We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no roleplay aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Errr, DYH, did you change your avatar voluntarily? If so, can you change it back? Just for a bit so we can be sure?
@Grathkis, ZDS, and AG- I'm going to ignore you guys right now....the only one who's brought up reasoning against me today is AG, and if that's the evidence against me i don't really need to address it.
@Grak-According to Xyre's claim, Ax is either untargetable or scum since he accepted the spoon. I don't see what "lot of things" could've happened.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Should I let y'all know which characters are DYH and Vampyr attempting to represent? Because the info is quite out there in the open, and no need for me to keep it secret, right?
DYH seems to be representing Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies.
Vampyr seems to be representing the protagonist of Fight Club.
The above statements aren't role info, just based on what's in thread. Also, I can't guarantee whether they are the characters they are RPing as or not.
Should I let y'all know which characters are DYH and Vampyr attempting to represent? Because the info is quite out there in the open, and no need for me to keep it secret, right?
I'm very curious as to whom you think it is that I'm impersonating?
I also find it very interesting that just after one post that DYH is now lumped in on this. Maybe next you want to add player #19 to the mix since it seems to be a revolving door of people.
@Grak: I'm not sure if that last comment was specifically directed at me or at the town in general. Either way, I'll answer.
I'm just throwing stuff out there I've noticed. Is that a bad thing? Considering there was a hidden player in Az's previous game, I felt it was worth mentioning. Does it mean there are hidden players in this game? Not at all. But at least people are aware of it.
And all this was before DYH starts cultivating multiple personalities, much like he had in the above mentioned previous game that Az ran.
In the future, I'll make sure I don't say a whole lot, horde information and generally be a nuisance to the town. And we can see how far that gets me.
PPE: and Alx answers my question before I ask it. Interesting.
So who's my narrator? Who's imagination am I a figment in?
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I might not be sure of much around here, but I'm not a girl.
You're from the Terminator series. You hate machines. You're not John Connor. You act like you need to be committed to an asylum. Sarah Connor is the obvious answer. Yet apparently not the correct one. Interesting.
@Grathkis, ZDS, and AG- I'm going to ignore you guys right now....the only one who's brought up reasoning against me today is AG, and if that's the evidence against me i don't really need to address it.
I made my case against you on and off day 1 and 2. I don't know that I need to restate it at the moment, unless things stagnate.
Quote from Loran »
@Grak-According to Xyre's claim, Ax is either untargetable or scum since he accepted the spoon. I don't see what "lot of things" could've happened.
Wah? Did I misunderstand Xryre's ability? I need to go back and find it.
I'm very curious as to whom you think it is that I'm impersonating?
I also find it very interesting that just after one post that DYH is now lumped in on this. Maybe next you want to add player #19 to the mix since it seems to be a revolving door of people.
@Grak: I'm not sure if that last comment was specifically directed at me or at the town in general. Either way, I'll answer.
I'm just throwing stuff out there I've noticed. Is that a bad thing? Considering there was a hidden player in Az's previous game, I felt it was worth mentioning. Does it mean there are hidden players in this game? Not at all. But at least people are aware of it.
And all this was before DYH starts cultivating multiple personalities, much like he had in the above mentioned previous game that Az ran.
In the future, I'll make sure I don't say a whole lot, horde information and generally be a nuisance to the town. And we can see how far that gets me.
You misunderstand. I am not critiszing anyone's play, or even neccesarily the game. I am saying that it's not something I want to get into right now, till we have more info.
I think it's more productive for me to focus on players and not on abilities and puzzle solving. It's pretty obvious this game is full of convoluted abilities that are affected by things like our avatars, the replacement list, lots of day abilities, etc etc etc.
It's not a normal mafia game, but the thing that HASN'T changed is reading players.
I don't need anyone elses help doing that... except that you people keep posting about something. So by all means, keep discussing abilities and role scenarios.
You misunderstand. I am not critiszing anyone's play, or even neccesarily the game. I am saying that it's not something I want to get into right now, till we have more info.
I think it's more productive for me to focus on players and not on abilities and puzzle solving. It's pretty obvious this game is full of convoluted abilities that are affected by things like our avatars, the replacement list, lots of day abilities, etc etc etc.
It's not a normal mafia game, but the thing that HASN'T changed is reading players.
I don't need anyone elses help doing that... except that you people keep posting about something. So by all means, keep discussing abilities and role scenarios.
My apologies then. I guess I saw more acidity in your words than what there was.
@Alx: I believe I misspoke in my previous post. Either way, it doesn't change the fact I am in no way related to the movie Fight Club.
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I know what it's like to be in a hostage situation. I've been there myself. The fear...the adrenaline...you find yourself...imagining things. Impossible things, crazy things, insane things...takes years to get over it.
Kyle Reese is a tough disciplined warrior, not really in line with the panicked half-crazed persona DYH is trying to project. Anyway, since DYH said he doesn't really know the Terminator plotline, I'll give this option a maybe.
I've told you all everything I know. I didn't say I knew it was an untargetability, just that I guessed it. The only thing I know the spoon does is that it prevents alterations to a person's code... which I guessed meant that they were untargetable, but apparently not.
Like I said, Az didn't give me any clarification for this, so I had to guess.
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no roleplay aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Are you being forced to roleplay or it's an entirely voluntary action on your part?
The only thing I know the spoon does is that it prevents alterations to a person's code... which I guessed meant that they were untargetable, but apparently not.
Is it to prevent culting from the CL (Smith)? But that would be too specific an ability. >_>
My first instinct on Xyre is that he's backtracking now. More later.
Actually i disagree. Considering that Xyre's ability only gives some form of "untargetability" to townies, that would make sense for things like Smith or other agents.
I'm curious as to what would happen if used on one of sutherlands or his replacement...i suspect that person would remain in the game until lynch.
And Xyre did mention that Az "used a peculiar phrase" and wouldn't explain further.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Basically, I have 2 spoons (one of which I deployed last night). If the person I target accepts the spoon, and he or she is non-town, they take 2 more votes to lynch, but if that person is town, they untargetable (I think - Az used a peculiar phrase to describe the effect, one which I won't repeat for fear of modkill, and when I questioned him, he was evasive, but my impression is that it makes them untargetable). Because I believed Cyan and Ax's claim, Ax was the most obvious choice. However, I have no idea why Grak has it. Fortunately for me, there's no indication from my role that I need to be alive for the spoons to work, so even if I die tonight, I'll likely have deployed both spoons.
Quote from Xyre »
The only thing I know the spoon does is that it prevents alterations to a person's code... which I guessed meant that they were untargetable, but apparently not.
Maybe it means they're immune to the effects of Agent Smith?
