I won't die. You will be proven completely wrong and waste a lynch.
I will add, though, that his decision to give me a second life probably stemmed from the fact that I was clearly not mafia after voting for and pushing towards Cyan the entire day.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Or you're a double life mafia....this is not something that is difficult to believe these days...and its something that can easily be claimed as the result of an invention.
Oh see, fine, I have no problem with him giving you a gift. But if i had those two abilities to give, my thought process is as followed:
Either 1:
"I'm going to give double life first, then inspect to that same person i think is very likely town if they haven't been attacked yet."
or
2. "Give out inspect in case i die early so as to give the town an edge."
Not: Give out double life night 1 to player 1 i think is town, DO NOTHING on night 2 and then give out cop inspect on night 3 to another player i think is town.
Seriously, explain to me the logic there.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I prefer to just go with the logic of
"I'm town. CropCircles gave me a second life. CropCircles is town."
All that leaves is proving the initial premise, which I did handily day 1. Despite the Numegil wagon, I repeatedly requested to move back to a Cyan wagon. Busing (!) Cyan (!!) on day 1 (!!!) is not the play to make as mafia. You are basically assuming I went into the day with the expressed purpose of getting rid of one of my better scumbuddies, in experience, role, and influence.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
I'm not assuming anything. Nor am i assuming lynching Cyan makes you town.
I want CC to answer this, but you should at least appreciate the lack of logic in his claimed actions. If you were CC and thought you (Andelijah) was town and you could gift these two abilities.
This makes less sense than Chewbacca living on Endor.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I'm thinking Andelijah + CC. I think that "2nd life" was a gift to spot of prey. Makes sense, no?
See to me this looks like more fishing to get info on Cubus. I shot Spot. Spot didn't play dead.
And I did hit scum. The role itself is the power.. You give a loaded gun to the wrong person and "accidents" happen. Are you saying I am wrong for thinking this way about being a vig/1shot vig?
I cannot explain the actions of Some One.. However to me it just looks like how he plays.
Why would I want to be so difficult with others? It was harmless and I thought that they thought I had a PR or Voting restriction. Why not disprove that thought at once?
I like to ask questions. It helps me think.
And what is wrong with seeing both sides of the coin on day 1? This is Day 1 we are talking about. Im still trying to get the vibe of everyone. At the time I wanted to make sure I had info on DYH as well should anything scummy come his way later (like if he was wrong). I found no such stuff on his posting habbits and thus voting Cyan again..
You saying I didn't vote Cyan again is wrong. I did. It's just not where you would like it to be.
So im wrong for thinking that someone who I consider a good player not to make the same dumb mistake he did when he was scum the first time? I went out and formed my own opinion of Cyan and DYH. And when I had the data from both parties I moved forward.. with a vote on Cyan...
This is for CC more then you, but why Andel and not DYH?
Makes sence to me. VOTE Andelijah
andelijah - 2 (Cubus, Roja)
Roja - 2 (The Mad Tapper, andelijah)
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
Deadline set for Wednesday, April 15th at 6:30PM CST.
See here's what I'm struggling with. I think Roja is town. His response makes sense to me. However, this pattern of responses here means that if Ande and CC ARE faking this whole thing, it's been a gambit since DAY 2. Which is also hard to believe.
Which means in my thoughts i'm running out of clear suspects...which is why we need things cleared up:
FIRST----CC, Why did you give the cop investigation only on night 3 and do nothing on night 2. In addition, why give out the double life first? Explain your thought process here.
SECOND----Cubus, explain your role. Enough with the hiding, its not helping matters and you havent shown any evidence of helping us in recent days, despite not being roleblocked.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
If the time comes and I feel the game needs it, the deadline will be extended.
1) I have a second life. This is indisputable. Lynching me will prove it, if you must. Therefore it cannot have been given to spotofprey.
2) The flavor of my second life is a shirt. A piece of clothing gives me the ability to evade a kill once. That has nothing to do with being in a daze.
You "shot" spotofprey. Nothing could of happened to you that night. spotofprey isn't dead.
You still haven't answered the question of "why is a 1-shot vig important?"
I like questions too. However they have to have a purpose, something which I don't see in that post.
