Meh, someone will figure it out eventually anyhow.
Peter Silberman.
I'm a broken man struggling to cope with the current state of affairs.
I've seen so much violence... so many deaths... I just can't take this.
That's really pretty weak.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Is it? He probably shouldn't be Direct Quoting then, should he?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
At any rate, I didn't see the rule about not quoting direct from movies.
I, hypothetically speaking, wouldn't be talking about quoting from the movies.
This is assuming his quoting is in response to my asking what he is doing in the Matrix to begin with.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Just checking in, as I have few to add. I still think Loran is the correct play right now, even though his defense was O.K.
Oh, and FoS Carrion pigeons. Voting a confirmed watcher and mason, are you ?
Wow.....fence sitting much? Loran's defense was fine, but i still think he's the correct play. Oh and lets throw a little suspicion elsewhere perhaps!
Normally i'd look at your other posts after something like this, but you and wizz havent exactly posted much, hmmmm?
Also, @Ax, where are you going with this? iirc, the last az game, sincity, the town lost due to claim analysis rather than post analysis. Which seems to be what you're focusing on....
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I, hypothetically speaking, wouldn't be talking about quoting from the movies.
This is assuming his quoting is in response to my asking what he is doing in the Matrix to begin with.
Why would you not be talking about quoting from the movies?
What are any of us doing in the matrix?
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
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That actually brings us back to one of the unanswered Cyan/Axelrod questions of day 1 which they avoided answering. Are they here because the machines put John Connor here as a new "One", or are they here to fight machines?
Cyan claimed both at various times, and I was never happy with the contradiction. This would appear to be the opportune time to resolve the issue, especially since Axelrod is so interested in why DYH is also here (and since frankly neither explanation fits Silberman being here).
Wow.....fence sitting much? Loran's defense was fine, but i still think he's the correct play. Oh and lets throw a little suspicion elsewhere perhaps!
Normally i'd look at your other posts after something like this, but you and wizz havent exactly posted much, hmmmm?
J-Effe's had terrible posts like this the whole game. I kept pointing them out right when he replaced in, but no one seemed to notice. Then I'd get distracted with more pressing issues and move on because it's easy to write off his terrible play as terrible play rather than scummy play.
Later on when we don't have a dozen other things to talk about, pressing JE will be a good thing.
Moving on, I support RafK's question. I also don't think loran's played a particularly great game thus far, but I don't think he's anywhere near the scummiest player so far (that would be J-Effe). The fact that the case on him is horribly biased and its author is acting scummy doesn't help, even if he is a near-confirmed mason. Seriously, ZDS, you undertake a crusade on loran that's been building since day 1. Then Alx2 makes one arguably questionable and you turn straight over to him? What happened to your certainty that loran is scum?
I'm a newbie here, I've played only in vanilla, and newbie 12 + 13. But I know the game well enough for having played a lot on a French mafia forum.
@ fadeblue & Spoon : I do not really fear any wagon on me, as my role name is very likely to clear me ; if not, the full role claim certainly will. So go on, if you must. I'd just like you to quote my questionable posts, so I can explain them.
Meh, someone will figure it out eventually anyhow.
Peter Silberman.
I'm a broken man struggling to cope with the current state of affairs.
I've seen so much violence... so many deaths... I just can't take this.
Was this an actual name claim? Or are you just throwing flavor around?
@Alx: AG asked this, and you never answered. So I'll ask it again because I'd like to hear the answer: What was with voting without any reasons, waiting X many minutes and then giving the reasons? Can you explain that one?
Regarding the interest in J-Effe: Not that my opinion carries much weight, but he seems to be acting pretty much like he did in Vanilla mafia. At the very least he hasn't raised my suspicions so far.
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Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Alx: AG asked this, and you never answered. So I'll ask it again because I'd like to hear the answer: What was with voting without any reasons, waiting X many minutes and then giving the reasons? Can you explain that one?
Sorryguy has been replaced by Charm_Master3125. Then, Sorryguy is replaced by Chamber.
Voting with no reason was me heralding chamber's arrival. I never intended to withhold the reason for long, just wanted to see someone's reaction. When someone (didn't matter who) asked about it, I gave the reason.
But to explain further, searching through (a) random player(s) posts until you find enough "not pro-town" elements to build a somewhat believable case is classical scum-play.
@Fade: He verified the last vote count that I put up, so take that as official.
@RafK: you do realize that even had I not piped up about the "detenton specialist", anyone who claimed the N1 and N2 RB's would be under a lot of suspiscion due to thier targets.
N1: targets grakthis, who can (supposedly) remove the mason's only disability
N2: targets Xyre, who can give a spoon to a townie to do...something (still don't know what...)
IMO, those picks by thier nature are scummy, so you probably wouldn't have anyone claiming that they made those RB's.
Also, if Puzzle's on the replacement list, there's probably a good reason, becuase with this role, we'll need all of them...
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Fade claimed to be able to turn players into vanillas. The ability seemed pro-scum.
Rafk might have some form of untargetability, as was evidenced when he responded to Alx’s question on his target on Day 2 by asking whether the target was him. If it is true, he might be a scum since I can’t really see why a townie needs to be untargetable. There’s also some unease on my part on his play so far.
DYH’s role name is strange. In the context of the Matrix, what is his purpose?
AG claimed to be able to read Grak after a few days had passed. What is his read now that a few days had passed?
It’s ironic I trust one mason better over the other (Vampyr over ZDS) since it’s now apparent the only same PM they received is their role PM.
I am not really sure on J-Effe. His post on loran seemed to indicate fence-sitting but a reread on his previous posts yielded nothing really scummy.
I find loran and xyre scummy for their actions on going after the claimed investigator on Day 2 instead of the investigated scum.
My curiosity over CP’s apparently mysterious multivoting is killing me.
I am slightly disturbed to find I am leaning scum on only 3 players.
Rafk might have some form of untargetability, as was evidenced when he responded to Alx’s question on his target on Day 2 by asking whether the target was him. If it is true, he might be a scum since I can’t really see why a townie needs to be untargetable. There’s also some unease on my part on his play so far.
Star Trek had an untargetable townie. Untargetable means he's not NKable. This ability is good for everyone: townie, mafia, and neutral alike.
Just a heads-up, I'm gonna be out of state from the 10th to the 12th; I might have internet access, but it'll be spotty at best. Fortunatly, Azrael comes back on Friday, so it should be ok.
and on a game-related note, I checked the wierd dates atlseal posted...no apparent historical connection, although I'm gonna try looking some more.
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@fade: My current intention is to only be voting ZDS. As for the recently confirmed vote count by Az, I choose not to comment on the basis that it will reveal more about my role than seems necessary to reveal.
@ZDS:
Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur »
But to explain further, searching through (a) random player(s) posts until you find enough "not pro-town" elements to build a somewhat believable case is classical scum-play.
