On gender claiming: I think that if you really want to do it, you should specifically ask the mod about it. The manga (and I believe the book as well) show very few or no instances where males and females who were playing the game (killing their classmates) cooperated. Depending on how closely the mod follows flavour, this likely means that the mafia will be either all male or all female, and so a mass gender claim will help break the game. Having said that, though, and for the same reasons, I'd be in favour of the gender claim if allowed.
On mass-claim/mass-lynch: definitely not today. Think about this: if this tactic can work, then it can probably work anytime. We don't need to rush into it. It'll still be valid on Day 3, and likely for a while after that, and by that time we'll have a better sense of who is or is not confirmed townie. We can revisit this at that point.
On Emo Pinata: He's obviously adjusting his posting style based on what he's been reading and the feedback he's been getting today. The question is, does that make him scum? I'm not convinced by the cases presented so far, so I'm not going to vote him right now. If he acts scummy later, though, this is definitely being entered as Exhibit A.
@Emo Pinata: note that any form of lurking later on will be considered scummy. If we have to start pushing you to get opinions and positions out of you, that's the worst thing you can do from my perspective, short of claiming scum.
On multiple lynches per day: we obviously want at least one lynch per day, so failing to lynch would be ungood. I'd be okay with multiple lynches on any given day, but each one has to be justified seperately. We aren't getting ahead on the scum if we indiscriminately off townies.
Also, I'm against an attempt to end the game by mass-lynch on day 1. In a vacuum, the odds favor us; there is more of us than them, meaning we'd be most likely to be the ones left standing. However, that doesn't account for tricky scum-abilities, or scum manipulation (which would be much stronger in this scenario). If we lynch all at once, we get no info from the lynches, we have no idea how close we get to lylo, and our ability to determine good lynches decreases with every lynch we make.
On the other hand, lynching a handful of players day 1 might not be a bad idea. It would give us a ton of info to work with day 2, while limiting scum controlled kills.
Until you know for sure (which you don't) that this is better for the town, then you should keep your trap shut about this.
Ok well thanks for telling me that after the fact. And if you haven't noticed, I'm actively not posting as much as I did in Star Trek mafia (after I realized that I was the most frequent poster in that with 17% of the posts).
No one calculates best case scenarios and plans according to them.
Why not? If it calculates to like a 1% odd, why would not plan based upon the low odds and not do it?
Bloody poor reasoning then, to jump onto a forming wagon.
It made sense to me. I'm getting a feeling that I don't think the same way as a regular mafia player... but apparently it works, so I must be doing something right.
Are you personally attacking me or are you saying that I made a personal attack?
What I'm saying is that I was so horrible at the IRC version of mafia that I got banned from the MTGS IRC Mafia channel, but apparently I'm great at the forum version.
Oh? How about vanilla town? Or weak town power roles?
If he is vanilla, or close to it, that wouldn't explain his attitude. He clearly wanted to avoid an argument and stay out of any trouble. This is most common from power roles and scum.
You should do the same of me. I sure am hell defending EP right now.
You didn't do the waiting to see bit, which makes all the difference. (If you think someone is town, why would you ever wait to defend them if you saw a valid counterargument?) Skander's play sounds like a scum partner looking for some reason to support EP before he can post his defense of EP.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
On mass-claim/mass-lynch: definitely not today. Think about this: if this tactic can work, then it can probably work anytime. We don't need to rush into it. It'll still be valid on Day 3, and likely for a while after that, and by that time we'll have a better sense of who is or is not confirmed townie. We can revisit this at that point.
The thing is though, on Day 1, the scums are in the blind as well on the town's power roles and structure, something of which grows less and less with each subsequent block. On the other hand, the town is always perpetually in the dark about the scums, and we are only afforded a glimpse of it with our first lynched scum. Essentially, the scums are at their most vulnerable on the first Day as well.
EDIT: Maybe the above apply only to crypto-claims. Ah well.
If he is vanilla, or close to it, that wouldn't explain his attitude. He clearly wanted to avoid an argument and stay out of any trouble. This is most common from power roles and scum.
If he was indeed doing what you're alluding, then he wouldn't be in the current situation. And your method of classification is not entirely correct.
@Seppel: I meant the latter. Also, the vote is staying.
If he is vanilla, or close to it, that wouldn't explain his attitude. He clearly wanted to avoid an argument and stay out of any trouble. This is most common from power roles and scum.
This was painful to read. Was it not obvious what TheFooFish was saying that you had to ask TWICE?
You didn't do the waiting to see bit, which makes all the difference. (If you think someone is town, why would you ever wait to defend them if you saw a valid counterargument?) Skander's play sounds like a scum partner looking for some reason to support EP before he can post his defense of EP.