Well, as suspect as that all is, it seems pretty unlikely that 'Spoon Boy' could be scum, and we know that Xyre did, in fact, leave a spoon for Axel..so it probably does something else.
Spoon wasn't right about that, he was right about my comforting photo. There isn't much to take solace in during these bleak times, but having my own voice is one.
If Xyre's not backtracking, then his ability is way less cool than what I first thought. We *can* check whether someone is scum by all voting for him but, no, just no.
More people should be focusing on Loran, he just claims scum with every post he writes.
(I actually have a case written on him, I just don't want to interrupt the current flow of discussion, since I do have interest in knowing what exactly is going on with Xyre)
Please do post this case. I'm getting tired of having you focus on me singlemindedly.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Grak, one thing you may or may not have noticed about the culture on this site is that many of the mods have been on a crusade to make every conceivable role as non-self-clearing as possible. Some mods and many players openly complain when their games are decided on the basis of one role or the other clearing people, and as a result, there is much higher frequency of roles that include loopholes and stuff that mean that the town can pretty much trust no one based on role-based revelations. Have you read Sin City Mafia? The whole point of an Az game is to make your mind blow up.
Anyway, I thought you were going on scum tells instead of on roleclaims. I think that's a fine idea, since we clearly can't rely on claims to clear people.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Grak, one thing you may or may not have noticed about the culture on this site is that many of the mods have been on a crusade to make every conceivable role as non-self-clearing as possible. Some mods and many players openly complain when their games are decided on the basis of one role or the other clearing people, and as a result, there is much higher frequency of roles that include loopholes and stuff that mean that the town can pretty much trust no one based on role-based revelations. Have you read Sin City Mafia? The whole point of an Az game is to make your mind blow up.
Anyway, I thought you were going on scum tells instead of on roleclaims. I think that's a fine idea, since we clearly can't rely on claims to clear people.
I *am* going on tells. I am basically pointing out WHY I don't trust all of these roleclaims.
Oh, yes, we're very likely to have a mafia recruiter in this game, where we already have a known cult, and right after a game in which it was conclusively demonstrated just how busted that role is.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
It's so nicely asked, I cannot refuse. (especially since the latest discussion topic is not that relevant anymore)
Case By Case Analysis of Loran16.
Before I begin, I want to let it be known that I will not comment on previous attacks against him, mine especially included, nor on Loran's defense of them. If you want to know my opinion about these, let's just say I have a tendency to agree with the accusations and a tendency to disagree with the defenses.
Also, in case someone asks, yes, I was convinced of Loran's scumness before I started writing this. I know it may seem strange to some, but I was not going to re-read the entirety of some random guy's post on a whim. Especially not if it means coming back every time with no conclusion to speak of, like a certain X-Wing…
Now, let's get started.
1) Against Xyre: He actually started it, with a post he will later say was only a warning. Indeed, #35 is a very clear warning, no one could ever misinterpret it as being an attack.
Then there are a bunch of post where Xyre is never mentioned, even though he did reply, with a quote !, to loran's att… I mean warning. Post number 64 stands out particularly, since it's a mid-long post full of quotes yet completely fails to acknowledge RafaelK's #59 just above.
What's wrong with 64? Sure i put the first vote on it in response to the fishing as a warning as i've stated....and i was in the middle of my argument with grathkis.
Post #72 is the first sign of acknowledgment of Xyre. Now we can see Loran is siding with Xyre, after conveniently waiting for Xyre to pull himself out on his own. How nice of him.
This first wagon is a shining example of someone only giving his opinions insofar as it can benefit him.
What are you talking about? I voted xyre for fishing, then get distracted by grakthis. When people start to actually make him the main focus, i gave my opinion (that xyre's defensiveness didn't make him scum really). It's not like i had attacked xyre throughout...all i'd done is vote him for fishing as a warning.
2) Against Xyre (bis): Votes Xyre for voting players who were voting for him. Xyre's votes were valid in both case but, since everyone know it is scummy to vote for someone who is voting for you, regardless of whether your vote is valid or not, there we've got a vote.
He partially backtracks in #185.
See my comment from above.
Or the real story....i wasnt paying too much attention to the thread, skimming it really, saw xyre seeming to vote people in retaliation twice, and voted him. After a review, as i've mentioned, i realized the vamp vote was pretty ******, and xyre's vote back was okay.
I mean, i know you acknowledged your bias before making this pbpa, but seriously....this is pretty slanted loaded stuff here....
3) Against Carrion Pigeons: Not being clear about a vote is an immediate vote-worthy offense, it seems. I would agree that it is not especially helpful but, from here to a vote, there's a river to cross. Add CP's multi-voting ability, and you soon follow the river to the sea.
Still, he manages to defend his position in #222, and afterwards. He'll never cease to amaze me.
We can all thank Court Mafia for making scums think they can get multi-voters lynched just by saying they might be scum.
I voted cp for seemingly putting a vote on hvir with no reasoning whatsoever. I fail to see the problem with this.
Oh and you seem to have learned the WRONG LESSON from court mafia. The point is that being a multivoter, ESPECIALLY in a specialty game, DOES NOT MAKE YOU CLEAR! (And as its turned out, that multivote disappeared the next day hmmm).
I thought CP's vote out of nowhere was justifiable for a vote, and him being a multivoter doesn't change that.
4) Against Arimnaes: Well, it's not really a "case", but it's still worth mentioning. He proves wrong the incorrect assumption that Arimnaes could not have been faking his PR. However, nothing serious was meant by it. It's good to know he never meant to say Arimnaes could very well be a scum faking a post restriction because, who knows, Arimnaes could have died sooner or later and be proven town. Oh wait, he did.
Anyway, we see once again how much attention Loran gives to his appearance.
I was joking. You'll notice from the start i explained it as such, despite me certainly being justified in making a similar comment in seriousness.
5) Against Grakthis: As I'm writing this case, I'm learning by the second. This second's lesson : not being nice and soft and polite and all when writing a PBPA, which means a case, which means a long post in general, is a vote-worthy offense. Who knows, if I start to follow Loran's lessons, I might become a good player before this game ends.
Seriously, I don't know what to do with this, except remark this vote is actually crappier than the one on CP.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST STUPIDEST POINT AGAINST ME! Grathkis made a pbpa. Sutherlands and xyre said it was slanted, which was ironic considering that was grath's point against hvir. Grathkis responds with:
Quote from Grathkis »
And second, I'm allowed to use loaded language, because I'm a townie. If I mislead you, it's because I have your best interests in mind. It's those dirty tricky scumses you have to watch out for. Trust nice master. Master wouldn't hurt smeagul.
and then
Quote from Grathkis »
Actually, it's flawless logic. Since, there is no uncertainty about my alignment for me, and there is uncertainty about everyone elses.
