It would appear not. I know one of the days I didn't use my ability, and according to the timestamps I went through a few pages ago Day 3 is the day lacking.
Dagger targeted Axel Night 2 also, so if you're trying to narrow potential mafia down like that, it isn't going to mean much. Also, I rather suspect that Axel not being untargetable says more about Axel's alignment than it does about Xyre's, but like I said yesterday, it could go either way.
Since we seem to be in claim mode here, and since it seems the doubt about my ability to multivote is distracting from certain things, I'll simplify things for everyone who hasn't already deduced how it works. I can, in fact, must, multivote when I have votes on me, up to three votes, though once I have voted, I can unvote and use the extra votes at will. Obviously, I can demonstrate this - rather, the trick was avoiding demonstrating it, since I was kind of hoping for the ability to be useful before the very endgame, but at this point, it doesn't look like that's likely to happen. If anyone wants absolute proof, they just have to be voting for me when the lynch gets decided, and I'll be happy to pile on the last three votes. Especially if it's Axelrod.
@Puzzle: did the notice that you got of your non-vanilla-ness say why it happened? Because if it's because fade is dead, rather than some kind of time-based reason, then that reflects badly on Raf. Any input?
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The recent change to my avatar is the result of personal preference only.
I have to say I find this a bit disturbing. In a game in which there seems to be a reasonable amount of stuff rotating around avatar use, this comes across as suspicious to me. Any reason why you decide to do this now?
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Are you really that dense, or just pretending to be?
My role forces people to roleplay. Suddenly someone starts to roleplay, and I didn't target them. Is there any reason in the world that I would not be concerned?
Are you really that dense, or just pretending to be?
My role forces people to roleplay. Suddenly someone starts to roleplay, and I didn't target them. Is there any reason in the world that I would not be concerned?
Well, Arimnaes was role-playing Day 1. So was I for a little bit.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Arimnaes and HE7 were doing it from the start, so I assumed it's an inherent ability or restriction. Vampyr just started out of the blue, like he was targeted by a role mirroring mine.
CP's claim is interesting... hmm. I don't know if it means he's scum. If he was scum with that role, one scum can vote for the other, and they suddenly gained two extra votes - probably enough to swing for the win. I'm especially interested in what the flavor is on that.
So, because I don't think much else would be gained for the mafia by CP claiming his name, why don't you give us that, CP?
Also, Alx's claim really bugs me.
1) The odds that Az and I were thinking the same thing of putting Tyler Durden in the game feels really bad. But hey, this is Az we're talking about.
2) What's the flavor on that?
3) Couldn't that role also work for the mafia?
Then again, atlseal did know that Kraj was the CL, and the cake thing seems like a terrible waste of resources by the mafia* if that's now it worked out. Meh. It feels convenient, but I can't see how it would be mafia.
* Of course, it could simply be that this is all one elaborate ploy to earn some townie points for the mafia by wasting resources. This and the cake on AG all feels like WIFOM.
CP's claim is interesting... hmm. I don't know if it means he's scum. If he was scum with that role, one scum can vote for the other, and they suddenly gained two extra votes - probably enough to swing for the win. I'm especially interested in what the flavor is on that.
Wait... what? If a mafia memebr voted for CP, then CP would have 1 extra vote. It still means 2 votes total.
Quote from Xyre »
Then again, atlseal did know that Kraj was the CL, and the cake thing seems like a terrible waste of resources by the mafia* if that's now it worked out. Meh. It feels convenient, but I can't see how it would be mafia.
It's probably worth noting that ATL changed his avatar to the agent smith avatar at one point, no? I think it was late in the game though.
Grak: Oh, I get it. I thought he just instantly got three votes. It's still rather good for a mafioso, especially because he keeps the votes for the rest of the day.
That's the vote ability I thought CP had, but I don't think he keeps them when people unvote. Back when Fade wanted to test him, I voted him and he promptly demonstrated 2 votes. Then I unvoted and he went back to 1 for the rest of the day.
My position on Dagger is more or less this:
Quote from Puzzle »
Dagger's role could be mafia or town but unlikely SK and as Axelrod mentioned, he isn't the cake-sender, nor the mafia killer of last night. He's worth leaving alone for now and I hope he'll think of what I said in my PM to the group.
It's flavourless and actually feel rushed. In fact, I suspect that Az just forgot to PM me at the end of the night. It proves nothing about RafK, who will anyway probably say tomorrow morning that he's back to normal.
That would be excellent!
Still dunno if you're being truthful about that. I guess we find out at the end of the day.
Dagger's role could be mafia or town but unlikely SK
No way! Why could it be mafia but not SK?
and as Axelrod mentioned, he isn't the cake-sender
Yup.
nor the mafia killer of last night
Well, unless she can kill and talk at the same time. Some babes can, dude.
That's the vote ability I thought CP had, but I don't think he keeps them when people unvote. Back when Fade wanted to test him, I voted him and he promptly demonstrated 2 votes. Then I unvoted and he went back to 1 for the rest of the day.
If cp is a heinous mafia type, maybe his ability only triggers if a TOWNIE votes for him.
We could make everyone vote him in turn and see what happens, although that would take a totally long time to do.
@Raf: we could do them two at a time, if you like. I have no reason to think that only townies would affect my ability.
I think Grak's clearance of himself as SK is at least reasonably valid. If he was really the SK, why would he post about atl being untargetable at all, and more importantly, how could he know it? I don't think it tracks. Not that it's impossible, but I figure it's far more likely to be one of the others on the list.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I've felt like RafK was the SK for quite awhile, but, I can't really reconcile that with the fact that he is, most clearly, Bill(or Ted) from Bill & Teds. I guess I could see one of those two being the SK, somehow, but I can't see them killing with a gun. It has to be someone else, I think.
That's true, as far as it goes. If Ted were a serial killer, he'd kill with a phone booth.:D
However, I think it's a possibility that Raf is just Keanu Reeves, and is RPing as Ted because it's one possible role. After all, BaTEA honestly has zero connection to the theme of this game beyond the actor who happens to be in both. As such, Neo could be SK without stretching too much. I agree that he isn't the likeliest possibility for the moment, though.
Ugh. I just called Keanu Reeves an actor. *shudders*
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
It could simply be that Cyan and Axel are a 2-man mafia/SK team akin to RotTK and have ready-made safe-claims that they've made sound like there's no reason to shoot them. Or something.
I still can't think of a win condition Cyan would have if he was the defender of SK Axelrod. At the same time, his claim seems irrational for an SK if Axelrod is town.
And Alx's claim has given me an idea. I need to go back to Day 2. Give me a bit.
Okay, so that theory was no good. This is what I get for not paying attention.
However, I did notice a couple of things:
1) No night-kill Night 2? I can't see any signs of why this might have happened based on the ability lists Axel provided. Of course, we still likely have our doctor, who obviously hasn't come out, so I suppose the mafia just fell into that. But, that's less interesting than....
2) No day-kill Day 2 or Day 3?! My assumption (based on means of death and character) is that DYH died from being, well, crazy. If that's true, though, that means we have a daykill Day 1 and Day 4 but not Day 2 or 3? It's rather strange. And while I can see the SK not having enough time Day 2 to fire (what with the rapid wagon on Kraj), that doesn't apply as much to Day 3. So where did these extra kills go? This is even more strange in that we haven't seen a daykill yet today, either, despite a few good targets.
Here's a theory: we're looking at it the wrong way. Instead of an SK, perhaps it's just some scattered roles with single-shot daykills, like fade had in Sin City. So far, we've only seen a pair of these things, which isn't outside the realm of non-SK kills yet. Perhaps instead it's just the mafia we need to deal with, and that Kraj fulfilled the "SK" bit.
The "No Kill" on Night 2 was something I had completely forgot about. That ought to be added to the list of "Events" that we know about.
But we had day-kills (or day-kill attempts) on both Day 2 and 3. Atlseal was day 2 and DYH was day three.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Okay, so that theory was no good. This is what I get for not paying attention.
However, I did notice a couple of things:
1) No night-kill Night 2? I can't see any signs of why this might have happened based on the ability lists Axel provided. Of course, we still likely have our doctor, who obviously hasn't come out, so I suppose the mafia just fell into that. But, that's less interesting than....
2) No day-kill Day 2 or Day 3?! My assumption (based on means of death and character) is that DYH died from being, well, crazy. If that's true, though, that means we have a daykill Day 1 and Day 4 but not Day 2 or 3? It's rather strange. And while I can see the SK not having enough time Day 2 to fire (what with the rapid wagon on Kraj), that doesn't apply as much to Day 3. So where did these extra kills go? This is even more strange in that we haven't seen a daykill yet today, either, despite a few good targets.
Here's a theory: we're looking at it the wrong way. Instead of an SK, perhaps it's just some scattered roles with single-shot daykills, like fade had in Sin City. So far, we've only seen a pair of these things, which isn't outside the realm of non-SK kills yet. Perhaps instead it's just the mafia we need to deal with, and that Kraj fulfilled the "SK" bit.
So, would the real SK please stand up?
A few things...
1) I think assuming we have a doc might be a mistake. This is based on some of the claimed abilities we've seen thus far and based on the fact that a doc probably would have been protecting ATL on night 2. Call it a hunch, but I think it's more likely that the mafia kill was stopped by something else on night 2. Which means if we have a town roleblocker and he blocked someone night 2 that is still alive, now might be a good time to claim it. Of course, I could just be saying this to try and trick the mafia into walking face first into a doc protection. So take this with a grain of salt.