Yeah well, let's see what Skander has to say to this first.
Mod: If a win occurs at the end of the day, will abilities that would normally trigger at the end of a block still trigger?
Once a player is lynched they are dead, their role just isn't revealed. If at any point one faction has the game won and their win conditions are met, the game is over. Ex: If there was only one mafia player left and the rest town, s/he submitted a kill and then was lynched, the game would be over as even after the mafia kill there would be no other factions remaining. It will come down to win conditions, basically.
Regarding Dagger, given that there was no edit notice at the bottom of the post I will have to say no modkill, but I would recommend players be more careful with their wordings in posts.
TheFooFish is dead, their collar detonated for being caught in a forbidden zone.
It's a scenario, not an argument. And what you were trying to illustrate is that the game stopt after a side wins. It had nothing to do with mass-claiming causing a loss.
I was saying that there are odds that it will cause a loss, and as far as I can tell, you aren't putting any effort toward calculating those odds.
Yeah, well, usually scums aren't going to flat-out tell everyone that they're scum, so finding hidden meanings behind their words is probably the best way to catch 'em, no?
No. You look for inconsistencies, not "hidden meanings."
No, for redirecting attention to lurkers while EP's got the most votes. You were on his wagon yourself, but apparently felt the need to jump off it to draw attention to lurkers.
I'm not even voting for kpaca any more. FINE.
Unvote
Vote Emo_Pinata
Well, I've reached my self-imposed post limit, so I'll see you guys in a few hours.
The thing is though, on Day 1, the scums are in the blind as well on the town's power roles and structure, something of which grows less and less with each subsequent block. On the other hand, the town is always perpetually in the dark about the scums, and we are only afforded a glimpse of it with our first lynched scum. Essentially, the scums are at their most vulnerable on the first Day as well.
Ah - so the idea is that the mass-claim on Day 1 is most likely to find scum. You aren't thinking about confirmed townies so much as confirmed scum.
Well... I still don't like the idea. I don't think we're going to have enough trustworthy information to lynch the entire town without a misstep giving the scum a win at some point in the process.
On TheFooFish: bah. Kind of early in the block for a daykill, though... I'd have thought that anyone willing to kill at this point would have some incentive to hold off for a while.
Ah - so the idea is that the mass-claim on Day 1 is most likely to find scum. You aren't thinking about confirmed townies so much as confirmed scum.
Well... I still don't like the idea. I don't think we're going to have enough trustworthy information to lynch the entire town without a misstep giving the scum a win at some point in the process.
On TheFooFish: bah. Kind of early in the block for a daykill, though... I'd have thought that anyone willing to kill at this point would have some incentive to hold off for a while.
On mass-claiming: I still disagree. I don't see how claiming gender gets us anywhere, seeing as there were both murderous males and females within the book. I just don't see it working to any advantage. I'd say it gives the scum an advantage in trying to determine power roles.
I don't believe that was a daykill. Then again, bluesoul hasn't mentioned anything about forbidden zones, so who knows.
Because he can easily confirm himself as town.
Following what crowd? I was the first one to vote Emo Pinata. If anything, the crowd followed me. And I did have a reason for voting Emo Pinata. I usually vote people who die-roll in the random-voting stage. And his posts after that weren't very good either.
Did you ever happen to run into a game where the town lost after a day 1 massclaim? Because I have never seen such a game. However, there was a game run by Apokalypse Kid here that was won on day 2 thanks to a day 1 massclaim.
Hey! It ended day 4 or 5 or something. It may have effectively ended day 2, but technically...
There was also this game on MtgN where we half-massclaimed on day 1, and it totally screwed the scum over, too.
I'm just wondering if choices are sent in pre-emptively or if abilities are actually day-actions. It's not really clear from my role.
There might not be anything in the rules about it, but the mod said we ought to play as if we didn't actually have a name, so I suppose no gender either. Although he didn't respond to the plan.. The 27th person is Mr. Something, who guides the group. I could see him being a neutral of some sort.
Why do we need to decide that already? We'll just keep playing until we reach the deadline, and lynch as much as seems necessary.
Simply put, there are less nights if we lynch more. Normally, the night should be advantageous for the scum, as the day is where the town's biggest weapon is used. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that having less nights is good for the town.
-
So, what about my plan? I've heard almost no one respond to it.
Mass-claim, followed by mass-lynch today ( Y / N )
@Cubus: The problem with your plan is that if we mass-lynch in the wrong order, the scum win.
That's we the massclaim is first.
As far as I know, the stack ceases to exist once all players have won or lost, so if, in the proposed mass-lynch, the totals become 3 scum / 3 vanilla town, scum would win.
See above, scum.