What you announce here is that the way you've been playing is classical scum play. This does not seem difficult.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
@fade: My current intention is to only be voting ZDS. As for the recently confirmed vote count by Az, I choose not to comment on the basis that it will reveal more about my role than seems necessary to reveal.
That's fine. I just wanted to know whether it was a mistake or not. It does mean that I haven't guessed everything about your role, but the fact still remains that you're not an ordinary multivoter. I still don't know if that makes you town or not, but at least now everyone is aware of it.
Based on J-Effe's last post, I'm willing to give him a pass for now. Though to answer his question: to be honest, part of it is based on Wizzpig's play, which obviously J-Effe can't answer for. The rest is a general feeling I've gotten from his posts. The only one that I recall really sticking out to me was where he did some fishing regarding Xyre.
In any case, J-Effe has already committed himself to being able to produce a guaranteed town role, and that's good enough for me at the moment.
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
How come you just started role-playing this today?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
How come you just started role-playing this today?
Quote from DYH »
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no roleplay aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Quote from DYH »
I'd rather not feel the consequences of failing to portay my true self today.
Underlined for emphasis. I'm trying to avoid any more torture, I've seen enough in my day.
Sorry, call me dense but I still don't get it. Unless you are saying that you have been somehow compelled to role-play today, unlike other days, and furthermore you are not allowed to simply explain this fact.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't think you're dense at all. It's hard to focus these days, you know. I keep seeing these visions over and over... it's like... deja vu. It's all so terrible. Such violence, such bloodshed. Today, however, is different from other days. Today I feel compelled to share my horrors with you all - to help you feel the fear that I do. I don't know who is responsible, I only know that I must.
Hmm. Day 2 Vamp got bit by the proverbial role-playing bug. Now DYH seems to have fallen to the same illness. Might we have a role that forces role-playing?
It's known as a placeholder loran. I have been working on this as I have found time at work. Links are not easy things to get together quickly...
Day 1 of PBPA on loran16 Post 4: Starts off, votes Az (Sin City ref) Post 14: Another Sin City ref Post 35: "Care to fish" post, Votes Xyre Post 46: Annoyance at Grak's playstyle Post 49: Clarification on Cyan's experience with Grak Post 64: Minor roleplaying (blue trident), response to Grak Post 71: Response to minor poking from Grak Post 72: Response to Wizzpig's charges of Xyre being "defensive" by saying "vocal players come off as defensive when accused for baseless reasons" Post 75: "I'm just saying calling being "defensive" a scum tell is just a way for any wagon to spiral out of control into a lynch the first chance possible." Post 88: Forgets that he is voting Xyre (despite somewhat defending him), unvotes Post 92: Asks Spoon to self-vote twice Post 98: Votecount request Post 101: Response to Grak about me Post 158: Votes Xyre for OMGUS votes on Vampyr and Cyan Post 164: Response to ZDS' vote on him (making it 3 at that juncture), trying to reconcile the disconnect with his behavior Re: Xyre Post 169: Response to Xyre's charge of bandwagonning Post 172: Response to CP about his vote in 158 of Xyre Post 179: Says that fishing is something that townies do almost as often as scum. Says that his vote in 35 was a warning (hard to say), and future fishes should be the basis of a wagon. Post 181: Again trying to reconcile his actions, Re: Xyre Post 185: Says that Vampyr's vote was a bad one but Cyan's was a good one Post 192: Clarification requested from CP Post 200: FoS (then later in the post Votes: CP). Wants to know what he knows about Hvir Post 209: Responds to question from Vampyr: "Read the thread" Post 222: Violently asserts that multivote != cleared. FoS's ZDS for assuming that. Then says that he has been getting scummy vibes but wants to hear Alx first. Post 226: Appeals to authority to counter ZDS reading CP as townie. Keeps asserting multi-voter != cleared Post 228: Response to Grak Re: voting the mod Post 237: Asks for modprod on Athos (who is voting him) Post 248: Pirate-themed response to idea of Smith being mafia Post 250: "Pirate comment about arimnes was a joke" Post 254: Trying to justify pirate reference as a joke to answer Cyans question Post 255: Double posts to tell Grak to use standard abbreviations. Hates being called lauren Post 258: Doesn't like the comedy thing. Post 260: Again reiterates that the pirate thing was a joke Post 273: unvotes CP. Asks Sutherlands if there is a reason he missed it? Post 274: retierates that he unvoted CP. Puts an IGMEOY for Cyan being opportunistic Post 275: Votes Grak for "craplogic" on what is a tried-and-true joke for him from MT Post 281: More on his joke about arminaes Post 284: Discussion about Sutherlands forgetting a votecount. Says mod doesn't like killing players with pet roles Post 287: Response to Axel, could see Sutherlands and ZDS being mafia together, wants to hear ZDS' response Post 201: Defends H-guy from some of Grak's accusations, but agrees H-guy should vote more Post 305: Says that Grak's case against H-guy uses loaded language. Response to atlseal's proposition of ZDS lying about the -2 restriction Post 307: Agrees with me that nameclaim should proceed a full one. Liked my ADWOD reference. Post 310: Speculates ZDS is a mason from nameclaim Post 317: Unvotes for mason claim. Claims ZDS was after him before the wagon started Post 319: Double posts, doesn't want other mason to come out Post 326: Jokes with Axel, doesn't want 2nd mason coming out Post 347: Points out an error in Sutherlands' votecount Post 348: Doesn't think Alx's cross-game comparison is valid Post 364: Dislikes LJustus' statement that there is scum on ZDS' wagon. Also wants reasons from ZDS for his vote (still at 3 votes and not really a topic of discussion) Post 365: Reference to ongoing game removed Post 367: Response to DYH pointing out an ongoing game Post 373: Response to my "Grak being Grak" comment. Doesn't like it still, willing to dismiss Grak for it Post 380: Wants examples from ZDS Post 381: Asks mod for update on Athos Post 384: Goes back to explain his actions Re: Xyre. Would welcome a PBPA (here it is, be welcoming ) Post 389: Response to ZDS: either dismissive or incredulous that ZDS isn't reading things the same way as him Post 390: Correction to 389 Post 393: Response to Grak's question of him of how the "lo0aded language" loran keeps harping on is scummy. Post 420: Response to Xyre's PBPA. Rehash of points he has been using all along (pirate thing was a joke, no need for 2nd mason reveal, PoV changes over time) along with some new material. "Also the prodding has to do with the fact that a. i hate lurkers, and b. every time i see a vote count his random vote is till on me. That annoys me." Is the first strong instance of loran being defensive. If the vote is by someone who isn't contributing, and the vote put you in no danger, what do you care? Post 424: Jokes with Sutherlands, repeats, defensive != scummy Post 441: Apologizes for missing a Xyre response, FoS Sutherlands for his kill-a-mason plan Post 518: Check in post, will start a player by player analysis Post 539: Does Spoon (whom he finds weird), fade (whom he FoS's) and DYH (whom he finds townie) Post 588: Says that Cyan has been only responding to weak points of arguements. Wants to vote atlseal, but FoS's him instead waiting for a votecount. Neutral on H-guy Post 