2) I am very confident that we do have a day killing scum that is non-mafia aligned, there hasn't been a missing kill during the days yet (we have 3 day kills and 1 day-whiff) and it's interesting that we haven't seen a day-kill yet today. Would a day-killing scum give up a kill in order to make us suspect Raf? Doubtful.
It could simply be that Cyan and Axel are a 2-man mafia/SK team akin to RotTK and have ready-made safe-claims that they've made sound like there's no reason to shoot them. Or something.
I still can't think of a win condition Cyan would have if he was the defender of SK Axelrod. At the same time, his claim seems irrational for an SK if Axelrod is town.
And Alx's claim has given me an idea. I need to go back to Day 2. Give me a bit.
I cannot believe this game had a 4+ man mafia (we had a roleblock and a night kill, so there have to be atleast 2 mafia left), a cult AND a 2 man SK team. That is completely insane.
Especially since we've seen a lot of town roles where people are going "Uh... I don't really know what my ability does....." or "I know what it does, but I don't really know how useful it is."
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
So Dagger's fan club is now Axelrod/Cyan/Spoon/Puzzle? Is being in the fan-club a guarantee of alignment or merely a guarantee of Dagger's undying friendship?
Dagger's role could be mafia or town but unlikely SK and as Axelrod mentioned, he isn't the cake-sender, nor the mafia killer of last night. He's worth leaving alone for now and I hope he'll think of what I said in my PM to the group.
1) I think assuming we have a doc might be a mistake. This is based on some of the claimed abilities we've seen thus far and based on the fact that a doc probably would have been protecting ATL on night 2. Call it a hunch, but I think it's more likely that the mafia kill was stopped by something else on night 2. Which means if we have a town roleblocker and he blocked someone night 2 that is still alive, now might be a good time to claim it. Of course, I could just be saying this to try and trick the mafia into walking face first into a doc protection. So take this with a grain of salt.
By all indication, Arim should have been the town roleblocker and he was daykilled on Day 1.
ZDS,
I actually think the prescene of 2 town-aligned roleblockers makes it increasingly unlikely that there is actually a doc in this game.
Quote from CP »
Alx2's ability isn't impossible on a SK but isn't really synergetic with what we'd expect. I'd also expect a Fight Club role to use fight rather than be a sharp-shooter but I haven't see the film.
I actually could see the role of Tyler Durden being scum-aligned flavor-wise as the Kid hated the machines and to quote wikipedia
A neo-luddite, nihilist, Anarcho-primitivist with a strong hatred for consumer culture. "Because of his nature"[18], Tyler works night jobs where he causes problems for the companies; he also makes soap to supplement his income and create the ingredients for his bomb making which will be put to work later with his fight club. He is the co-founder of fight club (it was his idea to have the fight that led to it). He later launches Project Mayhem, from which he and the members make various attacks on consumerism. Tyler is blond, as by the narrator's comment "in his everything-blond way." The unhinged but magnetic Tyler could also be considered an antihero (especially since he and the narrator are technically the same person), although he becomes the antagonist of the novel later in the story. Few characters like Tyler have appeared in later novels by Palahniuk, though the character of Oyster from Lullaby shares many similarities.
Oh. Ooooh. I have always thought that Townie Detention Specialist was a roleblocker role and that J-effe was a role that gave watcher ability. Yeah, it could be then.
Okay, time to speak up. On Night 3, I (and indirectly Vamp) received the visit of Charm_Master. We were able to communicate for the entirety of the night. He gave us some info about how the revolving role works, as well as some other info I do not wish to mention yet.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but the presence of two roles this similar in the game bothers me. A lot.
(note : I do not know of Charm_Master's alignment)
Did anyone else receive a visit from CM?
This makes the process of elimation via abilities a tad difficult if the people on the Oracle list have abilities of their own that can directly interact with the game.
1) I think assuming we have a doc might be a mistake. This is based on some of the claimed abilities we've seen thus far and based on the fact that a doc probably would have been protecting ATL on night 2.
atl was in limbo night 2.
It's possible that there's no doc, but hey, maybe I too am trying to trick the mafia
Call it a hunch, but I think it's more likely that the mafia kill was stopped by something else on night 2.
This is totally possible. Not sure what the speculation gets us, though.
[qupte]2) I am very confident that we do have a day killing scum that is non-mafia aligned,[/quote]
The daykill try on atlseal certainly suggests it, except the bit where atlseal seemed to know he would be daykilled.
Would a day-killing scum give up a kill in order to make us suspect Raf? Doubtful.
Thanks for giving the SK ideas, dude. That is way uncool.
I agree, probably not though. But the SK has generally waited until late in the day. I totally resent the implication.
If anyone is a bogus neutral in this game, it's you, Raf. Trying to pin it on someone else doesn't magically make you look better. It's pretty dismally pathetic that, in the face of people like Hawkeye acting thoroughly scummy on a constant basis, you just ignore it, instead stubbornly focusing on some completely flavor based interpretation to 'insist' that at least one of us is neutral. But then, as the SK, I suppose you don't want too many mafia to die, since there'd be alot more focus on finding you, right.
AG: The quote you attribute to me is not something I said. I think it was Puzzle. You'll find that I am not one for making flavor-based arguments.
Cyan: if anyone is a bogus neutral in this game, it's Axel. Do you actually have evidence of RafK being the SK beyond you just really wanting him to be it instead of Axel? Raf might well be scum, but I don't recall any evidence pointing to him as a potential neutral.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
If anyone is a bogus neutral in this game, it's you, Raf. Trying to pin it on someone else doesn't magically make you look better.
Dude, you still run a gazillion trillion miles from answering how your anti-machine thing = town.
Quote from Cyan »
It's pretty dismally pathetic that, in the face of people like Hawkeye acting thoroughly scummy on a constant basis, you just ignore it, instead stubbornly focusing on some completely flavor based interpretation to 'insist' that at least one of us is neutral.
Everything I say is totally about you!
But no way! I had one line at the end of one post about you, just to make the point you aren't home free yet, and suddddddenly I'm ignooooooring everyone else! How totally bogus you are.
Charm Master wasn't the Oracle? When did this happen?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Thanks for giving the SK ideas, dude. That is way uncool.
I agree, probably not though. But the SK has generally waited until late in the day. I totally resent the implication.
If it makes you feel any better, I am pretty confident it's a bad idea. So if the SK takes it, he's probably losing the game. At the rate we are killing scum, he can't afford to skip a kill just to make someone look bad.
Knowing his existence, I say Dagger and his ability to let an arbitrarily large amount of players into his communication group without revealing them anything important just does not fit.
How doesn't it fit? It's obviously the real deal unless you're calling Dagger, Axel, Cyan, Me, and anyone I'm forgetting all liars. Two communication roles like this don't seem out of the question, and it looks like Charm can only use his while in the game. What's the problem?
Knowing his existence, I say Dagger and his ability to let an arbitrarily large amount of players into his communication group without revealing them anything important just does not fit.
'Does not fit'? What the hell does that mean? Obviously it 'fits', he's done it everyday since day 1, and all of us that have been targeted have verified it.
If 'does not fit' somehow means 'is anti-town', you're going to need to present a case that is vastly more compelling 'Charm Master told us some info'. Especially since, according to you, Charm Master lied to us all about his role. How does that make him a more credible source than Dagger, exactly?
Why should I know ? He was never the Oracle to begin with, but he knows enough stuff about the Oracle (the role) to be able to false-claim it perfectly, he has the same restriction, and he is among the revolving players (most of them being plain regular Oracle(s)).
To clarify, you meant the Oracle role itself is false, or CM wasn't the Oracle but knew about the specifics of the role anyway?
Knowing his existence, I say Dagger and his ability to let an arbitrarily large amount of players into his communication group without revealing them anything important just does not fit.
"Anything important" as in what? I am a communication role. There is no other important thing I could reveal. If CM did indeed tell you something important, what makes you think his role is the same as mine?
Seems to be baiting DYH into stating that the other mason should come forward. Doesn't actually express his own thoughts on this, however. Also, no idea what the '816KAZ' means.
Points out that Xyre's PBPA of Loran was completely negative. Subtle defense of Loran(known scum). Barns Loran's statement that I was playing different. Barns Grak's PBPA of me. Interesting enough, that PBPA was also completely negative, and was moreso negative than Xyre's of Loran. Apparently, it's not okay for Loran(known scum) to get attacked in this fashion, but it's okay for me to. Still tries to keep suspicion on CP, even though he never once remotely explained why he's suspicious of him in the first place.
Subtlely attacks CP for CP's disagreement with atlseal's wagon evaporating(pretty telling, since we know now that atlseal was scum). Interesting, in light of his last post. Of course, he's all too willing to try to steer CP towards voting me, even though he apparently disagrees with CP unvoting atlseal.
Again tries to throw dirt on CP, with the insinuation that CP was involved in killing Arimnaes, because he wanted to make atlseal look bad. Again this is highly relevant, knowing that atlseal is scum.
Disagrees with fade's assessment that Arimnaes' was being aggressive. I didn't really see why he would feel the need to mention this, but then later it becomes more clear when he tries to put the onus of suspicion on fade. And of course, he again asserts that I'm scummy, without ever explaining why(beyond his initial 'I agree with Grak's PBPA, even though said PBPA was hundreds of posts prior to this).
States that Alx is playing for reactions before making a case on Wizzipig. Nevermind that Alx listed several reasons, in this post, as to why he is willing to look at Wizzipig. Also, nevermind that Hawkeye did exactly the same thing himself earlier in the game.