To do this, it would require being able to "confirm" 5 - 7 townies. If you can do that (e.g. get 6 townies to dayvig lol), then we can just win lickety-split.
I doubt that's possible, though.
I disagree.
I still think it's possible to win on day 1 in this manner, but that requires scumhunting and active posting for everyone. This format seems to favor the town, as we have 500 hours to kill as many people as we want, then the scum get to kill only one person (plus our mystery 27th player probably gets to take an action).
A format like that can reward fast and hard lynches, but to do that, everyone needs to post, as the quietest people will be forgotten in the orgy of wagonhammering.
I think that's how this format is supposed to be played. It's Battle Royale. Students were killed quickly upon the start of the games.
So let's RIP AND TEAR the quietest people (bring them to L-2) to get their and other people's reactions.
unvote
vote Kpaca for being on the bottom of the post tally
Let's save our comments on that until after Star Trek mafia is over. <3 kawaii inu dokichan desuuuuuuuu~ gome nasai!!
SCUUUUM. Way to essentially random vote, to distract from the attacks on EP.
Again, this is not an argument. Yes, a mass-lynch is game-deciding, so if we do it right, we win, and if we do it wrong, we lose. What I want to hear is arguments why it's more likely that we do it wrong.
Strange that you're using a scum-win scenario in your example.
I think three townies would be enough, maybe even two.
You totally acted like EP's scum partner here.
I agree. I've never seen a massclaim lose the game for the town.
I would say that the ban on name claims is indicative of the mod taking great care in balancing the nuances of his game. What most inspires confidence in my conclusion is that the games on this site are peer reviewed, and a game capable of ending on Day 1 outside of anything other than a remote corner case is unlikely to make it past the screening process.
Unlynchability or Extra Life in the hands of either a mafia or malicious neutral would result in a 1 town / 1 scum scenario, dooming the town. An unblockable kill would also spell doom for the town. And none of those things would show up until the lynches resolved.
I was pointing out that if the plan is to mass lynch all but one player, then the mass claim really doesn't do much because by the time any "goes off at end of day" abilities would be seen to confirm what people have claimed, it's already too late if a scum makes it past the lynch (via one of the aforementioned abilities). The mass lynch might be useful for choosing who will be the player to leave alive, but it does not address the more relevant issue of problematic scum roles.
You may be right, but it's not the supposed confirmed player that is the problem with the plan.
I agree with the Cubus quote below on the balancing.
You think so? I think that the mod banned name claims because the game could totally be broken by a mass-claim otherwise. I think that means that without nameclaiming, we'll still be damn close to breaking the game when mass-claiming. And in order for this plan to succeed, there isn't even a need to completely break the game. Banning nameclaims isn't really a nuanced solution to a setup's problem, in my opinion.
Also, this setup has probably not been reviewed by anyone from MtgS. And if there's any setup that is most likely to result in a day 1 end, it's Lights Out-style mafia.
So you're saying that you came across unlynchable scums in the few games that you've played? Again, examples please.
It's also strange that you trust the mod to make an unbreakable game, yet at the same time find it plausible that he put an unlynchable scum in the game. A role that would punish the town for mass-lynching correctly. You think that would make it through the screening process? Mod: If a win occurs at the end of the day, will abilities that would normally trigger at the end of a block still trigger?
Pretty sure the answer is no. When one side wins, the game should be over. In fact, mass-lynching is probably the only way to circumvent problematic scum roles.
Well I guess I could do the math (but it'll probably be wrong). Let's say... 6 mafia for a 27-player game? Plus our mystery guest?
So let's say we have to hit 7 out of 27 entities.
Umm, actually, I don't remember how to do that math. I think it has something to do with permutations.
You wanted an argument, there's your argument. How can you not use a scum-win scenario to describe an argument where a mass-lynch may cause a loss?
As pointed out, this is not an argument.
Seems like you're trying to find hidden meanings in my words.
That's the point of the game, right? Unless of course you are the informed minority, AKA Scum.
krowzy as scum in Fiasco Corp was able to make himself unlynchable (or more specifically unvotable), though there was a limit to how many times he could do this.
Wouldn't we notice the whole unvotable thing, and you know, stop the masslynch there? Or are we all fear mongers like you?
See, this in an interesting spin you're trying to put on this. Your implication here is that in the event the town "mass lynched correctly" (i.e. found and voted all the scum) Day 1 that such a role would punish them for their spectacular play. However, you're not advocating finding and correctly lynching the scum. You're advocating trying to successfully find one (or more) confirmable townies and then axing everyone else, scum and town alike, in order to score a win in a manner I dare to suggest is quite contrary to what the mod would want. You're advocating trying to cheese the system, and I would not be surprised at all if the mod put something in place to punish the town for trying such a thing.