Oh, I don't expect YOU to believe me, but I don't need you to in order to make my point. All that matters is that given the premise that I am a townie, the conclusion maintins it's validity.
We can worry about proving the premise later.
This Was what meritted the vote...grath's bs comments that his pbpa was allowed to be slanted since grath was on the town side. At best it's craplogic, more likely at the time it seemed to be a puny defense of a pbpa against accusations that it was doing the same thing it was accusing Hvir about!
And you cant' say i was bandwagoning, as Xyre and sutherlands werent voting him....so what's your problem with this vote? Are you maintaining grath's comments are fine?
Incidentally, spoon votes him a few posts afterwards with similar logic. Seriously, read through from grath's pbpa to my vote. How on god's earth is this vote crappy???? My god....talk about letting pre-pbpa bias affecting your judgment.
6) Against me (Hi mom, look I'm on screen !): His reason for voting me have little to do with what he was expecting at first but hey, a wagon is a wagon, he doesn't want to miss a chance to be on one.
In your first post after the wagon starts, you start it out with a really random accusation at me. Seemed like deflection to me. Not to mention Axel's points weren't bad.
Incidentally, 287, the 2nd post you mention here, i dont get what you're suggesting. Axel's first post confusedme...i had thought that he was accusing sutherlands of faking his PR in it. I more or less missed his points about you (despite axel's vote). And in my next post after that, i explain 287's reaction, and mention my interest in ZDS' response. I don't see what's wrong with these 2 posts, or why you post them....
7) Against Sutherlands: Sutherlands idea was not the brightest of ideas. What is really interesting, though, is that he does not vote him, when he has proven his ability to vote for far less convincing reasons than the ones given in the linked post. Did he suddenly became careful ?
Or maybe it's because there wasn't a wagon worth naming on Sutherlands at the time. Maybe Loran is just shy.
Ah, now you go back to bandwagon accusations of me. Ignoring of course the grathkis vote was clearly not on a wagon, but then again in your analysis of that vote, you missed everything.
My vote on cp also wasnt a wagon (i think only xyre was voting him at the time). But you can ignore this as well, as it doesn't fit your theory.
8) Against atlseal: Actually takes the time to write down several decent reasons for being on the case. Noteworthy, since it is the first time it happens.
Until we know more about atlseal, consider this a non-point.
9) Against Fadeblue: It started in #539, but went completely unnoticed until he brought it up again in #728. Enjoy the "actually, don't mind me too much" reply to Fadeblue's answer. Because, well, Loran would never dare attack Fadeblue. Oh no, it's just that some aspects of Fadeblue's play bother him, nothing more.
He probably does not want to be involved in a fight he knows he won't win.
I love how this too doesn't fit your wagoning comments. and the "don't mind too much" is completely out of context. I said NORMALLY i don't mind taking a little more of an observer role day 1, and i quote "but this day 1 has been 728 posts long, almost as long as the 3 day long mushroom kingdom. Yes, its easy to get confused as to who's the best target, but it's kind of weird that in 728 posts, you haven't voted until someone asked you to. "
It's true i dont go any further after fade at this point, though i was paying attention to him. This is because if Fade's scum, i figure i'll have more to analyze later, and i am keeping an eye out on him.
More in response after dinner.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
The thing I dislike most about what Xyre is claiming, is that he apparently got an ambiguous role PM which did not make it clear what his ability did. Then Azrael was supposedly evasive about answering Xyre's questions about said ambigious role PM, then Xyre supposedly makes this assumption about what his ability does and feels confident enough about his assumptions to target me with this (supposedly) benificial ability.
When I claimed, Xyre's response was cryptic. "Hey, looks like your claim makes my role useful. Hope you like Ice Cream." or something to that effect. He's broadcasting to the entire player base that he's going to target me. Why do that? Then, the next morning, he again pipes up with the ambiguous "How did you like the Ice Cream" or something like that. Again with the broadcasting.
This is the kind of thing I can see a scum doing, to try and score townie points. By misrepresenting his ability, he can say if challenged (as he now has done) "Well, I was never sure what it really did."
I don't like that Azrael would give someone an ambiguous role and not tell them what it actually did (or in this case what it actually means). What's the point of that? My role is not confusing and ambiguous.
On the other hand, Hvir apparently had a completely useless role that did nothing (or it did something, but Hvir was unaware). But Hvir at least seemed to think he knew what it did.
I really don't know at this moment. I'm not really liking it. But if Xyre is to be believed, he was role-blocked last night by cake, which would lend credibility if true. The cake RBer (assuming he actually exists) cannot be town after targeting Grakthis and Xyre in succession.
Dagger: since you have revealed a targeting ability, can you reveal who you targeted on Night 1, or is there a reason in your mind not to?
DYH: I will not believe a thing you say or trust you to the slightest degree until you take off that Avatar. I don't care if it means you have to proxy your votes again. I can't believe you would think we wouldn't find it suspicious beginning the day like that. Are you claiming you can't take it off?
I think ZDS may be on a good track with Loran, it makes me feel better about him, but I haven't the time to really review all that right now.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Continued reply to ZDS. This'll likely be my last post in a bit.
10) Against LJustus: He mentions the possibility of LJustus being a Jester. Aside from that, it is pretty unclear what his stance on LJustus is. He neither opposes lynching LJustus nor votes for him. He only mentions him with ifs.
With LJustus now dead, I would guess Loran was simply delaying LJustus' demise until at least last night.
I never was perfectly sure on waht to do with LJ. I asked the question about his ability to know i if his claimed 2nd ablity that had to do with nightkills would apply to the day killer, because if it didnt, then the play was clearly an LJ lynch, though we'd have to decide who for it to inspect. When he clarified, i wasnt sure what to do with him.
As for the ifs you brought up...there seemed to be 2-3 times people mentioned the possiblity of lynchin LJ, so i mentioned that if we decide to do that, we should investigate xxx (i remember once saying atlseal....not sure if i mentioned another player. )
11) Against Cyan: Things get very interesting now. He starts by defending him with an argumentation full of wine, completely failing to mention whether he found Cyan to be scummy or not. Then, a while after, he pseudo-votes Cyan for claiming multiple lives, which, for some unspecified reason, makes his whole claim less believable. This second's lesson : weak balance speculation is not only a good argument to (pseudo-)vote someone, it is also a good enough argument to turn an entire player from "I'm opposed to his lynch though I'm not going to keep arguing and I'm going to do as if he didn't exist instead" to "OMGSCUMSCUMSCUM !".