Unvotes me, for whatever reason. Apparently according to Hawkeye, at this point, it was okay that I hadn't answered Graks PBPA. But he thinks I should address it anyway...doesn't make alot of sense to me. This is pretty much wholly contradictory with the fact that, numerous times past this, he will attack me for..not answering Grak's PBPA.
Says that lynching LJustus, for the purpose of gaining an investigation, is better than lynching someone 'at random' or 'mislynching a townie'. I don't really get this sentiment, because obviously the town isn't going to lynch at random or knowingly lynch a townie. Then he immediately contradicts himself and says that we shouldn't let LJustus live.
Claims that I'm blocking and being obstinate by pointing out the fact that he never had a reason for voting me in the first place. Which he didn't. Now he claims to have 'noted' many of the same observations that Grakthis did, regarding me. Of course, initially he just 'agreed' with Grak's PBPA. Now he apparently noticed all of the same things..but just didn't mention them. How convenient.
Wants to know why Axel is voting for LJustus. Nevermind that LJustus asked people to vote for him, etc etc, an idea which Hawkeye himself had previously claimed as a good idea.
Attacks Axelrod, for seemingly no reason. This whole sequence makes no sense. LJustus wants to be lynched. Axelrod tries to oblige. Hawkeye then attacks Axelrod for it. And of course, even though this post has nothing to do with me, he uses it to throw dirt on me.
Attacks Axel again, claiming that Axel was being deliberately dishonest by omitting certain 'possibilities'. Then goes on to say that he is going to list his own possibilities, but if he leaves any out, it's okay. Fascinating that it's not okay for Axel to do so, but it is for Hawkeye.
Of course, he attacks CP again, claiming CP is fence sitting(nevermind that he is responding to an attack that CP made on him in the first place..I fail to see how you can be fence sitting when you're directly criticizing someone).
Says that it isn't 'impossible' that I just randomly made up my role out of the Terminator mythos and got lucky that DYH is from the same, just that it is improbable. In reailty, this is improbable to such a degree that it is worth neither mention or even consideration. Just wants to try to discredit my claim without doing so directly. It's also worth noting that, at the very same time that he is trying to discredit my claim, he is also saying that I didn't have to immediately claim my full role, that just my name would have sufficed. These statements are pretty much entirely contradictory.
Personal attack on CP. Plus, continues to go after Axelrod. I don't really understand it though. Also claims, in this post, that I'm misrepresenting him. I point this out now because, beyond this post, Hawkeye will be guilty of misrepresentation himself on many, many occasions.
Disbelief of my claim. Falsely insinuates that I'm just adding to my claim as I go, ignoring the fact that, when I initially claimed, I flatly stated that there were certain aspects that I didn't want to reveal if I could help it. This is the first example of Hawkeye misrepresenting someone(me).
Says that my claim isn't believable because he was a bodyguard in Sin City Mafia and he didn't have multiple lives. Of course, he freely admits that there were TWO people that he could have protected, which already indicates that the role was different. But apparently that isn't important. This is all hugely gaming the Mod anyway.
Says that it's not gaming the Mod because 'it is what everyone knows'. It's still gaming the Mod, because you can't KNOW anything, unless A)you are the Mod or B)the game is over. Beyond that, he tries to attack me more based on what is very obviously a misunderstanding by Vampyr.
Instead of DYH paying attention to points that are to my benefit, he just wants him to ignore those and only address the fact that I said I would address Grak's PBPA but then didn't. That's nice.
Continues to misrepresent me, claiming again that I 'came up with new additions to my role'. Again, ignoring the fact that I flatly stated, in my initial claim, that I wasn't telling everyone everything.
Later, moves on to attacking Hvirfilvindr because Hvir has claimed a role involving locations, but didn't respond to Hawkeye's earlier statements regarding locations. This seems awfully farfetched to me.
Again expresses his disbelief in Hvir's claim, based upon nothing other than the fact that Hvir didn't respond to some statements that Hawkeye made regarding locations that were, in my opinion, casual at best. Lynches Hvir. Says that his vote should put Hvir at -1, when it in reality is a lynch. Hard to say whether or not he knew better. In fairness, considering how long Hawkeye's post was, and the fact that Hvir's self vote was 3 minutes before Hawkeye's post, he is probably being truthful here.
Blows off Jefe's attack on him. In fairness, Jefes attack was extremely weak. But the manner in which Hawkeye just blew it off really doesn't speak of someone that is pro-town.
Ignores the point that I was trying to make. Claims that I unvoted him, thus negating his need to respond to me, but this is misrepresentation. I only Unvoted Hawkeye to vote for Kraj because atlseal revealed that kraj was the CL.
Claims that I haven't given any reason for voting him, which is more or less completely untrue. I have stated, multiple times, that Hawkeye is guilty of misrepresentation, as well as criticized the reason that he lynched Hvir.
Apparently he can't fathom the concept that, considering that I see/saw CP as town, I believed what he said. Hawkeye just abandons his argument completely here, presumably because he has no other avenues to go with.
Fearmongering about the Cult, tries to take what was clearly an attempt by Fade to help the town(by not having ZDS vigged) and misrepresents it as fade 'ratting out Kraj'. Ratting out what, exactly? That Kraj was the CL? Sorry, we already knew that. That Kraj was lying to us about who he targeted? Fade did the town a great service in telling us, and as we all now know, he was being truthtful about reverting. The way that he refers to it as 'fade ratting out Kraj' seems ridiculously scummy to me, like it's bad to tell everyone that the CL is lying about his target.
Indignance again, towards ZDS this time. Hawkeye's attitude seems highly suspect now. He cryptically demands that everyone answer his question, but completely dodges any questions that anyone else asks. Oh, and accusing ZDS of 'trying to start a bandwagon on him' because ZDS FoSed him is ridiculous.
Continues to make a big deal out of all of this Avatar nonsense. Continues to attack DYH for 'ignoring' his question. Doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that the question was stupid and pointless to begin with. And concludes with the ever popular(as scum) statement 'now the scum will probably kill me tonight. Follows this up with some crappy joke that makes no sense.
Refers to my vote as 'convincing and decisive'..as though I'd never voted him before now(I had, multiple times. Again, ignores the fact that I expressly pointed out my suspicions of him earlier. Downplays my accusation of him being antagonistic by referring to it as 'mean'.
Insists that DYH can't change his avatar as he pleases. But again, doesn't bother to give any explanation as to the why of any of this. Blows off my statement that he is being antagonistic(which is out of character for him) by saying that DYH mentioned it first. This is 100% hypocrisy, considering that Hawkeye only ever voted me initially based off of a PBPA done by Grakthis. In actuality, in regard to the people that Hawkeye has 'expression suspicion of' in this game(I use that phrase as loosely as possible), which is all of myself, CP, fade, DYH, and Axelrod, he has never actually pointed out anything that they did that was scummy, he just attacked them. Of course, he has attacked me for doing so repeatedly this game. So again, Hawkeye is a huge hypocrite. It's also worth mentioning that, of the people Hawkeye has gone after, fade and DYH are both dead and confirmed town, CP is most likely town, I am town, and Axelrod is town(from my perspective, anyway). Nice track record.
Complete and utter blocking. Of course, Hawkeye accused me of blocking earlier in this game. But then, making transgressions that he has accused other people of seems to be par for the course for Hawkeye in this game.
After CP points out that he changed his Avatar awhile ago, Hawkeye tries to hide his obvious blunder here by attacking CP for not pointing it out when he changed it. It seems to me that, for something that was *so* important to Hawkeye, he would have been paying attention to people's avatars and noticed if one changed. After this, he addresses each vote made against him. He excuses his vote on Hvir by saying that he would have played the role differently. Which is really no excuse. Then he misrepresents CP's vote against him. Then he blows off everything that Spoon says on the basis that 'Spoon doesn't know his playstyle'. Which, for all any of us know, could be true or untrue, because no one has any idea who Spoon is. Tries to excuse his attack on DYH by saying, again, that he 'just had some theory'. Nevermind that it was obvious even when he was attacking DYH that multiple people were opposed to what he was doing. Then there is atlseal's vote. Atlseal, the known scum. Of *all* of the votes on hawkeye at any point in this game, this is easily one of the weakest, but the ONLY ONE that Hawkeye doesn't put down. In fact, he says it is 'to atlseal's credit'. My interpretation? Atlseal tries to distance himself from a fellow scum, who then tries to make atlseal look better for doing so. Hawkeye also attacks CharmMaster's vote, but I can't fault him on that one.
Hawkeye disagrees with Raf's theory about the possible identity of Spoon, then puts Raf on the spot regarding Hawkeye's overall play. Then he disagrees with Spoon some more, and misinterprets the 'my voice is not my own' bit that DYH had stated. I mean, his conclusion about that statement is a possibility, but is the least likely of possibilities.
Here, Hawkeye realizes that DYH has started roleplaying out of nowhere, but somehow doesn't come to the conclusion that maybe this is what is meant by 'my voice is not my own'. Or at least, doesn't want to come to that conclusion. This is telling, because earlier Hawkeye ranted at Axel for quite awhile for 'only posting/listing possible outcomes that he wanted to, and ignoring others'. Yet, that is exactly what Hawkeye has done here. Just another example of hypocrisy on Hawkeye's part.
Here is Hawkeye's FIRST post regarding Loran, at a point where he essentially cannot dodge the topic anymore. What does he do? Tries to casually backup Loran's claim. A claim that we now know to be false.