Who cares what the mod would want? What we want is to lynch scum, making the game fun for us, not necessarily playing the way the mod intended. I would rather that we massclaim, then masslynch scummy roles/players, than find "confirmed" townies and lynch the rest. I still think that mass action will win however.
Look first day mass-claim is not going to work. You think in a game with this sort of lynch mechanic he wouldn't put in things to stop first day mass claim win? The names were part of blocks he put in place. I don't think it'll be good, and I won't be taking part in them if they do occur.
And seppel, I'm hiding everything about my role (for now). I don't like you claiming because it's giving out information that has no need to be out in the open. How do you know this will benifit us (the town)? Until you know for sure (which you don't) that this is better for the town, then you should keep your trap shut about this. No one calculates best case scenarios and plans according to them.
Note: have not looked over dagger posts, will do so later.
Why do you refuse to participate, this is how we will win fastest.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I don't believe that was a daykill. Then again, bluesoul hasn't mentioned anything about forbidden zones, so who knows.
I'd disagree.
For those who don't understand the plot or were too lazy to look it up, the basics are this:
A middle school japanese class is gassed, and put onto an island. Each has an explosive collar on, and is given a single weapon...the promise being that the only one left alive at the end of the time period is the only one who will survive.
The island is divided into zones.....as the "game" progresses, zones are declared forbidden, and anyone who steps into those zones.....has their collar go kaboomie.
This appears to have happened to TheFooFish.
In the book, iirc (I don't have a copy, i read a friend's copy) at least one character dies when he is tricked into going into a zone that becomes a forbidden zone.
That would be what has happened here.
PPE: Checking wikipedia confirms my remembering....the awesome bad ass bad guy tricks the dude stalking him in that manner.
Anyhow, the flavor makes sense for a daykill , unless you know otherwise.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I know that. I still don't see how that could be morphed into a daykill. The situation in which the person was tricked was extremely unique for the story. Only one person was stalking another, and it was only the most bad***/genius/insane character.
I know that. I still don't see how that could be morphed into a daykill. The situation in which the person was tricked was extremely unique for the story. Only one person was stalking another, and it was only the most bad***/genius/insane character.
It was all too situational.
It was not listed as a modkill. So somebody killed him (Violating PRs or any other restriction are modkills).
I agree it's a unique situation, but until the game goes on, we really can't do much speculating.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Question, wouldn't everyone claim town? So how could this help out?
A middle school japanese class is gassed, and put onto an island. Each has an explosive collar on, and is given a single weapon...the promise being that the only one left alive at the end of the time period is the only one who will survive.
So it doesn't matter who of us is town, we all have to die for one to win?
I don't believe that was a daykill. Then again, bluesoul hasn't mentioned anything about forbidden zones, so who knows.
Then what else could it be? He said it wasn't a mod kill.
The odds aren't important, because, as I said, we're not lynching randomly.
It's still pseudo-randomly, based on what people post. We don't learn anything new after lynching someone until this block ends. And because of this, the people who post the least are going to be out of suspicion.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
For the record, seppel, can you stop the pink text. It's really really annoying. (I hate all colored text in mafia games usually, see SB's blue, but pink is just obnoxious).
Second, i disagree on the mass claim=win theory that cubus has now proposed in every game. Just because a scum game was unbalenced, and Akid's game sucked, doesn't mean it will work here.
Especially when we're not allowed to freaking Name Claim.
Gender claiming is interesting, as i can see certain power roles only among certain gender, and the SK is almost certainly male or I'll eat my hat. (I'd guess the mafia is mixed, though I can guess one female within it).
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@Cubus: Yeah I refuse to gender/massclaim day one, even more so on this game. If you manage to get everyone to claim go ahead and lynch me because I'm not convinced at all.
I don't see how gender claiming will help us. Assuming that there are roles which we can 'divine' from the book to be a certain role (see Loran's SK example) that leaves us with a pool of half the players? It sure as hell doesn't help us narrow down the mafia. In fact, it gives the mafia better targets if they can narrow down roles.
Yeah I'm not convinced at all.
Quote from Seppel »
I never asked.
Seppel, meet Seppel:
Quote from Seppel »
and what do you have to hide?
It promotes conversation.
While leaking information that should not have been leaked so early and for such a flimsy reason. Wanting to promote conversation is fine, but you're doing it wrong.
lol @ "us (the town)"
Better careful then dead.
Ok well thanks for telling me that after the fact. And if you haven't noticed, I'm actively not posting as much as I did in Star Trek mafia (after I realized that I was the most frequent poster in that with 17% of the posts).