625: Votes atlseal for being "scummy as hell earlier". Doesn't like JoAT claim Post 682: Reacts to arminaes' daykill by saying "I was hoping az wouldn't repeat himself" then Unvotes atlseal Post 689: Admits that arimnaes' death had nothing to do with voting atlseal, says that he now wants to finish his reviews of players before revoting. Post 691: Response to Athos, brings up his lurkage as a reason to dismiss his arguments with Pod, then advises him how to play better Post 693: Response to Athos, says that the tone of his post was adversarial Post 699: Analysis of RafeK (whom he doesn't call the scummiest player, but is a little questionalbe) and Axelrod (disagrees with him, but finds him townie) Post 720: Asks fadeblue to prove he can vote Post 721: Edit: 720 was a reference to his earlier analysis of fade Post 728: Points out a flaw in Xyre's plan Re: atlseal, saying atlseal will likely be lynched tomorrow. Explains why he wanted fade to vote Post 731: Says he normally doesn't mind Day 1 observer role but basically says "728 posts is no normal D1. You should have some opinions and votes by now." Compares fade's behavior to the case against Vampyr Post 751: Clarifies his position on fade not voting: "IN other words, what fade's doing right now essentially would leave someone looking back at day 1 with absolutely nothing on fade, just like a lurker. And it bothers me, especially from as good a player as fade." Says he would prefer to lynch atlseal tomorrow. Post 773: Explains why Alx's cross-referencing games isn't helpful. Explains why fade's lack of votes bothers him, because it leaves no history Post 788: Agrees with Alx in disapproving of Axel's question about Cyan's role but doesn't think Cyan will answer it due to lack of pressure (even though there are 5 votes on him) Post 790: Rationale for disapproving of Axel's question Post 792: Response to Axel further fleshing out his rationale for disproving of Axel's question, claims he didn't realize that there were 5 votes on Cyan (and discounts fade's vote as demo only) Post 799: Response to fade telling him his vote is more than a demo, again re-iterates that he didn't realize Cyan was at 5 Post 918: Reaction to LJustus' claim: he won't dismiss the possibility of a jester. Asks about LJ's second ability as regards to NKs Post 925: Response to Alx's suggestion on waiting on LJ. Doesn't see LJ's play as something a non-town aligned player would do Post 943: Now alright with waiting on LJ (forgetting that Alx was the one who suggested a delay) Post 974: Finds Cyan townie and thinks that people are too eager to lynch him Post 979: Agrees with RafeK's point of why Cyan would rather have LJ lynched first if Cyan is scum. Thinks Cyan's post 978 sounds emotional Post 980: Now wants clarification on Cyan's post 978 Post 1037: Suggests that atlseal investigate Grak. In favor of lynching LJ to get results on atlseal Post 1101: Doesn't like how Cyan is getting close to lycnhed. Will look into Hvir Post 1108: Matrix Reloaded is on POst 1117: Now scratches player analysis until night falls Post 1170: Asks for a vote count, fears LJ hammered himself, doesn't like that Alx claimed, and still supports investigating atlseal Post 1187: Pseudo-votes (with an FoS) Cyan. Would prefer an investigation rather than vig on Cyan from atlseal. Admits he missed Cyan claiming multiple lives Post 1197: Explains logic to his pseudo-vote when prompted by Cyan. Mentions "arim's lynch tomorrow" which is weird because arim was why he unvoted atlseal?? Post 1199: Clarifies that he meant "atlseal" in post 1197 where arim. is. Then accuses Cyan of being "argumentative" about it. Speculates on improbability of Cyan's role Post 1202: Working through Cyan's explanation of his role, he thinks it is a bit ridiculous Post 1205: Answers a balance question that he missed from Xyre, goes into more detail of why he finds Cyans role improbable Post 1237: Asks for prod on Athos Post 1280: Fabricates a possible neutral role PM for Cyan's claim. Mentions JC Superstar in Sin City Post 1291: Talks about possibility to Cyan being a mafia reporter or being blocked (although I am pretty sure by this point Cyan had said he cant be blocked). Post 1304: Responds to my post about -1 saying "I might add that i was going to vote him except for the -1 thing, since i didnt want to lynch him before the town agreed we should end the day." Sees slow wagons as a non-tell Post 1309: Asking to hammer is a non-tell Post 1352: Doesn't want anyone to assume machines are "behind this", pointing to arim. Still doesn't believe cyans claim Post 1364: PBPA where the person examined comes out as town are still useful. Pseudo-unvotes Cyan, no idea of where to go next Post 1410: Can't imagine atlseal or Hvir lying about their roles unless they are scum together (what about just 1?). Asks about Hvir's locations thing (which he had answered) Post 1414: Clarifies 1410 as Axel brought up the unaccounted middle problem implicit in it. Would suspect the Cheshire cat more likely scum Post 1449: Won't use flavor as a character judge when it comes to Alice + Terminator chars. Finds flavor arguments confusing. Finds Alice role to be somewhat impossible in its mechnaics. Votes Hvir (putting him at -1) Post 1450: Unvotes due to simul-post Post 1458: Asks mod for Athos to be replaced Post 1462: Not in favor of ZDS partner coming out
Day 1 Ends
Day 2 of PBPA on loran16 Post 1516: Reaction to atlseal "considering atl's reactions yesteday, i think it's quite likely he's scum trying to get the town to mislynch before he dies" Post 1517: Votes atlseal because "We got his "investigation" , and its hardly believable. I think lynching him today (especially since he's a claimed 1 shot) is the right play." Post 1525: Explains rationale for atlseal vote as: atlseal was more scummy D1 and I don't want to mislynch again, ignoring that he was claiming a cult (not scum) investigation Post 1527: Response to my vaguely worded cult post Post 1532: Agrees that a 1 for 1 is in the town's best interest if atl is lying scum. But still thinks that atlseal is the correct lynch. Post 1533: Spam Post 1593: Unvotes atl, says that it is possible that atl is still scum and wants to know if he has grinned yet? Would vote Kraj, but fears ending the day early. Tell Alx to keep quiet and is confused by ZDS and Vampyr Post 1722: Disagrees with HE7 (while backhandedly calling him town) on cult-recruiting mafia. AGainst the smith avatar plan, and against vigging fade due to his recruitment. Says Kraj is the obvious play, and wants whoever gets a spoon to stay quiet
Day 2 Ends
Day 3 Post 1797: Doesn't understand chat about Vamp, FoS's Alx for unncessary info, thinks the spoon thing is weird as well and wants to hear from Xyre Post 1818: Dismisses the 3 people voting for him, disagrees with Grak that a lot of things could have happened, asks DYH to change his avatar Post 1835: More talk and conjecture about Xyre and his spoons Post 1844: "Please do post this case. I'm getting tired of having you focus on me singlemindedly." Post 1854: Long response to ZDS's case Post 1856: Finishes response to ZDS's case Post 1860: Response to ZDS's response Post 1861: Clarification on 1860 Post 1880: More banter with ZDS Post 1902: Reaction to Alx's unexplained vote on me. Thinks RafeK's theory of revolving scum possible, agrees with ZDS' assertion that PBPAs are hard to make objective Post 1934: Accuses J-Effe IV of looking for a new target of opportunity with his FoS. Asks Alx where he is going and cautions agianst claim analysis
Analysis
loran has done some sketchy things, but I actually feel slightly better about him than I did before I started this exercise, not enough to unvote him yet, but enough to be open to hearing others' thoughts.
loran spends a considerable amount of time carving out the intellectual argument that being defensive != being scum. If I were cynical, I would say that is because he knows that he is by nature, defensive and doesn't want to be lynched.