You voted him in 281, and were the 7th voter (out of 10). You unvoted immediately after the votecount in 296 - right before the soft claim.
You posted your analysis on 448, when there were one on Cyan (myself).
I made my post in 481 requesting pressure back on Cyan after the modkill of Numegil. The wagon reassembles to 8 or 9 votes/FoSes, whereupon you vote him in 601, unvote in 602, and vote yet again in 605.
So, you voted him when he was approaching claim range, didn't vote him despite a pretty slam dunk case when he was at only one vote, and voted again once he got back towards a lynch.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
Imagine my suprise.
I answered you already, putting the ability to kill a player in this game I find very important.
Yes at 296 my reasons for voting Cyan were based that I thought he came out and said 'lynch me'.
This reasoning wasen't right and I went to investigate further.
So you are saying I should follow the crowd and not formulate my own opinion?
Post 448 was on Feb 18th. Post 601-605 was Feb 23rd. Minus the weekend as Im usually not here. It took me 2 days to compile up my info on DYH and COMPLETE my thought on the matter...
I voted when I finished my look on DYH and when I was back here to post my results.
Loran are you saying that you find it hard to beleive that scum would start a gambit day 2? Why is that hard to believe?
You did nothing but follow the crowd.
You voted with 6 others on the wagon.
You made a case and didn't vote when 1 other was on the wagon.
You voted with 7-8 others on the wagon.
See a pattern? You only voted Cyan when he was being pressured.
What in your read of DYH could have made your case against Cyan any less relevant?
The case was standalone. Yet you didn't vote because it looked like Cyan might make it through the day.
Time stamps indicate I got the shirt about ten minutes before day started. Flavor suggests I woke up to receive the shirt, which seems to imply I would have died had I gotten shot that night.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
So what about being a Vig/1shot not an important role? (Since I see you had no more comments about what I thought I wanna know what you think.)
First off you should know by now that I don't vote unless I am sure I am voting for scum. That is how I have played this game from the start.. (The game of mafia) I wasen't 100% sure about the case on Cyan. After I did MY homework I agree with what others were saying. So my timing was wrong?
Well it was all about Metagaming another player.. not knowing how Cyan or DYH "usually" play I needed to find out for myself. And I did.
The case was standalone.. meaning what? You are putting reasons why I didn't do something when it goes against how I play.
Even if it did, it's not useful for much other than speeding up a counterclaim or information process. Normal vigs are decent due to their ability to fire at whoever the player finds suspicious. 1-shot vigs do not have that luxury.
If you don't vote unless you are sure... why do you unvote the first time?
You made a case on Cyan. Then, without any new information about him, you decided to vote him later. If your reasoning for the vote was your case, like it seems to be, then why not vote with the case? If you had new information on the case when making your vote, why not reveal it?
Instead, you made a case, waited, and then voted. In the meantime, nothing new happened with Cyan.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
I keep thinking I must be missing something though. With all the claimed actions (both done by and done to), I keep thinking we should be able to narrow things down better. All I manage to keep coming up with is that Roja's situation doesn't add up, and I still have a hard time imagining that a 19 player game would have an SK and a 5-man mafia with an ascetic, a role-blocker, and a doc. Something here simply is not adding up.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
So in general you feel that Vigs are important and 1shots are not?
I read into something that wasen't there.
The new information you are referring to is me myself finding out about the main attacker on Cyan, DYH. Which I did post. And thus voted for Cyan afterwards. (Even again after checking Prehistoric again.)
I started a case, provided more info on the case and then voted when I had all of the facts on the case. (Between those two that is.)
Ande was the player I was reading strongest as pro-town at the end of day 1. This is largely due to how obvscum he was in VR.
I wanted a more solid target for the LD, and I feel it's an item that is better suited for later in the game. Investigations early game are very likely to end up on players who will end up dead by the end game anyway, and the endgame is where investigations are most usefull, as even if they don't directly out a scum, the PoE use is usually even better. The Bullet Proof vest is more likely to block a kill earlier in the game, thus more useful early game.
My understanding of the item was that it didn't protect against lynches, just killing abilities.
Ande seems to have interpreted it differently(or is just plain lying), so I've PM'd the mod, as the wording in my Role PM is ambiguous.Ged is fast - the Vest doesn't protect against lynches. At any rate, there is nothing wrong with the way I played it.Oh, okay. So you're going to teach me mafia theory now, huh?