Yes well I assumed you knew not to reveal information carelessly. Guess I shouldn't assume anything when you're involved.
Why not? If it calculates to like a 1% odd, why would not plan based upon the low odds and not do it
What? I'm saying if you play for worst case it should cover best case. If you plan for best case it covers only best case.
It made sense to me. I'm getting a feeling that I don't think the same way as a regular mafia player... but apparently it works, so I must be doing something right.
I don't see how it's working, so I'm going to say you're not doing anything right at the moment.
but apparently I'm great at the forum version.
This is a joke right?
Your fishing for the modkill was scummy as hell also.
I'll wait for MMoD to tell me to claim before I claim because he told me not to claim, because wanting me to claim is a scummy action.
Nice misrep.
So basically Seppel is the same as before and I give up, and I disagree with mass-claim, mass-lynch.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
On mass-claiming: I still disagree. I don't see how claiming gender gets us anywhere, seeing as there were both murderous males and females within the book. I just don't see it working to any advantage. I'd say it gives the scum an advantage in trying to determine power roles.
On this, I don't really see any pro-town reason for gender claims as well. Maybe those pushing for it need it to complete their win conditions?
sorry I'm stuck on this but say the few claim doc, cop, vig. everyone else would claim vanilla town correct?
^_-.....
HEAVY FOS Archmage Eternal.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
You think so? I think that the mod banned name claims because the game could totally be broken by a mass-claim otherwise. I think that means that without nameclaiming, we'll still be damn close to breaking the game when mass-claiming. And in order for this plan to succeed, there isn't even a need to completely break the game. Banning nameclaims isn't really a nuanced solution to a setup's problem, in my opinion.
I actually can see some strong logic in this sentiment, and I read the example you posted for me. I'm wary, but I'm understanding where your coming from here.
On the other hand, lynching a handful of players day 1 might not be a bad idea. It would give us a ton of info to work with day 2, while limiting scum controlled kills.
I like this idea, flavorwise there multiple "evil" cliques from the little I know on Wikipedia. Gender claiming seems like a false truth to the town while lynching several players would lead to positive results on what kinds of scum we are dealing with.
@Emo Pinata: note that any form of lurking later on will be considered scummy. If we have to start pushing you to get opinions and positions out of you, that's the worst thing you can do from my perspective, short of claiming scum.
I'm not lurking by choice, I primarily play on weekdays. I got out of work, participated in my RL plans, and now I'm back to catch up. I can't be on long during the weekend, but during the week I will post substantially.
Well, I've reached my self-imposed post limit, so I'll see you guys in a few hours.
Voting random lurkers (who you forgot then remembered) with humor to distract from the OMGUS voting (Me, Dagger, and not AK) and the waffling from the subject while still claiming unprovoked... vote Seppel
Regarding FooFish. I have no clue how his death plays out with a "Forbidden Zone". It must be a player ability of some kind, but I don't know what to think.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Hmm, I don't think the "daykill" on TFF is in anyway pro-town. Okay, scum origin then.
On this, I don't really see any pro-town reason for gender claims as well. Maybe those pushing for it need it to complete their win conditions?
Probably of scum origin. Unless it was a neutral or town alt win condition attempt.
I have a feeling a role or two may have to do with finding another person. I just finished the book after picking it up yesterday, and a few characters are devoted to finding one of opposite sex.
This is my 2nd game and I am trying to understand how this helps town. I see it as the scum will not reveal anything and claim town but in turn will see who claims what and have an advantage.
Probably of scum origin. Unless it was a neutral or town alt win condition attempt.
I have a feeling a role or two may have to do with finding another person. I just finished the book after picking it up yesterday, and a few characters are devoted to finding one of opposite sex.
Why not?
Why?
Yes why? Cubus was the one that started this all correct? FOS Cubus
Think about the post i quoted. The answer should be rather obvious.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Incidentally, Archmage should probably not claim right now, but he's a heavy favorite for being SK right now.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
No on masslynch. I wouldn't have thought Cubus was serious until I reread. Seems like duh, but: We won't be able to kill all but 1 player; there will automatically be 2 left alive and it will get intensely complicated as survivors, SKs, and whatever the hell other neutrals as well as scum manipulate the process to get people killed.
Cubus, are you intentionally misrepping the rules? We can't leave one player alive, and yet you don't seem like a moron. FoS Cubus for a horrible plan that makes no sense.
As far as massclaim I am also opposed. Honestly I think Cubus could seem scummy for inciting the town to these options.
Seppel: you are really terrible. God.
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Seriously?
-I voted him; I think he is more likely scum than anything else.
You voted him by inferring he meant scum. What about the other possibilities?