He also has spent a lot of time rehashing his points of view and insisting that the pirate reference was a joke (in post 250).
He has a contradiction in what he is saying between posts 682 where he unvotes atlseal "due to recent developments" and then in 689 admitting that arimnaes' death had nothing to do with voting for atlseal. The interesting thing is that he doesn't re-vote but instead becomes more devoted to his player analysis project which he wishes to complete before voting.
A second contradiction is in post 731 where he said doesn't mind Day 1 "observers" but flips out about Athos vote and asks for prods and replacements throughout the day.
loran doesn't seem to be paying attention to votes (forgot he was voting for Xyre while defending him in the early game), missed pressure building on Cyan Day 1. He also asked for details on roles that were already provided by those players before he asked (Alice's locations thing springs to mind immediately)
Then in post 1187 he pseudo-votes Cyan while up until that point (Post 1101) loran found Cyan and worried about the wagon growing on him.
I really didn't like his comment on Hvir's claim in post 1410: "i cant imagine either atl or H-guy lying at this point unless they're BOTH scum, as atl claimed a alice-role first, and H-guy claimed the alice-role most likely to be in the game." Which is a textbook case of an unaccounted middle.
His behavior toward the Kraj wagon is also something that I find disturbing. In posts: 1516, 1517, 1525 he either ignores or doesn't read that it is a cult result and insists that atlseal is the correct play. The correct play is always to stamp out the cult first, although I actually agree with loran that finding the cult says nothing about atlseal's alignment. The mafia wants the cult dead as badly as the town does, but arguing to lynch a claimed JoAT before a cultist isn't a point in his favor as a vig could easily have saved a D3 lynch by taking out atlseal N2.
I don't think you're dense at all. It's hard to focus these days, you know. I keep seeing these visions over and over... it's like... deja vu. It's all so terrible. Such violence, such bloodshed. Today, however, is different from other days. Today I feel compelled to share my horrors with you all - to help you feel the fear that I do. I don't know who is responsible, I only know that I must.
I have thread overload.
Does anyone else want to claim having this experience? Because it is bothering me.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Hmm. Day 2 Vamp got bit by the proverbial role-playing bug. Now DYH seems to have fallen to the same illness. Might we have a role that forces role-playing?
Maybe, but Vamp hasn't suggested that.
I read DYH as saying he was happy to take whatever penalty he gets for not roleplaying previously, but now he isn't.
Re: AG's PBPA of loran:
1) Yay for long PBPAs which appear to demonstrate a lot of effort but actually just repeat what was said in each post. At least it didn't appear (too) slanted. Until I got to the end and saw "analysis coming" I was ready to vote for AG for this.
2) The analysis seems largely fair but doesn't establish enough. I do note that I find the prodding of replacement for Athos (replaced by KRAJ) to be a point in loran's favour. If he's mafia, he was making an effort to get a lurker into the game that he knew wasn't on his side.
The point about atl and Hvir being both town OR both scum looked bad at the time, but I don't see what it would accomplish with the hindsight that Hvir was town. You could say he was trying to use the likely Hvir lynch to also clear atlseal, I guess, but that's stretching to loran and atlseal being scum together, which I really doubt.
As I said at the time, I think the argument to lynch atlseal rather than Kraj was BAD, but I am not convinced it was a scum move as such.
Axelrod: You and Cyan are still not answering my question. Until you do, unvote, vote Axelrod.
He's not answering it because it is a completely useless, irrelevant question, taking a flavor-based statement that I made and blowing it wildly out of proportion.
Seriously. I said that I'm here to protect him as long as I can while he teaches people to fight against the machines. His role is 'Mentor'. You do you know a mentor is the same as a teacher, right? Right. Stop wasting everyone's time.
I'm reading the part of my role PM where it says that I have to protect him for as long as possible so that he can teach people to fight the machines. It doesn't take alot of intuition to realize that someone that fights the machines = town.
Learn to read. I said that Connor was captured by the machines and inserted into the matrix as the original One. I was created by Zionist hackers to protect him.
My voice is no longer my own- my vote should not be counted. Anyone can change their avatar, Hawkeye.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
DYH, are you quite sure you don’t want to rethink the answers you gave in this post?
Are you the person who actually answered the questions ?
Or are you just the person who posted the answers to those questions?
Can you tell us how to make it stop?
Can you tell us how to get out of here?
If you can’t tell us, is there someone else who knows?
That actually brings us back to one of the unanswered Cyan/Axelrod questions of day 1 which they avoided answering. Are they here because the machines put John Connor here as a new "One", or are they here to fight machines?
Cyan claimed both at various times, and I was never happy with the contradiction. This would appear to be the opportune time to resolve the issue, especially since Axelrod is so interested in why DYH is also here (and since frankly neither explanation fits Silberman being here).
to save some time, Raf, can you point out the post in which Cyan posted both these positions?
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RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Actually, Raf contradicts himself(not surprisingly. ) Just look in the post where he quotes me, Connor was inserted as the ORIGINAL one. Oh, and of course, I'm 'pretty sure' that The One fights against the machines.
I don't understand your "question" either, Raf. I already said that everything Cyan said about my backstory was essentially right out of my PM. This is why I was so inclined to believe him in the first place.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Connor was captured by the machines and inserted into the matrix as the original One.
Quote from Cyan »
I said that John Connor was brought in to teach people to fight the machines
The above is blatantly contradictory. Please don't play dumb. It's insulting. Or are you trying to tell me that the machines brought in John Connor to fight the machines?
I read DYH as saying he was happy to take whatever penalty he gets for not roleplaying previously, but now he isn't.
And here I thought I was the one who was confused in this violent realm. No, this is not right at all. This effect just happened to me last night and as far as I know applies only to the current day.
Hawkeye appears to be even more confused than you, though. I don't understand at all what he's getting at with those bizarre questions.
I really can't see any point to all of this, other than RafK fishing for a modkill.