But wait, it only gets funnier and funnier. He argues with Axelrod about how Cyancould be lying, never mind the fact one or two hundred posts earlier he was believing Cyan's claim.
All in all, this whole thing is a perfect example of a scum waiting for a seemingly valid reason to turn his jacket without it being too much noticed. It is also another case of appearance-saving (see 1) ).
lol. "Weak balence speculation?" I think i can find plenty of people who will agree that cyan's claim of Autobodyguard of a power role who happens to have 2 lives is a bit rediculous. The having 2 lives bit is TOTALLY a big difference from 1 life. I still believe there's some hitch in the role, though with axel having coming out i dont think there's any point in speculating what it is.
When it comes to evidence against someone, plays that person has made generally trumps claims, assuming the claim is not outrageous. And this claim was imo outrageous.
12) Against Hvirfilvindr : Goes to look at him after he is mentioned by Fadeblue. You know, the one who bothers him.
Then when Hvirfilvindr is mentioned again, and appears this time to be on the spotlight, it turns out he clearly did not look at him.
After the claim, he sat on the fence while waiting for an occasion to barn someone else's argument.
I like his "I'm not wetting my hands until I'm sure no one will somehow support Hvir's claim" style.
Axel and others had already mentioned hvir. it wasn't just fade, and besides, while i was suspicious of Fade, i didn't automatically assume him as scum. That's just a silly thing to do , which prevents you from seeing evidence that person presents in an objective light.
I don't get what you mean by "not look at him", in ref to that post, when i asked Hvir to clarify his claim, but to be honest, i didnt get the chance to do the full look through i wanted.
Anyhow , your post presenting me as fence sitting is me clarifying to pod that one of the two COULD be scum, but that i was saying that they were both unlikely to be lying about their role claims. Pod's point i responded to was "One of the two could easily be scum and the other town". Thus my response.
And yes i agreed with Axel's 1401 which you quoted, and it was probably the strongest reason why i eventually voted him. I don't see anything wrong there.....did you not agree with 1401?
Incidentally, i wasnt really online much from my 1414 to 1449, which is my vote on Hvir was late. Sadly, i can't prove this afaik.
13) Against Kraj : Starts by attackingatlseal because his investigation is "hardly believable" (why not ?) and he was scummy yesterday (so what ?). I honestly can't see the logic in that play ; I'd bet it was one of these moments scums do something random to throw the town off. He changes side once Kraj admits to be the Cult Leader, nothing to comment on that.
In any case, Loran is (or should) be a good enough player to at least know lynching the investigator before the investigated is never a good idea outside of LyLo. Perhaps his auto-pilot was broken.
Atlseal was the scummiest player on day 1, play wise. This is completely unquestionable to me. So when he comes out saying he's got a scum investigation on kraj, i expect kraj to deny it, us to lynch kraj, and us to find out atl managed to last till day 3 before we lynched him. And perhaps kraj might even have been a good role.
Obviously, atl has some real form of investigation, but this doesn't clear him. If he's mafia, outing the cult leader does what harm exactly? It keeps the mafia alive for ethe day assuming no sk kill and shuts down discussion early.
So no, i dont think my vote on atl was unreasonable.
Something of note is his stance on claiming and revealing informations : He is very careful. Too careful in fact. Everytime someone is asked for information and/or for a claim, Loran jumps in to turn off the tap, regardless of what was actually asked. He probably thinks he is getting townie points by showing his will to not let information flow. Ahem.
This is my playstyle. Check any game of recent note.... And it's a smart playstyle imo. The town shouldve lost clan contest for example, because townies blabbed more about their roles than they should've. The same can hold true in non newb games. Information can flow, that's fine, but unnecessary claiming is just plain stupid.
And that's it.
Weeeeee.
Time to do something else.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
We let one of THOSE in here? What is WRONG with you people? Haven't you seen what those things do!? Thinking there's no roleplay aspect, too. Go figure; damn thing doesn't have any feelings. Just kills everything in its way. Probably would shoot that Alx fellow, too, just for disagreeing with him if we weren't all here to see it. I think he's on to some things, too. Bastard machine.
Voluntary, yes. The reasoning should be obvious; I'll demonstrate after a vote count.
Oh... oh dear me. Look at all the bodies. Must there always be such senseless violence?
He already knows who I am - how could he forget? Might as well tell everyone.
yARGH!
I had a really good post all set to post just now until I hit preview and saw that you could change it back.
Personally, I think your real avatar looks much better. Question though, why did you wait to change your avatar till this AM?
Along the same lines, did CP ever demonstrate if he can still multi-vote?
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The total lack of consideration for whatever happened to Xyre, perhaps ?
RafaelK specifically mentionned your vote as an inspiration for his. Why not react to it ?
I wasn't really paying attention to it. No other reason.
Yes, yes. This Grak is such a bad fellow, distracting the poor you so easily.
Seriously, you should stop insulting your own intelligence.
Or you should stop insulting me. Read the thread, it's pretty clear that the me-grathkis dispute becomese my main focus around this time.
Yup, that was the clearest of warning. Ever. @the town : Who thought #35 was a warning ?
I can see how this can be misconcieved, but seriously, a vote saying "care to fish" is not a vote meant to start a wagon to lynch.
The point is that being a doc, ESPECIALLY in a specialty game, DOES NOT MAKE YOU CLEAR!
See, I can do it too.
It doesn't matter than multi-voters are not automaticly town. This early, there was no reason to believe CP's multi-vote to not be a sign of townieness.
You look at this far differently from me. Me, after court, i see a multivote as a nontell, and something to be ignored. You, you see it as a town tell until you see something otherwise.
You've said this many times already. I'm concerned about knowing why you spent so much focus clarifying it, when you yourself aknowledges the comment could have been serious.
Where you afraid of something ?
What on earth could i be afraid of? ??? I don't see where you're going with this.
I'm saying your vote is not.
Grak's "flawless logic" is not that flawless and not even pro-town. This I certainly agree with.
However, it is a HUGE stretch to find it pro-scum.
Think about it once more. If a player uses loaded or "scummy" language, he will attract attention to him. A town player doesn't care as much as a scum player does (there's no WIFOM here). Therefore, a town player can use loaded language much more freely than a scum player can.
Grakthis never said loaded language was a sign of townieness.
Honestly, this vote had no depth whatsoever.
THIS IS FALSE. A pbpa, no matter how valid will always draw votes to the target. There's always a bunch of players who won't read it much, and assume the conclusion is correct.
Loaded PBPAsa re the worst because the evidence to support the conclusion is pretty crappy. And yet people will still vote the target just because of the conclusion..its' the reason you see these thinggs used by scum so often.