Hawkeye's response to my latest attack on him. What was that response? Essentially, Hawkeye telling me to kiss his ass. Very nice. Now who is ignoring the points made against them, Hawkeye? It's worth noting that Hawkeye was never part of the lynch on Loran. The lynch on Kraj is irrelevant, and Hawkeye was part of the lynch of Hvir, obviously. Nice track record there.
Continues to argue uselessly about the flavor of the bitten and drained kill. What is really happening here is what has happened repeatedly at this point. Hawkeye is ignoring a relevant wagon/suspect(atlseal) and focusing all of his attention on something completely and utterly pointless.
Hawkeye misrepresents my earlier(much earlier) defense of atlseal in an attempt to make his obvious backup of Loran look better. And again, he ignores the points that people do make against him, instead just stubbornly asking for points from people that aren't actually making them.
This is a huge post where Hawkeye addresses, inadequately, some of the points made against him. First Hawkeye makes the wild assumption that DYH knows something about his role(which we have no verification of). Then Hawkeye says 'and since he had no investigative abilities'...but how does Hawkeye know this? It wouldn't have surprised me, even remotely, if Silberman was some kind of investigator. Maybe Hawkeye knows something we don't hear. Hawkeye responds to Axelrod saying that Hawkeye hasn't taken responsibility for his actions this game by denying this, even though this sentiment is woefully accurate...Hawkeye has blown off every post people have made against him until this point. Then, he tries to twist around Axel's words regarding Hawkeye 'poo-pooing' people voting for him. Yay for more misrepresentation. Of course, he has nothing to say about the fact that he responded to a valid suspicion on my part with a 'moon' picture. Then he makes a bunch of responses to me, most of which make no sense. What Phanto has to do with anything, I have no idea. And apparently, it's not okay for me to agree with things that Grakthis mentions, but it's okay for Hawkeye to vote me based off of Grakthis' PBPA, and subsequently continually attack me for it. And yes Hawkeye, you do always lurk when you're scum. Just like this game...of the people still alive, you have one of the lowest post counts. And so much of your posting is just completely pointless roleplaying.
Immediately after the vote blackout occurs and it becomes impossible to really push Hawkeye, he claims with no prompting. Of course, his claim makes no sense whatsoever, and probably isn't real.
In an obvious attempt to avoid the current topics of conversation(himself or atlseal), Hawkeye randomly asks for a list of claims. Apparently he can't be bothered to make it himself. This is just another example of of Hawkeye trying to create a distraction.
Rather than go along with the natural flow of things(and again, Hawkeye doesn't comment on atlseal at all), Hawkeye fishes for more information from Xyre.
Says he'll vote for atlseal. Votes from this point are practically academic, considering that Xyre has already flatly stated that he caught atlseal in a lie.
Tries to accuse Axel of 'being the defense for atlseal'. Somehow, he manages to NOT condemn atlseal for letting someone else defend him. This bit seems pretty telling now that we know that atlseal is scum. It clearly looks like Hawkeye is trying to set Axel up here.
Blatant attempt at trying to set up Axel because he 'defended' atlseal. Which Axel did not do, he was thinking out loud, as he has done much of this game. If Hawkeye were truly town, IMO, these types of posts would have come AFTER we knew atlseal's alignment. It doesn't make any sense, especially from a town perspective, to bring this all up now. Unless he's just trying to derail the wagon on atlseal, just like he did with Loran.
Apparently realizes that his attack on Axelrod is going nowhere, and resigns himself to atlseal being lynched. This post is really utterly pointless, regardless of whether or not he actually voted atlseal.
Blows off my attack on him, again, misrepresenting it(again) at the same time. Apparently insinuates that I could be mafia, which, in addition to being OMGUS, is ridiculous.
Apparently, has decided that Puzzle will be his focus for today. Considering how much Hawkeye has dodged answering questions about his RPing so far, this post seems highly suspect.
Clarifies his last post to Puzzle as...fishing, apparently. How nice.
Anyway, that's it. I really don't think it could be any more clear that Hawkeye is scum. He has been egregiously guilty of misrepresentation, being evasive, being antagonistic, fishing, being a hypocrite, etc etc. He completely ignored the Loran wagon, which caught a scum, and ignored the Atlseal until atlseal being lynched was academic. During both of these wagons, he did everything in his power to bring up some other completely mundane and irrelevant issue. It's also worth noting that everyone he has put any effort into attacking is either A)confirmed town or B)damned near.
Hopefully it won't take people too long to change their post style from Vb 2.0 Postbit to 3.0 Postbit so they can respond to this. Weird bug.
I haven't looked at Dagger's in game contributions alot, but he's involved in each conversation that we all have. How it works is that Axel/Puzzle/Spoon/myself can't communicate directly. We send messages to Dagger, he sends them(as a bulk send) to everyone else. He also sends out his own messages. It's all fine. The ability seems town to me..particularly the flavor that Puzzle alluded to, which really doesn't need to be revealed now.
Ok, so if no one believes me about Dagger (BTW, the "information wheel" class of abilities have typically been balanced by either letting scum hear the discussions or by letting scum into the wheel) then where are we going today?
Because we've got an SK and probably 2 mafia left to find.
How many people are unclaimed? Should we consider a massclaim at this point to weed out the final few?
If Abbey is scum, don't expect me to spot it. Same with Axel. I'd say both of them are acting different than I am used to, but it's a different site so I don't know that I can trust that.
I feel strongly that Raf is not mafia. I can make no comments about him not being the SK, because they don't give off the same tells. But he's def been pro-town during the day.
There is no chance of convincing me that CP is mafia at this point. He's been too pro-town during the days.
I hate that we're getting to the point where we have a list of "confirmed" abilities that we're kinda letting have a free pass. Maybe it's time for me to read some more of day 1 and 2 and look for people connecting themselves to our dead scum in unfortunate ways.
I def think we need clarification on the Charm_Master issue and don't we have a claimed tracker? He owes us some results from last night, no?
Sorry Cyan, when I have a spare 2 hours, I'll read that.
I'm bugged by this Charm Master thing. I don't understand it. I'll also note this little tidbit which worried me a tiny bit when he posted it, but after fade "vanillified" Puzzle I wasn't quite as worried anymore.
This was Charm Master's #2242:
well, that's a lynch. thanks for having me, and I hope we've finally caught a scum. if not...oh boy...
and doc, this role is a tree that's been cut down. don't let the mafia take it away!
Vote count
Loran - enough
others don't matter.
What did he mean, this role is a "tree" that has been cut down? And the part about the Mafia "taking it away." If I was reading that in a vacuum I'd say it sounded like he was warning that the role itself could become a scum role - if the Mafia did something to it?
The other choice seems to be that he was just trolling for a Doc protection. But why would he be afraid of getting Night-killed? The role as described is no threat to Mafia. It's even less of a threat than regular vanilla townie because the player keeps changing.
I don't know, but it bugged me then. And now this new thing is worrisome.
Do I hear Puzzle professing he has no idea what ZDS is talking about (with CM not really being the Oracle and having some other ability in addition). Someone ought to know something about this.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't see any reason for a mass claim now, really. We still have suspects to look at.
@Axel: I don't really get the deal with Charm Master either, honestly. Puzzle has had the role for 2 days in a row now, right? I guess that's because he was, theoretically, 'made Vanilla'. Good play on the part of Fade, if it's true.
Sorryguy, despite having only recently arrived, soon falls into yet another seizure.
Except this time, rather than leaving another corpse behind, his body simply vanishes. Slowly, with difficulty, a new embodiment flickers into being.
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Also, be advised that my access is likely to be spotty or non-existent over the next five days, as I'll be obliged to pay for internet for the duration.
I am kinda reviewing some events surrounding our Oracle role.
Check this out.... Sorryguy was replaced by CM so CM became the active player and SG went to the "Limbo" list.
Then Chamber took SG's spot in Limbo.
So, Limbo is apparently important.
But our latest rule says we can target players on the replacement list, but NOT players in Limbo.
But players in Limbo are important enough that the moderator actively annouced a replacement event that occured IN LIMBO.
You know, you want to talk about our Alice in Wonderland role, I wonder if she was supposed to somehow interact with Limbo? Limbo is kind of a "place."
But the fact that Az puts these roles in Limbo instead of on the replacement list HAS to be significant. But why?
eh, if all my vote counts are accurate, I can pick someone on the replacement or limbo list to take over the next day. if I mess up, which I apparently have, it goes to whoever is on top of the replacement list. so unless a scum gets in limbo, the role is staying a town role.
As far as I can tell, the person who's posting is the only difference. suth probably got the same role PM at the start of the game that I did a few hours ago, and he probably laughed/swore as much as I did, too. Why? becasue it's the matrix. The matrix is continuity, the matrix is static. The matrix is control. If the Matrix played magic, I'd bet my life that it would play Mono-blue control; with 4 teferi, Slaver-Ruins lock, pickleslock, and everygoodhardcounterin [card=swift silence]the game.
and the reason I claimed...I haven't taken any heat, but the role has. remember you semi-wagoned Suth for forgetting his vote counts? I wanted to put the role out there, mainly so that didn't happen again with me.
Vote count that I'm NOT forgetting this time!
same as last time.
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
5 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 Carrion Pidgeons - Spoon
for those of you whose scroll wheels are broken.
EWP:...in retrospect, from now on, I'm not having spoon as the bottom person on the voting list.:-/
Ok, so here's what I think he was worried about; a mafia member being in limbo and getting the role.