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On mass-claim/mass-lynch: definitely not today. Think about this: if this tactic can work, then it can probably work anytime. We don't need to rush into it. It'll still be valid on Day 3, and likely for a while after that, and by that time we'll have a better sense of who is or is not confirmed townie. We can revisit this at that point.
On Emo Pinata: He's obviously adjusting his posting style based on what he's been reading and the feedback he's been getting today. The question is, does that make him scum? I'm not convinced by the cases presented so far, so I'm not going to vote him right now. If he acts scummy later, though, this is definitely being entered as Exhibit A.
@Emo Pinata: note that any form of lurking later on will be considered scummy. If we have to start pushing you to get opinions and positions out of you, that's the worst thing you can do from my perspective, short of claiming scum.
On multiple lynches per day: we obviously want at least one lynch per day, so failing to lynch would be ungood. I'd be okay with multiple lynches on any given day, but each one has to be justified seperately. We aren't getting ahead on the scum if we indiscriminately off townies.
Seriously, you come back after 24 hours, and that's the best you can do?
unvote, vote: Samoht.
On the other hand, lynching a handful of players day 1 might not be a bad idea. It would give us a ton of info to work with day 2, while limiting scum controlled kills.
I never asked.
It promotes conversation.
lol @ "us (the town)"
Ok well thanks for telling me that after the fact. And if you haven't noticed, I'm actively not posting as much as I did in Star Trek mafia (after I realized that I was the most frequent poster in that with 17% of the posts).
Why not? If it calculates to like a 1% odd, why would not plan based upon the low odds and not do it?
It made sense to me. I'm getting a feeling that I don't think the same way as a regular mafia player... but apparently it works, so I must be doing something right.
It was still wrong, though.
Are you personally attacking me or are you saying that I made a personal attack?
What I'm saying is that I was so horrible at the IRC version of mafia that I got banned from the MTGS IRC Mafia channel, but apparently I'm great at the forum version.
If he is vanilla, or close to it, that wouldn't explain his attitude. He clearly wanted to avoid an argument and stay out of any trouble. This is most common from power roles and scum.
You didn't do the waiting to see bit, which makes all the difference. (If you think someone is town, why would you ever wait to defend them if you saw a valid counterargument?) Skander's play sounds like a scum partner looking for some reason to support EP before he can post his defense of EP.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
The thing is though, on Day 1, the scums are in the blind as well on the town's power roles and structure, something of which grows less and less with each subsequent block. On the other hand, the town is always perpetually in the dark about the scums, and we are only afforded a glimpse of it with our first lynched scum. Essentially, the scums are at their most vulnerable on the first Day as well.
EDIT: Maybe the above apply only to crypto-claims. Ah well.
If he was indeed doing what you're alluding, then he wouldn't be in the current situation. And your method of classification is not entirely correct.
@Seppel: I meant the latter. Also, the vote is staying.
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This was painful to read. Was it not obvious what TheFooFish was saying that you had to ask TWICE?
unvote whoever I was voting for.
vote Dagger.
oh yay that was easy
You're flailing. Badly.
I was clarifying TFF's post, position, motivation, intention, etc. etc.
Also, EDIT:
Oh, again, EDIT:
Or should I say EWP?
Maybe EDIT WITH POST?
Let's try again. EDIT:
Oh noes!
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Yeah well, let's see what Skander has to say to this first.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
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Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
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Correction: If he was good at doing what I think he was trying to do, then he wouldn't be in the current situation.
And while my method may not be perfect, it works well enough. Mafia is more of an art than a science. And I still like my vote where it is.
It's entirely subjective then. Anyway, you passed.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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how could that all not have been clear
wish we could get a modkill plz D: D: D: but we'll have to do it the old fashioned waaaaay, desu~
<3 Vote Dagger <3
sayonaraaaaa~
Once a player is lynched they are dead, their role just isn't revealed. If at any point one faction has the game won and their win conditions are met, the game is over. Ex: If there was only one mafia player left and the rest town, s/he submitted a kill and then was lynched, the game would be over as even after the mafia kill there would be no other factions remaining. It will come down to win conditions, basically.
Regarding Dagger, given that there was no edit notice at the bottom of the post I will have to say no modkill, but I would recommend players be more careful with their wordings in posts.
TheFooFish is dead, their collar detonated for being caught in a forbidden zone.
(Not a modkill.)
Emo_Pinata - 6 (Jack_Bauer, Cubus, Cyan, LampDwellr, loran16, Rook)
Seppel - 2 (Samoht, Dagger)
Jack_Bauer - 1 (mystery meat of doom)
RobRoy - 1 (kpaca)
Skander - 1 (andelijah)
Cyan - 1 (desCoures)
Samoht - 1 (RobRoy)
Apokalypse Kid - 1 (Some One)
Dagger - 1 (Seppel)
26 students remaining
Battle Royale Mafia
(Come see who won!)