A loaded pbpa is only good for the scum, as it more often than not will lead to a bogus-wagon on a player (who is unlikely to be scum more often than not).
Thus the reason for my vote. Read 301 for my explanation at the time to Grak.
Open your eyes, I've been attacking you for the entire game. There was nothing random about this accusation.
Attacking me the whole game? Yes. But this post in a post that should be about your defense is rather out of place and random.
301 and 287 have little to do together. You could remove 287 and still have 301 make perfect sense. This makes me think you were just looking for a reason, any reason, to vote me.
Or the truth....i was waiting for your response to axel....it wasn't satisfactory, and it contained a random accusation at me that made no sense (what does the joking matter?) in the start of it? At the time, it looked almost like a redirection attempt.
Way to not answer the accusation.
Why did you not vote Sutherlands, exactly ?
Way to ignore my answer since you don't like it. But sure, i didn't vote sutherlands because while it was a terrible crappy as hell plan, it looked to me like standard sutherlands play. Now granted, ive not seen suth as scum, so i cant compare his playstyles, but he generally makes stupid idiot comments/plans.
So i only gave him an FOS at the time, rather than a vote. Had he done something else scummy really to that point, i probably would've voted him.
Well, I'm accusing you of avoiding direct confrontations. Thanks for confirming you were/are avoiding direct confrontations :).
Errr wha? You mean my confrontations with Grak early on, Xyre early on, and here Fade? Fade made me suspicious (for well logiced reasons, which you fail to mention....despite mentioning that in the atl suspicions.). I asked fade to prove he could vote, then explained my suspicions. After he responded to me, there was no point in really getting in a shouting match with him....he was "observing the game" in a way i thought could be simply scum sitting on the fence. But there was nothing else to bring up, and that's NOT enough for a wagon, especially when it's subtle like fade (and unlike early game vampyr).
There was no point in going further. I confronted fade, he responded, and then i paid closer attention to it.
"If" is not enough commitment. That's my problem. I got the rest already.
If is all the commitment i was sure of. As i've said, i was never really sure what to do with LJ, and he HAD assured us he had some sort of ability that would trigger upon being night or day killed.
I wasn't opposed to lynching lj, but i was not a strong advocate of it. It was more like a "meh". Which is the way i get when i'm unsure of the course of action. My ifs were in case we decided to lynch him, what lj should use his investigation on.
Before there was an active wagon on Cyan, you had already mentionned suspicion of him.
You must have temporarily forgot that "plays generally trump non-outrageous claims" at this time.
You're correct, i was early on suspicious of cyan! (tends to be a natural reaction of mine j/k)
But as i looked back at his interaction with LJ, and you may call it wifom if you want, but my 974 is what i believed. His actions made no sense from a scum perspective.
Is the logic slightly wifom-y? probably. But i thought it sound, and such it changed my mind till his outrageous claim.
As long as I'm right.
You clearly did not look at him, because there was no mention of your opinion of him in that post, nor of anything related to whatever you could have read from him (besides his claim).
You got me here. Time prevented me from reading hvir's posts and doing a proper review. Not denying this.
Oh yes, I did. But why not mention Axelrod's name, rather than nearly copy-paste his post under your own name ?
If you hear reasoning you like in a mafia game as a reasoning fora v ote, you don't need to properly attribute the first person to post it when you use it as your own reasoning.......
I didn't copy/paste his post obviously, though to be sure i was saying the reasoning said by axel, and a bunch of others. I'm sorry i can't believe and be persuaded by the logic of others. My bad.
MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!
Or not.
This is the least realistic reasoning I've ever read.
No, wait, actually it's pretty realistic. "If I'm right about both of them, atlseal is lying scum and Kraj is a townie role". This is undefeatable logic.
If I'm right about you, you are scum. Try to defeat that :).
i disagree, but this is going nowhere. I'll repeat, i thought atl was most likely scum. I thought he'd come out with a bogus investigation. And when he did so, it was on a lurker we knew nothing about. If kraj denied bein the cult leader, i would've been sure atl was scum, 100%. And as a jack its not like had more than 1 shot at investigating anyhow. So worst case we lynch a jack with investigation used up. Best case, we got lying scum.
I still think atl is likely scum to tell the truth....a mafia cop role could easily out a cult leader. But that's besides the point.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWODP, The "this wont be complete part" was written before i came back from my run. So th epost is complete, though i originally meant to post it in 2 parts.
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
ZDS v loran is a lot to chew on. If not for ZDS being a mason and have the outline of a good case, I'd probably be inclined to take loran's side, as I find the PBPA to be annoyingly slanted and in several cases when I check the posts that ZDS links I can't work out what he's on about. As an example:
He links
Quote from loran »
O_O. Well, this is interesting. Incidentally, i cant imagine either atl or H-guy lying at this point unless they're BOTH scum, as atl claimed a alice-role first, and H-guy claimed the alice-role most likely to be in the game.
How they fit into this game, i got no idea...and h-guy's claimed abilities are so baffling....
H-guy, do you have a list of locations you can choose? Or is it just any you can think of from the book?
And says this shows that loran didn't look at Hvir when he said he was going to, a few hundred posts earlier and before Hvir claimed as far as I know. I don't get it. Maybe if ZDS explains himself- I presume he didn't say it just for the exercise.
There's also a few very stretched points, e.g. saying that he defended Kraj just as a random thing to throw people off. I kind of doubt that.
Dear ZDS: the point of a PBPA is not to trick the town into believing loran is scummier than he is, or to ad hom him (e.g. insult his intelligence in response to his claim that Grak distracted him for a little). The point is to show the town where he actually has been scummy, and you're making hard work of it for me in reading to extract the real points from the dung.
In the meantime: it probably isn't terrible to have cp demonstrate again so that the "Court Mafia" issue is put to bed for now (incidentally, another point on which I agree with loran over ZDS- the mafia multivoter wasn't lynched, so I don't see how it was a lesson the the mafia can get townie multivoters lynch!).
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I have a lot of rereading to do, since I was gone almost all of yesterday, but for now, a couple things:
1) When I was recruited, there was no mention of code alteration.
2) I only have a theory about CP's multivote. I can't say it's likely to be true, but it fits with what has happened so far. There very well could be plenty of other explanations.
CP: I'm not sure why you need my "support." There are plenty of people who are asking you to once again prove your multivote.
No, Axel, I clearly said I'd take it off after a vote count.
Proxy vote to atlseal
Yeah, well, sorry. It wasn't, in fact, all that clear.