Way to completely take the situation out of context, BTW. At the end of Day 2, there was that whole mess with Spot/Goat/DYH, remember? The LD is best if used later in the game, espeicially if I could snag the double investigation available: clear me in addition to getting the alignment of whoever is investigated. But on Day 2, the only cleared players were players who had claimed abilities - bit of a waste to give investigative roles an investigation, no? And with all those claimed investigators, I figured it was a pretty small chance that I was gonna get shot, so I held onto it to go for the big swing.
I refuse to accept that the mafia couldn't have had a way to block the kill on spot. The thought process makes sense, but if he's scum, then we wouldn't have had any killing roles in the town, which seems just as unlikely to me as the mafia being able to use abilities in the same night that they make a kill. One for and one against as far as set-up speculation goes, and meanwhile, I've been reading him as pro-town since Day 1.
If we consider Cubus, goat, and Roja as clear, then that leaves myself, ande, loran, and TMT, with three lynches available to us. We can clear me by lynching ande, so if we lynch ande, loran, and TMT, I believe we will win. The only way I see this failing is if we lynch ande and he comes up scum, then my confirmation goes down the hole. If you guys lynch me at that point, then you'll have to choose between TMT and loran, and wrong choice means game over. But even in that scenario, I think TMT is overwhelmingly more likey to be scum, and I'm confident you guys see that too.
I propose the following.
10 CLS
20 Lynch andelijah
30 If andelijah = Town then Lynch TMT + loran
40 Else Lynch CC + TMT
Thoughts?
[The Family]
I'm not sure I like Roja living.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Do you really suspect we don't have any town killing roles?
[The Family]
loran voted Some One and spotofprey day 2, and The Mad Tapper voted Cyan, JqlGirl, and Some One day 1. I would lynch The Mad Tapper over loran due to his last post.
I suppose it could have been an elaborate busing strategy, but I'm not sure if I'm ready to make that conclusion yet.
Of course, if I'm lynched, its not like we have much margin for error on the situation, but from my perspective Roja > TMT > loran = 95% win.
I wouldn't have expected it from the beginning of the game, but a 1-shot vig is not much to support the entire town with, and the scum having the ability to counter a kill would have been designed nearly specifically for the SK, and that doesn't seem right either.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
It's not like there isn't something to comment on. CropCircles proposed a plan, and it hardly only impacts me.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
It hinges on me, Cubus, Goat, and Roja being town. If two of the three remaining players are scum, and we lynch two of the three remaining players...my math may be a bit fuzzy, but I'm having a hard time seeing where you think we'll get two mislynches there.
[The Family]
It has to do with my disputing your assertion that Roja is clear. Or you, for that matter. I know I'm town, and your plan involves lynching me if andelijah flips town. In a two scum scenario, I know 100% that equals a loss for the town. Lynching andelijah and seeing him flip scum would be nice, but I'm not signing off on a plan that hinges entirely on that happening.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
There are 2 options. I'm town, and I'm scum. Surely you can come up with a plan of action for two scenarios.
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Roja, can you give us a more detailed explination of your "roleblock" on Night 2?
This could be important.
[The Family]
Just so ya know.
[The Family]
Like I said, I started the night in a daze and I clapped with awesome force onot the one known as Spot and his head was blown off.
And question if Andel is truthful how will this make CC confirmed? Basicly it would confirm that CC could protect right?
Ow.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
It actually makes sense that Tilde blocked Roja, for a couple of reasons.
First off all, when Infinis was blocked, he said nothing about being hit on the head. Just "lights out."
When spot claimed, it was a bit different.
When asked if this lined up, Infinis said...
This actually lines up more with Roja's claim. Specifically that he was in a "daze" without any sign of attack.
So, why the attack of a precieved "image?" It actually makes sense, once you consider the fact that Roja is claiming a one shot ability. He's got one use, if he gets blocked and never leaves his home, there's no flavor reason for why his one use is used up. Whereas from a mechanics standpoint, usually when a limited use ability is blocked, it still uses up a shot. Ged probably just wrote the flavor such that Roja still used his ability to explain why he doen't have a shot left.