It reveals on block 2.
I was saying that there are odds that it will cause a loss, and as far as I can tell, you aren't putting any effort toward calculating those odds.
No. You look for inconsistencies, not "hidden meanings."
Here, try to find a hidden meaning in this:
ohayou gozaimas~u!!!!!
I'm not even voting for kpaca any more. FINE.
Unvote
Vote Emo_Pinata
Well, I've reached my self-imposed post limit, so I'll see you guys in a few hours.
Ah - so the idea is that the mass-claim on Day 1 is most likely to find scum. You aren't thinking about confirmed townies so much as confirmed scum.
Well... I still don't like the idea. I don't think we're going to have enough trustworthy information to lynch the entire town without a misstep giving the scum a win at some point in the process.
On TheFooFish: bah. Kind of early in the block for a daykill, though... I'd have thought that anyone willing to kill at this point would have some incentive to hold off for a while.
Flailing noted.
Agreed on avatar part.
On mass-claiming: I still disagree. I don't see how claiming gender gets us anywhere, seeing as there were both murderous males and females within the book. I just don't see it working to any advantage. I'd say it gives the scum an advantage in trying to determine power roles.
I don't believe that was a daykill. Then again, bluesoul hasn't mentioned anything about forbidden zones, so who knows.
*Facepalm* scum.
Lolwhut?
Hey! It ended day 4 or 5 or something. It may have effectively ended day 2, but technically...
I agree with the massclaim->masslynch.
That's we the massclaim is first.
See above, scum.
I disagree.
SCUUUUM. Way to essentially random vote, to distract from the attacks on EP.
I agree. I've never seen a massclaim lose the game for the town.
I agree with the Cubus quote below on the balancing.
I agree with the above.
As pointed out, this is not an argument.
That's the point of the game, right? Unless of course you are the informed minority, AKA Scum.
Wouldn't we notice the whole unvotable thing, and you know, stop the masslynch there? Or are we all fear mongers like you?
Who cares what the mod would want? What we want is to lynch scum, making the game fun for us, not necessarily playing the way the mod intended. I would rather that we massclaim, then masslynch scummy roles/players, than find "confirmed" townies and lynch the rest. I still think that mass action will win however.
Why do you refuse to participate, this is how we will win fastest.
Heh, I agree.
SCUUUMMMM.
Vote Seppel
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I'd disagree.
For those who don't understand the plot or were too lazy to look it up, the basics are this:
A middle school japanese class is gassed, and put onto an island. Each has an explosive collar on, and is given a single weapon...the promise being that the only one left alive at the end of the time period is the only one who will survive.
The island is divided into zones.....as the "game" progresses, zones are declared forbidden, and anyone who steps into those zones.....has their collar go kaboomie.
This appears to have happened to TheFooFish.
In the book, iirc (I don't have a copy, i read a friend's copy) at least one character dies when he is tricked into going into a zone that becomes a forbidden zone.
That would be what has happened here.
PPE: Checking wikipedia confirms my remembering....the awesome bad ass bad guy tricks the dude stalking him in that manner.
Anyhow, the flavor makes sense for a daykill , unless you know otherwise.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
It was all too situational.
It was not listed as a modkill. So somebody killed him (Violating PRs or any other restriction are modkills).
I agree it's a unique situation, but until the game goes on, we really can't do much speculating.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Question, wouldn't everyone claim town? So how could this help out?
So it doesn't matter who of us is town, we all have to die for one to win?
Then what else could it be? He said it wasn't a mod kill.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
It's still pseudo-randomly, based on what people post. We don't learn anything new after lynching someone until this block ends. And because of this, the people who post the least are going to be out of suspicion.
Their agenda isn't hidden, they want us to mislynch. Ergo, anyone rallying for me to get lynched will be found out to be scum. e.g. Apokalypse Kid.
I'll wait for MMoD to tell me to claim before I claim because he told me not to claim, because wanting me to claim is a scummy action.
I was following Cubus's plan. And you agree with Cubus's plan, so if that makes me scum, that makes you scum too, hypocrite.
Yes it is.
As I said, believing that I'm scum is a scummy action.
unvote
Vote Apokalypse Kid
BTW, what's flailing? I tried to look it up but I couldn't find it. Is it trying to get votes onto someone else?
Also I changed my awatar. I didn't realize something like that would be offensive.
EBWOL: I thought this too. We can't roleclaim, so that would just leave everyone as town.
Best we can do is genderclaim.
The avatar is...disturbing.
I feel like you should die, but I realize it's just that this is your normal play.