What would have happened if someone had chosen ATL while ATL was in Limbo?
The mafia would have "gotten" this role. How bad would that have been?
I don't think it could have happened. The Mafia would probably have gotten the Oracle role, not Charm_Master's role ; a mafiate with nothing else to do than make vote counts and then let a townie take his place is not that much of a threat.
Well, assuming the Oracle has no other ability, that is. Puzzle's input would be good there.
First of all, someone needs to explain to me the difference between the Oracle and CM's role. Cause CM claimed The Oracle and all information we have about that role came from CM.
And if you remember, Agent Smith DID take the Oeacle and use her code against the heroes in 3.
Finally, I feel pretty confident that if the moderator developed a way that the oracle role could go to a mafioso, he sure as hell put in something bad for the town if that occured. Some kind of trigger or event or knowledge that the mafia would gain.
Like, you know, the mafia suddenly learns all of the towns roles or something ridiculous like that.
It's also worth mentioning that Azrael played in a game I ran on MT where the mafia were body snatchers, but each body had different abilities based on who they were. When a mafia member died due to anything but the lynch he could still take a new body.
I wonder if each replacement that the Oracle takes over has a "body" and each "body" has a different set of capabilities. Some of them are vanilla, some of them have abilities and probably atleast one of them is a trap.
First, MTGSally is now cut out from work for me, meaning I can post only on evenings.
Second, I agree with Grak on the mass claim. I'll give my reasons later, one of them being that the result will be either clearing a townie or catching 1.5 scums.
The last time you supported any kind of mass claim and said it would have great results for the town..we all know what happened then. Are you really sure things will be different now?
@Puzzle: are you talking about a full claim, or just a "name" claim? Clearing one townie is not such a hot result. Though I tend to think with Mass claims I do pretty well in identifying the true from the false.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Puzzle: I'm still voting Axel. As for the mass claim, I agree with Cyan that it seems a little early. We need to get an active bandwagon going, is all.
In terms of non-towniness, this is how I'm seeing things:
Vampyr
Alx2
Xyre
Grakthis
ZDS
Dagger
Cyan
Spoon
RafK
Abbey
HE7
Axelrod
Axelrod's at the bottom because I'm convinced that he's neutral, not because I believe him to be mafia. HE7 and Abbey are down there because of generally scummy behavior, and the Raf and Spoon because we don't know enough about their roles to make a better placement, but neither have really acted all that bad, IMO. If we were going to do a mass claim, it would primarily be for the sake of those two.
Next up is Cyan, but at this point, he's only this far down the list list due to his potential as a neutral. I don't think he's especially scummy, particularly compared to his normal play. Naturally, if Axel turns up SK or something, then Cyan looks a bit worse, but Cartoon Mafia did have a neutral role that was protecting a mafia role the same way that Cyan is protecting Axel, and Az was in that game; I could see something similar going on here. Dagger's role is less convincing than the masons, but I'm still willing to believe that it's an unlikely mafia role, especially given the number of other abilities that have gone unclaimed that keep happening. Then ZDS, because even though he's 'cleared,' he's been really scummy, and I can see a scenario in which he might be scum despite the identical PM thing. Vampyr is up much higher because, frankly, he doesn't act like scum. Alx2 and Xyre and Grak are at the top of the list because they have proven roles and behavior that just don't mesh with a mafia alignment. Alx2 has used his ability every night, so he has that going for him just like Dagger does, plus the fact that his role doesn't make sense on scum based on the roles we already know the scum have. Xyre proved his role and caught a scum with it when he had no special reason to do so. Grak has proven his day ability to my satisfaction, and I tend to doubt he could be the mafia blocker, and his behavior against loran and atlseal doesn't really make sense as mafia either.
So basically, I want to lynch Axel as the SK, but Hawkeye7 is certainly a decent target. If neither of those are satisfactory, I'd be willing to fall back on the mass claim idea, but for the moment, I think we have better targets.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
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It would appear not. I know one of the days I didn't use my ability, and according to the timestamps I went through a few pages ago Day 3 is the day lacking.
Since we seem to be in claim mode here, and since it seems the doubt about my ability to multivote is distracting from certain things, I'll simplify things for everyone who hasn't already deduced how it works. I can, in fact, must, multivote when I have votes on me, up to three votes, though once I have voted, I can unvote and use the extra votes at will. Obviously, I can demonstrate this - rather, the trick was avoiding demonstrating it, since I was kind of hoping for the ability to be useful before the very endgame, but at this point, it doesn't look like that's likely to happen. If anyone wants absolute proof, they just have to be voting for me when the lynch gets decided, and I'll be happy to pile on the last three votes. Especially if it's Axelrod.
@Puzzle: did the notice that you got of your non-vanilla-ness say why it happened? Because if it's because fade is dead, rather than some kind of time-based reason, then that reflects badly on Raf. Any input?
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I have to say I find this a bit disturbing. In a game in which there seems to be a reasonable amount of stuff rotating around avatar use, this comes across as suspicious to me. Any reason why you decide to do this now?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
My role forces people to roleplay. Suddenly someone starts to roleplay, and I didn't target them. Is there any reason in the world that I would not be concerned?
Well, Arimnaes was role-playing Day 1. So was I for a little bit.
So, because I don't think much else would be gained for the mafia by CP claiming his name, why don't you give us that, CP?
Also, Alx's claim really bugs me.
1) The odds that Az and I were thinking the same thing of putting Tyler Durden in the game feels really bad. But hey, this is Az we're talking about.
2) What's the flavor on that?
3) Couldn't that role also work for the mafia?
Then again, atlseal did know that Kraj was the CL, and the cake thing seems like a terrible waste of resources by the mafia* if that's now it worked out. Meh. It feels convenient, but I can't see how it would be mafia.
* Of course, it could simply be that this is all one elaborate ploy to earn some townie points for the mafia by wasting resources. This and the cake on AG all feels like WIFOM.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Wait... what? If a mafia memebr voted for CP, then CP would have 1 extra vote. It still means 2 votes total.
It's probably worth noting that ATL changed his avatar to the agent smith avatar at one point, no? I think it was late in the game though.
And I didn't know atl used the Smith avvy.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
My position on Dagger is more or less this:
Grak: same here, dude. Azrael gave me an option because of that. You might have got the same thing.
Exactamundo.
That would be excellent!
Still dunno if you're being truthful about that. I guess we find out at the end of the day.
No way! Why could it be mafia but not SK?
Yup.
Well, unless she can kill and talk at the same time. Some babes can, dude.
If cp is a heinous mafia type, maybe his ability only triggers if a TOWNIE votes for him.
We could make everyone vote him in turn and see what happens, although that would take a totally long time to do.
@Raf: we could do them two at a time, if you like. I have no reason to think that only townies would affect my ability.
I think Grak's clearance of himself as SK is at least reasonably valid. If he was really the SK, why would he post about atl being untargetable at all, and more importantly, how could he know it? I don't think it tracks. Not that it's impossible, but I figure it's far more likely to be one of the others on the list.
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However, I think it's a possibility that Raf is just Keanu Reeves, and is RPing as Ted because it's one possible role. After all, BaTEA honestly has zero connection to the theme of this game beyond the actor who happens to be in both. As such, Neo could be SK without stretching too much. I agree that he isn't the likeliest possibility for the moment, though.
Ugh. I just called Keanu Reeves an actor. *shudders*
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I still can't think of a win condition Cyan would have if he was the defender of SK Axelrod. At the same time, his claim seems irrational for an SK if Axelrod is town.
And Alx's claim has given me an idea. I need to go back to Day 2. Give me a bit.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
However, I did notice a couple of things:
1) No night-kill Night 2? I can't see any signs of why this might have happened based on the ability lists Axel provided. Of course, we still likely have our doctor, who obviously hasn't come out, so I suppose the mafia just fell into that. But, that's less interesting than....
2) No day-kill Day 2 or Day 3?! My assumption (based on means of death and character) is that DYH died from being, well, crazy. If that's true, though, that means we have a daykill Day 1 and Day 4 but not Day 2 or 3? It's rather strange. And while I can see the SK not having enough time Day 2 to fire (what with the rapid wagon on Kraj), that doesn't apply as much to Day 3. So where did these extra kills go? This is even more strange in that we haven't seen a daykill yet today, either, despite a few good targets.
Here's a theory: we're looking at it the wrong way. Instead of an SK, perhaps it's just some scattered roles with single-shot daykills, like fade had in Sin City. So far, we've only seen a pair of these things, which isn't outside the realm of non-SK kills yet. Perhaps instead it's just the mafia we need to deal with, and that Kraj fulfilled the "SK" bit.
So, would the real SK please stand up?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
But we had day-kills (or day-kill attempts) on both Day 2 and 3. Atlseal was day 2 and DYH was day three.
I can see the atlseal attempt, I suppose, but why DYH? The flavor of his death is off, when compared to the other two daykills.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There is a gunshot involved in all daykills.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
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NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Ah. Misread the scene.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
A few things...
1) I think assuming we have a doc might be a mistake. This is based on some of the claimed abilities we've seen thus far and based on the fact that a doc probably would have been protecting ATL on night 2. Call it a hunch, but I think it's more likely that the mafia kill was stopped by something else on night 2. Which means if we have a town roleblocker and he blocked someone night 2 that is still alive, now might be a good time to claim it. Of course, I could just be saying this to try and trick the mafia into walking face first into a doc protection. So take this with a grain of salt.
