Yeah, I actually have to admit that I didn't consider arimnaes as actual Mafia until the endgame, where the numbers basically dictated that he had to be the third scum, and he started trying too hard to look as if he didn't care who was lynched. Given the rest of the roles, another neutral just seemed so plausible.
Players tend to let Raf and DYH get away with too much when they're scum. I wish people left *me* alone like that. You two need to let me in on your secret.
People that are largely considered 'good players' always get away with alot when they're scum. You're no exception, FB, except that you're not scum very often. Good players get away with alot because they can commit minor scum tells for the entirety of a game, but no one notices because of the mindset that a good player wouldn't give that tell. And if you try to call them on it, invariably someone town will say 'they're too good of a player to make that play if they're actually scum'. Then a whole round of WIFOM ensues, and nothing gets accomplished. With players that are experienced at being scum, you have to hope that their scumminess becomes obvious by A)an investigation, B)process of elimination, C)a major tell or D)them dying. Trying to pin them down with minor tells is usless. Part of this is also due to the status quo of mafia. How often do you see someone(other than Axelrod or CC, whom are in the same 'league' anyway) try and out-talk Azrael? It almost never happens, because A)it's intimidating to do so and B)the idea that someone that you know is better than you is scum is daunting.
I think I'm upwards of 60 or 70 percent here on MTGS. I'll go back and calculate it sometime.
Being scum that much has taught be some valuable lessons both as a bad guy and what to look for as a townie. I still feel my play as the latter has a lot of work to do, but I feel like it's improving.
EDIT: Cyan is right, though. "Name" players tend to get a lot more leeway because it's harder to bring a case on them due to experience, and it's often intimidating to go to war with some of the bigger guns. I also find that posting a lot makes people want to PBPA me less in CC's absence.
EDIT2: Also, I was very impressed with Arimnaes' play, as well. He set up his false claim well in advance and did a lot of good work. I'd actually give him the Mafia MVP. I was fortunate enough to have a townish role early game, and RafK did have the GF aspect working in his favor. Poor Axelrod was just too helpful, letting Fayul know where he was going to be.
Oh, I know he's right, but that's exactly the problem. We have too many players here who don't take initiative, and won't even lead a case against a "non-name" player. Which is why I feel like this game ended once the Mafia killed off all the players who do lead cases and are willing to go up against the "name" players. This also ties into the problem of players relying on abilities/claims rather than analysis.
Oh, I know he's right, but that's exactly the problem. We have too many players here who don't take initiative, and won't even lead a case against a "non-name" player. Which is why I feel like this game ended once the Mafia killed off all the players who do lead cases and are willing to go up against the "name" players. This also ties into the problem of players relying on abilities/claims rather than analysis.
Total agreement. I was trying to be PC about it earlier, I guess, but once you and CP were dead, I felt confident I could out-argue anyone remaining.
Too much claim analysis, not enough behavioral analysis has been a downfall of many games lately from a town perspective.
and RafK did have the GF aspect working in his favor.
One day the cop will actually inspect me when I'm godfather and the ability will actually matter
I think it was a good team effort from the mafia overall. None of the survivors were really suspected at all (arim a little bit, but I think we did a good job of backing that claim; it didn't sell itself, you know), and we controlled the town's processes more or less completely (with the exception of Fayul's excursion into independent thinking by inspecting Axelrod!). Hell, they all knew I was scum and we controlled the town so well that none of them voted for me!
Total agreement. I was trying to be PC about it earlier, I guess, but once you and CP were dead, I felt confident I could out-argue anyone remaining.
The biggest sign of this was that on the last day, when arim and I hinted at some of the biggest gaping holes in your arguments (ie. the obvious set-up against bertrand, the overcomplicated vote-stealing interaction that would be required, the way it was so conveeeenient that you only had the multivote on day 1 and were still claiming to be cleared by it) and absolutely no-one would buy it even though it was all 100% correct
(with the exception of Fayul's excursion into independent thinking by inspecting Axelrod!).
It wasn't that independent. He was the only one to definitively announce his location in the thread, therefore, I figured "mise well do someone thatn i'm guaranteed to hit..."
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Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Oh, I know he's right, but that's exactly the problem. We have too many players here who don't take initiative, and won't even lead a case against a "non-name" player. Which is why I feel like this game ended once the Mafia killed off all the players who do lead cases and are willing to go up against the "name" players. This also ties into the problem of players relying on abilities/claims rather than analysis.