OK, so what would that accomplish? we have 13 m 13 f.....we have 20 m 6 f.....10 m 16 f. How does that affect this game?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Hahaha, OMGUS scum.
And do I really need to explain the concept of massclaims to you?
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OMGUS isn't a scumtell if I think you're scum.
Flailing = Massclaim? I don't think so... I asked about flailing, not massclaim. Reading is tech.
Well if we have claims of 20m 6f, then that clears all the females and means that scum were pretty dumb in genderclaiming.
Thank you. May you hide your scumminess better this game.
Also sorry, I tried to hold back on my posting but I couldn't resist. I tried to stay under 10%. gome nasai~!
EBWOS: Besides, the point of genderclaiming is more useful to try to find player #27 than scum.
Why are you asking me anyway? @_@
Second, i disagree on the mass claim=win theory that cubus has now proposed in every game. Just because a scum game was unbalenced, and Akid's game sucked, doesn't mean it will work here.
Especially when we're not allowed to freaking Name Claim.
Gender claiming is interesting, as i can see certain power roles only among certain gender, and the SK is almost certainly male or I'll eat my hat. (I'd guess the mafia is mixed, though I can guess one female within it).
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I don't see how gender claiming will help us. Assuming that there are roles which we can 'divine' from the book to be a certain role (see Loran's SK example) that leaves us with a pool of half the players? It sure as hell doesn't help us narrow down the mafia. In fact, it gives the mafia better targets if they can narrow down roles.
Yeah I'm not convinced at all.
Seppel, meet Seppel:
While leaking information that should not have been leaked so early and for such a flimsy reason. Wanting to promote conversation is fine, but you're doing it wrong.
Better careful then dead.
Yes well I assumed you knew not to reveal information carelessly. Guess I shouldn't assume anything when you're involved.
What? I'm saying if you play for worst case it should cover best case. If you plan for best case it covers only best case.
I don't see how it's working, so I'm going to say you're not doing anything right at the moment.
This is a joke right?
Your fishing for the modkill was scummy as hell also.
Nice misrep.
So basically Seppel is the same as before and I give up, and I disagree with mass-claim, mass-lynch.
Sorry, that was directed at Archmage. It's funny that your suspicion of me appears solely it seems, on me calling you scum.
Why not include gender in the massclaim?
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Wait, you'd rather find a mysterious #27 than scum? :rofl:, we got you scum.
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I suppose that was clear to you because you don't need to hunt scums, being one yourself and all that.
On this, I don't really see any pro-town reason for gender claims as well. Maybe those pushing for it need it to complete their win conditions?
We are claiming roles as well, not alignments.
Look up the term "flail" in a normal dictionary.
Why would you be trying to find #27? And why would you have the notion he/she is a non-scum?
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sorry I'm stuck on this but say the few claim doc, cop, vig. everyone else would claim vanilla town correct?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
^_-.....
HEAVY FOS Archmage Eternal.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I actually can see some strong logic in this sentiment, and I read the example you posted for me. I'm wary, but I'm understanding where your coming from here.
However,
I like this idea, flavorwise there multiple "evil" cliques from the little I know on Wikipedia. Gender claiming seems like a false truth to the town while lynching several players would lead to positive results on what kinds of scum we are dealing with.
I'm not lurking by choice, I primarily play on weekdays. I got out of work, participated in my RL plans, and now I'm back to catch up. I can't be on long during the weekend, but during the week I will post substantially.
Voting random lurkers (who you forgot then remembered) with humor to distract from the OMGUS voting (Me, Dagger, and not AK) and the waffling from the subject while still claiming unprovoked... vote Seppel
Regarding FooFish. I have no clue how his death plays out with a "Forbidden Zone". It must be a player ability of some kind, but I don't know what to think.
N on mass claim
N on gender claim
12-11? I'm losing track
Probably of scum origin. Unless it was a neutral or town alt win condition attempt.
I have a feeling a role or two may have to do with finding another person. I just finished the book after picking it up yesterday, and a few characters are devoted to finding one of opposite sex.
Why not?
Why?
This is my 2nd game and I am trying to understand how this helps town. I see it as the scum will not reveal anything and claim town but in turn will see who claims what and have an advantage.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Yes why? Cubus was the one that started this all correct? FOS Cubus
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Think about the post i quoted. The answer should be rather obvious.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Shame on me
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Whoa where did that come from?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Cubus, are you intentionally misrepping the rules? We can't leave one player alive, and yet you don't seem like a moron. FoS Cubus for a horrible plan that makes no sense.
As far as massclaim I am also opposed. Honestly I think Cubus could seem scummy for inciting the town to these options.
Seppel: you are really terrible. God.