This is literally the last time I am going to explain this again. Especially since you're just randomly fishing through my posts to find what suits you, and ignoring where I already explained this exactly.
Connor was brought into the matrix by the machines to be the first one. His essence survived since then, and I was created to protect him while he teaches people to fight against the machines.
If I get modkilled for all of this, as is most likely what RafK is trying to accomplish, please lynch him.
This "OMG modkill business" makes me even more suspicious of Cyan, because it seems to me like he's trying to cover himself with bluster.
For the record, Cyan you didn't explain the inconsistency before- you ignored it, and a second ago you even admitted you had been ignoring it. I don't get where asking you to explain yourself is fishing for a modkill. Axelrod directly fished for a modkill on DYH by asking if he was quoting from his PM- I didn't see you complaining then.
Your explanation of the inconsistency suffices, although the fact remains that your stated belief that anti-machine = anti-town still suggests very strongly to me that you are indeed a neutral of some kind. However, that also keeps you alive for the time being, since there's no sign at the moment that you're responsible for any kills.
And here I thought I was the one who was confused in this violent realm. No, this is not right at all. This effect just happened to me last night and as far as I know applies only to the current day.
Vamp, did you get that too?
Hawkeye appears to be even more confused than you, though. I don't understand at all what he's getting at with those bizarre questions.
The above is blatantly contradictory. Please don't play dumb. It's insulting. Or are you trying to tell me that the machines brought in John Connor to fight the machines?
Well, yes? You know, in Matrix Mythology, the Machines do create "The One" and "The One" does fight "against the machines." It's just that they are expecting it, and deem it necessary for the program to run correctly.
That is not, however, what is going on with me now. I am not "The One" anymore. What Cyan said more or less is what's going on with me now. My "spirit" (in a programming code sense) remains inside the Matrix.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well, yes? You know, in Matrix Mythology, the Machines do create "The One" and "The One" does fight "against the machines." It's just that they are expecting it, and deem it necessary for the program to run correctly.
I'd thought he was saying you had come in recently/now to fight the machines (reinforced by the fact that John Connor didn't seem to be around fighting the machines during the movie continuity!), which clashed with him saying that you were brought in as the first One.
The remaining matters set out in my post above still militate to a conclusion that Cyan at least is a non-town neutral (
The remaining matters set out in my post above still militate to a conclusion that Cyan at least is a non-town neutral (and maybe Axelrod, although I could see ways that Cyan can be a neutral- goal: Axelrod outlives all machines?- and Axelrod town).
It took me until the "cue the sun" bit to finally realize who Hawkeye is...and I'm also confused why you're in the Matrix, Mr. Truman...We've had enough outside roles, and this is one even I can't link to the Matrix...Vote Hawkeye
Re: DYH's vote: you voted, you've yet to unvote, and whoever you've proxied your vote to (which I beleive you haven't) hasn't unvoted you either. the vote stands.
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
That's really pretty weak.
Oh, and FoS Carrion pigeons. Voting a confirmed watcher and mason, are you ?
It's a direct quote from Terminator 3.
Is it? He probably shouldn't be Direct Quoting then, should he?
At any rate, I didn't see the rule about not quoting direct from movies.
Yes. You got me.
I, hypothetically speaking, wouldn't be talking about quoting from the movies.
This is assuming his quoting is in response to my asking what he is doing in the Matrix to begin with.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Wow.....fence sitting much? Loran's defense was fine, but i still think he's the correct play. Oh and lets throw a little suspicion elsewhere perhaps!
Normally i'd look at your other posts after something like this, but you and wizz havent exactly posted much, hmmmm?
Also, @Ax, where are you going with this? iirc, the last az game, sincity, the town lost due to claim analysis rather than post analysis. Which seems to be what you're focusing on....
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Why would you not be talking about quoting from the movies?
What are any of us doing in the matrix?
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Cyan claimed both at various times, and I was never happy with the contradiction. This would appear to be the opportune time to resolve the issue, especially since Axelrod is so interested in why DYH is also here (and since frankly neither explanation fits Silberman being here).
J-Effe's had terrible posts like this the whole game. I kept pointing them out right when he replaced in, but no one seemed to notice. Then I'd get distracted with more pressing issues and move on because it's easy to write off his terrible play as terrible play rather than scummy play.
Later on when we don't have a dozen other things to talk about, pressing JE will be a good thing.
Moving on, I support RafK's question. I also don't think loran's played a particularly great game thus far, but I don't think he's anywhere near the scummiest player so far (that would be J-Effe). The fact that the case on him is horribly biased and its author is acting scummy doesn't help, even if he is a near-confirmed mason. Seriously, ZDS, you undertake a crusade on loran that's been building since day 1. Then Alx2 makes one arguably questionable and you turn straight over to him? What happened to your certainty that loran is scum?
Anyhoo. Spoon out.
I support a J-Effe wagon. He's had several questionable posts, but I've never played with him before, so I wasn't sure if he's just a newb.
@ fadeblue & Spoon : I do not really fear any wagon on me, as my role name is very likely to clear me ; if not, the full role claim certainly will. So go on, if you must. I'd just like you to quote my questionable posts, so I can explain them.
Was this an actual name claim? Or are you just throwing flavor around?
@Alx: AG asked this, and you never answered. So I'll ask it again because I'd like to hear the answer: What was with voting without any reasons, waiting X many minutes and then giving the reasons? Can you explain that one?
Regarding the interest in J-Effe: Not that my opinion carries much weight, but he seems to be acting pretty much like he did in Vanilla mafia. At the very least he hasn't raised my suspicions so far.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Well...
Voting with no reason was me heralding chamber's arrival. I never intended to withhold the reason for long, just wanted to see someone's reaction. When someone (didn't matter who) asked about it, I gave the reason.
In before cp: so are you claiming "not pro-town then"?
@RafK: you do realize that even had I not piped up about the "detenton specialist", anyone who claimed the N1 and N2 RB's would be under a lot of suspiscion due to thier targets.
N1: targets grakthis, who can (supposedly) remove the mason's only disability
N2: targets Xyre, who can give a spoon to a townie to do...something (still don't know what...)
IMO, those picks by thier nature are scummy, so you probably wouldn't have anyone claiming that they made those RB's.
Also, if Puzzle's on the replacement list, there's probably a good reason, becuase with this role, we'll need all of them...
Vote-count thingy
1 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
4 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Loran16
Rafaelk
Alx2
Neutral:
Fadeblue
DYH
Xyre
Hawkeye7
Pod
Abbeygargoyle
ZDS
J-Effe IV
Leaning town:
Spoon
Axelrod
Cyan
Grakthis
Carrion Pigeons
Charmmaster3125
Atlseal
Vampyr
Some notes:
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
and on a game-related note, I checked the wierd dates atlseal posted...no apparent historical connection, although I'm gonna try looking some more.