Considering the Terminator himself and John Connor are walking around openly at this point, is there a reason for you to not come out with your own role-name, and a (brief) explanation of what you are doing here? Can this be done without tipping your hand as far as any ability which you may or may not possess (beyond the not being able to vote thing)?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
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Errr, DYH, did you change your avatar voluntarily? If so, can you change it back? Just for a bit so we can be sure?
@Grathkis, ZDS, and AG- I'm going to ignore you guys right now....the only one who's brought up reasoning against me today is AG, and if that's the evidence against me i don't really need to address it.
@Grak-According to Xyre's claim, Ax is either untargetable or scum since he accepted the spoon. I don't see what "lot of things" could've happened.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Oh... oh dear me. Look at all the bodies. Must there always be such senseless violence?
He already knows who I am - how could he forget? Might as well tell everyone.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Vampyr seems to be representing the protagonist of Fight Club.
The above statements aren't role info, just based on what's in thread. Also, I can't guarantee whether they are the characters they are RPing as or not.
I'm very curious as to whom you think it is that I'm impersonating?
I also find it very interesting that just after one post that DYH is now lumped in on this. Maybe next you want to add player #19 to the mix since it seems to be a revolving door of people.
@Grak: I'm not sure if that last comment was specifically directed at me or at the town in general. Either way, I'll answer.
I'm just throwing stuff out there I've noticed. Is that a bad thing? Considering there was a hidden player in Az's previous game, I felt it was worth mentioning. Does it mean there are hidden players in this game? Not at all. But at least people are aware of it.
And all this was before DYH starts cultivating multiple personalities, much like he had in the above mentioned previous game that Az ran.
In the future, I'll make sure I don't say a whole lot, horde information and generally be a nuisance to the town. And we can see how far that gets me.
PPE: and Alx answers my question before I ask it. Interesting.
So who's my narrator? Who's imagination am I a figment in?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You're from the Terminator series. You hate machines. You're not John Connor. You act like you need to be committed to an asylum. Sarah Connor is the obvious answer. Yet apparently not the correct one. Interesting.
I made my case against you on and off day 1 and 2. I don't know that I need to restate it at the moment, unless things stagnate.
Wah? Did I misunderstand Xryre's ability? I need to go back and find it.
You misunderstand. I am not critiszing anyone's play, or even neccesarily the game. I am saying that it's not something I want to get into right now, till we have more info.
I think it's more productive for me to focus on players and not on abilities and puzzle solving. It's pretty obvious this game is full of convoluted abilities that are affected by things like our avatars, the replacement list, lots of day abilities, etc etc etc.
It's not a normal mafia game, but the thing that HASN'T changed is reading players.
I don't need anyone elses help doing that... except that you people keep posting about something. So by all means, keep discussing abilities and role scenarios.
My apologies then. I guess I saw more acidity in your words than what there was.
@Alx: I believe I misspoke in my previous post. Either way, it doesn't change the fact I am in no way related to the movie Fight Club.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
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Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Kyle Reese
seems to me to be the other pro-town character DYH could be?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I've told you all everything I know. I didn't say I knew it was an untargetability, just that I guessed it. The only thing I know the spoon does is that it prevents alterations to a person's code... which I guessed meant that they were untargetable, but apparently not.
Like I said, Az didn't give me any clarification for this, so I had to guess.
I have no idea why Axelrod was targetable.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
DYH is probably using that avatar so that he can vote, by the way.
atlseal, what happened to you yesterday? If you'd prefer not to answer, ok. But since I assume you didn't cause it yourself, I'm a little curious.
My first instinct on Xyre is that he's backtracking now. More later.
Are you being forced to roleplay or it's an entirely voluntary action on your part?
EWP:
Is it to prevent culting from the CL (Smith)? But that would be too specific an ability. >_>
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Actually i disagree. Considering that Xyre's ability only gives some form of "untargetability" to townies, that would make sense for things like Smith or other agents.
I'm curious as to what would happen if used on one of sutherlands or his replacement...i suspect that person would remain in the game until lynch.
And Xyre did mention that Az "used a peculiar phrase" and wouldn't explain further.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
*DYH flashes the closest thing to a smile he can at spoon.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Maybe it means they're immune to the effects of Agent Smith?
If spoon's right and you're Kyle Reese, you've pretty much failed by now. Just sayin'.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I was afraid of getting modkilled. I paraphrased it the best I could in my last post - "alterations to their code".
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Actually, let's ask someone with intimate knowledge:
Fadeblue, when you were recruited by Smith, did the recruitment PM mention alterations in your code or something similar?
Please do post this case. I'm getting tired of having you focus on me singlemindedly.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Which self-confirming abilities do you doubt most Grak?
I don't yet. THat's part of the problem.
Anyone but Axelrod and I would still be on Cyan's ass. But Axelrod doesn't make that claim unless he's either a townie or has investigation immunity.
The spoon thing is confirmed as a real ability and Xyre doesn't strike me as the type to gambit with that ability as scum.
Our masons just keep looking stranger and stranger, but the cirumstances under which Vampyr claimed make NO SENSE for scum.
Our claimed JOAT gave us scum, so he clearly gets a free pass for now.
Either someone is lying to us (and the scum have convincing claim options) or else we are a really crappy town.
Anyway, I thought you were going on scum tells instead of on roleclaims. I think that's a fine idea, since we clearly can't rely on claims to clear people.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
1 Alx-Cyan
1 Hawkeye7-DYH
3 Loran16-ZDS, Abbeygargoyle, grakthis
1 Attempting to escape-Vampyr
14 Not Voting- Fadeblue, Axelrod, Pod, Rafaelk, Loran16, Carrion Pigeons,
Atlseal, Spoon, Xyre, J-Effe IV, Hawkeye7, Alx2, Dagger, Sutherlands
With 20 alive, it's 11 to lynch.
I *am* going on tells. I am basically pointing out WHY I don't trust all of these roleclaims.
As for Xyre's ability, it may prevent someone from being recruited (either by the mafia, or by the Cult).
loran is certainly worth a good bandwagon.
Vote loran.
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What's wrong with 64? Sure i put the first vote on it in response to the fishing as a warning as i've stated....and i was in the middle of my argument with grathkis.
What are you talking about? I voted xyre for fishing, then get distracted by grakthis. When people start to actually make him the main focus, i gave my opinion (that xyre's defensiveness didn't make him scum really). It's not like i had attacked xyre throughout...all i'd done is vote him for fishing as a warning.
Or the real story....i wasnt paying too much attention to the thread, skimming it really, saw xyre seeming to vote people in retaliation twice, and voted him. After a review, as i've mentioned, i realized the vamp vote was pretty ******, and xyre's vote back was okay.