I tried to out-argue RafK recently... it was an awful lot of work. Twenty posts later, I got lynched anyway.
For the record, I tallied up my games here on MTGS, and here's the verdict:
Games Finished (including God Mafia): 13
Times Scum: 8*
Scum rate: 61.54%
* this does not include the role in HS mafia which could win with either the town or the scum, but does include DA mafia where I started as town and converted to scum upon being lynched since I ended that game as scum.
I wondered about doing one of those "this is my mafia record" sigs. But for it to be truly accurate I'd have to include games played under other accounts.:sneaky:
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I wondered about doing one of those "this is my mafia record" sigs. But for it to be truly accurate I'd have to include games played under other accounts.:sneaky:
Because you're going to play as a certain player from my first game here again? I thought that guy would stay under forever.
You know who i mean...
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Unfortunately, Townie joined a few months before you as a dupe in the original blind game on this site. It isn't impossible that whoever Townie was is still on the site, though I don't think that they ever said who they were. Sorry.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Players tend to let Raf and DYH get away with too much when they're scum. I wish people left *me* alone like that. You two need to let me in on your secret.
Are you nuts? I think I was scum in 9 of my first 10 games...
I double-checked, looks like it was only 7 or 8... and now, I think I'm still batting over .500...
Being scum that much has taught be some valuable lessons both as a bad guy and what to look for as a townie. I still feel my play as the latter has a lot of work to do, but I feel like it's improving.
EDIT: Cyan is right, though. "Name" players tend to get a lot more leeway because it's harder to bring a case on them due to experience, and it's often intimidating to go to war with some of the bigger guns. I also find that posting a lot makes people want to PBPA me less in CC's absence.
EDIT2: Also, I was very impressed with Arimnaes' play, as well. He set up his false claim well in advance and did a lot of good work. I'd actually give him the Mafia MVP. I was fortunate enough to have a townish role early game, and RafK did have the GF aspect working in his favor. Poor Axelrod was just too helpful, letting Fayul know where he was going to be.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Total agreement. I was trying to be PC about it earlier, I guess, but once you and CP were dead, I felt confident I could out-argue anyone remaining.
Too much claim analysis, not enough behavioral analysis has been a downfall of many games lately from a town perspective.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
One day the cop will actually inspect me when I'm godfather and the ability will actually matter
I think it was a good team effort from the mafia overall. None of the survivors were really suspected at all (arim a little bit, but I think we did a good job of backing that claim; it didn't sell itself, you know), and we controlled the town's processes more or less completely (with the exception of Fayul's excursion into independent thinking by inspecting Axelrod!). Hell, they all knew I was scum and we controlled the town so well that none of them voted for me!
The biggest sign of this was that on the last day, when arim and I hinted at some of the biggest gaping holes in your arguments (ie. the obvious set-up against bertrand, the overcomplicated vote-stealing interaction that would be required, the way it was so conveeeenient that you only had the multivote on day 1 and were still claiming to be cleared by it) and absolutely no-one would buy it even though it was all 100% correct
It wasn't that independent. He was the only one to definitively announce his location in the thread, therefore, I figured "mise well do someone thatn i'm guaranteed to hit..."
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
He's way dodgy, that one.
Certainly the argument wasn't perfect, but it accomplished what was needed at the time.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Games Finished (including God Mafia): 13
Times Scum: 8*
Scum rate: 61.54%
* this does not include the role in HS mafia which could win with either the town or the scum, but does include DA mafia where I started as town and converted to scum upon being lynched since I ended that game as scum.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Might be time for a new account...
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
How about Unvote_Vote_DYH?
_______________________________
[L1 Judge|Add me to your ignore list]
|Molten Sentry count - 1002 (34*)|
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Because you're going to play as a certain player from my first game here again? I thought that guy would stay under forever.
You know who i mean...
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Unfortunately, Townie joined a few months before you as a dupe in the original blind game on this site. It isn't impossible that whoever Townie was is still on the site, though I don't think that they ever said who they were. Sorry.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
Loran, are you implying that Holmes was Axelrod?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Also, I resent that.
I have to start playing with more initiative, but it's hard to think of clever things to say all the time.
By kingcobweb and Goblinboy.
Official Elitist of [thread=40859][RBS][/thread]