Vote-count thingy
1 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
4 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
@ZDS:
What you announce here is that the way you've been playing is classical scum play. This does not seem difficult.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
That's fine. I just wanted to know whether it was a mistake or not. It does mean that I haven't guessed everything about your role, but the fact still remains that you're not an ordinary multivoter. I still don't know if that makes you town or not, but at least now everyone is aware of it.
Based on J-Effe's last post, I'm willing to give him a pass for now. Though to answer his question: to be honest, part of it is based on Wizzpig's play, which obviously J-Effe can't answer for. The rest is a general feeling I've gotten from his posts. The only one that I recall really sticking out to me was where he did some fishing regarding Xyre.
In any case, J-Effe has already committed himself to being able to produce a guaranteed town role, and that's good enough for me at the moment.
@Vamp: I am Peter Silberman.
@others: I have no knowledge of why I'm here, only that I have bad memories of the metal killing machines and random events that keep playing in my head. Make it stop!
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
How come you just started role-playing this today?
Underlined for emphasis. I'm trying to avoid any more torture, I've seen enough in my day.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I'm working on a J-Effe case.
Day 1 of PBPA on loran16
Post 4: Starts off, votes Az (Sin City ref)
Post 14: Another Sin City ref
Post 35: "Care to fish" post, Votes Xyre
Post 46: Annoyance at Grak's playstyle
Post 49: Clarification on Cyan's experience with Grak
Post 64: Minor roleplaying (blue trident), response to Grak
Post 71: Response to minor poking from Grak
Post 72: Response to Wizzpig's charges of Xyre being "defensive" by saying "vocal players come off as defensive when accused for baseless reasons"
Post 75: "I'm just saying calling being "defensive" a scum tell is just a way for any wagon to spiral out of control into a lynch the first chance possible."
Post 88: Forgets that he is voting Xyre (despite somewhat defending him), unvotes
Post 92: Asks Spoon to self-vote twice
Post 98: Votecount request
Post 101: Response to Grak about me
Post 158: Votes Xyre for OMGUS votes on Vampyr and Cyan
Post 164: Response to ZDS' vote on him (making it 3 at that juncture), trying to reconcile the disconnect with his behavior Re: Xyre
Post 169: Response to Xyre's charge of bandwagonning
Post 172: Response to CP about his vote in 158 of Xyre
Post 179: Says that fishing is something that townies do almost as often as scum. Says that his vote in 35 was a warning (hard to say), and future fishes should be the basis of a wagon.
Post 181: Again trying to reconcile his actions, Re: Xyre
Post 185: Says that Vampyr's vote was a bad one but Cyan's was a good one
Post 192: Clarification requested from CP
Post 200: FoS (then later in the post Votes: CP). Wants to know what he knows about Hvir
Post 209: Responds to question from Vampyr: "Read the thread"
Post 222: Violently asserts that multivote != cleared. FoS's ZDS for assuming that. Then says that he has been getting scummy vibes but wants to hear Alx first.
Post 226: Appeals to authority to counter ZDS reading CP as townie. Keeps asserting multi-voter != cleared
Post 228: Response to Grak Re: voting the mod
Post 237: Asks for modprod on Athos (who is voting him)
Post 248: Pirate-themed response to idea of Smith being mafia
Post 250: "Pirate comment about arimnes was a joke"
Post 254: Trying to justify pirate reference as a joke to answer Cyans question
Post 255: Double posts to tell Grak to use standard abbreviations. Hates being called lauren
Post 258: Doesn't like the comedy thing.
Post 260: Again reiterates that the pirate thing was a joke
Post 273: unvotes CP. Asks Sutherlands if there is a reason he missed it?
Post 274: retierates that he unvoted CP. Puts an IGMEOY for Cyan being opportunistic
Post 275: Votes Grak for "craplogic" on what is a tried-and-true joke for him from MT
Post 281: More on his joke about arminaes
Post 284: Discussion about Sutherlands forgetting a votecount. Says mod doesn't like killing players with pet roles
Post 287: Response to Axel, could see Sutherlands and ZDS being mafia together, wants to hear ZDS' response
Post 201: Defends H-guy from some of Grak's accusations, but agrees H-guy should vote more
Post 305: Says that Grak's case against H-guy uses loaded language. Response to atlseal's proposition of ZDS lying about the -2 restriction
Post 307: Agrees with me that nameclaim should proceed a full one. Liked my ADWOD reference.
Post 310: Speculates ZDS is a mason from nameclaim
Post 317: Unvotes for mason claim. Claims ZDS was after him before the wagon started
Post 319: Double posts, doesn't want other mason to come out
Post 326: Jokes with Axel, doesn't want 2nd mason coming out
Post 347: Points out an error in Sutherlands' votecount
Post 348: Doesn't think Alx's cross-game comparison is valid
Post 364: Dislikes LJustus' statement that there is scum on ZDS' wagon. Also wants reasons from ZDS for his vote (still at 3 votes and not really a topic of discussion)
Post 365: Reference to ongoing game removed
Post 367: Response to DYH pointing out an ongoing game
Post 373: Response to my "Grak being Grak" comment. Doesn't like it still, willing to dismiss Grak for it
Post 380: Wants examples from ZDS
Post 381: Asks mod for update on Athos
Post 384: Goes back to explain his actions Re: Xyre. Would welcome a PBPA (here it is, be welcoming )
Post 389: Response to ZDS: either dismissive or incredulous that ZDS isn't reading things the same way as him
Post 390: Correction to 389
Post 393: Response to Grak's question of him of how the "lo0aded language" loran keeps harping on is scummy.
Post 420: Response to Xyre's PBPA. Rehash of points he has been using all along (pirate thing was a joke, no need for 2nd mason reveal, PoV changes over time) along with some new material. "Also the prodding has to do with the fact that a. i hate lurkers, and b. every time i see a vote count his random vote is till on me. That annoys me." Is the first strong instance of loran being defensive. If the vote is by someone who isn't contributing, and the vote put you in no danger, what do you care?
Post 424: Jokes with Sutherlands, repeats, defensive != scummy
Post 441: Apologizes for missing a Xyre response, FoS Sutherlands for his kill-a-mason plan
Post 518: Check in post, will start a player by player analysis
Post 539: Does Spoon (whom he finds weird), fade (whom he FoS's) and DYH (whom he finds townie)
Post 588: Says that Cyan has been only responding to weak points of arguements. Wants to vote atlseal, but FoS's him instead waiting for a votecount. Neutral on H-guy
Post 625: Votes atlseal for being "scummy as hell earlier". Doesn't like JoAT claim
Post 682: Reacts to arminaes' daykill by saying "I was hoping az wouldn't repeat himself" then Unvotes atlseal
Post 689: Admits that arimnaes' death had nothing to do with voting atlseal, says that he now wants to finish his reviews of players before revoting.