I mean, i know you acknowledged your bias before making this pbpa, but seriously....this is pretty slanted loaded stuff here....
I voted cp for seemingly putting a vote on hvir with no reasoning whatsoever. I fail to see the problem with this.
Oh and you seem to have learned the WRONG LESSON from court mafia. The point is that being a multivoter, ESPECIALLY in a specialty game, DOES NOT MAKE YOU CLEAR! (And as its turned out, that multivote disappeared the next day hmmm).
I thought CP's vote out of nowhere was justifiable for a vote, and him being a multivoter doesn't change that.
I was joking. You'll notice from the start i explained it as such, despite me certainly being justified in making a similar comment in seriousness.
THIS IS THE BIGGEST STUPIDEST POINT AGAINST ME! Grathkis made a pbpa. Sutherlands and xyre said it was slanted, which was ironic considering that was grath's point against hvir. Grathkis responds with:
and then
This Was what meritted the vote...grath's bs comments that his pbpa was allowed to be slanted since grath was on the town side. At best it's craplogic, more likely at the time it seemed to be a puny defense of a pbpa against accusations that it was doing the same thing it was accusing Hvir about!
And you cant' say i was bandwagoning, as Xyre and sutherlands werent voting him....so what's your problem with this vote? Are you maintaining grath's comments are fine?
Incidentally, spoon votes him a few posts afterwards with similar logic. Seriously, read through from grath's pbpa to my vote. How on god's earth is this vote crappy???? My god....talk about letting pre-pbpa bias affecting your judgment.
In your first post after the wagon starts, you start it out with a really random accusation at me. Seemed like deflection to me. Not to mention Axel's points weren't bad.
Incidentally, 287, the 2nd post you mention here, i dont get what you're suggesting. Axel's first post confusedme...i had thought that he was accusing sutherlands of faking his PR in it. I more or less missed his points about you (despite axel's vote). And in my next post after that, i explain 287's reaction, and mention my interest in ZDS' response. I don't see what's wrong with these 2 posts, or why you post them....
Ah, now you go back to bandwagon accusations of me. Ignoring of course the grathkis vote was clearly not on a wagon, but then again in your analysis of that vote, you missed everything.
My vote on cp also wasnt a wagon (i think only xyre was voting him at the time). But you can ignore this as well, as it doesn't fit your theory.
I love how this too doesn't fit your wagoning comments. and the "don't mind too much" is completely out of context. I said NORMALLY i don't mind taking a little more of an observer role day 1, and i quote "but this day 1 has been 728 posts long, almost as long as the 3 day long mushroom kingdom. Yes, its easy to get confused as to who's the best target, but it's kind of weird that in 728 posts, you haven't voted until someone asked you to. "
It's true i dont go any further after fade at this point, though i was paying attention to him. This is because if Fade's scum, i figure i'll have more to analyze later, and i am keeping an eye out on him.
More in response after dinner.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
When I claimed, Xyre's response was cryptic. "Hey, looks like your claim makes my role useful. Hope you like Ice Cream." or something to that effect. He's broadcasting to the entire player base that he's going to target me. Why do that? Then, the next morning, he again pipes up with the ambiguous "How did you like the Ice Cream" or something like that. Again with the broadcasting.
This is the kind of thing I can see a scum doing, to try and score townie points. By misrepresenting his ability, he can say if challenged (as he now has done) "Well, I was never sure what it really did."
I don't like that Azrael would give someone an ambiguous role and not tell them what it actually did (or in this case what it actually means). What's the point of that? My role is not confusing and ambiguous.
On the other hand, Hvir apparently had a completely useless role that did nothing (or it did something, but Hvir was unaware). But Hvir at least seemed to think he knew what it did.
I really don't know at this moment. I'm not really liking it. But if Xyre is to be believed, he was role-blocked last night by cake, which would lend credibility if true. The cake RBer (assuming he actually exists) cannot be town after targeting Grakthis and Xyre in succession.
Dagger: since you have revealed a targeting ability, can you reveal who you targeted on Night 1, or is there a reason in your mind not to?
DYH: I will not believe a thing you say or trust you to the slightest degree until you take off that Avatar. I don't care if it means you have to proxy your votes again. I can't believe you would think we wouldn't find it suspicious beginning the day like that. Are you claiming you can't take it off?
I think ZDS may be on a good track with Loran, it makes me feel better about him, but I haven't the time to really review all that right now.
I never was perfectly sure on waht to do with LJ. I asked the question about his ability to know i if his claimed 2nd ablity that had to do with nightkills would apply to the day killer, because if it didnt, then the play was clearly an LJ lynch, though we'd have to decide who for it to inspect. When he clarified, i wasnt sure what to do with him.
As for the ifs you brought up...there seemed to be 2-3 times people mentioned the possiblity of lynchin LJ, so i mentioned that if we decide to do that, we should investigate xxx (i remember once saying atlseal....not sure if i mentioned another player. )
lol. "Weak balence speculation?" I think i can find plenty of people who will agree that cyan's claim of Autobodyguard of a power role who happens to have 2 lives is a bit rediculous. The having 2 lives bit is TOTALLY a big difference from 1 life. I still believe there's some hitch in the role, though with axel having coming out i dont think there's any point in speculating what it is.
When it comes to evidence against someone, plays that person has made generally trumps claims, assuming the claim is not outrageous. And this claim was imo outrageous.
Axel and others had already mentioned hvir. it wasn't just fade, and besides, while i was suspicious of Fade, i didn't automatically assume him as scum. That's just a silly thing to do , which prevents you from seeing evidence that person presents in an objective light.
I don't get what you mean by "not look at him", in ref to that post, when i asked Hvir to clarify his claim, but to be honest, i didnt get the chance to do the full look through i wanted.
Anyhow , your post presenting me as fence sitting is me clarifying to pod that one of the two COULD be scum, but that i was saying that they were both unlikely to be lying about their role claims. Pod's point i responded to was "One of the two could easily be scum and the other town". Thus my response.
And yes i agreed with Axel's 1401 which you quoted, and it was probably the strongest reason why i eventually voted him. I don't see anything wrong there.....did you not agree with 1401?
Incidentally, i wasnt really online much from my 1414 to 1449, which is my vote on Hvir was late. Sadly, i can't prove this afaik.
Atlseal was the scummiest player on day 1, play wise. This is completely unquestionable to me. So when he comes out saying he's got a scum investigation on kraj, i expect kraj to deny it, us to lynch kraj, and us to find out atl managed to last till day 3 before we lynched him. And perhaps kraj might even have been a good role.