2) I am very confident that we do have a day killing scum that is non-mafia aligned, there hasn't been a missing kill during the days yet (we have 3 day kills and 1 day-whiff) and it's interesting that we haven't seen a day-kill yet today. Would a day-killing scum give up a kill in order to make us suspect Raf? Doubtful.
I cannot believe this game had a 4+ man mafia (we had a roleblock and a night kill, so there have to be atleast 2 mafia left), a cult AND a 2 man SK team. That is completely insane.
Especially since we've seen a lot of town roles where people are going "Uh... I don't really know what my ability does....." or "I know what it does, but I don't really know how useful it is."
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We do NOT know each others' alignments.
I agree to your proposal and will do so tonight.
By all indication, Arim should have been the town roleblocker and he was daykilled on Day 1.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I actually think the prescene of 2 town-aligned roleblockers makes it increasingly unlikely that there is actually a doc in this game.
I actually could see the role of Tyler Durden being scum-aligned flavor-wise as the Kid hated the machines and to quote wikipedia
Oh. Ooooh. I have always thought that Townie Detention Specialist was a roleblocker role and that J-effe was a role that gave watcher ability. Yeah, it could be then.
Did anyone else receive a visit from CM?
This makes the process of elimation via abilities a tad difficult if the people on the Oracle list have abilities of their own that can directly interact with the game.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
This was totally the "accepted mystic wisdom" dude, except it turned out to be El Jeff.
atl was in limbo night 2.
It's possible that there's no doc, but hey, maybe I too am trying to trick the mafia
This is totally possible. Not sure what the speculation gets us, though.
[qupte]2) I am very confident that we do have a day killing scum that is non-mafia aligned,[/quote]
The daykill try on atlseal certainly suggests it, except the bit where atlseal seemed to know he would be daykilled.
Thanks for giving the SK ideas, dude. That is way uncool.
I agree, probably not though. But the SK has generally waited until late in the day. I totally resent the implication.
Whoa.
Puzzle?
John Connor's flavor is that he must teach humans how to fight against machines, yet you're not making this argument against him ?
Splendid.
Cyan and Axelrod have never answered this. It's why I'm totally sure that one or both are bogus neutrals.
Cyan: if anyone is a bogus neutral in this game, it's Axel. Do you actually have evidence of RafK being the SK beyond you just really wanting him to be it instead of Axel? Raf might well be scum, but I don't recall any evidence pointing to him as a potential neutral.
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Dude, you still run a gazillion trillion miles from answering how your anti-machine thing = town.
Everything I say is totally about you!
But no way! I had one line at the end of one post about you, just to make the point you aren't home free yet, and suddddddenly I'm ignooooooring everyone else! How totally bogus you are.
If it makes you feel any better, I am pretty confident it's a bad idea. So if the SK takes it, he's probably losing the game. At the rate we are killing scum, he can't afford to skip a kill just to make someone look bad.
How doesn't it fit? It's obviously the real deal unless you're calling Dagger, Axel, Cyan, Me, and anyone I'm forgetting all liars. Two communication roles like this don't seem out of the question, and it looks like Charm can only use his while in the game. What's the problem?
'Does not fit'? What the hell does that mean? Obviously it 'fits', he's done it everyday since day 1, and all of us that have been targeted have verified it.
If 'does not fit' somehow means 'is anti-town', you're going to need to present a case that is vastly more compelling 'Charm Master told us some info'. Especially since, according to you, Charm Master lied to us all about his role. How does that make him a more credible source than Dagger, exactly?
To clarify, you meant the Oracle role itself is false, or CM wasn't the Oracle but knew about the specifics of the role anyway?
"Anything important" as in what? I am a communication role. There is no other important thing I could reveal. If CM did indeed tell you something important, what makes you think his role is the same as mine?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Post 41
Meaningless roleplaying.
Post 193
Apparently serious vote on Carrion Pigeons, without even the most remote explanation of it.
Post 446
Mostly meaningless roleplaying, as is the norm with Hawkeye up to this point. He does try to casually discredit CP's apparent townieness, though.
Post 524
Seems to be baiting DYH into stating that the other mason should come forward. Doesn't actually express his own thoughts on this, however. Also, no idea what the '816KAZ' means.
Post 595
Points out that Xyre's PBPA of Loran was completely negative. Subtle defense of Loran(known scum). Barns Loran's statement that I was playing different. Barns Grak's PBPA of me. Interesting enough, that PBPA was also completely negative, and was moreso negative than Xyre's of Loran. Apparently, it's not okay for Loran(known scum) to get attacked in this fashion, but it's okay for me to. Still tries to keep suspicion on CP, even though he never once remotely explained why he's suspicious of him in the first place.
Post 601
Subtlely backs up atlseal's claim with a post that doesn't really make any sense.
Post 663
Subtlely attacks CP for CP's disagreement with atlseal's wagon evaporating(pretty telling, since we know now that atlseal was scum). Interesting, in light of his last post. Of course, he's all too willing to try to steer CP towards voting me, even though he apparently disagrees with CP unvoting atlseal.
Post 666
Again tries to throw dirt on CP, with the insinuation that CP was involved in killing Arimnaes, because he wanted to make atlseal look bad. Again this is highly relevant, knowing that atlseal is scum.
Post 668
Same implications as the post before this.
Post 671
Backs up atlseal's Cheshire Cat claim. Again. His insistence here comes across to me as guilty knowledge.
Post 678
I honestly don't understand anything in this post.
Post 681
Meaningless.
Post 752
Disagrees with fade's assessment that Arimnaes' was being aggressive. I didn't really see why he would feel the need to mention this, but then later it becomes more clear when he tries to put the onus of suspicion on fade. And of course, he again asserts that I'm scummy, without ever explaining why(beyond his initial 'I agree with Grak's PBPA, even though said PBPA was hundreds of posts prior to this).
Post 758
States that Alx is playing for reactions before making a case on Wizzipig. Nevermind that Alx listed several reasons, in this post, as to why he is willing to look at Wizzipig. Also, nevermind that Hawkeye did exactly the same thing himself earlier in the game.
Post 839
Obvious fishing.
Post 855
Fishing again. Probably an attempt to make his question seem more serious, and less like fishing, even though that is exactly what it is.
Post 863
Unvotes me, for whatever reason. Apparently according to Hawkeye, at this point, it was okay that I hadn't answered Graks PBPA. But he thinks I should address it anyway...doesn't make alot of sense to me. This is pretty much wholly contradictory with the fact that, numerous times past this, he will attack me for..not answering Grak's PBPA.
Post 924
Disagrees with Grakthis' assessment that LJustus isn't clever. What he is effectively saying is that LJustus could be scum.
Post 937
Says that lynching LJustus, for the purpose of gaining an investigation, is better than lynching someone 'at random' or 'mislynching a townie'. I don't really get this sentiment, because obviously the town isn't going to lynch at random or knowingly lynch a townie. Then he immediately contradicts himself and says that we shouldn't let LJustus live.
Post 940
Apparently realizing that LJustus isn't going to get lynched, Hawkeye goes back to the lowest hanging fruit(me).
Post 945
Claims that I'm blocking and being obstinate by pointing out the fact that he never had a reason for voting me in the first place. Which he didn't. Now he claims to have 'noted' many of the same observations that Grakthis did, regarding me. Of course, initially he just 'agreed' with Grak's PBPA. Now he apparently noticed all of the same things..but just didn't mention them. How convenient.
Post 952
Wants to know why Axel is voting for LJustus. Nevermind that LJustus asked people to vote for him, etc etc, an idea which Hawkeye himself had previously claimed as a good idea.
Post 956
Attacks Axelrod, for seemingly no reason. This whole sequence makes no sense. LJustus wants to be lynched. Axelrod tries to oblige. Hawkeye then attacks Axelrod for it. And of course, even though this post has nothing to do with me, he uses it to throw dirt on me.
Post 1038
Attacks Axel again, claiming that Axel was being deliberately dishonest by omitting certain 'possibilities'. Then goes on to say that he is going to list his own possibilities, but if he leaves any out, it's okay. Fascinating that it's not okay for Axel to do so, but it is for Hawkeye.
Of course, he attacks CP again, claiming CP is fence sitting(nevermind that he is responding to an attack that CP made on him in the first place..I fail to see how you can be fence sitting when you're directly criticizing someone).
Post 1046
Says that it isn't 'impossible' that I just randomly made up my role out of the Terminator mythos and got lucky that DYH is from the same, just that it is improbable. In reailty, this is improbable to such a degree that it is worth neither mention or even consideration. Just wants to try to discredit my claim without doing so directly. It's also worth noting that, at the very same time that he is trying to discredit my claim, he is also saying that I didn't have to immediately claim my full role, that just my name would have sufficed. These statements are pretty much entirely contradictory.
Post 1105
Personal attack on CP. Plus, continues to go after Axelrod. I don't really understand it though. Also claims, in this post, that I'm misrepresenting him. I point this out now because, beyond this post, Hawkeye will be guilty of misrepresentation himself on many, many occasions.
Post 1118
More of the same as his last attack on me.
Post 1179
Disbelief of my claim. Falsely insinuates that I'm just adding to my claim as I go, ignoring the fact that, when I initially claimed, I flatly stated that there were certain aspects that I didn't want to reveal if I could help it. This is the first example of Hawkeye misrepresenting someone(me).
Post 1325
Says that my claim isn't believable because he was a bodyguard in Sin City Mafia and he didn't have multiple lives. Of course, he freely admits that there were TWO people that he could have protected, which already indicates that the role was different. But apparently that isn't important. This is all hugely gaming the Mod anyway.