Post 691: Response to Athos, brings up his lurkage as a reason to dismiss his arguments with Pod, then advises him how to play better
Post 693: Response to Athos, says that the tone of his post was adversarial
Post 699: Analysis of RafeK (whom he doesn't call the scummiest player, but is a little questionalbe) and Axelrod (disagrees with him, but finds him townie)
Post 720: Asks fadeblue to prove he can vote
Post 721: Edit: 720 was a reference to his earlier analysis of fade
Post 728: Points out a flaw in Xyre's plan Re: atlseal, saying atlseal will likely be lynched tomorrow. Explains why he wanted fade to vote
Post 731: Says he normally doesn't mind Day 1 observer role but basically says "728 posts is no normal D1. You should have some opinions and votes by now." Compares fade's behavior to the case against Vampyr
Post 751: Clarifies his position on fade not voting: "IN other words, what fade's doing right now essentially would leave someone looking back at day 1 with absolutely nothing on fade, just like a lurker. And it bothers me, especially from as good a player as fade." Says he would prefer to lynch atlseal tomorrow.
Post 773: Explains why Alx's cross-referencing games isn't helpful. Explains why fade's lack of votes bothers him, because it leaves no history
Post 788: Agrees with Alx in disapproving of Axel's question about Cyan's role but doesn't think Cyan will answer it due to lack of pressure (even though there are 5 votes on him)
Post 790: Rationale for disapproving of Axel's question
Post 792: Response to Axel further fleshing out his rationale for disproving of Axel's question, claims he didn't realize that there were 5 votes on Cyan (and discounts fade's vote as demo only)
Post 799: Response to fade telling him his vote is more than a demo, again re-iterates that he didn't realize Cyan was at 5
Post 918: Reaction to LJustus' claim: he won't dismiss the possibility of a jester. Asks about LJ's second ability as regards to NKs
Post 925: Response to Alx's suggestion on waiting on LJ. Doesn't see LJ's play as something a non-town aligned player would do
Post 943: Now alright with waiting on LJ (forgetting that Alx was the one who suggested a delay)
Post 974: Finds Cyan townie and thinks that people are too eager to lynch him
Post 979: Agrees with RafeK's point of why Cyan would rather have LJ lynched first if Cyan is scum. Thinks Cyan's post 978 sounds emotional
Post 980: Now wants clarification on Cyan's post 978
Post 1037: Suggests that atlseal investigate Grak. In favor of lynching LJ to get results on atlseal
Post 1101: Doesn't like how Cyan is getting close to lycnhed. Will look into Hvir
Post 1108: Matrix Reloaded is on
POst 1117: Now scratches player analysis until night falls
Post 1170: Asks for a vote count, fears LJ hammered himself, doesn't like that Alx claimed, and still supports investigating atlseal
Post 1187: Pseudo-votes (with an FoS) Cyan. Would prefer an investigation rather than vig on Cyan from atlseal. Admits he missed Cyan claiming multiple lives
Post 1197: Explains logic to his pseudo-vote when prompted by Cyan. Mentions "arim's lynch tomorrow" which is weird because arim was why he unvoted atlseal??
Post 1199: Clarifies that he meant "atlseal" in post 1197 where arim. is. Then accuses Cyan of being "argumentative" about it. Speculates on improbability of Cyan's role
Post 1202: Working through Cyan's explanation of his role, he thinks it is a bit ridiculous
Post 1205: Answers a balance question that he missed from Xyre, goes into more detail of why he finds Cyans role improbable
Post 1237: Asks for prod on Athos
Post 1280: Fabricates a possible neutral role PM for Cyan's claim. Mentions JC Superstar in Sin City
Post 1291: Talks about possibility to Cyan being a mafia reporter or being blocked (although I am pretty sure by this point Cyan had said he cant be blocked).
Post 1304: Responds to my post about -1 saying "I might add that i was going to vote him except for the -1 thing, since i didnt want to lynch him before the town agreed we should end the day." Sees slow wagons as a non-tell
Post 1309: Asking to hammer is a non-tell
Post 1352: Doesn't want anyone to assume machines are "behind this", pointing to arim. Still doesn't believe cyans claim
Post 1364: PBPA where the person examined comes out as town are still useful. Pseudo-unvotes Cyan, no idea of where to go next
Post 1410: Can't imagine atlseal or Hvir lying about their roles unless they are scum together (what about just 1?). Asks about Hvir's locations thing (which he had answered)
Post 1414: Clarifies 1410 as Axel brought up the unaccounted middle problem implicit in it. Would suspect the Cheshire cat more likely scum
Post 1449: Won't use flavor as a character judge when it comes to Alice + Terminator chars. Finds flavor arguments confusing. Finds Alice role to be somewhat impossible in its mechnaics. Votes Hvir (putting him at -1)
Post 1450: Unvotes due to simul-post
Post 1458: Asks mod for Athos to be replaced
Post 1462: Not in favor of ZDS partner coming out
Day 1 Ends
Post 1516: Reaction to atlseal "considering atl's reactions yesteday, i think it's quite likely he's scum trying to get the town to mislynch before he dies"
Post 1517: Votes atlseal because "We got his "investigation" , and its hardly believable. I think lynching him today (especially since he's a claimed 1 shot) is the right play."
Post 1525: Explains rationale for atlseal vote as: atlseal was more scummy D1 and I don't want to mislynch again, ignoring that he was claiming a cult (not scum) investigation
Post 1527: Response to my vaguely worded cult post
Post 1532: Agrees that a 1 for 1 is in the town's best interest if atl is lying scum. But still thinks that atlseal is the correct lynch.
Post 1533: Spam
Post 1593: Unvotes atl, says that it is possible that atl is still scum and wants to know if he has grinned yet? Would vote Kraj, but fears ending the day early. Tell Alx to keep quiet and is confused by ZDS and Vampyr
Post 1722: Disagrees with HE7 (while backhandedly calling him town) on cult-recruiting mafia. AGainst the smith avatar plan, and against vigging fade due to his recruitment. Says Kraj is the obvious play, and wants whoever gets a spoon to stay quiet
Day 2 Ends
Day 3
Post 1797: Doesn't understand chat about Vamp, FoS's Alx for unncessary info, thinks the spoon thing is weird as well and wants to hear from Xyre
Post 1818: Dismisses the 3 people voting for him, disagrees with Grak that a lot of things could have happened, asks DYH to change his avatar
Post 1835: More talk and conjecture about Xyre and his spoons
Post 1844: "Please do post this case. I'm getting tired of having you focus on me singlemindedly."