Obviously, atl has some real form of investigation, but this doesn't clear him. If he's mafia, outing the cult leader does what harm exactly? It keeps the mafia alive for ethe day assuming no sk kill and shuts down discussion early.
So no, i dont think my vote on atl was unreasonable.
This is my playstyle. Check any game of recent note.... And it's a smart playstyle imo. The town shouldve lost clan contest for example, because townies blabbed more about their roles than they should've. The same can hold true in non newb games. Information can flow, that's fine, but unnecessary claiming is just plain stupid.
And that's it.
Weeeeee.
Time to do something else.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Proxy vote to atlseal
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
You're crazy, you know that?
yARGH!
I had a really good post all set to post just now until I hit preview and saw that you could change it back.
Personally, I think your real avatar looks much better. Question though, why did you wait to change your avatar till this AM?
Along the same lines, did CP ever demonstrate if he can still multi-vote?
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Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
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I wasn't really paying attention to it. No other reason.
Or you should stop insulting me. Read the thread, it's pretty clear that the me-grathkis dispute becomese my main focus around this time.
I can see how this can be misconcieved, but seriously, a vote saying "care to fish" is not a vote meant to start a wagon to lynch.
You look at this far differently from me. Me, after court, i see a multivote as a nontell, and something to be ignored. You, you see it as a town tell until you see something otherwise.
What on earth could i be afraid of? ??? I don't see where you're going with this.
THIS IS FALSE. A pbpa, no matter how valid will always draw votes to the target. There's always a bunch of players who won't read it much, and assume the conclusion is correct.
Loaded PBPAsa re the worst because the evidence to support the conclusion is pretty crappy. And yet people will still vote the target just because of the conclusion..its' the reason you see these thinggs used by scum so often.
A loaded pbpa is only good for the scum, as it more often than not will lead to a bogus-wagon on a player (who is unlikely to be scum more often than not).
Thus the reason for my vote. Read 301 for my explanation at the time to Grak.
Attacking me the whole game? Yes. But this post in a post that should be about your defense is rather out of place and random.
Or the truth....i was waiting for your response to axel....it wasn't satisfactory, and it contained a random accusation at me that made no sense (what does the joking matter?) in the start of it? At the time, it looked almost like a redirection attempt.
Way to ignore my answer since you don't like it. But sure, i didn't vote sutherlands because while it was a terrible crappy as hell plan, it looked to me like standard sutherlands play. Now granted, ive not seen suth as scum, so i cant compare his playstyles, but he generally makes stupid idiot comments/plans.
So i only gave him an FOS at the time, rather than a vote. Had he done something else scummy really to that point, i probably would've voted him.
Errr wha? You mean my confrontations with Grak early on, Xyre early on, and here Fade? Fade made me suspicious (for well logiced reasons, which you fail to mention....despite mentioning that in the atl suspicions.). I asked fade to prove he could vote, then explained my suspicions. After he responded to me, there was no point in really getting in a shouting match with him....he was "observing the game" in a way i thought could be simply scum sitting on the fence. But there was nothing else to bring up, and that's NOT enough for a wagon, especially when it's subtle like fade (and unlike early game vampyr).
There was no point in going further. I confronted fade, he responded, and then i paid closer attention to it.
If is all the commitment i was sure of. As i've said, i was never really sure what to do with LJ, and he HAD assured us he had some sort of ability that would trigger upon being night or day killed.
I wasn't opposed to lynching lj, but i was not a strong advocate of it. It was more like a "meh". Which is the way i get when i'm unsure of the course of action. My ifs were in case we decided to lynch him, what lj should use his investigation on.
You're correct, i was early on suspicious of cyan! (tends to be a natural reaction of mine j/k)
But as i looked back at his interaction with LJ, and you may call it wifom if you want, but my 974 is what i believed. His actions made no sense from a scum perspective.
Is the logic slightly wifom-y? probably. But i thought it sound, and such it changed my mind till his outrageous claim.
You got me here. Time prevented me from reading hvir's posts and doing a proper review. Not denying this.
If you hear reasoning you like in a mafia game as a reasoning fora v ote, you don't need to properly attribute the first person to post it when you use it as your own reasoning.......
I didn't copy/paste his post obviously, though to be sure i was saying the reasoning said by axel, and a bunch of others. I'm sorry i can't believe and be persuaded by the logic of others. My bad.
i disagree, but this is going nowhere. I'll repeat, i thought atl was most likely scum. I thought he'd come out with a bogus investigation. And when he did so, it was on a lurker we knew nothing about. If kraj denied bein the cult leader, i would've been sure atl was scum, 100%. And as a jack its not like had more than 1 shot at investigating anyhow. So worst case we lynch a jack with investigation used up. Best case, we got lying scum.
I still think atl is likely scum to tell the truth....a mafia cop role could easily out a cult leader. But that's besides the point.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
He links
And says this shows that loran didn't look at Hvir when he said he was going to, a few hundred posts earlier and before Hvir claimed as far as I know. I don't get it. Maybe if ZDS explains himself- I presume he didn't say it just for the exercise.
There's also a few very stretched points, e.g. saying that he defended Kraj just as a random thing to throw people off. I kind of doubt that.
Dear ZDS: the point of a PBPA is not to trick the town into believing loran is scummier than he is, or to ad hom him (e.g. insult his intelligence in response to his claim that Grak distracted him for a little). The point is to show the town where he actually has been scummy, and you're making hard work of it for me in reading to extract the real points from the dung.
In the meantime: it probably isn't terrible to have cp demonstrate again so that the "Court Mafia" issue is put to bed for now (incidentally, another point on which I agree with loran over ZDS- the mafia multivoter wasn't lynched, so I don't see how it was a lesson the the mafia can get townie multivoters lynch!).
I targeted Cyan on Night 1. He, as you did, should be able to confirm this fact. *flashes a brilliant smile at Cyan and waves*
@CP: I would be interested as well to see if you can still multivote.
BTW, I will note here that Special Rule 6 has been revealed.
I suppose we can't abuse it somehow?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
1) When I was recruited, there was no mention of code alteration.
2) I only have a theory about CP's multivote. I can't say it's likely to be true, but it fits with what has happened so far. There very well could be plenty of other explanations.
CP: I'm not sure why you need my "support." There are plenty of people who are asking you to once again prove your multivote.
Yeah, well, sorry. It wasn't, in fact, all that clear.
Considering the Terminator himself and John Connor are walking around openly at this point, is there a reason for you to not come out with your own role-name, and a (brief) explanation of what you are doing here? Can this be done without tipping your hand as far as any ability which you may or may not possess (beyond the not being able to vote thing)?
I mean support in a rather more literal sense, actually. I don't really care if you actually want me to multivote or not.
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