Post 1333
Says that it's not gaming the Mod because 'it is what everyone knows'. It's still gaming the Mod, because you can't KNOW anything, unless A)you are the Mod or B)the game is over. Beyond that, he tries to attack me more based on what is very obviously a misunderstanding by Vampyr.
Post 1356
Instead of DYH paying attention to points that are to my benefit, he just wants him to ignore those and only address the fact that I said I would address Grak's PBPA but then didn't. That's nice.
Post 1365
Unvotes, due to Axelrod's claim.
Post 1405
Continues to misrepresent me, claiming again that I 'came up with new additions to my role'. Again, ignoring the fact that I flatly stated, in my initial claim, that I wasn't telling everyone everything.
Later, moves on to attacking Hvirfilvindr because Hvir has claimed a role involving locations, but didn't respond to Hawkeye's earlier statements regarding locations. This seems awfully farfetched to me.
Post 1476
Again expresses his disbelief in Hvir's claim, based upon nothing other than the fact that Hvir didn't respond to some statements that Hawkeye made regarding locations that were, in my opinion, casual at best. Lynches Hvir. Says that his vote should put Hvir at -1, when it in reality is a lynch. Hard to say whether or not he knew better. In fairness, considering how long Hawkeye's post was, and the fact that Hvir's self vote was 3 minutes before Hawkeye's post, he is probably being truthful here.
Post 1494
Blows off my suspicion of him(this will become common throughout the thread as well).
Post 1496
In alot of words, repeats the fact that he is suspicious of Hvir for no reason other than the fact that Hvir didn't respond to his location 'clues'.
Post 1559
Blows off Jefe's attack on him. In fairness, Jefes attack was extremely weak. But the manner in which Hawkeye just blew it off really doesn't speak of someone that is pro-town.
Post 1572
Ignores the point that I was trying to make. Claims that I unvoted him, thus negating his need to respond to me, but this is misrepresentation. I only Unvoted Hawkeye to vote for Kraj because atlseal revealed that kraj was the CL.
Post 1580
Claims that I haven't given any reason for voting him, which is more or less completely untrue. I have stated, multiple times, that Hawkeye is guilty of misrepresentation, as well as criticized the reason that he lynched Hvir.
Post 1584
Apparently he can't fathom the concept that, considering that I see/saw CP as town, I believed what he said. Hawkeye just abandons his argument completely here, presumably because he has no other avenues to go with.
Post 1719
Fearmongering about the Cult, tries to take what was clearly an attempt by Fade to help the town(by not having ZDS vigged) and misrepresents it as fade 'ratting out Kraj'. Ratting out what, exactly? That Kraj was the CL? Sorry, we already knew that. That Kraj was lying to us about who he targeted? Fade did the town a great service in telling us, and as we all now know, he was being truthtful about reverting. The way that he refers to it as 'fade ratting out Kraj' seems ridiculously scummy to me, like it's bad to tell everyone that the CL is lying about his target.
Post 1787
Completely pointless roleplaying that..makes fun of roleplaying..I think. I don't really get this post.
Post 1789
More of the same as last post.
Post 1858
Starts in with questioning DYH about his avatar change.
Post 1878
Answers some off-topic question.
Post 1935
Asks why 'Peter' can change his avatar. Question doesn't really make sense. Anyone can change their avatar.
Post 2018
More badgering of DYH about his avatar. Refuses to answer DYH's questions to him, but insists that DYH answer his questions. Very nice.
Post 2021
Indignance again, towards ZDS this time. Hawkeye's attitude seems highly suspect now. He cryptically demands that everyone answer his question, but completely dodges any questions that anyone else asks. Oh, and accusing ZDS of 'trying to start a bandwagon on him' because ZDS FoSed him is ridiculous.
Post 2045
Continues to make a big deal out of all of this Avatar nonsense. Continues to attack DYH for 'ignoring' his question. Doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that the question was stupid and pointless to begin with. And concludes with the ever popular(as scum) statement 'now the scum will probably kill me tonight. Follows this up with some crappy joke that makes no sense.
Post 2048
Misrepresents(again) my vote on him.
Post 2050
Refers to my vote as 'convincing and decisive'..as though I'd never voted him before now(I had, multiple times. Again, ignores the fact that I expressly pointed out my suspicions of him earlier. Downplays my accusation of him being antagonistic by referring to it as 'mean'.
Post 2053
Insists that DYH can't change his avatar as he pleases. But again, doesn't bother to give any explanation as to the why of any of this. Blows off my statement that he is being antagonistic(which is out of character for him) by saying that DYH mentioned it first. This is 100% hypocrisy, considering that Hawkeye only ever voted me initially based off of a PBPA done by Grakthis. In actuality, in regard to the people that Hawkeye has 'expression suspicion of' in this game(I use that phrase as loosely as possible), which is all of myself, CP, fade, DYH, and Axelrod, he has never actually pointed out anything that they did that was scummy, he just attacked them. Of course, he has attacked me for doing so repeatedly this game. So again, Hawkeye is a huge hypocrite. It's also worth mentioning that, of the people Hawkeye has gone after, fade and DYH are both dead and confirmed town, CP is most likely town, I am town, and Axelrod is town(from my perspective, anyway). Nice track record.
Post 2089
Continues to try(and fails, IMO) to explain his senseless crusade against DYH.
Post 2091
Complete and utter blocking. Of course, Hawkeye accused me of blocking earlier in this game. But then, making transgressions that he has accused other people of seems to be par for the course for Hawkeye in this game.
Post 2131
After CP points out that he changed his Avatar awhile ago, Hawkeye tries to hide his obvious blunder here by attacking CP for not pointing it out when he changed it. It seems to me that, for something that was *so* important to Hawkeye, he would have been paying attention to people's avatars and noticed if one changed. After this, he addresses each vote made against him. He excuses his vote on Hvir by saying that he would have played the role differently. Which is really no excuse. Then he misrepresents CP's vote against him. Then he blows off everything that Spoon says on the basis that 'Spoon doesn't know his playstyle'. Which, for all any of us know, could be true or untrue, because no one has any idea who Spoon is. Tries to excuse his attack on DYH by saying, again, that he 'just had some theory'. Nevermind that it was obvious even when he was attacking DYH that multiple people were opposed to what he was doing. Then there is atlseal's vote. Atlseal, the known scum. Of *all* of the votes on hawkeye at any point in this game, this is easily one of the weakest, but the ONLY ONE that Hawkeye doesn't put down. In fact, he says it is 'to atlseal's credit'. My interpretation? Atlseal tries to distance himself from a fellow scum, who then tries to make atlseal look better for doing so. Hawkeye also attacks CharmMaster's vote, but I can't fault him on that one.
Post 2154
Hawkeye disagrees with Raf's theory about the possible identity of Spoon, then puts Raf on the spot regarding Hawkeye's overall play. Then he disagrees with Spoon some more, and misinterprets the 'my voice is not my own' bit that DYH had stated. I mean, his conclusion about that statement is a possibility, but is the least likely of possibilities.
Post 2156
Here, Hawkeye realizes that DYH has started roleplaying out of nowhere, but somehow doesn't come to the conclusion that maybe this is what is meant by 'my voice is not my own'. Or at least, doesn't want to come to that conclusion. This is telling, because earlier Hawkeye ranted at Axel for quite awhile for 'only posting/listing possible outcomes that he wanted to, and ignoring others'. Yet, that is exactly what Hawkeye has done here. Just another example of hypocrisy on Hawkeye's part.
Post 2193
Here is Hawkeye's FIRST post regarding Loran, at a point where he essentially cannot dodge the topic anymore. What does he do? Tries to casually backup Loran's claim. A claim that we now know to be false.
Post 2268
Hawkeye's response to my latest attack on him. What was that response? Essentially, Hawkeye telling me to kiss his ass. Very nice. Now who is ignoring the points made against them, Hawkeye? It's worth noting that Hawkeye was never part of the lynch on Loran. The lynch on Kraj is irrelevant, and Hawkeye was part of the lynch of Hvir, obviously. Nice track record there.
Post 2276
Dodge's Raf's attack on him by calling into question the fact that Raf didn't vote for him. More blocking.
Post 2279
Continues to dodge Raf's initial question.
Post 2377
Continues to argue uselessly about the flavor of the bitten and drained kill. What is really happening here is what has happened repeatedly at this point. Hawkeye is ignoring a relevant wagon/suspect(atlseal) and focusing all of his attention on something completely and utterly pointless.
Post 2406
Hawkeye misrepresents my earlier(much earlier) defense of atlseal in an attempt to make his obvious backup of Loran look better. And again, he ignores the points that people do make against him, instead just stubbornly asking for points from people that aren't actually making them.
Post 2440
This is a huge post where Hawkeye addresses, inadequately, some of the points made against him. First Hawkeye makes the wild assumption that DYH knows something about his role(which we have no verification of). Then Hawkeye says 'and since he had no investigative abilities'...but how does Hawkeye know this? It wouldn't have surprised me, even remotely, if Silberman was some kind of investigator. Maybe Hawkeye knows something we don't hear. Hawkeye responds to Axelrod saying that Hawkeye hasn't taken responsibility for his actions this game by denying this, even though this sentiment is woefully accurate...Hawkeye has blown off every post people have made against him until this point. Then, he tries to twist around Axel's words regarding Hawkeye 'poo-pooing' people voting for him. Yay for more misrepresentation. Of course, he has nothing to say about the fact that he responded to a valid suspicion on my part with a 'moon' picture. Then he makes a bunch of responses to me, most of which make no sense. What Phanto has to do with anything, I have no idea. And apparently, it's not okay for me to agree with things that Grakthis mentions, but it's okay for Hawkeye to vote me based off of Grakthis' PBPA, and subsequently continually attack me for it. And yes Hawkeye, you do always lurk when you're scum. Just like this game...of the people still alive, you have one of the lowest post counts. And so much of your posting is just completely pointless roleplaying.