Infinis' roleblock made no mention of an actual attack, and then Tilde comes out and says he's The Shoveler, and then spot claims flavor of being hit on the head. Infinis even refuted that that was what the RB looked like! Based on that alone, it doesn't look like spot was telling the truth. He was just making up what he thought The Shovler's RoleBlock would look like.
And really, there was no reason for him to be telling the truth. A lot of people wanted Tilde to block spot, but at the end of the Day, Tilde said that he wanted to see who Some One's alignment was before deciding, implying that he hadn't decided to follow the town's wishes. Meanwhile, the scum had no reason to believe that Spot was going to last the night. They had to assume that there was a real Vig out there, which would mean that spot was going to show up dead in the morning. When he didn't, he no doubt had to come up with something on the fly, since he had claimed to be a vig who was going to target Goat, and Goat was still alive.
What was he going to claim, other then a roleblock?
So. Haven't done a PBPA in forever, but here goes. In my complete reread, out of Roja, ande, loran, and TMT, I found that TMT stuck out the most to me. This may be too out of context for you to get the jist of where I'm coming from, but I how it'll help see my point of view.
The FOS on Jql here is sound, her response to Cyan's claim was TERRIBLE.
Not a fan of the "our side" thing either.
The next part, where he says spot is the play, is interesting because it seems out of nowhere and without reason. More on that in a sec.
So, points against TMT.
1. Usually attacks low hanging fruit. There was a bit that looks like distancing with Some One at the start of the game, and he joined the wagon against Cyan, but other then that it's been Jql and Infinis, with a side of Tilde and AH.
2. Tends to repeat what other's have said. Looks a lot like plain sight lurking. A lot of the time, a topic comes up, TMT goes "Hmm..." or something to that effect, everyone else gives their opinion, and then TMT restates what everyone else said as if it were his own thoughts. See above MassClaim Barning, RE Cyan's Claim, RE andelijah, and to lesser extent, CCCYYYAAAANNN WWWAAAGGGOONNN.
3. Strange assertion that Infinis would be Neutral on Day 1. This smells too much like a scum trying to hunt the other scum to get brownie points.
[The Family]
I disagree, as Roja makes it seem like his shot was successful. Based on the description, there is no way I could see that being a roleblock (a protect of some sort... maybe, unlikely though).
Another question: On day 1, loran decided that Cyan was town and that The Mad Tapper was scum. How does this fit into your theory that they are buddies? Surely if loran was willing to bus one partner, he'd jump on the other just as easily, no?
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
Im sorry when I said confirmed the first time I was more thinking Confirmed Town. You are right the extra life would prove that CC gave it to you.
@ CC I didn't receieve a long message on what happened overnight. I have danced around what I could post without it seeming exact.
Also CC why did you give this "extra life" to Andel and not DYH night 1?
Confirmed sending me a NK immunity shirt confirms that he is town. Why is that not a logical conclusion?
Salvation Mafia Clan
Mafia Stats
last updated 03/23/11
The protection against Spotofprey.
andelijah - 2 (Cubus, Roja)
Roja - 2 (The Mad Tapper, andelijah)
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch. Deadline is set for Saturday, April 18th at approximately 1:00PM CST.
I'm not sure i trust ande. On the other hand, i think i can't see him and CC planning a gambit like this starting on day 2. Neither player needs to gambit to win as scum, and the scum were never really threatened, as far as i can tell, by any of the claim shenanigans we did.
So for now, i'd like to leave them both alone. I also think Roja is probably town. I have a hard time seeing a danger mafia game without at least a vig of some type.
As for Mad Tapper, well, i actually still like that angle. I really haven't paid great attentiont hte last few days, but i thought he was definitely scum on day 1, and cc's recap only helps me believe i'm right.
Vote TheMadTapper
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
We have a deadline WITH people who need some prodding.
Can I get a MODPROD on Goatrevolt (Last post 04/07/09) And one on TMT (Last post 04/12/09).
I understand that real life gets in the way however with the impending deadline I would like to see and here what EVERYONE thinks before the stopwatch hits zero.
I would like to hear CC answer the question on why to protect Andel and not DYH (Or anyone else I guess) overnight 1.
I would also like to hear what TMT has to answer for the case brought up to him from CC.