Post 1854: Long response to ZDS's case
Post 1856: Finishes response to ZDS's case
Post 1860: Response to ZDS's response
Post 1861: Clarification on 1860
Post 1880: More banter with ZDS
Post 1902: Reaction to Alx's unexplained vote on me. Thinks RafeK's theory of revolving scum possible, agrees with ZDS' assertion that PBPAs are hard to make objective
Post 1934: Accuses J-Effe IV of looking for a new target of opportunity with his FoS. Asks Alx where he is going and cautions agianst claim analysis
Analysis coming after a meeting!
loran has done some sketchy things, but I actually feel slightly better about him than I did before I started this exercise, not enough to unvote him yet, but enough to be open to hearing others' thoughts.
loran spends a considerable amount of time carving out the intellectual argument that being defensive != being scum. If I were cynical, I would say that is because he knows that he is by nature, defensive and doesn't want to be lynched.
He also has spent a lot of time rehashing his points of view and insisting that the pirate reference was a joke (in post 250).
He has a contradiction in what he is saying between posts 682 where he unvotes atlseal "due to recent developments" and then in 689 admitting that arimnaes' death had nothing to do with voting for atlseal. The interesting thing is that he doesn't re-vote but instead becomes more devoted to his player analysis project which he wishes to complete before voting.
A second contradiction is in post 731 where he said doesn't mind Day 1 "observers" but flips out about Athos vote and asks for prods and replacements throughout the day.
loran doesn't seem to be paying attention to votes (forgot he was voting for Xyre while defending him in the early game), missed pressure building on Cyan Day 1. He also asked for details on roles that were already provided by those players before he asked (Alice's locations thing springs to mind immediately)
Then in post 1187 he pseudo-votes Cyan while up until that point (Post 1101) loran found Cyan and worried about the wagon growing on him.
I really didn't like his comment on Hvir's claim in post 1410: "i cant imagine either atl or H-guy lying at this point unless they're BOTH scum, as atl claimed a alice-role first, and H-guy claimed the alice-role most likely to be in the game." Which is a textbook case of an unaccounted middle.
His behavior toward the Kraj wagon is also something that I find disturbing. In posts: 1516, 1517, 1525 he either ignores or doesn't read that it is a cult result and insists that atlseal is the correct play. The correct play is always to stamp out the cult first, although I actually agree with loran that finding the cult says nothing about atlseal's alignment. The mafia wants the cult dead as badly as the town does, but arguing to lynch a claimed JoAT before a cultist isn't a point in his favor as a vig could easily have saved a D3 lynch by taking out atlseal N2.
I have thread overload.
Does anyone else want to claim having this experience? Because it is bothering me.
Maybe, but Vamp hasn't suggested that.
I read DYH as saying he was happy to take whatever penalty he gets for not roleplaying previously, but now he isn't.
Re: AG's PBPA of loran:
1) Yay for long PBPAs which appear to demonstrate a lot of effort but actually just repeat what was said in each post. At least it didn't appear (too) slanted. Until I got to the end and saw "analysis coming" I was ready to vote for AG for this.
2) The analysis seems largely fair but doesn't establish enough. I do note that I find the prodding of replacement for Athos (replaced by KRAJ) to be a point in loran's favour. If he's mafia, he was making an effort to get a lurker into the game that he knew wasn't on his side.
The point about atl and Hvir being both town OR both scum looked bad at the time, but I don't see what it would accomplish with the hindsight that Hvir was town. You could say he was trying to use the likely Hvir lynch to also clear atlseal, I guess, but that's stretching to loran and atlseal being scum together, which I really doubt.
As I said at the time, I think the argument to lynch atlseal rather than Kraj was BAD, but I am not convinced it was a scum move as such.
Axelrod: You and Cyan are still not answering my question. Until you do, unvote, vote Axelrod.
Seriously. I said that I'm here to protect him as long as I can while he teaches people to fight against the machines. His role is 'Mentor'. You do you know a mentor is the same as a teacher, right? Right. Stop wasting everyone's time.
Would you like another go?
???
(Turns head right, then to the left. Slowly looks up at the broken glass of the shattered skylight into the blue, cloudless sky.)
(With reverent awe)
Who are you?
DYH, are you quite sure you don’t want to rethink the answers you gave in this post?
Are you the person who actually answered the questions ?
Or are you just the person who posted the answers to those questions?
Can you tell us how to make it stop?
Can you tell us how to get out of here?
If you can’t tell us, is there someone else who knows?
to save some time, Raf, can you point out the post in which Cyan posted both these positions?
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
The above is blatantly contradictory. Please don't play dumb. It's insulting. Or are you trying to tell me that the machines brought in John Connor to fight the machines?
And here I thought I was the one who was confused in this violent realm. No, this is not right at all. This effect just happened to me last night and as far as I know applies only to the current day.
Hawkeye appears to be even more confused than you, though. I don't understand at all what he's getting at with those bizarre questions.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
This is literally the last time I am going to explain this again. Especially since you're just randomly fishing through my posts to find what suits you, and ignoring where I already explained this exactly.
Connor was brought into the matrix by the machines to be the first one. His essence survived since then, and I was created to protect him while he teaches people to fight against the machines.
If I get modkilled for all of this, as is most likely what RafK is trying to accomplish, please lynch him.
For the record, Cyan you didn't explain the inconsistency before- you ignored it, and a second ago you even admitted you had been ignoring it. I don't get where asking you to explain yourself is fishing for a modkill. Axelrod directly fished for a modkill on DYH by asking if he was quoting from his PM- I didn't see you complaining then.
Your explanation of the inconsistency suffices, although the fact remains that your stated belief that anti-machine = anti-town still suggests very strongly to me that you are indeed a neutral of some kind. However, that also keeps you alive for the time being, since there's no sign at the moment that you're responsible for any kills.
Vamp, did you get that too?
I don't read Hawkeye as confused, just confusing.
Well, yes? You know, in Matrix Mythology, the Machines do create "The One" and "The One" does fight "against the machines." It's just that they are expecting it, and deem it necessary for the program to run correctly.
That is not, however, what is going on with me now. I am not "The One" anymore. What Cyan said more or less is what's going on with me now. My "spirit" (in a programming code sense) remains inside the Matrix.
I'd thought he was saying you had come in recently/now to fight the machines (reinforced by the fact that John Connor didn't seem to be around fighting the machines during the movie continuity!), which clashed with him saying that you were brought in as the first One.
The remaining matters set out in my post above still militate to a conclusion that Cyan at least is a non-town neutral (
The above post should finish:
The remaining matters set out in my post above still militate to a conclusion that Cyan at least is a non-town neutral (and maybe Axelrod, although I could see ways that Cyan can be a neutral- goal: Axelrod outlives all machines?- and Axelrod town).
Re: DYH's vote: you voted, you've yet to unvote, and whoever you've proxied your vote to (which I beleive you haven't) hasn't unvoted you either. the vote stands.
Vote-count thingy
1 Alx-Cyan, ZDS
2 Hawkeye7-DYH, Charm_Master
4 Loran16- Abbeygargoyle, grakthis, J-Effe IV, CP
1 AbbeyGargoyle - Alx2
1 ZDS - CP
1 Axelrod RafaelK
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