Post 2445
Immediately after the vote blackout occurs and it becomes impossible to really push Hawkeye, he claims with no prompting. Of course, his claim makes no sense whatsoever, and probably isn't real.
Post 2501
Claims that OTHER people can make sense of his role...but he can't? Right. This makes no sense to me at all.
Post 2540
In an obvious attempt to avoid the current topics of conversation(himself or atlseal), Hawkeye randomly asks for a list of claims. Apparently he can't be bothered to make it himself. This is just another example of of Hawkeye trying to create a distraction.
Post 2562
Rather than go along with the natural flow of things(and again, Hawkeye doesn't comment on atlseal at all), Hawkeye fishes for more information from Xyre.
Post 2581
Says he'll vote for atlseal. Votes from this point are practically academic, considering that Xyre has already flatly stated that he caught atlseal in a lie.
Post 2637
Votes atlseal, in the thread at least. Which is irrelevant anyway,as mentioned above.
Post 2652
Tries to accuse Axel of 'being the defense for atlseal'. Somehow, he manages to NOT condemn atlseal for letting someone else defend him. This bit seems pretty telling now that we know that atlseal is scum. It clearly looks like Hawkeye is trying to set Axel up here.
Post 2684
Really, really obvious fishing for someone else to go along with his upcoming attack on Axel.
Post 2695
Blatant attempt at trying to set up Axel because he 'defended' atlseal. Which Axel did not do, he was thinking out loud, as he has done much of this game. If Hawkeye were truly town, IMO, these types of posts would have come AFTER we knew atlseal's alignment. It doesn't make any sense, especially from a town perspective, to bring this all up now. Unless he's just trying to derail the wagon on atlseal, just like he did with Loran.
Post 2715
More of the same.
Post 2720
More of the same.
Post 2731
Apparently realizes that his attack on Axelrod is going nowhere, and resigns himself to atlseal being lynched. This post is really utterly pointless, regardless of whether or not he actually voted atlseal.
Post 2757
Tries to distance himself from fade's kill by asking people to speculate on why fade was killed.
Post 2761
Blows off my attack on him, again, misrepresenting it(again) at the same time. Apparently insinuates that I could be mafia, which, in addition to being OMGUS, is ridiculous.
Post 2854
Apparently, has decided that Puzzle will be his focus for today. Considering how much Hawkeye has dodged answering questions about his RPing so far, this post seems highly suspect.
Post 2862
Clarifies his last post to Puzzle as...fishing, apparently. How nice.
Anyway, that's it. I really don't think it could be any more clear that Hawkeye is scum. He has been egregiously guilty of misrepresentation, being evasive, being antagonistic, fishing, being a hypocrite, etc etc. He completely ignored the Loran wagon, which caught a scum, and ignored the Atlseal until atlseal being lynched was academic. During both of these wagons, he did everything in his power to bring up some other completely mundane and irrelevant issue. It's also worth noting that everyone he has put any effort into attacking is either A)confirmed town or B)damned near.
Hopefully it won't take people too long to change their post style from Vb 2.0 Postbit to 3.0 Postbit so they can respond to this. Weird bug.
Because we've got an SK and probably 2 mafia left to find.
How many people are unclaimed? Should we consider a massclaim at this point to weed out the final few?
If Abbey is scum, don't expect me to spot it. Same with Axel. I'd say both of them are acting different than I am used to, but it's a different site so I don't know that I can trust that.
I feel strongly that Raf is not mafia. I can make no comments about him not being the SK, because they don't give off the same tells. But he's def been pro-town during the day.
There is no chance of convincing me that CP is mafia at this point. He's been too pro-town during the days.
I hate that we're getting to the point where we have a list of "confirmed" abilities that we're kinda letting have a free pass. Maybe it's time for me to read some more of day 1 and 2 and look for people connecting themselves to our dead scum in unfortunate ways.
I def think we need clarification on the Charm_Master issue and don't we have a claimed tracker? He owes us some results from last night, no?
I'm bugged by this Charm Master thing. I don't understand it. I'll also note this little tidbit which worried me a tiny bit when he posted it, but after fade "vanillified" Puzzle I wasn't quite as worried anymore.
This was Charm Master's #2242:
What did he mean, this role is a "tree" that has been cut down? And the part about the Mafia "taking it away." If I was reading that in a vacuum I'd say it sounded like he was warning that the role itself could become a scum role - if the Mafia did something to it?
The other choice seems to be that he was just trolling for a Doc protection. But why would he be afraid of getting Night-killed? The role as described is no threat to Mafia. It's even less of a threat than regular vanilla townie because the player keeps changing.
I don't know, but it bugged me then. And now this new thing is worrisome.
Do I hear Puzzle professing he has no idea what ZDS is talking about (with CM not really being the Oracle and having some other ability in addition). Someone ought to know something about this.
@Axel: I don't really get the deal with Charm Master either, honestly. Puzzle has had the role for 2 days in a row now, right? I guess that's because he was, theoretically, 'made Vanilla'. Good play on the part of Fade, if it's true.
I am kinda reviewing some events surrounding our Oracle role.
Check this out.... Sorryguy was replaced by CM so CM became the active player and SG went to the "Limbo" list.
Then Chamber took SG's spot in Limbo.
So, Limbo is apparently important.
But our latest rule says we can target players on the replacement list, but NOT players in Limbo.
But players in Limbo are important enough that the moderator actively annouced a replacement event that occured IN LIMBO.
You know, you want to talk about our Alice in Wonderland role, I wonder if she was supposed to somehow interact with Limbo? Limbo is kind of a "place."
But the fact that Az puts these roles in Limbo instead of on the replacement list HAS to be significant. But why?
Ok, so here's what I think he was worried about; a mafia member being in limbo and getting the role.
What would have happened if someone had chosen ATL while ATL was in Limbo?
The mafia would have "gotten" this role. How bad would that have been?
First of all, someone needs to explain to me the difference between the Oracle and CM's role. Cause CM claimed The Oracle and all information we have about that role came from CM.
And if you remember, Agent Smith DID take the Oeacle and use her code against the heroes in 3.
Finally, I feel pretty confident that if the moderator developed a way that the oracle role could go to a mafioso, he sure as hell put in something bad for the town if that occured. Some kind of trigger or event or knowledge that the mafia would gain.
Like, you know, the mafia suddenly learns all of the towns roles or something ridiculous like that.
It's also worth mentioning that Azrael played in a game I ran on MT where the mafia were body snatchers, but each body had different abilities based on who they were. When a mafia member died due to anything but the lynch he could still take a new body.
I wonder if each replacement that the Oracle takes over has a "body" and each "body" has a different set of capabilities. Some of them are vanilla, some of them have abilities and probably atleast one of them is a trap.
The last time you supported any kind of mass claim and said it would have great results for the town..we all know what happened then. Are you really sure things will be different now?
@Puzzle: are you talking about a full claim, or just a "name" claim? Clearing one townie is not such a hot result. Though I tend to think with Mass claims I do pretty well in identifying the true from the false.
In terms of non-towniness, this is how I'm seeing things:
Vampyr
Alx2
Xyre
Grakthis
ZDS
Dagger
Cyan
Spoon
RafK
Abbey
HE7
Axelrod
Axelrod's at the bottom because I'm convinced that he's neutral, not because I believe him to be mafia. HE7 and Abbey are down there because of generally scummy behavior, and the Raf and Spoon because we don't know enough about their roles to make a better placement, but neither have really acted all that bad, IMO. If we were going to do a mass claim, it would primarily be for the sake of those two.
Next up is Cyan, but at this point, he's only this far down the list list due to his potential as a neutral. I don't think he's especially scummy, particularly compared to his normal play. Naturally, if Axel turns up SK or something, then Cyan looks a bit worse, but Cartoon Mafia did have a neutral role that was protecting a mafia role the same way that Cyan is protecting Axel, and Az was in that game; I could see something similar going on here. Dagger's role is less convincing than the masons, but I'm still willing to believe that it's an unlikely mafia role, especially given the number of other abilities that have gone unclaimed that keep happening. Then ZDS, because even though he's 'cleared,' he's been really scummy, and I can see a scenario in which he might be scum despite the identical PM thing. Vampyr is up much higher because, frankly, he doesn't act like scum. Alx2 and Xyre and Grak are at the top of the list because they have proven roles and behavior that just don't mesh with a mafia alignment. Alx2 has used his ability every night, so he has that going for him just like Dagger does, plus the fact that his role doesn't make sense on scum based on the roles we already know the scum have. Xyre proved his role and caught a scum with it when he had no special reason to do so. Grak has proven his day ability to my satisfaction, and I tend to doubt he could be the mafia blocker, and his behavior against loran and atlseal doesn't really make sense as mafia either.
So basically, I want to lynch Axel as the SK, but Hawkeye7 is certainly a decent target. If neither of those are satisfactory, I'd be willing to fall back on the mass claim idea, but for the moment, I think we have better targets.
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